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Ravi
11-13-2013, 10:05 AM
This should help drive any remaining Catholics from the GOP.


Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) said Tuesday that some of the pope's statements "sounded kind of liberal," but assured CNN's Jake Tapper that she wouldn't necessarily trust her ears nor the "lamestream media (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sarah-palin-blames-lamestream-media-and-racist-david-gregory-for-newt-s-political-crisis-video)" until she did her "own homework" on the matter.

"Having read through media outlets, he's had some statements that to me sounded kind of liberal, has taken me aback, has kind of surprised me,"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sarah-palin-surprised-by-pope-francis-liberal-sounding-statements

Mainecoons
11-13-2013, 10:07 AM
Huh?

Talk about grasping at straws, this is a stellar effort on your part, Ravi.

Amazing how much you folks fear Palin that you constantly come up with tripe like this.

junie
11-13-2013, 10:10 AM
Six months into his papacy, Pope Francis sent shock waves through the Roman Catholic church on Thursday with the publication of his remarks that the church had grown “obsessed” with abortion, gay marriage and contraception...

His surprising comments came in a lengthy interview in which he criticized the church for putting dogma before love, and for prioritizing moral doctrines over serving the poor and marginalized. He articulated his vision of an inclusive church, a “home for all” — which is a striking contrast with his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, the doctrinal defender who envisioned a smaller, purer church.


Francis told the interviewer, a fellow Jesuit: “It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.



“We have to find a new balance,” the pope continued, “otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”



The pope’s interview did not change church doctrine or policies, but it instantly changed its tone. His words evoked gratitude and hope from many liberal Catholics who had felt left out in the cold during the papacies of Benedict and his predecessor, John Paul II, which together lasted 35 years. Some lapsed Catholics suggested on social media a return to the church...


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 10:10 AM
The Pope is antiabortion. That hasn't driven them from voting Democrat in New England. I think this is a flawed argument.

jillian
11-13-2013, 10:11 AM
This should help drive any remaining Catholics from the GOP.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sarah-palin-surprised-by-pope-francis-liberal-sounding-statements

you have to give them credit... they certainly don't care what anyone thinks of them.... lol.... even if there are only 10 people left who listen to their nonsense.

junie
11-13-2013, 10:13 AM
Huh?

Talk about grasping at straws, this is a stellar effort on your part, Ravi.

Amazing how much you folks fear Palin that you constantly come up with tripe like this.



this tripe came straight from palin's mouth and now it's official, the Pope is a Liberal! lol

jillian
11-13-2013, 10:14 AM
Huh?

Talk about grasping at straws, this is a stellar effort on your part, Ravi.

Amazing how much you folks fear Palin that you constantly come up with tripe like this.

how is it grasping at straws to point out palin's stupidity? you're the ones who think she's worth listening to. we'll just sit back and laugh at her.

shaarona
11-13-2013, 10:15 AM
Huh?

Talk about grasping at straws, this is a stellar effort on your part, Ravi.

Amazing how much you folks fear Palin that you constantly come up with tripe like this.

Don't you find Palin amusing?

Politicizing the Pope as a "liberal" is simply oral diarrhea.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 10:18 AM
how is it grasping at straws to point out palin's stupidity? you're the ones who think she's worth listening to. we'll just sit back and laugh at her.

We do? Who keeps posting about Palin? lol

junie
11-13-2013, 10:19 AM
“We have a great pope,” said Father Spadaro in a phone interview from his office, surrounded by Italian journalists. “There is a big vision, not a big shift. His big vision is to see the church in the middle of the persons who need to be healed. It is in the middle of the world.”


The pope’s words are likely to have repercussions in a church whose bishops and priests in many countries, including the United States, have often seemed to make combating abortion, gay marriage and contraception their top public policy priorities. Francis said that those teachings have to be presented in a larger context.



...


From the outset of his papacy in March, Francis, who is 76, has chosen to use the global spotlight to focus on the church’s mandate to serve the poor and oppressed. He has washed the feet of juvenile prisoners, visited a center for refugees and hugged disabled pilgrims at his audiences. His pastoral presence and humble gestures have made him wildly popular among American Catholics, according to a recent Pew survey (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/09/12/six-months-into-papacy-large-majority-of-catholics-continue-to-express-favorable-view-of-pope-francis/).

...

The interview is the first time Francis has explained the reasoning behind both his actions and omissions. He also expanded on the comments he made about homosexuality in July, on an airplane returning to Rome from Rio de Janeiro, where he had celebrated World Youth Day. In a remark then that produced headlines worldwide, the new pope said, “Who am I to judge? (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/30/world/europe/pope-francis-gay-priests.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)” At the time, some questioned whether he was referring only to gays in the priesthood, but in this interview he made clear that he had been speaking of gay men and lesbians in general.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html

Cigar
11-13-2013, 10:26 AM
This should help drive any remaining Catholics from the GOP.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sarah-palin-surprised-by-pope-francis-liberal-sounding-statements

Imagine that ... a Pope who actually cares about poor people, who the hell does he think he is, what Book is that idiot Reading?

That Fucking Communist Socialistic Bastard :rollseyes:

Ravi
11-13-2013, 10:26 AM
this tripe came straight from palin's mouth and now it's official, the Pope is a Liberal! lol

Yep, and to Catholics, that means pretty much that God is a liberal. If there was any doubt. :thup:

Cigar
11-13-2013, 10:28 AM
We do? Who keeps posting about Palin? lol

Each and every time she opens her mouth and says something stupid ... it will get reported; it's a Celebrity Thang.

No one is going to ask your permission. :wink:

Chris
11-13-2013, 10:30 AM
you have to give them credit... they certainly don't care what anyone thinks of them.... lol.... even if there are only 10 people left who listen to their nonsense.

How many listen to your snarky nonsense, jillian? Not counting your tag-team acolytes.

Chris
11-13-2013, 10:32 AM
Yep, and to Catholics, that means pretty much that God is a liberal. If there was any doubt. :thup:

Are you Catholic to say this?

My parents are. I've asked them, must you follow what the Pope says. No, they answered, he's not God. We follow what we believe God wants.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 10:35 AM
Are you Catholic to say this?

My parents are. I've asked them, must you follow what the Pope says. No, they answered, he's not God. We follow what we believe God wants.The pope is infallible. Your parents are faux-Catholics.

Chris
11-13-2013, 10:36 AM
The pope is infallible. Your parents are faux-Catholics.

Nice snarky insult for something you obviously have no clue about. Apparently you have no desire to discuss the topic. It's just another flame bait from you.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 10:38 AM
Nice snarky insult for something you obviously have no clue about. Apparently you have no desire to discuss the topic. It's just another flame bait from you.
What you posted means your parents aren't honest Catholics. Otherwise, they would not have made such a statement.

Captain Obvious
11-13-2013, 10:46 AM
Oh yeah, I'm just riveted to what this bubble-headed bimbo has to say about the pope.

I'm clinging to her every statement.

:rollseyes:

Chris
11-13-2013, 10:50 AM
What you posted means your parents aren't honest Catholics. Otherwise, they would not have made such a statement.

From http://www.catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility:


Papal Infallibility

The Catholic Church’s teaching on papal infallibility is one which is generally misunderstood by those outside the Church. In particular, Fundamentalists and other "Bible Christians" often confuse the charism of papal "infallibility" with "impeccability." They imagine Catholics believe the pope cannot sin. Others, who avoid this elementary blunder, think the pope relies on some sort of amulet or magical incantation when an infallible definition is due.

....


You've blundered again. Poor ravi.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 10:55 AM
From http://www.catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility:




You've blundered again. Poor ravi.That doesn't relate to what your parents said. Like I said, they are faux Catholics.

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 11:09 AM
I'm Catholic. The Pope said to focus on the positive which is sharing the Gospels, spreading peace, caring for the poor, and that while the church is still anti-gay marriage and anti-abortion don't allow your disagreements with people who feel these things are "right" to deter from the message of Christ's love and mercy for all.

It is "liberal" in the classical liberal sense. I'm not uncomfortable with that label.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 11:10 AM
I'm Catholic. The Pope said to focus on the positive which is sharing the Gospels, spreading peace, caring for the poor, and that while the church is still anti-gay marriage and anti-abortion don't allow your disagreements with people who feel these things are "right" to deter from the message of Christ's love and mercy for all.

It is "liberal" in the classical liberal sense. I'm not uncomfortable with that label.

That's a good synopsis of what the Pope actually said.

Green Arrow
11-13-2013, 11:31 AM
The Pope is apolitical. He holds positions that are in common with Republicans, with Democrats, and with neither. To try and turn him into a political entity is wrong and dishonest, imo.

Also, as a non-Catholic, I love this Pope. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Dude's legit.

Captain Obvious
11-13-2013, 11:32 AM
The Pope is apolitical. He holds positions that are in common with Republicans, with Democrats, and with neither. To try and turn him into a political entity is wrong and dishonest, imo.

Also, as a non-Catholic, I love this Pope. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Dude's legit.

Which means the Religious Right will turn their backs on him at some point.

Chris
11-13-2013, 11:32 AM
The Pope is apolitical. He holds positions that are in common with Republicans, with Democrats, and with neither. To try and turn him into a political entity is wrong and dishonest, imo.

Also, as a non-Catholic, I love this Pope. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Dude's legit.



But it's what partisans do. They know no better.

Green Arrow
11-13-2013, 11:34 AM
Which means the Religious Right will turn their backs on him at some point.

Meh. (Most) Evangelical Christians have always been anti-Pope, as far as I'm aware.

nathanbforrest45
11-13-2013, 11:38 AM
The Pope is a Jesuit. Jesuits are the liberal arm of the Church. Ergo the Pope is a liberal.

Mainecoons
11-13-2013, 11:44 AM
I'm an ex Catholic and I agree with Green Arrow, this is the best Pope we've seen in a long time. He's a populist for sure and a real man of the people. All those fat clerics in the Vatican can't be enjoying him much.

jillian
11-13-2013, 11:47 AM
I'm an ex Catholic and I agree with Green Arrow, this is the best Pope we've seen in a long time. He's a populist for sure and a real man of the people. All those fat clerics in the Vatican can't be enjoying him much.

as an outsider, i think he's a good and decent man who actually walks the walk. i liked john paul, too. benedict, not so much.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 11:50 AM
Meh. (Most) Evangelical Christians have always been anti-Pope, as far as I'm aware.

Many, yes

Green Arrow
11-13-2013, 11:53 AM
as an outsider, i think he's a good and decent man who actually walks the walk. i liked john paul, too. benedict, not so much.

This is pretty much my thoughts. I loved JPII, didn't care for Benedict at all, but Pope Francis is shaping up to top JPII as my favorite. He's gone even farther than JPII to reject a lot of the pomp and frivolity that is traditional of Popes, and is doing more to reach out to and help the poor.

jillian
11-13-2013, 11:58 AM
This is pretty much my thoughts. I loved JPII, didn't care for Benedict at all, but Pope Francis is shaping up to top JPII as my favorite. He's gone even farther than JPII to reject a lot of the pomp and frivolity that is traditional of Popes, and is doing more to reach out to and help the poor.

agreed as to all. he also seems to be reaching out to people in a way to make their treatment kinder and the "flock" less judgmental.

i loved when he called the young gay man and told him G-d loved all his children.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 01:29 PM
Which means the Religious Right will turn their backs on him at some point.
They already did.

Chris
11-13-2013, 01:31 PM
Religious Right? Some of you all are so stuck in the 90s.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 01:31 PM
But it's what partisans do. They know no better.

Yes, Palin is certainly a partisan. Odd that you're a fan of hers.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 01:32 PM
Yes, Palin is certainly a partisan. Odd that you're a fan of hers.

Since when?

Chris
11-13-2013, 01:33 PM
Yes, Palin is certainly a partisan. Odd that you're a fan of hers.

Palin is partly partisan, but a lot of her message is more popular, perhaps too populist.

killianr1
11-13-2013, 01:34 PM
I think we should lock Pelosi and Palin in a room and just see what happens.


“Every week we don’t pass a Stimulus package, 500 million Americans lose their jobs.” (http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/2424120-500-million-americans-lose-jobs-every-month) ...Pelosi

“We have to pass the (health care) bill so you can find out what is in it”. (http://www.deseretnews.com/top/46/288/Top-10-quotes-of-the-year-We-have-to-pass-the-health-care-bill-so-you-can-find-out-what-is-in.html).....Pelosi (and obviously even Obama didn't read it)

“And so, it was 165 years ago, 165 years ago. Imagine the courage it took for those women to go to Seneca Falls and do what they did there, to even leave home without their husband’s permission, or father’s, or whoever it was. To go to Seneca Falls, and to paraphrase what our founders said in the Constitution of the United States: they said the truths that are self-evident, that every man and woman, that men and women were created equal and that we must go forward in recognition of that.”....Pelosi (Declaration of Independence-not the Constitution)

jillian
11-13-2013, 01:35 PM
I think we should lock Pelosi and Palin in a room and just see what happens.


“Every week we don’t pass a Stimulus package, 500 million Americans lose their jobs.” (http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/2424120-500-million-americans-lose-jobs-every-month) ...Pelosi

“We have to pass the (health care) bill so you can find out what is in it”. (http://www.deseretnews.com/top/46/288/Top-10-quotes-of-the-year-We-have-to-pass-the-health-care-bill-so-you-can-find-out-what-is-in.html).....Pelosi (and obviously even Obama didn't read it)

“And so, it was 165 years ago, 165 years ago. Imagine the courage it took for those women to go to Seneca Falls and do what they did there, to even leave home without their husband’s permission, or father’s, or whoever it was. To go to Seneca Falls, and to paraphrase what our founders said in the Constitution of the United States: they said the truths that are self-evident, that every man and woman, that men and women were created equal and that we must go forward in recognition of that.”....Pelosi (Declaration of Independence-not the Constitution)


false equivalencies...

