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View Full Version : Stop Saying Voter ID is for Stopping Fraud - It's a Lie and You Know it



Cigar
10-26-2013, 08:50 AM
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/2013/131025-so-voter-id-laws-have-nothing-to-do-with-suppressing-the-vote-huh.jpg

'The Daily Show' Gets GOP Spokesman To Admit Voter ID Laws Are Racist - video link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023914276)

NC GOP Official fired after bragging voter ID law would "kick democrats' butt." (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023915463)

Chris
10-26-2013, 08:52 AM
Just because Yelton might be racist doesn't mean voter id laws are.

jillian
10-26-2013, 08:54 AM
Just because Yelton might be racist doesn't mean voter id laws are.

sure they aren't.. how many times do GOP operatives have to say they're to keep minorities and young people from voting before you admit it?

jillian
10-26-2013, 08:59 AM
Supporters of Pennsylvania's controversial new voter ID law - which is at this minute the subject of a court battle - say it's about curbing in-person voter fraud.So why is it that GOP leaders keep suggesting there's a political motive behind it?Who can forget GOP House leader Mike Turzai's infamous comments at a party dinner last summer when he boasted that the new voter ID would "allow Mitt Romney to win Pennsylvania."

That created a national firestorm, as Democrats and liberal talk show hosts pounced on the notion that Turzai had revealed the dark truth about voter ID; that it would prevent Democrats from voting.

Now PA GOP party chairman Rob Gleason has set off a new round of criticism by crediting voter ID with helping narrow Obama's margin of victory last fall.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/PA-GOP-chair-says-voter-ID-helped-cut-Obama-margin.html

Chris
10-26-2013, 09:01 AM
sure they aren't.. how many times do GOP operatives have to say they're to keep minorities and young people from voting before you admit it?


So you're asking for a solution to the Sorites paradox to allow you to overgeneralize.

jillian
10-26-2013, 09:01 AM
And we're totally sure that Texas' new voter ID laws have nothing to do with the fact that women won't vote for the radical rightwingers....

What the Voter ID Law Really Means for Women in Texas
Varying maiden and marriage names on crucial documents, and documents showing genders different to that presented, could cause problems for many voters at the polls

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/24/what-voter-id-laws-really-mean-for-women-voters-in-texas/#ixzz2ipvO1paR

jillian
10-26-2013, 09:02 AM
So you're asking for a solution to the Sorites paradox to allow you to overgeneralize.

how about you speak english chris

and how about you stop making up things to justify the lies of the radical righ

Chris
10-26-2013, 09:03 AM
I've always had to show an ID to vote, in fact two, a voter registration card and a photo ID. I see blacks, Hispanics, and, yes, even women voting. Amazing, isn't it.

Chris
10-26-2013, 09:06 AM
how about you speak english chris

and how about you stop making up things to justify the lies of the radical righ


I'm sorry you're not familiar with the Sorites paradox. You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox. It's basically Hume's problem with induction. We have an instance of a possibly racist person in the OP but you can't from that instance, or two, or three, infer the generalization voter ID laws are racist.

Libhater
10-26-2013, 09:07 AM
I totally agree with Don Yelton, as there is massive fraud at the voting booths, and producing a legitimate picture I.D. is and has become the American way of doing business and protecting others from the unscrupulous element of our society. Yelton's statement of his support for voter I.D. just happens to address two problems at one. It does prevent fraud and it does prevent the super lazy (those whining about it, i.e. jill & cig etc.) from taking advantage of an ever growing system made up of victims, leeches, petty thieves, illegals, bums, foreign leftists, domestic leftists, sloths, anti Americans and obummer lovers.

Alyosha
10-26-2013, 09:17 AM
If voter ID laws are racist, then that is telling more about blacks than the people making the laws. Why are blacks the only people who are unable to get picture IDs?

How is that statistically even possible?

It's not.

I will say this one last time so people know where I stand. I don't think the government has any right, in spite of what the SCOTUS says, to order people to buy anything "or else". Not an ID card or insurance.

But...I hate this whole argument. None of these laws happened within weeks of elections. People who want to vote have the same opportunity to get copies of their birth certificate and an ID. There is no way to get an SSN card without a BC, no way to get food stamps without SSN, no way to get medicaid or insurance without proof of ID.

The people bitching about the law don't seem to mind on principle the idea that the government can force us to do something or buy something so I have to wonder what they are saying about the black and minority communities--that they're stupid and incapable?

How positively patrician of them!

Libhater
10-26-2013, 09:28 AM
If voter ID laws are racist, then that is telling more about blacks than the people making the laws. Why are blacks the only people who are unable to get picture IDs?

How is that statistically even possible?

It's not.

I will say this one last time so people know where I stand. I don't think the government has any right, in spite of what the SCOTUS says, to order people to buy anything "or else". Not an ID card or insurance.

But...I hate this whole argument. None of these laws happened within weeks of elections. People who want to vote have the same opportunity to get copies of their birth certificate and an ID. There is no way to get an SSN card without a BC, no way to get food stamps without SSN, no way to get medicaid or insurance without proof of ID.

