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Mister D
01-27-2012, 09:14 AM
While uncovering an impressive destruction level dating to the second half of the ninth century B.C.E., when Gath was the largest of the five cities of the Philistines and perhaps the largest city in the Land of Israel during the Iron Age, excavators found an exceptionally well preserved horned altar reminiscent of the Israelite horned altars described in the Bible (Exodus 27:1–2; 1 Kings 1:50).


Snip

But why does this altar have only two horns, when we know from the Bible and excavated examples that the altars of both the Israelites and, later, the Philistines, typically had four horns?** (http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/artifacts-and-the-bible/where-did-the-philistines-come-from/#note02)
The fact that the Tell es-Safi/Gath horned altar has only two horns may have to do with the cultural origins of the Philistines. As Louise Hitchcock, senior staff member of the Tell es-Safi/Gath excavations, has suggested, the very motif of the horned altar in the Levant may have been influenced by earlier Minoan “horns of consecration,” symbolic representations of the horns of the sacred bull in Minoan culture. In fact, there is an altar from the Late Bronze Age site of Myrtous Pigadhes in Cyprus that also has only two horns. The unique horned altar from Tell es-Safi/Gath, the earliest stone altar ever found from the land of the Philistines, may be another indication of the Aegean influences on early Philistine culture and quite possibly a hint to their origins.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/artifacts-and-the-bible/where-did-the-philistines-come-from/?mqsc=E3035155

MMC
01-27-2012, 12:08 PM
So whats your take D?

MMC
01-27-2012, 02:18 PM
The Hebrew text of Genesis 10:14, with regard to the descendants of Mizraim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Mizraim), reads "we'et Petrusim we'et Kesluhim 'esher yats'u misham Filistim we'et Keftorim." Literally, it says that those whom Mizraim begat included "the Pathrusim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Pathrusim), Casluhim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Casluhim) (out of whom came the Philistines), and the Caphtorim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Caphtorim)". There is some debate among interpreters as to whether this verse was originally intended to signify that the Philistines themselves were the offspring of the Casluhim or the Caphtorim. :wink:

The Rhetorical Stela are less discussed, but are noteworthy in that they mention the Peleset together with a people called the Teresh, who sailed "in the midst of the sea". The Teresh are thought to have originated from the Anatolian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Anatolia) coast and their association with the Peleshet in this inscription is seen as providing some information on the possible origin and identity of the Philistines.

MMC
01-27-2012, 03:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvnDlBX1-3k

They know they were assimilated.....kinda like the Normans were with England.

Conley
01-27-2012, 03:13 PM
D must be having a busy day at work?

Mister D
01-27-2012, 04:42 PM
I had a half day because I wanted to see my grandmother. The docs say it could happen at any time and I haven't seen her or my aunts for that matter in a long while. Anyway. Murphy's Law. Everything that could have wrong this morning apparently did. Website issues, questions I didn't have time for etc. I'm in a weird mood. I'm going for a drink and a perc soon.

Mister D
01-27-2012, 04:43 PM
Regarding the Philistins, I'be been intrigued by the Mediterranean hypothesis ever since I heard it. They may not have been a Semitic people.

Conley
01-27-2012, 04:44 PM
I had a half day because I wanted to see my grandmother. The docs say it could happen at any time and I haven't seen her or my aunts for that matter in a long while. Anyway. Murphy's Law. Everything that could have wrong this morning apparently did. Website issues, questions I didn't have time for etc. I'm in a weird mood. I'm going for a drink and a perc soon.

Sorry about your grandma D, I had no idea. Sounds like a rough day. :sad:

Mister D
01-27-2012, 04:45 PM
Sorry about your grandma D, I had no idea. Sounds like a rough day. :sad:

She seemed fine when I was there but my aunt and cousin told me she is off and on. She's delusional and has trouble breathing sometimes.

Conley
01-27-2012, 04:59 PM
She seemed fine when I was there but my aunt and cousin told me she is off and on. She's delusional and has trouble breathing sometimes.

Well I'm glad she was lucid and breathing well when you got together, we've got to enjoy each day as it comes.

Mister D
01-27-2012, 05:08 PM
Well I'm glad she was lucid and breathing well when you got together, we've got to enjoy each day as it comes.

