Former Top NSA Official: “We Are Now In A Police State”

[Mainecoons]

Bill Binney is the high-level NSA executive who created the agency’s mass surveillance program for digital information. A 32-year NSA veteran widely regarded as a “legend” within the agency, Binney was the senior technical director within the agency and managed thousands of NSA employees.Binney has been interviewed by virtually all of the mainstream media, including CBS (http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9495393), ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=19341792), CNN (http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/18/nsa-whistleblowers-obama-administration-misleading-on-surveillance-programs/), New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/opinion/the-national-security-agencys-domestic-spying-program.html), USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/), Fox News (http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/06/07/nsa-whistleblower-responds-obama-metadata-phone-call-more-revealing-listening), PBS (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/government_programs/july-dec13/whistleblowers_08-01.html) and many others.
Last year, Binney held his thumb and forefinger close together, and said (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1):





We are, like, that far from a turnkey totalitarian state.
But today, Binney told Washington’s Blog that the U.S. has already become a police state.

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-12-18/former-top-nsa-official-%E2%80%9Cwe-are-now-police-state%E2%80%9D

[Cigar]

YES, but we're Fixing that. :wink:

[jillian]

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-12-18/former-top-nsa-official-“we-are-now-police-state”


[/FONT][/COLOR]

where were you when we said baby bush shouldn't sign all this stuff into law?

*now* it offends you?

[Mister D]

where were you when we said baby bush shouldn't sign all this stuff into law?

*now* it offends you?

As I recall, he was saying Bush shouldn't sign this stuff into law.

[Mainecoons]

Opposing it. Now explain to us why it is OK with you now that Obama has let it grow like a weed in his five years?

[Cigar]

Opposing it. Now explain to us why it is OK with you now that Obama has let it grow like a weed in his five years?

Obama has been President of 5 years ... the NSA as been around longer ... sport.

[Mainecoons]

This level of spying hasn't been around since the NSA started, Sport.

:grin:

[Green Arrow]

YES, but we're Fixing that. :wink:

No, we're not. It's getting worse.

[Green Arrow]

It always amuses me when people like Binney and Sensenbrenner create or help create this gross abuse in the first place, and then magically come out some years later when it all becomes unpopular to distance themselves from it. Everyone in government is a civil libertarian when their asses are in the fire, so it seems.

[Mainecoons]

Putin envies Obama for his ability to spy and get away with it. I'm sure Jillian and Cigar would agree.


Russian President Vladimir Putin said he’s jealous of President Barack Obama for being able to “get away” with U.S. spying even after damaging leaks by National Security Agency contractor-turned-fugitive Edward Snowden.“How do I feel about Obama after Snowden’s revelations? I envy him, because he can get away with it,” Putin told reporters during a Thursday news conference in Russia, as quoted by USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/12/19/obama-putin-national-security-agency-russia/4122731/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=825998). Snowden was granted asylum in Russia earlier this year.

Note primary source, USA Today, Jillian. Not a good target for your ad hom hide out from reality. Sorry about that.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/19/putin-i-envy-obama-over-his-spying-program/

[Captain Obvious]

*yawwwn*... police state again, huh?

[Green Arrow]

*yawwwn*... police state again, huh?

Yes, yes, we get it. Some people won't call it a police state until there's a checkpoint every mile, daily searches of every home, tanks rolling down the streets, and people magically disappearing when they criticize the government.

[Alyosha]

The people who are yawning should remember that all things are progressive. What we don't stop today will be worse tomorrow.

That's history.

[Mainecoons]

Yes, they're rather like the Jews who didn't take Hitler seriously.

[Captain Obvious]

Oh nooooo....

What would we ever do????

[Captain Obvious]

Self-inflicted oppression.

[Mainecoons]

Oh nooooo....

What would we ever do????

You would have been one of the ones who waited around until he was marched to the ovens.

[Captain Obvious]

Don't let them take me away...

NOOOO!!!!!!


:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

[Captain Obvious]

You can't make this shit up.

... wait, you are!


:smiley_ROFLMAO::smiley_ROFLMAO::smiley_ROFLMAO:

[Mainecoons]

with the benefit of hindsight, such behavior appears perplexing, even infuriating. But for many well-educated jews, non-jews, germans and americans, hitler’s rants and behavior seemed too bizarre, too far removed from any rational frame of reference, to be taken seriously. Which is why so many appeared to be in denial about what was happening until it was too late.

read more: http://forward.com/articles/157832/jews-failed-to-spot-hitlers-menace/?p=all#ixzz2nw7dwfe8

[Cthulhu]

Yes, they're rather like the Jews who didn't take Hitler seriously.

