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shaarona
11-03-2013, 02:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aZMbTFNp4wI

GrassrootsConservative
11-03-2013, 02:20 PM
What's so wrong about the idea of women driving, shaarona?

shaarona
11-03-2013, 02:25 PM
What's so wrong about the idea of women driving, @shaarona (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=434)?

Nothing. .. and women in rural areas have been driving for decades.

The no driving thing is not law.. its the way KSA evolved..

KSA has one of the highest accident rates in the world.. They have some other problems to solve.

The new MEED system may solve that problem.

GrassrootsConservative
11-03-2013, 02:28 PM
Nothing. .. and women in rural areas have been driving for decades.

The no driving thing is not law.. its the way KSA evolved..

KSA has one of the highest accident rates in the world.. They have some other problems to solve.

The new MEED system may solve that problem.

"No Woman No Drive" sure sounds like it's against women drivers. As for all this other stuff I'm not from where you are so I have no idea what you're talking about. Just wanted you to know there's nothing wrong with women drivers, I know that's a big part of muslim culture.

shaarona
11-03-2013, 02:30 PM
"No Woman No Drive" sure sounds like it's against women drivers. As for all this other stuff I'm not from where you are so I have no idea what you're talking about. Just wanted you to know there's nothing wrong with women drivers, I know that's a big part of muslim culture.

Oh its not against women drivers............ Its poking fun at the old timers.

Captain Obvious
11-03-2013, 04:29 PM
In civilized societies, women are statistically safer drivers.

nathanbforrest45
11-04-2013, 12:49 PM
They were safer drivers, they are becoming just as aggressive as the men now.

shaarona
11-16-2013, 02:19 PM
In civilized societies, women are statistically safer drivers.

The Saudis are very civilized.. Almost no crime and people are polite.

The Wash
11-16-2013, 03:31 PM
the saudis are very civilized.. Almost no crime and people are polite.

lol

KC
11-16-2013, 03:37 PM
In civilized societies, women are statistically safer drivers.

It shows in the insurance rates college age guys pay vs those college age girls pay. It's way too expensive.

The Wash
11-16-2013, 03:51 PM
http://freethinker.co.uk/2013/09/27/rape-victims-lashes-increased-because-her-lawyer-publicised-her-barbaric-sentence/

Rape victim’s lashes INCREASED – because her lawyer publicised her barbaric sentence (http://freethinker.co.uk/2013/09/27/rape-victims-lashes-increased-because-her-lawyer-publicised-her-barbaric-sentence/)By Barry Duke (http://freethinker.co.uk/author/barry-duke/)
– September 27, 2013Posted in: Islam (http://freethinker.co.uk/category/islam/), Islamic atrocities (http://freethinker.co.uk/category/islamic-atrocities/), Islamic idiocy (http://freethinker.co.uk/category/islamic-idiocy/), Religion and crime (http://freethinker.co.uk/category/religion-and-crime/), Religion and sex (http://freethinker.co.uk/category/religion-and-sex/), Religion and the law (http://freethinker.co.uk/category/religion-and-the-law/), Women under Islam (http://freethinker.co.uk/category/women-under-islam/)
SAUDI lawyer Abd al-Rahman al-Lahim had the temerity to draw the world’s attention to the fact that a court had sentenced a 19-year-old rape victim to 90 lashes.
The resultant publicity so enraged the Saudi judiciary it has INCREASED the sentence imposed on the young woman to 200 lashes, plus six months in jail. (http://www.clarionproject.org/news/saudi-arabia-defends-barabric-sentence-given-rape-victim#)
And the court punished al-Lahem too – banning him from further defending the woman, confiscating his license and summoning him to a disciplinary hearing later this month.

Common
11-16-2013, 09:46 PM
The Saudis are very civilized.. Almost no crime and people are polite.

How the hell can there be any crime when a saudi woman gets raped and SHE gets convicted are you serious shaarona ?

I actually posted this before I read washs post on it

shaarona
11-17-2013, 11:16 AM
How the hell can there be any crime when a saudi woman gets raped and SHE gets convicted are you serious shaarona ?

I actually posted this before I read washs post on it

I think you are confused... When a woman is raped she is NOT charged... unless she was out with a group of men.

Rape is a capital offense.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 11:19 AM
I think you are confused... When a woman is raped she is NOT charged... unless she was out with a group of men.

Rape is a capital offense.

You're the only person who is confused. Even if she was out naked with 100 men she shouldn't be charged. Why you making excuses? Sad, sad.

shaarona
11-17-2013, 11:19 AM
While in a car with the student, two men got into the vehicle and drove them to a secluded area. She said she was raped there by seven men, three of whom also attacked her friend.

Her punishment was thrown out...

shaarona
11-17-2013, 11:20 AM
You're the only person who is confused. Even if she was out naked with 100 men she shouldn't be charged. Why you making excuses? Sad, sad.

These websites NEVER follow up..