Chris
11-13-2013, 01:35 PM
Charge a buck a seat to watch that ^^^ and you'd clear the national debt.

Chris
11-13-2013, 01:37 PM
false equivalencies...

He quotes Pelosi and you call what she said false equivalences...mmm, OK.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 01:37 PM
Palin is partly partisan, but a lot of her message is more popular, perhaps too populist.

definitely populist

Ravi
11-13-2013, 02:02 PM
Palin doesn't appeal to ordinary people. She appeals to right wing nuts. She's no populist.

jillian
11-13-2013, 02:05 PM
Palin doesn't appeal to ordinary people. She appeals to right wing nuts. She's no populist.

i don't know... there's a populist message in there... it's just for really angry, disaffected and extremist types.

kilgram
11-13-2013, 02:06 PM
This is pretty much my thoughts. I loved JPII, didn't care for Benedict at all, but Pope Francis is shaping up to top JPII as my favorite. He's gone even farther than JPII to reject a lot of the pomp and frivolity that is traditional of Popes, and is doing more to reach out to and help the poor.
I liked John Paul I, who was murdered because he was too much liberal and substituted by a more conservative John Paul II.

killianr1
11-13-2013, 02:07 PM
false equivalencies...

How so...it appears lacking in education and common sense. Or are you trying to say Pelosi is just trying to be a comedian, and it's all an attempt at humor.

Chris
11-13-2013, 02:08 PM
Palin doesn't appeal to ordinary people. She appeals to right wing nuts. She's no populist.

Look up what populist means, ravi, learn something.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 02:09 PM
i don't know... there's a populist message in there... it's just for really angry, disaffected and extremist types.

There are some many extremists in your world one wonders how they could all be extreme. :smiley:

Chris
11-13-2013, 02:09 PM
i don't know... there's a populist message in there... it's just for really angry, disaffected and extremist types.

I would say it's against really angry, disaffected and extremist statists. Like you and ravi and cigar and exo.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 02:39 PM
Look up what populist means, ravi, learn something.
Yet another instance of your inability to admit you are wrong.

The Wash
11-13-2013, 03:10 PM
How is Sarah Palin not populist? What is she saying "extreme"? She sounds like a typical conservative.

When I hear "extreme" I think McVeigh or Ayers.

Captain Obvious
11-13-2013, 03:15 PM
How is Sarah Palin not populist? What is she saying "extreme"? She sounds like a typical conservative.

When I hear "extreme" I think McVeigh or Ayers.

Palin is not an extremist. She pretended to be one for a while when it suited her.

If she's anything it's artificial.

Chris
11-13-2013, 03:16 PM
Yet another instance of your inability to admit you are wrong.

You're not knowing what populist means is an instance of me being wrong. You're goofy.

Cigar
11-13-2013, 03:18 PM
Palin is not an extremist. She pretended to be one for a while when it suited her.

If she's anything it's artificial.

She's an Opportunist ... who uses her best talents and tries to hide her failures, I'm ok with that so long is she's not The VP of The United States.

jillian
11-13-2013, 03:20 PM
Palin is not an extremist. She pretended to be one for a while when it suited her.

If she's anything it's artificial.

if she is not, personally, extremist (though I believe she is) then she spouts extremist rhetoric....

Chris
11-13-2013, 03:20 PM
How is Sarah Palin not populist? What is she saying "extreme"? She sounds like a typical conservative.

When I hear "extreme" I think McVeigh or Ayers.



Most everything she says pits we the people against them the elites. Only difference between her and a liberal populist is she pits the people against an elitist government while they pit the people against exploitative business. IOW, in many ways she's right and they're left.

Put them both together, just as you might the Tea Parties and OWA, you get closer to the truth.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 03:21 PM
She's an Opportunist ... who uses her best talents and tries to hide her failures, I'm ok with that so long is she's not The VP of The United States.

In reality she's a media whore that appeals to nutters.

The Wash
11-13-2013, 03:22 PM
Palin is not an extremist. She pretended to be one for a while when it suited her.

If she's anything it's artificial.

She pretended to be the type of person to plant a bomb somewhere? I don't think so. As a vet I am personally discouraged by the use of the word "extreme" these days. It is thrown around too loosely and if I need to defend Sarah Palin to get my point across then I will.

She neither is extreme or pretended to be extreme. Until such time as she is seen wearing a shemagh or a "Timothy McVeigh was innocent" tshirt I will chalk her up as "conservative".

Chris
11-13-2013, 03:23 PM
if she is not, personally, extremist (though I believe she is) then she spouts extremist rhetoric....

So do you, jillian, every other word you post is extremist, extremist extremist extremist extremist extremist extremist extremist extremist ad naseum everyone's an extremist. Except you of course. :rollseyes:

Cigar
11-13-2013, 03:23 PM
In reality she's a media whore that appeals to nutters.

Her act is getting Old :wink:

Mister D
11-13-2013, 03:24 PM
How is Sarah Palin not populist? What is she saying "extreme"? She sounds like a typical conservative.

When I hear "extreme" I think McVeigh or Ayers.

Well, yeah. When a normal person hears "extreme" they tend to think of someone extreme like McVeigh or Ayers. With some of these folks, however, extreme refers to whoever disagrees with them.

Captain Obvious
11-13-2013, 03:25 PM
She pretended to be the type of person to plant a bomb somewhere? I don't think so. As a vet I am personally discouraged by the use of the word "extreme" these days. It is thrown around too loosely and if I need to defend Sarah Palin to get my point across then I will.

She neither is extreme or pretended to be extreme. Until such time as she is seen wearing a shemagh or a "Timothy McVeigh was innocent" tshirt I will chalk her up as "conservative".

Political extremist, not a violent extremist.

jillian
11-13-2013, 03:26 PM
Her act is getting Old :wink:

getting?

Chris
11-13-2013, 03:26 PM
In reality she's a media whore that appeals to nutters.



IOW, she's a politician, duh.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 03:28 PM
Political extremist, not a violent extremist.
Unless she's chasing Glen Rice. ;)

junie
11-13-2013, 03:29 PM
When you realize that your political positions are just way too extreme. 4560

Chris
11-13-2013, 03:29 PM
Well, yeah. When a normal person hears "extreme" they tend to think of someone extreme like McVeigh or Ayers. With some of these folks, however, extreme refers to whoever disagrees with them.



About as meaningful as a liberal crying racist.

The Wash
11-13-2013, 03:29 PM
Political extremist, not a violent extremist.

Is she for the absolution of the state, or just conservative values?

Mister D
11-13-2013, 03:29 PM
About as meaningful as a liberal crying racist.

Exactly.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 03:30 PM
When you realize that your political positions are just way too extreme.

4560That's a riot :)

Cigar
11-13-2013, 03:30 PM
Then people start their sentences off with "Hitler", "Kenyan", "Socialist" and "Communist" ... you then consider the source and roll your eyes. :rollseyes:

Maybe a Extreme Nut is more appropriate

Cigar
11-13-2013, 03:32 PM
About as meaningful as a liberal crying racist.

Most Liberals I know don't cry racist, they usually whisper in your ear when you're face first in the dirt :laugh:

The Wash
11-13-2013, 03:32 PM
I think the level of rhetoric in general needs to be notched down because it creates a net that catches a lot of dolphins in with the tuna.

Cigar
11-13-2013, 03:33 PM
I think the level of rhetoric in general needs to be notched down because it creates a net that catches a lot of dolphins in with the tuna.

Time for a Re-Education Program :wink:

The Wash
11-13-2013, 03:40 PM
Time for a Re-Education Program :wink:

I don't bother anyone. I do not lower my standards, but if you're going to label me an "extremist" we gonna to have some issues. I am not "extreme" for wanting my privacy or expecting it. Some folks on here some to think its ok to speak to me any old way they feel like because they feel like I owe them something because they voted for a black man.

Chris
11-13-2013, 04:40 PM
Then people start their sentences off with "Hitler", "Kenyan", "Socialist" and "Communist" ... you then consider the source and roll your eyes. :rollseyes:

Maybe a Extreme Nut is more appropriate



I think you're saying what I said earlier that the extremists are the one calling others Hitler, as Bush was, or well, calling others extremist.

bladimz
11-13-2013, 04:59 PM
Oh yeah, I'm just riveted to what this bubble-headed bimbo has to say about the pope.

I'm clinging to her every statement.

:rollseyes:At least you're smart enough to resist engaging with someone who just wrinkles your sheets.

oceanloverOH
11-13-2013, 05:10 PM
That doesn't relate to what your parents said. Like I said, they are faux Catholics.

It is in poor taste and totally unacceptable under any circumstances to attack or insult a member's family.

Ravi
11-13-2013, 08:07 PM
It is in poor taste and totally unacceptable under any circumstances to attack or insult a member's family.huh? I was commenting on the claim. No real Catholic would say that. No insult, simply fact.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 08:13 PM
huh? I was commenting on the claim. No real Catholic would say that. No insult, simply fact.

Who the hell are you to decide what a "real" Catholic is? :laugh:

Codename Section
11-13-2013, 08:13 PM
huh? I was commenting on the claim. No real Catholic would say that. No insult, simply fact.

Really. I made a comment about the pope's infallibility once and had a Catholic talk to me about some kind of crap dealing with where the pope is when he's speaking etc. Can you explain it?

Cigar
11-13-2013, 08:18 PM
I don't bother anyone. I do not lower my standards, but if you're going to label me an "extremist" we gonna to have some issues. I am not "extreme" for wanting my privacy or expecting it. Some folks on here some to think its ok to speak to me any old way they feel like because they feel like I owe them something because they voted for a black man.

They can say anything they want on the Internet and they usually do, because I have an extream boot in real life. :)

del
11-13-2013, 08:21 PM
From http://www.catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility:




You've blundered again. Poor ravi.

the pope is infallible in doctrinal matters of the church concerning faith and morals.

every catholic knows this. the pope certainly can (and does) sin, however, his is the final word on faith and dogma of the roman catholic church.

for example, if the pope decides that it is permissible for priests to marry, or women to become priests, or for the church to perform same sex marriages, then those would become catholic dogma.

AmazonTania
11-13-2013, 08:23 PM
Who the hell are you to decide what a "real" Catholic is? :laugh:

You can know almost anything if you refer to Google...

jillian
11-13-2013, 08:25 PM
You can know almost anything if you refer to Google...

or she can be a real catholic.

del
11-13-2013, 08:25 PM
Really. I made a comment about the pope's infallibility once and had a Catholic talk to me about some kind of crap dealing with where the pope is when he's speaking etc. Can you explain it?

if the pope si speaking to the whole church on matters of faith and morals, he is considered to be infallible because he is being guided by the holy spirit. this is called speaking ex cathedra which means from his chair, that is, his position as the pope.

he doesn't actually have to be in his chair...

Captain Obvious
11-13-2013, 08:26 PM
Palin vs. the Pope?

My money's on the Popemiester. Bet he falcon punches her in the primary.

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 08:52 PM
The pope has to say he is speaking from his chair for it to be "infallible" or church doctrine. John Paul II called the Iraq War an unjust war, he also spoke about the environment but because he didn't speak saying it with the big Pope words it was more like a guideline. The popes talk about a lot of things but they will distinguish when they are speaking with the "Holy Spirit".

Former alter boy and someone hoping that he would say it that way since my parents were pressuring me to join the service.

junie
11-13-2013, 08:58 PM
Are you Catholic to say this?

My parents are. I've asked them, must you follow what the Pope says. No, they answered, he's not God. We follow what we believe God wants.



yeah, wrong...




Papal Infallibility


The Catholic Church’s teaching on papal infallibility is one which is generally misunderstood by those outside the Church. In particular, Fundamentalists and other "Bible Christians" often confuse the charism of papal "infallibility" with "impeccability." They imagine Catholics believe the pope cannot sin. Others, who avoid this elementary blunder, think the pope relies on some sort of amulet or magical incantation when an infallible definition is due.



Given these common misapprehensions regarding the basic tenets of papal infallibility, it is necessary to explain exactly what infallibility is not. Infallibility is not the absence of sin. Nor is it a charism that belongs only to the pope. Indeed, infallibility also belongs to the body of bishops as a whole, when, in doctrinal unity with the pope, they solemnly teach a doctrine as true. We have this from Jesus himself, who promised the apostles and their successors the bishops, the magisterium of the Church: "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16), and "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matt. 18:18).

Vatican II’s Explanation




Vatican II explained the doctrine of infallibility as follows: "Although the individual bishops do not enjoy the prerogative of infallibility, they can nevertheless proclaim Christ’s doctrine infallibly. This is so, even when they are dispersed around the world, provided that while maintaining the bond of unity among themselves and with Peter’s successor, and while teaching authentically on a matter of faith or morals, they concur in a single viewpoint as the one which must be held conclusively. This authority is even more clearly verified when, gathered together in an ecumenical council, they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church. Their definitions must then be adhered to with the submission of faith" (Lumen Gentium 25).
Infallibility belongs in a special way to the pope as head of the bishops (Matt. 16:17–19; John 21:15–17). As Vatican II remarked, it is a charism the pope "enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance promised to him in blessed Peter."



The infallibility of the pope is not a doctrine that suddenly appeared in Church teaching; rather, it is a doctrine which was implicit in the early Church. It is only our understanding of infallibility which has developed and been more clearly understood over time. In fact, the doctrine of infallibility is implicit in these Petrine texts: John 21:15–17 ("Feed my sheep . . . "), Luke 22:32 ("I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail"), and Matthew 16:18 ("You are Peter . . . ").

