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JerryAL
12-01-2013, 11:24 AM
Oh my gosh, HealthCare.gov is actually working!!!

I actually tried finishing an application just before midnight last night, November 30th, and still could NOT complete the application without getting an error message.

Now today, December 1st, I logged backed in and zipped right through the application all the way to the end without any errors. I actually was pleasantly surprised that it finally worked.

Peter1469
12-01-2013, 11:28 AM
Let us know if someone steals all of your info. You might want to buy one of those identity protection plans.

Chris
12-01-2013, 11:30 AM
The WHitehouse trumpeted th same thing, but it's still not working now as promised for Oct 1.

JerryAL
12-01-2013, 11:32 AM
The WHitehouse trumpeted th same thing, but it's still not working now as promised for Oct 1.

What do you think is not working now? I was able to complete the entire process.

Chris
12-01-2013, 11:39 AM
Just read the headlines @ google: https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl=dgpAM6uHns5HcjMpNBH4TkLBXzfxM&topic=h&siidp=20f5418536bf60e51a6e28020164cbb8b40b

Here's one story, Obama officials: Health care website fixed, but issues remain (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131201/POLITICS03/312010025#ixzz2mFJ8zSi8)


...But since its launch Oct. 1, the federal site has been riddled with error messages and system crashes. The Obama administration has called the problems inexcusable and set a new deadline of Nov. 30 for the site to function for the “vast majority” of users.

“We now believe that the healthcare.gov site works smoothly for the vast majority of users,” said Julie Bataille, spokeswoman for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. It means about 80 percent of users can successfully complete an application online, up from about 30 percent five weeks ago, Bataille said.

Still, an attempt to apply for health care on the Michigan exchange Sunday morning proved troublesome for a Detroit News reporter. A minor hurdle was encountered at the onset: The function to remind a user of a forgotten passcode didn’t work — something health care officials said Sunday is being fixed.

But a major one hurdle prevailed. After successfully registering an account, verifying identification and determining income eligibility for potential subsidies, the site produced an error message: “Sorry, theres a problem with our system.” The message suggested logging out and trying again in 30 minutes — effectively stopping the process before the reporter could view health care options.

http://i.snag.gy/DwuIT.jpg

“We still have work to do,” Zeints acknowledged Sunday....

JerryAL
12-01-2013, 11:43 AM
Just read the headlines @ google: https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl=dgpAM6uHns5HcjMpNBH4TkLBXzfxM&topic=h&siidp=20f5418536bf60e51a6e28020164cbb8b40b

Here's one story, Obama officials: Health care website fixed, but issues remain (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131201/POLITICS03/312010025#ixzz2mFJ8zSi8)

That was the exact same error message that I received yesterday all day long. However, today it was no longer there.

Chris
12-01-2013, 12:08 PM
That was the exact same error message that I received yesterday all day long. However, today it was no longer there.

That was the error they got today.

It's working better, by all reports, but it's still not stellar.

patrickt
12-01-2013, 12:24 PM
So it works better and you can zip right through to high premiums with coverage you neither need nor want.

countryboy
12-01-2013, 12:28 PM
All they did was add more bandwidth. I will assume none of the security issues have been addressed, and I will not be logging onto the site any time soon, if ever.

GrassrootsConservative
12-01-2013, 03:02 PM
Yay! Now people can actually sign up to get fucked in the ass rather than just attempting to.

Codename Section
12-01-2013, 03:05 PM
I'm sure people will rush to it and it will be an amazing success. I have Tricare. Bwahahahahahahahahah

ptif219
12-01-2013, 08:15 PM
CNN tried and it crashed

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/12/01/obamacare-website-crashes-when-cnn-tests-upgraded-version

patrickt
12-02-2013, 06:47 AM
The point is, it's like a highway to Detroit. Even if it's a grand highway, you're still ending up in Detroit. So what if we have a spiffy website that works so you can get insurance you don't want at a price twice the insurance you did want cost you. You know, the policy that President Obama personally promised you, you could keep if you liked it. He lied.

lynn
12-02-2013, 06:53 AM
Do you qualify for subsidies? Some states are going to court that didn't set up their own state exchange to fight the subsidies portion of the bill. Those states feel that the federal exchange is not allowed to provide subsidies and only the state exchanges can. If they win this part of the law, it will have devastated consequences for many people since they won't be able to afford coverage without subsidies.

Cigar
12-02-2013, 07:00 AM
Oh my gosh, HealthCare.gov is actually working!!!

I actually tried finishing an application just before midnight last night, November 30th, and still could NOT complete the application without getting an error message.

Now today, December 1st, I logged backed in and zipped right through the application all the way to the end without any errors. I actually was pleasantly surprised that it finally worked.

The one absolute guarantee about ObamaCare is that after today's bitching about ObamaCare ... there will still be ObamaCare for decades to come.

patrickt
12-02-2013, 07:36 AM
Do you qualify for subsidies? Some states are going to court that didn't set up their own state exchange to fight the subsidies portion of the bill. Those states feel that the federal exchange is not allowed to provide subsidies and only the state exchanges can. If they win this part of the law, it will have devastated consequences for many people since they won't be able to afford coverage without subsidies.

What you meant to say is that it would have devastating consequences because the very expensive new policies won't be paid for by someone else.

patrickt
12-02-2013, 07:37 AM
The one absolute guarantee about ObamaCare is that after today's bitching about ObamaCare ... there will still be ObamaCare for decades to come.

And, we all know what Obama guarantees are worth, don't we, Cigar.

Cigar
12-02-2013, 07:39 AM
And, we all know what Obama guarantees are worth, don't we, Cigar.

Yep ... your move. :wink:

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/p480x480/1393845_544886042250197_1889251798_n.jpg

Paperback Writer
12-02-2013, 07:45 AM
The one absolute guarantee about ObamaCare is that after today's bitching about ObamaCare ... there will still be ObamaCare for decades to come.

This is simply untrue. It's unsustainable. It will destroy the insurance industry within a few years and then you'll create an abysmal system of national health with a budget a billion times less than your spy and defence agencies.

Anyone who thinks this system will last is either defective or has gotten a second helping of the electric Kool-Aid.

keymanjim
12-02-2013, 07:46 AM
Yep ... your move. :wink:

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/p480x480/1393845_544886042250197_1889251798_n.jpg
All she has to do is find a doctor that will provide that healthcare.

Obamacare doesn't cover that. In fact, it makes finding a doctor even harder.

Cigar
12-02-2013, 07:51 AM
All she has to do is find a doctor that will provide that healthcare.

Obamacare doesn't cover that. In fact, it makes finding a doctor even harder.


I have facts and law to back up my claim ... what about you? :grin:

Paperback Writer
12-02-2013, 07:53 AM
I have facts and law to back up my claim ... what about you? :grin:

:roflmao:

nic34
12-02-2013, 07:58 AM
I'm sure people will rush to it and it will be an amazing success. I have Tricare. Bwahahahahahahahahah

Government health care that actually works, imagine that..... :wink:

Cigar
12-02-2013, 07:58 AM
"Obamacare’s Secret Success"

So what aspects of Obamacare might be causing health costs to slow? One clear answer is the act’s reduction in Medicare “overpayments” — mainly a reduction in the subsidies to private insurers offering Medicare Advantage Plans, but also cuts in some provider payments. A less certain but likely source of savings involves changes in the way Medicare pays for services. The program now penalizes hospitals if many of their patients end up being readmitted soon after being released — an indicator of poor care — and readmission rates have, in fact, fallen substantially. Medicare is also encouraging a shift from fee-for-service, in which doctors and hospitals get paid by the procedure, to “accountable care,” in which health organizations get rewarded for overall success in improving care while controlling costs.

Furthermore, there’s evidence that Medicare savings “spill over” to the rest of the health care system — that when Medicare manages to slow cost growth, private insurance gets cheaper, too.

And the biggest savings may be yet to come. The Independent Payment Advisory Board, a panel with the power to impose cost-saving measures (subject to Congressional overrides) if Medicare spending grows above target, hasn’t yet been established, in part because of the near-certainty that any appointments to the board would be filibustered by Republicans yelling about “death panels.” Now that the filibuster has been reformed, the board can come into being.

The news on health costs is, in short, remarkably good. You won’t hear much about this good news until and unless the Obamacare website gets fixed. But under the surface, health reform is starting to look like a bigger success than even its most ardent advocates expected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/29/opinion/krugman-obamacares-secret-success.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&

:grin:

Cigar
12-02-2013, 08:04 AM
100,000 Signed Up For Obamacare As Website Was Revamped


About 100,000 people signed up for health insurance through Obamacare's troubled online federal exchange last month even as government contractors raced to revamp the website, Bloomberg News reported. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-02/obamacare-website-sign-ups-said-to-reach-100-000-in-month.html)

An anonymous person familiar with the website's progress told Bloomberg that about 100,000 customers successfully selected a plan in November, roughly four times more than the amount of sign-ups in October. That number represents a steady increase in sign-ups, the person said, although the final enrollment numbers were still being calculated.

The White House announced Sunday that it met its goal of "having a system that will work smoothly for the vast majority of users." The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services said that 50,000 users can now access the federal exchange simultaneously.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-100-000-signed-up-for-obamacare-as-website-was-revamped

On-Line for 61 days ... and 22 more days before Christmas :grin:


http://assets.amuniversal.com/069c6e503a1701314a10001dd8b71c47.jpg

Chris
12-02-2013, 08:17 AM
Government health care that actually works, imagine that..... :wink:



Interesting, the ACA is not even about healthcare but only insurance and yet you perpetuate this myth.

