The Brandon Raub Thread

[Codename Section]

Here is the Rutherford Institute's take on the case (you can read Whitehead's Op Ed at Huffpo)

Here is what had him thrown to the ground where his shoulder was cut, handcuffed, and put in a psych ward:

Sharpen up my axe; I’m here to sever heads. From the rock group Swollen Member.

The lyrics in context of the song are about sharpening your mental intellect and your knowledge. No one bothered to listen to the whole song. They just arrested him.

The band never got arrested either.

https://www.rutherford.org/key_cases/key_cases_brandon_raub/



Brandon Raub, a former Marine who has served tours in Iraq and
Afghanistan, was forcibly taken from his home on August 16, 2012, by FBI
agents and police in Chesterfield County, Va. and placed in a
psychiatric ward against his will. His crime? Posting personal political
views and song lyrics to his Facebook page. Outraged onlookers filmed
the arrest and posted the footage to YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KW6_gcQCpg), which has since gone viral, and the public continues to clamor for his release.


Despite this, in a hearing before a special justice on August 20,
government officials disregarded Raub’s explanation that the Facebook
posts were being interpreted out of context, sentencing him up to 30
days’ further confinement in a VA psych ward where he was forced to
undergo psychological evaluations. Brandon was initially being held in
John Randolph Medical Center but was moved to the Veterans Hospital in
Salem, Va., after Special Justice Walter Douglass Stokes for the General
District Court for the City of Hopewell, Va. denied an emergency motion
to stop him from being forcibly transferred. The Salem facility is more
than three hours away from his family, friends and legal team.


Fortunately, in an unexpected ruling handed down on August 23 by
Circuit Court Judge Allan Sharrett, the government’s case against
Brandon Raub was dismissed on the grounds that the petition for Raub’s
detainment “is so devoid of any factual allegations that it could not be
reasonably expected to give rise to a case or controversy.” While The
Rutherford Institute was able to help Raub win his freedom, we must ask
ourselves why this happened in the first place. This stunning display of
government force against an individual expressing his personal views
from the privacy of his own home indicates that the First Amendment is
hanging by a thread in America. For the most up to date information on
Brandon’s case, please click the links below.


http://cdn1.alexanderhiggins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/People-All-Over-The-Country-Are-Just-Disappearing.jpg



Here is his interview with his lawyer, so everything on this is now a matter of record. They are suing the federal government, and already made it past the first attempt by the government to have the case thrown out. There are other vets on this suit but I'd have to ask Alyosha for exact numbers, but it is a crazy high amount.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5dA1N3S9Es


http://www.hangthebankers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bush-obama-raub.jpg

[The Wash]

Rage Against the Machine has more influence than Brandon Raub but they walking the streets.


Hey yo, and dick with this...uggh!
Word is born
Fight the war, fuck the norm
Now I got no patience
So sick of complacence
With the D the E the F the I the A the N the C the E
Mind of a revolutionary
So clear the lane
The finger to the land of the chains
What? The land of the free?
Whoever told you that is your enemy?

Now something must be done
About vengeance, a badge and a gun
'Cause I'll rip the mike, rip the stage, rip the system
I was born to rage against 'em

Now action must be taken
We don't need the key
We'll break in

I've got no patience now
So sick of complacence now
I've got no patience now
So sick of complacence now
Sick of sick of sick of sick of you
Time has come to pay...
Know your enemy!

Come on!
Yes I know my enemies
They're the teachers who taught me to fight me
Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission
Ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite
All of which are American dreams (8 times)
All of which are American dreams


why not arrest them? They spent time with the Zapatistas. Because they are rich revolutionaries, is why.

[Codename Section]

If he committed a crime, that would be different. The FBI called the cops to put him in a psych ward. That means they could not prove he broke a law but wanted to punish him and send a message.