The people bitching about the law don't seem to mind on principle the idea that the government can force us to do something or buy something so I have to wonder what they are saying about the black and minority communities--that they're stupid and incapable?

How positively patrician of them!

The deal with this gang of whining deadbeats beating the drums of discontent is that they are all race baiters who have too much time on their hands to actually complain about a much more serious problem like the ruination of our nation with the obummercare monstrosity. The ironic thing about their bitching over voter I.D. laws is that it was the fraud from these voting booths that helped dems get re-elected and helped obummer sweep certain districts that showed Romney not getting a single vote. Why aren't the libs bitching about that fraud? Woops, forgot it doesn't fit in with their rules for radicals agenda.

jillian
10-26-2013, 09:34 AM
If voter ID laws are racist, then that is telling more about blacks than the people making the laws. Why are blacks the only people who are unable to get picture IDs?

How is that statistically even possible?

It's not.

I will say this one last time so people know where I stand. I don't think the government has any right, in spite of what the SCOTUS says, to order people to buy anything "or else". Not an ID card or insurance.

But...I hate this whole argument. None of these laws happened within weeks of elections. People who want to vote have the same opportunity to get copies of their birth certificate and an ID. There is no way to get an SSN card without a BC, no way to get food stamps without SSN, no way to get medicaid or insurance without proof of ID.

The people bitching about the law don't seem to mind on principle the idea that the government can force us to do something or buy something so I have to wonder what they are saying about the black and minority communities--that they're stupid and incapable?

How positively patrician of them!


riiiiiiiiiiiight

jillian
10-26-2013, 09:35 AM
I've always had to show an ID to vote, in fact two, a voter registration card and a photo ID. I see blacks, Hispanics, and, yes, even women voting. Amazing, isn't it.

assuming that's true


more rightwing searching for a solution to a non-existent problem....

unless, of course, you think the problem is young people, minorities and women voting.

no problem there, i'm sure.

we'll just "trust" you.

Alyosha
10-26-2013, 09:37 AM
riiiiiiiiiiiight

Why can't they get an ID to vote if voting is so important?

People can get health insurance because health insurance is so important? I mean, just cos the website aint working doesn't mean they can't get down to the office or wait on the phone for four hours, amirite?

I believe in all human's power to over come adversity. If they want to vote or have free health insurance or whatever you guys are selling it as they can do it. Right?

I'll just remind everyone that my opinion is the only philosophically consistent one. IF the government can force you to buy insurance it can also force you to buy an ID card. Both of them have impediments to "gettin' it done" but you gotta get it done.

Unless you love blessed freedom then you'd say that government can't force you to do either.

Alyosha
10-26-2013, 09:40 AM
assuming that's true


more rightwing searching for a solution to a non-existent problem....

unless, of course, you think the problem is young people, minorities and women voting.

no problem there, i'm sure.

we'll just "trust" you.


Well, if there is no voter fraud then it will be proven by requiring a photo ID. You guys can say "booyah!"

But it sounds like you are saying that minorities and women are too incapable of getting IDs or something. Maybe you're calling us lazy.

That doesn't sound very nice. :(

And if we're too stupid and/or lazy to get an ID card to vote when we've had a full year to do it then how can we navigate the Obamacare system or get a job that's more than assembly line work?

OH! I forget. We can strip.

Chris
10-26-2013, 09:42 AM
assuming that's true


more rightwing searching for a solution to a non-existent problem....

unless, of course, you think the problem is young people, minorities and women voting.

no problem there, i'm sure.

we'll just "trust" you.


It is true.

The need for voter ID is to prevent voter fraud.

countryboy
10-26-2013, 09:44 AM
That doesn't sound very nice. :(


It's not, and she's not. The term "lost cause" comes to mind. :wink:

The modern lib is not a nice person. Most of them are controlling assholes. The battle against the modern lib will not be won with words.

Mainecoons
10-26-2013, 10:01 AM
Wow, millions of those illiterate Mexicans in Mexico have no problem in getting PHOTO voter IDs and the government here has no problem providing them for free and quickly. All you have to do is go to a nearby office and you have it in minutes.

Voter ID prevents fraud, most of which is nearly impossible to detect beforehand due to the problem of keeping voter rolls accurate. I've seen how fraudsters, always Democrats in my direct experience, go from poll to poll claiming to be the voter and since NM has no voter ID, they are allowed to vote just on say so.

Voter ID avoids all this. You don't even need voter rolls at all because the card is proof of registration and eligibility to vote.

Over 100 countries have voter ID. I didn't realize there were so many nations trying to prevent the young and minorities from voting, did you?

What lying, hypocritical shit from people who really only want to protect the "right" of Democrats to practice pervasive voter fraud.

Codename Section
10-26-2013, 10:13 AM
Here's the thing. Republicans know it will do more than prevent voter fraud, it will prevent minorities from voting, but not because they are too broke--aint nobody that broke, but because they know that the ones they will keep from voting are too damn lazy and unmotivated to start months off to get shit organized to vote and the others already have a damn license.

Same is true for po white trash, but they aint even thinking about that and they should. It could backfire on them.

