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bladimz
12-09-2013, 06:56 PM
I apologize for a lack of copy involving this link, but it's by the Daily Kos, so any of you who think this source is worthless can immediately dismiss it out-of-hand:

For the rest of you, i think it pretty much covers what is wrong with our system of education.

http://goo.gl/ReXr56

Of course, throwing more money at the problem is not the answer, but giving our college students a break from a burdening debt is only makes sense, gives our graduates a fair start in life. They can become productive americans, almost immediately putting money back into the economy that would have gone toward attempting to pay down such ridiculously huge loans.

A change is needed. No one can dispute that.

Chris
12-09-2013, 07:04 PM
I learned a lot about managing money and paying off my debts by doing it, not by having it forgiven.

Your topic has nothing to do with education.


(And fix your title, will ya!)

iustitia
12-09-2013, 07:31 PM
The best way to educate the people is to abolish the compulsory education system. Also federal involvement in education is unconstitutional.

I'm sympathetic to the view that the military/prison-industrial complex should be torn down. It's sad though that those who advocate more focus on social benefits usually advocate military adventurism for humanitarian causes and decriminalizing real crimes. Worse yet, why replace the military-industrial complex and prison-industrial complex with the welfare-education-industrial complex. This is why I often say that the left is right for the wrong reasons and the right is wrong for the right reasons. Replacing statism with statism isn't a solution to anything, just a transfer of power.

bladimz
12-09-2013, 07:46 PM
I learned a lot about managing money and paying off my debts by doing it, not by having it forgiven.

Your topic has nothing to do with education.


(And fix your title, will ya!)How long ago did you receive your diploma?

(And thanks for the note re the title. It looked pretty stupid, didn't it.)

bladimz
12-09-2013, 07:51 PM
The best way to educate the people is to abolish the compulsory education system. Also federal involvement in education is unconstitutional.

I'm sympathetic to the view that the military/prison-industrial complex should be torn down. It's sad though that those who advocate more focus on social benefits usually advocate military adventurism for humanitarian causes and decriminalizing real crimes. Worse yet, why replace the military-industrial complex and prison-industrial complex with the welfare-education-industrial complex. This is why I often say that the left is right for the wrong reasons and the right is wrong for the right reasons. Replacing statism with statism isn't a solution to anything, just a transfer of power.Feeding tax money into the Military and the Prison industries isn't an investment in the future of our country. Tax dollars spent to educate most certainly is. Every American should be interested in the future of this country. If there is a better alternative to the broken system, it should be posted on every telephone pole in the country.

bladimz
12-09-2013, 07:57 PM
Maybe this would be more acceptable?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/03/pay-it-forward-oregon-tuition-free_n_3543827.html


'Pay It Forward' Plan In Oregon Would Make Tuition Free At State's Public Universities

PORTLAND, Ore. -- On college campuses across the United States, the eternal optimism of youth has been throttled out by a fear of crushing student debt. That's certainly the case in Oregon, where the cost of tuition has soared as public funding for higher education has declined.

But the state Legislature this week approved an idea that might ease the economic dread for future philosophy and art history majors. The concept – called Pay It Forward – calls for students to attend public universities tuition free and loan free. In exchange, students would have 3 percent deducted from their post-graduation paychecks for about a quarter-century. The money would go into a fund to pay for future students.

The bill, which passed unanimously and is expected to be signed this month by Gov. John Kitzhaber, directs the state's Higher Education Coordination Commission to develop a Pay It Forward pilot project for consideration by the 2015 Legislature. One question that must be resolved is how to fund the program's start-up costs, estimated at $9 billion, since the initial students who attend tuition-free would be years away from entering the labor force.

Mainecoons
12-09-2013, 07:57 PM
Gosh, we already have a very large percentage of college graduates looking for work. For sure, continuing to suck the life out of the private sector to support more government failure isn't going to find jobs for any of them. Government education is as broken as ObamaCare, Medicare, "investment" in alternative energies, etc., etc., just to name a couple of government failures.

We spend an astronomical amount of money on education. What have government schools and unionized "teachers" given us? I suggest you look at the comparative statistics for U.S. students versus those from other parts of the developed world and learn something from it.

When you have the creators of some of the most successful companies in the country telling you they would be hard put to succeed in the current environment of bloated government, it is time you started listening.

iustitia
12-09-2013, 08:01 PM
I'm sure war hawks and authoritarians would argue that imperialism and police statism is an investment in peace and security.

Regardless, I reject the thesis that centralized authority in education is the key to anything. You say it's an investment in the future, I say it's an investment in the dumbing down of a nation. Your position is faulty because it presupposes that those who don't believe in statism don't care about the future of the country. It is precisely because I care that I don't want to rob my countrymen of their largesse to fund human farming.