Paperback Writer
12-02-2013, 08:19 AM
Government health care that actually works, imagine that..... :wink:

Military hospitals are government health care. Tricare is an insurance. :D


Does it bother anyone at all that AmazonTania and myself know more than most of you about your programmes?

Cigar
12-02-2013, 08:19 AM
Interesting, the ACA is not even about healthcare but only insurance and yet you perpetuate this myth.

Yes or No, did you have to register through the ObamaCare Website?

Cigar
12-02-2013, 08:25 AM
Military hospitals are government health care. Tricare is an insurance. :D


Does it bother anyone at all that AmazonTania and myself know more than most of you about your programmes?

Naa ... because it's all in your minds. :laugh:

Codename Section
12-02-2013, 08:27 AM
100,000 Signed Up For Obamacare As Website Was Revamped


About 100,000 people signed up for health insurance through Obamacare's troubled online federal exchange last month even as government contractors raced to revamp the website, Bloomberg News reported. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-02/obamacare-website-sign-ups-said-to-reach-100-000-in-month.html)

An anonymous person familiar with the website's progress told Bloomberg that about 100,000 customers successfully selected a plan in November, roughly four times more than the amount of sign-ups in October. That number represents a steady increase in sign-ups, the person said, although the final enrollment numbers were still being calculated.

The White House announced Sunday that it met its goal of "having a system that will work smoothly for the vast majority of users." The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services said that 50,000 users can now access the federal exchange simultaneously.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-100-000-signed-up-for-obamacare-as-website-was-revamped

On-Line for 61 days ... and 22 more days before Christmas :grin:




That's not a lot considering there's a mandate. More people ate at Burger King in a single day.

Paperback Writer
12-02-2013, 08:29 AM
Naa ... because it's all in your minds. :laugh:

You would believe that insurance and health care are the same things. You probably stay up all night watching paid programming, also. :rollseyes:

nic34
12-02-2013, 08:39 AM
Military hospitals are government health care. Tricare is an insurance. :D


Does it bother anyone at all that AmazonTania and myself know more than most of you about your programmes?


Yes, government funded.

http://tricare.mil/Welcome/MediaCenter/CongressionalReports.aspx

nic34
12-02-2013, 08:41 AM
Interesting, the ACA is not even about healthcare but only insurance and yet you perpetuate this myth.

The only thing I perpetuate is that the ACA is the regulation of insurance.

But my comment is not about the ACA, it was concerning government funded Tricare.

keymanjim
12-02-2013, 08:44 AM
100,000 Signed Up For Obamacare As Website Was Revamped

How many lost their insurance thanks to obamacare.

Peter1469
12-02-2013, 09:36 AM
Do you qualify for subsidies? Some states are going to court that didn't set up their own state exchange to fight the subsidies portion of the bill. Those states feel that the federal exchange is not allowed to provide subsidies and only the state exchanges can. If they win this part of the law, it will have devastated consequences for many people since they won't be able to afford coverage without subsidies.

Yes the way the ACA is written, subsidies are only available at the state exchanges.

Cigar
12-02-2013, 09:38 AM
How many lost their insurance thanks to obamacare.

How many have gotten cancellation notices each and every year for the last 3 decades?

Peter1469
12-02-2013, 09:42 AM
All she has to do is find a doctor that will provide that healthcare.

Obamacare doesn't cover that. In fact, it makes finding a doctor even harder.

And Obamacare doesn't pay for out of network care. So if you have emergency surgery and 4 doctors are there, and one is out of network guess who pays that part of the bill?

Peter1469
12-02-2013, 09:45 AM
Yes or No, did you have to register through the ObamaCare Website?

No.

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 09:51 AM
Do you qualify for subsidies? Some states are going to court that didn't set up their own state exchange to fight the subsidies portion of the bill. Those states feel that the federal exchange is not allowed to provide subsidies and only the state exchanges can. If they win this part of the law, it will have devastated consequences for many people since they won't be able to afford coverage without subsidies.

I have read those cases and most legal scholars have said they have no chance.

Plus, I would actually love to see the red state Governors and legislatures explain to their constituents why all the blue states, who would simply create their own state exchanges, get subsidies, while their states do not.

The one lawsuit is related to a guy who says $18 dollars a month for a subsidized ACA plan is to expensive for him to afford. So my question for him is, who is going to pay his $40,000 dollar bill when he ends up in the hospital for 3 days without health insurance???

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 09:56 AM
And Obamacare doesn't pay for out of network care. So if you have emergency surgery and 4 doctors are there, and one is out of network guess who pays that part of the bill?

Yes it does if you sign up for a PPO plan. You just have to pay higher coinsurance.

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 10:00 AM
How many lost their insurance thanks to obamacare.

No one, because they can get health insurance at anytime through the marketplace. This idea that the right keeps trying to promote is silly because you try to make it sound as if these people are simply losing their health insurance with no alternative to obtain it again.

countryboy
12-02-2013, 10:04 AM
No one, because they can get health insurance at anytime through the marketplace. This idea that the right keeps trying to promote is silly because you try to make it sound as if these people are simply losing their health insurance with no alternative to obtain it again.
Ummm, yeah, bullshit. Higher premiums and out of pocket costs aren't exactly a great alternative. We were supposed to be able to keep the plan we had. That was a lie. No amount of tap dancing will change that.

Chris
12-02-2013, 10:05 AM
Yes or No, did you have to register through the ObamaCare Website?


I pay for private insurance.

Did you register that way?

jillian
12-02-2013, 10:06 AM
Let us know if someone steals all of your info. You might want to buy one of those identity protection plans.


why would anyone steal his info any more than any other website?

i recommend lifelock as a general rule. but the hope that people not have health coverage is kind of ... oh.. i don't know... silly maybe?

Cigar
12-02-2013, 10:06 AM
No one, because they can get health insurance at anytime through the marketplace. This idea that the right keeps trying to promote is silly because you try to make it sound as if these people are simply losing their health insurance with no alternative to obtain it again.

The Stupid will hear what they want to hear .... all the time, every time.

Agravan
12-02-2013, 10:06 AM
No one, because they can get health insurance at anytime through the marketplace. This idea that the right keeps trying to promote is silly because you try to make it sound as if these people are simply losing their health insurance with no alternative to obtain it again.

So, in the choice between feeding you children and obtaining insurance a three times your previous payment, you would choose the insurance like a good little obamadrone?

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 10:06 AM
All she has to do is find a doctor that will provide that healthcare.

Obamacare doesn't cover that. In fact, it makes finding a doctor even harder.

:rollseyes: Really?!?!? So, in your mind having health insurance makes it harder to find a doctor?

Yea, I am sure pre-ACA doctors just loved taking on new uninsured patients.

Agravan
12-02-2013, 10:07 AM
why would they steal his info any more than any other website?
Because you're MANDATED to register.

Agravan
12-02-2013, 10:07 AM
:rollseyes: Really?!?!? So, in your mind having health insurance makes it harder to find a doctor?

Yea, I am sure pre-ACA doctors just loved taking on new uninsured patients.

What color is the sky on your world?

nic34
12-02-2013, 10:08 AM
obtaining insurance a three times your previous payment

cite?

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 10:09 AM
So, in the choice between feeding you children and obtaining insurance a three times your previous payment, you would choose the insurance like a good little obamadrone?

Three times?!?!?

Sorry that simply is not true, and if you are currently struggling just to feed your family, then you would most likely qualify for a huge subsidy to help pay for an ACA health insurance policy or Medicaid if your state was kind enough to expand it.

countryboy
12-02-2013, 10:10 AM
why would anyone steal his info any more than any other website?

i recommend lifelock as a general rule. but the hope that people not have health coverage is kind of ... oh.. i don't know... silly maybe?
Because other websites aren't as full of security holes. I've never had a fellow patron of my bank contact me to let me know they had received my personal information.

Soooo, not only are we forced to pay for coverage we don't want or need, but now we are forced to pay for third party credit security? Where does the soaking of the middle class end libs?

Cigar
12-02-2013, 10:11 AM
Because you're MANDATED to register.

You do know you can still use a Good-Old Telephone :laugh:

countryboy
12-02-2013, 10:11 AM
Three times?!?!?

Sorry that simply is not true, and if you are currently struggling just to feed your family, then you would most likely qualify for a huge subsidy to help pay for an ACA health insurance policy or Medicaid if your state was kind enough to expand it.
Exactly! It's only us working folks who are getting fleeced.

nic34
12-02-2013, 10:12 AM
Soooo, not only are we forced to pay for coverage we don't want or need, but now we are forced to pay for third party credit security?

Cite?

Do you all have any facts or is your only recourse to build strawman arguments all day......?

Cigar
12-02-2013, 10:12 AM
Because other websites aren't as full of security holes. I've never had a fellow patron of my bank contact me to let me know they had received my personal information.

Soooo, not only are we forced to pay for coverage we don't want or need, but now we are forced to pay for third party credit security? Where does the soaking of the middle class end libs?

I wonder how people registered for Medicare and Social Security without Al Gore's Internet :grin:

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 10:16 AM
Ummm, yeah, bullshit. Higher premiums and out of pocket costs aren't exactly a great alternative. We were supposed to be able to keep the plan we had. That was a lie. No amount of tap dancing will change that.

Have you actually even viewed the plans and their costs for yourself, or are you just reciting the daily Fox News talking points?

Why not just fill out an application yourself and come back with some actual real numbers. You can simply fill out an application without actually signing up ya know.

Chris
12-02-2013, 10:20 AM
The only thing I perpetuate is that the ACA is the regulation of insurance.

But my comment is not about the ACA, it was concerning government funded Tricare.


It is the regulation of insurance through requirements for coverage and tax-penalty-backed mandate it be purchased.

