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View Full Version : Vermont Is Pushing Ahead With A Healthcare Plan That Goes Far Beyond Obamacare



Cigar
10-29-2013, 07:22 AM
As states open insurance marketplaces amid uncertainty about whether they're a solution for health care, Vermont is eyeing a bigger goal, one that more fully embraces a government-funded model.

The state has a planned 2017 launch of the nation's first universal health care system, a sort of modified Medicare-for-all that has long been a dream for many liberals.

The plan is especially ambitious in the current atmosphere surrounding health care in the United States. Republicans in Congress balk at the federal health overhaul years after it was signed into law. States are still negotiating their terms for implementing it. And some major employers have begun to drastically limit their offerings of employee health insurance, raising questions about the future of the industry altogether.

In such a setting, Vermont's plan looks more and more like an anomaly. It combines universal coverage with new cost controls in an effort to move away from a system in which the more procedures doctors and hospitals perform, the more they get paid, to one in which providers have a set budget to care for a set number of patients.

The result will be health care that's "a right and not a privilege," Gov. Peter Shumlin said.


http://www.businessinsider.com/vermont-is-pushing-ahead-with-a-healthcare-plan-that-goes-far-beyond-obamacare-2013-10#ixzz2ivnNBAo6

CAN'T STOP THIS ! :grin:

http://i.bullfax.com/imgs/bfcfda3a945d3d3949a6a8d177dddae015184605.jpg

nathanbforrest45
10-29-2013, 07:37 AM
That is certainly the right of any state to enact whatever communist plan they wish. Vermonters would then be free to move to New Hampshire if they so choose.

Common
10-29-2013, 07:39 AM
Cigar, you and I can speak about this like gentlemen, we havent rubbed each other raw.
This rollout has been a disaster we have to acknowledge that. Obama should put Sebelius down she has failed him and the country. She has known since the day the bill was signed that it was going to have to be implemented. She had ample time as the person in charge to mobilize those that would be responsible for the technology and implementation of the enrollment website. She has failed everyone and mostly she has made Obama look real bad.
Everyone can err this was beyond an error this was a catastrophic mistake for all involved, its like she sat there and has done nothing for a year and half. The minimum Obama should do immediately is to acknowledge he made a bad choice in Sebelius and at least ask her to step down and put a fresh face up there.
A catastrophy of this magnitude should never have occurred with the amount of time they had to prepare for it. No President could be responsible for this error no president would have been doing it himself, but he is ultimately responsible for choosing the wrong person to get the job done. Dump and dump her now shes a fail that cannot be savalged.

Common
10-29-2013, 07:42 AM
Disclaimer: All right wing trolls will be responded to in a discourteous manner with included appropriate insults. You know the same way youve been responding to my posts for months. Take the high road baby be the better person while I have a blast down here in the low road <grin>

Peter1469
10-29-2013, 08:13 AM
I say great. Let Vermont do what its citizens want. Let the states experiment with different ideas rather than have the federal government shove a one size fits all solution down our throats.

nathanbforrest45
10-29-2013, 08:20 AM
I say great. Let Vermont do what its citizens want. Let the states experiment with different ideas rather than have the federal government shove a one size fits all solution down our throats.


That does seem to be the purpose of the 10th Amendment but hey, the Constitution is just a negative document that keeps the federal government from doing what it "knows" to be the right thing.

patrickt
10-29-2013, 08:24 AM
That is certainly the right of any state to enact whatever communist plan they wish. Vermonters would then be free to move to New Hampshire if they so choose.

Providing they pay for it. I'm all for states trying different programs to meet the wants of their citizens. California does and Illinois does and New York does and Massachusetts does. It's that paying for it that seems to be the catch.

Peter1469
10-29-2013, 08:29 AM
Providing they pay for it. I'm all for states trying different programs to meet the wants of their citizens. California does and Illinois does and New York does and Massachusetts does. It's that paying for it that seems to be the catch.

I certainly agree with that.

nathanbforrest45
10-29-2013, 08:32 AM
Providing they pay for it. I'm all for states trying different programs to meet the wants of their citizens. California does and Illinois does and New York does and Massachusetts does. It's that paying for it that seems to be the catch.