[Codename Section]

In challenging the government’s actions as unlawful and an egregious
abuse of power, Institute attorneys hope to shed light on and put a stop
to what appears to be a growing problem in terms of a governmental
system seemingly targeting Americans—especially military veterans—for
expressing their discontent about the state of affairs in America. Since
coming to Raub’s defense, The Rutherford Institute has been contacted
by military veterans across the country recounting similar incidents.
(More than 20,000 civil commitments were carried out in 2011 in Virginia
alone.) In announcing their intention to file a civil suit against
government officials, Rutherford Institute attorneys plan to take issue
with the manner in which Virginia’s civil commitment statutes are being
used to silence individuals engaged in lawfully exercising their free
speech rights. Under these laws, a person may only be involuntarily
committed upon clear and convincing evidence that he or she has a mental
illness, that there is substantial likelihood that the person will
cause serious physical harm to himself or others in the near future, and
that there is evidence of recent, actual behavior of causing,
attempting, or threatening harm to others. Anthony Troy and Brian Fowler
with Troutman Sanders LLP of Richmond, Va., will be acting as affiliate
attorneys for The Rutherford Institute in preparation of the civil
lawsuit.


“Brandon Raub’s case exposed the seedy underbelly of a governmental
system that seems to be targeting Americans—especially military
veterans—for expressing their discontent over America’s rapid transition
to a police state,” said John W. Whitehead, president of The Rutherford
Institute. “As we are learning, Brandon Raub is not the first veteran
to be targeted for speaking out against the government, detained against
his will—despite having threatened no one, and isolated from his
family, friends and attorneys. Hopefully, by holding officials
accountable, we can ensure that Brandon is the last to suffer in this
way.”


https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/on_the_front_lines/rutherford_institute_attorneys_to_file_civil_lawsu it_over_wrongful_arrest_d

[The Wash]

That's just great. Glad to know that I can only speak my mind in my own home.

[Ravi]

He was Baker acted, not arrested. Cops did him a favor. It would have much harder on him to have arrested him.

[The Wash]

He was Baker acted, not arrested. Cops did him a favor. It would have much harder on him to have arrested him.

What charges?

[Dr. Who]

He was Baker acted, not arrested. Cops did him a favor. It would have much harder on him to have arrested him.
What the heck. Don't you believe in freedom of speech? Can't a person believe what they believe without being taken for someone who is mentally ill? There are millions of people on the internet speaking their minds. Does quoting the lyrics from a song free to everyone else in the country to listen to, constitute intent to cause harm? The only reason that this man was taken into custody and confined in a mental institution was because someone might actually believe that he was telling the truth. This is not about protecting citizens, it is about preventing people from calling certain political agendas into doubt.

[jillian]

If he committed a crime, that would be different. The FBI called the cops to put him in a psych ward. That means they could not prove he broke a law but wanted to punish him and send a message.
Codename Section what do you have to wait for someone to do before you acknowledge they're dangerous?

i'm not asking because i have an answer to the question, btw.

[The Xl]

What charges?

Charges? Ain't nobody got time for that.

[The Xl]

@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) what do you have to wait for someone to do before you acknowledge they're dangerous?

i'm not asking because i have an answer to the question, btw.

If reciting lyrics to a song is considered dangerous, then pretty much everyone should be in prison.

[jillian]

If reciting lyrics to a song is considered dangerous, then pretty much everyone should be in prison.

there are those that think he did more than that. but ok.. quoting lyrics… ok. is that enough for a warrant? what acts, if any, should accompany the sentiments contained in the words before we agree a person is dangerous?

and what level of seditious writing give government the right to surveil, if any?

[GrassrootsConservative]

If reciting lyrics to a song is considered dangerous, then pretty much everyone should be in prison.

And those dude's from OF would go straight to death row.

[GrassrootsConservative]

there are those that think he did more than that. but ok.. quoting lyrics… ok. is that enough for a warrant? what acts, if any, should accompany the sentiments contained in the words before we agree a person is dangerous?

and what level of seditious writing give government the right to surveil, if any?

