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sky dancer
12-15-2013, 01:17 PM
'Kidnapped For Christ,' Planned Documentary, Aims To Expose 'Ex-Gay' Experiences In Christian Reform Schools



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/kidnapped-for-christ_n_4427968.html


Wow, this is a story of gay kids experiencing extraordinary rendition to schools outside the US for forced anti-gay "therapy".

The woman who directed the film, Kate Logan, says she lost her Christian faith over what she saw filming the documentary.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/14/director-to-raw-story-expose-on-brutal-christian-school-cost-me-my-faith/

roadmaster
12-16-2013, 01:10 AM
http://youtu.be/0SRJSBzs1qc


I think let the person decide.

Max Rockatansky
12-16-2013, 08:08 AM
The "treatment" was called "Culture Shock Therapy" by the administrators. So their actual methods involved jarring kids enough that they were more malleable emotionally and mentally. That was Step One, and it involved strenuous and intense physical labor and exercise, constant repetition of religious and program-written texts, and severe punishments for students who "acted out." Those punishments could be hours of manual labor, exercising, or actual physical beatings, which they called "swats."

Resembles boot camp...except for the beatings. I wonder if those are shone?

Are children slaves? While it's clear many Americans may disagree on the effectiveness of gay therapy (it doesn't work IMO), are we saying parents don't have the right to send their kids to whatever school they choose? Military school? Band camp? Summer Camp?

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 09:31 AM
Resembles boot camp...except for the beatings. I wonder if those are shone?

Are children slaves? While it's clear many Americans may disagree on the effectiveness of gay therapy (it doesn't work IMO), are we saying parents don't have the right to send their kids to whatever school they choose? Military school? Band camp? Summer Camp?
Parent's don't have the right to abuse their children.

Max Rockatansky
12-16-2013, 09:37 AM
Parent's don't have the right to abuse their children.

Agreed, but you'd have to make a case that such a school is abuse. Keep in mind that every parent who sends a child to military school, band camp or summer camp would be viewed under the same criteria which you apply to the gay therapy school.

Alyosha
12-16-2013, 09:39 AM
This is no worse than Scientology and that happens in the US. Not making light of it, but I think when we attach "Christian" to something there tends to be a runaway discussion of "some" being applied to "all".

These camps are fuckery, but even the title of this is also fuckery. "Kidnapped for Christ?" Not at all. He died 2000 years ago. I've never once been kidnapped by him and I attended Catholic schools.

The makers of the documentary are jabbing not just at these camps but at a religion of 1 billion people, most of whom are nice people.

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 09:44 AM
This is no worse than Scientology and that happens in the US. Not making light of it, but I think when we attach "Christian" to something there tends to be a runaway discussion of "some" being applied to "all".

These camps are fuckery, but even the title of this is also fuckery. "Kidnapped for Christ?" Not at all. He died 2000 years ago. I've never once been kidnapped by him and I attended Catholic schools.

The makers of the documentary are jabbing not just at these camps but at a religion of 1 billion people, most of whom are nice people.

The maker of the documentary, herself a devout Christian, named it because of how disillusioned she was after filming it. She didn't expect to find what she found.

Kidnapped for Christ is the name of the documentary. I didn't name it myself. These kids were shipped off to the Dominican Republic because they allow this brutal treatment that isn't legal in the US.

Kate Logan, the maker of the film is an evangelical Christian, and was not expecting to see abuse at the school.

Alyosha
12-16-2013, 09:47 AM
The maker of the documentary, herself a devout Christian, named it because of how disillusioned she was after filming it. She didn't expect to find what she found.

Kidnapped for Christ is the name of the documentary. I didn't name it myself.

I didn't say you did. I said that she did. I don't think it's helpful and it is inflammatory. I've worked with gay teen suicide centers and I realize that religious disappointment has a lot to do with their self-opinion, and I think that's horrible since it should be a refuge not a nightmare.

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 09:51 AM
I didn't say you did. I said that she did. I don't think it's helpful and it is inflammatory. I've worked with gay teen suicide centers and I realize that religious disappointment has a lot to do with their self-opinion, and I think that's horrible since it should be a refuge not a nightmare.

