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View Full Version : Ok let's do the Math on ObamaCare and enough with the Makebeleive Bull Shit



Cigar
11-14-2013, 08:47 AM
What's the REAL impact of "you can keep your insurance"?
Almost everybody reading this post is not affected by this in the least and there are roughly 320 million people in this country.

About 85% of us get health insurance through an employer, Medicare, Medicaid, or through The VA. That means about 270 million of us are not affected at all by healthcare.gov web site issues or by junk individual policies that are being cancelled.

Among the 50 million who are affected, 40 million had no insurance at all, so it isn't like the ACA or the website problems made their situations worse. They are either better off or the same. Enough said ... End of Story, Yea for American's.

That leaves 10 million. Roughly half of those are able to keep the plan they already have because it complies with the ACA and their insurance company still offers it.

This leaves 5 million people that are losing their coverage and forced to buy a new plan. Among those, roughly half will have access to a cheaper and better plan than they had before. The website issues affect these people and will be fixed and they'll be alright.

That leaves about 2.5 million people that are in a bind. Their insurance costs will be higher than before, even if the coverage is better. 1/120th of the population. 1 out of every 120 people in this country have every right to be pissed about the ACA, at least in the short term.

But 40 million people... 1 out of 8.... have access to insurance now who didn't have it before. The math doesn't work for the opponents of the ACA once that 1/8 gets insurance. That is why they are desperate to kill it in the crib.

What the GOP and their friends in the media have been trying to do is to convince everyone that THEY are one of the 1/120 of the population that is being adversely affected. The only way they kill it is if they convince enough of the voting public that it harms THEM.

As a utilitarian ... I accept policies that help (or don't harm) 119/120 of the population while inconveniencing, in the short run, 1/120 of the population.

President Obama is only losing the message war right now. But the math is in The President's favor... and long term, the ACA is an enormous positive for Democrats. And the GOP knows it.

Enough with the Bull Shit.

Mainecoons
11-14-2013, 08:49 AM
Most of the make believe bullshit on this board would disappear if you did.

keymanjim
11-14-2013, 08:51 AM
Most of the make believe bullshit on this board would disappear if you did.
Every court has to have a jester.

Cigar
11-14-2013, 08:51 AM
Most of the make believe bullshit on this board would disappear if you did.

So everyone you have Balls ... and Make Me :wink:

Now ... back to the FACT or will you provide your FACTS that dispute this?

Or just cry like a little Bitch?

keymanjim
11-14-2013, 08:52 AM
What's the REAL impact of "you can keep your insurance"?

There will be no doctors to provide the care the insurance is suppose to pay for.

But, hey! Ya got insurance. And, that's what's important. AMIRITE?

Cigar
11-14-2013, 08:56 AM
This is a typical response when The Right has no retort and they are Exposed for their Bull Shit.

http://www.jackcolemanphoto.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/obama-mission-accomplished.jpg

Cigar
11-14-2013, 08:57 AM
There will be no doctors to provide the care the insurance is suppose to pay for.

But, hey! Ya got insurance. And, that's what's important. AMIRITE?

Data Please?

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 09:03 AM
Doing math is easy when you make up the numbers.

Cigar
11-14-2013, 09:06 AM
Doing math is easy when you make up the numbers.

Typical Denials ... nothing new here.

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 09:08 AM
Typical Denials ... nothing new here.

For once, you're right. I often find that when I let people talk, it's very easy for me to point out how much they don't understand what they are talking about.

By why would I point out how erroneous your math is when you can't even get the statistics correct? LMAO, embarrassing.

Cigar
11-14-2013, 09:11 AM
Ask any Conservative Republican what's their Plan for Health Care for 40 million Americans who had no insurance at all.

Wait for the Answer ....

Chances are it's Fuck Them.

... and that's why they're reduced to bitching.

patrickt
11-14-2013, 09:13 AM
A. Cigar you didn't cite your source.
B. Cut out the bullshit.

Cigar
11-14-2013, 09:14 AM
For once, you're right. I often find that when I let people talk, it's very easy for me to point out how much they don't understand what they are talking about.

By why would I point out how erroneous your math is when you can't even get the statistics correct? LMAO, embarrassing.

Why would anyone be embarrassed for Wining?

I'd see if one was losing all the time ... but ObamaCare is The Law.

So ... Laugh you Clown ... Laugh until it Hurts. :laugh:

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 09:14 AM
Ask any Conservative Republican what's their Plan for Health Care for 40 million Americans who had no insurance at all.

Wait for the Answer ....

Chances are it's Fuck Them.

... and that's why they're reduced to bitching.

*YAWN* That's nice, that you'd like to distract from your faulty numbers, but no one bothered to ask me what my plan was.

Then again, I can't make more money from all the blunders of the new Health Care Law.

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 09:16 AM
Why would anyone be embarrassed for Wining?

I'd see if one was losing all the time ... but ObamaCare is The Law.

So ... Laugh you Clown ... Laugh until it Hurts. :laugh:

You're winning? How?

Your healthcare law sucks, enrollments miss their mark, and barely anyone is interested in signing in.

But yeah, Obamacare is the law so it's an empty victory nonetheless.

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 09:18 AM
.

About 85% of us get health insurance through an employer, Medicare, Medicaid, or through The VA. That means about 270 million of us are not affected at all by healthcare.gov web site issues or by junk individual policies that are being cancelled.

Wow, the initial OP is even more inaccurate than I thought.

keymanjim
11-14-2013, 09:18 AM
Ask any Conservative Republican what's their Plan for Health Care for 40 million Americans who had no insurance at all.

Wait for the Answer ....

Chances are it's Fuck Them.

... and that's why they're reduced to bitching.
How many of those 40 million actually needed it and how many made the conscious decision to just not have it?

