Netanyahu: Iran Nuclear Deal A 'Historic Mistake'

[Common]

I agree with netanyahu, I think its naive to believe that suddenly Iran had an epiphany to give up their nuclear ambitions.

I believe this was a stall tactic by Iran and a move to get the crippling sanctions lifted off them. We will be revisiting this down the road. This is a bad deal.



Israel's prime minister harshly condemned the international community's nuclear deal with Iran on Sunday, calling it a "historic mistake" and saying he was not bound by the agreement. Speaking to his Cabinet, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the world had become a "more dangerous place" as a result of the deal and reiterated a long-standing threat to use military action against Iran if needed, declaring that Israel "has the right and the duty to defend itself by itself."
Israel believes Iran is trying to develop a nuclear weapon, and in the weeks leading up to Sunday's agreement, Netanyahu had warned the emerging deal was insufficient.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/24/netanyahu-iran-deal-israel-nuclear_n_4332906.html

[shaarona]

I agree with netanyahu, I think its naive to believe that suddenly Iran had an epiphany to give up their nuclear ambitions.

I believe this was a stall tactic by Iran and a move to get the crippling sanctions lifted off them. We will be revisiting this down the road. This is a bad deal.



Israel's prime minister harshly condemned the international community's nuclear deal with Iran on Sunday, calling it a "historic mistake" and saying he was not bound by the agreement. Speaking to his Cabinet, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the world had become a "more dangerous place" as a result of the deal and reiterated a long-standing threat to use military action against Iran if needed, declaring that Israel "has the right and the duty to defend itself by itself."
Israel believes Iran is trying to develop a nuclear weapon, and in the weeks leading up to Sunday's agreement, Netanyahu had warned the emerging deal was insufficient.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/24/netanyahu-iran-deal-israel-nuclear_n_4332906.html

So hold Iran's feet to the fire and guarantee their security so Israel can't bomb them.

Bibi is such a loser.

[Dangermouse]

He would say that, wouldn't he? He's been bypassed, and his warmongering ignored.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Another massive Obama fail.

[shaarona]

Another massive Obama fail.

You prefer killing a half million Iranians because Israel is paranoid.. not to mention the fall out on Kuwait, KSA, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE?? How about contaminating the Persian gulf, the desalination plants, the ports and oil installations.

[The Xl]

They shouldn't have sanctions on them in the first place.

[The Xl]

You prefer killing a half million Iranians because Israel is paranoid.. not to mention the fall out on Kuwait, KSA, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE?? How about contaminating the Persian gulf, the desalination plants, the ports and oil installations.
Mericans' give no fucks about war and death.


Amercia. Fuck yeah.

[shaarona]

Mericans' give no fucks about war and death.


Amercia. Fuck yeah.

In this particular case... the US is held hostage by Israel and Iran.. just as Saudi Arabia and the GCC are hostage.

[Beevee]

It seems posters have ignored the fact that this agreement (and I haven't made my mind up on it as yet) is the sole prerogative of the US and no other countries are involved. Unless posters still believe that the US can still wag the tail and the rest will 'follow my leader'.

I'm not so sure that other nations leaders dismiss Obama in the same fashion as the GOP and conservative supporters.

[Paperback Writer]

It seems posters have ignored the fact that this agreement (and I haven't made my mind up on it as yet) is the sole prerogative of the US and no other countries are involved. Unless posters still believe that the US can still wag the tail and the rest will 'follow my leader'.

I'm not so sure that other nations leaders dismiss Obama in the same fashion as the GOP and conservative supporters.

What? Course we do. He's a bloody idiot who can't tie his own shoelaces but because he's got George Bush as the president before him he looks like a comparative genius. Do you believe he's got even the chops of Bill Clinton? Hardly, mate.

[Peter1469]

It seems posters have ignored the fact that this agreement (and I haven't made my mind up on it as yet) is the sole prerogative of the US and no other countries are involved. Unless posters still believe that the US can still wag the tail and the rest will 'follow my leader'.

I'm not so sure that other nations leaders dismiss Obama in the same fashion as the GOP and conservative supporters.


5 other global powers were part of the negotiations and signed the agreement....

[Mini Me]

It seems posters have ignored the fact that this agreement (and I haven't made my mind up on it as yet) is the sole prerogative of the US and no other countries are involved. Unless posters still believe that the US can still wag the tail and the rest will 'follow my leader'.