Cigar
12-02-2013, 10:23 AM
It is the regulation of insurance through requirements for coverage and tax-penalty-backed mandate it be purchased.

I wished Eating and Drinking wasn't taxed

countryboy
12-02-2013, 10:23 AM
Cite?

Do you all have any facts or is your only recourse to build strawman arguments all day......?
I was responding to jillian's recommendation that we should pay for lifelock.

Why do I need maternity coverage? I'm a fifty year old man, and my wife has had a full hysterectomy.

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 10:23 AM
Exactly! It's only us working folks who are getting fleeced.

Oh brother...

Only in America can a Democratic President implement a Republican model for health care and then have the Republicans complain and whine about their own system.

President Obama has and always will be a single-payer promoter, but he is also a realist when it comes to getting things through Congress, which is why he went the ACA individual mandate route. The reason why the Republicans have never offered up a viable alternative to the ACA is because the ACA individual mandate model is their alternative.

Cigar
12-02-2013, 10:25 AM
Oh brother...

Only in America can a Democratic President implement a Republican model for health care and then have the Republicans complain and whine about their own system.

President Obama has and always will be a single-payer promoter, but he is also a realist when it comes to getting things through Congress, which is why he went the ACA individual mandate route. The reason the Republicans have never offered up a viable alternative to the ACA is because the ACA individual mandate model is their alternative.

Now it's because of his Big Ears ... Racism is Over.

countryboy
12-02-2013, 10:26 AM
Have you actually even viewed the plans and their costs for yourself, or are you just reciting the daily Fox News talking points?

Why not just fill out an application yourself and come back with some actual real numbers. You can simply fill out an application without actually signing up ya know.

All of the MSM outlets are reporting this, not just Fox.

Why would I risk going on a website that is a known security risk? Last time I checked, PC World was a pretty liberal rag. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2066036/poor-security-on-obamacare-site-could-sacrifice-private-info.html

countryboy
12-02-2013, 10:28 AM
Oh brother...

Only in America can a Democratic President implement a Republican model for health care and then have the Republicans complain and whine about their own system.

President Obama has and always will be a single-payer promoter, but he is also a realist when it comes to getting things through Congress, which is why he went the ACA individual mandate route. The reason why the Republicans have never offered up a viable alternative to the ACA is because the ACA individual mandate model is their alternative.
It's nowhere near any Republican plan ever produced, and I think even a drone like you knows that. Do you use a cheat sheet, or have you actually memorized all of these talking points you're spewing?

Captain Obvious
12-02-2013, 10:34 AM
What do you think is not working now? I was able to complete the entire process.

Cognitive error.

Key symptom of liberalism.

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 10:34 AM
I was responding to jillian's recommendation that we should pay for lifelock.

Why do I need maternity coverage? I'm a fifty year old man, and my wife has had a full hysterectomy.

Oh my gosh...

It is called living in a civilized society. I do not have any kids myself, but I have to pay property taxes that support my local schools is that fair? By your logic, why should I have to pay taxes for a school that I am not using?

And you are not paying for "maternity coverage" in the sense that you are trying to make it out to be. The essential benefits simply means that if people need those benefits at some point in their life that they are available without question, and by keeping the insurance pool large enough it keeps the costs down for everyone.

Captain Obvious
12-02-2013, 10:37 AM
I was responding to jillian's recommendation that we should pay for lifelock.

Why do I need maternity coverage? I'm a fifty year old man, and my wife has had a full hysterectomy.

I highly recommend the vasectomy. Don't contaminate the gene pool.

countryboy
12-02-2013, 10:40 AM
I highly recommend the vasectomy. Don't contaminate the gene pool.
Reading comprehension not your strong point, eh?

Fuck you.

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 10:42 AM
It's nowhere near any Republican plan ever produced, and I think even a drone like you knows that. Do you use a cheat sheet, or have you actually memorized all of these talking points you're spewing?

Every comprehensive national health care plan that the Republicans have produced from Richard Nixon through Mitt Romney has included the individual mandate model. The Republicans offered up multiple version of the individual mandate model when President Clinton tried pushing health care reform back in the early 90's.

countryboy
12-02-2013, 10:43 AM
Every comprehensive national health care plan that the Republicans have produced from Richard Nixon through Mitt Romney has included the individual mandate model. The Republicans offer up multiple version of the individual mandate model when President Clinton tried pushing health care reform back in the early 90's.
The individual mandate is a small portion of the abomination known as "Obamacare". Your point?

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 10:51 AM
Interesting, the ACA is not even about healthcare but only insurance and yet you perpetuate this myth.

Without health insurance in America you have no access to quality health care, so who are you trying to fool?

And please don't say that you can get health care at your local hospital emergency room. If I hear one more foolish Republican say that I will lose it.

countryboy
12-02-2013, 10:53 AM
Without health insurance in America you have no access to quality health care, so who are you trying to fool?

And please don't say that you can get health care at your local hospital emergency room. If I hear one more foolish Republican say that I will lose it.
You can get health care at your local hospital emergency room.

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 10:59 AM
The individual mandate is a small portion of the abomination known as "Obamacare". Your point?

Small portion?!?!? The entire law is based on the individual mandate!!!

The only way to offer quality affordable health insurance to every American who wants it, even if they have a pre-existing condition, is either with an individual mandate like the ACA does it or with a single-payer Medicare for all type system.

There are no other options...

If the ACA were ever repealed every American adult and child with a pre-existing condition, which is currently about 100,000,000+ million Americans, who ever had to try to buy health insurance on the individual market would be out of luck!!!

The only way to cover pre-existing conditions, at a reasonable costs, is if EVERYONE in the country is participating in the system in one way or another.

countryboy
12-02-2013, 11:01 AM
Small portion?!?!? The entire law is based on the individual mandate!!!

The only way to offer quality affordable health insurance to every American who wants it, even if they have a pre-existing condition, is either with an individual mandate like the ACA does it or with a single-payer Medicare for all type system.

There are no other options...

If the ACA were ever repealed every American adult and child with a pre-existing condition, which is currently about 100,000,000+ million Americans, who ever had to try to buy health insurance on the individual market would be out of luck!!!

The only way to cover pre-existing conditions, at a reasonable costs, is if EVERYONE in the country is participating in the system in one way or another.
No other options? Get back to me when you want to have a serious discussion with a minimum of DNC talking points. M'kay?

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 11:02 AM
You can get health care at your local hospital emergency room.

And who do you think pays for that when the uninsured can't pay their bill, the health insurance fairy?

The average 3-day stay in a hospital is $40,000 dollars.

Cigar
12-02-2013, 11:02 AM
You can get health care at your local hospital emergency room.

Actually that's called Emergency Care, not preventive Health Care. :laugh:

Cigar
12-02-2013, 11:03 AM
And who do you think pays for that when the uninsured can't pay their bill, the health insurance fairy?

That's the point, the sane people who have always paid for it, but hopefully at a reduced cost because of The ACA.

JerryAL
12-02-2013, 11:06 AM
No other options? Get back to me when you want to have a serious discussion with a minimum of DNC talking points. M'kay?

Feel free to post all the links to these so-called comprehensive Republican ACA alternatives. I am sure everyone here would love to take a look at them.

Peter1469
12-02-2013, 11:10 AM
Yes it does if you sign up for a PPO plan. You just have to pay higher coinsurance.

Didn't know that.

countryboy
12-02-2013, 11:11 AM
And who do you think pays for that when the uninsured can't pay their bill, the health insurance fairy?

The average 3-day stay in a hospital is $40,000 dollars.
The same people who are paying for the subsidized Obammydontcare recipients.

Besides, I only said that because you promised to "lose it".

countryboy
12-02-2013, 11:13 AM
Feel free to post all the links to these so-called comprehensive Republican ACA alternatives. I am sure everyone here would love to take a look at them.
Why should I bother? Will you be convinced? I think not.

Is the cost of Obammydontcare worth it to insure approximately 10 million people? [/RHETORICAL]

Peter1469
12-02-2013, 11:17 AM
why would anyone steal his info any more than any other website?

i recommend lifelock as a general rule. but the hope that people not have health coverage is kind of ... oh.. i don't know... silly maybe?

Because it is not as secure as other websites that process personal info. Here is an article (http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/112913-680895-obamacare-website-security-fears-may-depress-enrollment.htm):


At a recent congressional hearing (http://science.house.gov/hearing/full-committee-hearing-my-data-healthcaregov-secure), security experts warned about ongoing security risks at the Healthcare.gov site.
Morgan Wright, CEO of Crowd Sourced Investigations, told lawmakers that Healthcare.gov had more than 500 million lines of code — more than 20 times as much as Facebook (FB) and nearly 10 times as much as Microsoft (MSFT) Windows 8 — and that this complexity made it ripe for hackers.
Wright also warned that there was no "clearly defined and qualified security lead" at the site, which he said was "inconsistent with accepted practices."
TrustedSec CEO David Kennedy added that "basic security was not built into the Healthcare.gov website," and no formal testing was done. As a result, he said, the site faced a "critical risk for unauthorized access."
When asked at the hearing whether the site should be shut down until it's secure, three of the four experts said "yes." (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/20/us-usa-healthcare-security-idUSBRE9AI0NR20131120)


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/112913-680895-obamacare-website-security-fears-may-depress-enrollment.htm#ixzz2mL4OlMlf
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=dW0sw4iSyr3P7iab7jrHtB&u=IBDinvestors) | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=dW0sw4iSyr3P7iab7jrHtB&u=InvestorsBusinessDaily)

countryboy
12-02-2013, 11:19 AM
Because it is not as secure as other websites that process personal info. Here is an article (http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/112913-680895-obamacare-website-security-fears-may-depress-enrollment.htm):
Standby to be excoriated for using IBD as a source......