Cigar
11-14-2013, 09:20 AM
A. Cigar you didn't cite your source.
B. Cut out the bullshit.

This has been talked about a for two years, these ratios have been used to well over a years.

WHO on This Forum is part of the fractional open market insurers who received a letter from their insurer, and actually looked at the ACA and found that their Insurance is more.

I'd bet no one ... and I'd bet they would prove it either.

Cigar
11-14-2013, 09:21 AM
How many of those 40 million actually needed it and how many made the conscious decision to just not have it?

You're so cretin ... you prove it

Cigar
11-14-2013, 09:21 AM
Wow, the initial OP is even more inaccurate than I thought.

Are you self insured or employer insured?

Cigar
11-14-2013, 09:22 AM
You're winning? How?

Your healthcare law sucks, enrollments miss their mark, and barely anyone is interested in signing in.

But yeah, Obamacare is the law so it's an empty victory nonetheless.

How many months in advance do you sign up for YOUR Insurance each year?

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 09:31 AM
Are you self insured or employer insured?

Yes.

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 09:33 AM
How many months in advance do you sign up for YOUR Insurance each year?

That's a good question. How many insurance companies (or retailers for that matter) forces you to sign up just so you can see the prices for all the products they have to offer?

Cigar
11-14-2013, 09:34 AM
Yes.

Yes you're self insured or your employer insure you?

Cigar
11-14-2013, 09:35 AM
That's a good question. How many insurance companies (or retailers for that matter) forces you to sign up just so you can see the prices for all the products they have to offer?

What ... I posted a few weeks ago one how to see the prices.

You don't have to register to see them

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 09:36 AM
Yes you're self insured or your employer insure you?

Both. I am an expat.

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 09:41 AM
What ... I posted a few weeks ago one how to see the prices.

You don't have to register to see them

Where? I've gone to HealthCare.gov and they've directed me to the NY exchanges. I have yet to see any prices. (https://nystateofhealth.ny.gov/agent/navigators) I mean, I don't expect it to be as simple as Apple or anything, but it shouldn't be so cryptic either.


http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6859/3uag.png

midcan5
11-14-2013, 09:58 AM
Obama could walk on water, turn water into wine, and raise the dead, but the right wing would still whine and find fault. That my friends is all they have ever done. It is why given the reigns of government they fail every time. The right wing are the whiners and the puppets of big money, big money has even educated them starting in the forties. What can you do with a group of people who can't do anything but grovel before the throne of the big money? So long as experience stays away from the comforts of their status, the foe will always be change. Consider that our deficit has been substantially reduced and you must realize facts have no place in the mind of the conservative republican. The corporate news plays their tune.

No nation was ever founded by conservatives, for in order to do so, you'd need to stop whining and do something - or by clueless libertarians who think all things started at their birth. "The collapse of the Bush presidency, in other words, is not just due to Bush's incompetence (although his administration has been incompetent beyond belief). Nor is it a response to the president's principled lack of intellectual curiosity and pitbull refusal to admit mistakes (although those character flaws are certainly real enough). And the orgy of bribery and special-interest dispensation in Congress is not the result of Tom DeLay's ruthlessness, as impressive a bully as he was. This conservative presidency and Congress imploded, not despite their conservatism, but because of it." "Why Conservatives Can't Govern" by Alan Wolfe (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0607.wolfe.html)

Cigar
11-14-2013, 10:17 AM
Where? I've gone to HealthCare.gov and they've directed me to the NY exchanges. I have yet to see any prices. (https://nystateofhealth.ny.gov/agent/navigators) I mean, I don't expect it to be as simple as Apple or anything, but it shouldn't be so cryptic either.


http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6859/3uag.png


It's been widely reported that there's a problems with the Website ... they do gave a Number, that was posted also.

I checked, ObamaCare isn't a Website

Cigar
11-14-2013, 10:22 AM
Obama could walk on water, turn water into wine, and raise the dead, but the right wing would still whine and find fault. That my friends is all they have ever done. It is why given the reigns of government they fail every time. The right wing are the whiners and the puppets of big money, big money has even educated them starting in the forties. What can you do with a group of people who can't do anything but grovel before the throne of the big money? So long as experience stays away from the comforts of their status, the foe will always be change. Consider that our deficit has been substantially reduced and you must realize facts have no place in the mind of the conservative republican. The corporate news plays their tune.

No nation was ever founded by conservatives, for in order to do so, you'd need to stop whining and do something - or by clueless libertarians who think all things started at their birth. "The collapse of the Bush presidency, in other words, is not just due to Bush's incompetence (although his administration has been incompetent beyond belief). Nor is it a response to the president's principled lack of intellectual curiosity and pitbull refusal to admit mistakes (although those character flaws are certainly real enough). And the orgy of bribery and special-interest dispensation in Congress is not the result of Tom DeLay's ruthlessness, as impressive a bully as he was. This conservative presidency and Congress imploded, not despite their conservatism, but because of it." "Why Conservatives Can't Govern" by Alan Wolfe (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0607.wolfe.html)

They don't like Obama.

They will be whining about him, just like Carter and Clinton for Decades ... and that's just fine with Liberals and Progressives, we're use to Conservatives whining; that's what they do. I think Conservatives are going to be whining for a really long time, and that's a beautiful thing, because it could be worse, they could be happy, and we've all live through enough of Republican Happiness. I'll take the Whining just fine.

AmazonTania
11-14-2013, 10:40 AM
It's been widely reported that there's a problems with the Website ... they do gave a Number, that was posted also.

I checked, ObamaCare isn't a Website

That's nice, but why can I not visit the website and view the marketplace for any plans or rates based on a particular income level just like any other website?