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spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 06:41 PM
With my sexual character in limbo since before puberty, today I made the plunge to "Come out of the closet."

:facepalm:


I don't know which is worse, the act, or what we call it.


I made my lengthy statement to a potential cyber reception of 502 facebook friends. I might as well share it here, you can skip it if you want to get to my point.


"Here's the skinny. I'm taking the plunge and letting you all know I'm gay. There are so many explanations, conditions, rantings and points that I WANT to accommodate this statement...I could write a book. First and foremost, I am aware and content that it does not come as a shock to most people. I designed it that way by letting it be known by certain friends whom I knew would find it excruciating to keep it to themselves, and I didn't ask them to bear that burden. I didn't want to be an "out-of-the-closet" homosexual, because the thought of giving people the right to peg me among their convenient mesh of stereotypes was so infuriating to me. But I still wanted people to know the real me, and the thought of people having their suspicions contrasted with my silence to seem that I am afraid or uncomfortable with who I am is also annoying. There are many friends and family who have been and still are close to me, the kind of someone a person should feel comfortable sharing anything with, who I have "kept in the dark." This is dedicated to you. It is unfair for me to continue my silent agenda of trickle-down rumors, leaving you there to question why I don't trust you enough to confide in you directly. I promise, that's not it at all. I trust that you understand, as has always been. There's just always that element of going about this subject which never seems relevant, appropriate, necessary or comfortable enough to carry out. After all, if I am comfortable with it and I don't want it to define me, then why bring it up? I have decided now, bring it up because it's something even I struggle to understand. Bring it up because people want to understand. Bring it up because people deserve to know me, and I deserve to be honest. From here forward, the table is always open for discussion, and my exhausting duty of regulating everybody else's perception of me is hereby relinquished. Ironically enough, with the pressing of this post button on facebook, absolutely nothing changes, and every single one of you are still amazing to me."




Right now I'm jelly, watching the "likes" and comments roll in on my FB profile, but I also need to just vent a bit. This political forum community was, after all, sort of my testing grounds for coming out in a cyber environment.


The biggest challenge for hesitation up to this point was my question of why I need to even make this kind of thing known to anybody. The truth is I don't, just like heterosexuals don't need to make their preference known. The difference is in what people's preconceptions are. It is assumed that unless I specify otherwise, I am straight. This puts me in an awkward position that a straight person will never have to deal with. If the majority of people are going to understand me, I need to write it out for them. That would seem simple enough, because after all NOBODY can control their sexual preferences. If I have tried countless times to "fit in" with my heterosexual buddies by acting straight, and if I have endured the hell of stereotypes and hatred from people who don't even know I exist while not knowing how to be something else they can accept, then I can pass for a living and breathing testament to that fact. It would even be easy enough for me to say "to hell with you all, I'm a dick-smoking faggot." It would be, that is, unless you care about the people you want to be honest with.

You see, there is no instruction book for the way I am. Nobody is prepared for it, least of all myself. It's something my parents could never teach me. It's something NOBODY could really teach me, because some people have decided to find opposition to the way I am. They might be offended by a class, or even a chapter-long portion of curriculum focused on homosexuality. While I support their freedom of speech, why do they succeed in hindering mine?

Codename Section
12-06-2013, 06:44 PM
I never know what to say to this stuff. Like I wanna be supportive, but at the same time I don't care or want to care. Like I want you to be you 100% and be happy, but I don't really care if you're gay or straight.

I'm probably not going to understand, but that's ok. As long as you're happy being ya know out there and open and stuff then that's what matters not what other people think about it.

Codename Section
12-06-2013, 06:44 PM
In case that didn't come off as being supportive it actually was. I'd rather know an individual instead of a group.

Beevee
12-06-2013, 06:44 PM
You are who you are. Don't be afraid of it.

If there are people who can't live with it, it's not your loss. It's theirs.

Peter1469
12-06-2013, 06:46 PM
Hey Spunk, some of us knew that for years. I am sure you will receive more support that not.

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 07:40 PM
This is exactly how you need to feel, and how everybody needs to feel. The awkwardness comes from us both needing to express it in order to overcome stereotypes. @Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/members/866-Codename-Section) I missed the "reply with quote" thing.

Codename Section
12-06-2013, 07:46 PM
I'm still working my way through the gay male stuff, tbh. My outwards are better than my inwards. I had tons of lesbians friends in the corps. A lot of FMs are gay and they like all the same shit as me including women so we got along real well.

My friend Alyosha has a large segment of gay men that she hangs out with because she used to live in Dupont Circle (gay area near us). Because of her I am more comfortable now than I used to be. I still have --being honest--problems being hit on.

I don't like it. But when no one hits on me I am fine talking about shit like football or Bigfoot Hunters or whatever. It's just that most of her friends are like drag queens and I have a hard time understanding why they would want that to be their job. But whatever to each their own.

Am I helping or hurting?

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 07:48 PM
You are who you are. Don't be afraid of it.

If there are people who can't live with it, it's not your loss. It's theirs.

It is true. It would be fine if it didn't come down to those people trying to wage their opinion against a fact of life. Stubbornness can be a good thing, but only when it's used in good mind.

countryboy
12-06-2013, 07:49 PM
I never know what to say to this stuff. Like I wanna be supportive, but at the same time I don't care or want to care. Like I want you to be you 100% and be happy, but I don't really care if you're gay or straight.

I'm probably not going to understand, but that's ok. As long as you're happy being ya know out there and open and stuff then that's what matters not what other people think about it.
What Code said. :yo2:

Codename Section
12-06-2013, 07:49 PM
Here's the thing. I'm from Gautier, MS, a marine and am just typical messy, wipes my hand on my shirt, gun toting, redneck baseball hat wearing male. I am working on trying to be supportive and I am for gay marriage and shit like that. I'm just not comfortable hanging out in gay bars.

The sight of men making out for me is probably like the sight of heterosexuals making out to you. I can't change my gut reaction, just what I do about it.

Ok rambling. Not sure what to say. Bye.

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 07:50 PM
Hey Spunk, some of us knew that for years. I am sure you will receive more support that not.

I know. I'm going to try and make a point of being less in-your-face about it, which is after all my intentions for the whole ordeal to become non-issue. This is just a milestone for me and I needed a vent.