I'm not so sure that other nations leaders dismiss Obama in the same fashion as the GOP and conservative supporters.

Of course they don't!

They are much more rational than the Goppers!

No matter what Bama does the GOP will scream and rant! Its all they do!

[zelmo1234]

You prefer killing a half million Iranians because Israel is paranoid.. not to mention the fall out on Kuwait, KSA, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE?? How about contaminating the Persian gulf, the desalination plants, the ports and oil installations.

Well this deal make it mush more likely that Israel will act all by themselves

Which makes this desolation of the gulf much more possible not less! Israel has little choice!

[jillian]

So hold Iran's feet to the fire and guarantee their security so Israel can't bomb them.

Bibi is such a loser.

or better yet, control iran which has sworn israel's destruction…. a

[Mainecoons]

Given the history of deceit and lies from Iran I just don't see how this is going to be enforced.

Sanctions don't work, they just drove them more into the arms of China and Russia who most certainly were not joining in.

With a country like this you never know if it is all bluster, like North Korea, or they would actually build a bomb in secrecy and drop it on Israel.

I just think we don't really have that much control over this situation one way or the other and we may as well face up to it.

[jillian]

Given the history of deceit and lies from Iran I just don't see how this is going to be enforced.

Sanctions don't work, they just drove them more into the arms of China and Russia who most certainly were not joining in.

With a country like this you never know if it is all bluster, like North Korea, or they would actually build a bomb in secrecy and drop it on Israel.

I just think we don't really have that much control over this situation one way or the other and we may as well face up to it.

probably correct. so just throw up our hands?

[jillian]

5 other global powers were part of the negotiations and signed the agreement....

that doesn't mean we should have. and i think it depends on how serious we are about actually controlling iran's behavior.

if we're just going to sit around and wait for them to have a working bomb, then this is a very bad idea. if it's about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, that might have some merit.

[Mainecoons]

Looks that way to me. I just don't see Israel surviving in the middle of a sea of enemies indefinitely. Frankly I'd love to toss every Muslim out of the U.S. and invite Israel to relocate here.

It would sure improve the gene pool.

:grin:

[Peter1469]

or better yet, control iran which has sworn israel's destruction…. a


If Israel actually believes those threats, then Iran is an existential threat to Israel, and their government has a duty to respond accordingly.

Here is an article from the Hill (http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/329371-three-reasons-the-us-should-pay-attention-to-israels-iran-fears) that discusses why the US should care. The only question, is whether we believe Iran to be rational actors. There are really 3 power bases in Iran: the civilian government, the religious leaders, and the Quds Force. I think the religious leaders are the only ones we need to worry about, at least as far as nuclear weapons go. The Quds Force is extremely powerful- they assassinate people all over the globe, participate in Shiite wars- even killing American soldiers in Iraq. But they aren't stupid, they don't want to be turned to glass from a US response.

[Mister D]

that doesn't mean we should have. and i think it depends on how serious we are about actually controlling iran's behavior.

if we're just going to sit around and wait for them to have a working bomb, then this is a very bad idea. if it's about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, that might have some merit.

We can't control Iran's behavior.

[Peter1469]

Looks that way to me. I just don't see Israel surviving in the middle of a sea of enemies indefinitely. Frankly I'd love to toss every Muslim out of the U.S. and invite Israel to relocate here.

It would sure improve the gene pool.

:grin:


I would give them a stretch of land along the Mexican boarder. Two birds, one stone. :shocked:

[Mainecoons]

I'm only sort of joking about tossing the Muslims. I firmly believe that Islam is much more a military movement for world conquest than it is a religion.

[Mainecoons]

I would give them a stretch of land along the Mexican boarder. Two birds, one stone. :shocked:

They would turn it into a garden in one decade.

[AmazonTania]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5484/11029100614_e39f6ee0b8_b.jpg

[jillian]

I would give them a stretch of land along the Mexican boarder. Two birds, one stone. :shocked:

nice to say now, but wasn't in the plan when they turned away the boats from europe.

[Peter1469]

that doesn't mean we should have. and i think it depends on how serious we are about actually controlling iran's behavior.

if we're just going to sit around and wait for them to have a working bomb, then this is a very bad idea. if it's about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, that might have some merit.

Perhaps that is the case.

[jillian]

They would turn it into a garden in one decade.

already did that once.

[Mister D]

I would give them a stretch of land along the Mexican boarder. Two birds, one stone. :shocked:

I'll never understand this libertarian death wish.

