PDA

View Full Version : Why Americans are so angry



Max Rockatansky
12-12-2013, 10:20 AM
Interesting viewpoint from "The Economist". "Outside the box", so to speak.



http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21591180-americas-political-divisions-have-deeper-social-consequences-why-americans-are-so-angry

BELIEVE the polls, and Americans have decided that they live in Italy: hobbled by dishonest leaders and such endemic corruption that only fools would trust strangers. Grim findings have been coming thick and fast.

Grim findings have been coming thick and fast. Most Americans no longer see President Barack Obama as honest. Half think that he “knowingly lied” to pass his Obamacare health law. Fewer than one in five trust the government in Washington to do what is right all or most of the time. Confidence in Congress has fallen to record lows: in America, as in Italy and Greece, just one in ten voters expresses trust or confidence in the national parliament. Frankly straining credulity, a mammoth, 107-country poll by Transparency International, a corruption monitor, this summer found Americans more likely than Italians to say that they feel that the police, business and the media are all “corrupt or extremely corrupt”.


Americans are also turning on one another. Since 1972 the Chicago-based General Social Survey (GSS) has been asking whether most people can be trusted, or whether “you can’t be too careful” in daily life. Four decades ago Americans were evenly split. Now almost two-thirds say others cannot be trusted, a record high. Recently the Associated Press sought to add context to the GSS data, asking Americans if they placed much trust in folk they met away from home, or in the workers who swiped their payment cards when out shopping. Most said no.


The press is full of headlines about an American crisis of trust. That is too hasty. Lexington spent years in Asia and Europe reporting from countries cursed by official corruption and low trust among strangers. America is not that sort of society.


In genuinely low-trust societies, suspicion blights lives and hobbles economies. In China, even successful urbanites distrust business and government, worrying constantly about the food they buy and the air they breathe. Yet those same successful Chinese have little confidence in the poor. Chinese friends used to urge Lexington never to play Good Samaritan at an accident scene, insisting that anyone rich who stopped to help would be blamed for the victim’s injuries and pursued for compensation.


It is true that America faces grave problems. Congress has had an unproductive year: shutting down the federal government was a notable low point. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) confessed to subjecting Tea Party and other political groups to special scrutiny, enraging conservatives. But to put such antics in perspective, this year Italy’s richest media tycoon and its ex-prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, was convicted of tax fraud, of paying an underage prostitute and abuse of power.


In genuinely low-trust countries, tax evasion comes naturally: when those at the top cheat, only dupes follow the rules. But America shows few signs of surging tax evasion. The most recent IRS “tax gap” estimates found no significant decline in the proportion of taxes paid voluntarily and on time. Nor are Americans at soaring risk of being ripped off in daily life. The latest survey of consumer fraud by the Federal Trade Commission found a fall in the prevalence of scams. Payment-card fraud is rising, but only in proportion with overall card use, says FICO, a fraud-management firm: crooked shop staff affect “percents of a percent” of transactions.


None of this justifies complacency. Americans are dangerously angry. But when they voice Italian levels of distrust for authorities, or sweepingly accuse fellow-citizens of being crooks, they are not describing reality. Here is a theory: Americans are instead revealing how deeply they are divided. Dig into headlines about “half of all Americans” thinking this or that, and large partisan or demographic divides lurk. Take that poll finding that half of voters think Mr Obama lied to pass his health plan. Look more closely, and eight in ten Republicans think he fibbed, but fewer than one in four Democrats. As for headline GSS numbers about overall trust between Americans, they conceal a big race gap: for decades around 80% of black Americans have consistently said that most people cannot be trusted. The bulk of the recent decline involves whites becoming less trusting, says Tom Smith, the survey’s director. Explaining that decline is a complex business, but over the same period society has become more impersonal and more economically unequal. Robert Putnam of Harvard University, a pioneer in the study of “social capital”, argues that Americans’ trust in one another has been declining steadily since the “golden” aftermath of the second world war, when civic activity and a sense of community among neighbours were at a peak.


Trust in institutions has risen and fallen over that same post-war period in line with external events, plunging after the Watergate scandal, for instance, and during recessions. Yet something new seems to be happening. Anti-government cynicism is feeding on gulfs in society.