I praise this woman's work. She herself, is a Christian. Kidnapping children and doing extraordinary rendition on them in order to torture them is not following the teachings of Christ.

I'm sorry you can't see that.

Alyosha
12-16-2013, 10:00 AM
I praise this woman's work. She herself, is a Christian. Kidnapping children and doing extraordinary rendition on them in order to torture them is not following the teachings of Christ.

I'm sorry you can't see that.

I'm sorry you can't see what I'm saying.

If you think I agree with abusing kids or sending them away from their parents for any reason then you need to reread what I'm saying. All I said was that it is inflammatory to say they were kidnapped by Christ.

They were shoved aside by their parents to a religious reeducation camp.

Are kids at Fork Union, kidnapped by the military? No.


The title could have been better.

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 10:02 AM
I'm sorry you can't see what I'm saying.

If you think I agree with abusing kids or sending them away from their parents for any reason then you need to reread what I'm saying. All I said was that it is inflammatory to say they were kidnapped by Christ.

They were shoved aside by their parents to a religious reeducation camp.

Are kids at Fork Union, kidnapped by the military? No.


The title could have been better.

Well, it does happen to be a Christian school. It's not a secular school. I didn't make the title, I just reported it. It is significant to the woman who made the documentary BECAUSE she is an evangelical Christian.

I would guess she wanted to wake people up, ESPECIALLY Christians, since that is her faith.

As a former Catholic, I've long been aware of the wrongs committed by the institutional RCC. Here are some examples:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiDFKCpLviw8dHJnczI2NG1TdkpIMnQxLTZpVFZxM VE&hl=en_US#gid=0

I'm quite concerned about religious abuse in general. It happens in every religion, including Buddhism.

Alyosha
12-16-2013, 10:05 AM
Well, it does happen to be a Christian school. It's not a secular school. I didn't make the title, I just reported it. It is significant to the woman who made the documentary BECAUSE she is an evangelical Christian.

I would guess she wanted to wake people up, ESPECIALLY Christians, since that is her faith.

No, it's not my faith. My faith doesn't kidnap kids.

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 10:22 AM
No, it's not my faith. My faith doesn't kidnap kids.
If you're a Christian, then you must accept that this IS a Christian school. Denying that makes it seem as though you aren't willing to accept that some wrong happens in the world in the name of Christ.

Does it make any difference to you that I found this story in Gay News or that some of the kids sent to the school were gay?

What's horrifying to me is that American parents would send their kids someplace where the schools are not monitored for abuse.

Alyosha
12-16-2013, 10:30 AM
If you're a Christian, then you must accept that this IS a Christian school. Denying that makes it seem as though you aren't willing to accept that some wrong happens in the world in the name of Christ.


No, the argument I am making is more nuanced and honest than that. Christ kidnapped no one. A bunch of parents send their kids out of the country because they have issues with their interpretation of a document.

Individuals run the school. I have no part in it, wouldn't do something like that, etc. Yet, I am a Catholic and a "Christian".

I don't believe in collective punishment or collective achievement. For example, that lesbian waitress thread became about gays because she alerted and got GLAAD involved. Is it GLAADs fault she was a bad representative?

No.



Does it make any difference to you that I found this story in Gay News or that some of the kids sent to the school were gay?

It makes no difference to me if the kids were gay, unruly, black, white, ... I believe boarding schools are cruel, so of course I'll feel its cruel to put kids in an environment that is scary and hurtful.

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 10:36 AM
No, the argument I am making is more nuanced and honest than that. Christ kidnapped no one. A bunch of parents send their kids out of the country because they have issues with their interpretation of a document.

Individuals run the school. I have no part in it, wouldn't do something like that, etc. Yet, I am a Catholic and a "Christian".

I don't believe in collective punishment or collective achievement. For example, that lesbian waitress thread became about gays because she alerted and got GLAAD involved. Is it GLAADs fault she was a bad representative?

No.



It makes no difference to me if the kids were gay, unruly, black, white, ... I believe boarding schools are cruel, so of course I'll feel its cruel to put kids in an environment that is scary and hurtful.

I agree with you that boarding schools are cruel, and these are some of the worst. I think it's wrong to put your head in the sand when the faith you belong to does something very wrong.