[roadmaster]

Many Jews voted for Obama and support Kerry and I knew Jews especially the leaders who campaigned for him. I see that some Israeli are upset now. Dershowitz flew to tell the Israeli-American citizen voters and urged them to vote for Obama while he defamed Romney. Now they are blaming Americans, hum. Not to worry only six million Israeli lives sit on a dangerous spot. If something goes wrong well they own it.

[Beevee]

We can't control Iran's behavior.

Strange you should think that, since it must have been Iran that broached the subject of restricting their own nuclear activities (whether genuine or nefarious) due to sanctions hurting their economy.

[Mini Me]

Another massive Obama fail.

Obama fail?

Explain how that is.

Look back 3-4 months ago. Obama wanted to attack Syria, all hope was gone with Iran, and a massive World War III scenario looked imminent in the Gulf that if enacted would have sent oil prices over $ 200 a barrel, and disrupted the world economy.

And now, the UN is working out a peacefull solution with Iran, and the Syria is allowing inspections for WMD sites.

That's HUGE PROGRESS!

And proof diplomatic solutions do work!

Put away the right wing Zionist hate sites, turn off Fox News, and HATE radio and stop listening to the Rethuglican Outrage Machine!

All they do is push hate, fear, and discordance!

BiBi is a goddam warmonger, and Bama will not backstop his imperialist agression anymore!

[Mini Me]

You prefer killing a half million Iranians because Israel is paranoid.. not to mention the fall out on Kuwait, KSA, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE?? How about contaminating the Persian gulf, the desalination plants, the ports and oil installations.

The Zionist PNAC Neocon perpetual war machine wants hegemony in the ME, and does not care about consequences, only massive profits! This is the same outfit that gave you the unfunded wars in Iraq and Astan.

An attack on Iran would send a rain of missles onto Israel, and could destroy it! BiBi needs to be isolated from the world community as the warmonger that he is.

[zelmo1234]

The Zionist PNAC Neocon perpetual war machine wants hegemony in the ME, and does not care about consequences, only massive profits! This is the same outfit that gave you the unfunded wars in Iraq and Astan.

An attack on Iran would send a rain of missles onto Israel, and could destroy it! BiBi needs to be isolated from the world community as the warmonger that he is.

Though we do not know all of the details, this is much like the deals with N Korea, before they developed the A Bomb!

I think it is more likely that Israel will act, not less likely! This is not a good thing for the safety of their nation!

[Common]

Iran did NOT change its heart and its mind overnight, so if they didnt change their mind about obtaining nuclear capability what was the point of THEM approaching the UN for a deal. This deal was not brokered by anyone, Iran stepped forward to get the sanctions removed that are loosening their control over their own people.

This is a move to get sanctions lifted and to buy time from israel by having UN pressure put on them, it appears its not going to work.

[shaarona]

Martin Van Creveld is Israel's foremost military historian.

Acknowledging the virtual Armageddon that could follow from an ill-conceived attack on Iran is not appeasement. It is simply recognition of the reality that Israel and the West have little to fear from Iran – even an Iran with limited nuclear capacity.

CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraph (http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/hands-on-syria--hands-off-iran#)The ascendant powers in the Middle East are Turkey and Qatar. These Sunni countries, along with Saudi Arabia, should join with their international allies and initiate a regional solution to Syria’s crisis. In the process, Iran should not be needlessly antagonized.

CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraph (http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/hands-on-syria--hands-off-iran#)In the absence of such leadership, the Syrian crisis is likely to have a contagious effect, as refugees, arms, and militant Islamists cross borders in greater numbers than they have since the start of the Iraq War in 2003. Indeed, this “spillover” could fuel a regional war of all against all.

Now is not the time to provoke Iran, but rather to tend to Syria’s troubles before it is too late – for example, by publicly offering Assad a way out of the country that will safeguard the minority Alawite community if he is toppled or forced to flee. If the Syria situation is ignored, its consequences could provoke Israeli or Iranian action, setting the region aflame and triggering a global depression.

Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/hands-on-syria--hands-off-iran#RcZkfJdL0OLwV4Kd.99

[zelmo1234]

Martin Van Creveld is Israel's foremost military historian.

Acknowledging the virtual Armageddon that could follow from an ill-conceived attack on Iran is not appeasement. It is simply recognition of the reality that Israel and the West have little to fear from Iran – even an Iran with limited nuclear capacity.

CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraph (http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/hands-on-syria--hands-off-iran#)The ascendant powers in the Middle East are Turkey and Qatar. These Sunni countries, along with Saudi Arabia, should join with their international allies and initiate a regional solution to Syria’s crisis. In the process, Iran should not be needlessly antagonized.

CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraph (http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/hands-on-syria--hands-off-iran#)In the absence of such leadership, the Syrian crisis is likely to have a contagious effect, as refugees, arms, and militant Islamists cross borders in greater numbers than they have since the start of the Iraq War in 2003. Indeed, this “spillover” could fuel a regional war of all against all.

Now is not the time to provoke Iran, but rather to tend to Syria’s troubles before it is too late – for example, by publicly offering Assad a way out of the country that will safeguard the minority Alawite community if he is toppled or forced to flee. If the Syria situation is ignored, its consequences could provoke Israeli or Iranian action, setting the region aflame and triggering a global depression.

Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/hands-on-syria--hands-off-iran#RcZkfJdL0OLwV4Kd.99

Yeah! I don't think Israel is going to share your feeling,

I would not be surprised it they take out the reactors before the end of this year, the have had enough of the current administration selling there security for political headlines

[shaarona]

Yeah! I don't think Israel is going to share your feeling,

I would not be surprised it they take out the reactors before the end of this year, the have had enough of the current administration selling there security for political headlines

Meir Dagan also thinks Netanyahu is nuts.

[nathanbforrest45]

Strange you should think that, since it must have been Iran that broached the subject of restricting their own nuclear activities (whether genuine or nefarious) due to sanctions hurting their economy.


And of course they would never lie to us just to get the sanctions lifted.

[Mini Me]

I think the new regime in Iran sees the handwriting on the wall, and is responding to the will of the people there in wanting peace. In order to be a world player in the markets, it must corral it nuke ambitions and allow inspections of its nuke sites.

Its a no win situation for Iran to push a bomb program. If it were to go ahead with this, the consequences would be disasterous for Iran, and they know it. The sanctions have worked. And diplomacy may work. We just have to give it a try.

Syria is a much bigger problem. BiBi will not attack, unless he sees the inspections being subterfuged, so he always has that option, and he has not lost the upper hand. Obama is probably telling BiBi to "cool your jets" and give this a chance.

I think it is good that 90% of the American people told Obama that a Syrian attack is not what we wanted.
Finally, public opinion is having an effect!

[nathanbforrest45]

Can you say

"This paper represents peace in our times"?

[shaarona]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Shah_of_Iran_building_two_nuclear_plants.jpg

[Captain Obvious]

RWNJ's will never admit it, but this so far is a fairly significant drive for the O'bama administration. He's so far handled this matter with authority and caution although I wonder if he's trying too hard under the pressure of needing a success in the wake of the O'bamacare debacle.

Couple of takeaways:

1) Sanctions and diplomacy sometimes work (so far).

2) We can be held hostage, just ask those krazy koreans. They already have a bomb, we quietly let it happen and that was a massive failure.

3) This could blow up in our faces on a number of fronts.

4) It all will probably be for not. My guess is that at some point Iran will acqiire nuclear weapons and we will look back and regret not taking militaryaction.

I'm pretty confident about the latter.

[shaarona]

RWNJ's will never admit it, but this so far is a fairly significant drive for the O'bama administration. He's so far handled this matter with authority and caution although I wonder if he's trying too hard under the pressure of needing a success in the wake of the O'bamacare debacle.

Couple of takeaways:

1) Sanctions and diplomacy sometimes work (so far).

2) We can be held hostage, just ask those krazy koreans. They already have a bomb, we quietly let it happen and that was a massive failure.

3) This could blow up in our faces on a number of fronts.

4) It all will probably be for not. My guess is that at some point Iran will acqiire nuclear weapons and we will look back and regret not taking militaryaction.

I'm pretty confident about the latter.

I wonder if every country in the region that wants nuclear power to generate electricity will have to build a bomb to protect itself from Israel.

Remember when Jordan said they were going to build a nuclear plant.. Jordan has a lot of high grade uranium ore. Israel said NO.

[Captain Obvious]

I wonder if every country in the region that wants nuclear power to generate electricity will have to build a bomb to protect itself from Israel.

Remember when Jordan said they were going to build a nuclear plant.. Jordan has a lot of high grade uranium ore. Israel said NO.

Israel is not aggressive.

