Obamacare’s real promise: if you lose your health-care plan, you can get a new one

[Cigar]

The furor over "if you like your plan, you can keep it" touches on a deep fear in American life: That your health-care insurance can be taken from you. That fear is so powerful because it happens so often: Almost everyone in the country can lose their health insurance at any time, for all kinds of reasons — and every year, millions do.

If you're one of the 149 million people who get health insurance through your employer, you can lose your plan if you get fired, or if the H.R. department decides to change plans, or if you have to move to a branch in another state.

If you're one of the 51 million people who get Medicaid, you could lose your plan because your income rises and you're no longer eligible or because your state cut its Medicaid budget and made you ineligible. You could lose it because you moved from Minnesota, where childless adults making less than 75 percent of the poverty line are eligible, to Texas, where there's no coverage for childless adults.

If you're one of the 15 million Americans who buys insurance on the individual market, you could lose your plan because your insurer decides to stop offering it or decides to jack up the price by 35 percent. And that's assuming you're one of the lucky people who weren't denied coverage based on preexisting conditions in the first place.

more…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/12/07/obamacares-real-promise-if-you-lose-your-health-care-plan-you-can-get-a-new-one/

[Mainecoons]

Obamacare's real promise:

WE'LL cause you to lose your health plan and give you the "choice" of paying a lot more for a lot less and/or a bunch of crap you don't need or want. AND, don't be surprised if you can't chose your doctor OR hospital.

SUCKER!

[keymanjim]

Obamacare's REAL promise. (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/21/why-obamacare-is-fantastic-success/)

[Cigar]

Obamacare's real promise:

WE'LL cause you to lose your health plan and give you the "choice" of paying a lot more for a lot less and/or a bunch of crap you don't need or want. AND, don't be surprised if you can't chose your doctor OR hospital.

SUCKER!

Because everyone knows, before October 1st 2013, no one ever lost their Health Care Plan or Choice. :laugh:



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bar5bX-IMAAE99x.png

[Ravens Fan]

Obama's REAL promise was "If you like your plan, you can keep it. PERIOD. If you like your Doctor, you can keep them. PERIOD."

Regardless of what deflections or excuses are made, this was his promise. One that he made many, many times over. This was how he sold his plan to a nation, and he lied. He knowingly lied to all of us. There is no getting around that.

[Cigar]

Obama's REAL promise was "If you like your plan, you can keep it. PERIOD. If you like your Doctor, you can keep them. PERIOD."

Regardless of what deflections or excuses are made, this was his promise. One that he made many, many times over. This was how he sold his plan to a nation, and he lied. He knowingly lied to all of us. There is no getting around that.

The Keep it ... if the Insurance Company doesn't allow you to ... then who's problem is that? :laugh:

[Ravens Fan]

The Keep it ... if the Insurance Company doesn't allow you to ... then who's problem is that? :laugh:

Correction: The ACA mandates that the Insurance companies cannot let you keep it. Nice try tho.

[Cigar]

Correction: The ACA mandates that the Insurance companies cannot let you keep it. Nice try tho.

That's where Obama Fucked-Up ... he tried to help the stupid.

What he should have done is, if you want to Keep it ... you stick with it for 25 years; No coming to ObamaCare for 25 years.

... and if the insurance company do what they've always done, you just go without.

[Chris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHIfKnDjLxQ#t=47

Dodge that. Hattip, mainecoons: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/19805-Latest-ObamaDodge-If-you-like-your-doctor-you-can-pay-more-to-get-him

[Ravens Fan]

That's where Obama Fucked-Up ... he tried to help the stupid.

What he should have done is, if you want to Keep it ... you stick with it for 25 years; No coming to ObamaCare for 25 years.

... and if the insurance company do what they've always done, you just go without.



The original idea wasnt about Insurance companies dropping people, it was supposed to be about helping 30 million americans with no access to healthcare. The idea that the "evil" Insurance companies just drop people all the time is a relitively new argument... and one that I have never had happen to me or anyone I know in my 36 years.

His promise (lie) was that those who had plans and coverage that they liked would not be affected by his new law. They could continue on with their lives as normal, while those who desperatly wanted and needed coverage would now have access. This has failed miserably, as millions who had insurance are now being dropped BECAUSE of Obamacare. Now, in order to be insured, these same people must pay more out of pocket expences and monthly payments for less and even unneeded care. Oh, and these "evil" Insurance companies now are going to make even more profits.