Chris
12-09-2013, 08:07 PM
Feeding tax money into the Military and the Prison industries isn't an investment in the future of our country. Tax dollars spent to educate most certainly is. Every American should be interested in the future of this country. If there is a better alternative to the broken system, it should be posted on every telephone pole in the country.

We shouldn't do those things either.

Edication is important, but why in the hands of the federal government, which is not empowered to regulate it?

Adelaide
12-10-2013, 05:14 AM
Even if tuition were free for students, students would still have to cover their cost of living through work - so I don't think it would be sending as strong a message about responsibility as some would suggest. A lot of students relocate for university which means paying for rent, utilities, food, transportation, internet, phone, etc..

Anyways, the problem with the education system prior to post-secondary would seem to start with the parents. It can't be a coincidence that most under performing schools in the US are either in or have majority of students from low-income families. These areas often also have more crime. It seems like the system that is broken is society, not the schools, and that is why throwing more money into the education system isn't going to make much of a difference.

Peter1469
12-10-2013, 06:05 AM
Even if tuition were free for students, students would still have to cover their cost of living through work - so I don't think it would be sending as strong a message about responsibility as some would suggest. A lot of students relocate for university which means paying for rent, utilities, food, transportation, internet, phone, etc..

Anyways, the problem with the education system prior to post-secondary would seem to start with the parents. It can't be a coincidence that most under performing schools in the US are either in or have majority of students from low-income families. These areas often also have more crime. It seems like the system that is broken is society, not the schools, and that is why throwing more money into the education system isn't going to make much of a difference.

Exactly.

bladimz
12-11-2013, 05:43 PM
Throwing more money at the problem isn't the issue here. The concern is more the huge debt that each student in higher education is accruing. This, of course, impacts the opportunity (or lack of) for kids to attend universities... kids that have intellectually earned the right to attend. Monster loans and the inability for many to pay them back is a huge strike against the kids who might otherwise benefit very well from higher education. It's pretty fair to expect more from college grads; they are more likely to be responsible for new business start-ups, job creation and innovation than their high school counterparts.

It's true that these students will still be personally responsible for their living costs, which isn't cheap in and of itself, so it's not like they're floating through college on gossamer wings.

The bottom line is: do you want higher education available only to those with the deep pockets to cover the costs? (more inequity??); shouldn't everyone get a shot. Or does poor = stupid.

iustitia
12-11-2013, 07:49 PM
Just throwing this uncomfortable fact out there again, not that anybody wants to acknowledge things that reduce the value of their platforms- the public school system was intentionally designed to dumb down an already educated and literate country.

If we're going to be intellectually honest about our arguments over petty differences in public policy, we need to first come to terms with the fact that the compulsory education system of the Prussians was designed to make an obedient society for state and industry to control. Then the next step should be determining if that's really the kind of system we should even want in this country. Then the question of constitutionality should come into play. THEN should be the question of money, if one could honestly get to that point of logical progression.

Chris
12-11-2013, 08:27 PM
Just throwing this uncomfortable fact out there again, not that anybody wants to acknowledge things that reduce the value of their platforms- the public school system was intentionally designed to dumb down an already educated and literate country.

If we're going to be intellectually honest about our arguments over petty differences in public policy, we need to first come to terms with the fact that the compulsory education system of the Prussians was designed to make an obedient society for state and industry to control. Then the next step should be determining if that's really the kind of system we should even want in this country. Then the question of constitutionality should come into play. THEN should be the question of money, if one could honestly get to that point of logical progression.


Agree, acknowledged.

Germanicus
12-13-2013, 02:10 PM
I do not favour debt relief for students.

The Sage of Main Street
12-13-2013, 03:36 PM
the public school system was intentionally designed to dumb down an already educated and literate country.

If we're going to be intellectually honest about our arguments over petty differences in public policy, we need to first come to terms with the fact that the compulsory education system of the Prussians was designed to make an obedient society for state and industry to control. Then the next step should be determining if that's really the kind of system we should even want in this country. Then the question of constitutionality should come into play. THEN should be the question of money, if one could honestly get to that point of logical progression.

People really have to be dumbed down to believe that a nanny overlord on our self-determined laws is necessary. The fact that we have to ask whether something is Constitutional instead of just asking if it is good for the country proves that the Constitution is not good for the country.

Those who complain about dumbed-down education are themselves the product of dumbed-down education. Their ungrammatical and illogical complaints show that. They follow suggestions from PhDs who have been successful in a failed system, proving that these "experts" shouldn't be listened to either.