These one in a million stories on the news about so and so couldn't find this and that is like, well, so and so needed to to get an SSN so at some point they had their shit together.


And, btw, so and so can call and the state and get a copy. I have no sympathy.

Mainecoons
10-26-2013, 10:16 AM
Mexicans motivate people to get voter IDs as they are also used as official ID for other purposes. They are free and easy to get. It works. And voter participation in elections is higher here than in the U.S.

patrickt
10-26-2013, 11:30 AM
The lie is in the OP. Voter ID is to help reduce election fraud. The people saying it reduces voter participation are correct only in it reduces participation by foreign nationals, dead people, and people who vote repeatedly.

Chris
10-26-2013, 11:37 AM
I don't doubt that their are reps like the one in the op who see it as a way to manipulate the vote just like gerrymandering--and for whom it will likely backfire. My only objection is you can't generalize from those partisans to that's what voter ID laws are all about.

Green Arrow
10-26-2013, 11:44 AM
I'm going to be the odd man out, here, and say that the arguments of both sides of this issue are ridiculous, for the following reasons:

1) Republicans: I know you know this, because you engage in it, but you are more likely to drown in your bathtub than you are to see voter fraud of the kind your voter ID laws are allegedly meant to stop. That's because most voter fraud is not done by voters, it's done by pollworkers, election officials, and the government. Voter ID laws do nothing to stop or even hinder that.
2) Democrats: If you guys were half as zealous about your side's vote anomalies as you are about the Republicans, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
3) Democrats and Republicans: YOU ARE ALREADY REQUIRED TO SHOW ID AT THE POLLS. YOUR STUPID VOTER ID LAWS ARE REDUNDANT AND A WASTE OF TIME, MONEY, AND ANNOYANCE.

Alyosha
10-26-2013, 11:51 AM
I am refusing to give a shit beyond a "meh" because forcing people to have ID to vote is no different than forcing people to get insurance.

Green Arrow
10-26-2013, 11:57 AM
I am refusing to give a shit beyond a "meh" because forcing people to have ID to vote is no different than forcing people to get insurance.

I agree with that, too. Funny, isn't it, that opponents of the government forcing you to buy health insurance are supporters of the gov't forcing you to buy car insurance.

countryboy
10-26-2013, 12:03 PM
I am refusing to give a shit beyond a "meh" because forcing people to have ID to vote is no different than forcing people to get insurance.
With all due respect, bullshit. Not sure why you would say such a thing.

Green Arrow
10-26-2013, 12:06 PM
With all due respect, bullshit. Not sure why you would say such a thing.

She would say it because she believes it. Duh.

jillian
10-26-2013, 01:00 PM
She would say it because she believes it. Duh.

Which doesn't make it any less silly.

Perhaps you you should check out poll taxes and find out why they're illegal and why it's legal to make you buy auto insurance.

patrickt
10-26-2013, 01:20 PM
It is so nice the pompous Green Arrow tells us how everything is. And requiring car insurance, and birth certificates for passports, and ID to get Medicare, and ID to get on the dole, and a photo ID to get on a plane are all exactly the same at voter ID. Of course, it isn't.

No, voter ID won't solve all the problems but they also won't depress the legal votes. But, the federal government suing to maintain vote fraud is telling.

I've met two Mexican's here in Oaxaca who were very proud to show me their voter registration card. I'll bet the Democrats were proud to let them vote, too.

And you are not required to show ID when you go to vote in all states. The last time I went to a poll in the U.S. I gave my name and address and was handed a ballot. More recently, a man gave Eric Holder's name, no ID, and was offered a ballot.

Green Arrow
10-26-2013, 01:23 PM
It is so nice the pompous Green Arrow tells us how everything is. And requiring car insurance, and birth certificates for passports, and ID to get Medicare, and ID to get on the dole, and a photo ID to get on a plane are all exactly the same at voter ID. Of course, it isn't.

No, voter ID won't solve all the problems but they also won't depress the legal votes. But, the federal government suing to maintain vote fraud is telling.

I've met two Mexican's here in Oaxaca who were very proud to show me their voter registration card. I'll bet the Democrats were proud to let them vote, too.

And you are not required to show ID when you go to vote in all states. The last time I went to a poll in the U.S. I gave my name and address and was handed a ballot. More recently, a man gave Eric Holder's name, no ID, and was offered a ballot.

If you would suspend your juvenile vendetta against me, you'd realize that I was agreeing with you. Genius.

BB-35
10-26-2013, 02:32 PM
Heres the thing,these days,unless you live like grizzly adams in a log cabin in the high country,there ain't a whole lot you can do that doesn't require ID

besides,everyone should already have it,to make their lives easier..

Green Arrow
10-26-2013, 02:42 PM
Heres the thing,these days,unless you live like grizzly adams in a log cabin in the high country,there ain't a whole lot you can do that doesn't require ID

besides,everyone should already have it,to make their lives easier..

Right, I agree with this...but at the same time, making laws and enforcing laws costs money, believe it or not, so we shouldn't be passing laws that are completely unnecessary. In the case of voter ID laws, not only are they not necessary, they are completely redundant.