Iran is aggressive.

It's really that simple.

[Captain Obvious]

In fact, to contradict your point - the Saudi's are securing their "bomb" now that Iran is closer to building one.

As much as you or anyone else wants to pin this on Israel, the fact is that Israel is not the aggressors here. You are blinded by antisemitism.

[Mainecoons]

I'm amazed that there are still people who are so deluded that they think Iran just wants to generate electricity.

There's really not much you can do for this kind of gullibility.

[Captain Obvious]

I'm amazed that there are still people who are so deluded that they think Iran just wants to generate electricity.

There's really not much you can do for this kind of gullibility.

Exactly.

And Iran and North Korea have interest in launching satellites into orbit for research purposes.

[jillian]

I'm amazed that there are still people who are so deluded that they think Iran just wants to generate electricity.

There's really not much you can do for this kind of gullibility.

apparently the sunni gulf oil states are more upset than israel over the thought of iran enriching uranium.

the question i do have, since i've been thinking about this…

the reality is that iran is still enriching uranium. they haven't stopped even with the sanctions. they won't stop without the sanctions and won't stop absent an agreement. so is getting the ability to go in there and inspect and keep tabs better than not?

ultimately, i suspect that was the question. of course, i'd rather make sure they don't enrich uranium for any purpose because they can't be trusted.

[jillian]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Shah_of_Iran_building_two_nuclear_plants.jpg

you don't see the difference between someone who hasn't threatened to nuke his neighbors exploring nuclear energy and someone we KNOW intends to use nukes to destroy his neighbor having that option?

apples and oranges. i suspect your buddies the saudis would agree.

[shaarona]

In fact, to contradict your point - the Saudi's are securing their "bomb" now that Iran is closer to building one.

As much as you or anyone else wants to pin this on Israel, the fact is that Israel is not the aggressors here. You are blinded by antisemitism.

That's the rumor.. but you have to remember the Saudis signed the NPT and have lived up to that agreement.

I'm not an anti-Semite.. How could I be anti my own relatives.

NO I am anti war, theft, extortion and stuff like that.

[shaarona]

apparently the sunni gulf oil states are more upset than israel over the thought of iran enriching uranium.

the question i do have, since i've been thinking about this…

the reality is that iran is still enriching uranium. they haven't stopped even with the sanctions. they won't stop without the sanctions and won't stop absent an agreement. so is getting the ability to go in there and inspect and keep tabs better than not?

ultimately, i suspect that was the question. of course, i'd rather make sure they don't enrich uranium for any purpose because they can't be trusted.

Are you convinced that Iran will attack Israel?

Something to consider...

Israel's Dimona Reactor(January 19, 1961)
excerpt:

The official statements which the Israeli and French Governments have now given us are unequivocal as to the non-military character of the Israeli program and French assistance to it. We do not anticipate that these Governments will provide us with significant additional information in the near future. You will note, however, that we have been given formal assurance that visitors from the United States or another friendly country will be received when the present intense public interest in the question has subsided. We believe that this will be very helpful in providing first-hand reassurance, and we intend to follow up this offer at an early date.

Any possibility of proliferation of nuclear weapons--particularly in the Middle East--obviously is a matter of grave concern to the Department.

We shall continue to follow this matter closely. We do not believe, however, that extended public speculation regarding the Israeli atomic energy program will advance the interests of the United States, and we have taken and will continue to take any feasible measures to damp down speculation on this matter and in particular to avoid giving occasion for renewed suspicions and possible undesirable reactions in the Arab world. We believe that persistent but quiet diplomatic approaches are most likely to be productive.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/FRUS1_19_61.html

[Dangermouse]

That smells like premptively defending their "peaceful" use of nuclear in the event of Iran complying with the agreement. Should Iran scale back on their enrichment plans, then the focus will shift to the only other Middle Eastern nuclear power.

[shaarona]

That smells like premptively defending their "peaceful" use of nuclear in the event of Iran complying with the agreement. Should Iran scale back on their enrichment plans, then the focus will shift to the only other Middle Eastern nuclear power.

Who is the other nuclear power in the Middle East... other than Israel?

[nathanbforrest45]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Shah_of_Iran_building_two_nuclear_plants.jpg

I know you are unaware of this but the Shah is dead.

[nathanbforrest45]

I'm amazed that there are still people who are so deluded that they think Iran just wants to generate electricity.

There's really not much you can do for this kind of gullibility.