These are the questions that prove politics to have some grey areas, and also why things should be up to the states.

That's what's wrong with Federalizing everything, and why state's rights need to be protected. Every situation is different.

Do you disagree?

[Chris]

Outrageous. He's no more threat than any of us voicing our opinions are. Government's running scared.


Someone must have been telling lies about Josef K., he knew he had done nothing wrong but, one morning, he was arrested....
~Franz Kafka, The Trial

[Codename Section]

@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) what do you have to wait for someone to do before you acknowledge they're dangerous?

i'm not asking because i have an answer to the question, btw.

We're all dangerous, jillian. I acknowledge that every human being is dangerous. My current boss who I have outweighed now by a good 60 lbs if not more thought I was someone else in her house and put a hurting into me. If you saw her walking down the street with her briefcase bag you wouldn't believe how strong or dangerous she can be when threatened.

Before you initiate force against another human being and in this case "you" I mean the entity with the monopoly on force, the government, they should be certain the individual has broken a law or has initiated action that will lay the footwork for breaking a law when that action is also illegal.

I don't want to live in the Minority Report world of "precrimes".

For example, the moment the Tsarnaev brothers bought the pressure cooker and remote devices they were intending to do harm to innocent people. When they were talking about it amongst themselves there may have been one nice person, some nice stranger on the bus that said something and converted their hearts.

Brandon did none of that. If you knew him you would know he couldn't hurt a single innocent person. You'd know that he's not the type to make others pay for any anger he has at being lied to. I listen and quote Rage Against the Machine because I'm angry.

Do you want someone locking me up because I do that? Every day I post on here as a vet I get anxiety because I think something I said, coupled with "who" I am will have someone come for me. I straddle that line between telling people what I feel and my own fear of saying too much. I want to let people understand "us" and be that human being behind the label "vet".

I'm dangerous. So are you if you think someone would hurt your kid. Probably even more than me. Should someone lock you up before that happens? I don't think so.


But "mom" thank you for asking nicely and being understanding. It took a lot for me to talk about this. I expect your friends to say things that will hit my sweet spot. I just want you to know that my hands shake when I typed this just now.

[Chris]

there are those that think he did more than that. but ok.. quoting lyrics… ok. is that enough for a warrant? what acts, if any, should accompany the sentiments contained in the words before we agree a person is dangerous?

and what level of seditious writing give government the right to surveil, if any?


Take a stand for a change, jillian, give us your statist views, don't hold back.

[Ravi]

What the heck. Don't you believe in freedom of speech? Can't a person believe what they believe without being taken for someone who is mentally ill? There are millions of people on the internet speaking their minds. Does quoting the lyrics from a song free to everyone else in the country to listen to, constitute intent to cause harm? The only reason that this man was taken into custody and confined in a mental institution was because someone might actually believe that he was telling the truth. This is not about protecting citizens, it is about preventing people from calling certain political agendas into doubt.
We only know the story from one side. IF you get violent when the cops are questioning you then it's perfectly reasonable to expect that the cops would arrest you. In this case, they only Baker acted him.

Do you knee-jerk on a regular basis, Dr. Dubya?

[Codename Section]

there are those that think he did more than that. but ok.. quoting lyrics… ok. is that enough for a warrant? what acts, if any, should accompany the sentiments contained in the words before we agree a person is dangerous?

and what level of seditious writing give government the right to surveil, if any?

Actually, no, there aren't. A federal judge looked at all the evidence against him and not only threw it out by took the FBI to task. He is suing the federal government right now and yet another judge in August already said that there was evidence to proceed in their complaint that people were being targeted merely on speech alone.

There are those who could say more about the case and what the government wishes to settle at but they probably can't.

[Codename Section]

We only know the story from one side. IF you get violent when the cops are questioning you then it's perfectly reasonable to expect that the cops would arrest you. In this case, they only Baker acted him.