Blame that on the concept of "revenue sharing" in which the "poor states" would be allowed to pick the pockets of the "rich states".

Cigar
10-29-2013, 08:43 AM
Cigar, you and I can speak about this like gentlemen, we havent rubbed each other raw.
This rollout has been a disaster we have to acknowledge that. Obama should put Sebelius down she has failed him and the country. She has known since the day the bill was signed that it was going to have to be implemented. She had ample time as the person in charge to mobilize those that would be responsible for the technology and implementation of the enrollment website. She has failed everyone and mostly she has made Obama look real bad.
Everyone can err this was beyond an error this was a catastrophic mistake for all involved, its like she sat there and has done nothing for a year and half. The minimum Obama should do immediately is to acknowledge he made a bad choice in Sebelius and at least ask her to step down and put a fresh face up there.
A catastrophy of this magnitude should never have occurred with the amount of time they had to prepare for it. No President could be responsible for this error no president would have been doing it himself, but he is ultimately responsible for choosing the wrong person to get the job done. Dump and dump her now shes a fail that cannot be savalged.

First of all; as a Experienced IT Professional, the last thing you do as an IT Executive is run around like a chicken with it's head cut off, firing the UN-involved. The first order of business is the analyze and isolate the problem(s), identify the individuals who "can" fix it, then test it, then re-deploy it.

The last step is the Postmortem and the postmortem actions.

Sebelius is NOT a Hi-Tech Executive, she's a politician first, second and last. Sebelius did NOT write one line of Code, nor did she direct ANYONE writing Code and Testing Code.

Focus on The Problem First ... Firing her NOW resolves or fixes nothing. Firing her only causes everyone under her to be distracted. A experienced Leader would focus FIRST on resolving the Problem(s). The actions of Politician would be to take the focus away for the problem and resolve noting.

Fix the Problem FIRST ... Then Sell The Tickets for The Public Hanging Last.

Sure ... a Firing feels good ... for a Micro-Second ... then the Problems still exist.

lynn
10-29-2013, 08:44 AM
The problem is since the government is mandating this for everyone they should have also eliminated the insurance companies altogether and have everyone pay into one big pool. The greed of health insurance companies is over the top by increasing deductibles so they don't have to pay for your healthcare year after after until later in life when maybe a illness lands you in the hospital is when they will pay. However, you will still have that large deductible plus co-insurance to pay when that happens.

The entire exchange is set up so we the citizens are paying premiums month after month and getting very little in return. I see now why Obama said this would reduce the deficit, our money is not going to our healthcare.

Cigar
10-29-2013, 08:47 AM
The problem is since the government is mandating this for everyone they should have also eliminated the insurance companies altogether and have everyone pay into one big pool. The greed of health insurance companies is over the top by increasing deductibles so they don't have to pay for your healthcare year after after until later in life when maybe a illness lands you in the hospital is when they will pay. However, you will still have that large deductible plus co-insurance to pay when that happens.

The entire exchange is set up so we the citizens are paying premiums month after month and getting very little in return. I see now why Obama said this would reduce the deficit, our money is not going to our healthcare.

I keep telling everyone who is complaining about their Insurance Premiums going up ... they need to remember the last time your Premiums didn't go up or your coverage went down. Never .. not in decades. So WTF does that have to do with ObamaCare?

Agravan
10-29-2013, 11:09 AM
I keep telling everyone who is complaining about their Insurance Premiums going up ... they need to remember the last time your Premiums didn't go up or your coverage went down. Never .. not in decades. So WTF does that have to do with ObamaCare?
Premiums going up yearly is one thing, but doubling because we now need to pay for things we don't need or will never use, plus the high deductibles which mean that we are basically self insuring and paying for the privilege. So, Cigar, what about the lower income families that now face $10k-$15k deductibles for their family, when previously is was $3k-$5k. Do you really think obamacare is helping these families drive down the cost of their healthcare? If they could barely make the $3k-$5 deductible, how are they going to make the $10k-$15k deductible while paying double or triple their monthly premiums. How is that "affordable'? Oh yeah, "subsidies', if you qualify, but then, where does the subsidy money come from?