The Qatif rape case (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): قضية اغتصاب فتاة القطيف‎) is a much-publicized gang rape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_rape) case. The victim was a teenage girl from Qatif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif) (Eastern Province (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Province,_Saudi_Arabia), Saudi Arabia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia)), who, along with her male companion, was kidnapped and gang-raped by seven Saudi men in mid-2006. A Saudi Sharia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia) court sentenced the perpetrators to varying sentences involving 80 to 1,000 lashes and imprisonment up to ten years for four of them.

The court also sentenced the two victims to six months in prison and 90 lashes each for "being alone with a man who is not a relative" in a parked car. The appeals court doubled the victims' sentences in late 2007 as punishment for the heavy media coverage of the event in the international press regarding the treatment of women in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Saudi judicial practices.

In December 2007 the Saudi King (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Saudi_Arabia) Abdullah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_of_Saudi_Arabia) issued an official pardon for the two victims, citing his ultimate authority to revise "discretionary" punishments in accordance with the public good, although the pardon did not reflect any lack of confidence in the Saudi justice system or in the fairness of the verdicts.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 11:23 AM
While in a car with the student, two men got into the vehicle and drove them to a secluded area. She said she was raped there by seven men, three of whom also attacked her friend.

Her punishment was thrown out...

Link it.

shaarona
11-17-2013, 11:24 AM
Link it.

Posted above from Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case

The Wash
11-17-2013, 12:31 PM
Posted above from Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case

The punishment wasn't changed or thrown out, she was pardoned by the King after international pressure was put on her case. The law is the same. You said so yourself that the rape victim is only punished if she is around men or some shit. The rape victim should never be punished. Rape is a punishment.

Why you being an apologist for cruelty? Did you think it was ok that there were Jim Crow laws since not every store abided by them?

shaarona
11-17-2013, 12:34 PM
The punishment wasn't changed or thrown out, she was pardoned by the King after international pressure was put on her case. The law is the same. You said so yourself that the rape victim is only punished if she is around men or some shit. The rape victim should never be punished. Rape is a punishment.

Why you being an apologist for cruelty? Did you think it was ok that there were Jim Crow laws since not every store abided by them?

Exactly.. You do know that most law in KSA is not codified.

In KSA women don't go out at night with men who are not family.. This girl ... the Qatif Girl was apparently blackmailed into going out with this young man....

What you will find in the western websites.. is that they NEVER follow up on the story.. They prefer sensationalism.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 12:40 PM
Exactly.. You do know that most law in KSA is not codified.

In KSA women don't go out at night with men who are not family.. This girl ... the Qatif Girl was apparently blackmailed into going out with this young man....

What you will find in the western websites.. is that they NEVER follow up on the story.. They prefer sensationalism.


Follow up story? That she was pardoned? Dude, she should have never been condemned to begin with!

Again why do you ignore that the sentenced the rape victim to 200 lashes and focus on the pardon. From your own link


In a special report, the Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Broadcasting_Corporation) channel covered the case in a show widely anticipated by many Saudi audiences.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-14) The show aired a live debate between al-Lahem and Ministry of Justice consultant and former judge Abdul-Mohsen Al-Obaikan.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-15) The victim’s husband participated via phone. The husband defended his wife in a surprising showing of open-mindedness for a man from this part of the world, where rape victims and their families are almost always silent. He explained: "I'm not lacking in manhood or an Arab man's honor for defending a so-called 'cheating wife'," then added, "I feel that in this catastrophe she exercised bad judgment by meeting this man, but how can you [Al-Obaikan] or anyone say she committed adultery?"[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-16) In other interviews he showed further support of his wife and said that "she shocked him when she insisted on pursuing justice although she is facing a harsh penalty." He also expressed his worries over her deteriorating physical and mental health.By late November 2007, she was under effective house arrest and forbidden to speak at the risk of being taken into custody at any time. Her family's movements were being monitored by the religious police and their telephones were tapped.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-17)
Royal pardon[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Qatif_rape_case&action=edit&section=7)]On December 17, 2007, Saudi newspapers reported that King Abdullah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_of_Saudi_Arabia) had issued a pardon for the girl, citing his ultimate authority as monarch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarch) to overrule "discretionary" punishments (punishments not expressly prescribed by Islamic legal canon) in accordance with the public good. However, he maintained that the pardon did not reflect any lack of confidence in the Saudi justice system or the initial verdicts, and in fact the King trusted "that the verdicts are just and fair."[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-18)
Although the pardon was good news for the girl from Qatif, human rights activists voiced concern that it was not a practical solution to the problem, as "the pardon means that she did something wrong and was kindly pardoned later." They called for reform of the law and clear legislation that differentiates between rape and adultery, as there are many similar cases which do not receive such international exposure and not every victim will get a royal pardon afterward.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-19)


You are being an apologist for cruelty. Other Muslim nations condemned her and her family's treatment. The US Department of State which has a huge boner for the Saudi's condemned it.

Errbody but you seems to think her even being charged was bullshit.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 12:40 PM
Exactly.. You do know that most law in KSA is not codified.

In KSA women don't go out at night with men who are not family.. This girl ... the Qatif Girl was apparently blackmailed into going out with this young man....

What you will find in the western websites.. is that they NEVER follow up on the story.. They prefer sensationalism.


Follow up story? That she was pardoned? Dude, she should have never been condemned to begin with!