Do you knee-jerk on a regular basis, Dr. Dubya?

Except you can google the video and watch it in its entirety. He was polite the entire time. Three people recorded it.

[Codename Section]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox1Y51_46F0

[Chris]

We only know the story from one side. IF you get violent when the cops are questioning you then it's perfectly reasonable to expect that the cops would arrest you. In this case, they only Baker acted him.

Do you knee-jerk on a regular basis, Dr. Dubya?



Nice innuendo, ravi, you'd give the other side if you knew it, instead you speculate and try to justify.

[Ravi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox1Y51_46F0

Yeah, I watched your video. But it doesn't show what happened before.

[Ravi]

Nice innuendo, ravi, you'd give the other side if you knew it, instead you speculate and try to justify.

Nah, that's you.

[Codename Section]

I'm sure by the time all is said and done we will all be considered a danger which is why I'm thinking of leaving for Belize.

[Codename Section]

Ravi believe what you want. I'm not trying to convince you. Jillian seemed to want to discuss it.

[Chris]

Nah, that's you.

So you do know what happened and you're just playing coy? Baloney, if you knew, you'd have said. You're just being negative because your precious state is being shown unjust.

[Dr. Who]

We only know the story from one side. IF you get violent when the cops are questioning you then it's perfectly reasonable to expect that the cops would arrest you. In this case, they only Baker acted him.

Do you knee-jerk on a regular basis, Dr. Dubya?

Ravi - I believe what I believe, as you believe as you do. The First Amendment says that I can say what I want. I don't invite sedition. It is the responsibility of every citizen - no every person on the planet to question government, because if you do not question then you can easily be a lamb to the slaughter. It doesn't matter whether what I say is right, it matters that we as people consider the potential for our government to be duplicitous and serve the agenda of others. The only watchers of government are the people. A citizen should never be so comfortable with their government that they do not scrutinize their actions.

Furthermore, I am not, nor have ever been a Dubya supporter. I am a Liberal/Socialist, so - No. Suffice it to say, I cannot be a partisan and ignore the obvious.

[Ravi]

Ravi - I believe what I believe, as you believe as you do. The First Amendment says that I can say what I want. I don't invite sedition. It is the responsibility of every citizen - no every person on the planet to question government, because if you do not question then you can easily be a lamb to the slaughter. It doesn't matter whether what I say is right, it matters that we as people consider the potential for our government to be duplicitous and serve the agenda of others. The only watchers of government are the people. A citizen should never be so comfortable with their government that they do not scrutinize their actions.

Furthermore, I am not, nor have ever been a Dubya supporter. I am a Liberal/Socialist, so - No. Suffice it to say, I cannot be a partisan and ignore the obvious.
That's all fine and dandy, but you still knee-jerk all over the place.

[Chris]

Here you go, ravi, and jillian, from the Rutherford Institute, a civil rights group, Key Cases: Brandon Raub (https://www.rutherford.org/key_cases/key_cases_brandon_raub/)


Brandon Raub, a former Marine who has served tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, was forcibly taken from his home on August 16, 2012, by FBI agents and police in Chesterfield County, Va. and placed in a psychiatric ward against his will. His crime? Posting personal political views and song lyrics to his Facebook page. Outraged onlookers filmed the arrest and posted the footage to YouTube, which has since gone viral, and the public continues to clamor for his release.

Despite this, in a hearing before a special justice on August 20, government officials disregarded Raub’s explanation that the Facebook posts were being interpreted out of context, sentencing him up to 30 days’ further confinement in a VA psych ward where he was forced to undergo psychological evaluations. Brandon was initially being held in John Randolph Medical Center but was moved to the Veterans Hospital in Salem, Va., after Special Justice Walter Douglass Stokes for the General District Court for the City of Hopewell, Va. denied an emergency motion to stop him from being forcibly transferred. The Salem facility is more than three hours away from his family, friends and legal team.