Looks like Obama wasn't trying to "help the stupid", he was just leading them along, and they fell for it hook, line and sinker. The smart people were kicking and screaming as he destroyed a great healthcare system that just needed some repairs.

[nic34]

The ACA doomsayers are the real distraction. ACA is the least we should be doing in regulating the runaway health insurance industry. Their only goal is to make a profit, NOT TAKE CARE OF YOU.

That anyone would defend this is a fool.

[Cigar]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bar5bX-IMAAE99x.png

[Cigar]

The ACA doomsayers are the real distraction. ACA is the least we should be doing in regulating the runaway health insurance industry. Their only goal is to make a profit, NOT TAKE CARE OF YOU.

That anyone would defend this is a fool.

It was a Great White Hope ... until that Black Man was for it. :laugh:

[nic34]

^^^ yup, pretty much how the congress has treated this prez since the beginning.... ahem.... DeMint, McConnel.....ahem....

[Chris]

The ACA doomsayers are the real distraction. ACA is the least we should be doing in regulating the runaway health insurance industry. Their only goal is to make a profit, NOT TAKE CARE OF YOU.

That anyone would defend this is a fool.



Excellent well poisoning, nic, anyone who disagrees with you is a fool. Sure beats rational discussion, let's all just put government on a pdastal and demonize insurance companies--let's omit that government had the insurance companies write the ACA and that insurance companies are the ones who will gain by it.

[nic34]

So leaving the insurance industry the way is was is better?

It isn't even MORAL.

[Cigar]

So leaving the insurance industry the way is was is better?

It isn't even MORAL.

Well ... if you're going to live up to Do-Nothing ... you have to Actually Do Nothing :laugh:

[Ravens Fan]

The ACA doomsayers are the real distraction. ACA is the least we should be doing in regulating the runaway health insurance industry. Their only goal is to make a profit, NOT TAKE CARE OF YOU.

That anyone would defend this is a fool.

The ACA is the distraction. It does nothing to address rising healthcare costs, just dictates what prices/services it will pay. It does nothing to create more competition between companies, it did the opposite and made it harder for competition to rise. It does nothing to address any of the real issues, it just rewards certain Insurance companies, labor unions and politicians that have kissed this presidents ass.

Of course the industry is there to make money. Would you go to work every day for free? How can you expect innovation and problem solving from lack of research? Our's has been the best healthcare system in the world for a very long time. There were certainly issues that have needed addressed for a while, but this law has done nothing to that affect. Only a fool would think it has.

[Ravens Fan]

^^^ yup, pretty much how the congress has treated this prez since the beginning.... ahem.... DeMint, McConnel.....ahem....

If memory serves me right, the congress had a Democrat majority for Obama's first 2 years. Even with this majority, he had a hard time selling the ACA to his fellow Democrats, and was unable to sell it to the Republicans. It was the 2010 elections in which America voted a republican majority into the House to give some checks and balances.

[nic34]

Of course the industry is there to make money.

Insurers, meanwhile, are already seeing impressive profits. UnitedHealth, for instance, “had a particularly strong past year, with net income of $5.1 billion (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/snapshots/3147.html), up by 11% from the previous year” and Aetna is similarly beating (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/25/us-aetna-results-idUSBRE89O0W620121025) revenue expectations. A July 2010 report from PricewaterhouseCoopers concluded that the law’s state-based health care exchanges provide private insurers with a lucrative new market in which they stand to gain up to $200 billion in revenue (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/07/14/269187/health-insurers-gain-from-exchanges/) by 2019.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/22/1761011/health-insurers-threaten-to-increase-premiums-even-as-profits-soar/


Our's has been the best healthcare system in the world for a very long time.

But our health insurance industry is the worst in the industrialized world for for providing coverage for it's citizens.


the congress had a Democrat majority for Obama's first 2 years.

Again....? Cigar and I have posted links that totally DEBUNK this BS a dozen times.... I'll defer to him this time if you really need another source for this....:rollseyes:

[Codename Section]

So leaving the insurance industry the way is was is better?

It isn't even MORAL.

It's only immoral to leave it if you have a fix that is better.

We should have gone with Kucinich's plan if we intended to be moral, but we didn't. The ACA will hurt the middle class and help the poor slightly. That's not fair. If we were going for that we might as well have just expanded Medicaid again.