Cigar
10-29-2013, 12:21 PM
Premiums going up yearly is one thing, but doubling because we now need to pay for things we don't need or will never use, plus the high deductibles which mean that we are basically self insuring and paying for the privilege. So, Cigar, what about the lower income families that now face $10k-$15k deductibles for their family, when previously is was $3k-$5k. Do you really think obamacare is helping these families drive down the cost of their healthcare? If they could barely make the $3k-$5 deductible, how are they going to make the $10k-$15k deductible while paying double or triple their monthly premiums. How is that "affordable'? Oh yeah, "subsidies', if you qualify, but then, where does the subsidy money come from?

It's called a Subsidy ... try Reading The Law :laugh:

The Money comes from Insurers ...try Reading The Law :laugh:

Are you new to the concept of Insurance?

Agravan
10-29-2013, 12:34 PM
It's called a Subsidy ... try Reading The Law :laugh:

The Money comes from Insurers ...try Reading The Law :laugh:

Are you new to the concept of Insurance?

No, I am not new to the concept of insurance. but insurance that have deductibles so high that you can never meet them is useless.
As far as subsidies, the do not come from the insurance companies, they come from the people FORCED to participate in this Ponzi scheme. By the way, did you NOT read the part that said "if you qualify for subsidies". What happens to the people that don't (and many won't)? They're basically screwed.
But, apparently, you're still okay with that as long as your Dear Leader has his legacy.

Common
10-29-2013, 02:01 PM
First of all; as a Experienced IT Professional, the last thing you do as an IT Executive is run around like a chicken with it's head cut off, firing the UN-involved. The first order of business is the analyze and isolate the problem(s), identify the individuals who "can" fix it, then test it, then re-deploy it.

The last step is the Postmortem and the postmortem actions.

Sebelius is NOT a Hi-Tech Executive, she's a politician first, second and last. Sebelius did NOT write one line of Code, nor did she direct ANYONE writing Code and Testing Code.

Focus on The Problem First ... Firing her NOW resolves or fixes nothing. Firing her only causes everyone under her to be distracted. A experienced Leader would focus FIRST on resolving the Problem(s). The actions of Politician would be to take the focus away for the problem and resolve noting.

Fix the Problem FIRST ... Then Sell The Tickets for The Public Hanging Last.

Sure ... a Firing feels good ... for a Micro-Second ... then the Problems still exist.


No one expects the CEO to get their hands dirty, but they are expected to ASSURE that the job gets done, the people are in place to do what needs to be done. She did not do that period.

Let me ask you this, If it wasnt Sebelius fault, whos fault is it.

Codename Section
10-29-2013, 03:30 PM
I say great. Let Vermont do what its citizens want. Let the states experiment with different ideas rather than have the federal government shove a one size fits all solution down our throats.

Yep. This.

Codename Section
10-29-2013, 03:34 PM
First of all; as a Experienced IT Professional, the last thing you do as an IT Executive is run around like a chicken with it's head cut off, firing the UN-involved.

She's responsible. She has a track record of fucking up large scale IT systems. She picked a company off a task order that had litigation against it.

She's the top guy and they should fall on their swords, not the people doing what they are told.




The first order of business is the analyze and isolate the problem(s), identify the individuals who "can" fix it, then test it, then re-deploy it.


10 year old code. Even if they fix it, it will be obsolete by next year.



The last step is the Postmortem and the postmortem actions.

Sebelius is NOT a Hi-Tech Executive, she's a politician first, second and last. Sebelius did NOT write one line of Code, nor did she direct ANYONE writing Code and Testing Code.


Nor did those people set the schedule, she did. They said "not enough time".



Focus on The Problem First ... Firing her NOW resolves or fixes nothing. Firing her only causes everyone under her to be distracted. A experienced Leader would focus FIRST on resolving the Problem(s). The actions of Politician would be to take the focus away for the problem and resolve noting.

Fix the Problem FIRST ... Then Sell The Tickets for The Public Hanging Last.