Cigar
12-02-2013, 11:50 AM
The Benghazification Begins
Healthcare.gov is much better …. the crisis is over — for Obama and the Democrats. It’s just beginning for the Republicans, who won’t be able to let go of the notion that it’s a criminal scandal, and that mobs with pitchforks will march on the White House if only they can find the right words.

They’ll try everything. They’ll hold endless hearings; they’ll get the usual suspects to publish many op-eds. Maybe they’ll get 60 Minutes to do a report that has to be retracted.

…. health reform is, almost surely, over the hump.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/02/benghazification-begins/?_r=0

Peter1469
12-02-2013, 11:54 AM
Standby to be excoriated for using IBD as a source......

I think it will be ignored by the left. They can't counter it.

countryboy
12-02-2013, 12:46 PM
I think it will be ignored by the left. They can't counter it.
Wow, I guess you're right. Ya done runned 'em off. :D

Peter1469
12-02-2013, 03:30 PM
Happens a lot.

fyrenza
12-02-2013, 04:37 PM
@ countryboy ~ THAT's why his name is done in bold, green letters! lol

roadmaster
12-02-2013, 04:47 PM
You do know you can still use a Good-Old Telephone :laugh: Yes but they have to use the computer to put in your information. I still don't believe anyone has signed up.

ptif219
12-02-2013, 11:56 PM
I hope the liberals are happy since Obama does not care about security or hackers getting your personal information for identity theft


http://www.cnbc.com/id/101225308

fyrenza
12-03-2013, 03:17 AM
The absolutely amazing,
in the MOST horrible sort of ways,

thangs are that the libtards

not only think we're "stoopid" for not wanting to pay 3 to 5 times MORE for our health insurance,
with less coverage, and higher deductibles,

they also think we're retarded for not being willing to just put our personal info Out There,
for any and all hackers.

I'll tell you what ~

If FIVE libtards will put their info, out HERE,
for all of us to see and use in any way we choose?
You know ~
IRL name,
physical and mailing addy's,
phone numbers, home, cell and work,
date of birth,
social security number,
annual income from their W2's,
like that?

I"LL sign up for ObozoCare, AND I"LL LIKE IT!


<~ isn't holding breath

Cigar
12-03-2013, 07:09 AM
I predict The Conservative Anxiety Machine will hit overdrive during the next couple months :grin:

I hate to say I told yea ... But I Told You So :roflmao:

Chris
12-03-2013, 07:30 AM
I predict The Conservative Anxiety Machine will hit overdrive during the next couple months :grin:

I hate to say I told yea ... But I Told You So :roflmao:



Counting chickens before they hatch. Politics is unpredictable, I mean, who could have predicted the disastrous Healthcare.gov.

lynn
12-03-2013, 05:02 PM
Small portion?!?!? The entire law is based on the individual mandate!!!

The only way to offer quality affordable health insurance to every American who wants it, even if they have a pre-existing condition, is either with an individual mandate like the ACA does it or with a single-payer Medicare for all type system.

There are no other options...

If the ACA were ever repealed every American adult and child with a pre-existing condition, which is currently about 100,000,000+ million Americans, who ever had to try to buy health insurance on the individual market would be out of luck!!!

The only way to cover pre-existing conditions, at a reasonable costs, is if EVERYONE in the country is participating in the system in one way or another.

The problem is they are not all participating in the system. Most of your large employers are "self insured" employers which means all of their employees belong to that employer's pool not the insurance company's pool.The only obligation of the health insurance company is to administer the plan.

In 2011, the health insurance companies combined only had 11 million people in their pool. It is this reason why they pushed for the mandate.

del
12-03-2013, 06:36 PM
All of the MSM outlets are reporting this, not just Fox.

Why would I risk going on a website that is a known security risk? Last time I checked, PC World was a pretty liberal rag. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2066036/poor-security-on-obamacare-site-could-sacrifice-private-info.html

:laugh:

del
12-03-2013, 06:37 PM
It's nowhere near any Republican plan ever produced, and I think even a drone like you knows that. Do you use a cheat sheet, or have you actually memorized all of these talking points you're spewing?

so romneycare wasn't republican?

srsly?

ptif219
12-03-2013, 07:18 PM
so romneycare wasn't republican?

srsly?


Show the majority the MA house and senate that was GOP

del
12-03-2013, 07:52 PM
Show the majority the MA house and senate that was GOP

romney pushed it and romney signed it.

thanks for failing

jillian
12-03-2013, 07:57 PM
romney pushed it and romney signed it.

thanks for failing

romney liked it so much that when he did his official portrait it was of him signing romneycare

jillian
12-03-2013, 07:58 PM
The absolutely amazing,
in the MOST horrible sort of ways,

thangs are that the libtards

not only think we're "stoopid" for not wanting to pay 3 to 5 times MORE for our health insurance,
with less coverage, and higher deductibles,

they also think we're retarded for not being willing to just put our personal info Out There,
for any and all hackers.

I'll tell you what ~

If FIVE libtards will put their info, out HERE,
for all of us to see and use in any way we choose?
You know ~
IRL name,
physical and mailing addy's,
phone numbers, home, cell and work,
date of birth,
social security number,
annual income from their W2's,
like that?

I"LL sign up for ObozoCare, AND I"LL LIKE IT!


<~ isn't holding breath

post in english

Chris
12-03-2013, 08:03 PM
post in english

Then that would be "Post in English."

del
12-03-2013, 08:09 PM
Then that would be "Post in English."

post in complete sentences.

jillian
12-03-2013, 08:12 PM
Then that would be "Post in English."

get over it.

Paperback Writer
12-03-2013, 08:20 PM
http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_640x430/public/spam_monty-python_6.jpg

jillian
12-03-2013, 08:21 PM
http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_640x430/public/spam_monty-python_6.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE&amp;noredirect=1

Paperback Writer
12-03-2013, 08:23 PM
I actually do like Spam. I'll fry it up and eat it on a sammy.

Peter1469
12-03-2013, 08:27 PM
romney pushed it and romney signed it.

thanks for failing

The point is moot. Romnycare was done at the state level (authority), not the federal level (no actual authority).

del
12-03-2013, 08:28 PM
The point is moot. Romnycare was done at the state level (authority), not the federal level (no actual authority).

yeah, that damn supreme court is in cahoots with the commies.

please

Peter1469
12-03-2013, 08:29 PM
Spam is really good when the electricity has been out over 36 hours and you are very hungry. I like it uncooked (bad smell when cooked) with yellow mustard and hot sauce on it.

jillian
12-03-2013, 08:30 PM
The point is moot. Romnycare was done at the state level (authority), not the federal level (no actual authority).

see: general welfare clause
see: commerce clause

obviously, the high court disagrees with you. and you don't need "specific authority". the constitution requires no such thing.

Peter1469
12-03-2013, 08:31 PM
yeah, that damn supreme court is in cahoots with the commies.

please

What a leap. I do note that you have tossed the concept of federalism out the window- the constitution must have gone with it, because it is based on federalism.

jillian
12-03-2013, 08:32 PM
I actually do like Spam. I'll fry it up and eat it on a sammy.

i tasted it once… upstate at a cousin's wedding.

not a fan. but to each his own.

Paperback Writer
12-03-2013, 08:33 PM
What a leap. I do note that you have tossed the concept of federalism out the window- the constitution must have gone with it, because it is based on federalism.

What happened to federalism? It was a great idea your lads had. You ran from our system and became our system only without the pomp and beauty. :D

del
12-03-2013, 08:34 PM
What a leap. I do note that you have tossed the concept of federalism out the window- the constitution must have gone with it, because it is based on federalism.

did not scotus uphold aca as constitutional?

therefore saying that there is no authority is untrue, de facto and de jure.

Peter1469
12-03-2013, 08:36 PM
see: general welfare clause
see: commerce clause

obviously, the high court disagrees with you. and you don't need "specific authority". the constitution requires no such thing.

The general welfare clause applies to the enumerated powers within it. The Commerce Clause was meant to be a shield not a sword. And as we saw in the Obamacare case, SCOTUS is turning away from using the Commerce Clause to justify anything Congress wants to do.

Paperback Writer
12-03-2013, 08:39 PM
did not scotus uphold aca as constitutional?

therefore saying that there is no authority is untrue, de facto and de jure.

You should light a candle to John Adams for without his presidency no Midnight Judges, no rule by robes.

jillian
12-03-2013, 08:43 PM
You should light a candle to John Adams for without his presidency no Midnight Judges, no rule by robes.

really? interesting theory.

but how would you suggest constitutionality be assessed if not by the Court?

Chris
12-03-2013, 09:10 PM
did not scotus uphold aca as constitutional?

therefore saying that there is no authority is untrue, de facto and de jure.

As a tax penality--what the administration had argued it was not.

Authority delegated by the people, the ultimate authority.

del
12-03-2013, 09:15 PM
You should light a candle to John Adams for without his presidency no Midnight Judges, no rule by robes.

you're mistaking acknowledgement of reality for endorsement.

jillian
12-03-2013, 09:26 PM
As a tax penality--what the administration had argued it was not.

Authority delegated by the people, the ultimate authority.

that isn't aha the court said. it said it could be enacted under the taxing power.

the second sentence is not a legal assessment. it is your own opinion and has nothing to do with constitutional construction.

Cigar
12-03-2013, 09:26 PM
i tasted it once… upstate at a cousin's wedding.

not a fan. but to each his own.

The last time I had it, I was camping with my father and I was 10.

We cook steaks now :)

Peter1469
12-03-2013, 09:33 PM
that isn't aha the court said. it said it could be enacted under the taxing power.

the second sentence is not a legal assessment. it is your own opinion and has nothing to do with constitutional construction.