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 07:52 PM
I'm still working my way through the gay male stuff, tbh. My outwards are better than my inwards. I had tons of lesbians friends in the corps. A lot of FMs are gay and they like all the same shit as me including women so we got along real well.

My friend @Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863) has a large segment of gay men that she hangs out with because she used to live in Dupont Circle (gay area near us). Because of her I am more comfortable now than I used to be. I still have --being honest--problems being hit on.

I don't like it. But when no one hits on me I am fine talking about shit like football or Bigfoot Hunters or whatever. It's just that most of her friends are like drag queens and I have a hard time understanding why they would want that to be their job. But whatever to each their own.

Am I helping or hurting?

You're absolutely helping. I am not partial to the femmy-gay guys either. If I wanted a female, I'd be straight.

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 07:56 PM
Here's the thing. I'm from Gautier, MS, a marine and am just typical messy, wipes my hand on my shirt, gun toting, redneck baseball hat wearing male. I am working on trying to be supportive and I am for gay marriage and shit like that. I'm just not comfortable hanging out in gay bars.

The sight of men making out for me is probably like the sight of heterosexuals making out to you. I can't change my gut reaction, just what I do about it.

Ok rambling. Not sure what to say. Bye.

Dude, you have no idea how awesome that is. I can't think of a more honest and empathetic thing for somebody of your lifestyle to say. Don't change that a bit.

Peter1469
12-06-2013, 07:59 PM
I know. I'm going to try and make a point of being less in-your-face about it, which is after all my intentions for the whole ordeal to become non-issue. This is just a milestone for me and I needed a vent.

Vent away buddy!

oceanloverOH
12-06-2013, 08:03 PM
Hi, Spunky! *waving*

You disappeared for like four months and I wondered where you were. Welcome back! I'm happy for you that you have "come out", if it makes you more comfortable in your own skin. I've never gotten into a twist about such things....a person's sexual orientation is about as important to me as their hair color....a part of the person, but has no major impact on what a person is in their soul. And you're still the same soul, no matter what labels you may wear on the outside. The only issue I've ever had with......"gay-ness"?.......is when some folks get in your face with it, rub your nose in it, etc. But you're not that type, so it's all good!

Hugs
Ocean

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 08:34 PM
Hi, Spunky! *waving*

You disappeared for like four months and I wondered where you were. Welcome back! I'm happy for you that you have "come out", if it makes you more comfortable in your own skin. I've never gotten into a twist about such things....a person's sexual orientation is about as important to me as their hair color....a part of the person, but has no major impact on what a person is in their soul. And you're still the same soul, no matter what labels you may wear on the outside. The only issue I've ever had with......"gay-ness"?.......is when some folks get in your face with it, rub your nose in it, etc. But you're not that type, so it's all good!

Hugs
Ocean

It is annoying, really. If you think broadly, many kinds of people "over-do" their thing. It's an offensive defense mechanism, I think. But if everybody learns to give a little and take a little, there would be less need for that kind of behavior and it will correct itself. It's not an easy task, but we'll either learn to live with each other, or else the consequences of not doing so.

Chris
12-06-2013, 08:40 PM
Good for you, to me nothing changes, makes no difference, except to you, you're just spunkloaf.

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 09:37 PM
Good for you, to me nothing changes, makes no difference, except to you, you're just spunkloaf.

Nothing should change. It's ridiculous that such a statement needs to be made at all. I see nobody who is straight make a statement "So, there's this thing. I'm straight." Ridiculous, right?

Chris
12-06-2013, 09:47 PM
Nothing should change. It's ridiculous that such a statement needs to be made at all. I see nobody who is straight make a statement "So, there's this thing. I'm straight." Ridiculous, right?

Right. I've never said it It shouldn't matter.

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 10:00 PM
Right. I've never said it It shouldn't matter.

It's funny how it does matter. I've tried to ignore it, but sexuality is such a big part of your character. For example, whenever you see somebody (male or female, straight or not) you have personal thoughts about their sexual competence. Your thoughts about females are erotic, and the thoughts about males are how you "measure them up." I'm not saying you as in you, I mean to say the typical male heterosexual mind in general.

Mister D
12-06-2013, 10:10 PM
I'm a supportive guy but your sexuality is old news. Spunk, I figured out you were gay years ago. On the fn Internet. Are there people in your life that really didn't know?

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 10:41 PM
I've tried to pick this whole thing apart for a long time. For me personally, as a male, I think my attention to a male's sexuality escalated from "measuring them up" to "that's actually kind of impressive" to "if I were a woman, I'd be all over that" to "Oh shit, I'm gay." The thing I still don't understand is how my interest in females de-escalated from a moderate erotic interest that I remember having at a very young age to absolutely nothing as I feel now. That may be some kind of a fear or respect of a woman's "personal" space that embedded itself in my mind. This is only a personal perspective.

Codename Section
12-06-2013, 10:56 PM
Its the opposite for straight dudes. Girls were annoying and meh at a very young age and now I'd slap my sister for a chance to fuck Olga Kurylenko.

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 11:06 PM
I'm a supportive guy but your sexuality is old news. Spunk, I figured out you were gay years ago. On the fn Internet. Are there people in your life that really didn't know?

I remember coming out to this community, and you're right. It was years ago. To answer your question, it's not news to many people I know. I was careful to design it that way, by neither lying nor being suggestive. I was panning this day for years. It's hard for you to understand the social complexities and internal conflicts associated with being 100% gay, especially as a male. It takes balls to be ENTIRELY yourself, but it also takes balls to preserve your character when revealing your true self in an unforgiving world. You don't want to seem like you're just trying to fuck with people for attention; you don't want to seem like you're not sure of yourself; you don't want to seem like you're afraid or ashamed ; but all the while that is hard to do while maintaining sincerity and appropriateness. I want people to know that nothing has changed, and that I had no intentions of ever fooling anybody. NONE of this needs to be considered by any straight person, because their sexual identity is inherent. It's true that most people simply don't care, but that's only part of it. Now that I'm out, I have to think of people wondering "Why NOW did he come out? I thought I was good friends with him, why hasn't he told me before?" Even my mom asked me tonight "[Spunkloaf], people KNOW you. I tell everybody you're gay when I talk about you." I explained to her that it's different than me being my own man and telling people directly rather than them having to hear it from others and live with that elephant in the room. If I had just announced it without this much care to the reception of it, people might misunderstand my intentions and doubt my sincerity. It's because people in general simply don't understand the nature of it, and that includes myself.

spunkloaf
12-06-2013, 11:12 PM
Its the opposite for straight dudes. Girls were annoying and meh at a very young age and now I'd slap my sister for a chance to fuck Olga Kurylenko.

