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Cigar
01-03-2014, 01:37 PM
On Jan. 1, the moment arrived that conservatives had been dreading: Obamacare took effect. Last year’s Republican freakout and government shutdown was a desperate, doomed, Hail Mary attempt to stave this off. It failed, and now a number of important changes have taken place: Insurance companies can’t deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions or charge them higher rates. There’s a limit to how much they can charge the elderly. Kids can stay on their parents’ insurance until age 26. Millions of people—nobody’s sure yet how many millions—now have health insurance because of Obamacare. This unalterably changes the political landscape, even if a lot of Republicans haven’t yet come to terms with that fact.

One reason so many Republicans fought so bitterly against the health-care law and its implementation was the recognition that once a social benefit or government guarantee is bestowed, it’s almost impossible to revoke. Republicans made two big strategic bets about stopping Obamacare, both of which failed. The first was the decision not to participate in shaping the policy—the choice to oppose and obstruct the bill at every turn in hopes of killing it, rather than steer it in a more conservative direction. As former George W. Bush speechwriter David Frum noted at the time (in a column that cost him his job at the American Enterprise Institute and basically got him drummed out of the conservative movement), this turned out to be a disastrous decision—a Republican “Waterloo,” in Frum’s famous phrase.

The second big strategic bet was that Obamacare could still be stopped, even after it was signed into law, by stopping Obama himself from winning a second term. If Obama lost his bid for reelection, this line of thinking went, then his signature policy would come to be seen as a failure that cost him the White House and thus irredeemably tainted. Then it could be repealed or drastically scaled back. That’s why Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said in 2010, after Obamacare was law, that the “single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” It’s why McConnell made himself the architect of the Republican strategy to achieve this—but that strategy ultimately failed.

Now that the law and its full range of benefits have taken effect, the idea that it can be repealed is folly. But conservatives such as the ones behind this new ad from the YG Network (“YG” stands for “young guns”), a 501c(4), seem not to recognize this new reality:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=skXjvRStpMg

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-02/now-republicans-have-to-prove-they-can-do-better-than-obamacare



Good-Luck :laugh:

texan
01-03-2014, 02:09 PM
I hope it works. I just see many holes and we can't let the cost cripple us.

Peter1469
01-03-2014, 02:11 PM
Why? Republicans can't get any legislation to the floor of the Senate. They should STFU for once, let Obamacare implode, then sweep the House and Senate in November. Then bring plans to the House and Senate, pass them and move on to the next problem.

Cigar
01-03-2014, 02:11 PM
I hope it works. I just see many holes and we can't let the cost cripple us.

No Law is ever perfect ... that's why we're always made them better.

We tried doing nothing for decades and that didn't resolve anything.

Cigar
01-03-2014, 02:14 PM
Why? Republicans can't get any legislation to the floor of the Senate. They should STFU for once, let Obamacare implode, then sweep the House and Senate in November. Then bring plans to the House and Senate, pass them and move on to the next problem.

Sounds like a great plan ... but hows that working out so far? :laugh:

When your Speaker bring plans to the House ... who are you blaming for it's defeats?

Peter1469
01-03-2014, 03:12 PM
Sounds like a great plan ... but hows that working out so far? :laugh:

When your Speaker bring plans to the House ... who are you blaming for it's defeats?

They aren't defeated in the House. They go to the Senate, and the President of the Senate doesn't bring the bills to the floor.

Cigar
01-03-2014, 03:21 PM
Yes there are still some rough patches, but is is starting t help those that would be in distress without out it.

So to the conservative nay sayers that want it to fail...

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/g/u/4/obama-deal-with-it.jpg

zelmo1234
01-03-2014, 03:35 PM
There is not a liberal in the country that does not know what a disaster Obamacare is.

We have already had hospitals turn away people that have the ACA plans because they now have to ability to pay, so unless it is life threatening, they don't have to administer care!

What you have people like Cigar trying to do is to get the Republicans to engage in changing the law or working on the law so the democrats can share the blame for it's failure They know if they can't get republicans to help try and modify the law, that 2014 will be a bigger loss than 2010~

The rhetoric is going to continue to get worse from the left as they are desperate to have a finger to point at something other than themselves.

If the republicans don't bail them out, then after the election it is likely that enough demos will vote with republicans to override the veto~

GrassrootsConservative
01-03-2014, 03:39 PM
Now Republicans Have to Prove They Can Do Better Than Obamacare


:huh:
Lol? What we had was better than Obamacare. You really expect Democrat voters to forget the 200+ million people who HAD health insurance before this debacle?