What is going to happen to future bills that call for loads of new spending, if Congress can no longer rely on the commerce clause but rather the tax authority? I think a lot of people are going to say no more taxes....

Chris
12-03-2013, 09:34 PM
that isn't aha the court said. it said it could be enacted under the taxing power.

the second sentence is not a legal assessment. it is your own opinion and has nothing to do with constitutional construction.

As a tax penalty.

The second sentence is based on the Constitution which reads "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

I'm not a legal positivist.

Cigar
12-03-2013, 09:36 PM
ObamaCare is forever, and will only get better. :)

Singularity
12-03-2013, 09:42 PM
Love Obamacare or hate it, it's here to stay. November is a long way away, and even if the law remains fundamentally flawed, for all political purposes -- at the very least -- there will be time for the administration to make repeal a question of wrecking a system that provided health coverage to many who did not have it before.

That's the rub of building opposition to something entirely on the basis of poor execution, not poor concept. That's what smart Republicans have done; the people who say we were just fine without any reform to begin with don't apply and never have. Yet those same guys are standing on fairly untenable ground. I think they recognize this.

Chris
12-03-2013, 09:42 PM
ObamaCare is forever, and will only get better. :)

You're dreaming, nothing is forever.

Cigar
12-03-2013, 09:44 PM
You're dreaming, nothing is forever.

What Color are you going to be tomorrow? :)

Singularity
12-03-2013, 09:47 PM
You're dreaming, nothing is forever.
You need a Republican president and majorities in both houses to put this thing away.

Even should that come to pass, a hypothetical new Republican administration will wish to focus on the future and defining its own legacy, while completely removing Obamacare will provoke a fight that can only bog any such effort down.

For all intents and purposes, the bulk of what's taking effect today was chiseled in stone last November.

Chris
12-03-2013, 10:20 PM
You need a Republican president and majorities in both houses to put this thing away.

Even should that come to pass, a hypothetical new Republican administration will wish to focus on the future and defining its own legacy, while completely removing Obamacare will provoke a fight that can only bog any such effort down.

For all intents and purposes, the bulk of what's taking effect today was chiseled in stone last November.


Your view is too short-sighted. Where are the ancient Greeks? The Roman Empire? Nothing lasts.

And I'm not a Republican.

keymanjim
12-03-2013, 10:44 PM
ObamaCare is forever, and will only get better. :)
Just like slavery, prohibition and segregation.

Singularity
12-03-2013, 11:32 PM
Your view is too short-sighted. Where are the ancient Greeks? The Roman Empire? Nothing lasts.

And I'm not a Republican.
Very well, then I expect the key provisions of Obamacare, subject to various reforms or revisions as time goes on, to have roughly the same survivability -- irrespective to how good or bad that will prove to be -- as Social Security, or Medicare. And I know you're not a Republican, I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the primary thing that must happen before this law comes into any jeopardy, unless our politics are fundamentally altered. That is, an election of a Republican president.

Singularity
12-03-2013, 11:37 PM
Just like slavery, prohibition and segregation.
Democrats would like nothing more than for Republicans to campaign against the law as it stands on the concept you just outlined.

JerryAL
12-03-2013, 11:37 PM
You need a Republican president and majorities in both houses to put this thing away.

Even should that come to pass, a hypothetical new Republican administration will wish to focus on the future and defining its own legacy, while completely removing Obamacare will provoke a fight that can only bog any such effort down.

For all intents and purposes, the bulk of what's taking effect today was chiseled in stone last November.

You would actually not only need a majority in the Senate, but rather a super-majority of 60 in the Senate to overcome a Democratic filibuster.

Good luck in achieving that super-majority, because it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

In addition, I would just love to see how Republicans would explain to the millions of Americans, including millions of children, who have some sort of pre-existing condition; why it is a good thing that they once again will no longer be able to get health insurance now that they repealed Obamacare.

Without Obamacare and the individual mandate, or a single-payer system, pre-existing conditions will not be covered in the individual market.

Singularity
12-03-2013, 11:50 PM
You would actually not only need a majority in the Senate, but rather a super-majority of 60 in the Senate to overcome a Democratic filibuster. Good luck in achieving that super-majority, because it isn't going to happen anytime soon. In addition, I would just love to see how Republicans would explain to the millions of Americans, including millions of children, who have some sort of pre-existing condition; why it is a good thing that they once again will no longer be able to get health insurance now that they repealed Obamacare.Without Obamacare and the individual mandate, or a single-payer system, pre-existing conditions will not be covered in the individual market.Republican members of Congress, at least the leadership, know the situation and know that it is virtually impossible to do what they are promising to do respective to Obamacare. However, they are in a Catch-22 of their own making. They have solidified control of the House via gerrymandering and reliance on partisan primaries, but any failure to proactively and aggressively attack Obamacare, at this point, will produce quite a few close shaves in the primaries. The rank-and-file Republican in Congress is terrified of that. Yet... if the GOP can't get away from Obamacare and find some way to prevent from being seen as agents of sabotage, scum and villainy (as Barack Obama will gleefully paint them), their long-term power prospects are, in a word, limited.

Ravi
12-04-2013, 04:34 AM
Because it is not as secure as other websites that process personal info. Here is an article (http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/112913-680895-obamacare-website-security-fears-may-depress-enrollment.htm):

Did you forget that I tore your "experts" apart on a different thread?

jillian
12-04-2013, 05:00 AM
Because it is not as secure as other websites that process personal info. Here is an article (http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/112913-680895-obamacare-website-security-fears-may-depress-enrollment.htm):

no offense, peter. but the "opinion" of john merline might be more credible if he hadn't written silly articles about being nostalgic for jimmy carter. and while he's entitled to his opinion, he isn't entitled to his own set of facts.

zelmo1234
12-04-2013, 05:22 AM
You would actually not only need a majority in the Senate, but rather a super-majority of 60 in the Senate to overcome a Democratic filibuster.

Good luck in achieving that super-majority, because it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

In addition, I would just love to see how Republicans would explain to the millions of Americans, including millions of children, who have some sort of pre-existing condition; why it is a good thing that they once again will no longer be able to get health insurance now that they repealed Obamacare.

Without Obamacare and the individual mandate, or a single-payer system, pre-existing conditions will not be covered in the individual market.

Not really, that is a Senate Rule, not a Constitutional Rule and Can be Changed, and I suspect that the Republicans would do so just to get back at the Democrats for doing it to them!

But the Elephant in the room is that Democrats are turning against this bill and have had just about enough of this President Usurping Congress?

If and I stress If, companies start turning their employee's into the pool, and many companies like mine have no choice, I think that it may never make it to the next president as Democrats side with Republicans to over ride this Presidents Veto!

And take into account it is just starting to come out that you can't keep your doctor either, For example, 10 of the 26 hospitals including the 5 top rated surgery hospitals in Connecticut Are not accepting Obamacare pool insurance?

So those that are forced to buy it are not going to have access to the best healthcare and doctors, and that will force too many people into the remaining system and that will push wait time through the roof!

People on the street are getting pissed!

zelmo1234
12-04-2013, 05:25 AM
Did you forget that I tore your "experts" apart on a different thread?

Have you forgotten that in the real world the opinion of a liberal does not usurp facts, only in the liberal loony land that you live in!

JerryAL
12-04-2013, 06:50 AM
Not really, that is a Senate Rule, not a Constitutional Rule and Can be Changed, and I suspect that the Republicans would do so just to get back at the Democrats for doing it to them!

People on the street are getting pissed!

So wrong because the Republicans no darn well that if they ever tried to remove the filibuster for legislation Obamacare would be the least of their worries once the Democrats regained control of the Senate again.

If the Democrats only needed 51 votes to pass a single-payer health care system they would and the Republicans know that.

Agravan
12-04-2013, 06:54 AM
So wrong because the Republicans no darn well that if they ever tried to remove the filibuster for legislation Obamacare would be the least of their worries once the Democrats regained control of the Senate again.

If the Democrats only needed 51 votes to pass a single-payer health care system they would and the Republicans know that.

Not really, they had the super majority in the first two years of the Obama reign and they didn't do it then.

Codename Section
12-04-2013, 08:02 AM
Did you forget that I tore your "experts" apart on a different thread?

I kinda doubt you did that. I'd rather hear from someone who does it for a living than people who process the information from political websites.

Codename Section
12-04-2013, 08:03 AM
So wrong because the Republicans no darn well that if they ever tried to remove the filibuster for legislation Obamacare would be the least of their worries once the Democrats regained control of the Senate again.

If the Democrats only needed 51 votes to pass a single-payer health care system they would and the Republicans know that.

Naww. They wouldn't. They could have during their supermajority and didn't.

zelmo1234
12-04-2013, 08:44 AM
So wrong because the Republicans no darn well that if they ever tried to remove the filibuster for legislation Obamacare would be the least of their worries once the Democrats regained control of the Senate again.

If the Democrats only needed 51 votes to pass a single-payer health care system they would and the Republicans know that.

If they wanted single payer they could have had it, and they did not!

So it is likely that not that the Nuc option has been used, it will be used very often, that is why I am proud of Senator Levin and Democrat that voted against it!

The problem with letting the cat out of the bag, is that you can't put it back in! And Single payer would also take the house and the Senate and the Whitehouse, and while it can happen, it is not likely for a long time!

Singularity
12-04-2013, 09:32 AM
The problem with letting the cat out of the bag,
The cat got out of the bag when it became acceptable to regularly filibuster cabinet nominees and federal judgeship candidates over criteria unrelated to an individual's qualifications. In case you're wondering, that partially began during the Bush years before an agreement between the parties. McConnell decided to flat-out ignore said agreement when Obama took office and it's widely understood he contradicted himself and his word in doing so.