I know the feeling. I have faint memories. In my case, my sexuality was awakened at a very young age, and it seems that is not so uncommon for many people. For the sheltered-minded, it would shatter their world if they found out how many kids are experimenting these days, and the age it begins. But, it also seems to make little difference for who turns out straight or gay.

The Xl
12-06-2013, 11:20 PM
Good for you. Be true to yourself, fuck what everyone else has to say.

Codename Section
12-06-2013, 11:22 PM
I know the feeling. I have faint memories. In my case, my sexuality was awakened at a very young age, and it seems that is not so uncommon for many people. For the sheltered-minded, it would shatter their world if they found out how many kids are experimenting these days, and the age it begins. But, it also seems to make little difference for who turns out straight or gay.

If y'all don't like women, what's up with the big tits thing? Alyosha used to drag me around in NYC and every fucking drag queen and regular gay would get excited over her boobs. I asked one about it and he goes, all gays love big boobs.

Wassup with that?

spunkloaf
12-07-2013, 03:27 AM
If y'all don't like women, what's up with the big tits thing? Alyosha used to drag me around in NYC and every fucking drag queen and regular gay would get excited over her boobs. I asked one about it and he goes, all gays love big boobs.

Wassup with that?

I'll tell you when I know. Seems like a localized fad. Boobs to me are bland. Fun to bounce maybe, but nothing happening downstairs.

zelmo1234
12-07-2013, 08:11 AM
Its the opposite for straight dudes. Girls were annoying and meh at a very young age and now I'd slap my sister for a chance to fuck Olga Kurylenko.

You know we are going to have to talk about that think before you post thing again are we not? :)

Some one is going to find this offensive!

zelmo1234
12-07-2013, 08:15 AM
I guess Spunk if this is what makes you happy? I an happy for you!

What I don't understand is why I needed to know! I am guessing that you are the same person today as you were yesterday!

That is my confusion with the G.L.B.T communities? Why is it important that I know what you like!

Do you feel it makes you different today that yesterday?

Codename Section
12-07-2013, 09:39 AM
You know we are going to have to talk about that think before you post thing again are we not? :)

Some one is going to find this offensive!

Yeh, but she's not posting anymore. Basically, it's like being out with the boys now.

McCool
12-07-2013, 11:04 AM
With my sexual character in limbo since before puberty, today I made the plunge to "Come out of the closet."

:facepalm:


I don't know which is worse, the act, or what we call it.


I made my lengthy statement to a potential cyber reception of 502 facebook friends. I might as well share it here, you can skip it if you want to get to my point.


"Here's the skinny. I'm taking the plunge and letting you all know I'm gay. There are so many explanations, conditions, rantings and points that I WANT to accommodate this statement...I could write a book. First and foremost, I am aware and content that it does not come as a shock to most people. I designed it that way by letting it be known by certain friends whom I knew would find it excruciating to keep it to themselves, and I didn't ask them to bear that burden. I didn't want to be an "out-of-the-closet" homosexual, because the thought of giving people the right to peg me among their convenient mesh of stereotypes was so infuriating to me. But I still wanted people to know the real me, and the thought of people having their suspicions contrasted with my silence to seem that I am afraid or uncomfortable with who I am is also annoying. There are many friends and family who have been and still are close to me, the kind of someone a person should feel comfortable sharing anything with, who I have "kept in the dark." This is dedicated to you. It is unfair for me to continue my silent agenda of trickle-down rumors, leaving you there to question why I don't trust you enough to confide in you directly. I promise, that's not it at all. I trust that you understand, as has always been. There's just always that element of going about this subject which never seems relevant, appropriate, necessary or comfortable enough to carry out. After all, if I am comfortable with it and I don't want it to define me, then why bring it up? I have decided now, bring it up because it's something even I struggle to understand. Bring it up because people want to understand. Bring it up because people deserve to know me, and I deserve to be honest. From here forward, the table is always open for discussion, and my exhausting duty of regulating everybody else's perception of me is hereby relinquished. Ironically enough, with the pressing of this post button on facebook, absolutely nothing changes, and every single one of you are still amazing to me."




Right now I'm jelly, watching the "likes" and comments roll in on my FB profile, but I also need to just vent a bit. This political forum community was, after all, sort of my testing grounds for coming out in a cyber environment.


The biggest challenge for hesitation up to this point was my question of why I need to even make this kind of thing known to anybody. The truth is I don't, just like heterosexuals don't need to make their preference known. The difference is in what people's preconceptions are. It is assumed that unless I specify otherwise, I am straight. This puts me in an awkward position that a straight person will never have to deal with. If the majority of people are going to understand me, I need to write it out for them. That would seem simple enough, because after all NOBODY can control their sexual preferences. If I have tried countless times to "fit in" with my heterosexual buddies by acting straight, and if I have endured the hell of stereotypes and hatred from people who don't even know I exist while not knowing how to be something else they can accept, then I can pass for a living and breathing testament to that fact. It would even be easy enough for me to say "to hell with you all, I'm a dick-smoking faggot." It would be, that is, unless you care about the people you want to be honest with.

You see, there is no instruction book for the way I am. Nobody is prepared for it, least of all myself. It's something my parents could never teach me. It's something NOBODY could really teach me, because some people have decided to find opposition to the way I am. They might be offended by a class, or even a chapter-long portion of curriculum focused on homosexuality. While I support their freedom of speech, why do they succeed in hindering mine? You'll get no grief from me. In fact, I once thought how cool it would be if there were just men in the world (minus the sex drive and potential for hostility). A friend told me "It would be just like our church mission's dude!".

Of course, now I'm happily married to a wonderful wife, so let's just keep this between you, me, and the forum fence post. :)

Codename Section
12-07-2013, 11:24 AM
What? Who'd want a world without women? I'd like a world where I'm the only man and like then they'd have to treat me as their sex slave or whatever.