I feel the same anguish hearing about Buddhists in Sri Lanka, Burma and other Asian countries being at war with people of a different faith. It's wrong. Buddhism teaches first and foremost to do no harm, to not kill. So while I may be able to comfort myself by saying these Buddhists are not acting in accordance with the Buddha's teachings, nonetheless they are Buddhists and they are doing great wrong.

I would think a good Catholic would be very concerned about some of the harm that has been done by nuns and priests in the RCC.

Alyosha
12-16-2013, 10:40 AM
I agree with you that boarding schools are cruel, and these are some of the worst. I think it's wrong to put your head in the sand when the faith you belong to does something very wrong.

My faith didn't do anything wrong. Individuals, probably no more than 100 out of 1 billion, did something pretty fucking stupid because they interpret the Bible, mostly the Old Testament, in a mean way.

My faith is 1 billion people of different interpretations.




I feel the same anguish hearing about Buddhists in Sri Lanka, Burma and other Asian countries being at war with people of a different faith. It's wrong. Buddhism teaches first and foremost to do no harm, to not kill. So while I may be able to comfort myself by saying these Buddhists are not acting in accordance with the Buddha's teachings, nonetheless they are Buddhists and they are doing great wrong.

I would think a good Catholic would be very concerned about some of the harm that has been done by nuns and priests in the RCC.

More kids have been molested in public schools. Should public schools be shut down or teachers concerned about the harm done by teachers?

No.

I am responsible for me. You are responsible for you.

Those parents should be beaten with rubber hoses for doing that to their kids, as well as, the school teachers. No one else.

Codename Section
12-16-2013, 04:02 PM
I agree that no "group" should be blamed for the actions of individuals and I also agree that it is bullshit to send your kids away to ungay them.

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 05:35 PM
My faith didn't do anything wrong. Individuals, probably no more than 100 out of 1 billion, did something pretty fucking stupid because they interpret the Bible, mostly the Old Testament, in a mean way.

My faith is 1 billion people of different interpretations.



More kids have been molested in public schools. Should public schools be shut down or teachers concerned about the harm done by teachers?

No.

I am responsible for me. You are responsible for you.

Those parents should be beaten with rubber hoses for doing that to their kids, as well as, the school teachers. No one else.

No one is indicting Christianity in general, nor YOUR FAITH in particular. Nonetheless, some institutional forms of Christianity, such as these camps, behave badly.

Shame on you for dismissing priest pedophilia by saying more kids are molested in public schools. Children are traumatized TWICE by the perpetrators and by the institution that systematically protects perpetrators.

You're making Catholics look bad for not acknowledging the harm that has gone on by the RCC protection of priest pedophiles for so many decades. JMO, of course.

Alyosha
12-16-2013, 06:07 PM
No one is indicting Christianity in general, nor YOUR FAITH in particular. Nonetheless, some institutional forms of Christianity, such as these camps, behave badly.

No, that is not a form of Christianity. That is a group of sickos who grasp at straws to find reasons to hate. When you can show me where it says in the Gospels this is acceptable I'll concede its a form of Christianity.




Shame on you for dismissing priest pedophilia by saying more kids are molested in public schools. Children are traumatized TWICE by the perpetrators and by the institution that systematically protects perpetrators.


Nope. Not playing that game. Never dismissed it. I made an analogy. And the public schools DO have more incidents of pedophilia in them, and I wouldn't shut down public schools because of a few pedophiles nor would I blame the schools for not shutting down because of pedophiles.

Individuals should receive blame for what they individually did.



You're making Catholics look bad for not acknowledging the harm that has gone on by the RCC protection of priest pedophiles for so many decades. JMO, of course.

JMO, you're angry and being mean. You've yet to hear my argument which is that individual people should accept blame for individual actions and that innocent people should not be punished along with them.

Max Rockatansky
12-16-2013, 07:32 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/kidnapped-for-christ_n_4427968.html


Wow, this is a story of gay kids experiencing extraordinary rendition to schools outside the US for forced anti-gay "therapy".