Conservatives think Democrats buy votes with welfare
Consider the crisis around Obamacare. Forget fussing about its useless website: websites can be fixed. The president’s headache is that voters see his plan as welfare for the poor rather than a better way of delivering medical care. That is exposing ugly divisions. Most starkly, a majority of whites think the law will make life worse for them, a National Journal poll found, while most non-whites believe it will help people like them. That in turn tallies with a big change over the previous 15 years: a collapse in support among conservatives for government safety nets.


This is America’s real problem with trust. The country faces a crisis of mutual resentment, masquerading as a general collapse in national morale. Sharply-delineated voter blocs are alarmingly willing to believe that rival groups are up to no good or taking more than their fair share. Polls describing America as a hell-hole of corruption are not to be taken literally. They are a warning. America is not a low-trust society. But it risks becoming one.

Codename Section
12-12-2013, 10:40 AM
It's untrustworthy. That goes without saying. My generation sees this.

Ravi
12-12-2013, 10:47 AM
Odd. I saw a story yesterday that Obama's favorability is back up to pre-rollout levels.

Codename Section
12-12-2013, 10:48 AM
Odd. I saw a story yesterday that Obama's favorability is back up to pre-rollout levels.

Link it or it didn't happen. :D

nathanbforrest45
12-12-2013, 10:51 AM
We are angry due to a lack of fibre in our diet

Codename Section
12-12-2013, 10:52 AM
Recent

http://www.businessinsider.com/quinnipiac-poll-obama-approval-economy-favorability-2013-11


President Barack Obama's approval ratings have dipped to a record low in another poll — this time from Quinnipiac University (http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1975).According to the poll, respondents disapprove of Obama's job performance by a 54-39 margin. His approval rating of 39% is worse than his previous all-time low of 41% in the Quinnipiac survey, which came after a bruising fight over raising the nation's debt ceiling in 2011.
And for the first time ever, most people (52%) say that Obama is not honest and trustworthy. Only 44% say that he is honest and trustworthy.
The only individual issue on which Obama scores positive marks is for his handling of terrorism. Everything else is at least 15 points underwater:

38 - 53 percent on foreign policy;
35 - 53 percent on immigration;
32 - 62 percent on the federal budget;
36 - 60 percent on health care;
38 - 59 percent on the economy.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/12/poll-obama-approval-ratings-drop-americans-say-hes-not-trustworthy/

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/11/like-obama-obamacare-starts-collapsing-in-gallup-poll-40-approve-55-disapprove.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/obama-favorability-declines-with-investors-poll-D~FqmYO9SJe2TDkb68xHDQ.html

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/11/15/245281069/polls-reveal-season-of-record-breaking-voter-anger

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/11/13/why-president-obamas-sinking-job-approval-numbers-matter-a-lot/

Chris
12-12-2013, 10:52 AM
Consider the crisis around Obamacare. Forget fussing about its useless website: websites can be fixed. The president’s headache is that voters see his plan as welfare for the poor rather than a better way of delivering medical care. That is exposing ugly divisions. Most starkly, a majority of whites think the law will make life worse for them, a National Journal poll found, while most non-whites believe it will help people like them. That in turn tallies with a big change over the previous 15 years: a collapse in support among conservatives for government safety nets.


I actually see the ACA as welfare for the rich, specifically the insurance companies and the medical industry. Yes, the immediate affect--what Bastiat would call what is seen, is the benefit to the poor. But the poor are not going to save and invest and increase their lot one bit, but spend it on costly, nay, more costly insurance and medical care. The insurance and medical industry benefits. And we pay for it. Just more crony corporatism. Best government money can buy.

Naturally, if you can't trust the ruling class, the ruled classes will distrust each other. Keep us divided over which statist policies are better, the Dem's or the Rep's, while they sit on central planning committees coming to agreements on how much more of our wealth to redistribute.

Cigar
12-12-2013, 10:55 AM
Some are angry because of Change, change they don't like or can't adapt to.

I feel sorry for them, because adaptation comes whether you change or not.

No one stops progress, they can only slow it.

Ravi
12-12-2013, 10:58 AM
Link it or it didn't happen. :D

http://www.people-press.org/2013/12/10/obama-job-rating-regains-some-ground-but-2013-has-taken-a-toll/

Does this make you angry? I only know of one angry American, personally, and he's been angry since Obama got elected.