I would cut out spying agencies $$ and put it to national health in a hot minute. I still hate the ACA. I now know people personally who got fucked on it and I'm having to help them out, so no...don't appreciate it.

[Ravens Fan]

Insurers, meanwhile, are already seeing impressive profits. UnitedHealth, for instance, “had a particularly strong past year, with net income of $5.1 billion (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/snapshots/3147.html), up by 11% from the previous year” and Aetna is similarly beating (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/25/us-aetna-results-idUSBRE89O0W620121025) revenue expectations. A July 2010 report from PricewaterhouseCoopers concluded that the law’s state-based health care exchanges provide private insurers with a lucrative new market in which they stand to gain up to $200 billion in revenue (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/07/14/269187/health-insurers-gain-from-exchanges/) by 2019.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/22/1761011/health-insurers-threaten-to-increase-premiums-even-as-profits-soar/

So you agree that the ACA has rewarded certain members of the Insurance Industry?



But our health insurance industry is the worst in the industrialized world for for providing coverage for it's citizens.

Citizens or customers? I am sure that most in the industry do just fine providing coverage to their paying customers. As to the citizenry, how can we expect private companies to just give away their services to those who are unable or unwilling to pay for it? I am all for some kind of solution that actually helps the uninsured who want and need coverage through subsidies or something of that sort. The whole system did not need to be disrupted to handle that issue.



Again....? Cigar and I have posted links that totally DEBUNK this BS a dozen times.... I'll defer to him this time if you really need another source for this....:rollseyes:

What BS do you speak of?? Democrats had majorities in both the Senate and House of Representatives from 2006-2010, hence the whole Speakership of Nancy Pelosi.

[Chris]

So leaving the insurance industry the way is was is better?

It isn't even MORAL.



Who said that? What I said was what we have is government colluding with insurance companies to make it more powerful and them more wealthy. That's what's immoral.

[Cigar]

Who said that? What I said was what we have is government colluding with insurance companies to make it more powerful and them more wealthy. That's what's immoral.

... and Plan "B" is what?

[Mainecoons]

And if you love your deductible, ObamaCare is going to give you an even bigger one to love!


The deductibles are averaging $5,081 (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303330204579246211560398876?mod=WS J_hps_LEFTTopStories) per year for the minimal coverage Bronze plans on the HealthCare.gov website in 34 of the 36 states on the federal exchange. That's 42 percent higher than the $3,589 deductible individual plans in 2013. For a couple or a family, deductibles may be as high as $12,700, The Wall Street Journal reports.


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/premiums-deductibles-obamacare/2013/12/09/id/540772#ixzz2n0FmhX6E

:rofl:

[Cigar]

The Iran Deal Is Bad Because Of Obamacare :smiley_ROFLMAO:
Vice President Cheney said on Monday that the deal the U.S. and its international partners reached with Iran last month over its nuclear program is suspect because of some of the Obama administration’s initial missteps in implementing the president’s new health care law.

“I don’t think that Barack Obama believes that the U.S. is an exceptional nation,” Cheney complained on Fox and Friends. “Nobody cares much in the Middle East anymore what the U.S. thinks because we don’t keep our commitments.”


http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/12/09/3037061/cheney-iran-obamacare/

[Cthulhu]

The furor over "if you like your plan, you can keep it" touches on a deep fear in American life: That your health-care insurance can be taken from you. That fear is so powerful because it happens so often: Almost everyone in the country can lose their health insurance at any time, for all kinds of reasons — and every year, millions do.

If you're one of the 149 million people who get health insurance through your employer, you can lose your plan if you get fired, or if the H.R. department decides to change plans, or if you have to move to a branch in another state.

If you're one of the 51 million people who get Medicaid, you could lose your plan because your income rises and you're no longer eligible or because your state cut its Medicaid budget and made you ineligible. You could lose it because you moved from Minnesota, where childless adults making less than 75 percent of the poverty line are eligible, to Texas, where there's no coverage for childless adults.

If you're one of the 15 million Americans who buys insurance on the individual market, you could lose your plan because your insurer decides to stop offering it or decides to jack up the price by 35 percent. And that's assuming you're one of the lucky people who weren't denied coverage based on preexisting conditions in the first place.

more…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/12/07/obamacares-real-promise-if-you-lose-your-health-care-plan-you-can-get-a-new-one/

How is this nonsense of any comfort to those who lost their plans directly to obamacare implementation and for not other reason?