Again why do you ignore that the sentenced the rape victim to 200 lashes and focus on the pardon. From your own link


In a special report, the Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Broadcasting_Corporation) channel covered the case in a show widely anticipated by many Saudi audiences.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-14) The show aired a live debate between al-Lahem and Ministry of Justice consultant and former judge Abdul-Mohsen Al-Obaikan.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-15) The victimís husband participated via phone. The husband defended his wife in a surprising showing of open-mindedness for a man from this part of the world, where rape victims and their families are almost always silent. He explained: "I'm not lacking in manhood or an Arab man's honor for defending a so-called 'cheating wife'," then added, "I feel that in this catastrophe she exercised bad judgment by meeting this man, but how can you [Al-Obaikan] or anyone say she committed adultery?"[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-16) In other interviews he showed further support of his wife and said that "she shocked him when she insisted on pursuing justice although she is facing a harsh penalty." He also expressed his worries over her deteriorating physical and mental health.By late November 2007, she was under effective house arrest and forbidden to speak at the risk of being taken into custody at any time. Her family's movements were being monitored by the religious police and their telephones were tapped.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-17)
Royal pardon[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Qatif_rape_case&action=edit&section=7)]On December 17, 2007, Saudi newspapers reported that King Abdullah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_of_Saudi_Arabia) had issued a pardon for the girl, citing his ultimate authority as monarch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarch) to overrule "discretionary" punishments (punishments not expressly prescribed by Islamic legal canon) in accordance with the public good. However, he maintained that the pardon did not reflect any lack of confidence in the Saudi justice system or the initial verdicts, and in fact the King trusted "that the verdicts are just and fair."[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-18)
Although the pardon was good news for the girl from Qatif, human rights activists voiced concern that it was not a practical solution to the problem, as "the pardon means that she did something wrong and was kindly pardoned later." They called for reform of the law and clear legislation that differentiates between rape and adultery, as there are many similar cases which do not receive such international exposure and not every victim will get a royal pardon afterward.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_girl_rape_case#cite_note-19)


You are being an apologist for cruelty. Other Muslim nations condemned her and her family's treatment. The US Department of State which has a huge boner for the Saudi's condemned it.

Errbody but you seems to think her even being charged was bullshit.

shaarona
11-17-2013, 12:42 PM
Follow up story? That she was pardoned? Dude, she should have never been condemned to begin with!

Again why do you ignore that the sentenced the rape victim to 200 lashes and focus on the pardon. From your own link




You are being an apologist for cruelty. Other Muslim nations condemned her and her family's treatment. The US Department of State which has a huge boner for the Saudi's condemned it.

Errbody but you seems to think her even being charged was bullshit.

I don't think she should have been charged.. but I'm an American..

Saudi women and girls don't go out with men who are not members of their family.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 12:44 PM
I don't think she should have been charged.. but I'm an American..

Saudi women and girls don't go out with men who are not members of their family.

Then don't go around saying how they are so civilized. Even other Muslims condemned this barbarity.

Captain Obvious
11-17-2013, 12:52 PM
Then don't go around saying how they are so civilized. Even other Muslims condemned this barbarity.

I think what she's saying is that it's part of their culture and maybe that's what she understands about the matter.

I'm not defending anything - I think this stuff is barbaric, I just think shaarona sometimes is misunderstood with really sensitive stuff like this.

shaarona
11-17-2013, 12:54 PM
Then don't go around saying how they are so civilized. Even other Muslims condemned this barbarity.

You know I went to KSA in the early years... when life was not easy in KSA.. We were not missionaries or reformers .. we went to get the oil.

That may be hard for you to understand.. but they have made HUGE progress and its not our job to force our culture, traditions, rule of law upon them. In fact.. the more we PUSH the more they go backwards.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 12:55 PM
You know I went to KSA in the early years... when life was not easy in KSA.. We were not missionaries or reformers .. we went to get the oil.

That may be hard for you to understand.. but they have made HUGE progress and its not our job to force our culture, traditions, rule of law upon them. In fact.. the more we PUSH the more they go backwards.

I'm not saying we push them to do shit. We need to mind our own fucking business. I'm saying you can't sit there and say how they are quite civilized when punishing rape victims is the opposite of this.

shaarona
11-17-2013, 12:59 PM
I'm not saying we push them to do shit. We need to mind our own fucking business. I'm saying you can't sit there and say how they are quite civilized when punishing rape victims is the opposite of this.

There are very civilized.. Do you understand that Saudi men and women don't mix? That is changing gradually.. because Abdullah is a reformer... and the younger clerics understand that what has passed for Sharia law has often been ancient tribal customs.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 01:04 PM
There are very civilized.. Do you understand that Saudi men and women don't mix? That is changing gradually.. because Abdullah is a reformer... and the younger clerics understand that what has passed for Sharia law has often been ancient tribal customs.


They are very rich and cultured you mean. Civilization includes not punishing victims or having levels of citizenship.

I don't care if they every change. I don't care about Russia's anti-gay laws either. I just believing in speaking truth at all times. They can change or not change. I don't live there and I'm not a citizen.