She seemed reasonably lucid. She spoke some Italian and seemed to be OK. A lot better than I expected anyway. I'm happy she's at her daughter's house and not some shitty nursing home. When it comes it comes but she'll be comfortable and with family.

Mister D
01-27-2012, 05:08 PM
Back to the Philistines.

MMC
01-27-2012, 05:14 PM
I know how one of those days feel like. Been there myself in the same situation with my Grams before she passed. So I know how ya feel D. Sometimes one just wants to be off into their thoughts. look for ya when ya gets back.

MMC
01-27-2012, 05:58 PM
One of the greatest divides between orthodox archaeology/ancient history and followers of the Biblical account can be found in the way the history of the Philistines is described. We can do no better than quote from the Anchor Bible Dictionary to show what difficulties are faced by followers of the conventional chronology.


" The Philistines (Egyptian P-r-s-t-w; Hebrew pelistim), whose country of origin is still unknown , must have come to Canaan through the Aegean basin, destroying the Mycenean and Minoan civilizations. They came partly overland via Anatolia, destroying the Hittite empire, Ugarit and Amurru and partly by ship via Crete (Caphtor of the Bible, c.f. Amos 9:7 and Jer. 47:4; Keftiu of the Egyptians) and Cyprus (Ships from the quarter of Kittim," i.e. Cyprus [Num 24:24] probably alludes to the first waves of the Sea Peoples). They were allied with the other Sea Peoples and their ultimate goal was to settle in Egypt. In about 1190, Ramesses III clashed with them and defeated them. Ramesses settled the conquered Philistines, mostly as Egyptian mercenaries, in the coastal towns, Gaza, Ashkelon and Ashdod (cf. Deut 2:23 where "Caphtorim" refers to the Philistines), The connection between Egypt and Caphtorim is reflected in Gen: 10: 13-14 (cf. Spicer, Genesis AB). The term "The Negeb of the Cherethites" (1 Sam 30:14) may reflect Philistine occupation of that part of the Negeb (for the identification of the Cherethites as Philistines cf. Ezek 25:16).

http://www.biblemysteries.com/lectures/philistines.htm

Mister D
01-27-2012, 07:58 PM
Yeah, if they were a part of the Sea Peoples they were probably of European extraction. Fascinating stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age_collapse

MMC
01-28-2012, 01:05 AM
I agree with ya D.....I to find it quite interesting.

Mister D
01-28-2012, 10:02 AM
I'd like to get a book on this "Dark Age". I think I'll search Amazon some point. I have some reward points on my credit card. It's interesting because the sources dry up and when they reappear the Israelites are in the Levant, the Httite's are gone, Egypt shrank, along with other major changes.

MMC
01-28-2012, 12:41 PM
There is some distinction between them(Philistines) with Reigns of Ramses III and Ramses VIIIth. Plus aren't the Philistines the Only ones to ever capture the Ark and take it from the Brews?

Mister D
01-28-2012, 12:42 PM
There is some distinction between them(Philistines) with Reigns of Ramses III and Ramses VIIIth. Plus aren't the Philistines the Only ones to ever capture the Ark and take it from the Brews?

Yes, that's in The Book of Judges I think.

shaarona
10-29-2013, 11:15 AM
While uncovering an impressive destruction level dating to the second half of the ninth century B.C.E., when Gath was the largest of the five cities of the Philistines and perhaps the largest city in the Land of Israel during the Iron Age, excavators found an exceptionally well preserved horned altar reminiscent of the Israelite horned altars described in the Bible (Exodus 27:1–2; 1 Kings 1:50).


Snip

But why does this altar have only two horns, when we know from the Bible and excavated examples that the altars of both the Israelites and, later, the Philistines, typically had four horns?** (http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/artifacts-and-the-bible/where-did-the-philistines-come-from/#note02)
The fact that the Tell es-Safi/Gath horned altar has only two horns may have to do with the cultural origins of the Philistines. As Louise Hitchcock, senior staff member of the Tell es-Safi/Gath excavations, has suggested, the very motif of the horned altar in the Levant may have been influenced by earlier Minoan “horns of consecration,” symbolic representations of the horns of the sacred bull in Minoan culture. In fact, there is an altar from the Late Bronze Age site of Myrtous Pigadhes in Cyprus that also has only two horns. The unique horned altar from Tell es-Safi/Gath, the earliest stone altar ever found from the land of the Philistines, may be another indication of the Aegean influences on early Philistine culture and quite possibly a hint to their origins.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/artifacts-and-the-bible/where-did-the-philistines-come-from/?mqsc=E3035155