Fortunately, in an unexpected ruling handed down on August 23 by Circuit Court Judge Allan Sharrett, the government’s case against Brandon Raub was dismissed on the grounds that the petition for Raub’s detainment “is so devoid of any factual allegations that it could not be reasonably expected to give rise to a case or controversy.” While The Rutherford Institute was able to help Raub win his freedom, we must ask ourselves why this happened in the first place. This stunning display of government force against an individual expressing his personal views from the privacy of his own home indicates that the First Amendment is hanging by a thread in America. For the most up to date information on Brandon’s case, please click the links below.

[Dr. Who]

That's all fine and dandy, but you still knee-jerk all over the place.

Knee-jerk would imply that this is a sudden epiphany. No, it is a long held belief, which just happens to contrast with your own.

[Chris]

This is from his Facebook page: The Truth: Facebook Post by Brandon Raub (http://www.infowars.com/the-truth-facebook-post-by-brandon-raub/)


The following text is from a copy of a Facebook post that Brandon Raub made in 2011. The text was given to CBS 6 by Raub’s mother.

The Truth
by Brandon J Raub on Friday, November 11, 2011 at 10:00 am

America has lost itself. We have lost who we truly are. This is the land of the free and the home of the brave.

This is the land of Thomas Jefferson.

This is the land of Benjamin Franklin.

This is the land of Fredrick Douglas.

This is the land of Smedley Butler.

This is the land John F. Kennedy.

This is the land of Martin Luther King.

This is the land where the cowboy wins. This is the land where you can start from the bottom and get to the top. This is the land where regardless of you race and ethnicity you can succeed and build a better life for you and your family. This is the land where every race coexists peacefully. This is the land where justice wins. This is the land where liberty dwells. This is the land where freedom reigns. This is the land where we help the poor, and people help each other. This is land where people beat racism.

The Federal Reserve is wrong. They have designed a system based off of greed and fear. They designed a system to crush the middle class between taxes and inflation. This is wrong, and it is unjust. It is wrong.

We have allowed ourselves to be deceived and seduced by the powers of the printing press. It is not a good system. It discourages saving: the foundation for all stable economic activity. The Federal Reserve is artificially manipulating interest rates and creating phony economic data.

This thing has deceived our entire nation.

They created it in 1913. They also created the income tax in 1913. They encouraged the growth of debt so they can tax you on it. There is interest on the debt. Your government is in bed with these people. They want to enslave you to the government so that they can control every aspect of your lives. It is an empire based on lies. They operate of greed and fear.

There is a better way. It’s called freedom. Freedom is called a lot of things. But there is a true meaning. It means very simply that you have the right to do whatever you want as long as you are not infringing on the freedoms of other people.

I firmly believe that God set America apart from the other nations of the world. He saved a place where people could come to to escape bad systems of goverment. This system we have created works. It really works.

There is evil going on all around the world. The United States was meant to lead the charge against injustice, but through our example not our force. People do not respond to having liberty and freedom forced on them.

Men and Women follow courage. They follow leadership, and courage. Our example has paved the way for people all around the world to change their forms of government.

Force is not the way because liberty is a powerful concept. The idea that men can govern themselves is the basis for every just form of government.

We can govern ourselves. We do not need to be governed by men who want to install a one world banking system. These men have machine hearts. Machine and unnatural hearts.

They have blocked out the possibility of a better world. They fear human progress. They have monopolies on everything.

This life can be free and beautiful. There are enough resources on this earth to support the world’s population. There are enough resources on this earth to feed everyone. There is enough land for everyone to own their own land and farm, and produce their own energy.

These people have been hiding technology. There are ways to create power easily. There is technology that can provide free cheap power for everyone. There are farming techniques that can feed the entire world.

The Bill of Rights is being systematically dismantled. Men have spilled their blood for those rights.