Cthulhu
12-07-2013, 12:09 PM
Its the opposite for straight dudes. Girls were annoying and meh at a very young age and now I'd slap my sister for a chance to fuck Olga Kurylenko.

Oh sweet Murphy...how did this happen?

Codename Section
12-07-2013, 12:11 PM
Oh sweet Murphy...how did this happen?

Alyosha refuses to post anymore. ((shrugs)) so I can be as naughty as I want now in revenge for her not posting. :D

Cthulhu
12-07-2013, 12:13 PM
Alyosha refuses to post anymore. ((shrugs)) so I can be as naughty as I want now in revenge for her not posting. :D

And this somehow justifies fallen behavior?

Codename Section
12-07-2013, 12:16 PM
And this somehow justifies fallen behavior?

((thinks about it))

No. I'll behave. :(

Cthulhu
12-07-2013, 12:29 PM
((thinks about it))

No. I'll behave. :(

Don't revere my opinion of you.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTrzr20uKQKoodcjW9B_YvA_WcmU19Dj 4MWs0Nqg5uJ0jJv8WYZ

^He's the guy you gotta impress.

Beevee
12-07-2013, 02:42 PM
It is true. It would be fine if it didn't come down to those people trying to wage their opinion against a fact of life. Stubbornness can be a good thing, but only when it's used in good mind.

You could always say that you won't be bringing unwanted children into this world and could they say the same?

zelmo1234
12-07-2013, 03:19 PM
Yeh, but she's not posting anymore. Basically, it's like being out with the boys now.

Did you lock her in a closet?

I am going to miss her!

zelmo1234
12-07-2013, 03:22 PM
And this somehow justifies fallen behavior?

Now this goes to character?

And Character is what you do when no one is looking?

If she can't trust him on a forum? Can she really trust him?

Sorry Code but the truth hurts sometimes!

zelmo1234
12-07-2013, 03:23 PM
Don't revere my opinion of you.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTrzr20uKQKoodcjW9B_YvA_WcmU19Dj 4MWs0Nqg5uJ0jJv8WYZ

^He's the guy you gotta impress.

Actually just asking him for forgiveness should do the trick!

Cthulhu
12-07-2013, 03:44 PM
Actually just asking him for forgiveness should do the trick!

Some might even say he finds repenting impressive.

Codename Section
12-07-2013, 04:26 PM
Now this goes to character?

And Character is what you do when no one is looking?

If she can't trust him on a forum? Can she really trust him?

Sorry Code but the truth hurts sometimes!

LOL, she trusts me with her life. I trust her with mine. We've proven ourselves to each other. Paperback Writer calls us "Pullo and Vorenus"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RIXyPJheIm0/URkENZILOHI/AAAAAAAAJMI/FhfuMSK_tas/s400/pullo+and+vorenus.jpg


I'm sure you all can guess which one he implies is the big, dumb, strong one.

spunkloaf
12-07-2013, 06:00 PM
I guess Spunk if this is what makes you happy? I an happy for you!

What I don't understand is why I needed to know! I am guessing that you are the same person today as you were yesterday!

That is my confusion with the G.L.B.T communities? Why is it important that I know what you like!

Do you feel it makes you different today that yesterday?

No. I've tried to explain a few times, but I'll try again. Everybody in society is assumed to be "straight" until they prove otherwise. And so it would be dishonest for me to keep acting straight and not telling people. It's actually an unpleasant process, I thought it would be kind of liberating but mostly I feel kind of silly and embarrassed, yet humbled by all the extra support from people. It should not change a thing at all, except for my own peace of mind and that others can feel open talking to me about it.

jillian
12-07-2013, 06:05 PM
I never know what to say to this stuff. Like I wanna be supportive, but at the same time I don't care or want to care. Like I want you to be you 100% and be happy, but I don't really care if you're gay or straight.

I'm probably not going to understand, but that's ok. As long as you're happy being ya know out there and open and stuff then that's what matters not what other people think about it.


you did fine.

jillian
12-07-2013, 06:06 PM
With my sexual character in limbo since before puberty, today I made the plunge to "Come out of the closet."

:facepalm:


I don't know which is worse, the act, or what we call it.


I made my lengthy statement to a potential cyber reception of 502 facebook friends. I might as well share it here, you can skip it if you want to get to my point.


"Here's the skinny. I'm taking the plunge and letting you all know I'm gay. There are so many explanations, conditions, rantings and points that I WANT to accommodate this statement...I could write a book. First and foremost, I am aware and content that it does not come as a shock to most people. I designed it that way by letting it be known by certain friends whom I knew would find it excruciating to keep it to themselves, and I didn't ask them to bear that burden. I didn't want to be an "out-of-the-closet" homosexual, because the thought of giving people the right to peg me among their convenient mesh of stereotypes was so infuriating to me. But I still wanted people to know the real me, and the thought of people having their suspicions contrasted with my silence to seem that I am afraid or uncomfortable with who I am is also annoying. There are many friends and family who have been and still are close to me, the kind of someone a person should feel comfortable sharing anything with, who I have "kept in the dark." This is dedicated to you. It is unfair for me to continue my silent agenda of trickle-down rumors, leaving you there to question why I don't trust you enough to confide in you directly. I promise, that's not it at all. I trust that you understand, as has always been. There's just always that element of going about this subject which never seems relevant, appropriate, necessary or comfortable enough to carry out. After all, if I am comfortable with it and I don't want it to define me, then why bring it up? I have decided now, bring it up because it's something even I struggle to understand. Bring it up because people want to understand. Bring it up because people deserve to know me, and I deserve to be honest. From here forward, the table is always open for discussion, and my exhausting duty of regulating everybody else's perception of me is hereby relinquished. Ironically enough, with the pressing of this post button on facebook, absolutely nothing changes, and every single one of you are still amazing to me."




Right now I'm jelly, watching the "likes" and comments roll in on my FB profile, but I also need to just vent a bit. This political forum community was, after all, sort of my testing grounds for coming out in a cyber environment.