Cigar
01-03-2014, 03:40 PM
There is not a liberal in the country that does not know what a disaster Obamacare is.

We have already had hospitals turn away people that have the ACA plans because they now have to ability to pay, so unless it is life threatening, they don't have to administer care!

What you have people like Cigar trying to do is to get the Republicans to engage in changing the law or working on the law so the democrats can share the blame for it's failure They know if they can't get republicans to help try and modify the law, that 2014 will be a bigger loss than 2010~

The rhetoric is going to continue to get worse from the left as they are desperate to have a finger to point at something other than themselves.

If the republicans don't bail them out, then after the election it is likely that enough demos will vote with republicans to override the veto~


Without all the hysterics, rhetoric and drama queen theatrics , please explain to us this Disaster. :laugh:

Take your time, don't strain yourself and shit in your pants trying. :grin:

Peter1469
01-03-2014, 04:01 PM
Without all the hysterics, rhetoric and drama queen theatrics , please explain to us this Disaster. :laugh:

Take your time, don't strain yourself and shit in your pants trying. :grin:


A lot, but for one, and this is major, there are not enough young healthy people buying into the plan to pay for the old and sick. That means that the premiums will skyrocket.

Ransom
01-03-2014, 04:11 PM
There are in fact many healthy young people finding our they qualify for new medicaid qualifications....we're gonna have to pay for them....and their birth control.

patrickt
01-03-2014, 04:59 PM
The disaster.
1. People losing coverage after they were promised they wouldn't.
2. Premiums increasing dramatically if you have to pay for your own healthcare.
3. Much higher deductible
4. The simple easy registration
5. The free stuff that no one ever has to pay for
6. Taking from Medicare to help hide the cost increases with Obamacare
7. And the fraud has already started with the IRS not knowing where $76,000,000 for implementation went.
8. They'll destroy your flutes without even telling you.

Welcome to LibWorld folks.

zelmo1234
01-03-2014, 10:41 PM
Without all the hysterics, rhetoric and drama queen theatrics , please explain to us this Disaster. :laugh:

Take your time, don't strain yourself and shit in your pants trying. :grin:

Really quit simple to someone that has to use it

It cost more, covers less, and you have fewer providers and not as many options open to you that are covered?

The side effects are 716 billion form Medicare, the new 29 hour work week stagnant unemployment, a fall work participation rate, and higher taxes

The thing is YOU of all people know it, just like all the Dems and are praying that some RINO republicans will join in to help so you can try and take them down with you!

lynn
01-04-2014, 07:55 AM
They aren't defeated in the House. They go to the Senate, and the President of the Senate doesn't bring the bills to the floor.

Perhaps because none of them read the bills first before voting on them.

Peter1469
01-04-2014, 08:07 AM
Perhaps because none of them read the bills first before voting on them.

No, the Senate is controlled by the democrats- the leader gets to choose which bills go to the floor.

Mini Me
01-04-2014, 12:52 PM
On Jan. 1, the moment arrived that conservatives had been dreading: Obamacare took effect. Last year’s Republican freakout and government shutdown was a desperate, doomed, Hail Mary attempt to stave this off. It failed, and now a number of important changes have taken place: Insurance companies can’t deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions or charge them higher rates. There’s a limit to how much they can charge the elderly. Kids can stay on their parents’ insurance until age 26. Millions of people—nobody’s sure yet how many millions—now have health insurance because of Obamacare. This unalterably changes the political landscape, even if a lot of Republicans haven’t yet come to terms with that fact.

One reason so many Republicans fought so bitterly against the health-care law and its implementation was the recognition that once a social benefit or government guarantee is bestowed, it’s almost impossible to revoke. Republicans made two big strategic bets about stopping Obamacare, both of which failed. The first was the decision not to participate in shaping the policy—the choice to oppose and obstruct the bill at every turn in hopes of killing it, rather than steer it in a more conservative direction. As former George W. Bush speechwriter David Frum noted at the time (in a column that cost him his job at the American Enterprise Institute and basically got him drummed out of the conservative movement), this turned out to be a disastrous decision—a Republican “Waterloo,” in Frum’s famous phrase.