[Cthulhu]

The ACA doomsayers are the real distraction. ACA is the least we should be doing in regulating the runaway health insurance industry. Their only goal is to make a profit, NOT TAKE CARE OF YOU.

That anyone would defend this is a fool.

Insurance companies make a profit by taking care of you. Otherwise people would find other insurance/lines of work with employer insurance.

Der...

[Mainecoons]

It isn't. It is just another lame attempt by Cigar to divert attention from the ObamaDebacle he shills for.

:grin:

[Cthulhu]

It isn't. It is just another lame attempt by Cigar to divert attention from the ObamaDebacle he shills for.

:grin:

I know that much. But shills must be combated where they go to be shown for what they are - shills. This is merely an effort to show the stupids who peruse the board that not everybody agrees with it, despite what the TV might tell them.

Basically, I am fighting for the stupids that are easily influenced, ships with sails but no rudders nor maps.

[Cigar]

Today's Health Care Irony:

James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr, Age 89, The 39th US President, will be attending The Mandela Memorial who died at 95.
George Herbert Walker Bush, also Age 89, The 41st US President, will not be attending The Mandela Memorial who died at 95, because of Health Issues.

Word has it, ObamaCare had nothing to do with this, but Darrell Issa is sure to get to the bottom if it.

[Cigar]

I know that much. But shills must be combated where they go to be shown for what they are - shills. This is merely an effort to show the stupids who peruse the board that not everybody agrees with it, despite what the TV might tell them.

Basically, I am fighting for the stupids that are easily influenced, ships with sails but no rudders nor maps.

Is that all you have ... name calling ... really ... that's it?

[Cthulhu]

Is that all you have ... name calling ... really ... that's it?

I haven't resorted to name calling Cigar.

But I know better than to try to actually debate you on anything. And I am warning others likewise.

You could always try to address the points given for a change. But that gets in the way of your shilling - and that's fine. Just don't insinuate that I'm doing something wrong just because you're doing something stupid and got called out for it.

I know why you're here, and I know why you're not gone too. Although I admit, I would not mourn your absence.

[Cigar]

I haven't resorted to name calling Cigar.

But I know better than to try to actually debate you on anything. And I am warning others likewise.

You could always try to address the points given for a change. But that gets in the way of your shilling - and that's fine. Just don't insinuate that I'm doing something wrong just because you're doing something stupid and got called out for it.

I know why you're here, and I know why you're not gone too. Although I admit, I would not mourn your absence.

You're breaking my heart :laugh:

[Cthulhu]

You're breaking my heart :laugh:

Thanks for proving the point to succinctly.

[nic34]

Insurance companies make a profit by taking care of you.

Now who's the one that drank the koolaid?

[Cigar]

Now who's the one that drank the koolaid?

When did $30 for a bottle of Aspirin save a life? :laugh:

[Cthulhu]

When did $30 for a bottle of Aspirin save a life? :laugh:

Ask this question to someone with a heart attack. They will pay a million dollars for it if they need it.

[Cthulhu]

Now who's the one that drank the koolaid?

Dude, there is no koolaid involved. But since you bring up koolaid, I'll use it as an object lesson tailored to your caliber.

If the koolaid doesn't meet the satisfactory requirements of tasting good to kids, and the kids gripe enough, mom will likely quit buying it in order to make her kids happier.

Koolaid Inc. has a vested interest in making sure the kids enjoy its taste.

Just like health insurance companies have a vested interest in actually covering the costs they say they will cover - lest they put a bad taste in your mouth and you go else where.

But truth be told. Insurance for medicine is a bad plan altogether in my opinion. It drives up the cost of health care. Stossell did a great piece on it years ago.

[Cigar]

Ask this question to someone with a heart attack. They will pay a million dollars for it if they need it.

To the Doctor, The Health Care Provider or The Pharmacists :laugh:

[nic34]

Just like health insurance companies have a vested interest in actually covering the costs they say they will cover - lest they put a bad taste in your mouth and you go else where.


Insurance companies are a racket. They are not in business to help you get well. They are in the business of insuring healthy people. Period.

Just ask your auto insurer how much they love you when you make a claim.

But thanks for the consensus, insurance is not the way to solve HEALTH care in this country. Welcome to the world that includes Canada, Germany, France, Britian, Australia..... etc, etc, etc....