I told you several weeks ago Sharonna is a Muslim shill. They can be shown on International TV eating small children and she would defend them

[jillian]

I told you several weeks ago Sharonna is a Muslim shill. They can be shown on International TV eating small children and she would defend them

shaarona believes what she believes. i don't see her being a shill even though i disagree with her on these issues.

[jillian]

Are you convinced that Iran will attack Israel?


israel isn't the danger.

iran is.

or should we not take their threats to destroy israel seriously?

maybe they were only kidding?

ftr, again, the saudis are more concerned about this than israel.

[shaarona]

I know you are unaware of this but the Shah is dead.

Do you remember that the Atoms for Peace Program under Eisenhower?

Iran was going to build 8 nuclear power plants to expand their electrical grid so they would have MORE oil for export..

The US approved that development and was training their techs. The Germans began construction.

It is absolutely rational for Iran to have nuclear power.. The paranoia that is driving the desire for nuclear weapons comes from Israel.

Jordan needs nuclear power for electricity and desalination. Israel made a stink about that a couple years ago.

Israel thinks they have the right to dictate infrastructure development in other countries.

[shaarona]

I told you several weeks ago Sharonna is a Muslim shill. They can be shown on International TV eating small children and she would defend them

We can share information and opinions.. but your objective is to act like a dick. .. and that says a lot about you and how insecure and childish you are. ..

I told you that my family had land grants in Sevier County, TN and Lauderdale county, AL.. How many Muslims have that.

[shaarona]

israel isn't the danger.

iran is.

or should we not take their threats to destroy israel seriously?

maybe they were only kidding?

ftr, again, the saudis are more concerned about this than israel.

Jillian .. My hope is that this works.. for everyone's sake..

Iran won't attack Israel if Israel bombs them... They will attack Jubail, Ras Tanura and Ghawar... and its just a quick trip across the Persian Gulf.

[nathanbforrest45]

shaarona believes what she believes. i don't see her being a shill even though i disagree with her on these issues.


Thats because you are blind to anything that attacks conservatism. Every one of her post is in defense of muslim ideology. I have seen her post for the last 3 or 4 years and she is a muslim shill pure and simple.

Believe what you want, its your loss

Case in point, a week or so ago she claimed to be Episcopal. Now in this thread she claims her background is Jewish ("how can I be antiSemetic, I would be against my own family) She needs to make up her mind just what she is and what she does for a living.

[Common]

Saudi Arabia does not want any arab country getting too strong. They were all in with the first gulf war when with Iraq, because they feared Saddam.
Iran wasnt an issue then because saddam had already beaten them down in a war and they hadnt started their nuclear ambitions as of yet.

Other mid east countries besides Israel do not want a nuclear Iran. I disagree with this deal and its because I dont believe for one second that Iran suddenly decided to be a good guy. I think to believe that is completely naive, they are buying time and trying to ease the sanctions because its causing great unrest with the iranian people and they are worrying about having their own uprising. As far as them giving up their nuclear aspirations, I said HELL NO. They are no more trustworthy than Nkorea who has shafted us on every single deal weve made with them.
This was a bad deal imho

[nathanbforrest45]

Do you remember that the Atoms for Peace Program under Eisenhower?

Iran was going to build 8 nuclear power plants to expand their electrical grid so they would have MORE oil for export..

The US approved that development and was training their techs. The Germans began construction.

It is absolutely rational for Iran to have nuclear power.. The paranoia that is driving the desire for nuclear weapons comes from Israel.

Jordan needs nuclear power for electricity and desalination. Israel made a stink about that a couple years ago.

Israel thinks they have the right to dictate infrastructure development in other countries.

Did the Shah of Iran threaten to wipe Israel off the map? To equate the Shah of Iran with these lunatics is sheer madness.

[shaarona]

Thats because you are blind to anything that attacks conservatism. Every one of her post is in defense of muslim ideology. I have seen her post for the last 3 or 4 years and she is a muslim shill pure and simple.

Believe what you want, its your loss

Actually.. I am just better educated than you.. I get Islam even though I am Episcopalian.. .. and I should after living in the ME for so many years.

I also don't attack Judaism.. but would you know anything about respect for the faith of others?

Why would I attack conservatism? I am a conservative. I just don't care for the neo-cons and these dimwits in Congress.. and there are a God's plenty of democrats dimwits as well.