(https://vine.co/v/hFX9FUmaV0Q)https://vine.co/v/hFX9FUmaV0Q

JerryAL
12-04-2013, 02:35 PM
Naww. They wouldn't. They could have during their supermajority and didn't.

The Democrats never had a pure super-majority of "real" true blue democrats. They had at most 53 when the ACA was passed and about 7 very moderate middle of the road Democrats.

ptif219
12-04-2013, 06:24 PM
romney pushed it and romney signed it.

thanks for failing


You fail to show the congress which means it is more liberal bias.

ptif219
12-04-2013, 06:30 PM
The Democrats never had a pure super-majority of "real" true blue democrats. They had at most 53 when the ACA was passed and about 7 very moderate middle of the road Democrats.

The youth or millennials are not happy. If they do not sign up Obamacare failes

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/young-voters-obama-approval-rating-100647.html?hp=l3

JerryAL
12-04-2013, 09:25 PM
The youth or millennials are not happy. If they do not sign up Obamacare failes

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/young-voters-obama-approval-rating-100647.html?hp=l3

Um,

Obama: 41%

Congressional Republicans: 19%

Yea, it looks like Obama should really be worried.

keymanjim
12-04-2013, 09:38 PM
Um,

Obama: 41%

Congressional Republicans: 19%

Yea, it looks like Obama should really be worried.
Yes, he should.
And, you should learn how those numbers are tabulated.

fyrenza
12-04-2013, 09:59 PM
It ain't repugs that Obozo needs to be worried about ~

his OWN are turning on him,

and the repugs lost any chance they had with their last two "offerings."

ptif219
12-05-2013, 11:12 PM
Um,

Obama: 41%

Congressional Republicans: 19%

Yea, it looks like Obama should really be worried.

He is worried more than you know. That is why he is out there with the class warfare again

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2013/12/05/gallup-graph-shows-hispanics-abandoning-the-president-in-droves-n1758278

zelmo1234
12-05-2013, 11:33 PM
Here is the problem for the democrats!

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/12/05/wow-obama-down-23-points-among-latinos-in-2013/

He is loosing his base. The so called Reagan Democrats are bailing and Hispanic numbers are returning to normal

If there is not a black candidate on the head of the ticket, the black vote does not turn out, like in 2010

The Democrats are going to oppose the Republican (Paul) plan to help Detroit, this will almost assure that the Levin Seat goes to the GOP with a fantastic lady in Terry Lynn land

Unless the ACA turns out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, Which it would still have a long, long way to go.

I do not see the Senate staying in Democratic hands. and the Democrats taking the house? is almost impossible now!

And if the ACa is still a burden for the Dems going into 2016 I see the purple and red state Democrats joining with the Republicans to override the presidential veto and actually repeal Obamacare!

Libhater
12-06-2013, 06:13 AM
Here is the problem for the democrats!

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/12/05/wow-obama-down-23-points-among-latinos-in-2013/

He is loosing his base. The so called Reagan Democrats are bailing and Hispanic numbers are returning to normal

If there is not a black candidate on the head of the ticket, the black vote does not turn out, like in 2010

The Democrats are going to oppose the Republican (Paul) plan to help Detroit, this will almost assure that the Levin Seat goes to the GOP with a fantastic lady in Terry Lynn land

Unless the ACA turns out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, Which it would still have a long, long way to go.

I do not see the Senate staying in Democratic hands. and the Democrats taking the house? is almost impossible now!

And if the ACa is still a burden for the Dems going into 2016 I see the purple and red state Democrats joining with the Republicans to override the presidential veto and actually repeal Obamacare!

In short, the 2014 elections combined with obummer's health disaster spells doom for the democrap party. I remember back in 1995 when the Republicans took control of the HOUSE when dozens of democraps either retired, died from humiliation or left to pursue another line of work. We will see the second great sinking of the dem party this time around. Count on it. To think there are still some if not all of the dems standing behind their decision to vote for this obummerscare tells us that they have no clue and that they as politicians are history.

zelmo1234
12-06-2013, 06:33 AM
In short, the 2014 elections combined with obummer's health disaster spells doom for the democrap party. I remember back in 1995 when the Republicans took control of the HOUSE when dozens of democraps either retired, died from humiliation or left to pursue another line of work. We will see the second great sinking of the dem party this time around. Count on it. To think there are still some if not all of the dems standing behind their decision to vote for this obummerscare tells us that they have no clue and that they as politicians are history.

Her lies the problem, the Republicans still have 11 months to screw things up? and they do not have a we rationalized plan that the people can rally behind! While I believe that the ACA is a total disaster and if the President does not renew the wavers, it is likely to have all kinds of people in an uproar? as that is when tens of million will loose their insurance. people should be finding out that the insurance they are paying for has vary few providers that will accept it, and all this will favor the GOP?

But what are we getting with the GOP???? is it not more of the same?

I want to know how they are going to Repeal and replace the ACA

How they are going to give the country surpluses in 5 years and start paying down the debt and if they will promise to try and pass a balanced budget amendment

How they are going to turn the educations system around and get the indoctrination out of the schools

what is the new tax code going to be and how will this help or hurt the country!

How are they going to save the SS system and will they give the opportunity for those that want it to break the cycle of forced poverty in your again years and start to build wealth for themselves and their families!

While I agree that the GOP baring something really stupid? should make dramatic gains in 2014, but will anything change? that I have real doubts in!

Cigar
12-06-2013, 07:23 AM
The ONLY way The GOP makes any gains, is if they Cheat The system, Manipulate The Rules and Flat out Lie!

Because the majority of people in The United States don't believe in their policies.

It's only a matter of time before they are gone for ever.

Libhater
12-06-2013, 07:34 AM
Her lies the problem, the Republicans still have 11 months to screw things up? and they do not have a we rationalized plan that the people can rally behind! While I believe that the ACA is a total disaster and if the President does not renew the wavers, it is likely to have all kinds of people in an uproar? as that is when tens of million will loose their insurance. people should be finding out that the insurance they are paying for has vary few providers that will accept it, and all this will favor the GOP?

But what are we getting with the GOP???? is it not more of the same?

I want to know how they are going to Repeal and replace the ACA

How they are going to give the country surpluses in 5 years and start paying down the debt and if they will promise to try and pass a balanced budget amendment

How they are going to turn the educations system around and get the indoctrination out of the schools

what is the new tax code going to be and how will this help or hurt the country!

How are they going to save the SS system and will they give the opportunity for those that want it to break the cycle of forced poverty in your again years and start to build wealth for themselves and their families!

While I agree that the GOP baring something really stupid? should make dramatic gains in 2014, but will anything change? that I have real doubts in!

I do agree with you in principle that the Republicans are always put in or on the spot to fix (undue) all of the bad policies left over from a miserable progressive presidency. I do agree with you as well that this will not be an easy task for the Republicans, and that I'm not sure the general populace will understand the severity of the leftist problems in our government. But I do see a few young and rising Conservatives in the limelight that may very well have what it takes to right all of these wrongs.

Repealing the ACA won't be possible until the Republicans have control of both houses and of the potus, and once they do get control, I have no doubt they will repeal that monster.
Surpluses will come only after they pass a balanced budget, and we all know that dirty harry reid refuses to even take up a vote on a balanced budget.
Charter schools worked everywhere they were implemented. Former Republican governor of Wisconsin can attest to that.
I'm with Steve Forbes for implementing a flat tax across the board.
I just soon see the SS system rot on the vine. George Bush introduced a bill to have 6% of a person's income go into a personal account. I believe in personal medical accounts as well. Did you know that the monies going into Social Security over a 45-year span of the average working time will produce a net loss of -7% over that span of time if invested? Meanwhile, those same SS funds if invested in the 500 stocks of the NYSE would have gained a +5% over that same time period. This isn't rocket science, rather, its just more common sense coming out of the Conservative/Republican mindset.

zelmo1234
12-06-2013, 08:01 AM
The ONLY way The GOP makes any gains, is if they Cheat The system, Manipulate The Rules and Flat out Lie!

Because the majority of people in The United States don't believe in their policies.

It's only a matter of time before they are gone for ever.

And it looks like you are a bit on the un informed side?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/generic_congressional_vote-2170.html

The polls are starting to be out of the margin of error?

It is now very likely that Dingy Harry will no longer be the President of the Senate!

The question will be weather the Republicans will have 50 seats, and the independent will abandon Obamacare and caucus with them, or if rambling Joe Biden will be the tie breaker, or if they can actually pull off MI and take full control of the Senate.

Codename Section
12-06-2013, 09:17 AM
Republicans and Democrats represent business as usual. Anyone who can't see that is blind.

Libhater
12-06-2013, 12:16 PM
Republicans and Democrats represent business as usual. Anyone who can't see that is blind.


How can you say that Republicans represent business as usual when not 1 Republican senator or congressman voted for the obummer healthscare monstrosity? Granted, there still seems to be a few spineless RINOs dirtying up the hallways of our congress, but we see many true rising Conservative stars on the threshold of taking America back to its true roots of compassionate Conservatism. To give up now is to allow the progressives to wreak even more havoc over the American people and of our freedoms and liberties.

Peter1469
12-06-2013, 12:19 PM
How can you say that Republicans represent business as usual when not 1 Republican senator or congressman voted for the obummer healthscare monstrosity? Granted, there still seems to be a few spineless RINOs dirtying up the hallways of our congress, but we see many true rising Conservative stars on the threshold of taking America back to its true roots of compassionate Conservatism. To give up now is to allow the progressives to wreak even more havoc over the American people and of our freedoms and liberties.