Based on Christ’s Mandate

Christ instructed the Church to preach everything he taught (Matt. 28:19–20) and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13). That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might.



As Christians began to more clearly understand the teaching authority of the Church and of the primacy of the pope, they developed a clearer understanding of the pope’s infallibility. This development of the faithful’s understanding has its clear beginnings in the early Church. For example, Cyprian of Carthage, writing about 256, put the question this way, "Would the heretics dare to come to the very seat of Peter whence apostolic faith is derived and whither no errors can come?" (Letters 59 [55], 14). In the fifth century, Augustine succinctly captured the ancient attitude when he remarked, "Rome has spoken; the case is concluded" (Sermons 131, 10).


http://www.catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility

jillian
11-13-2013, 09:00 PM
wouldn't he call what he did an "appeal to authority" if anyone else did it?

just wondering.

junie
11-13-2013, 09:03 PM
wouldn't he call what he did an "appeal to authority" if anyone else did it?

just wondering.



lol chances are, but it in this case it would be a faux 'authority'. :wink:

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 09:03 PM
I don't think that its very nice to question if someone is a real or faux Catholic based on 2nd hand information that the provider may have wrong. Questioning someone's religious integrity is best left to their priest not strangers. I'm imperfect and Catholic. I expect others are, as well. The Catholic Church has a lot of rules and tradition and the dogma can be hard to understand.

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:06 PM
the pope is infallible in doctrinal matters of the church concerning faith and morals.

every catholic knows this. the pope certainly can (and does) sin, however, his is the final word on faith and dogma of the roman catholic church.

for example, if the pope decides that it is permissible for priests to marry, or women to become priests, or for the church to perform same sex marriages, then those would become catholic dogma.


As the Catholic source I cited explained popes are infallible if they proclaim Christ’s doctrine. Christ's doctrine and church dogma are different.

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:09 PM
yeah, wrong...




Papal Infallibility


The Catholic Church’s teaching on papal infallibility is one which is generally misunderstood by those outside the Church. In particular, Fundamentalists and other "Bible Christians" often confuse the charism of papal "infallibility" with "impeccability." They imagine Catholics believe the pope cannot sin. Others, who avoid this elementary blunder, think the pope relies on some sort of amulet or magical incantation when an infallible definition is due.



Given these common misapprehensions regarding the basic tenets of papal infallibility, it is necessary to explain exactly what infallibility is not. Infallibility is not the absence of sin. Nor is it a charism that belongs only to the pope. Indeed, infallibility also belongs to the body of bishops as a whole, when, in doctrinal unity with the pope, they solemnly teach a doctrine as true. We have this from Jesus himself, who promised the apostles and their successors the bishops, the magisterium of the Church: "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16), and "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matt. 18:18).

Vatican II’s Explanation




Vatican II explained the doctrine of infallibility as follows: "Although the individual bishops do not enjoy the prerogative of infallibility, they can nevertheless proclaim Christ’s doctrine infallibly. This is so, even when they are dispersed around the world, provided that while maintaining the bond of unity among themselves and with Peter’s successor, and while teaching authentically on a matter of faith or morals, they concur in a single viewpoint as the one which must be held conclusively. This authority is even more clearly verified when, gathered together in an ecumenical council, they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church. Their definitions must then be adhered to with the submission of faith" (Lumen Gentium 25).
Infallibility belongs in a special way to the pope as head of the bishops (Matt. 16:17–19; John 21:15–17). As Vatican II remarked, it is a charism the pope "enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance promised to him in blessed Peter."



The infallibility of the pope is not a doctrine that suddenly appeared in Church teaching; rather, it is a doctrine which was implicit in the early Church. It is only our understanding of infallibility which has developed and been more clearly understood over time. In fact, the doctrine of infallibility is implicit in these Petrine texts: John 21:15–17 ("Feed my sheep . . . "), Luke 22:32 ("I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail"), and Matthew 16:18 ("You are Peter . . . ").

Based on Christ’s Mandate

Christ instructed the Church to preach everything he taught (Matt. 28:19–20) and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13). That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might.



As Christians began to more clearly understand the teaching authority of the Church and of the primacy of the pope, they developed a clearer understanding of the pope’s infallibility. This development of the faithful’s understanding has its clear beginnings in the early Church. For example, Cyprian of Carthage, writing about 256, put the question this way, "Would the heretics dare to come to the very seat of Peter whence apostolic faith is derived and whither no errors can come?" (Letters 59 [55], 14). In the fifth century, Augustine succinctly captured the ancient attitude when he remarked, "Rome has spoken; the case is concluded" (Sermons 131, 10).


http://www.catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility



And you cite the same source I cited, lol.

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:10 PM
wouldn't he call what he did an "appeal to authority" if anyone else did it?

just wondering.


lol chances are, but it in this case it would be a faux 'authority'. :wink:



You two are awfully silly at times. You do realize that junie cited the same source I did. So if I made an appeal to authority so did junie and if my source was a faux authority then yours was. Wink wink. Unbelievable.

junie
11-13-2013, 09:10 PM
Yep, and to Catholics, that means pretty much that God is a liberal. If there was any doubt. :thup:


Are you Catholic to say this?




^questioning ravi's catholicism...while being wrong about the facts of papal infallibility. the nerve!

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:13 PM
^questioning ravi's catholicism...while being wrong about the facts of papal infallibility. the nerve!

Nice twist, junie, I was asking if she's Catholic. Given that she didn't respond in the affirmative, I'd surmise she's not. And, again, your source was mine and explained infallibility in terms of only stating Christ's doctrine. Don't you read what you paste?

The Wash
11-13-2013, 09:15 PM
^questioning ravi's catholicism...while being wrong about the facts of papal infallibility. the nerve!

Technically asking someone if they are Catholic is different than calling someone "faux Catholics". There is a distinction. One is a general question, the other is an implication.

This whole thread got way out of control awhile back.

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:16 PM
Technically asking someone if they are Catholic is different than calling someone "faux Catholics". There is a distinction. One is a general question, the other is an implication.

This whole thread got way out of control awhile back.

Indeed...

http://i.qkme.me/35t3e4.jpg

Mister D
11-13-2013, 09:17 PM
^questioning ravi's catholicism...while being wrong about the facts of papal infallibility. the nerve!

When did Ravi become a pro-life "extremist"? :smiley_ROFLMAO: Hey, it's her own logic.

Green Arrow
11-13-2013, 09:18 PM
I don't think that its very nice to question if someone is a real or faux Catholic based on 2nd hand information that the provider may have wrong. Questioning someone's religious integrity is best left to their priest not strangers. I'm imperfect and Catholic. I expect others are, as well. The Catholic Church has a lot of rules and tradition and the dogma can be hard to understand.

In polite company, it's improper to doubt someone's religious fervor or identity.

Clearly, we're not in polite company.

junie
11-13-2013, 09:18 PM
you invoked your parents' catholicism as an appeal to authority and ravi knew what all catholics should know and what your parents did not know. sorry your parents misinformed you, you can call that what you will.

btw you don't need to be catholic to grasp the concept of papal infallibility, so i'm guessing you invoked your parents just so you could bait ravi into referring to them, so you could feel victimized by it. bravo!

@Chris (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=128)

Captain Obvious
11-13-2013, 09:18 PM
In polite company, it's improper to doubt someone's religious fervor or identity.

Clearly, we're not in polite company.

Clearly...

The Wash
11-13-2013, 09:19 PM
In polite company, it's improper to doubt someone's religious fervor or identity.

Clearly, we're not in polite company.

He's just a nice dude. He'll learn better on here or leave.

junie
11-13-2013, 09:21 PM
When did Ravi become a pro-life "extremist"? :smiley_ROFLMAO: Hey, it's her own logic.



lol she's raised catholic, magoo! as was i!

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:26 PM
you invoked your parents' catholicism as an appeal to authority and ravi knew what all catholics should know and what your parents did not know. sorry your parents misinformed you, you can call that what you will.

btw you don't need to be catholic to grasp the concept of papal infallibility, so i'm guessing you invoked your parents just so you could bait ravi into referring to them, so you could feel victimized by it. bravo!

@Chris (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=128)


You've got quite an imagination, junie, first you invent my intention and then you criticize your invention. What sophistry.

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 09:27 PM
you invoked your parents' catholicism as an appeal to authority and ravi knew what all catholics should know and what your parents did not know. sorry your parents misinformed you, you can call that what you will.

btw you don't need to be catholic to grasp the concept of papal infallibility, so i'm guessing you invoked your parents just so you could bait ravi into referring to them, so you could feel victimized by it. bravo!

@Chris (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=128)

No. You are wrong and that other person "del" is correct. Only when the Pope is providing a teaching lesson is the lesson "infallible" because the lesson comes from the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit which is infallible, not the pope. This is how the church explains popes that do bad things or contradict each other in bulls or speeches. If you read the entire article it gets to that.

The Pope has had official church teachings on abortion, homosexuality, and "just war". However, when Pope John Paul II stated the Iraq War was not just, he did not do that citing that it came from the Holy Spirit so Catholics in the military could still fight in it and be in accord with the Church.

I still don't think that it is right to call into question this person's parents and their faith. They aren't here to defend themselves or clarify. It just seems to me that maybe in threads dealing with religion that people should be kinder or something.

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:28 PM
In polite company, it's improper to doubt someone's religious fervor or identity.

Clearly, we're not in polite company.



I think most of us have know this for a long time.

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:31 PM
No. You are wrong and that other person "del" is correct. Only when the Pope is providing a teaching lesson is the lesson "infallible" because the lesson comes from the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit which is infallible, not the pope. This is how the church explains popes that do bad things or contradict each other in bulls or speeches. If you read the entire article it gets to that.

The Pope has had official church teachings on abortion, homosexuality, and "just war". However, when Pope John Paul II stated the Iraq War was not just, he did not do that citing that it came from the Holy Spirit so Catholics in the military could still fight in it and be in accord with the Church.

I still don't think that it is right to call into question this person's parents and their faith. They aren't here to defend themselves or clarify. It just seems to me that maybe in threads dealing with religion that people should be kinder or something.

That's a good explanation of the distinction. The source I cited, and junie for that matter, a Catholic source, gave the following example:


Peter Not Infallible?

As a biblical example of papal fallibility, Fundamentalists like to point to Peter’s conduct at Antioch, where he refused to eat with Gentile Christians in order not to offend certain Jews from Palestine (Gal. 2:11–16). For this Paul rebuked him. Did this demonstrate papal infallibility was non-existent? Not at all. Peter’s actions had to do with matters of discipline, not with issues of faith or morals.

Furthermore, the problem was Peter’s actions, not his teaching. Paul acknowledged that Peter very well knew the correct teaching (Gal. 2:12–13). The problem was that he wasn’t living up to his own teaching. Thus, in this instance, Peter was not doing any teaching; much less was he solemnly defining a matter of faith or morals.

junie
11-13-2013, 09:35 PM
No. You are wrong and that other person "del" is correct.

Only when the Pope is providing a teaching lesson is the lesson "infallible" because the lesson comes from the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit which is infallible, not the pope. This is how the church explains popes that do bad things or contradict each other in bulls or speeches. If you read the entire article it gets to that.

The Pope has had official church teachings on abortion, homosexuality, and "just war". However, when Pope John Paul II stated the Iraq War was not just, he did not do that citing that it came from the Holy Spirit so Catholics in the military could still fight in it and be in accord with the Church.

I still don't think that it is right to call into question this person's parents and their faith. They aren't here to defend themselves or clarify. It just seems to me that maybe in threads dealing with religion that people should be kinder or something.



yep del is correct, and nothing you've said contradicts anything i've said either.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 09:35 PM
lol she's raised catholic, magoo! as was i!

Then he's right to question Ravi's Catholicism. You were saying? :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Junie, your activity here consists of following Ravi with your pom poms. Stop embarrassing yourself. It's a bad look, grandma. You can't kick high these days. :laugh:

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 09:41 PM
yep del is correct, and nothing you've said contradicts anything i've said either.

The pope is not always infallible. His infallible authority comes from the Holy Spirit and he has to say that he's speaking from the chair with authority.

The church has a lot of distinctions and loopholes.

del
11-13-2013, 09:42 PM
As the Catholic source I cited explained popes are infallible if they proclaim Christ’s doctrine. Christ's doctrine and church dogma are different.





we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that

when the Roman pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA,

that is, when,
in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians,
in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority,
he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church,


he possesses,

by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter,

that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals.
Therefore, such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the church, irreformable.

So then, should anyone, which God forbid, have the temerity to reject this definition of ours: let him be anathema.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum20.htm#Chapter%204.%20On%20the%20infallible%20 teaching%20authority%20of%20the%20Roman%20pontiff



strangely, i see no mention of christ's doctrine in there, just doctrine concerning faith and morals which is what i stated previously and correctly.

i'm sure the people at catholic.com mean well, but i'll stick with the source.

junie
11-13-2013, 09:42 PM
Then he's right to question Ravi's Catholicism. You were saying? :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Junie, your activity here consists of following Ravi with your pom poms. Stop embarrassing yourself. It's a bad look, grandma. You can't kick high these days. :laugh:



lol wanna bet? chris invoked his parents as supposed authorities on catholicism while questioning ravi's catholicism as if she didn't know what she was talking about.

gawd forbid his parents should be mentioned in her reply. :cry:

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:50 PM
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum20.htm#Chapter%204.%20On%20the%20infallible%20 teaching%20authority%20of%20the%20Roman%20pontiff



strangely, i see no mention of christ's doctrine in there, just doctrine concerning faith and morals which is what i stated previously and correctly.

i'm sure the people at catholic.com mean well, but i'll stick with the source.