My family has been here in American far longer than yours.. We built homes in New Amsterdam when it was still Dutch.. I don't suffer fools lightly.

[shaarona]

Saudi Arabia does not want any arab country getting too strong. They were all in with the first gulf war when with Iraq, because they feared Saddam.
Iran wasnt an issue then because saddam had already beaten them down in a war and they hadnt started their nuclear ambitions as of yet.

Other mid east countries besides Israel do not want a nuclear Iran. I disagree with this deal and its because I dont believe for one second that Iran suddenly decided to be a good guy. I think to believe that is completely naive, they are buying time and trying to ease the sanctions because its causing great unrest with the iranian people and they are worrying about having their own uprising. As far as them giving up their nuclear aspirations, I said HELL NO. They are no more trustworthy than Nkorea who has shafted us on every single deal weve made with them.
This was a bad deal imho

The Saudis did everything in their power to avert the Gulf war..

Cheney lied to King Fahd and told him the Iraqi forces were amassed on the Saudi border.

Would you prefer a war that drives the ppb to $600?

Only a moron wouldn't exhaust all diplomatic possibilities.

[nathanbforrest45]

Actually.. I am just better educated than you.. I get Islam even though I am Episcopalian.. .. and I should after living in the ME for so many years.

I also don't attack Judaism.. but would you know anything about respect for the faith of others?

Why would I attack conservatism? I am a conservative. I just don't care for the neo-cons and these dimwits in Congress.. and there are a God's plenty of democrats dimwits as well.

My family has been here in American far longer than yours.. We built homes in New Amsterdam when it was still Dutch.. I don't suffer fools lightly.


yes yes yes. You are better educated, you make more money and you once won the Miss World Contest. All I know about you and all you know about me is what you see on these forums. I don't believe a word you say about anything. I will grant that you are very knowledgeable about the Middle East but why that is so is another question. And dearie, you have no idea when my family came to this country nor does it matter who my or your ancestors were. They are not posting in this forum, you are and I am and you are a fucking muslim fellow traveler and that makes you my enemy.

[shaarona]

Thats because you are blind to anything that attacks conservatism. Every one of her post is in defense of muslim ideology. I have seen her post for the last 3 or 4 years and she is a muslim shill pure and simple.

Believe what you want, its your loss

Case in point, a week or so ago she claimed to be Episcopal. Now in this thread she claims her background is Jewish ("how can I be antiSemetic, I would be against my own family) She needs to make up her mind just what she is and what she does for a living.

No Jerk.. some members of my family married Jews..

Do you ever THINK?

[Common]

The Saudis did everything in their power to avert the Gulf war..

Cheney lied to King Fahd and told him the Iraqi forces were amassed on the Saudi border.

Would you prefer a war that drives the ppb to $600?

Only a moron wouldn't exhaust all diplomatic possibilities.


Shaarona that is not true, not only did the saudis embrace the war they wanted it. King Fahds son I forget the princes name led saudi forces and he personally led air raids into iraq.
How could cheney like to the Saudis about iraqui troops amassed on their border when they could just go look thats ludicrous. After Saddam invaded kuwait the saudis were shaken and believed they could be next. They allowed bush to dispatch and station troops in Saudi Arabia and put troops into the battle led by the Prince.

[shaarona]

Shaarona that is not true, not only did the saudis embrace the war they wanted it. King Fahds son I forget the princes name led saudi forces and he personally led air raids into iraq.
How could cheney like to the Saudis about iraqui troops amassed on their border when they could just go look thats ludicrous. After Saddam invaded kuwait the saudis were shaken and believed they could be next. They allowed bush to dispatch and station troops in Saudi Arabia and put troops into the battle led by the Prince.

Which son? He had many..

Look for the Cheney interview on line.

Fahd was taken in by Cheney.. Abdullah was not.

It won't happen again. KSA now has their own systems.

[Peter1469]

The Saudis did everything in their power to avert the Gulf war..

Cheney lied to King Fahd and told him the Iraqi forces were amassed on the Saudi border.

Would you prefer a war that drives the ppb to $600?

Only a moron wouldn't exhaust all diplomatic possibilities.

They were massed along the boarder where I was. main positions were 30 kicks in. Then lots of small guard posts less than a click from our front lines. In the run up to the ground war we did anti-recon patrols every night.

[Peter1469]

I told you several weeks ago Sharonna is a Muslim shill. They can be shown on International TV eating small children and she would defend them

Warning: stop with the name calling.