http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/neareast/bronzemap.jpg

The Sage of Main Street
11-15-2013, 03:20 PM
The Hebrew text of Genesis 10:14, with regard to the descendants of Mizraim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Mizraim), reads "we'et Petrusim we'et Kesluhim 'esher yats'u misham Filistim we'et Keftorim." Literally, it says that those whom Mizraim begat included "the Pathrusim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Pathrusim), Casluhim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Casluhim) (out of whom came the Philistines), and the Caphtorim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Caphtorim)". There is some debate among interpreters as to whether this verse was originally intended to signify that the Philistines themselves were the offspring of the Casluhim or the Caphtorim. :wink:

The Rhetorical Stela are less discussed, but are noteworthy in that they mention the Peleset together with a people called the Teresh, who sailed "in the midst of the sea". The Teresh are thought to have originated from the Anatolian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Anatolia) coast and their association with the Peleshet in this inscription is seen as providing some information on the possible origin and identity of the Philistines.

Since T interchanges with D, Teresh could be Dorians.

The Sage of Main Street
11-15-2013, 03:23 PM
Regarding the Philistins, I'be been intrigued by the Mediterranean hypothesis ever since I heard it. They may not have been a Semitic people.

The Jews might not be Semitic either. They could have adopted the Semitic language, much as the Goths adopted Latin.

The Sage of Main Street
11-15-2013, 03:26 PM
One of the greatest divides between orthodox archaeology/ancient history and followers of the Biblical account can be found in the way the history of the Philistines is described. We can do no better than quote from the Anchor Bible Dictionary to show what difficulties are faced by followers of the conventional chronology.


" The Philistines (Egyptian P-r-s-t-w; Hebrew pelistim), whose country of origin is still unknown , must have come to Canaan through the Aegean basin, destroying the Mycenean and Minoan civilizations. They came partly overland via Anatolia, destroying the Hittite empire, Ugarit and Amurru and partly by ship via Crete (Caphtor of the Bible, c.f. Amos 9:7 and Jer. 47:4; Keftiu of the Egyptians) and Cyprus (Ships from the quarter of Kittim," i.e. Cyprus [Num 24:24] probably alludes to the first waves of the Sea Peoples). They were allied with the other Sea Peoples and their ultimate goal was to settle in Egypt. In about 1190, Ramesses III clashed with them and defeated them. Ramesses settled the conquered Philistines, mostly as Egyptian mercenaries, in the coastal towns, Gaza, Ashkelon and Ashdod (cf. Deut 2:23 where "Caphtorim" refers to the Philistines), The connection between Egypt and Caphtorim is reflected in Gen: 10: 13-14 (cf. Spicer, Genesis AB). The term "The Negeb of the Cherethites" (1 Sam 30:14) may reflect Philistine occupation of that part of the Negeb (for the identification of the Cherethites as Philistines cf. Ezek 25:16).

http://www.biblemysteries.com/lectures/philistines.htm

Isn't Thebes in Greece related to Thebes (Luxor) in Egypt?

shaarona
11-15-2013, 03:30 PM
The Philistines were an Aegean people who settled ancient Philistia around the 12th century b.c..

The Sage of Main Street
11-15-2013, 03:41 PM
Yeah, if they were a part of the Sea Peoples they were probably of European extraction. Fascinating stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age_collapse

This pre-historic mass murder and pointless destruction sounds like the work of the Mongols. Just like thousands of years later, they swept in, indulged in their savage impulses, and left.

Usually you get three versions of history. One, that these were the good guys (John Wayne even played
Genghis Khan), neutral: that they were just typical of their times, and horrible, which I believe. One version of that was that the Mongols literally wanted to kill everybody and destroy every structure. Horsemen, they wanted to make the whole world an empty racetrack.

shaarona
11-15-2013, 03:43 PM
This is how the Phoenicians moved around.

The Philistines probably did the same migrating from Rhodes and Crete.

http://majda.us/images/KISH_04_77.gif