Now you're pretty much saying what I was saying, Christ's doctrine would concern matters of faith and morals. But as Terminal Lance and I have now exampled on church dogma the pope is not infallible. See post http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/18739-Palin-vs-the-Pope?p=423015&viewfull=1#post423015.

So there is a distinction between when he is and when he's not.

This was the point my parents, who are Catholics, made to me.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 09:50 PM
lol wanna bet? chris invoked his parents as supposed authorities on catholicism while questioning ravi's catholicism as if she didn't know what she was talking about.

gawd forbid his parents should be mentioned in her reply. :cry:

no, actually. The thought of your wrinkled carcass doing a cheer is disturbing. I'm sorry I mentioned it. :undecided:

He was right to question Ravi's Catholicism. Or is she really a pro-life "extremist" in disguise? Is it all a ruse to make liberal women look incredibly stupid? Wow OK. She does good work! Check out this gem:

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/18656-Palindrome-The-War-on-Christmas?p=421537&viewfull=1#post421537

:laugh:

Chris
11-13-2013, 09:52 PM
lol wanna bet? chris invoked his parents as supposed authorities on catholicism while questioning ravi's catholicism as if she didn't know what she was talking about.

gawd forbid his parents should be mentioned in her reply. :cry:


Now you're just plain lying. I told a story of what my parents had told me and ravi blatantly attacked them. I asked ravi was she Catholic, I didn't insult her.

Blackrook
11-13-2013, 09:55 PM
The Pope is not infallible when he grants interviews to newspaper reporters. He can pretty much say whatever the hell he wants, so long as he's not speaking ex cathedra.

For example, people thought the Catholic position on the death penalty had changed because John Paul II was against the death penalty.

I read the Catholic Cathechism, and the Catholic position on the death penalty hasn't changed one iota. It's still allowed when necessary, the only proviso is that in modern circumstances, there isn't as much necessity.

del
11-13-2013, 09:55 PM
Now you're pretty much saying what I was saying, Christ's doctrine would concern matters of faith and morals. But as Terminal Lance and I have now exampled on church dogma the pope is not infallible. See post http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/18739-Palin-vs-the-Pope?p=423015&viewfull=1#post423015.

So there is a distinction between when he is and when he's not.

This was the point my parents, who are Catholics, made to me.

i never said the pope was infallible in anything but matters of faith and morals.

i'm sure your parents are wonderful people who would be horrified if they knew you were using words like *exampled*

english, learn it, love it, live it

junie
11-13-2013, 09:59 PM
no, actually. The thought of your wrinkled carcass doing a cheer is disturbing. I'm sorry I mentioned it. :undecided:

He was right to question Ravi's Catholicism. Or is she really a pro-life "extremist" in disguise? Is it all a ruse to make liberal women look incredibly stupid? Wow OK. She does good work! Check out this gem:

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/18656-Palindrome-The-War-on-Christmas?p=421537&viewfull=1#post421537

:laugh:



oh my my pass the tea and crumpets, how brilliant! we are definitely in 'polite' company around here! :laugh:

Mister D
11-13-2013, 10:02 PM
oh my my pass the tea and crumpets, how brilliant! we are definitely in 'polite' company around here! :laugh:

Seriously, it was a mistake. :undecided:

del
11-13-2013, 10:02 PM
no, actually. The thought of your wrinkled carcass doing a cheer is disturbing. I'm sorry I mentioned it. :undecided:

He was right to question Ravi's Catholicism. Or is she really a pro-life "extremist" in disguise? Is it all a ruse to make liberal women look incredibly stupid? Wow OK. She does good work! Check out this gem:

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/18656-Palindrome-The-War-on-Christmas?p=421537&viewfull=1#post421537

:laugh:

under the (probably erroneous) assumption that you have one, what's your point?

Mister D
11-13-2013, 10:03 PM
i never said the pope was infallible in anything but matters of faith and morals.

i'm sure your parents are wonderful people who would be horrified if they knew you were using words like *exampled*

english, learn it, love it, live it

What's wrong with exampled?

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 10:04 PM
I think people's parents, spouse, and kids should be left out of bitch fighting IRL and in forums. So should people's religions. It's like kicking someone in the nuts. Low blow.

The topic is Sarah Palin calling the Pope liberal and as a Jesuit its apt to be called a "liberal" in the classical liberal sense. Since he has still repeated that abortion is an abomination and homosexuality is against God's plan, he is also conservative. He is a mixture. He believes in calling out sin when appropriate but not focusing on it to the exclusion of love and charity.

I like Pope Francis and he is why I returned to the Church. It hadn't felt the same since JPII died.

Chris
11-13-2013, 10:04 PM
i never said the pope was infallible in anything but matters of faith and morals.

i'm sure your parents are wonderful people who would be horrified if they knew you were using words like *exampled*

english, learn it, love it, live it



Ah, criminy, another one who just needs to win an argument so you nitpick words but fail to cap the beginning of sentences, lol.

del, these are your words: "every catholic knows this. the pope certainly can (and does) sin, however, his is the final word on faith and dogma of the roman catholic church. for example, if the pope decides that it is permissible for priests to marry, or women to become priests, or for the church to perform same sex marriages, then those would become catholic dogma"


You confused doctrine on spiritual matters with ditates on worldly matters. See http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/18739-Palin-vs-the-Pope?p=423015&viewfull=1#post423015 one more time.

Mister D
11-13-2013, 10:09 PM
under the (probably erroneous) assumption that you have one, what's your point?

That Ravi and Junie are both idiots. Do you need help with anything else, del? I see you did not know exampled is the past tense and past participle of the verb example. :smiley:

Mister D
11-13-2013, 10:11 PM
Ah, criminy, another one who just needs to win an argument so you nitpick words but fail to cap the beginning of sentences, lol.
.

Del needs to nitpick a little better. He/she is wrong. :laugh:

Mister D
11-13-2013, 10:14 PM
I think people's parents, spouse, and kids should be left out of bitch fighting IRL and in forums. So should people's religions. It's like kicking someone in the nuts. Low blow.

The topic is Sarah Palin calling the Pope liberal and as a Jesuit its apt to be called a "liberal" in the classical liberal sense. Since he has still repeated that abortion is an abomination and homosexuality is against God's plan, he is also conservative. He is a mixture. He believes in calling out sin when appropriate but not focusing on it to the exclusion of love and charity.

I like Pope Francis and he is why I returned to the Church. It hadn't felt the same since JPII died.

I was thinking of doing the same. Yes, he is conservative or at least enough for me. That's actually what's most attractive about the RCC for me (i.e. its conservatism).

del
11-13-2013, 10:25 PM
Ah, criminy, another one who just needs to win an argument so you nitpick words but fail to cap the beginning of sentences, lol.

del, these are your words: "every catholic knows this. the pope certainly can (and does) sin, however, his is the final word on faith and dogma of the roman catholic church. for example, if the pope decides that it is permissible for priests to marry, or women to become priests, or for the church to perform same sex marriages, then those would become catholic dogma"


You confused doctrine on spiritual matters with ditates on worldly matters. See http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/18739-Palin-vs-the-Pope?p=423015&viewfull=1#post423015 one more time.

so your position is that the determination of who can receive sacraments is a worldly matter? srsly?

:rollseyes:

del
11-13-2013, 10:30 PM
That Ravi and Junie are both idiots. Do you need help with anything else, del? I see you did not know exampled is the past tense and past participle of the verb example. :smiley:

and i see that you don't know that example is a noun, not a verb, and therefore has no tenses.

it's good to see functional illiterates striving to improve themselves, as exemplified by your post.

kudos

Chris
11-13-2013, 10:30 PM
so your position is that the determination of who can receive sacraments is a worldly matter? srsly?

:rollseyes:

Keep tossing spaghetti at the wall, I'm sure something will stick.

del
11-13-2013, 10:31 PM
Del needs to nitpick a little better. He/she is wrong. :laugh:

no, i'm not.

are you a recent arrival to our shores?

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 10:31 PM
Do people on this forum believe that you can vote and support pro-choice and receive the Eucharist? According to every Pope it is a mortal sin and you should not receive the sacrament of communion. Are you still Catholic if you support abortion?

I don't necessarily want an answer. My point is that it is very easy for all of us to pick up rocks, throw them or try to determine who is Catholic enough. It's just not very Christian to do so given we cannot judge the nature and sincerity of another's soul.

I went to war that John Paul II said was unjust. He didn't say it "from the pulpit" but he said it. Am I a bad Catholic?

del
11-13-2013, 10:31 PM
Keep tossing spaghetti at the wall, I'm sure something will stick.

so you have nothing

color me shocked

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 10:33 PM
and i see that you don't know that example is a noun, not a verb, and therefore has no tenses.

it's good to see functional illiterates striving to improve themselves, as exemplified by your post.

kudos

ex·am·ple
igˈzampəl/
verb
past participle: exampled


1.
be illustrated or exemplified.
"the extent of Allied naval support is exampled by the navigational specialists provided"



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exampled


(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exampled)
verb (used with object) 7. Rare. to give or be an example of; exemplify (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exemplify) (used in the passive).



(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exampled)

junie
11-13-2013, 10:34 PM
Six months into his papacy, Pope Francis sent shock waves through the Roman Catholic church on Thursday with the publication of his remarks that the church had grown “obsessed” with abortion, gay marriage and contraception...

His surprising comments came in a lengthy interview in which he criticized the church for putting dogma before love, and for prioritizing moral doctrines over serving the poor and marginalized. He articulated his vision of an inclusive church, a “home for all” — which is a striking contrast with his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, the doctrinal defender who envisioned a smaller, purer church.


Francis told the interviewer, a fellow Jesuit: “It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.



“We have to find a new balance,” the pope continued, “otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”



The pope’s interview did not change church doctrine or policies, but it instantly changed its tone. His words evoked gratitude and hope from many liberal Catholics who had felt left out in the cold during the papacies of Benedict and his predecessor, John Paul II, which together lasted 35 years. Some lapsed Catholics suggested on social media a return to the church...


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html



so ravi replies, yep see here the pope is a liberal! and chris sidetracked the thread by bringing up his parents as a faux authority, thus creating an argument which was beside the point... there's a word for that.

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 10:37 PM
so ravi replies, yep see here the pope is a liberal! and chris sidetracked the thread by bringing up his parents as a faux authority, thus creating an argument which was beside the point... there's a word for that.

Thats an unpleasant way of talking about his parents. You could have just said that he brought his parents into the discussion. It's not that hard to err on the side of being nice.

junie
11-13-2013, 10:37 PM
Yep, and to Catholics, that means pretty much that God is a liberal. If there was any doubt. :thup:



oh, my bad..she said God is a liberal! lol

Terminal Lance
11-13-2013, 10:37 PM
I'm going to leave this thread. Sorry for participating. It's not for me.

junie
11-13-2013, 10:43 PM
Thats an unpleasant way of talking about his parents. You could have just said that he brought his parents into the discussion. It's not that hard to err on the side of being nice.



is this your way of being nice to me? :laugh:


hint: i used the word 'faux' because it was the supposed offending word in question...

chris hasn't been nice to ravi so when he invoked his parents as an authority in the same breath he was questioning her catholicism, he was asking for her to mention them.

The Wash
11-13-2013, 10:47 PM
To the person who made fun of the kid's "dictionary". How's Oxford?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/example

noun

1a thing characteristic of its kind or illustrating a general rule:it’s a good example of how European action can produce results some of these carpets are among the finest examples of the period

a printed or written problem or exercise designed to illustrate a rule.


2a person or thing regarded in terms of their fitness to be imitated or the likelihood of their being imitated:it is vitally important that parents should set an example she followed her brother’s example and deserted her family
verb (be exampled)

be illustrated or exemplified:the extent of Allied naval support is exampled by the navigational specialists provided

The Wash
11-13-2013, 10:51 PM
is this your way of being nice to me? :laugh:


hint: i used the word 'faux' because it was the supposed offending word in question...

chris hasn't been nice to ravi so when he invoked his parents as an authority in the same breath he was questioning her catholicism, he was asking for her to mention them.

Some people don't think its right to call out somebody's family. Why can't you just talk shit to Chris? Why you guys gotta call his parents faux fucking anything. Chris is up in the game take a shot at him. I seriously don't see the point in knocking down people's family. It's like everybody's got something to say about Michelle Obama because they don't like her husband's policies. Whatever problem you got with someone leave it at their door. Don't take cuts at family.

And I'm not being nice. I'm not the kid. I don't even pretend.

junie
11-13-2013, 10:58 PM
Some people don't think its right to call out somebody's family. Why can't you just talk shit to Chris? Why you guys gotta call his parents faux fucking anything. Chris is up in the game take a shot at him. I seriously don't see the point in knocking down people's family. It's like everybody's got something to say about Michelle Obama because they don't like her husband's policies. Whatever problem you got with someone leave it at their door. Don't take cuts at family.

And I'm not being nice. I'm not the kid. I don't even pretend.



lol you should work on your reading comprehension...

junie
11-13-2013, 11:01 PM
The exclusive interview with Pope Francis

Editor’s Note: This interview with Pope Francis took place over the course of three meetings during August 2013 in Rome. The interview was conducted in person by Antonio Spadaro, S.J., editor in chief of La Civiltà Cattolica, the Italian Jesuit journal. Father Spadaro conducted the interview on behalf of La Civiltà Cattolica, America and several other major Jesuit journals around the world. The editorial teams at each of the journals prepared questions and sent them to Father Spadaro, who then consolidated and organized them. The interview was conducted in Italian. After the Italian text was officially approved, America commissioned a team of five independent experts to translate it into English.