Codename Section
12-12-2013, 10:59 AM
Some are angry because of Change, change they don't like or can't adapt to.

I feel sorry for them, because adaptation comes whether you change or not.

No one stops progress, they can only slow it.


Not all change is good. Not all progress is moral.

The ACA is not national health. It's not even a step towards it now that it's proven they don't know how to protect the middle class.

Max Rockatansky
12-12-2013, 11:01 AM
Recent

http://www.businessinsider.com/quinnipiac-poll-obama-approval-economy-favorability-2013-11



http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/12/poll-obama-approval-ratings-drop-americans-say-hes-not-trustworthy/

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/11/like-obama-obamacare-starts-collapsing-in-gallup-poll-40-approve-55-disapprove.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/obama-favorability-declines-with-investors-poll-D~FqmYO9SJe2TDkb68xHDQ.html

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/11/15/245281069/polls-reveal-season-of-record-breaking-voter-anger

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/11/13/why-president-obamas-sinking-job-approval-numbers-matter-a-lot/

Agreed. I don't see his poll numbers going up very much very soon. The Democrats need to get their shit together quickly or they will be steamrolled come next November.

Codename Section
12-12-2013, 11:02 AM
http://www.people-press.org/2013/12/10/obama-job-rating-regains-some-ground-but-2013-has-taken-a-toll/

Does this make you angry? I only know of one angry American, personally, and he's been angry since Obama got elected.

Why would it make me angry? Don't apply your feelings to others Ravi.


The national survey by the Pew Research Center and USA TODAY (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/12/10/usa-today-pew-poll-battle-for-obamas-second-term/3958011/), conducted Dec. 3-8 among 2,001 adults, finds that despite the recent uptick in Obama’s job rating, his standing with the public is much worse today than it was at the start of the year. The percentage viewing Obama as “not trustworthy” has risen 15 points since January – from 30% to 45%. There has been a comparable increase in the share saying he is “not able to get things done” (from 37% to 51%).

This doesn't contradict the OP, so I'm not sure what you're saying.


I'm only angry because I see the direction of what I will have to pay for as I age if you guys (republicans and democrats) are allowed to continue spending like teenagers with a credit card.

We can't afford all these programs and by that I mean DOD, too. We can't continue to mismanage them, either.

Codename Section
12-12-2013, 11:02 AM
Agreed. I don't see his poll numbers going up very much very soon. The Democrats need to get their shit together quickly or they will be steamrolled come next November.

By who? Republicans?

This ship is going down. I give it ten years tops.

Max Rockatansky
12-12-2013, 11:03 AM
http://www.people-press.org/2013/12/10/obama-job-rating-regains-some-ground-but-2013-has-taken-a-toll/

Does this make you angry? I only know of one angry American, personally, and he's been angry since Obama got elected.

He's still taking a beating.


The national survey by the Pew Research Center and USA TODAY (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/12/10/usa-today-pew-poll-battle-for-obamas-second-term/3958011/), conducted Dec. 3-8 among 2,001 adults, finds that despite the recent uptick in Obama’s job rating, his standing with the public is much worse today than it was at the start of the year. The percentage viewing Obama as “not trustworthy” has risen 15 points since January – from 30% to 45%. There has been a comparable increase in the share saying he is “not able to get things done” (from 37% to 51%).

Max Rockatansky
12-12-2013, 11:05 AM
By who? Republicans?

This ship is going down. I give it ten years tops.

Yes. What other major party is there?

Ship? You mean our government or the economy? Doubtful. This ship isn't unsinkable, but it's certainly robust enough to get through tough times. We've been through a lot worse in the last 100 years. Much worse back in the 1860s. This is just a rough patch.

zelmo1234
12-12-2013, 11:10 AM
Odd. I saw a story yesterday that Obama's favorability is back up to pre-rollout levels.

What?

here is the new poll that came out yesterday?

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1987

It dropped 2% more to 39% and over 60% of the people do not trust him or believe that he tells the truth!

Chris
12-12-2013, 11:28 AM
http://www.people-press.org/2013/12/10/obama-job-rating-regains-some-ground-but-2013-has-taken-a-toll/

Does this make you angry? I only know of one angry American, personally, and he's been angry since Obama got elected.