I've been looking for more reports on the movies, specifically for clear depictions of what was considered "abuse" since that can cover a large range of concepts. When I was in school from 1962 to 1974, it wasn't unusual in some schools (I went to 11 different elementary and high schools) for corporal punishment to be used. I'd been told to bend over a desk or to grab my ankles more than a few times and then swatted 3-5 times as a reminder of what I'd done wrong. Was that abuse? I'm sure some would consider being sent to my room without my dinner except for a few pieces of bread and a glass of water to be extreme abuse. I do not. Harsh, yes, but abuse? No.

Also, it's wrong to say this is an anti-gay therapy school. Not all the kids there are gay. In fact, for a supposed "anti-gay" school the description of Level Zero and Level One seems contrary to idea. The school seems to adhere to "old school" disciplanary principles not longer found in a country where "There are no winners or losers. Everybody is a winner! Gold stars for everyone! Yayyy!"

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 08:27 PM
I've been looking for more reports on the movies, specifically for clear depictions of what was considered "abuse" since that can cover a large range of concepts. When I was in school from 1962 to 1974, it wasn't unusual in some schools (I went to 11 different elementary and high schools) for corporal punishment to be used. I'd been told to bend over a desk or to grab my ankles more than a few times and then swatted 3-5 times as a reminder of what I'd done wrong. Was that abuse? I'm sure some would consider being sent to my room without my dinner except for a few pieces of bread and a glass of water to be extreme abuse. I do not. Harsh, yes, but abuse? No.

Also, it's wrong to say this is an anti-gay therapy school. Not all the kids there are gay. In fact, for a supposed "anti-gay" school the description of Level Zero and Level One seems contrary to idea. The school seems to adhere to "old school" disciplanary principles not longer found in a country where "There are no winners or losers. Everybody is a winner! Gold stars for everyone! Yayyy!"

I consider corporal punishment abuse. Gay kids are not the ONLY kids abused at this camp, but they are the ones that are most picked on by the staff.

Just because child abuse was common in your childhood doesn't make it right. There is something really sick about sending American kids to a school that would not be allowed to be open in the US.

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 08:29 PM
No, that is not a form of Christianity. That is a group of sickos who grasp at straws to find reasons to hate. When you can show me where it says in the Gospels this is acceptable I'll concede its a form of Christianity.



Nope. Not playing that game. Never dismissed it. I made an analogy. And the public schools DO have more incidents of pedophilia in them, and I wouldn't shut down public schools because of a few pedophiles nor would I blame the schools for not shutting down because of pedophiles.

Individuals should receive blame for what they individually did.



JMO, you're angry and being mean. You've yet to hear my argument which is that individual people should accept blame for individual actions and that innocent people should not be punished along with them.

I see. Now you resort to personal attack because you cannot accept my view. Certainly individual people should accept blame, but you seem to forget that the priests were shielded by the institutional RCC. That's not allowing those priests to accept blame nor does it protect children. That was Church policy and it was effed up.

I'm not angry or mean. I'm concerned and I would think you'd be equally concerned. IMO, most Catholics were quite upset by the priest pedophilia scandal and because of that, the RCC had to change their policies regarding priest pedophilia and take responsibility for protecting children. That's a good thing, not something to be ashamed of.

One of my relatives was a survivor of Magdalene Laundries. I spent half my life in the RCC. I think I have every right to comment on religious abuse.

Max Rockatansky
12-16-2013, 08:31 PM
I consider corporal punishment abuse. Gay kids are not the ONLY kids abused at this camp, but they are the ones that are most picked on by the staff. Please post your documentation of this.


Just because child abuse was common in your childhood doesn't make it right. There is something really sick about sending American kids to a school that would not be allowed to be open in the US.Agreed the punishment used in my childhood isn't necessarily right, but I do see that it is sometimes warranted. Do you think making a kid run laps or do push-ups is abuse? I do not. If the temperature outside is excessive to the point where kids could become heat causalities, then, yes, that would be both abusive and irresponsible.

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 08:37 PM
Please post your documentation of this.

Agreed the punishment used in my childhood isn't necessarily right, but I do see that it is sometimes warranted. Do you think making a kid run laps or do push-ups is abuse? I do not. If the temperature outside is excessive to the point where kids could become heat causalities, then, yes, that would be both abusive and irresponsible.