They still plan to spend the US economy over the cliff. Just at a slower speed than the dems.

lynn
12-06-2013, 03:07 PM
Republicans are not going to repeal the mandate for health coverage. They may change some of the rules in the law which would most likely not be in our favor but they are certainly not going to change the individual mandate.

Peter1469
12-06-2013, 03:19 PM
Republicans are not going to repeal the mandate for health coverage. They may change some of the rules in the law which would most likely not be in our favor but they are certainly not going to change the individual mandate.

Why not, other than the ACA can't work without it? It probably won't matter anyway. I doubt that enough young people are going to sign up. They are covered by their parents until they are 26, so that takes a lot out of the math right there.

JerryAL
12-06-2013, 07:25 PM
Why not, other than the ACA can't work without it? It probably won't matter anyway. I doubt that enough young people are going to sign up. They are covered by their parents until they are 26, so that takes a lot out of the math right there.

Um, you do realize that the only reason that children can stay on their parents plans until the age of 26 is because of the ACA right?

If the ACA goes away so does that provision.

Peter1469
12-06-2013, 08:37 PM
Um, you do realize that the only reason that children can stay on their parents plans until the age of 26 is because of the ACA right?

If the ACA goes away so does that provision.

Right. And the ACA cannot work unless a lot of young people sign up. So I guess that likely means 27-30 something. 26 and below won't count for purposes of funding the ACA.

ptif219
12-06-2013, 08:54 PM
Um, you do realize that the only reason that children can stay on their parents plans until the age of 26 is because of the ACA right?

If the ACA goes away so does that provision.

Not necessarily.

fyrenza
12-07-2013, 03:55 AM
It was to at least age 22, before ObozoCare,

and college/university students pursuing masters/doctorate degrees had access to a group plan,
which kept their costs low.

fyrenza
12-07-2013, 04:00 AM
But how ... racistly conservative of anyone to expect their children to WORK once they achieve adulthood, college or no.

Wouldn't want them having to face The REAL World until fully indoctrinated, eh?

zelmo1234
12-07-2013, 07:08 AM
Um, you do realize that the only reason that children can stay on their parents plans until the age of 26 is because of the ACA right?

If the ACA goes away so does that provision.

This was one that anyone can see is not only cheep, but the insurance companies like it! It is a huge profit center for them. As those less that 26 don't use insurance very much if at all!

They have the ability to pass the few and I do mean very few good things about the law on their own, just because the ACA is repealed does not mean that there will not be something to take the place of those few improvements.

Mainecoons
12-07-2013, 07:42 AM
Gosh, Jerry, why do you think the insurance companies wrote this law to begin with?

This was one of those unholy alliances that is in the process of playing out. Obama and the radical left really want socialized medicine/single payer. The insurance companies wanted an expanded, captive market they could raise rates and deductibles on at will. The whole intent of this law from the standpoint of the former was to crash the system so that they can then get single payer. The latter, as is typical of U.S. companies these days, only saw the short term benefits and didn't believe the former would get their single payer.

Once the short term problems with these web sites go away, the reality of ObamaCare is going to show up. Fat increases in premiums and deductibles, wholesale boycott by the young, and huge deficits are the coming reality of ObamaCare. Watch and Learn.

Mainecoons
12-07-2013, 05:23 PM
We'll see how well it works in CA real soon.


An estimated seven out of every 10 physicians in deep-blue California are rebelling against the state's Obamacare health insurance exchange (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/section/health-care-exchanges)and won't participate, the head of the state's largest medical association said.“It doesn't surprise me that there's a high rate of nonparticipation,” said Dr. Richard Thorp, president of the California (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/section/california) Medical Association.

Independent insurance brokers who work with both insurance companies and doctor networks estimate that about 70 percent of California's 104,000 licensed doctors are boycotting the exchange.
Mazer, a past president of the San Diego County Medical Society, agreed, saying, “I cannot find anybody in my specialty in the area that has signed a contract directly with any of these plans.


http://washingtonexaminer.com/doctors-boycotting-californias-obamacare-exchange/article/2540272

Whoops! :rofl:

Peter1469
12-07-2013, 05:47 PM
We'll see how well it works in CA real soon.



http://washingtonexaminer.com/doctors-boycotting-californias-obamacare-exchange/article/2540272

Whoops! :rofl:


[/FONT][/COLOR]


Hope and Change!

Mainecoons
12-07-2013, 05:56 PM
Couple more years of Obama and we'll all be hoping for change.

:grin:

fyrenza
12-07-2013, 07:35 PM
Mainecoons ~ AND out pan-handling for it!

jillian
12-07-2013, 07:48 PM
@Mainecoons (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=145) ~ AND out pan-handling for it!

maybe *you* will be. *shrug*

zelmo1234
12-07-2013, 07:53 PM
It looks like the providers network is the next shoe to drop on the ACA.

We have an area where the closest pediatrician is more than 100 miles away, and there are only 3 in a 200 mile area, looks like they will working 24 / 7 in those offices

Peter1469
12-07-2013, 08:23 PM
It looks like the providers network is the next shoe to drop on the ACA.

We have an area where the closest pediatrician is more than 100 miles away, and there are only 3 in a 200 mile area, looks like they will working 24 / 7 in those offices

I doubt it. They will take as many patients as they can and stop accepting new patients.

fyrenza
12-07-2013, 08:36 PM
zelmo1234 ~ Someone just posted about 7 out of 10 doctors in Cali opting OUT because of the sub-standard Fee/Pay schedules,

so y'all could end up with NO pediatricians in your area.

roadmaster
12-07-2013, 08:43 PM
@zelmo1234 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=588) ~ Someone just posted about 7 out of 10 doctors in Cali opting OUT because of the sub-standard Fee/Pay schedules,

so y'all could end up with NO pediatricians in your area. I just wonder if it will end up like abortion clinics. One place in the whole state.

fyrenza
12-07-2013, 08:58 PM
Could you imagine having to take VACATION DAYS just in order to get to a doctor's appointment?

roadmaster
12-07-2013, 09:00 PM
Could you imagine having to take VACATION DAYS just in order to get to a doctor's appointment? I know many here won't take it. Emergency rooms will be full.

Libhater
12-07-2013, 09:01 PM
They still plan to spend the US economy over the cliff. Just at a slower speed than the dems. I don't see it because its the Republicans that present a balanced budget every year that dirty harry reid doesn't even bring to the floor for a vote. Its the Republicans that have always been against tax increases, spending and burdening businesses with undue regulations. Wasn't it the Republicans that were against raising the debt ceiling? Wasn't it the Republicans save George Bush's one time spending on failed porkulus plans that sink our economy even more, and wasn't it the dems or obummer in particular that have no problem in using tax monies to bail out failing businesses like GM, and wasn't it obummer again who wasted 1/2 billion tax dollars on a pie-in-the-sky company called Solyndra etc.?

Peter1469
12-07-2013, 10:23 PM
I don't see it because its the Republicans that present a balanced budget every year that dirty harry reid doesn't even bring to the floor for a vote. Its the Republicans that have always been against tax increases, spending and burdening businesses with undue regulations. Wasn't it the Republicans that were against raising the debt ceiling? Wasn't it the Republicans save George Bush's one time spending on failed porkulus plans that sink our economy even more, and wasn't it the dems or obummer in particular that have no problem in using tax monies to bail out failing businesses like GM, and wasn't it obummer again who wasted 1/2 billion tax dollars on a pie-in-the-sky company called Solyndra etc.?

They don't present a balanced budget. The government uses baseline accounting (or budgeting). They call a fixed increase every year as the baseline. They are still spending X% more than the prior year. And when deficits are as high as they are, baseline budgeting even becomes more dangerous- we will never lower the debt by one cent that way.

Mainecoons
12-08-2013, 07:18 AM
More ObamaCare "success."


Widespread fears that Affordable Care Act exchanges would fail to guard customer information are already coming true in California, where the state exchange is giving selected insurance agents customer contact information, resulting in unwanted calls and emails to Californians who have checked out the exchange but declined to buy insurance.The Los Angeles Times’ Chad Terhune reports (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-exchange-names-disclosed-20131207,0,1224576.story#axzz2mm4xX6cO) that Covered California, which Obamacare proponents have held up as a rare example of a functioning state health care exchange, provides names, addresses, phone numbers and email addresses of customers who did not ask to be contacted.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/07/california-obamacare-exchange-giving-out-customer-information/#ixzz2mtBOTOBA

No doubt our little cadre of government lovers here will be delighted with this news--you know, the same folks here who think that the government's spying on you is perfectly OK.

Peter1469
12-08-2013, 09:11 AM
More ObamaCare "success."



No doubt our little cadre of government lovers here will be delighted with this news--you know, the same folks here who think that the government's spying on you is perfectly OK.[/FONT][/COLOR]

It has happened in DC too.

Libhater
12-08-2013, 10:27 AM
They don't present a balanced budget. The government uses baseline accounting (or budgeting). They call a fixed increase every year as the baseline. They are still spending X% more than the prior year. And when deficits are as high as they are, baseline budgeting even becomes more dangerous- we will never lower the debt by one cent that way.

Oh I agree with you, but its still the Republicans that are working toward addressing the overspending of our so-called entitlement programs. When have you ever seen a Democrat address or attempt to revamp our baseline budget woes? What Republicans seek to do is to stop the rate of increase with our future spending while keeping the prior year's rate intact.

Peter1469
12-08-2013, 10:29 AM
Oh I agree with you, but its still the Republicans that are working toward addressing the overspending of our so-called entitlement programs. When have you ever seen a Democrat address or attempt to revamp our baseline budget woes? What Republicans seek to do is to stop the rate of increase with our future spending while keeping the prior year's rate intact.