Perhaps I'm callous. While certainly they didn't deserve the deaths they were awarded. They could have fought back. If the 6 million slaughtered opted to fight instead of get casually massacred, the nazis would have been stopped dead in their tracks and the Hitler war machine defeated much sooner.

[Green Arrow]

Perhaps I'm callous. While certainly they didn't deserve the deaths they were awarded. They could have fought back. If the 6 million slaughtered opted to fight instead of get casually massacred, the nazis would have been stopped dead in their tracks and the Hitler war machine defeated much sooner.

Well, come on now, let's get a little perspective here. It's not like they all just sat back and waited for the Nazis to come knocking. Anyone who wasn't caught in the initial sweeps either fled to other countries or hid within their own. Many of those then went on to fight the Nazis on the side of whatever country they fled to, or even supported resistance movements within their own countries if they elected to stay and hide.

[nic34]

Perhaps I'm callous. While certainly they didn't deserve the deaths they were awarded. They could have fought back. If the 6 million slaughtered opted to fight instead of get casually massacred, the nazis would have been stopped dead in their tracks and the Hitler war machine defeated much sooner.

You do know that 6 million was rounded up over many years and it wasn't like they were all armed.

20/20 hindsight....

[Captain Obvious]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/da/dabaaddcd3ec6a77bb341ce98b51d105931f2c9d4de60e5113 3108577a5c5dc0.jpg

[Green Arrow]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/da/dabaaddcd3ec6a77bb341ce98b51d105931f2c9d4de60e5113 3108577a5c5dc0.jpg

Can you stop trolling the thread, please?

[Captain Obvious]

http://memeshare.net/memes/11/10277.png

[Cthulhu]

Well, come on now, let's get a little perspective here. It's not like they all just sat back and waited for the Nazis to come knocking. Anyone who wasn't caught in the initial sweeps either fled to other countries or hid within their own. Many of those then went on to fight the Nazis on the side of whatever country they fled to, or even supported resistance movements within their own countries if they elected to stay and hide.

The fact they even wore the yellow star should have been a very big red flag when people started disappearing, never to be heard from again. But yes there were some who did fight, but they were a fraction of what should have been a much larger segment. They could have brought the Nazis to there knees. But didn't. Family men taking their family to go elsewhere makes sense.

But not all of them were family men, many were capable of bearing arms, yet didn't. Don't know why it didn't happen. Make no sense to me.


You do know that 6 million was rounded up over many years and it wasn't like they were all armed.

20/20 hindsight....

6 million? Hardly. This is under dispute by many people - Jews included. Many yes, but no way was it 6 million.

[Green Arrow]

The fact they even wore the yellow star should have been a very big red flag when people started disappearing, never to be heard from again. But yes there were some who did fight, but they were a fraction of what should have been a much larger segment. They could have brought the Nazis to there knees. But didn't. Family men taking their family to go elsewhere makes sense.

But not all of them were family men, many were capable of bearing arms, yet didn't. Don't know why it didn't happen. Make no sense to me.

Meh, it's the story of mankind. We rarely rise up against our oppressors in mass numbers. It's always a small, dedicated group that does all the dirty work, no matter the society.

[Captain Obvious]

Can you stop trolling the thread, please?

No sir, not trolling the thread.

Mocking it, using this as a way to say what a ridiculously paranoid, self-inflicted obsessive point this is.

... but not trolling. I wouldn't do that.

I'll stop nonetheless.

[Green Arrow]

No sir, not trolling the thread.

Mocking it, using this as a way to say what a ridiculously paranoid, self-inflicted obsessive point this is.

... but not trolling. I wouldn't do that.

I'll stop nonetheless.

Thank you.

[del]

The fact they even wore the yellow star should have been a very big red flag when people started disappearing, never to be heard from again. But yes there were some who did fight, but they were a fraction of what should have been a much larger segment. They could have brought the Nazis to there knees. But didn't. Family men taking their family to go elsewhere makes sense.

But not all of them were family men, many were capable of bearing arms, yet didn't. Don't know why it didn't happen. Make no sense to me.



6 million? Hardly. This is under dispute by many people - Jews included. Many yes, but no way was it 6 million.

cite a jewish source that contends that the number is significantly under 6 million.

[Alyosha]

Well, come on now, let's get a little perspective here. It's not like they all just sat back and waited for the Nazis to come knocking. Anyone who wasn't caught in the initial sweeps either fled to other countries or hid within their own. Many of those then went on to fight the Nazis on the side of whatever country they fled to, or even supported resistance movements within their own countries if they elected to stay and hide.

Many--no, most did wait. They had trust that things would get better. It wasn't the first pogrom in Central and Eastern Europe. They cared more about comfort and property than freedom. They are like 90% of everyone else in this.

They gambled and lost.

The smart ones live in the US and other countries. That's just a fact. Trust is a terrible thing, at times.