As for running laps and doing push ups. It depends on how many, doesn't it?

Regarding documentation. Read the article I provided and you will see that gay kids stayed at the bottom and were never able to advance.

They were considered shit permanently there.

Codename Section
12-16-2013, 08:37 PM
I see. Now you resort to personal attack because you cannot accept my view. Certainly individual people should accept blame, but you seem to forget that the priests were shielded by the institutional RCC. That's not allowing those priests to accept blame nor does it protect children. That was Church policy and it was effed up.

I'm not angry or mean. I'm concerned and I would think you'd be equally concerned. IMO, most Catholics were quite upset by the priest pedophilia scandal and because of that, the RCC had to change their policies regarding priest pedophilia and take responsibility for protecting children. That's a good thing, not something to be ashamed of.

One of my relatives was a survivor of Magdalene Laundries. I spent half my life in the RCC. I think I have every right to comment on religious abuse.

I don't think that's what she's saying. You guys are completely missing what the other person is talking about.

She is saying that individuals should be held accountable not groups. That's it. She's bringing up public schools because it happens there too but no one hauls out public schools and beats them. They point to individual teachers.

Now, that's all the peacemaking I'm doing for now.

Later gals!

Max Rockatansky
12-16-2013, 08:46 PM
As for running laps and doing push ups. It depends on how many, doesn't it?

Regarding documentation. Read the article I provided and you will see that gay kids stayed at the bottom and were never able to advance.

Yes, but even if they collapsed from exhaustion, as long as there were no medical issues, it's not abuse.

I read both articles and do not see your evidence.

sky dancer
12-16-2013, 08:54 PM
Yes, but even if they collapsed from exhaustion, as long as there were no medical issues, it's not abuse.

I read both articles and do not see your evidence.

Fine. We don't have to agree. Any school in the US doing the kinds of things they did to children there would be shut down in a heart beat. I know because I work for two elementary schools and the measures employed by that school are abusive.

Mister D
12-16-2013, 08:55 PM
Why do you take disagreement so personally, Sky?

Max Rockatansky
12-16-2013, 08:57 PM
Fine. We don't have to agree.
No we don't, but I'm open to discussing the issue. In order to do that, I believe it is very important to have as many facts as possible. I asked you for evidence and you sent me on a wild goose chase. Now you are giving me the brush off with "Fine. We don't have to agree." Why? Are you trying to persuade people to your way of thinking or not?

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 12:02 AM
No we don't, but I'm open to discussing the issue. In order to do that, I believe it is very important to have as many facts as possible. I asked you for evidence and you sent me on a wild goose chase. Now you are giving me the brush off with "Fine. We don't have to agree." Why? Are you trying to persuade people to your way of thinking or not?

No, I'm not trying to persuade anyone to my point of view. I'm interested in sharing my POV and reading others POV's.

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 12:02 AM
Why do you take disagreement so personally, Sky?

I don't. Not unless someone personally attacks me out of nowhere for my view.

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 12:04 AM
I don't think that's what she's saying. You guys are completely missing what the other person is talking about.

She is saying that individuals should be held accountable not groups. That's it. She's bringing up public schools because it happens there too but no one hauls out public schools and beats them. They point to individual teachers.

Now, that's all the peacemaking I'm doing for now.

Later gals!

Individual teachers don't get protected by school policy when they're abusive. The RCC by POLICY and PRACTICE protected priests and did NOT protect children. That's a policy that was screwed up.

GrassrootsConservative
12-17-2013, 12:52 AM
Parent's don't have the right to abuse their children.

Who said they did? What an inane post.

Max Rockatansky
12-17-2013, 06:16 AM
No, I'm not trying to persuade anyone to my point of view. I'm interested in sharing my POV and reading others POV's.

Why not? I'm trying to persuade people to my point of view all the time. That's why I often include links and references to back up my posts.


I don't. Not unless someone personally attacks me out of nowhere for my view.Do you feel I was personally attacking you?

Codename Section
12-17-2013, 08:30 AM
Individual teachers don't get protected by school policy when they're abusive. The RCC by POLICY and PRACTICE protected priests and did NOT protect children. That's a policy that was screwed up.