Sure ... a Firing feels good ... for a Micro-Second ... then the Problems still exist.

The problem will still exist and incompetance will not have been rewarded. Why are all the people at the top immune and the people on the bottom on the chopping block?

nathanbforrest45
10-29-2013, 03:43 PM
I own a small company. Guess what happens if one of my employees total screws up a client's files? Can I sit back and say, hey it wasn't my fault, it was Joes so you can't blame me? Nope, I just lost a client.

Peter1469
10-29-2013, 05:20 PM
I don't know the specific contract at issue, but based on the news reports I would guess that it is a single award indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract. It appears to have a very broad scope. (Like LOGCP used to be for the Army- I pushed them to make LOGCAP IV a multiple award IDIQ contract). And this procurement was a task order issued off the existing IDIQ contract. I imagine that the agency program office had an unclear idea of what they wanted the website to be able to do, and kept coming up with a lot of additional ideas after the task order was issued (which would account for the cost overruns and general failure of it to work).

Blackrook
10-30-2013, 12:23 AM
I just went to the Obamacare website and most of the links don't work.

Adelaide
10-30-2013, 02:57 AM
Providing they pay for it. I'm all for states trying different programs to meet the wants of their citizens. California does and Illinois does and New York does and Massachusetts does. It's that paying for it that seems to be the catch.

I agree. If UHC is something some Americans want, it has to be at the state level and it has to be something the majority in that state wants. I think a lot of the existing UHC programs working around the world don't have the startling problem of creating a program capable of responsibly and comprehensively covering 300 million plus people. States individually tackling the idea and only putting public options in place with support of their constituents makes the absolute most sense, regardless of what it says in the US Constitution - it just makes the most sense.

zelmo1234
10-30-2013, 05:18 AM
First of all; as a Experienced IT Professional, the last thing you do as an IT Executive is run around like a chicken with it's head cut off, firing the UN-involved. The first order of business is the analyze and isolate the problem(s), identify the individuals who "can" fix it, then test it, then re-deploy it.

The last step is the Postmortem and the postmortem actions.

Sebelius is NOT a Hi-Tech Executive, she's a politician first, second and last. Sebelius did NOT write one line of Code, nor did she direct ANYONE writing Code and Testing Code.

Focus on The Problem First ... Firing her NOW resolves or fixes nothing. Firing her only causes everyone under her to be distracted. A experienced Leader would focus FIRST on resolving the Problem(s). The actions of Politician would be to take the focus away for the problem and resolve noting.

Fix the Problem FIRST ... Then Sell The Tickets for The Public Hanging Last.

Sure ... a Firing feels good ... for a Micro-Second ... then the Problems still exist.

Cigar, this might be the best post you have ever written.

You are correct, political firings are only sued to deflect from the situation at hand!

Cigar
10-30-2013, 06:46 AM
I just went to the Obamacare website and most of the links don't work.

My first question would be; what State do you live in?
My second question would be; what level of participation did your Governor take in your ability to get affordable Health Care?
My third question would be; what level of participation did your State take your Experience to acquiring Affordable Health Care?

:wink:

patrickt
10-30-2013, 07:45 AM
The problem is since the government is mandating this for everyone they should have also eliminated the insurance companies altogether and have everyone pay into one big pool. The greed of health insurance companies is over the top by increasing deductibles so they don't have to pay for your healthcare year after after until later in life when maybe a illness lands you in the hospital is when they will pay. However, you will still have that large deductible plus co-insurance to pay when that happens.

The entire exchange is set up so we the citizens are paying premiums month after month and getting very little in return. I see now why Obama said this would reduce the deficit, our money is not going to our healthcare.

Lynn, the government is one of the few groups who can screw up just about anything. Now that they've screwed up health care, you are saying the problem is we didn't give them the power to totally and absolutely screw it up.

The government mandates higher standards on health policies than many citizens want or need and, of course, the price is higher unless you're in a special protected class like legislative aides and as millions lose their coverage and they're not happy.

Your solution is to give the government absolute total control. Wow, they should make the survivors really happy.