To Seek and Find God in All Things

Pope Francis’ words weigh heavily upon addressing the challenges of today. Years ago he had written that in order to see reality one must look with a gaze of faith. Otherwise one sees only small pieces of a fragmented reality. This is also one of the themes of the encyclical "Lumen Fidei." I am also thinking of a few passages from Pope Francis’ speeches during the World Youth Day in Rio de Janeiro. I quote them to him: “God is real if he shows himself in the here and now.” “God is everywhere.” These are phrases that echo the Ignatian expression “to seek and find God in all things.” Therefore I ask, “Your Holiness, how does one seek and find God in all things?”

“What I said in Rio referred to the time in which we seek God,” he answers. “In fact, there is a temptation to seek God in the past or in a possible future. God is certainly in the past because we can see the footprints. And God is also in the future as a promise. But the ‘concrete’ God, so to speak, is today. For this reason, complaining never helps us find God. The complaints of today about how ‘barbaric’ the world is—these complaints sometimes end up giving birth within the church to desires to establish order in the sense of pure conservation, as a defense. No: God is to be encountered in the world of today.



“God manifests himself in historical revelation, in history. Time initiates processes, and space crystallizes them. God is in history, in the processes.



“We must not focus on occupying the spaces where power is exercised, but rather on starting long-run historical processes. We must initiate processes rather than occupy spaces. God manifests himself in time and is present in the processes of history. This gives priority to actions that give birth to new historical dynamics. And it requires patience, waiting.



“Finding God in all things is not an ‘empirical eureka.’ When we desire to encounter God, we would like to verify him immediately by an empirical method. But you cannot meet God this way. God is found in the gentle breeze perceived by Elijah. The senses that find God are the ones St. Ignatius called spiritual senses. Ignatius asks us to open our spiritual sensitivity to encounter God beyond a purely empirical approach. A contemplative attitude is necessary: it is the feeling that you are moving along the good path of understanding and affection toward things and situations. Profound peace, spiritual consolation, love of God and love of all things in God—this is the sign that you are on this right path.”

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

The Wash
11-13-2013, 11:02 PM
lol you should work on your reading comprehension...

"lol"? Did you really just laugh out loud? I doubt it. Nothing's funny here. If you think so your bar is set low.

junie
11-13-2013, 11:06 PM
no, i really did lol. i do that a lot. it's a healthy way to live! :laugh:

The Wash
11-13-2013, 11:09 PM
no, i really did lol. i do that a lot. it's a healthy way to live! :laugh:

Keep on keeping on. Hope a neighbor doesn't see you laughing to yourself over nothing funny. You might get to understand the Baker act up close.

Chris
11-13-2013, 11:17 PM
ex·am·ple
igˈzampəl/
verb
past participle: exampled


1.
be illustrated or exemplified.
"the extent of Allied naval support is exampled by the navigational specialists provided"



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exampled


(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exampled)
verb (used with object) 7. Rare. to give or be an example of; exemplify (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exemplify) (used in the passive).



(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exampled)


To the person who made fun of the kid's "dictionary". How's Oxford?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/example

noun

1a thing characteristic of its kind or illustrating a general rule:it’s a good example of how European action can produce results some of these carpets are among the finest examples of the period

a printed or written problem or exercise designed to illustrate a rule.


2a person or thing regarded in terms of their fitness to be imitated or the likelihood of their being imitated:it is vitally important that parents should set an example she followed her brother’s example and deserted her family
verb (be exampled)

be illustrated or exemplified:the extent of Allied naval support is exampled by the navigational specialists provided







Thanks for the definitions but knew that.

I remember, freshman English, my first essay, I'd used 'concrete' as a verb, and the Prof red marked it you can't do that! Next class I came with dictionaries and told him oh but I can.

junie
11-13-2013, 11:17 PM
Keep on keeping on. Hope a neighbor doesn't see you laughing to yourself over nothing funny. You might get to understand the Baker act up close.



funny you should know all about that, huh? never heard of it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Mental_Health_Act

i figure i should be safe here in massachusetts. ^



your hair is hilarious too, btw. :afro:

The Wash
11-13-2013, 11:18 PM
funny you should know all about that, huh? never heard of it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Mental_Health_Act

i figure i should be safe here in massachusetts. ^



your hair is hilarious too, btw. :afro:


It's not quite there yet. I have another inch to go.

junie
11-13-2013, 11:22 PM
methinks chris needs to put down the sarah palin pom poms and stop grasping for all things beside the point.

Chris
11-13-2013, 11:24 PM
methinks chris needs to put down the sarah palin pom poms and stop grasping for all things beside the point.



Junie, you have me on ignore, you're arguing from ignorance.

junie
11-13-2013, 11:30 PM
^ :laughing4:

junie
11-13-2013, 11:32 PM
Certitude and MistakesI ask, “So if the encounter with God is not an ‘empirical eureka,’ and if it is a journey that sees with the eyes of history, then we can also make mistakes?”



The pope replies: “Yes, in this quest to seek and find God in all things there is still an area of uncertainty. There must be. If a person says that he met God with total certainty and is not touched by a margin of uncertainty, then this is not good. For me, this is an important key. If one has the answers to all the questions—that is the proof that God is not with him. It means that he is a false prophet using religion for himself. The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt. You must leave room for the Lord, not for our certainties; we must be humble. Uncertainty is in every true discernment that is open to finding confirmation in spiritual consolation.



“The risk in seeking and finding God in all things, then, is the willingness to explain too much, to say with human certainty and arrogance: ‘God is here.’ We will find only a god that fits our measure. The correct attitude is that of St. Augustine: seek God to find him, and find God to keep searching for God forever. Often we seek as if we were blind, as one often reads in the Bible. And this is the experience of the great fathers of the faith, who are our models. We have to re-read the Letter to the Hebrews, Chapter 11. Abraham leaves his home without knowing where he was going, by faith. All of our ancestors in the faith died seeing the good that was promised, but from a distance.... Our life is not given to us like an opera libretto, in which all is written down; but it means going, walking, doing, searching, seeing.... We must enter into the adventure of the quest for meeting God; we must let God search and encounter us.



“Because God is first; God is always first and makes the first move. God is a bit like the almond flower of your Sicily, Antonio, which always blooms first. We read it in the Prophets. God is encountered walking, along the path. At this juncture, someone might say that this is relativism. Is it relativism? Yes, if it is misunderstood as a kind of indistinct pantheism. It is not relativism if it is understood in the biblical sense, that God is always a surprise, so you never know where and how you will find him. You are not setting the time and place of the encounter with him. You must, therefore, discern the encounter. Discernment is essential.



“If the Christian is a restorationist, a legalist, if he wants everything clear and safe, then he will find nothing. Tradition and memory of the past must help us to have the courage to open up new areas to God. Those who today always look for disciplinarian solutions, those who long for an exaggerated doctrinal ‘security,’ those who stubbornly try to recover a past that no longer exists*—they have a static and inward-directed view of things. In this way, faith becomes an ideology among other ideologies. I have a dogmatic certainty: God is in every person’s life. God is in everyone’s life. Even if the life of a person has been a disaster, even if it is destroyed by vices, drugs or anything else—God is in this person’s life. You can, you must try to seek God in every human life. Although the life of a person is a land full of thorns and weeds, there is always a space in which the good seed can grow. You have to trust God.”

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

junie
11-13-2013, 11:41 PM
yeeawn...don't mind me, i'm just taking comfort in some bedtime reflections...nighty night*




Must We Be Optimistic?
The pope’s words remind me of some of his past reflections, in which as a cardinal he wrote that God is already living in the city, in the midst of all and united to each. It is another way, in my opinion, to say what St. Ignatius wrote in the Spiritual Exercises, that God “labors and works” in our world. So I ask: “Do we have to be optimistic? What are the signs of hope in today’s world? How can I be optimistic in a world in crisis?”



“I do not like to use the word optimism because that is about a psychological attitude,” the pope says. “I like to use the word hope instead, according to what we read in the Letter to the Hebrews, Chapter 11, that I mentioned before. The fathers of the faith kept walking, facing difficulties. And hope does not disappoint, as we read in the Letter to the Romans. Think instead of the first riddle of Puccini’s opera ‘Turandot,’” the pope suggests.



At that moment I recalled more or less by heart the verses of the riddle of the princess in that opera, to which the solution is hope: “In the gloomy night flies an iridescent ghost./ It rises and opens its wings/ on the infinite black humanity./ The whole world invokes it/ and the whole world implores it./ But the ghost disappears with the dawn/ to be reborn in the heart./ And every night it is born/ and every day it dies!” These are verses that reveal the desire for a hope. Yet here that hope is an iridescent ghost that disappears with the dawn.



“See,” says Pope Francis, “Christian hope is not a ghost and it does not deceive. It is a theological virtue and therefore, ultimately, a gift from God that cannot be reduced to optimism, which is only human. God does not mislead hope; God cannot deny himself. God is all promise.”


http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

Green Arrow
11-14-2013, 12:42 AM
That Ravi and Junie are both idiots. Do you need help with anything else, del? I see you did not know exampled is the past tense and past participle of the verb example. :smiley:

Aw, come on, D, let's not go there.

Ravi
11-14-2013, 07:22 AM
I don't think that its very nice to question if someone is a real or faux Catholic based on 2nd hand information that the provider may have wrong. Questioning someone's religious integrity is best left to their priest not strangers. I'm imperfect and Catholic. I expect others are, as well. The Catholic Church has a lot of rules and tradition and the dogma can be hard to understand.Fair enough. But to claim a Catholic doesn't have to listen to the pope is laughable.

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 08:03 AM
Fair enough. But to claim a Catholic doesn't have to listen to the pope is laughable.
Ravi thanks for being nice to the kid.

Chris
11-14-2013, 08:06 AM
Fair enough. But to claim a Catholic doesn't have to listen to the pope is laughable.

It has been amply demonstrated that that is false with several sources and examples. You offer no counter argument, no counter examples. Yet you persist in merely repeating an apparently uninformed opinion, why.

Ravi
11-14-2013, 08:43 AM
Are you Catholic to say this?

My parents are. I've asked them, must you follow what the Pope says. No, they answered, he's not God. We follow what we believe God wants.
Total bullshit.

Chris
11-14-2013, 09:50 AM
Total bullshit.

Again, mere personal opinion with no substance.

Chris
11-14-2013, 09:51 AM
Total bullshit.

Again, mere personal opinion with no substance. But at least you're not being nasty and insulting.

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 09:51 AM
Total bullshit.
Ravi

is Nancy Pelosi a "Faux Catholic"?

junie
11-14-2013, 10:01 AM
Catholics react to pope remarks on gays, abortionNEW YORK (AP) — Catholics around the globe are reacting mostly positively to Pope Francis' recent remarks that the church has become too focused on "small-minded rules" on hot-button issues like homosexuality, abortion and contraceptives.

At Masses over the weekend, the faithful reflected on how they believe Francis' comments would impact the Catholic Church.

The pope said Thursday that pastors should focus less on divisive social issues and should emphasize compassion over condemnation.

Outside a church in Coral Gables, Fla. on Sunday, Frank Recio said he was grateful that the pope is trying to shift the tone of the church.


"I'm a devout Catholic, always have been. I think the Catholic Church had gotten out of touch with the way the world was evolving," said Recio, 69, who's retired from a career in the technology industry.

Irene Delgado, a practicing Catholic in Havana, Cuba, said the church needs to adapt to modern times.


"The world evolves, and I believe that the Catholic Church is seeing that it is being left behind, and that is not good," said Delgado, 57. "So I think that they chose this Pope Francis because he is progressive, has to change things."

http://news.yahoo.com/catholics-react-pope-remarks-gays-abortion-140129730.html

Mister D
11-14-2013, 10:01 AM
and i see that you don't know that example is a noun, not a verb, and therefore has no tenses.

it's good to see functional illiterates striving to improve themselves, as exemplified by your post.

kudos
del just couldn't leave this alone. :rollseyes:


2example transitive verb
ex·am·pled ex·am·pling \-p(ə-)liŋ\
1: to serve as an example of

2 archaic : to be or set an example to





http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/example

Now don't you feel silly?

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 10:03 AM
Catholics react to pope remarks on gays, abortion

NEW YORK (AP) — Catholics around the globe are reacting mostly positively to Pope Francis' recent remarks that the church has become too focused on "small-minded rules" on hot-button issues like homosexuality, abortion and contraceptives.

At Masses over the weekend, the faithful reflected on how they believe Francis' comments would impact the Catholic Church.

The pope said Thursday that pastors should focus less on divisive social issues and should emphasize compassion over condemnation.

Outside a church in Coral Gables, Fla. on Sunday, Frank Recio said he was grateful that the pope is trying to shift the tone of the church.


"I'm a devout Catholic, always have been. I think the Catholic Church had gotten out of touch with the way the world was evolving," said Recio, 69, who's retired from a career in the technology industry.

Irene Delgado, a practicing Catholic in Havana, Cuba, said the church needs to adapt to modern times.


"The world evolves, and I believe that the Catholic Church is seeing that it is being left behind, and that is not good," said Delgado, 57. "So I think that they chose this Pope Francis because he is progressive, has to change things."

http://news.yahoo.com/catholics-react-pope-remarks-gays-abortion-140129730.html


Where did the Pope say that abortion is acceptable? :D

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 10:09 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57603897/pope-francis-denounces-abortion-after-decrying-churchs-focus-on-rules/

Pope Francis offered an olive branch of sorts to the doctrine-minded,
conservative wing of the Catholic Church on Friday as he denounced
abortions as a symptom of today's "throw-away culture" and encouraged
Catholic doctors to refuse to perform them.

Francis
issued a strong anti-abortion message and cited Vatican teaching on the
need to defend the unborn during an audience with Catholic
gynecologists.






http://i.i.cbsi.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim2/2013/09/19/EN_0919_MILLER_220x157.jpg

Play Video

Pope Francis surprises the world with groundbreaking interview



It came a day after he was quoted as blasting the church's obsession with "small-minded rules" (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57603671/pope-francis-catholic-church-must-focus-beyond-small-minded-rules/)
that are driving the faithful away. In an interview that has sent
shockwaves through the church, Francis urged its pastors to focus on
being merciful and welcoming rather than insisting only on such
divisive, hot-button issues as abortion, gay marriage and contraception.