I agree that dems are worse. They have the train going 200mph toward the cliff. The GOP slows the train to 100mph and calls it a day.

JerryAL
12-08-2013, 08:01 PM
Oh I agree with you, but its still the Republicans that are working toward addressing the overspending of our so-called entitlement programs. When have you ever seen a Democrat address or attempt to revamp our baseline budget woes? What Republicans seek to do is to stop the rate of increase with our future spending while keeping the prior year's rate intact.

You have to be kidding right?!?!?

Every Republican administration dating back to Ronald Reagan has exploded the debt and deficits in this country.

If you overlay on a graph America's debt with the top marginal tax rates by year you will see that when Ronald Reagan cut the top marginal tax rate basically in half, while drastically increasing military spending, the debt started to skyrocket in this country.

The only time the Republicans care about the debt and deficits is when a Democrat is in the White House.

Chris
12-08-2013, 08:31 PM
You have to be kidding right?!?!?

Every Republican administration dating back to Ronald Reagan has exploded the debt and deficits in this country.

If you overlay on a graph America's debt with the top marginal tax rates by year you will see that when Ronald Reagan cut the top marginal tax rate basically in half, while drastically increasing military spending, the debt started to skyrocket in this country.

The only time the Republicans care about the debt and deficits is when a Democrat is in the White House.


True enough, but when do Democrats care? It's skyrocketing under Obama.

JerryAL
12-08-2013, 10:16 PM
True enough, but when do Democrats care? It's skyrocketing under Obama.

So go back to the pre-Reagan era tax rates. From the end of WWII until the time Reagan took office the debt and deficits in America were never an issue.

Americans suffer from unrealistic expectations. Most Americans tend to want the best of everything, but no one ever wants to pay the proper amount of taxes for those things.

Current tax rates in America are extremely low compared to the historical rates from the end of WWII to the Reagan years, regardless of what the foolish Tea Party type Republicans may think.

And by the way, don't take my word for it look it up yourself, simply google "top marginal tax rates by year."

zelmo1234
12-09-2013, 04:07 AM
So go back to the pre-Reagan era tax rates. From the end of WWII until the time Reagan took office the debt and deficits in America were never an issue.

Americans suffer from unrealistic expectations. Most Americans tend to want the best of everything, but no one ever wants to pay the proper amount of taxes for those things.

Current tax rates in America are extremely low compared to the historical rates from the end of WWII to the Reagan years, regardless of what the foolish Tea Party type Republicans may think.

And by the way, don't take my word for it look it up yourself, simply google "top marginal tax rates by year."

What happened to revenue when Reagan gut the tax rates?

And if you remember correctly, or maybe you are too young, our military was in terrible shape and not even able to preform a simple rescue operation in the desert with the equipment that we had, It had been gutted by Democrats after Vietnam!

Max Rockatansky
12-09-2013, 07:14 AM
So it works better and you can zip right through to high premiums with coverage you neither need nor want.

Agreed. The website may be working, but the program itself is still flawed.

Peter1469
12-09-2013, 09:09 AM
So go back to the pre-Reagan era tax rates. From the end of WWII until the time Reagan took office the debt and deficits in America were never an issue.

Americans suffer from unrealistic expectations. Most Americans tend to want the best of everything, but no one ever wants to pay the proper amount of taxes for those things.

Current tax rates in America are extremely low compared to the historical rates from the end of WWII to the Reagan years, regardless of what the foolish Tea Party type Republicans may think.

And by the way, don't take my word for it look it up yourself, simply google "top marginal tax rates by year."

We can't raise taxes enough to cover current deficit levels.

Mainecoons
12-09-2013, 09:16 AM
Poor Jerry is confused about the difference between marginal tax rates and the actual ones that were paid under these laws. As we have addressed that confusion with some of the other liberals here in the past, I'm not going to repeat that lesson. It is very easy to look it up and deal with your mis-education about this, Jerry.

Mainecoons
12-09-2013, 11:55 AM
However, to Jerry's credit I did find an ObamaCare success story!


It may have been a debacle, but there is one upside to the glitch-plagued rollout of the health care website: It’s become a powerful case study for crisis management consultants and their clients of what not to do.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/obamacare-website-woes-public-relations-100840.html#ixzz2n09qPBLy

:rofl:

JerryAL
12-09-2013, 06:19 PM
What happened to revenue when Reagan gut the tax rates?

And if you remember correctly, or maybe you are too young, our military was in terrible shape and not even able to preform a simple rescue operation in the desert with the equipment that we had, It had been gutted by Democrats after Vietnam!

Ugh... The United States of America is responsible for around 47% of the entire world's military spending. That is more than Russia, China, Great Britain, and France combined.

That is ridiculous...

That money should be spend here at home in America NOT trying to be the world's policeman.

We are currently spending $2 billion dollars a week in Afghanistan for what?!?!?

JerryAL
12-09-2013, 06:31 PM
We can't raise taxes enough to cover current deficit levels.

(1.) Nobody's saying that you have to raise the top marginal rates to pay off the entire deficit levels, but at the very least all of the ridiculous loopholes need to be closed for the very wealthy Mitt Romney types and the multinational corporations; who set up P.O. boxes in other countries and call them their headquarters just to avoid paying their U.S. corporate taxes.

(2.) The United States needs to quit trying to be the world's policeman!!! Spend or save that money here at home. The military industrial-complex is robbing the American taxpayer just as President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned us they would:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

- President Dwight D. Eisenhower on January 17, 1961

Peter1469
12-09-2013, 07:05 PM
(1.) Nobody's saying that you have to raise the top marginal rates to pay off the entire deficit levels, but at the very least all of the ridiculous loopholes need to be closed for the very wealthy Mitt Romney types and the multinational corporations; who set up P.O. boxes in other countries and call them their headquarters just to avoid paying their U.S. corporate taxes.

(2.) The United States needs to quit trying to be the world's policeman!!! Spend or save that money here at home. The military industrial-complex is robbing the American taxpayer just as President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned us they would:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

- President Dwight D. Eisenhower on January 17, 1961

1. I agree with cutting out loop holes. We probably need to end the mortgage interest deduction as well. That would be a lot of revenue for the Treasury. I don't think, however, that a US corp can simply use a foriegn address to legally qualify for the applicable tax procedures.

2. I agree and say this all the time. Most of the people you consider to be on the right here agree as well.

Max Rockatansky
12-09-2013, 07:20 PM
1. I agree with cutting out loop holes. We probably need to end the mortgage interest deduction as well. That would be a lot of revenue for the Treasury. I don't think, however, that a US corp can simply use a foriegn address to legally qualify for the applicable tax procedures.

2. I agree and say this all the time. Most of the people you consider to be on the right here agree as well.

Agreed as well on #2. My main concern is to do it in such a manner as to avoid creating a power vacuum. Our allies need to step up and carry their share of the load protecting world peace aka protecting trade routes from pirates, rouge nations and other assholes.

As for eliminating loopholes, I'm there as well. In fact, a flat tax with no deductions is a great way to go. I do think we should draw a line at the poverty level for paying taxes. As for how much the Treasury can count on from no mortgage interest deductions, I disagree for the same reason counting on revenue made from sin taxes; jack the taxes up on cigarettes high enough and a lot less people will smoke OR the black market in cigarettes will thrive. Either way, less revenue. In the case of mortgage interest, people will simply buy smaller, cheaper houses with a subsequent reduction in jobs and new construction. The Law of Unintended Consequences applies.

Peter1469
12-09-2013, 07:39 PM
Agreed as well on #2. My main concern is to do it in such a manner as to avoid creating a power vacuum. Our allies need to step up and carry their share of the load protecting world peace aka protecting trade routes from pirates, rouge nations and other assholes.

As for eliminating loopholes, I'm there as well. In fact, a flat tax with no deductions is a great way to go. I do think we should draw a line at the poverty level for paying taxes. As for how much the Treasury can count on from no mortgage interest deductions, I disagree for the same reason counting on revenue made from sin taxes; jack the taxes up on cigarettes high enough and a lot less people will smoke OR the black market in cigarettes will thrive. Either way, less revenue. In the case of mortgage interest, people will simply buy smaller, cheaper houses with a subsequent reduction in jobs and new construction. The Law of Unintended Consequences applies.

We should definitely keep our navy strong enough to keep the trade routes safe and open. Based upon its geography, the US needs to maintain its status as a sea power.

Max Rockatansky
12-09-2013, 07:45 PM
We should definitely keep our navy strong enough to keep the trade routes safe and open. Based upon its geography, the US needs to maintain its status as a sea power.

Agreed. We can remove our foreign bases, but only if allied powers properly take over since to do otherwise would create instability. Agreed completely about maintaining our sea power. The world is 75% water and we're separated from many of our trading partners by vast expanses of ocean.

Peter1469
12-09-2013, 07:51 PM
Agreed. We can remove our foreign bases, but only if allied powers properly take over since to do otherwise would create instability. Agreed completely about maintaining our sea power. The world is 75% water and we're separated from many of our trading partners by vast expanses of ocean.

At least the European powers can't afford to increase their military. They spend too much on social programs and are going broke.

Mister D
12-09-2013, 07:55 PM
We had vassals not allies. Our primary interest was in dominating Europe not protecting it.

Max Rockatansky
12-09-2013, 07:57 PM
At least the European powers can't afford to increase their military. They spend too much on social programs and are going broke.

That's their problem and why we must do this incrementally, say over 10-15 years. The Euros are finding out the hard way that their Social programs are excessive and failing. Sure, a bit of socialism is okay, but it must be supportable by a capitalistic economic system. Several of the Euro systems are not financially supportable.