I mean, honestly. Has anyone ever been to a polling place pre-voter ID laws that didn't make you show ID before voting? Even when I voted in California, the biggest Democrat stronghold in the nation, I had to show my ID to vote.

GrassrootsConservative
10-26-2013, 02:43 PM
riiiiiiiiiiiight

What a great, well-articulated argument. I'm sure we'll all be losing sleep thinking about that one for days.

Mister D
10-26-2013, 02:49 PM
assuming that's true


more rightwing searching for a solution to a non-existent problem....

unless, of course, you think the problem is young people, minorities and women voting.

no problem there, i'm sure.

we'll just "trust" you.

Of course it's true. It's like background checks for guns. It's the norm. I have always been asked to present a photo ID.

Mister D
10-26-2013, 02:51 PM
Here's the thing. Republicans know it will do more than prevent voter fraud, it will prevent minorities from voting, but not because they are too broke--aint nobody that broke, but because they know that the ones they will keep from voting are too damn lazy and unmotivated to start months off to get shit organized to vote and the others already have a damn license.

Same is true for po white trash, but they aint even thinking about that and they should. It could backfire on them.

These one in a million stories on the news about so and so couldn't find this and that is like, well, so and so needed to to get an SSN so at some point they had their shit together.


And, btw, so and so can call and the state and get a copy. I have no sympathy.

Something they are loathe to admit about their base.

Mister D
10-26-2013, 02:54 PM
Which doesn't make it any less silly.

Perhaps you you should check out poll taxes and find out why they're illegal and why it's legal to make you buy auto insurance.

If it's silly perhaps you could explain exactly why?

KC
10-26-2013, 03:01 PM
I seriously have no idea how a person can get by in America without an ID of some kind. I had to have my own ID as early as 15.

Chris
10-26-2013, 03:11 PM
I'll post this again--posted it a couple months ago, and you can decry Chuck Norris but not dismiss the facts:


Here are the facts:



To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud.
More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.
There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country.
More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.
True The Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud.
Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people registering and voting after their respective deaths.
This year, True The Vote uncovered more than 348,000 dead people on the rolls in 27 states.
California: 49,000
Florida: 30,000
Texas: 28,500
Michigan: 25,000
Illinois: 24,000
12 Indiana counties have more registered voters than residents.
The Ohio Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered voters than residents.
Federal records showed 160 counties in 19 states have over 100 percent voter registration.
The Florida New Majority Education Fund, Democratic Party of Florida and the National Council of La Raza are currently under investigation for alleged voter registration fraud.
True The Vote is Chuck Norris approved.




How popular is Voter ID?

74 percent of Americans support, according to The Washington Post.
71 percent of Latinos support it, according to the PEW Research Center.


How did our voting records get so bad?

Various groups threaten local election authorities to not maintain their rolls according to federal law:

@ http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures

Chris
10-26-2013, 03:15 PM
I am refusing to give a shit beyond a "meh" because forcing people to have ID to vote is no different than forcing people to get insurance.



We're already forced to have a government, but if we're going to have one we need to do everything we can to insure against corruption. I elect to purchase insurance to protect my property.

Alyosha
10-26-2013, 03:16 PM
Which doesn't make it any less silly.

Perhaps you you should check out poll taxes and find out why they're illegal and why it's legal to make you buy auto insurance.

Poll taxes are ID's are the same thing? Not hardly when states offer "free" options.

Also they are both, imo, unconstitutional but I'm not siding with any of you guys with any voracity because you are inconsistent in your indignation.

Green Arrow
10-26-2013, 03:20 PM
We're already forced to have a government, but if we're going to have one we need to do everything we can to insure against corruption. I elect to purchase insurance to protect my property.

That's sort of where I stand. I'll fight every day to eliminate the state, but until then, if I'm going to be forced to have a government, you're damn skippy I'm going to do everything I can to make sure it's as small and free as possible.

GrassrootsConservative
10-26-2013, 03:21 PM
Poll taxes are ID's are the same thing? Not hardly when states offer "free" options.

Also they are both, imo, unconstitutional but I'm not siding with any of you guys with any voracity because you are inconsistent in your indignation.

Have I ever been inconsistent?

Contrails
10-26-2013, 04:26 PM
I'll post this again--posted it a couple months ago, and you can decry Chuck Norris but not dismiss the facts:


Here are the facts:


To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud.
More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.
There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country.
More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.
True The Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud.
Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people registering and voting after their respective deaths.
This year, True The Vote uncovered more than 348,000 dead people on the rolls in 27 states.
California: 49,000
Florida: 30,000
Texas: 28,500
Michigan: 25,000
Illinois: 24,000
12 Indiana counties have more registered voters than residents.
The Ohio Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered voters than residents.
Federal records showed 160 counties in 19 states have over 100 percent voter registration.
The Florida New Majority Education Fund, Democratic Party of Florida and the National Council of La Raza are currently under investigation for alleged voter registration fraud.
True The Vote is Chuck Norris approved.

How popular is Voter ID?