Even
before the interview was published, some conservatives had voiced
disappointment that Francis had shied away from restating such church
rules. Francis explained his reason for doing so in the interview with
the Jesuit journal La Civilta Cattolica, saying church teaching on such
issues is well-known, he supports it, but that he doesn't feel it
necessary to repeat it constantly.

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 10:11 AM
Are you a "Faux Catholic" if you ignore the infallible Pope and support pro-choice which leads to the death of the unborn? Curious.

junie
11-14-2013, 10:15 AM
Where did the Pope say that abortion is acceptable?


where did anyone claim "the pope said that abortion was 'acceptable' "...?

where did the pope say that ANY sin is 'acceptable'...?

junie
11-14-2013, 10:27 AM
this pope is a very wise man...



Pope Francis Tells American Clergy to Tone Down Rhetoric On Abortion and Other Social Issues Francis seems concerned that American Catholicism's most dire problem is its "narrow and alienating" focus on a number of hot-button political issues such as abortion. Addressing (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pope-francis-ambassador-u-s-bishops-shouldn-t-preach-ideology) American bishops on Monday at the first national meeting since the new Pope was elected, Carlo Maria Vigano, the Vatican's U.S. ambassador, told bishops they should not "follow a particular ideology" and focus on making the Church more welcoming. Relaying information from a recent audience with the Pope, Vigano reiterated that, "The Holy Father wants bishops in tune with their people ... pastoral bishops, not bishops who profess or follow a particular ideology."


http://www.policymic.com/articles/73125/pope-francis-tells-american-clergy-to-tone-down-rhetoric-on-abortion-and-other-social-issues




(http://www.policymic.com/articles/73125/pope-francis-tells-american-clergy-to-tone-down-rhetoric-on-abortion-and-other-social-issues)Poll: Pope Francis' Comments on Abortion, Homosexuality Win Strong Approval from US CatholicsPope Francis' recent comments on abortion, homosexuality and contraceptives have been praised by the majority of U.S. Catholics according to a new poll, with the Vatican leader enjoying a very high favorability rating in general.

(http://www.policymic.com/articles/73125/pope-francis-tells-american-clergy-to-tone-down-rhetoric-on-abortion-and-other-social-issues)"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context," Pope Francis said in an interview (http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview) conducted in August with Antonio Spadaro, S.J., editor in chief of La Civiltà Cattolica, an Italian Jesuit journal.


"A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: 'Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?' We must always consider the person," Francis added.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-pope-francis-comments-on-abortion-homosexuality-win-strong-approval-from-us-catholics-105959/




(http://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-pope-francis-comments-on-abortion-homosexuality-win-strong-approval-from-us-catholics-105959/)

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 10:29 AM
where did anyone claim "the pope said that abortion was 'acceptable' "...?

where did the pope say that ANY sin is 'acceptable'...?

The Catholic church unlike protestant religions has levels of sin. Abortion is a big no-no. So I ask can you be a "real Catholic" and support abortion, I mean, if you're not a real Catholic because you don't find the Pope infallible and being pro-legalizing a church abomination means you feel the pope is fallible or wrong then you are a faux Catholic if you believe in legalizing abortion.

junie
11-14-2013, 10:44 AM
The Catholic church unlike protestant religions has levels of sin. Abortion is a big no-no. So I ask can you be a "real Catholic" and support abortion, I mean, if you're not a real Catholic because you don't find the Pope infallible and being pro-legalizing a church abomination means you feel the pope is fallible or wrong then you are a faux Catholic if you believe in legalizing abortion.



what does it mean to you to 'support' abortion?

you either support individual liberty or you support government oppression of individual liberty. which do you support?

the pope supports toning down the self righteous rhetoric and being kind to individuals who choose to abort rather than condemn them.

Mainecoons
11-14-2013, 10:46 AM
It means that you approve of it an would do it yourself. That is a mortal sin under Catholicism.

If you aren't going to adhere to the rules of the religion, you should leave.

Mister D
11-14-2013, 10:58 AM
what does it mean to you to 'support' abortion?

you either support individual liberty or you support government oppression of individual liberty. which do you support?

the pope supports toning down the self righteous rhetoric and being kind to individuals who choose to abort rather than condemn them.

^^^ Faux Catholic

junie
11-14-2013, 11:06 AM
^^^ Faux Catholic


zzz should i be faux outraged now...?

Mister D
11-14-2013, 11:07 AM
zzz should i be faux outraged now...?

No, just embarrassed.

junie
11-14-2013, 11:11 AM
It means that you approve of it an would do it yourself. That is a mortal sin under Catholicism.

If you aren't going to adhere to the rules of the religion, you should leave.



adhere the the rules of what? no sinning allowed? lol

it's all about the forgiveness...let he who is without sin throw the first stone and all that jazz!


how DARE any of you sinners question the Pope's religion! :kiss:

Pope: 'Who am I to judge'

Mister D
11-14-2013, 11:13 AM
adhere the the rules of what? no sinning allowed? lol

it's all about the forgiveness...let he who is without sin throw the first stone and all that jazz!


how DARE any of you sinners question the Pope's religion! :kiss:

Pope: 'Who am I to judge'



^^^ Faux Catholic

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 11:15 AM
LMAO, kill, pillage, lie all you want. It's all about forgiveness. Only forgiveness matters when it comes to sin. LMAO!

Mister D
11-14-2013, 11:17 AM
LMAO, kill, pillage, lie all you want. It's all about forgiveness. Only forgiveness matters when it comes to sin. LMAO!

LOL I mean really...

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 11:20 AM
Is it like a score sheet where you are judged based on the overall amount of sin you have conducted, or does it work like a 'three strikes you're out' sort of thing?

Mister D
11-14-2013, 11:21 AM
Is it like a score sheet where you are judged based on the overall amount of sin you have conducted, or does it work like a 'three strikes you're out' sort of thing?

Apparently, you just do what you want.

jillian
11-14-2013, 11:26 AM
How many listen to your snarky nonsense, jillian? Not counting your tag-team acolytes.

projecting again, chris? lmao

junie
11-14-2013, 11:27 AM
LMAO, kill, pillage, lie all you want. It's all about forgiveness. Only forgiveness matters when it comes to sin. LMAO!


that's not even close to what the pope said, but you didn't post here to understand, you came to condemn... LMAO indeed. ^

Chris
11-14-2013, 11:28 AM
projecting again, chris? lmao

Just more snarkiness, no effort to discuss, blaming everyone else, poor jillian.

junie
11-14-2013, 11:32 AM
Just more snarkiness, no effort to discuss, blaming everyone else, poor jillian.



you mean like you just did? :wink:

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 11:36 AM
that's not even close to what the pope said, but you didn't post here to understand, you came to condemn... LMAO indeed. ^

I was making fun of you...

junie
11-14-2013, 11:37 AM
^^^ Faux Catholic



aww just look at you waving your 'pom poms' for the poor victimized provocateur...


most people who disagree with the church leave the church, they don't stay and claim 'we don't have to listen to the pope'. :laugh:

Mister D
11-14-2013, 11:37 AM
:facepalm:

Chris
11-14-2013, 11:39 AM
you mean like you just did? :wink:

No, I wasn't being snarky, l leave that to others. I'd rather see the snarkiness dropped for contributive, substative discussion. For example, code is asking your opinion, why not open up and give it? Don't be afraid, others may disagree but it doesn't hurt.

junie
11-14-2013, 11:39 AM
I was making fun of you...



who cares? :kiss:

junie
11-14-2013, 12:15 PM
my opinion is already obvious for anyone who cares to understand it, but i'm never one to drone on as if the topic is all about me me me.

when i have something to say, i say it...IF i have time to focus and articulate my thoughts...but i am working full-time over here and whenever i post substantive article clips which are informative and relevant to topics, all you can do is jab at my every post and snark at my 'pasties' while pretending you can't possible glean my point of view from my posts as they stand.

all you do is push buttons and then cry victim, forever turning threads into commentary on other posters...

you see 'nasty' and 'snarky' everywhere because that is how YOU think, not me...


" For example, code is asking your opinion, why not open up and give it? Don't be afraid, others may disagree but it doesn't hurt. "

i responded to his post, but i know how it just kills you when you can't control how people respond to others...

notice he never responded to mine, which doesn't bother me because i understand why.

the last part of your sentence there is 'snark' by the way, pfft as if i am 'afraid' to 'open up' and have others disagree? ooh ouchy! :laugh:

again, that's how YOU think, not me... i'm a busy person and don't have time for your tedious pettiness.



it is my opinion that it is morally reprehensible to support government oppression into private reproductive choice.

that does not mean that i think it is not morally reprehensible to abort a pregnancy...

when it comes to the legal and political issue i am pro-choice, which has nothing to do with what my personal choice might be.

i understand the pro-life political position and i respect those who hold that moral position, but i do not believe that it is a morally superior political position.

junie
11-14-2013, 12:22 PM
Women Who Have Abortions


Printable version of this fact sheet (http://www.prochoice.org/pubs_research/publications/downloads/about_abortion/women_who_have_abortions.pdf) (PDF file, 29K)

http://www.prochoice.org/images/global/dots545.gif
Unintended Pregnancy



Each year, almost half of all pregnancies among American women are unintended.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1) About half of these unplanned pregnancies, 1.3 million each year, are ended by abortion.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1),2 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#2)
There are many myths and misconceptions about who gets abortions, and why. The fact is that the women who have abortions come from all racial, ethnic, socioeconomic, and religious backgrounds. If current rates continue, it is estimated that 35% of all women of reproductive age in America today will have had an abortion by the time they reach the age of 45.3

(http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#3)
Measuring the Incidence of Abortion



The incidence of abortion can be tracked in two different ways. The first is simply to keep a tally of the total number of abortions obtained by women who fall into specified categories. Numbers tracked in this way are usually expressed as a percentage of all abortions provided in a year. Alternatively, the rate of abortion can be measured by calculating the total number of abortions obtained per 1,000 women who make up the total population in each category.


Age


Women between the ages of 15 and 19 account for about 19% of all abortions; women 20 to 24 account for another 33%; and about 25% of abortions are obtained by women who are 30 or older.4 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4) Calculating abortion rates, older teenagers and young adults have the highest abortion rates, while women younger than 15 and older than 35 have the lowest.4

(http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4)

Length of Pregnancy


Most abortions (88%) are obtained in the first trimester of pregnancy. In fact, over half of all abortions are obtained within the first 8 weeks. Fewer than 2% occur at 21 weeks or later.5

(http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#5)
Education, Residence, and Income



Of the women obtaining abortions in 2000:


57% had some college education;
88% were from metropolitan areas; and
57% percent were low-income.4 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4)

Marital Status


Most women getting abortions (83%) are unmarried; 67% have never married, and 16% are separated, divorced, or widowed.4 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4) Married women are significantly less likely than unmarried women to resolve unintended pregnancies through abortion.6

(http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#6)

Religion


Women who obtain abortions represent every religious affiliation. 13% of abortion patients describe themselves as born-again or Evangelical Christians4 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4); while 22% of U.S. women are Catholic,7 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#7) 27% of abortion patients say they are Catholics.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1)



http://www.prochoice.org/images/global/dots545.gif
MYTH: Women are using abortion as a method of birth control.



In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1) Some of these couples had used the method improperly; some had forgotten or neglected to use it on the particular occasion they conceived; and some had used a contraceptive that failed. No contraceptive method prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.



If abortion were used as a primary method of birth control, a typical woman would have at least two or three pregnancies per year - 30 or more during her lifetime. In fact, most women who have abortions have had no previous abortions (52%) or only one previous abortion (26%).5 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#5) Considering that most women are fertile for over 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high.



MYTH: Women have abortions for selfish or frivolous reasons.



The decision to have an abortion is rarely simple. Most women base their decision on several factors, the most common being lack of money and/or unreadiness to start or expand their families due to existing responsibilities. Many feel that the most responsible course of action is to wait until their situation is more suited to childrearing; 66% plan to have children when they are older, financially able to provide necessities for them, and/or in a supportive relationship with a partner so their children will have two parents.8 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#8) Others wanted to get pregnant but developed serious medical problems, learned that the fetus had severe abnormalities, or experienced some other personal crisis. About 13,000 women each year have abortions because they have become pregnant as a result of rape or incest.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1)


http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

Chris
11-14-2013, 12:28 PM
my opinion is already obvious for anyone who cares to understand it, but i'm never one to drone on as if the topic is all about me me me.

when i have something to say, i say it...IF i have time to focus and articulate my thoughts...but i am working full-time over here and whenever i post substantive article clips which are informative and relevant to topics, all you can do is jab at my every post and snark at my 'pasties' while pretending you can't possible glean my point of view from my posts as they stand.

all you do is push buttons and then cry victim, forever turning threads into commentary on other posters...

you see 'nasty' and 'snarky' everywhere because that is how YOU think, not me...


" For example, code is asking your opinion, why not open up and give it? Don't be afraid, others may disagree but it doesn't hurt. "

i responded to his post, but i know how it just kills you when you can't control how people respond to others...

notice he never responded to mine, which doesn't bother me because i understand why.

the last part of your sentence there is 'snark' by the way, pfft as if i am 'afraid' to 'open up' and have others disagree? ooh ouchy! :laugh:

again, that's how YOU think, not me... i'm a busy person and don't have time for your tedious pettiness.



it is my opinion that it is morally reprehensible to support government oppression into private reproductive choice.

that does not mean that i think it is not morally reprehensible to abort a pregnancy...

when it comes to the legal and political issue i am pro-choice, which has nothing to do with what my personal choice might be.

i understand the pro-life political position and i respect those who hold that moral position, but i do not believe that it is a morally superior political position.


