Lesson From "Animal Farm"

[Alias]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/how_obama_betrayed_his_constituents_and_why_they_w ont_care.html

[Conley]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/how_obama_betrayed_his_constituents_and_why_they_w ont_care.html

Obama definitely betrayed those who voted for him, but I disagree that people won't care. It won't be enough to get them to vote for the GOP candidate but I think we will see far lower turnout for him than in 2008, especially in youths and blacks, two groups that really put him on top. Independents will probably sit this one out as well barring a good candidate from a third party. Even 3-4% may be enough to tip some swing states.

[Mister D]

I agree that a 2008 style turnout favorable to BO isn't in the cards for 2012.

[Conley]

It was someone on here that pointed out to me that without those votes Obama doesn't even beat McCain, one of the worst GOP nominees in a long time. Romney or Gingrich probably isn't much better. If the GOP had just gotten a good nominee at the forefront they would be well on their way to an easy win.

[CoLibertarian]

What modern president has not betrayed his promises? This is the problem with the current two party system - those people that voted for Obama, did not vote for Obama. They voted against McCain who was seen by many of them as nothing more than 4 more years of Bush.

[Mister D]

Well, they got 4 more years of Bush anyway. Take that! :laugh:

[Conley]

Well, they got 4 more years of Bush anyway. Take that! :laugh:

Yup! A collective "Doh"!

[CoLibertarian]

Well, they got 4 more years of Bush anyway. Take that! :laugh:

Actually - that is quite ironic. I would be hard pressed to name the actual differences in the policies of Obama and Bush. The presentation is different, but the policies seem to be the same.

[Conley]

Bush certainly never signed anything nearly as heinous as NDAA.

[Mister D]

Actually - that is quite ironic. I would be hard pressed to name the actual differences in the policies of Obama and Bush. The presentation is different, but the policies seem to be the same.

I've heard it out this way: we are ruled by one political p[arty with two factions. You simply wouldn't expect a sea change. Neither party presents a real alternative.

[CoLibertarian]

Bush certainly never signed anything nearly as heinous as NDAA.

What was the AUMF again?

[MMC]

I don't recall Bush saying how he was going to change Washington either.

[Conley]

What was the AUMF again?

You really think AUMF (passed one week after 9/11 I might add) is as bad as NDAA?

[Chris]

"
But the rest of us looking on know that there is no windmill, and there never will be for the same reason Orwell's animals never see its completion. There exists an economic reality that believers in such nonsense overlook. A ruling body cannot administrate happiness. As our founders knew, the best a ruling class can do is allow individuals to seek it without trying to manipulate those individuals as one would the cogs of a machine."

Great lesson, alias!

“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.”
― Friedrich von Hayek

[Mister D]

It was someone on here that pointed out to me that without those votes Obama doesn't even beat McCain, one of the worst GOP nominees in a long time. Romney or Gingrich probably isn't much better. If the GOP had just gotten a good nominee at the forefront they would be well on their way to an easy win.

Yes, I think that's true. Plus, McCain was an awful candidate. He wasn't fodder like Dole but he was a bad candidate. I think both Romney and Gingrich are better candidates not least because they are much more telegenic.

[MMC]

There is only one Problem when it concerns economists. That is they need to stick to their numbers and get out of Politcal policy. Economists need do only one thing advise about their field. Then the rest of time they just need to STFU. As they should not be concerned in any political policy that deals with anything else.

History has shown us.....NEVER let the Sheep lead!

[CoLibertarian]

You really think AUMF (passed one week after 9/11 I might add) is as bad as NDAA?

I think that NDAA is merely the legislation of the judicial support of AUMF as was applied by the previous regime.

[CoLibertarian]

Yes, I think that's true. Plus, McCain was an awful candidate. He wasn't fodder like Dole but he was a bad candidate. I think both Romney and Gingrich are better candidates not least because they are much more telegenic.