Average that in with others and you still have Obama taking a nose-dive:

http://i.snag.gy/qTQGG.jpg

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html


Make you angry? lol

Mainecoons
12-12-2013, 11:28 AM
She probably saw it in the Daily Kos.

:rofl:

McCool
12-12-2013, 01:54 PM
We are angry due to a lack of fibre in our dietI'm angry because Christmas ends in 14 days.

patrickt
12-12-2013, 04:50 PM
The amazing number is the under 40% who think President Barack "you can keep you insurance" Obama tells the truth or has told the truth, maybe, once.

donttread
12-12-2013, 05:29 PM
How on earth could anyone trust any part of a federal government that has produced the last 14 years? TO trust them would be insane




Interesting viewpoint from "The Economist". "Outside the box", so to speak.



http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21591180-americas-political-divisions-have-deeper-social-consequences-why-americans-are-so-angry

Green Arrow
12-12-2013, 07:34 PM
I find that anger is a mostly useless emotion. All it really does is encourage you to hate things or people that you cannot control, rather than finding a solution to the problem that makes you angry.

Which isn't to say that I never get angry...I do, more often than I'd like. But I've found that if I redirect that angry energy into passion, I get stuff done.

Max Rockatansky
12-12-2013, 09:07 PM
I find that anger is a mostly useless emotion. All it really does is encourage you to hate things or people that you cannot control, rather than finding a solution to the problem that makes you angry.

Which isn't to say that I never get angry...I do, more often than I'd like. But I've found that if I redirect that angry energy into passion, I get stuff done.

Sometimes anger can be motivator in a good way, but too much and it can be blinding. People who hate are blind, IMO. "Seeing red" is another way of saying they are blinded by excessive anger or hate.

donttread
12-15-2013, 11:41 AM
Might we be angry because the Donkaphant taxes us but does not represent us anymore? Because the "two major parties" collectively spit on the BOR's? Because they don't even bother to cover up their influence for sale campaign funds? Because despite the world's greatest revenue they not only can't balance a budget but in fact borrow money to may the interest on existing debt? The spying maybe? Unjust imperialistic wars? Hell they aren't even good imperialist as the wars cost us money. Oh wait the wars did make Haliburton a ton of money so its all good.

jillian
12-15-2013, 11:43 AM
It's untrustworthy. That goes without saying. My generation sees this.

it's also party that you've been handed a constant barrage of anti government nonsense from people who make their living off of the government.

Chris
12-15-2013, 11:44 AM
it's also party that you've been handed a constant barrage of anti government nonsense from people who make their living off of the government.



Could you provide some examples?

Codename Section
12-15-2013, 11:53 AM
it's also party that you've been handed a constant barrage of anti government nonsense from people who make their living off of the government.

They only make their living off the government because it has proven it's for sale to the highest bidder.

Chris
12-15-2013, 11:59 AM
They only make their living off the government because it has proven it's for sale to the highest bidder.

Who are "they"?

jillian
12-15-2013, 12:03 PM
They only make their living off the government because it has proven it's for sale to the highest bidder.

no. it's because they took lifetime jobs IN government.

and then bring their little boy into the family business.

Codename Section
12-15-2013, 12:06 PM
no. it's because they took lifetime jobs IN government.

and then bring their little boy into the family business.

Ha, you're talking about Ron Paul then who spent a lifetime as a practicing physician before retiring and going into politics where he had a consistent voting record.

Yeh, I'm not going to listen to you on that one because you don't really follow him at all.

Chris
12-15-2013, 12:11 PM
Ron Paul is not "anti government". He's at best anti-big-government.

bobgnote
12-15-2013, 12:35 PM
Interesting viewpoint from "The Economist". "Outside the box", so to speak.

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21591180-americas-political-divisions-have-deeper-social-consequences-why-americans-are-so-angry

True, that.

When Americans smarten up, all at once, we can have a new constitution. Until then, hey, be pissed, or wait, for change, how you do that.

Green Arrow
12-15-2013, 01:44 PM
it's also party that you've been handed a constant barrage of anti government nonsense from people who make their living off of the government.

I haven't heard anything anti-government from anybody in government. Matter of fact, the only people I hear anything anti-government from are anarchists. No Republicans, no Democrats. Not even most libertarians. Just anarchists.