The biggest challenge for hesitation up to this point was my question of why I need to even make this kind of thing known to anybody. The truth is I don't, just like heterosexuals don't need to make their preference known. The difference is in what people's preconceptions are. It is assumed that unless I specify otherwise, I am straight. This puts me in an awkward position that a straight person will never have to deal with. If the majority of people are going to understand me, I need to write it out for them. That would seem simple enough, because after all NOBODY can control their sexual preferences. If I have tried countless times to "fit in" with my heterosexual buddies by acting straight, and if I have endured the hell of stereotypes and hatred from people who don't even know I exist while not knowing how to be something else they can accept, then I can pass for a living and breathing testament to that fact. It would even be easy enough for me to say "to hell with you all, I'm a dick-smoking faggot." It would be, that is, unless you care about the people you want to be honest with.

You see, there is no instruction book for the way I am. Nobody is prepared for it, least of all myself. It's something my parents could never teach me. It's something NOBODY could really teach me, because some people have decided to find opposition to the way I am. They might be offended by a class, or even a chapter-long portion of curriculum focused on homosexuality. While I support their freedom of speech, why do they succeed in hindering mine?


i don't know you. but good luck and good for you being out.

no one should live closeted.

Dr. Who
12-07-2013, 06:07 PM
No. I've tried to explain a few times, but I'll try again. Everybody in society is assumed to be "straight" until they prove otherwise. And so it would be dishonest for me to keep acting straight and not telling people. It's actually an unpleasant process, I thought it would be kind of liberating but mostly I feel kind of silly and embarrassed, yet humbled by all the extra support from people. It should not change a thing at all, except for my own peace of mind and that others can feel open talking to me about it.In what ways were you acting straight? Were you pretending to like things that you really didn't like or something along those lines?

Codename Section
12-07-2013, 06:25 PM
you did fine.

Thanks mom.

Codename Section
12-07-2013, 06:30 PM
No. I've tried to explain a few times, but I'll try again. Everybody in society is assumed to be "straight" until they prove otherwise. And so it would be dishonest for me to keep acting straight and not telling people. It's actually an unpleasant process, I thought it would be kind of liberating but mostly I feel kind of silly and embarrassed, yet humbled by all the extra support from people. It should not change a thing at all, except for my own peace of mind and that others can feel open talking to me about it.

Serious question, other than girls who might hit on you...why is that a problem?

I'm assuming gay people do the same things in life and relationships as straight people so its not like you don't shop at the grocery store or watch movies.

Just trying to understand because I really don't. Like say someone assumed I'm gay, what's the worst that happens in the conversation? Unless they're gay and don't get that I'm not, there's no awkward moment. We're still going to talk politics or lawns or sports...right?

Peter1469
12-07-2013, 06:59 PM
LOL, she trusts me with her life. I trust her with mine. We've proven ourselves to each other. @Paperback Writer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=862) calls us "Pullo and Vorenus"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RIXyPJheIm0/URkENZILOHI/AAAAAAAAJMI/FhfuMSK_tas/s400/pullo+and+vorenus.jpg


I'm sure you all can guess which one he implies is the big, dumb, strong one.

HBO's Rome. Great mini-series.

Captain Obvious
12-07-2013, 07:01 PM
Good to see you spunkloaf

texmaster
12-11-2013, 09:57 AM
Since you decided to put this out there to satisfy your ego and your 500+ facebook friends be prepared to take criticism.

I personally do not care what you do with your personal life. I only care when groups who support you try to change my culture based on your personal choice.

jillian
12-11-2013, 09:59 AM
Since you decided to put this out there to satisfy your ego and your 500+ facebook friends be prepared to take criticism.

I personally do not care what you do with your personal life. I only care when groups who support you try to change my culture based on your personal choice.

your "culture" is not law. your "culture" cannot excuse discrimination against your fellow citizens.

do what you want in your own personal life. but no one's equal protection under the law depends on them satisfying you,

texmaster
12-11-2013, 10:01 AM
your "culture" is not law.

Actually it is in a majority of states. Society chose long ago and still chooses to ban gay marriage.


your "culture" cannot excuse discrimination against your fellow citizens.

By that dumbass claim we would have no laws since all laws "discriminate" against a behavior or action.


Seriously, do you even think before throwing out these stupid emotional arguments a 4 year old can defeat?


do what you want in your own personal life. but no one's equal protection under the law depends on them satisfying you,

Obviously you are over emotional since I already said I didn't care what he did with his life.

You need to calm down and think before you type.

And equal protection under the law NEVER included sexual preference because if it did all sexual preferences would have to be included but you as so many far left nutballs before you didn't think about the consequences of tearing up the law for your over emotional positions.

jillian
12-11-2013, 10:07 AM
Actually it is in a majority of states.

and that will change, as it is starting to because the wacky states can't trump federal law. that's what happened with segregation, too.


By that dumbass claim we would have no laws since all laws discriminate against a behavior or action.

that's an absurd comment.



Seriously, do you even think before throwing out these stupid emotional arguments?

emotional?

i'm not the one who thinks that law should enforce my own personal prejudices. you'll have to get over it.

and your "culture"? no one really cares b/c slavery used to be the "culture" and jim crow used to be the culture".



Obviously you are over emotional since I already said I didn't care what he did with his life.

You need to calm down and think before you type.

i would suggest that you're projecting. i'd also suggest you look at Loving v Virginia before you go hurling insults. you know, just so you know what you're talking about.

Captain Obvious
12-11-2013, 10:14 AM
Since you decided to put this out there to satisfy your ego and your 500+ facebook friends be prepared to take criticism.

I personally do not care what you do with your personal life. I only care when groups who support you try to change my culture based on your personal choice.

Oh no...

More faux self victimization.

http://accordingtojewels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/index.jpeg

texmaster
12-11-2013, 10:14 AM
and that will change, as it is starting to because the wacky states can't trump federal law. that's what happened with segregation, too.

Race is a proven genetic trait. Homosexuality is not. You insult the stuggle of the true civil rights movement by pretending they are equal.


Tell you what, when a black man can hold a press conference and claim he is white and people accept and believe him then you can make such an ignorance and uneducated comparison between race and homosexuality.




that's an absurd comment.

The very fact you can't counter it proves my point. Claiming you are against the law decriminating against things you like without taking into account all laws decriminate by their very nature only proves you didn't think your emotional argument through.



emotional?