I respect McCain more as a person than I do either Romney or Gingrich (esp Newt - sorry, smart guy, but a scumbag). Gingrich has too much baggage and the differences between Romney of years past and Romney today will torpedo his candidacy.

[Mister D]

I respect McCain more as a person than I do either Romney or Gingrich (esp Newt - sorry, smart guy, but a scumbag). Gingrich has too much baggage and the differences between Romney of years past and Romney today will torpedo his candidacy.

I certainly respect McCain the man. McCain the GOP candidate was another story and thankfully one that won't be have sequel. The only thing that genuinely lowered McCain the man in my eyes was the way he tried to throw Palin under the bus by blaming her for his lackluster campaign. Regarding Romney, I know he has "flip flop" (goofy term) issues but I still think he can beat BO who benefited immensely from the increased turnout of 2008. That will not happen again. I agree about Gingrich having too much baggage and I said as much on this and other sites. I still would love to see him debate Obama though.

[CoLibertarian]

I certainly respect McCain the man. McCain the GOP candidate was another story and thankfully one that won't be have sequel. The only thing that genuinely lowered McCain the man in my eyes was the way he tried to throw Palin under the bus by blaming her for his lackluster campaign. Regarding Romney, I know he has "flip flop" (goofy term) issues but I still think he can beat BO who benefited immensely from the increased turnout of 2008. That will not happen again. I agree about Gingrich having too much baggage and I said as much on this and other sites. I still would love to see him debate Obama though.

Where is this "McCain threw Palin under the bus" coming from? McCain has been nothing but supportive of Palin (which actually reduced my respect for McCain because Palin is about the worst/dumbest politician to garner major power in ages). Yes, some of McCain's staff felt that Palin eventually killed his chances at winning - and she did - but McCain himself has never even suggested it.

[Mister D]

Where is this "McCain threw Palin under the bus" coming from? McCain has been nothing but supportive of Palin (which actually reduced my respect for McCain because Palin is about the worst/dumbest politician to garner major power in ages). Yes, some of McCain's staff felt that Palin eventually killed his chances at winning - and she did - but McCain himself has never even suggested it.

McCain let his lousy campaign do the dirty work. He winked and nodded.

[CoLibertarian]

McCain let his lousy campaign do the dirty work. He winked and nodded.

And you know this how?

Not just that but his campaign was correct. Sure Palin rejuvenated the base. However Palin is such a moron (and it came out in the interviews) that it killed any and all independent or moderate support for McCain. Not just that but the extreme right talk radio had been killing McCain for ages.

[Mister D]

And you know this how?

Not just that but his campaign was correct. Sure Palin rejuvenated the base. However Palin is such a moron (and it came out in the interviews) that it killed any and all independent or moderate support for McCain. Not just that but the extreme right talk radio had been killing McCain for ages.

He let his aides and lousy campaign attack his VP pick and portray her as the reason he lost. That's how. No, John. You're the reason you lost. Either you or your shitty campaign managers. Probably both. A more honorable man would have taken the responsibility for his defeat on his own shoulders rather than let it fall on the shoulders of a woman he rescued from obscurity. Nah McCain was an asshole for that.

[CoLibertarian]

He let his aides and lousy campaign attack his VP pick and portray her as the reason he lost. That's how. No, John. You're the reason you lost. Either you or your shitty campaign managers. Probably both. A more honorable man would have taken the responsibility for his defeat on his own shoulders rather than let it fall on the shoulders of a woman he rescued from obscurity. Nah McCain was an asshole for that.

Actually McCain spoke out against the people that blamed Palin. Again, you have to come up with some sort of evidence for his intent other than speculation.

[Mister D]

Actually McCain spoke out against the people that blamed Palin. Again, you have to come up with some sort of evidence for his intent other than speculation.

I just don't buy it. He let the damage to Palin happen and when everyone really knew why he really lost he decided to say something nice about her. You know, 'cause he's that kind of guy. He should have condemned that crap immediately. He didn't and I can't help but think his hesitation was calculated.