Yes, they do. Cops, too. There was a school in California that had multiple teachers found out to be sexually abusing students and when the board tried to shut it down to sort out if there were more the teacher's union stopped them.

That's a cover up.

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 10:14 AM
Yes, they do. Cops, too. There was a school in California that had multiple teachers found out to be sexually abusing students and when the board tried to shut it down to sort out if there were more the teacher's union stopped them.

That's a cover up.
Yes, it is. But I'm saying if you add the dimension of a religious institution covering it up you can damage the religious/spiritual life of the child IN ADDITION to the other trauma the child experiences.

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 10:16 AM
Why not? I'm trying to persuade people to my point of view all the time. That's why I often include links and references to back up my posts.

Do you feel I was personally attacking you?
NO, I don't feel you were personally attacking me. I do feel another person was by calling me a "mean and angry person".
I'm not interested in being persuaded to another point of view. I post here to share my ideas and what I feel passionate about, and it interests me what other people think and feel, and why they do.

Codename Section
12-17-2013, 10:22 AM
Yes, it is. But I'm saying if you add the dimension of a religious institution covering it up you can damage the religious/spiritual life of the child IN ADDITION to the other trauma the child experiences.

Teachers are role models and people you look up to, as well. They hold power over you no different between grades and disciplinary action.

I don't blame schools or churches, tho. I had ten years of collective punishment in the military and I know how it feels to be blamed for things other people did.

These people are cop outs on parenting to send their kids away and let other people handle them. I don't approve of it at all.

Codename Section
12-17-2013, 10:23 AM
NO, I don't feel you were personally attacking me. I do feel another person was by calling me a "mean and angry person".
I'm not interested in being persuaded to another point of view. I post here to share my ideas and what I feel passionate about, and it interests me what other people think and feel, and why they do.

Technically, she said you seemed angry and were being mean to her because you weren't listening. You heard "mean and angry person".

Just trying to keep the peace. You're both nice people and I don't want it to get out of hand.

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 10:36 AM
Technically, she said you seemed angry and were being mean to her because you weren't listening. You heard "mean and angry person".

Just trying to keep the peace. You're both nice people and I don't want it to get out of hand.
Well, I don't see much difference between her saying I'm mean and angry and saying I'm a mean and angry person.

Especially since I'm neither. I'm not angry about this story, I'm passionately concerned. Why wouldn't I be? My entire life revolves around children.

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 10:37 AM
Teachers are role models and people you look up to, as well. They hold power over you no different between grades and disciplinary action.

I don't blame schools or churches, tho. I had ten years of collective punishment in the military and I know how it feels to be blamed for things other people did.

These people are cop outs on parenting to send their kids away and let other people handle them. I don't approve of it at all.
As a person of faith myself, destroying a person's faith is a terrible form of abuse. It makes recovery much more difficult.

Codename Section
12-17-2013, 10:40 AM
As a person of faith myself, destroying a person's faith is a terrible form of abuse. It makes recovery much more difficult.

I'm not you or Cthulhu. I'm spiritual and believe in Jesus because of personal experience...I'm not churchy or religiousy. Never have been. If my pastor had come on to me I would have put sugar in his gas tank and went on believing whatever.

There was a pedophile in our neighborhood that my dog hated. He would give me comic books but when I was little comic books were for nerds so I would just laugh and we'd piss on his fence at night. It was weird because we all knew he was creepy and a pedo but instead of being afraid we tormented him.

As I tell this I wonder why I never told my parents.

roadmaster
12-17-2013, 06:50 PM
'Kidnapped For Christ,' Planned Documentary, Aims To Expose 'Ex-Gay' Experiences In Christian Reform Schools



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/kidnapped-for-christ_n_4427968.html


Wow, this is a story of gay kids experiencing extraordinary rendition to schools outside the US for forced anti-gay "therapy".

The woman who directed the film, Kate Logan, says she lost her Christian faith over what she saw filming the documentary.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/14/director-to-raw-story-expose-on-brutal-christian-school-cost-me-my-faith/

You want me to believe a person that is the director of a film just because she says she is a Christian. Not going to happen.