The second big strategic bet was that Obamacare could still be stopped, even after it was signed into law, by stopping Obama himself from winning a second term. If Obama lost his bid for reelection, this line of thinking went, then his signature policy would come to be seen as a failure that cost him the White House and thus irredeemably tainted. Then it could be repealed or drastically scaled back. That’s why Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said in 2010, after Obamacare was law, that the “single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” It’s why McConnell made himself the architect of the Republican strategy to achieve this—but that strategy ultimately failed.

Now that the law and its full range of benefits have taken effect, the idea that it can be repealed is folly. But conservatives such as the ones behind this new ad from the YG Network (“YG” stands for “young guns”), a 501c(4), seem not to recognize this new reality:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=skXjvRStpMg

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-02/now-republicans-have-to-prove-they-can-do-better-than-obamacare



Good-Luck :laugh:

The Rethugs can't create or build anything! They are just hired guns for the corporate elitist pigs to promote the globalist agenda for the NWO.

They are agents of auto-destruct for anything Bama or the Dems propose. No mystery there, it really is quite simple.

Sadly, they have Maobama, the pretendo lib and third way Dems working with them, silently behind closed doors.This is the twin headed farce thugocracy we are supposed to believe in.

Mini Me
01-04-2014, 12:56 PM
They aren't defeated in the House. They go to the Senate, and the President of the Senate doesn't bring the bills to the floor.

That's because the Rethug bills are worthless Trojan Horses for the corp elite that have no chance of passing.

See how simple all this really is?

Mini Me
01-04-2014, 01:00 PM
There is not a liberal in the country that does not know what a disaster Obamacare is.

We have already had hospitals turn away people that have the ACA plans because they now have to ability to pay, so unless it is life threatening, they don't have to administer care!

What you have people like Cigar trying to do is to get the Republicans to engage in changing the law or working on the law so the democrats can share the blame for it's failure They know if they can't get republicans to help try and modify the law, that 2014 will be a bigger loss than 2010~

The rhetoric is going to continue to get worse from the left as they are desperate to have a finger to point at something other than themselves.

If the republicans don't bail them out, then after the election it is likely that enough demos will vote with republicans to override the veto~

OK, agreed! ObamaScare is a fucking disaster!

Now what do the Rethugs have to replace it with? Answer: NOTHING!

And they sure as Hell will never go for a single payer deal!

No matter what happens, you can be sure that the Insurers will continue to gouge us!

Mr. Freeze
01-04-2014, 01:06 PM
OK, agreed! ObamaScare is a fucking disaster!

Now what do the Rethugs have to replace it with? Answer: NOTHING!

And they sure as Hell will never go for a single payer deal!

No matter what happens, you can be sure that the Insurers will continue to gouge us!


Why should they be responsible for replacing it when it was the Democrat's desire to create it? They won't destroy it because that would mean they spent and wasted billions, cost pain and suffering to the middle class, all for nothing.

This will last for years if the Democrats have any desire to keep their offices. They must attempt to fix the abomination they created.

I have no love for Republicans as I see them and Democrats as my enemy, but I am also not going to pretend the Democrats aren't horrible managers of the nation just because I think the Republicans are worse.

We all deserve something better or at least the right to reform and confederate. It's not 1780. We have better methods of cooperation now thanks to technology.

Mini Me
01-04-2014, 10:38 PM
Why should they be responsible for replacing it when it was the Democrat's desire to create it? They won't destroy it because that would mean they spent and wasted billions, cost pain and suffering to the middle class, all for nothing.

This will last for years if the Democrats have any desire to keep their offices. They must attempt to fix the abomination they created.

I have no love for Republicans as I see them and Democrats as my enemy, but I am also not going to pretend the Democrats aren't horrible managers of the nation just because I think the Republicans are worse.

We all deserve something better or at least the right to reform and confederate. It's not 1780. We have better methods of cooperation now thanks to technology.

I agree with you Bro!

But the Rethugs have an opportuntity to sit down and rewrite the ACA, and should prove to people that they can create something, instead of destroying and obstructing for a change.

But it is a given that they wont, if history be our guide.

zelmo1234
01-04-2014, 11:34 PM
I agree with you Bro!

But the Rethugs have an opportuntity to sit down and rewrite the ACA, and should prove to people that they can create something, instead of destroying and obstructing for a change.

But it is a given that they wont, if history be our guide.

We saw Cigar pleading with the Republicans to get involved in the ACA, now we see another wanting the same thing?