Your sons and daughters, your brothers and sisters, and Americas best young men and women are losing their limbs. They are losing their lives. They are losing the hearts. They do not know why they are fighting. They are killing. And they do not know why.

They have done some extraordinary acts. Their deeds go before them. But these wars are lies. They are lies. They deceived our entire nation with terrorism. They have gotten us to hand them our rights. Our Rights! Men died for those rights!

September Eleventh was an inside job. They blew up a third building in broad daylight. Building 7.

Your leaders betrayed you.

You elected an aristocracy. They are beholden to special interests. They were brainwashed through the Council on Foreign Relations. Your leaders are planning to merge the United States into a one world banking system. They want to put computer chips in you.

These men have evil hearts. They have tricked you into supporting corporate fascism. We gave them the keys to our country. We were not vigilant with our republic.

There is hope. BUT WE MUST TAKE OUR REPUBLIC BACK.

[Mister D]

Knee-jerk would imply that this is a sudden epiphany. No, it is a long held belief, which just happens to contrast with your own.

Knee-jerk all over the place? What does that even mean? Dr. Dubya? Why does @Ravi (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=698) feel compelled to invent a background for other members?

[Dr. Who]

Knee-jerk all over the place? What does that even mean? Dr. Dubya? What does @Ravi (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=698) feel compelled to invent a background for other members?

I don't know. Have you ever know me to be a Dubya supporter? I'm not generally the knee-jerk type - not perfect mind you.

[Chris]

Knee-jerk all over the place? What does that even mean? Dr. Dubya? Why does @Ravi (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=698) feel compelled to invent a background for other members?

Trolling with distractions is all it is. By inventing them it derails the topic with defending against it and commenting on it.

[Mister D]

I don't know. Have you ever know me to be a Dubya supporter? I'm not generally the knee-jerk type - not perfect mind you.

Knee-jerk wasn't even properly used unless she was suggesting you often go off on anti-government rants which isn't the case. Or perhaps because you dared wonder just how trustworthy this government is you must be one of those crazy libertarian tea partiers? What's next? You're a racist? :rollseyes:

[Mister D]

Trolling with distractions is all it is. By inventing them it derails the topic with defending against it and commenting on it.

Honestly, I think some people can only think in terms of strictly defined and overly simplified categories. Everyone is then shoe horned into them. Even then how does Who become a Bush supporter?

[Dr. Who]

Knee-jerk wasn't even properly used unless she was suggesting you often go off on anti-government rants which isn't the case. Or perhaps because you dared wonder just how trustworthy this government is you must be one of those crazy libertarian tea partiers? What's next? You're a racist? :rollseyes:LOL, I'm probably more likely to do the former than be the latter. I make no secret of the fact that I believe that government is unduly influenced by corporations. If that makes me seditious, so be it, but I'm not a lone voice in the wind. I'd rather believe the worst and be disproved, than believe the best and find myself in a labor camp somewhere wondering what happened.

[Codename Section]

Knee-jerk wasn't even properly used unless she was suggesting you often go off on anti-government rants which isn't the case. Or perhaps because you dared wonder just how trustworthy this government is you must be one of those crazy libertarian tea partiers? What's next? You're a racist? :rollseyes:

:(

[Mister D]

:(

Meant sarcastically. :smiley:

[jillian]

Take a stand for a change, jillian, give us your statist views, don't hold back.

keep trolling threads with anti-gubmint hyperbole snf pretend libertarian BS, chris... don't hold back.

[jillian]

We're all dangerous, @jillian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=719). I acknowledge that every human being is dangerous.

ok... but not every human being gives reasonable suspicion to look further at their activities. and not every human being gives sufficient reason for probably cause and the issuance of a warrant. there is a continuum between interfering with individual rights and the obligation to maintain a safe society.

so what is the line?

as for it hitting your "sweet spot", there are a lot of issues that hit people's "sweet spots"... i doubt we can keep people from raising those issues. at least not here where the whole point is to talk about things. if you think someone is being disrespectful (and i'd suggest you look at the way i'm spoken to by certain people before you decide what disrespectful is) then point it out.