[Cigar]

Insurance companies are a racket. They are not in business to help you get well. They are in the business of insuring healthy people. Period.

Just ask your auto insurer how much they love you when you make a claim.

But thank for the consensus, insurance is not the way to solve HEALTH care in this country. Welcome to the world that includes Canada, Germany, France, Britian, Australia..... etc, etc, etc....

Just ask the Florida Governor :laugh:

[nic34]

^^^bingo^^^

[Cthulhu]

Insurance companies are a racket. They are not in business to help you get well. They are in the business of insuring healthy people. Period.

Der...I am only trying to let you know they have to do as their contract states, and that means they have to pay what they contracted to - if they don't it is harder to keep up the facade.

Just like Home Owners, Life, auto and any other type of insurance. It is a gamble, that is it.



Just ask your auto insurer how much they love you when you make a claim.

Depends on the company - and how many claims you make.



But thanks for the consensus, insurance is not the way to solve HEALTH care in this country. Welcome to the world that includes Canada, Germany, France, Britian, Australia..... etc, etc, etc....

Trust me, my solution is not the rest of the world's. Paying for it yourself would be though, or via co-op. Insurance doesn't really help anybody long term.

[Codename Section]

Insurance companies are a racket. They are not in business to help you get well. They are in the business of insuring healthy people. Period.

Just ask your auto insurer how much they love you when you make a claim.

But thanks for the consensus, insurance is not the way to solve HEALTH care in this country. Welcome to the world that includes Canada, Germany, France, Britian, Australia..... etc, etc, etc....


The same could be said of Big Pharm--no money in a cure. We still trust them, why?

[nic34]

^^^ they're the top of the list of racketeers^^^^

[lynn]

The Keep it ... if the Insurance Company doesn't allow you to ... then who's problem is that? :laugh:


You have made your point and that is why Obama should have never opened his mouth and utter those words when he knew damn well he has no control over that issue.

[lynn]

... and Plan "B" is what?


Eliminate the insurance companies altogether and have each state have its own population contributing to the pool for health services. We do not need the federal government involved in healthcare as they have shown how irresponsible they are with taking the surpluses each year that we contribute to Medicare and spending it for their own self interest.

[lynn]

The same could be said of Big Pharm--no money in a cure. We still trust them, why?


The best thing a person can do is to avoid taking a list of medications as they age. Big Pharm is only for the profit convincing doctors to pedal their drugs.

[patrickt]

"Obama's real promise...."

And we all know what an Obama Promise is worth. Less than a share of Government Motors.

[zelmo1234]

The ACA promised to insure everyone! there were 48 million that did not have coverage and that was what we needed to fix!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/07/obamacare-leaves-millions-uninsured-heres-who-they-are/

There are still gong to be 30 million uninsured, actually more un insured under Obamacare than the republican plan that would have cost the government nothing.

The ACA promised that if you like your plan you can keep your plan.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/31/obama-officials-in-2010-93-million-americans-will-be-unable-to-keep-their-health-plans-under-obamacare/

This is a lie to about 40% of the USA insured population!

If you like your Doctor! you can keep your doctor!

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/29/health/obamacare-doctors-limited/

So you can't because the insurance companies don't pay enough for the hospitals and doctors to remain profitable, so you get the bottom of the barrel doc and hospitals.

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/survey-doctors-dropping-out-medicare

Even better news, with the 716 billion in cuts to Medicare, the Docs and hospitals are not accepting that any more either?

So under the ACA you will have about 75% of the insurance population pulse about 80% of the un insured population that is forced to use about 60% of the healthcare network? This will drive up waiting periods for treatment and of course further reduce the quality of care.

Next we were promised the ACA would reduce your cost by about 2500 dollars.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/euphoria-of-obamacare-becomes-nightmare-of-higher-premiums-and-deductibles/article/2540444

Nothing could be further from the truth? It will cost you more for your premium, unless you are below the poverty line and are getting expanded Medicaid coverage, which is actually the majority of those that have signed up so far!

So if I was to promise you a healthcare plan that offed you fewer and lower quality doctors and hospitals, and that you could wait longer to see these lesser qualified people and that you would have to pay about 25% more in premiums for this insurance, and about 15 to 20% more in your deductible?

Would you buy it! Because that is the real promise of OBAMACARE