[countryboy]

Opposing it. Now explain to us why it is OK with you now that Obama has let it grow like a weed in his five years?
Ahahahahahah!!! Good one!

[Cthulhu]

cite a jewish source that contends that the number is significantly under 6 million.

Ha. Imagine that. Link rot. Perhaps you might find it if you look as well. It isn't popular information. And to my crude understanding of the matter, it has some kabbalistic significance - which might be why so many focus on that number specifically.

[Mister D]

The fact they even wore the yellow star should have been a very big red flag when people started disappearing, never to be heard from again. But yes there were some who did fight, but they were a fraction of what should have been a much larger segment. They could have brought the Nazis to there knees. But didn't. Family men taking their family to go elsewhere makes sense.

But not all of them were family men, many were capable of bearing arms, yet didn't. Don't know why it didn't happen. Make no sense to me.



6 million? Hardly. This is under dispute by many people - Jews included. Many yes, but no way was it 6 million.

Most the Nazis' victims were not Jewish. Approximately 5 million Soviet POWs alone died in German hands and Poland lost a quarter of her population. As for 6 million, what difference does it make? Once you join the million victims club keeping count loses meaning.

I also think the partisan was a regrettable waste of lives. That said, I understand the psychological need for it.

[del]

Ha. Imagine that. Link rot. Perhaps you might find it if you look as well. It isn't popular information. And to my crude understanding of the matter, it has some kabbalistic significance - which might be why so many focus on that number specifically.

so you've got nothing

thanks

[Chris]

where were you when we said baby bush shouldn't sign all this stuff into law?

*now* it offends you?


Opposing it. Now explain to us why it is OK with you now that Obama has let it grow like a weed in his five years?



A lot of us were opposing Bush doing it and are now consistently opposing Obama's doing it.

Where's the left's consistency on this, castigating Bush still for what it gives Obama a pass.

[countryboy]

A lot of us were opposing Bush doing it and are now consistently opposing Obama's doing it.

Where's the left's consistency on this, castigating Bush still for what it gives Obama a pass.
They have no consistency. They're libs, duh. :rolleyes:

[Chris]

Perhaps I'm callous. While certainly they didn't deserve the deaths they were awarded. They could have fought back. If the 6 million slaughtered opted to fight instead of get casually massacred, the nazis would have been stopped dead in their tracks and the Hitler war machine defeated much sooner.



Germans could have resisted as well.

I think the problem was captured by Madison: "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."


It's related to the Sorites Paradox:



1 grain of sand does not make a heap.
If 1 grain of sand does not make a heap then 2 grains of sand do not.
If 2 grains of sand do not make a heap then 3 grains do not.
…
If 9,999 grains of sand do not make a heap then 10,000 do not.




Or...

http://i.snag.gy/ZUCCS.jpg

[Mister D]

I think we tend to assume everyone wants to live like we do.

[Chris]

Back to the topic, this was an interesting WaPo blog piece the other day:

“These Programs Were Never About Terrorism: They’re About Economic Spying, Social Control, and Diplomatic Manipulation. They’re About Power” (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/12/programs-never-terrorism-theyre-economic-spying-social-control-diplomatic-manipulation-theyre-power.html)


Snowden Gives the Big Picture

Edward Snowden wrote yesterday about mass surveillance by the NSA:



These programs were never about terrorism: they’re about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation. They’re about power.


He’s right.

These Programs Were Never About Terrorism

The NSA started mass spying on Americans before 9/11 … and various excuses have been used over the years.

The NSA was already spying on American Senators and prominent Americans who spoke out against the Vietnam War more than 40 years ago.

The NSA has also been conducting industrial espionage for many decades.

There is no evidence that mass surveillance has prevented a single terrorist attack. And see this confirming opinion by a federal judge. On the contrary, top counter-terror experts say that mass spying actually hurts U.S. counter-terror efforts (more here and here).

If NSA spying were really focused on terrorism, our allies and companies wouldn’t be fighting back so hard against it.

....

[Guerilla]

No sir, not trolling the thread.

Mocking it, using this as a way to say what a ridiculously paranoid, self-inflicted obsessive point this is.

... but not trolling. I wouldn't do that.

I'll stop nonetheless.

So what makes Americans so unique that they are immune to tyranny? What is it that makes us so different? The time? The almighty constitution?

The Milgram Experiment says we are no different.

[Chris]

So what makes Americans so unique that they are immune to tyranny? What is it that makes us so different? The time? The almighty constitution?

The Milgram Experiment says we are no different.

Interesting point. People will be evil in order to get approval from an authority.

[McCool]

where were you when we said baby bush shouldn't sign all this stuff into law?

*now* it offends you? I'M offended that the Left isn't trying to repeal all this stuff.