74 percent of Americans support, according to The Washington Post.
71 percent of Latinos support it, according to the PEW Research Center.


How did our voting records get so bad?

Various groups threaten local election authorities to not maintain their rolls according to federal law:

@ http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures

And Voter ID's will stop any of this how? Am I pointing out the obvious that in all of the incidents True The Vote mentions, the person had an ID? Considering how easy it is to get a fake ID, what exactly are these laws trying to do?

Chris
10-26-2013, 04:32 PM
And Voter ID's will stop any of this how? Am I pointing out the obvious that in all of the incidents True The Vote mentions, the person had an ID? Considering how easy it is to get a fake ID, what exactly are these laws trying to do?

It would make it more difficult to play and politic the system.

Contrails
10-26-2013, 04:35 PM
I've met two Mexican's here in Oaxaca who were very proud to show me their voter registration card. I'll bet the Democrats were proud to let them vote, too.
Did they have fake ID's to go with them?


The last time I went to a poll in the U.S. I gave my name and address and was handed a ballot. More recently, a man gave Eric Holder's name, no ID, and was offered a ballot.

Have you ever checked the White Pages to see how many people in this country share your name? Do you know how many Eric Holder's there are? Still, before you could vote under someone else's name, you would have to know where they are registered to vote. Polls don't just hand out ballots to anyone, you have to be on the registry first.

AmazonTania
10-26-2013, 04:36 PM
Stop suppressing voters and allow children to vote...

Contrails
10-26-2013, 04:40 PM
It would make it more difficult to play and politic the system.

As someone pointed out earlier, the real playing and politicking isn't done in the voting booth. It's not productive enough to steal votes one at a time. And shouldn't the problem you're trying to prevent be bigger than the problems your going to cause when considering any law?

Alyosha
10-26-2013, 05:14 PM
Have I ever been inconsistent?

Not that I know of or can remember.

Alyosha
10-26-2013, 05:15 PM
As someone pointed out earlier, the real playing and politicking isn't done in the voting booth. It's not productive enough to steal votes one at a time. And shouldn't the problem you're trying to prevent be bigger than the problems your going to cause when considering any law?

Yes, but when has that ever stopped any Democrat or Republican?

Green Arrow
10-26-2013, 06:28 PM
It would make it more difficult to play and politic the system.

Not really, no, because again: IDs have always been required at the polls. Always.

Venus
10-26-2013, 07:33 PM
Wow, millions of those illiterate Mexicans in Mexico have no problem in getting PHOTO voter IDs and the government here has no problem providing them for free and quickly. All you have to do is go to a nearby office and you have it in minutes.

Voter ID prevents fraud, most of which is nearly impossible to detect beforehand due to the problem of keeping voter rolls accurate. I've seen how fraudsters, always Democrats in my direct experience, go from poll to poll claiming to be the voter and since NM has no voter ID, they are allowed to vote just on say so.

Voter ID avoids all this. You don't even need voter rolls at all because the card is proof of registration and eligibility to vote.

Over 100 countries have voter ID. I didn't realize there were so many nations trying to prevent the young and minorities from voting, did you?

What lying, hypocritical shit from people who really only want to protect the "right" of Democrats to practice pervasive voter fraud.

Vote early, vote often.

patrickt
10-27-2013, 07:49 AM
Not really, no, because again: IDs have always been required at the polls. Always.

That is simply not true. And repeating it endlessly doesn't make it true.
http://news.yahoo.com/eric-holder-ballot-trickery-proves-ease-voting-fraud-215100461.html
http://www.chacha.com/question/are-you-required-to-show-id-to-vote-in-minnesota

I have personally voted without showing an ID in numerous elections. The statement that IDs are required, or even worse, have always been required is not true. In libspeak it would be he misspoke.

I vote from Mexico, now, Green Arrow, and one thing I've never been asked to do was establish my identity. I was registered to vote and I just kept voting. It's a liberal wet dream. Just think, when the liberals get millions of Mexican naturalized they can all return to Mexico and keep voting in exchange for a cell phone.

How do dead people show IDs?

Agravan
10-27-2013, 08:28 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEqh07E4dY

Green Arrow
10-27-2013, 08:34 AM
That is simply not true. And repeating it endlessly doesn't make it true.
http://news.yahoo.com/eric-holder-ballot-trickery-proves-ease-voting-fraud-215100461.html
http://www.chacha.com/question/are-you-required-to-show-id-to-vote-in-minnesota

I have personally voted without showing an ID in numerous elections. The statement that IDs are required, or even worse, have always been required is not true. In libspeak it would be he misspoke.

I vote from Mexico, now, Green Arrow, and one thing I've never been asked to do was establish my identity. I was registered to vote and I just kept voting. It's a liberal wet dream. Just think, when the liberals get millions of Mexican naturalized they can all return to Mexico and keep voting in exchange for a cell phone.

How do dead people show IDs?