Max Rockatansky
12-17-2013, 07:23 PM
I'm not interested in being persuaded to another point of view.
I read that as you saying you are closed minded about other points of view.


I post here to share my ideas and what I feel passionate about, and it interests me what other people think and feel, and why they do.If you are looking for feedback, you're getting it. I see no problem with you trying to explain to others why you think and feel the way you do. Whether you want to call it that or call it persuasion is up to you, but they are similar. In order for understand why you think and feel the way you do, they have to be open-minded. See the conflict here?

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 09:57 PM
I read that as you saying you are closed minded about other points of view.

If you are looking for feedback, you're getting it. I see no problem with you trying to explain to others why you think and feel the way you do. Whether you want to call it that or call it persuasion is up to you, but they are similar. In order for understand why you think and feel the way you do, they have to be open-minded. See the conflict here?

I see. Well, if you think I'm close minded, then no point in any further discussion.

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 09:58 PM
You want me to believe a person that is the director of a film just because she says she is a Christian. Not going to happen.

I'm not asking you to believe anything. I posted the story. That's it. Take it or leave it.

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 10:00 PM
I'm not you or Cthulhu. I'm spiritual and believe in Jesus because of personal experience...I'm not churchy or religiousy. Never have been. If my pastor had come on to me I would have put sugar in his gas tank and went on believing whatever.

There was a pedophile in our neighborhood that my dog hated. He would give me comic books but when I was little comic books were for nerds so I would just laugh and we'd piss on his fence at night. It was weird because we all knew he was creepy and a pedo but instead of being afraid we tormented him.

As I tell this I wonder why I never told my parents.

Good question. I also wonder why you never told your parents there was a pedophile in the neighborhood. Are you one of those folks who think gays are pedophiles?

I hope not.

Codename Section
12-17-2013, 10:13 PM
Good question. I also wonder why you never told your parents there was a pedophile in the neighborhood. Are you one of those folks who think gays are pedophiles?

I hope not.


Lol, nope. My theory is that there are straights, gays, and pedophiles. I think pedos like children the way a straight guy likes women or a gay dude likes dudes and that it won't change--which is why I think once caught they should go to jail for life because it won't change.

sky dancer
12-17-2013, 10:28 PM
Lol, nope. My theory is that there are straights, gays, and pedophiles. I think pedos like children the way a straight guy likes women or a gay dude likes dudes and that it won't change--which is why I think once caught they should go to jail for life because it won't change.

I agree with you on your theory. I think it's possible for a pedophile to abstain from sexual activity with children, but most cannot. It's a wonder they didn't just send the pedo priests to a monastery for life long retreat.

roadmaster
12-17-2013, 10:38 PM
I'm not asking you to believe anything. I posted the story. That's it. Take it or leave it.

Well I don't listen to lies and homosexuals molest children at a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals, the mainstream homosexual culture even commonly promotes sex with children. The fact are three-fourths of the people who decide the content of the front page of the New York Times are homosexual. So they only put out their opinions for their agenda. I don't play this game and know they are full of it.

Max Rockatansky
12-17-2013, 11:02 PM
I see. Well, if you think I'm close minded, then no point in any further discussion.

Your choice. Just like it was your choice to post this:
I'm not interested in being persuaded to another point of view.

Max Rockatansky
12-17-2013, 11:07 PM
Lol, nope. My theory is that there are straights, gays, and pedophiles. I think pedos like children the way a straight guy likes women or a gay dude likes dudes and that it won't change--which is why I think once caught they should go to jail for life because it won't change.

Your theory has the virtue of being backed by science:

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

Another problem related to terminology arises because sexual abuse of male children by adult men2 is often referred to as "homosexual molestation." The adjective "homosexual" (or "heterosexual" when a man abuses a female child) refers to the victim's gender in relation to that of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, people sometimes mistakenly interpret it as referring to the perpetrator's sexual orientation.

As an expert panel of researchers convened by the National Academy of Sciences noted in a 1993 report: "The distinction between homosexual and heterosexual child molesters relies on the premise that male molesters of male victims are homosexual in orientation. Most molesters of boys do not report sexual interest in adult men, however" (National Research Council, 1993, p. 143, citation omitted).