Sorry, but what is your opinion on the topic. Enough already with taking and making everything into a personal pissing contest, that's boring and boorish. No, I don't see snarky everywhere, I see it it mainly in two people, in their posts, and posts are fair game for comment and criticism, people ought not to be. And no I'm not crying victim or trying to control, a contradiction on your part btw--you're like happy making things up in his imagination and then criticizing what he makes up, when he, like you, is just projecting. Think not, here you are seeing snarky where none is and crying victim about it all the while trying to tell me how to post:


the last part of your sentence there is 'snark' by the way, pfft as if i am 'afraid' to 'open up' and have others disagree? ooh ouchy!

That's pure hypocrisy.



it is my opinion that it is morally reprehensible to support government oppression into private reproductive choice.

Did you forget the topic in your rage?

junie
11-14-2013, 12:34 PM
Women Who Have Abortions


Printable version of this fact sheet (http://www.prochoice.org/pubs_research/publications/downloads/about_abortion/women_who_have_abortions.pdf) (PDF file, 29K)

http://www.prochoice.org/images/global/dots545.gif
Unintended Pregnancy



Each year, almost half of all pregnancies among American women are unintended.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1) About half of these unplanned pregnancies, 1.3 million each year, are ended by abortion.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1),2 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#2)
There are many myths and misconceptions about who gets abortions, and why. The fact is that the women who have abortions come from all racial, ethnic, socioeconomic, and religious backgrounds. If current rates continue, it is estimated that 35% of all women of reproductive age in America today will have had an abortion by the time they reach the age of 45.3

(http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#3)
Measuring the Incidence of Abortion



The incidence of abortion can be tracked in two different ways. The first is simply to keep a tally of the total number of abortions obtained by women who fall into specified categories. Numbers tracked in this way are usually expressed as a percentage of all abortions provided in a year. Alternatively, the rate of abortion can be measured by calculating the total number of abortions obtained per 1,000 women who make up the total population in each category.


Age


Women between the ages of 15 and 19 account for about 19% of all abortions; women 20 to 24 account for another 33%; and about 25% of abortions are obtained by women who are 30 or older.4 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4) Calculating abortion rates, older teenagers and young adults have the highest abortion rates, while women younger than 15 and older than 35 have the lowest.4

(http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4)

Length of Pregnancy


Most abortions (88%) are obtained in the first trimester of pregnancy. In fact, over half of all abortions are obtained within the first 8 weeks. Fewer than 2% occur at 21 weeks or later.5

(http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#5)
Education, Residence, and Income



Of the women obtaining abortions in 2000:


57% had some college education;
88% were from metropolitan areas; and
57% percent were low-income.4 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4)

Marital Status


Most women getting abortions (83%) are unmarried; 67% have never married, and 16% are separated, divorced, or widowed.4 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4) Married women are significantly less likely than unmarried women to resolve unintended pregnancies through abortion.6

(http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#6)

Religion


Women who obtain abortions represent every religious affiliation. 13% of abortion patients describe themselves as born-again or Evangelical Christians4 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#4); while 22% of U.S. women are Catholic,7 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#7) 27% of abortion patients say they are Catholics.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1)



http://www.prochoice.org/images/global/dots545.gif
MYTH: Women are using abortion as a method of birth control.



In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1) Some of these couples had used the method improperly; some had forgotten or neglected to use it on the particular occasion they conceived; and some had used a contraceptive that failed. No contraceptive method prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.



If abortion were used as a primary method of birth control, a typical woman would have at least two or three pregnancies per year - 30 or more during her lifetime. In fact, most women who have abortions have had no previous abortions (52%) or only one previous abortion (26%).5 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#5) Considering that most women are fertile for over 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high.



MYTH: Women have abortions for selfish or frivolous reasons.



The decision to have an abortion is rarely simple. Most women base their decision on several factors, the most common being lack of money and/or unreadiness to start or expand their families due to existing responsibilities. Many feel that the most responsible course of action is to wait until their situation is more suited to childrearing; 66% plan to have children when they are older, financially able to provide necessities for them, and/or in a supportive relationship with a partner so their children will have two parents.8 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#8) Others wanted to get pregnant but developed serious medical problems, learned that the fetus had severe abnormalities, or experienced some other personal crisis. About 13,000 women each year have abortions because they have become pregnant as a result of rape or incest.1 (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html#1)


http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html









^ i do not believe that all those women who choose to abort a pregnancy are morally reprehensible... some may be, but who am i to judge?




In a 7-2 decision written by Justice Harry Blackmun (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/supremecourt/rights/robes_blackmun.html) (who was chosen because of his prior experience as counsel to the Mayo Clinic), the Court ruled that the Texas statute violated Jane Roe's constitutional right to privacy. The Court argued that the Constitution's First, Fourth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments protect an individual's "zone of privacy" against state laws and cited past cases ruling that marriage, contraception, and child rearing are activities covered in this "zone of privacy."

The Court then argued that the "zone of privacy" was "broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy." This decision involved myriad physical, psychological, and economic stresses a pregnant woman must face. Because abortions lie within a pregnant woman's "zone of privacy," the abortion decision "and its effectuation" are fundamental rights that are protected by the Constitution from regulation by the states...

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/supremecourt/rights/landmark_roe.html

Chris
11-14-2013, 12:36 PM
So much for the Pope and Palin....

jillian
11-14-2013, 12:37 PM
Sorry, but what is your opinion on the topic. Enough already with taking and making everything into a personal pissing contest, that's boring and boorish. No, I don't see snarky everywhere, I see it it mainly in two people, in their posts, and posts are fair game for comment and criticism, people ought not to be. And no I'm not crying victim or trying to control, a contradiction on your part btw--you're like happy making things up in his imagination and then criticizing what he makes up, when he, like you, is just projecting. Think not, here you are seeing snarky where none is and crying victim about it all the while trying to tell me how to post:

her opinion is clear. and you're the one, once again, whining about snarkiness.


That's pure hypocrisy.

yes, your crying about other people's observations while whining yourself, is hypocritical.



Did you forget the topic in your rage?

do you think your using the word "rage" proves someone else is enraged.

you seem to be projecting again.

maybe if you had a nice cup of chamomile tea or something, you wouldn't be so agitated.

jillian
11-14-2013, 12:38 PM
I was making fun of you...

is that what you were doing? funny, it sounds like your usual snarkiness, chris... oh... i mean... tania.

Chris
11-14-2013, 12:44 PM
her opinion is clear. and you're the one, once again, whining about snarkiness.



yes, your crying about other people's observations while whining yourself, is hypocritical.




do you think your using the word "rage" proves someone else is enraged.

you seem to be projecting again.

maybe if you had a nice cup of chamomile tea or something, you wouldn't be so agitated.



I said nothing about junie being snarky. I'm not complaining about anything but people taking and making things personal, it's boring and boorish. Rage means out of control, junie's off topic, so are you with making things up. Poor jillian.

Chris
11-14-2013, 12:44 PM
is that what you were doing? funny, it sounds like your usual snarkiness, chris... oh... i mean... tania.

Do you ever post on topic? Just constant ragging on others.

junie
11-14-2013, 12:48 PM
"In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them, starting from their situation. It is necessary to accompany them with mercy. When that happens, the Holy Spirit inspires the priest to say the right thing. …"



"Quinnipiac University Polling Institute director suggested[/URL] that the poll results reflect Catholics embracing the first-ever pope from the Jesuit order.

The Quinnipiac University poll asked a series of other questions relating to social issues...and 16 percent said that it should be illegal in all cases."

[URL]http://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-pope-francis-comments-on-abortion-homosexuality-win-strong-approval-from-us-catholics-105959/ (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20816309-poll-us-catholics-embrace-pope-francis?lite)

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 12:49 PM
is that what you were doing? funny, it sounds like your usual snarkiness, chris... oh... i mean... tania.

It was my usual snakiness. Good to see there is some cognitive function in that empty head of yours. And you've figured that out all on your own too! That deserves a rep!

Alyosha
11-14-2013, 12:53 PM
You cannot support pro-abortion legislation and take the Eucharist. This has come down from the Bishops. Without taking the Eucharist you are not a practicing Catholic. You are a lapsed Catholic. Fake is not a term used by the Catholic church. You are in the Body of Christ or outside it. We are not to judge others sin while we sin, but we are allowed to give an opinion on the subject and in fact have been commanded to do so.

Pope Francis told Catholic doctors not to perform abortions. The Popes have told us not to vote for legislation supporting abortion. All Popes have told us to work tirelessly against the destruction of life.

No one forces anyone to be Catholic. If you choose not to follow the rules, then become an Episcopalian or something better suited to your religions beliefs.

I don't like Ravi at all but I'm not going to say what kind of Catholic she is nor should anyone else. Ravi should probably also refrain from saying anyone else is real or fake as a Catholic.

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 12:54 PM
Do you ever post on topic? Just constant ragging on others.

Shhh, it's baby steps. Jillian slow evolving from a rambling fool to a somewhat decent thinking. That really deserves a rep and I'm going to give her one.

As soon as I figure out how to do it...

Alyosha
11-14-2013, 12:54 PM
"In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them, starting from their situation. It is necessary to accompany them with mercy. When that happens, the Holy Spirit inspires the priest to say the right thing. …"



"Quinnipiac University Polling Institute director suggested that the poll results reflect Catholics embracing the first-ever pope from the Jesuit order.

The Quinnipiac University poll asked a series of other questions relating to social issues...and 16 percent said that it should be illegal in all cases."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-pope-francis-comments-on-abortion-homosexuality-win-strong-approval-from-us-catholics-105959/

The Catholic Church has not ever been a democracy. Join the Quakers. They are.

junie
11-14-2013, 01:13 PM
:pope:

Pope Francis said the Catholic Church must shake off an obsession with teachings on abortion, contraception and homosexuality and become more merciful or risk the collapse of its entire moral edifice "like a house of cards"... he said the Church must find a new balance between upholding rules and demonstrating mercy.

He added: "Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free. It is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/19/us-pope-interview-idUSBRE98I0S920130919



:applause: (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/19/us-pope-interview-idUSBRE98I0S920130919)

jillian
11-14-2013, 01:15 PM
Do you ever post on topic? Just constant ragging on others.

you should feel free to ask yourself that same question.

but that whole introspection thing just isn't you. we know that.

now, please, spend another 30 posts arguing about the definition of introspection.

and when you're done... you can spend another 30 deciding what you think the proper phonetic spelling is of a yiddish word.

that should keep you busy for the rest of the day.

let me know when you're done.

Chris
11-14-2013, 01:18 PM
you should feel free to ask yourself that same question.

but that whole introspection thing just isn't you. we know that.

now, please, spend another 30 posts arguing about the definition of introspection.

and when you're done... you can spend another 30 deciding what you think the proper phonetic spelling is of a yiddish word.

that should keep you busy for the rest of the day.

let me know when you're done.

Still babbling I see. Any thoughts on the Pope and Palin?

nic34
11-14-2013, 01:40 PM
The Pope is moving the church toward the modern world....

Palin is moving away....

jillian
11-14-2013, 01:41 PM
The Pope is moving the church toward the modern world....

Palin is moving away....


palin is an opportunistic wackadoodle....

Mister D
11-14-2013, 01:43 PM
The Pope is moving the church toward the modern world....

Palin is moving away....

Neither is true. Moreover, the statement itself is meaningless. If the prevailing "modern" sentiment is immoral what is good about embracing it?

Chris
11-14-2013, 01:43 PM
The Pope is moving the church toward the modern world....

Palin is moving away....


Maybe the vision of the modern world isn't all it's stacked up to be, yours that is, saying nothing about Pope or Palin.

nic34
11-14-2013, 01:50 PM
By all means, we should back to medieval times everyone misses so much... witch hunts and all.....

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 01:50 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/20/pope-blasts-abortion-afte_0_n_3961888.html
In his comments, Francis denounced today's "throw-away culture" that
justifies disposing of lives, and said doctors in particular had been
forced into situations where they are called to "not respect life."

"Every child that isn't born, but is unjustly condemned to be
aborted, has the face of Jesus Christ, has the face of the Lord," he
said.

He urged the gynecologists to abide by their consciences and help
bring lives into the world. "Things have a price and can be for sale,
but people have a dignity that is priceless and worth far more than
things," he said.

Mister D
11-14-2013, 01:51 PM
By all means, we should back to medieval times everyone misses so much... witch hunts and all.....

Actually, that was more of an early modern phenomenon. In any case, it's a bizarre tangent.

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 01:51 PM
By all means, we should back to medieval times everyone misses so much... witch hunts and all.....

So it's all or nothing? People should embrace this or go back to witch hunts? Dude...

jillian
11-14-2013, 01:53 PM
Maybe the vision of the modern world isn't all it's stacked up to be, yours that is, saying nothing about Pope or Palin.

or maybe yours would be a dickensian nightmare.

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 01:59 PM
or maybe everyone on this thread is acting like an annoying baby?

A thread about the Pope turns into Bitchfest2013. Typical.

junie
11-14-2013, 01:59 PM
Neither is true. Moreover, the statement itself is meaningless.


If the prevailing "modern" sentiment is immoral what is good about embracing it?


do you really think that's what the pope has done? he's embraced immorality? really?

the pope rejects your premise in hopes that mercy becomes a 'modern sentiment' rather than the self righteous rhetoric of condemning people.

nic34
11-14-2013, 02:00 PM
Dude, everyone romaticizes the past...... when its past.