I don't know how they do things in Mexico, I was talking about here in America. In America, you are required to show ID to vote. Your sources only confirm my point, that most voter fraud comes from POLLWORKERS and election officials. The O'Keefe plant pointed out that it was law in D.C. to show ID.

jillian
10-27-2013, 08:45 AM
I don't know how they do things in Mexico, I was talking about here in America. In America, you are required to show ID to vote. Your sources only confirm my point, that most voter fraud comes from POLLWORKERS and election officials. The O'Keefe plant pointed out that it was law in D.C. to show ID.

what voter fraud? most places in this country DO NOT require a specific TYPE of ID... there is almost zero in person voter fraud. they keep telling you why they want these laws.... why don't you believe them?

Captain Obvious
10-27-2013, 09:50 AM
And immigration policies are purely humanitarian.

Chris
10-27-2013, 11:03 AM
Not really, no, because again: IDs have always been required at the polls. Always.

And that's not working, thus the idea of voter ID.

Chris
10-27-2013, 11:05 AM
what voter fraud? most places in this country DO NOT require a specific TYPE of ID... there is almost zero in person voter fraud. they keep telling you why they want these laws.... why don't you believe them?



Well, you and green can fight that out. All I know is in Texas you get a voter registration card periodically mailed to your residence. And at the poll you must show that and a picture ID.



almost zero in person voter fraud

I posted a ton of cases earlier.

KC
10-27-2013, 12:45 PM
Not really, no, because again: IDs have always been required at the polls. Always.

Well, not exactly. Here in my voting district at least, at one time you could bring in an electric or water utility bill, or anyhting that "proves" you are the resident. Personally I feel that an ID is better proof and so I'm glad they change it to a legal identification.

patrickt
10-27-2013, 01:42 PM
I don't know how they do things in Mexico, I was talking about here in America. In America, you are required to show ID to vote. Your sources only confirm my point, that most voter fraud comes from POLLWORKERS and election officials. The O'Keefe plant pointed out that it was law in D.C. to show ID.

I lived in the U.S. for fifty years, fool. I voted ever since I was 21. I'm shocked that since you live in the U.S., you'd know better. But, perhaps you do know better and simply prefer to lie.

Did you read the links. Of course, you've never offered a citation for your bullshit. One would think the first argument against Voter ID is that Voter ID is already required. That argument has never been made. No, you liberals always go with voter suppression. The reason the liberals don't say voter ID is already required is because...it isn't in many states.

countryboy
10-27-2013, 02:28 PM
Yeah, if it's already law, what's the argument? Obviously, it's not law everywhere. Duh.

Alyosha
10-27-2013, 02:31 PM
If the anti-ID types were by and large "pro liberty" I'd be out there with them protesting but since they are not and realize that many of their voters are just too lazy to get ID I can't be bothered.

If they were just as pissed at the individual mandate I'd be right beside them on this one.

Alyosha
10-27-2013, 02:33 PM
Oh, and me saying it...this isn't racist, either. If Republicans thought they could depress Democrat voting in any way shape or form they would do it...and that's what these laws are about. It's just that both parties deep down don't want to admit that they believe that blacks in general are not going out of their way to vote.

roadmaster
10-27-2013, 04:09 PM
You can't get SS, disability, welfare, buy certain products including video games without a ID. Can't play sports without a BC or SS number. How is it all of a sudden bad when voting. The only thing I can think of is WIC that some don't ask for an ID. It's a lame argument and they know it.

Cigar
10-28-2013, 06:58 AM
If you like to know my honest opinion, I hope The GOP and The Republican Party never ever change, as a matter of fact, I hope they go even harder Right. As far as I’m concerned, the Party hasn’t isolated themselves enough, and fact that they are losing Woman Voters in the Great Red States of Texas and North Carolina is verification enough for me. So if you ask me, I highly endorse the election, political methods and tactics of The GOP and The Republican Party. It has done nothing be bring pleasure for me, so as far as I'm concerned; Don’t change a thing.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mNU_eLjx_ss/T7UTqKYZpbI/AAAAAAAACcs/sQlYlWf1gNA/s400/GoP+dinosaur+3.png

Chris
10-28-2013, 07:45 AM
If you like to know my honest opinion, I hope The GOP and The Republican Party never ever change, as a matter of fact, I hope they go even harder Right. As far as I’m concerned, the Party hasn’t isolated themselves enough, and fact that they are losing Woman Voters in the Great Red States of Texas and North Carolina is verification enough for me. So if you ask me, I highly endorse the election, political methods and tactics of The GOP and The Republican Party. It has done nothing be bring pleasure for me, so as far as I'm concerned; Don’t change a thing.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mNU_eLjx_ss/T7UTqKYZpbI/AAAAAAAACcs/sQlYlWf1gNA/s400/GoP+dinosaur+3.png



Did you forget the topic?

Libhater
10-28-2013, 07:52 AM
Did you forget the topic?