[The Wash]

ok... but not every human being gives reasonable suspicion to look further at their activities. and not every human being gives sufficient reason for probably cause and the issuance of a warrant. there is a continuum between interfering with individual rights and the obligation to maintain a safe society.

so what is the line?

as for it hitting your "sweet spot", there are a lot of issues that hit people's "sweet spots"... i doubt we can keep people from raising those issues. at least not here where the whole point is to talk about things. if you think someone is being disrespectful (and i'd suggest you look at the way i'm spoken to by certain people before you decide what disrespectful is) then point it out.


Stop and Frisk is what you get when you make assumptions about what people have the potential to do. Discrimination of enforcement. The Constitution protects our right to speak, assemble, and even to gather the states and legally change things if we choose.

People make assumptions that are false. Because we are "dangerous", ie "have combat skills" doesn't mean we are willing to use them on others.

[Chris]

keep trolling threads with anti-gubmint hyperbole snf pretend libertarian BS, chris... don't hold back.

You're cute when you lie, jillian. Poor thing.

[Chris]

ok... but not every human being gives reasonable suspicion to look further at their activities. and not every human being gives sufficient reason for probably cause and the issuance of a warrant. there is a continuum between interfering with individual rights and the obligation to maintain a safe society.

....



You did read the post where it was announced the court had thrown the case out for being frivolous in its claims, didn't you. Must not have, otherwise why the continued innuendo?

[Chris]

And everyone has had the chance to read the facebook posting by Raub, it was not threatening, it was not treasonous, it showed a deep concern for a country losing its grip on liberty to statism, to the police state writ large, from local police to NSA. A lot of use post about the same issues.

[The Wash]

And everyone has had the chance to read the facebook posting by Raub, it was not threatening, it was not treasonous, it showed a deep concern for a country losing its grip on liberty to statism, to the police state writ large, from local police to NSA. A lot of use post about the same issues.

Yep. People get it though. They know the score. The only ones that don't are religionists and you can't convince them anyway.

[Chris]

Yep. People get it though. They know the score. The only ones that don't are religionists and you can't convince them anyway.

And statism is a religion.

http://i.snag.gy/Tzw8M.jpg

[Terminal Lance]

Anyone who knows Brandon knows he's the last person to want to hurt another human being. What they did to him was wrong.

[Dr. Who]

Honestly, I think some people can only think in terms of strictly defined and overly simplified categories. Everyone is then shoe horned into them. Even then how does Who become a Bush supporter?
Arrggh! Never. I would have to tear up my membership in the liberal/socialist society and hang my head in shame. BTW Bush was not the President, Dick Cheney was. Bush was just a goofy avatar.

[Adelaide]

This was obviously excessive on the part of law enforcement and an abuse of mental health related laws, to say the least. No one should fear voicing their opinion on how the government is behaving and in the case of the song lyrics, a simple Google search would have shown what it was. As pointed out earlier, many people post lyrics on venues like Facebook and (formerly) Myspace. If we start arresting people for something like that, then most of my generation should either be in prison or a mental health institution. Fuck, I was posting Anti-Flag lyrics when I was in my teens so I guess that means I should be on a no-fly list because I didn't support the Bush presidency.

It definitely looks and feels like they were trying to make some kind of convoluted point to current and former service members. It would be one thing if a person were making a real threat - emphasis on real. This didn't even come close. It would be one thing if someone were releasing classified information. This wasn't the case. It was simply an abuse of his civil liberties (and the judges involved seem to agree) and I hope that he succeeds in suing the government.

It really feels like the US government is out of control, and this is just one example. Veterans and active service members shouldn't fear of arrest, mental health holds, or discharges because they voice a political opinion. It seems especially insulting considering the sacrifices they make for their country.