To avoid this confusion, it is preferable to refer to men's sexual abuse of boys with the more accurate label of male-male molestation. Similarly, it is preferable to refer to men's abuse of girls as male-female molestation. These labels are more accurate because they describe the sex of the individuals involved but don't implicitly convey unwarranted assumptions about the perpetrator's sexual orientation.



The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes.

The link is long and detailed. It's a complex subject. For those seeking the truth, they will learn from it. Those who just want to pigeon-hole all homosexuals as perverts, they will not interested in being persuaded to another point of view.

Dr. Who
12-17-2013, 11:37 PM
No, that is not a form of Christianity. That is a group of sickos who grasp at straws to find reasons to hate. When you can show me where it says in the Gospels this is acceptable I'll concede its a form of Christianity.

Individuals should receive blame for what they individually did.


Nope. Not playing that game. Never dismissed it. I made an analogy. And the public schools DO have more incidents of pedophilia in them, and I wouldn't shut down public schools because of a few pedophiles nor would I blame the schools for not shutting down because of pedophiles.

JMO, you're angry and being mean. You've yet to hear my argument which is that individual people should accept blame for individual actions and that innocent people should not be punished along with them.

Aly I admit that I am an ex-Catholic, but I won't go into the details as to why I left the church. Instead I will concentrate on the countless sexual abuse claims that I have seen in my work that have stemmed from the Catholic Church and in particular from the residential schools that they have operated. The Church's celibacy rules have been a mecca for pedophiles for many, many years and the level of physical ordinary abuse and sexual abuse would leave you sick to your stomach. And I have only seen a small percentage of the number of cases. While I don't blame the Church for being the only vector for sexual abuse, I do know for a fact that the residential school administration were always aware of the abuse, and when it became too difficult to conceal, they sent those priests on to other parishes, to again abuse children in a different school. It is absolutely disgusting how many times these predators were moved to different locations, where they simply took up where they left off. For forty or fifty years these vile people were transferred from parish to parish, when the community started asking too many questions. It's sad, but the Church was much more concerned with concealing the problem, than protecting children and they and their insurers have been and continue to pay dearly for that decision. However lest all the other religious communities, Boy Scouts and any other organization that had children in their custody should be feeling smug, they also attracted pedophiles and they too transferred people away to dispose of the problem in one location, just to foist the same pedophiles on new communities. The thing is that 30 or more years ago no one wanted to discuss these issues, never mind even recognize the kind of damage they were continuing to inflict. The chickens have now come home to roost, and all such organizations pay dearly for sexual abuse coverage, so in order to reduce their premiums, they no longer turn a blind eye to abuse. Believe me, reading the details of the abuse of these children leaves me sick to my stomach.

sky dancer
12-18-2013, 09:41 AM
Well I don't listen to lies and homosexuals molest children at a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals, the mainstream homosexual culture even commonly promotes sex with children. The fact are three-fourths of the people who decide the content of the front page of the New York Times are homosexual. So they only put out their opinions for their agenda. I don't play this game and know they are full of it.

I see. A gay hater. Gotcha.

LGBT is about adult to adult relationships, not preying on children.

roadmaster
12-19-2013, 06:16 PM
I see. A gay hater. Gotcha.

LGBT is about adult to adult relationships, not preying on children. Yes you call it what you want. I call it the truth.

sky dancer
12-19-2013, 10:53 PM
Yes you call it what you want. I call it the truth.

Truth? Truth is you have a fucked up attitude toward gay people. We are NOT pedophiles.

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2013, 06:58 AM
Truth? Truth is you have a fucked up attitude toward gay people. We are NOT pedophiles.
Obviously not as many people on this thread attest.

I find it interesting that you seem to focus on the gay bashers/homophobes (the negative) rather than those who see a person's sexual preference as being a persona matter and irrelevant to other issues (the positive). Why?

sky dancer
12-20-2013, 09:58 AM
Obviously not as many people on this thread attest.

I find it interesting that you seem to focus on the gay bashers/homophobes (the negative) rather than those who see a person's sexual preference as being a persona matter and irrelevant to other issues (the positive). Why?
Good point. You admit your attitude toward gays is negative and scold me for responding to you. I'll take more care to not read or respond to your posts in the future.