You should know that when (which is always) a liberal has no reasonable or intelligent retort to any serious topic that they will avoid or shift (troll) the conversation back to their own comfort zone. This tactic is better explained from the 12 points of Saul Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals'.

patrickt
10-28-2013, 07:53 AM
No, Cigar, no one asked you and perhaps two people care what you think. I would probably care if you lied less and if 10% of your posts reflected your thoughts.

zelmo1234
10-28-2013, 08:03 AM
how about you speak english chris

and how about you stop making up things to justify the lies of the radical righ

I don't think that Ted is worried about what TX thinks

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Texans-view-Cruz-more-favorably-than-rest-of-U-S-4911882.php

He is not in trouble in TX he is a hero!

zelmo1234
10-28-2013, 08:06 AM
If voter ID laws are racist, then that is telling more about blacks than the people making the laws. Why are blacks the only people who are unable to get picture IDs?

How is that statistically even possible?

It's not.

I will say this one last time so people know where I stand. I don't think the government has any right, in spite of what the SCOTUS says, to order people to buy anything "or else". Not an ID card or insurance.

But...I hate this whole argument. None of these laws happened within weeks of elections. People who want to vote have the same opportunity to get copies of their birth certificate and an ID. There is no way to get an SSN card without a BC, no way to get food stamps without SSN, no way to get medicaid or insurance without proof of ID.

The people bitching about the law don't seem to mind on principle the idea that the government can force us to do something or buy something so I have to wonder what they are saying about the black and minority communities--that they're stupid and incapable?

How positively patrician of them!

But how can you use the tried and true policy of Vote early and vote often if you have to use a photo ID?

zelmo1234
10-28-2013, 08:07 AM
assuming that's true


more rightwing searching for a solution to a non-existent problem....

unless, of course, you think the problem is young people, minorities and women voting.

no problem there, i'm sure.

we'll just "trust" you.

Why is it hard for them to get an ID?

Chris
10-28-2013, 08:08 AM
I don't think that Ted is worried about what TX thinks

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Texans-view-Cruz-more-favorably-than-rest-of-U-S-4911882.php

He is not in trouble in TX he is a hero!


Iowa embraced him.

patrickt
10-28-2013, 08:19 AM
Liberals think blacks, who generally vote for liberals, are obviously too stupid and too irresponsible to get an ID. Of course, a crafty community organizer could set up a system to help them but what about those who are dead, vote repeatedly, or aren't U.S. citizens. Uh-huh, what about them? What are Jillian's "righ" wingers going to do for them? They want to disenfranchise them.

Cigar
10-28-2013, 08:30 AM
This is a wonderful time to be a Progressive Liberal, 8 years of Conservative bitching and infighting with a 90% chance of 8 more, is sweet music.

Soon ... even Conservative mothers won't want then anymore. :laugh:

Cigar
10-28-2013, 08:33 AM
Liberals think blacks, who generally vote for liberals, are obviously too stupid and too irresponsible to get an ID. Of course, a crafty community organizer could set up a system to help them but what about those who are dead, vote repeatedly, or aren't U.S. citizens. Uh-huh, what about them? What are Jillian's "righ" wingers going to do for them? They want to disenfranchise them.

Hey Patrick ... ever think that there were enough Blacks with IDs to kick the living shit out of The Republican Party ... TWICE, that if more had IDs, Conservatives won't be able to win in their gerrymandering districts?

Mister D
10-28-2013, 08:34 AM
This is a wonderful time to be a Progressive Liberal, 8 years of Conservative bitching and infighting with a 90% chance of 8 more, is sweet music.

Soon ... even Conservative mothers won't want then anymore. :laugh:

Not a black one. What with double digit unemployment and vastly reduced net worth...

Cigar
10-28-2013, 08:36 AM
Not a black one. What with double digit unemployment and vastly reduced net worth...

Has absolutely noting to do with casting a single Vote :grin: ... but nice try. :laugh:

Mister D
10-28-2013, 08:39 AM
Has absolutely noting to do with casting a single Vote :grin: ... but nice try. :laugh:

It has everything to do with your comment and the fcat that you vote against your own economic and political interests. Si se puede, morons. :laugh:

Chris
10-28-2013, 08:56 AM
This is a wonderful time to be a Progressive Liberal, 8 years of Conservative bitching and infighting with a 90% chance of 8 more, is sweet music.

Soon ... even Conservative mothers won't want then anymore. :laugh:



You keep posting in the wrong thread. Think we're going to have to nickname you Captain Wrongway Cigar after the famous Peach Fuzz...

http://i.snag.gy/nIMWv.jpg

Cigar
10-28-2013, 09:43 AM
Tick-Tock :grin:

BB-35
10-28-2013, 11:43 AM
Right, I agree with this...but at the same time, making laws and enforcing laws costs money, believe it or not, so we shouldn't be passing laws that are completely unnecessary. In the case of voter ID laws, not only are they not necessary, they are completely redundant.

I mean, honestly. Has anyone ever been to a polling place pre-voter ID laws that didn't make you show ID before voting? Even when I voted in California, the biggest Democrat stronghold in the nation, I had to show my ID to vote.

Well ever since I was old enough to vote,I've always voted in the same baptist church about a block from my house.....up until then,the only time I had to show ID was if I forgot my votors registration card

Green Arrow
10-28-2013, 04:10 PM
Well ever since I was old enough to vote,I've always voted in the same baptist church about a block from my house.....up until then,the only time I had to show ID was if I forgot my votors registration card

I don't trust a damn word that comes out of patrickt's mouth, especially when experience shows he's full of it. Nobody, nobody, is 100% correct, so if you have a magic personal story that proves everything you say correct, chances are you're lying.