Emotional.




i'm not the one who thinks that law should enforce my own personal prejudices. you'll have to get over it.

Oh so you are for banning laws against pedophilia then right? After all they are discriminated against under the law as well.

So, do you?


and your "culture"? no one really cares b/c slavery used to be the "culture" and jim crow used to be the culture".

I'll say it again since you are so overwhelmed with your emotional outbursts you can't see straight. (no pun intended). Race is genetic. Homosexuality is not.





i would suggest that you're projecting. i'd also suggest you look at Loving v Virginia before you go hurling insults. you know, just so you know what you're talking about.

Loving vs Virginia dealt with race not sexual preference. Seriously, if that's the best you've got, the oldest most blown away argument in this debate you need to stop now.


Say it with me. Race is genetic. Homosexuality is not.


Homosexuality was never part nor was it referenced in any way in Loving vs Virginia. You really need to read the actual case before embarrassing yourself further.

texmaster
12-11-2013, 10:17 AM
Oh no...

More faux self victimization.




Wrong again. Reality of the obvious. Your sexual preference has no bearing on existing law. You have no evidence its genetic or natural so why should I throw away all known science and accept your new religion?

Your only argument is your own failed emotional state.

Captain Obvious
12-11-2013, 10:20 AM
http://barkersandrubes.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wingnut-woman.jpg?w=600

texmaster
12-11-2013, 10:24 AM
All you have is pictures because you have no argument beyond your emotional state.

Pathetic but expected.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/texmaster/ac0761ec.jpg

jillian
12-11-2013, 10:28 AM
All you have is pictures because you have no argument beyond your emotional state.

Pathetic but expected.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/texmaster/ac0761ec.jpg


ok snooks.

texmaster
12-11-2013, 10:29 AM
ok snooks.

You just made my case by running away from the debate points I challenged you with.

Don't worry, its expected of the far left on this issue. You can't hold up to scrutiny.

nic34
12-11-2013, 10:39 AM
Yaccou have no evidence its genetic or natural so why should I throw away all known science and accept your new religion?



Your opinion that its NOT genetic or natural isn't fact either....

But....

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=study-says-brains-of-gay&amp%3bsc=rss (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=study-says-brains-of-gay&amp%3bsc=rss)

Cthulhu
12-11-2013, 10:42 AM
The Topic of the thread-


With my sexual character in limbo since before puberty, today I made the plunge to "Come out of the closet."

:facepalm:


I don't know which is worse, the act, or what we call it.


I made my lengthy statement to a potential cyber reception of 502 facebook friends. I might as well share it here, you can skip it if you want to get to my point.


"Here's the skinny. I'm taking the plunge and letting you all know I'm gay. There are so many explanations, conditions, rantings and points that I WANT to accommodate this statement...I could write a book. First and foremost, I am aware and content that it does not come as a shock to most people. I designed it that way by letting it be known by certain friends whom I knew would find it excruciating to keep it to themselves, and I didn't ask them to bear that burden. I didn't want to be an "out-of-the-closet" homosexual, because the thought of giving people the right to peg me among their convenient mesh of stereotypes was so infuriating to me. But I still wanted people to know the real me, and the thought of people having their suspicions contrasted with my silence to seem that I am afraid or uncomfortable with who I am is also annoying. There are many friends and family who have been and still are close to me, the kind of someone a person should feel comfortable sharing anything with, who I have "kept in the dark." This is dedicated to you. It is unfair for me to continue my silent agenda of trickle-down rumors, leaving you there to question why I don't trust you enough to confide in you directly. I promise, that's not it at all. I trust that you understand, as has always been. There's just always that element of going about this subject which never seems relevant, appropriate, necessary or comfortable enough to carry out. After all, if I am comfortable with it and I don't want it to define me, then why bring it up? I have decided now, bring it up because it's something even I struggle to understand. Bring it up because people want to understand. Bring it up because people deserve to know me, and I deserve to be honest. From here forward, the table is always open for discussion, and my exhausting duty of regulating everybody else's perception of me is hereby relinquished. Ironically enough, with the pressing of this post button on facebook, absolutely nothing changes, and every single one of you are still amazing to me."




Right now I'm jelly, watching the "likes" and comments roll in on my FB profile, but I also need to just vent a bit. This political forum community was, after all, sort of my testing grounds for coming out in a cyber environment.


The biggest challenge for hesitation up to this point was my question of why I need to even make this kind of thing known to anybody. The truth is I don't, just like heterosexuals don't need to make their preference known. The difference is in what people's preconceptions are. It is assumed that unless I specify otherwise, I am straight. This puts me in an awkward position that a straight person will never have to deal with. If the majority of people are going to understand me, I need to write it out for them. That would seem simple enough, because after all NOBODY can control their sexual preferences. If I have tried countless times to "fit in" with my heterosexual buddies by acting straight, and if I have endured the hell of stereotypes and hatred from people who don't even know I exist while not knowing how to be something else they can accept, then I can pass for a living and breathing testament to that fact. It would even be easy enough for me to say "to hell with you all, I'm a dick-smoking faggot." It would be, that is, unless you care about the people you want to be honest with.

You see, there is no instruction book for the way I am. Nobody is prepared for it, least of all myself. It's something my parents could never teach me. It's something NOBODY could really teach me, because some people have decided to find opposition to the way I am. They might be offended by a class, or even a chapter-long portion of curriculum focused on homosexuality. While I support their freedom of speech, why do they succeed in hindering mine?

jillian
12-11-2013, 10:43 AM
You just made my case by running away from the debate points I challenged you with.

Don't worry, its expected of the far left on this issue. You can't hold up to scrutiny.

What "debate". Your idea of "debate" is apparently hurling insults. You claimed your "culture" should prevail. I said the law should prevail and directed you to Loving v Virginia which you have, apparently, ignored.

you have yet to demonstrate while your personal idiosyncrasies should take precedence over a fellow american's rights.

what's left to debate?

texmaster
12-11-2013, 10:44 AM
Your opinion that its NOT genetic or natural isn't fact either....

But....

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=study-says-brains-of-gay&amp%3bsc=rss (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=study-says-brains-of-gay&amp%3bsc=rss)

LOL I love the junk science studies.