I for one don't want to go back to sweat shops, child labor, no unions, shantytowns, or the Dickensian poverty of the 19th century.... I am greatful for the advances we have made and will not go back.

The Pope and his church are coming along at their own pace.

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 02:02 PM
Show of hands for who is romanticizing the past? Yeh, I don't see any hands up. I think that we are morally pretty fucked lately. Look at the single parent homes, even pro-abortion sites say 1 in 3 women will have one, we have kids who will shove their families in nursing homes who can afford to have their parents with them...we have no sense of family anymore.

Some things are a lot better than the past and some are worse.

jillian
11-14-2013, 02:04 PM
Show of hands for who is romanticizing the past? Yeh, I don't see any hands up. I think that we are morally pretty fucked lately. Look at the single parent homes, even pro-abortion sites say 1 in 3 women will have one, we have kids who will shove their families in nursing homes who can afford to have their parents with them...we have no sense of family anymore.

Some things are a lot better than the past and some are worse.

true of most things.

but not having government be able to force me to have a transvaginal ultrasound? priceless.

junie
11-14-2013, 02:05 PM
Palin shares some Catholics’ concerns about Pope Francis and his ‘liberal’ agenda
A recent Quinnipiac University poll found that two-thirds of American Catholics share the pope’s concerns that the church had become “obsessed” with a few social issues.


“I think he was completely right,” said Katie Stacy, who works at a Catholic-run pregnancy clinic in Georgia. “The focus should be not only on love and mercy, but on treating the women in these crisis situations with love and mercy.”


The pope is the most popular person (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/12/pope-francis-wins-the-internet-literally/?sr=fb111313popefrancisinternet1a) on the Internet, according to the 14th annual survey from the Global Language Monitor

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/13/palin-shares-some-catholics-concerns-about-pope-francis-and-his-liberal-agenda/


^ if the pope posted on this forum most fools would probably attack him as an evil libtard! :pope:

Codename Section
11-14-2013, 02:07 PM
true of most things.

but not having government be able to force me to have a transvaginal ultrasound? priceless.

The day the government runs over to you, holds you down and rapes you with a transvaginal ultrasound you can use the word "force". Having an additional procedure to an elective surgery that also include a transvaginal "appliance" is not force. It's an additional procedure that most women wouldn't have even known they didn't want until PP told them they didn't want it.

Seriously you already have a suction tube shoved up there.

Force is you make a routine traffic stop at Walmart, the cops put you in handcuffs drive you to a hospital and force a colonscopy and 2 enemas.

Mister D
11-14-2013, 02:08 PM
Palin shares some Catholics’ concerns about Pope Francis and his ‘liberal’ agenda


A recent Quinnipiac University poll found that two-thirds of American Catholics share the pope’s concerns that the church had become “obsessed” with a few social issues.


“I think he was completely right,” said Katie Stacy, who works at a Catholic-run pregnancy clinic in Georgia. “The focus should be not only on love and mercy, but on treating the women in these crisis situations with love and mercy.”


The pope is the most popular person (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/12/pope-francis-wins-the-internet-literally/?sr=fb111313popefrancisinternet1a) on the Internet, according to the 14th annual survey from the Global Language Monitor

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/13/palin-shares-some-catholics-concerns-about-pope-francis-and-his-liberal-agenda/


^ if the pope posted on this forum most fools would probably attack him as an evil libtard! :pope:

absolutely. I can see Jillian calling him a misogynist who wants to humiliate women. I can see you two sycophants nodding your empty heads in approval.

Chris
11-14-2013, 02:08 PM
By all means, we should back to medieval times everyone misses so much... witch hunts and all.....

Neither Palin nor the Pope are asking for that, nic.

jillian
11-14-2013, 02:08 PM
absolutely. I can see Jillian calling him a misogynist who wants to humiliate women. I can see you two sycophants nodding your empty heads in approval.

no. you really can't. now stop being a nasty troll and be a good little boy. and stop attributing your behavior toward chris to others.

thanks.

Mister D
11-14-2013, 02:11 PM
Dude, everyone romaticizes the past...... when its past.

I for one don't want to go back to sweat shops, child labor, no unions, shantytowns, or the Dickensian poverty of the 19th century.... I am greatful for the advances we have made and will not go back.

The Pope and his church are coming along at their own pace.

pssst...you might want to read up on the social policies of the RCC in the 19th Century particularly with regard to the excesses of capitalism and the market.

Hundreds of years from now what will they consider more barbaric: the 12th Century or the 20th?

Alyosha
11-14-2013, 02:11 PM
Palin shares some Catholics’ concerns about Pope Francis and his ‘liberal’ agenda


A recent Quinnipiac University poll found that two-thirds of American Catholics share the pope’s concerns that the church had become “obsessed” with a few social issues.


“I think he was completely right,” said Katie Stacy, who works at a Catholic-run pregnancy clinic in Georgia. “The focus should be not only on love and mercy, but on treating the women in these crisis situations with love and mercy.”


The pope is the most popular person (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/12/pope-francis-wins-the-internet-literally/?sr=fb111313popefrancisinternet1a) on the Internet, according to the 14th annual survey from the Global Language Monitor

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/13/palin-shares-some-catholics-concerns-about-pope-francis-and-his-liberal-agenda/


^ if the pope posted on this forum most fools would probably attack him as an evil libtard! :pope:


I highly doubt that the liberals on this forum would love him. Green Arrow says a lot of the same things and people on here shit all over him.

Mister D
11-14-2013, 02:11 PM
no. you really can't. now stop being a nasty troll and be a good little boy. and stop attributing your behavior toward chris to others.

thanks.

You really need some new lines. At least you don't revert to baby talk anymore. :smiley:

Chris
11-14-2013, 02:13 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/20/pope-blasts-abortion-afte_0_n_3961888.html
In his comments, Francis denounced today's "throw-away culture" that
justifies disposing of lives, and said doctors in particular had been
forced into situations where they are called to "not respect life."

"Every child that isn't born, but is unjustly condemned to be
aborted, has the face of Jesus Christ, has the face of the Lord," he
said.

He urged the gynecologists to abide by their consciences and help
bring lives into the world. "Things have a price and can be for sale,
but people have a dignity that is priceless and worth far more than
things," he said.

Seems to me Palin would agree with that.

Alyosha
11-14-2013, 02:13 PM
The Pope says that abortion is a mortal sin. He would not be loved by forum liberals. He said that we should focus on charity, forgiveness, love and inclusiveness but has reiterated that it is a mortal sin.

HOWEVER, very few people on here are practicing Catholics. Unless you're practicing why does it matter to you?

Chris
11-14-2013, 02:14 PM
or maybe yours would be a dickensian nightmare.

Dickens was a capitalist not a socialist, jillian, we've been over this many times.

Mister D
11-14-2013, 02:14 PM
Neither Palin nor the Pope are asking for that, nic.

Better still, we have witch hunts now the difference being that the "witches" are perceived political or ideological opponents.

Chris
11-14-2013, 02:17 PM
Show of hands for who is romanticizing the past? Yeh, I don't see any hands up. I think that we are morally pretty fucked lately. Look at the single parent homes, even pro-abortion sites say 1 in 3 women will have one, we have kids who will shove their families in nursing homes who can afford to have their parents with them...we have no sense of family anymore.

Some things are a lot better than the past and some are worse.

We advance materialistically, but very little morally.

Chris
11-14-2013, 02:19 PM
or maybe everyone on this thread is acting like an annoying baby?

A thread about the Pope turns into Bitchfest2013. Typical.


no. you really can't. now stop being a nasty troll and be a good little boy. and stop attributing your behavior toward chris to others.

thanks.



Oh, come on, code, who might that be?

Ravi
11-14-2013, 02:19 PM
Palin shares some Catholics’ concerns about Pope Francis and his ‘liberal’ agenda


A recent Quinnipiac University poll found that two-thirds of American Catholics share the pope’s concerns that the church had become “obsessed” with a few social issues.


“I think he was completely right,” said Katie Stacy, who works at a Catholic-run pregnancy clinic in Georgia. “The focus should be not only on love and mercy, but on treating the women in these crisis situations with love and mercy.”


The pope is the most popular person (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/12/pope-francis-wins-the-internet-literally/?sr=fb111313popefrancisinternet1a) on the Internet, according to the 14th annual survey from the Global Language Monitor

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/13/palin-shares-some-catholics-concerns-about-pope-francis-and-his-liberal-agenda/


^ if the pope posted on this forum most fools would probably attack him as an evil libtard! :pope:
You betcha!

junie
11-14-2013, 02:20 PM
:pope:



" The dean of the National Cathedral in Washington, D.C. gave an address this week that not only stated that he supports gay rights in every way, but he even went as far as saying that it is a sin to oppose homosexuality. Yes, a sin.



The message was shared during a tribute to gay youth at the National Cathedral, a political event to promote gay rights. The event also commemorated the slaying of Mathew Shepherd, whose death was used as the catalyst to passing a hate crimes bill by President Barack Obama back in 2009. The dean of the cathedral, Gary Hall, says that churches across the country are at fault for sharing views that are against the gay lifestyle.



“We must now have the courage to take the final step and call homοphobia and heterosexism what they are. They are sin. Homophobia is a sin. Heterosexism is a sin. Shaming people for whom they love is a sin,” Hall said. “Only when all our churches say that clearly and boldly and courageously will our LGBT youth be free to grow up in a culture that totally embraces them fully as they are.”




“It’s more than tragic—in fact it’s shameful—that faith communities, especially Christian ones, continue to be complicit in putting our children at risk and abetting the attitudes that oppress them, thereby encouraging the aggressors who would subject our children to pain, humiliation, and violence,” Hall stated. "



http://allchristiannews.com/dean-of-national-cathedral-says-that-not-supporting-gay-rights-may-condemn-you-to-hell/





:applause:

Alyosha
11-14-2013, 02:21 PM
Sarah Palin is a protestant. Protestants don't believe what Catholic's believe. There are a lot of "liberal" aspects to the Catholic church and "conservative" ones. You can choose to be a Catholic or not choose.

I have no idea how this is news or why this thread can go on for 24 pages except that it feeds into the grudge matches in appropriate lines.

Alyosha
11-14-2013, 02:23 PM
:pope:



" The dean of the National Cathedral in Washington, D.C. gave an address this week that not only stated that he supports gay rights in every way, but he even went as far as saying that it is a sin to oppose homosexuality. Yes, a sin.



The message was shared during a tribute to gay youth at the National Cathedral, a political event to promote gay rights. The event also commemorated the slaying of Mathew Shepherd, whose death was used as the catalyst to passing a hate crimes bill by President Barack Obama back in 2009. The dean of the cathedral, Gary Hall, says that churches across the country are at fault for sharing views that are against the gay lifestyle.



“We must now have the courage to take the final step and call homοphobia and heterosexism what they are. They are sin. Homophobia is a sin. Heterosexism is a sin. Shaming people for whom they love is a sin,” Hall said. “Only when all our churches say that clearly and boldly and courageously will our LGBT youth be free to grow up in a culture that totally embraces them fully as they are.”




“It’s more than tragic—in fact it’s shameful—that faith communities, especially Christian ones, continue to be complicit in putting our children at risk and abetting the attitudes that oppress them, thereby encouraging the aggressors who would subject our children to pain, humiliation, and violence,” Hall stated. "



http://allchristiannews.com/dean-of-national-cathedral-says-that-not-supporting-gay-rights-may-condemn-you-to-hell/





:applause:


They're Episcopalians. Some might not know that.

Mister D
11-14-2013, 02:23 PM
lol

junie
11-14-2013, 02:23 PM
Sarah Palin is a protestant. Protestants don't believe what Catholic's believe. There are a lot of "liberal" aspects to the Catholic church and "conservative" ones. You can choose to be a Catholic or not choose.

I have no idea how this is news or why this thread can go on for 24 pages except that it feeds into the grudge matches in appropriate lines.


intellestink... you have a 'grudge match' going, eh?

Mainecoons
11-14-2013, 02:23 PM
The Dean of the National Cathedral is not a Catholic. He is an Episcopalian, a member of a religion that was started by a British King who was on the outs with a Pope.

You do understand the difference, don't you Junie?

The topic here is what Palin said about the Pope. It is not about what some other johnny come lately religion says about homosexuals.

Chris
11-14-2013, 02:24 PM
The Pope says that abortion is a mortal sin. He would not be loved by forum liberals. He said that we should focus on charity, forgiveness, love and inclusiveness but has reiterated that it is a mortal sin.

HOWEVER, very few people on here are practicing Catholics. Unless you're practicing why does it matter to you?



Isn't his message and influence broader than just Catholics? While not religious I do value religion as a social institution that stands between us and barbarity and government. Certainly he has great influence on Catholic voting populations here in the US and elsewhere.

Alyosha
11-14-2013, 02:25 PM
intellestink... you have a 'grudge match' going, eh?

Where on this thread have I participated in name-calling?


Know thyself, Junie.

Alyosha
11-14-2013, 02:26 PM
Isn't his message and influence broader than just Catholics? While not religious I do value religion as a social institution that stands between us and barbarity and government. Certainly he has great influence on Catholic voting populations here in the US and elsewhere.


We live in a secular state that eschews religion.

junie
11-14-2013, 02:26 PM
The Dean of the National Cathedral is not a Catholic. He is an Episcopalian, a member of a religion that was started by a British King who was on the outs with a Pope.

You do understand the difference, don't you?



of course it's not too difficult to grasp that not all Christians are Catholics. do you have a point?

junie
11-14-2013, 02:27 PM
Where on this thread have I participated in name-calling?


Know thyself, Junie.


you mentioned a 'grudge match'... so who do you hold a grudge against?

Ravi
11-14-2013, 02:28 PM
intellestink... you have a 'grudge match' going, eh?It's okay for Palin to criticize the pope. ;)