But, I have no reason to doubt you. It seems odd to me that I would vote in three completely different states, culturally and politically, and be required to show my ID in all three in order to get a ballot, and yet that not be a sign that it's universal. I defer to your judgment, however.

None of this controverts my point that 90% (lest someone overly anal complains, yes, I made that up, I don't know the exact percentage, but it's the vast majority) of voter fraud is done by pollworkers and election officials, not individual voters. Individual voters have no real means of committing voter fraud.

Blackrook
10-28-2013, 10:47 PM
In the last week alone, I have been asked for my ID to fly on an airplane, buy a beer, and cash a check. I do not see the problem with Voter ID.

Common
10-28-2013, 10:51 PM
Im not against someone showing Id to be able to determine if they are registered voters. The problem I have is the way the right govs are doing it to intentionally make it miserable in the hopes of reducing democrat voter turnout.
I think they are selling people short and what people are willing to do to exercise their right to vote.
Rick Scotts coup on voters blew up in his face, not only did the voters stand in the heat for hours to vote he turned Republicans against it too even many of them realized what a lousy ploy it was.

Green Arrow
10-28-2013, 10:57 PM
Im not against someone showing Id to be able to determine if they are registered voters. The problem I have is the way the right govs are doing it to intentionally make it miserable in the hopes of reducing democrat voter turnout.
I think they are selling people short and what people are willing to do to exercise their right to vote.
Rick Scotts coup on voters blew up in his face, not only did the voters stand in the heat for hours to vote he turned Republicans against it too even many of them realized what a lousy ploy it was.

In the interest of honesty and consistency, and TRUE independent thought, as you claim to be...do you also acknowledge that the Democrats are using immigration as a ploy for votes?

Common
10-28-2013, 11:13 PM
In the interest of honesty and consistency, and TRUE independent thought, as you claim to be...do you also acknowledge that the Democrats are using immigration as a ploy for votes?

Absolutely, Ive always stated without hesitation that Republicans want illegal immigration to stifle wages and keep wages suppressed and the democrats want it for votes.

The republicans problem is that after allowing decades of illegals to pour in for cheap labor and giving them amnesty <reagan and dems> and leaving the border open to give them more of an incentive to break our laws. The gop came out the loser and the Dems the winner and im not being partisan its simply that now soon alot of those immigrants after this amnesty will be voting in the future and they arent going to vote GOP. Ann Coulter has been right all along about illegal immigration and its effect on the gop but they wouldnt listen to her.
The let rubio make their bed now they have to sleep in it and the gop will vote for this amnesty bill in some form and they wont get a single vote for it.

patrickt
10-29-2013, 08:32 AM
And, the federal mail-in voter registration and voting process does not require proof of citizenship. Before long, Mexicans will be voting in U.S. elections with mail-in ballots. Happy days for Democrats but not for Americans.

Cigar
10-29-2013, 09:11 AM
In the last week alone, I have been asked for my ID to fly on an airplane, buy a beer, and cash a check. I do not see the problem with Voter ID.

After everyone has an ID ... then what are they going to do? :grin:

BB-35
10-29-2013, 11:52 AM
I don't trust a damn word that comes out of patrickt's mouth, especially when experience shows he's full of it. Nobody, nobody, is 100% correct, so if you have a magic personal story that proves everything you say correct, chances are you're lying.

But, I have no reason to doubt you. It seems odd to me that I would vote in three completely different states, culturally and politically, and be required to show my ID in all three in order to get a ballot, and yet that not be a sign that it's universal. I defer to your judgment, however.

None of this controverts my point that 90% (lest someone overly anal complains, yes, I made that up, I don't know the exact percentage, but it's the vast majority) of voter fraud is done by pollworkers and election officials, not individual voters. Individual voters have no real means of committing voter fraud.

Maybe it has something to do with population(we're about 40,000) or that I knew some of the poll workers,and woked with one of them,or the fact that My family has been involved with the church since before I was born....

Chris
10-29-2013, 12:10 PM
In the interest of honesty and consistency, and TRUE independent thought, as you claim to be...do you also acknowledge that the Democrats are using immigration as a ploy for votes?


Absolutely, Ive always stated without hesitation that Republicans want illegal immigration to stifle wages and keep wages suppressed and the democrats want it for votes.

The republicans problem is that after allowing decades of illegals to pour in for cheap labor and giving them amnesty <reagan and dems> and leaving the border open to give them more of an incentive to break our laws. The gop came out the loser and the Dems the winner and im not being partisan its simply that now soon alot of those immigrants after this amnesty will be voting in the future and they arent going to vote GOP. Ann Coulter has been right all along about illegal immigration and its effect on the gop but they wouldnt listen to her.
The let rubio make their bed now they have to sleep in it and the gop will vote for this amnesty bill in some form and they wont get a single vote for it.



Too funny.