Obviously you didn't read it:

But he cautions that these findings may vary in different people whose sexual orientation (http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=8902D6F8-F97C-E6FE-74B6D67845F05FEA) is not that clear-cut (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=bisexual-species), which his own research (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=smooth-thinking-about-sex) shows includes a majority of the population.

So not only can he not prove it, he makes sure everyone knows that he cannot replicate these findings in the majority population.

Every one of these so called studies always covers their ass in the end proving they cannot stand by their theories when held up to scruitiny.

Its a pity you didn't actually read it.

texmaster
12-11-2013, 10:46 AM
What "debate". Your idea of "debate" is apparently hurling insults. You claimed your "culture" should prevail. I said the law should prevail and directed you to Loving v Virginia which you have, apparently, ignored.

You can lie all you want. I'll just repeat the answer you ran away from before:

Loving vs Virginia dealt with race not sexual preference. Seriously, if that's the best you've got, the oldest most blown away argument in this debate you need to stop now.


Say it with me. Race is genetic. Homosexuality is not.


Homosexuality was never part nor was it referenced in any way in Loving vs Virginia. You really need to read the actual case before embarrassing yourself further.

Now please, don't lie again when the answer was given to you.

you have yet to demonstrate while your personal idiosyncrasies should take precedence over a fellow american's rights.

what's left to debate?

You still haven't answered my question about pedophilia rights. What are you afraid of? Can't take the debate?

jillian
12-11-2013, 10:47 AM
LOL I love the junk science studies.

it would probably be good for you to understand actual science.



Obviously you didn't read it:

yes, no one you disagree with "reads". got it.


But he cautions that these findings may vary in different people whose sexual orientation (http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=8902D6F8-F97C-E6FE-74B6D67845F05FEA) is not that clear-cut (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=bisexual-species), which his own research (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=smooth-thinking-about-sex) shows includes a majority of the population.

is your own sexuality not clear cut?


So not only can he not prove it, he makes sure everyone knows that he cannot replicate these findings in the majority population.

that is false.


Every one of these so called studies always covers their ass in the end proving they cannot stand by their theories when held up to scrutiny.[/quote

science deniers are funny.

[quoe]Its a pity you didn't actually read it.

again, no one who disagrees with you reads … we got it.

lol

texmaster
12-11-2013, 10:52 AM
it would probably be good for you to understand actual science.

Actually I do unlike you.

Humans have the same biological sexual reaction to sexual stimuli. The body prepares for procreation which requires heterosexual sex. Gay or straight the reaction by the body is the same.

Its too bad you are so willing to burn science books and ignore the facts before embracing your new religion of homosexuality.


yes, no one you disagree with "reads". got it.

When you claim it helps your case and the author says it doesn't its pretty obvious it wasn't read. Do you need me to break out the crayons for you as well?


is your own sexuality not clear cut?

Of course mine is because its actually based on biological science as I proved.

Humans have the same biological sexual reaction to sexual stimuli. The body prepares for procreation which requires heterosexual sex. Gay or straight the reaction by the body is the same.




that is false.

I quoted him genius. Are you having trouble reading his recant?


again, no one who disagrees with you reads … we got it.

lol

Which of course I never said but this is just another sad attempt by you to cover up the fact you didn't read the article where he said he can't prove these findings are factual in a majority of the population but considering your lack of research and debate skills its not a surprise :)

ptif219
12-11-2013, 10:53 AM
With my sexual character in limbo since before puberty, today I made the plunge to "Come out of the closet."

:facepalm:


I don't know which is worse, the act, or what we call it.


I made my lengthy statement to a potential cyber reception of 502 facebook friends. I might as well share it here, you can skip it if you want to get to my point.


"Here's the skinny. I'm taking the plunge and letting you all know I'm gay. There are so many explanations, conditions, rantings and points that I WANT to accommodate this statement...I could write a book. First and foremost, I am aware and content that it does not come as a shock to most people. I designed it that way by letting it be known by certain friends whom I knew would find it excruciating to keep it to themselves, and I didn't ask them to bear that burden. I didn't want to be an "out-of-the-closet" homosexual, because the thought of giving people the right to peg me among their convenient mesh of stereotypes was so infuriating to me. But I still wanted people to know the real me, and the thought of people having their suspicions contrasted with my silence to seem that I am afraid or uncomfortable with who I am is also annoying. There are many friends and family who have been and still are close to me, the kind of someone a person should feel comfortable sharing anything with, who I have "kept in the dark." This is dedicated to you. It is unfair for me to continue my silent agenda of trickle-down rumors, leaving you there to question why I don't trust you enough to confide in you directly. I promise, that's not it at all. I trust that you understand, as has always been. There's just always that element of going about this subject which never seems relevant, appropriate, necessary or comfortable enough to carry out. After all, if I am comfortable with it and I don't want it to define me, then why bring it up? I have decided now, bring it up because it's something even I struggle to understand. Bring it up because people want to understand. Bring it up because people deserve to know me, and I deserve to be honest. From here forward, the table is always open for discussion, and my exhausting duty of regulating everybody else's perception of me is hereby relinquished. Ironically enough, with the pressing of this post button on facebook, absolutely nothing changes, and every single one of you are still amazing to me."




Right now I'm jelly, watching the "likes" and comments roll in on my FB profile, but I also need to just vent a bit. This political forum community was, after all, sort of my testing grounds for coming out in a cyber environment.


The biggest challenge for hesitation up to this point was my question of why I need to even make this kind of thing known to anybody. The truth is I don't, just like heterosexuals don't need to make their preference known. The difference is in what people's preconceptions are. It is assumed that unless I specify otherwise, I am straight. This puts me in an awkward position that a straight person will never have to deal with. If the majority of people are going to understand me, I need to write it out for them. That would seem simple enough, because after all NOBODY can control their sexual preferences. If I have tried countless times to "fit in" with my heterosexual buddies by acting straight, and if I have endured the hell of stereotypes and hatred from people who don't even know I exist while not knowing how to be something else they can accept, then I can pass for a living and breathing testament to that fact. It would even be easy enough for me to say "to hell with you all, I'm a dick-smoking faggot." It would be, that is, unless you care about the people you want to be honest with.