This will be the strategy throughout 2014 to try and get the republicans to take interest and help change the law, then they will say everything was working fine until the republicans got involved?

There is NO fix to the ACA, what need to happen is that we need to eat all those that are in the Medicaid expansion and end further sign ups for this. Restore the 716 billion in payments to doctors and hospitals so they will start excepting Medicare/Caid again!

everything else needs to be abolished! and then they can start over.

There are a few things that they all agree on #1 26 years old and still on parents insurance #2 being able to carry your insurance with you! And that ia about it!

patrickt
01-05-2014, 06:26 AM
I agree with you Bro!

But the Rethugs have an opportuntity to sit down and rewrite the ACA, and should prove to people that they can create something, instead of destroying and obstructing for a change.

But it is a given that they wont, if history be our guide.

So far, all the Democrats have done through blackmail, kickbacks, and rule changes is to destroy the system that was in place. You know, the one where 85% of the people had insurance that they would get to keep if they wanted to. It was replaced with a skit from the Three Stooges called the Affordable Care Act which is clearly not affordable.

Why is now the time for anyone besides the Democrats to show what they've done? They could start by following the law they passed or running back to Congress to pass some amendments...that they won't read before passing. The Democrats successfully destroyed a health care system and are desperately looking for someone else to blame.

Libhater
01-05-2014, 06:45 AM
So far, all the Democrats have done through blackmail, kickbacks, and rule changes is to destroy the system that was in place. You know, the one where 85% of the people had insurance that they would get to keep if they wanted to. It was replaced with a skit from the Three Stooges called the Affordable Care Act which is clearly not affordable.

Why is now the time for anyone besides the Democrats to show what they've done? They could start by following the law they passed or running back to Congress to pass some amendments...that they won't read before passing. The Democrats successfully destroyed a health care system and are desperately looking for someone else to blame.

Right on brother. Isn't it just precious to see a couple of the progressives here expecting Republicans to join in on the disaster with their plan to ruin America. We're all hoping that the Republicans sit back at let the dems and libs take all the blame for this train wreck.

Peter1469
01-05-2014, 08:27 AM
I agree with you Bro!

But the Rethugs have an opportuntity to sit down and rewrite the ACA, and should prove to people that they can create something, instead of destroying and obstructing for a change.

But it is a given that they wont, if history be our guide.

But now is not the time since they can't get any plan to the Senate floor. Step back, STFU and let Obamacare fail under its own weight.

Peter1469
01-05-2014, 08:32 AM
Open up Medicaid to people who can't get insurance and leave everyone else alone. Then control costs better, especially for Medicaid. People on Medicaid can have "Ford Focus" coverage rather than "Mercedes S Class" coverage.

patrickt
01-05-2014, 08:36 AM
Open up Medicaid to people who can't get insurance and leave everyone else alone. Then control costs better, especially for Medicaid. People on Medicaid can have "Ford Focus" coverage rather than "Mercedes S Class" coverage.

But, Peter, that wouldn't really expand the power of the left and that's all they want. Before Obamacare passed we were told that 25% of the uninsured were eligible for Medicare or Medicaid but hadn't signed up. Now, the liberals have spent billions getting them signed up. That's their great success.

And, the liberals are desperately looking for someone to blame. A few days ago a poster blamed the Heritage Foundation. That's really grasping for straws...and lying.

countryboy
01-05-2014, 09:49 AM
OK, agreed! ObamaScare is a fucking disaster!

Now what do the Rethugs have to replace it with? Answer: NOTHING!

And they sure as Hell will never go for a single payer deal!

No matter what happens, you can be sure that the Insurers will continue to gouge us!

Anyone who says this is either willfully spreading disinformation, or, is woefully ignorant. Which are you?

Why would any sane thinking person want to "go for" single payer?

BB-35
01-05-2014, 09:53 AM
I agree with you Bro!

But the Rethugs have an opportuntity to sit down and rewrite the ACA, and should prove to people that they can create something, instead of destroying and obstructing for a change.

But it is a given that they wont, if history be our guide.
'Rethugs'?<eyeroll>

Ransom
01-05-2014, 10:10 AM
The Republicans have reforms and adjustments, the free market is our plan. But, its not going to be difficult to offer an alternative to an Obamacare rollout that has resulted in many people's pets via their trusted Vet clinics in a free market having better health care insurance