[CoLibertarian]

I just don't buy it. He let the damage to Palin happen and when everyone really knew why he really lost he decided to say something nice about her. You know, 'cause he's that kind of guy. He should have condemned that crap immediately. He didn't and I can't help but think his hesitation was calculated.

Ok - so you have pure speculation on your part. Logical, but I don't buy it. In fact, if I were McCain, I would have been much more harsh about Palin, but then I would have vetted her a lot better too. Thankfully her time in the sun is almost done.

[Alias]

Palin would be a hell of a lot better President than what we have now, IMHO.

[CoLibertarian]

Palin would be a hell of a lot better President than what we have now, IMHO.

If you like war - sure.

[Mister D]

Ok - so you have pure speculation on your part. Logical, but I don't buy it. In fact, if I were McCain, I would have been much more harsh about Palin, but then I would have vetted her a lot better too. Thankfully her time in the sun is almost done.

Thankfully, so is McCain's. Yes, it's speculative and I can't point to any damning statements. It was my impression of that shipwreck of a campaign and its immediate aftermath.

[CoLibertarian]

Thankfully, so is McCain's. Yes, it's speculative and I can't point to any damning statements. It was my impression of that shipwreck of a campaign and its immediate aftermath.

No worries - I fully understand the logic and respect your right to have a differing opinion.

As far as McCain goes. I respect the man, but I eagerly await his retirement from politics.

[Mister D]

He's 75, I believe? I think 2008 was it.

[CoLibertarian]

He's 75, I believe? I think 2008 was it.

Has nothing to do with his age - Ron Paul is older and his politics are not (IMHO) stale. McCain and his politics are (again IMHO).

[Mister D]

Has nothing to do with his age - Ron Paul is older and his politics are not (IMHO) stale. McCain and his politics are (again IMHO).

Well, if he were to run in 2016 he'd be almost 80. That was obviously an issue for Reagan. I'm not alluding to his politics at all. I have in mind only his health.

[Mister D]

Popes can be venerable. Presidents? :undecided:

[CoLibertarian]

Popes can be venerable. Presidents? :undecided:
As much as I love and admire John Paul - I find popes to be generally disgusting and Ratzinger (opps - sorry bene-dick) among the worst. Maybe not as bad as the Borgias, but close.

[MMC]

Popes can be venerable. Presidents? :undecided:

What about Monks?

[MMC]

Popes can be venerable. Presidents? :undecided:

What about Monks?

[MMC]

Double post again due to getting caught on reply. Hate when that happens! :angry:

[Alias]

If you like war - sure.

No, I don't "like" war. I don't like being enslaved and losing my liberty to tyranny, so sometimes war is necessary.

[Mister D]

What about Monks?

Yes, monks too. :wink:

[Mister D]

what is the connection between Palin and war? Is that a reference to her neocon philosophy? If so, I don't think it's fair to single her out.

[Mister D]

I have a copy of this novel around the house somewhere. Very short as I recall.

[jgreer]

what is the connection between Palin and war? Is that a reference to her neocon philosophy? If so, I don't think it's fair to single her out.

Which war are you talking about

[Mister D]

Which war are you talking about

I'm asking. I'm not sure what CoLib meant.

[jgreer]

Palin would quit as president if she had a chance to make more money

[Mister D]

I doubt it.

[jgreer]

Your right she would never get enough votes to be president LOL

[Mister D]

Your statement assumed she was President.

[Alias]

Palin would quit as president if she had a chance to make more money

That's not why she resigned. She resigned to stop the harassment by liberals how hate her. The left kept harassing her with lawsuits to try to bankrupt her family. That's how sick your pals are.

[Peter1469]

Palin resigned because had she stayed in office she would have spent most of her time defending frivolous lawsuits. She let her Lt. Gov move forward for Alaska.