You see, there is no instruction book for the way I am. Nobody is prepared for it, least of all myself. It's something my parents could never teach me. It's something NOBODY could really teach me, because some people have decided to find opposition to the way I am. They might be offended by a class, or even a chapter-long portion of curriculum focused on homosexuality. While I support their freedom of speech, why do they succeed in hindering mine?

I don't care what you do in your bedroom and I will not tell you what I do in mine. A word of advice though. Do not go to India

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304014504579251302477470782

nic34
12-11-2013, 10:53 AM
LOL I love the junk science studies.


Obviously you didn't read it:

But he cautions that these findings may vary in different people whose sexual orientation (http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=8902D6F8-F97C-E6FE-74B6D67845F05FEA) is not that clear-cut (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=bisexual-species), which his own research (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=smooth-thinking-about-sex) shows includes a majority of the population.

So not only can he not prove it, he makes sure everyone knows that he cannot replicate these findings in the majority population.

Every one of these so called studies always covers their ass in the end proving they cannot stand by their theories when held up to scruitiny.

Its a pity you didn't actually read it.

I noticed you didn't post any science to refute, you only offered ranting and opinionated hyperbole...

texmaster
12-11-2013, 10:55 AM
I noticed you didn't post any science to refute, you only offered ranting and opinionated hyperbole...

LOL Because I don't have to. The author himself states he can't replicate these findings in the population.

Try reading what I quoted this time. You can't claim its factual when the author himself admits he can't prove these findings exist in the population as a whole! LOL

jillian
12-11-2013, 10:56 AM
I don't care what you do in your bedroom and I will not tell you what I do in mine. A word of advice though. Do not go to India

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304014504579251302477470782

should we base how we are in this country by how they act in india?

i think that's kind of a non-sequitur. don't you?

by the same token, you could suggest he not go to russia. but we don't generally let russia govern our conduct.

Codename Section
12-11-2013, 11:02 AM
Someone got in touch with me because of this thread when I was attempting to enjoy some chicken wings.

Spunkloaf is speaking of a personal story of telling his friends about his life. That is the topic/subject of this thread. If you want to talk about culture and aberration or whatever please be respectful and start a new OP.

It's easy. You click on the "New Thread" button.

Thank you.

ptif219
12-11-2013, 11:25 AM
Your opinion that its NOT genetic or natural isn't fact either....

But....

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=study-says-brains-of-gay&amp%3bsc=rss (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=study-says-brains-of-gay&amp%3bsc=rss)

It may not prove what you think it does

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html#.UqiLCY13Y7A


"Paradoxically, it's more informative to look at things that have no direct connection with sexual orientation, and that's where this study scores," says Simon LeVay (http://members.aol.com/slevay/), a prominent US author who in 1991 reported finding differences (http://members.aol.com/slevay/hypothalamus.pdf) (pdf) in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus between straight and gay men.
But as Savic herself acknowledges, the study can't say whether the brain differences are inherited, or result from abnormally high or low exposure in the womb to sex hormones such as testosterone.


http://www.samesexattraction.org/What-causes-same-sex-attraction.htm

http://www.mygenes.co.nz/summary.htm

ptif219
12-11-2013, 11:28 AM
should we base how we are in this country by how they act in india?

i think that's kind of a non-sequitur. don't you?

by the same token, you could suggest he not go to russia. but we don't generally let russia govern our conduct.

Yet it is liberals that defend Islam yet Islam and other religions are against Gays.. Which is it? Is Islam a peaceful religion or do they kill gays?

ptif219
12-11-2013, 11:29 AM
Someone got in touch with me because of this thread when I was attempting to enjoy some chicken wings.

Spunkloaf is speaking of a personal story of telling his friends about his life. That is the topic/subject of this thread. If you want to talk about culture and aberration or whatever please be respectful and start a new OP.

It's easy. You click on the "New Thread" button.

Thank you.

Putting it on a public forum is not about telling friend

Codename Section
12-11-2013, 11:31 AM
Information: Textmaster started a thread on the topic of homosexuality. This thread is about someone's discussion with family and friends about personal information. That information could be anything. His happens to be that he's gay. If you want to discuss homosexuality in general, you can always start a new thread or post in Textmasters.

Codename Section
12-11-2013, 11:33 AM
Putting it on a public forum is not about telling friend

The subject is sharing uncomfortable news with family and friends. Read the OP. The subject is about sharing a change in your life with others. That change could be anything.

It doesn't kill you guys to start a new thread, does it? texmaster did it and I am sure the OP appreciates that he did. I know I do.

ptif219
12-11-2013, 11:54 AM
Information: Textmaster started a thread on the topic of homosexuality. This thread is about someone's discussion with family and friends about personal information. That information could be anything. His happens to be that he's gay. If you want to discuss homosexuality in general, you can always start a new thread or post in Textmasters.

You do not talk with family and friend through a public forum. Stop the BS

ptif219
12-11-2013, 11:56 AM
The subject is sharing uncomfortable news with family and friends. Read the OP. The subject is about sharing a change in your life with others. That change could be anything.

It doesn't kill you guys to start a new thread, does it? @texmaster (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=249) did it and I am sure the OP appreciates that he did. I know I do.

That is crap. What is going on here is letting anyone know here that is on the forum. If he wants family and friends to discuss it go see them or e mail them or call them

Codename Section
12-11-2013, 12:06 PM
You do not talk with family and friend through a public forum. Stop the BS

He did not say he was talking to family and friends with this forum. This thread is about his personal "coming out" story. It's not about whether gay is something you were born with. It's not about the politics of gayville. It's not even about gay science.

It's about relief of telling people something personal.

We are working in general to try and keep threads on topic because that is a HUGE complaint here. It does not kill you to stay on topic.

Codename Section
12-11-2013, 12:08 PM
That is crap. What is going on here is letting anyone know here that is on the forum. If he wants family and friends to discuss it go see them or e mail them or call them

And yet texmaster was cool enough, polite enough, and rule-follow-y enough to start his own thread. Follow his example. We had reports, I acted as a mod. You can PM me per our rules if you don't like it, but I'm not entertaining it in this thread.

Peter1469
12-11-2013, 02:34 PM
Notice: ptif219 has been infracted. Please don't respond to his posts in this thread.