Arizona Republican Debate Tonight at 8ET

[Conley]

Twenty-seven days. That's how long it has been between the 19th and 20th Republican presidential debates.

But that ends Wednesday, when former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and Rep. Ron Paul of Texas face off at a debate hosted by CNN and the Republican Party of Arizona at the Mesa Arts Center.

A lot has changed in the battle for the GOP nomination since the last debate, a CNN-Republican Party of Florida showdown in Jacksonville on January 26. Romney went on to win big in Florida and Nevada, while Gingrich, who had just scored an impressive victory in South Carolina, faded fast.

Then Santorum surged in state and national polling after sweeping the February 7th contests in Colorado, Minnesota and Missouri.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/22/election/2012/arizona-debate/index.html

It has been a while since I bothered to tune into one of these (they're up to #20 now!) but I may just flip it on to see how Romney handles himself.

[Mister D]

Dayum. 20? I'm getting the feeling I ought to get to know Rick on the issues...

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Rick_Santorum.htm

[Conley]

Dayum. 20? I'm getting the feeling I ought to get to know Rick on the issues...

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Rick_Santorum.htm


Great link, thanks. I suppose this is not a flash in the pan anymore and I should educate myself as well.

[Conley]

http://www.ontheissues.org/images/s000_090.gif

:laugh: About what I expected.

[Mister D]

http://www.ontheissues.org/images/s000_090.gif

:laugh: About what I expected.

Wow. From what I've read IO thought he'd be a little closer to populist but I'm not at all surprised by the conservative rating.

[MMC]

According to news reports this morning Santorum has overtaken Romney on the National Polls. I bet Santorium surges in Arizona.

I am tired of the argument that Romney is the only one that has a shot at beating Obama. Do we just accept Romney as the defacto shoe in? I say no! I don't give a damn that he has changed his ways and moved to the right. All this crap he has been in a Presidential Election before. He know show to handle this and that and he is organized. Hello.....he lost! The American People Never took to him. Plus now I think more and more people are tired of his pre-fabbed lines and see he has no plans.

So what he is a good man. So what he has family priniciples. This is not whats going to drive independant voters to vote for him.

Still Romney is better than Gingrich.....but both shouldnt be considered. Gingrich I heard pops Adelson for another ten million. But has spent all of it and is in the hole again. Just how do you keep running while staying in debt and not organizing anything? Yet people are suppose to believe because he has big ideas he should be elected.

[Conley]

I still think Romney has a better shot at beating Obama than Santorum. If Romney get the nomination I think swing voters will not vote in big numbers for either D or R. They just won't come out. If Santorum wins the nomination many are going to come out explicitly to vote against him. People are terrified of the guy and partly because of what he's said and partly because of their own lack of due diligence, will believe almost anything negative about the guy. Just my two cents of course...but that's how I see it.

[MMC]

My point is if no one comes out and votes. Then Obama wins. Everybody else in the World is all looking for Obama to win. I know they are not citizens of the US. But you don't have all the big money in the world making certain moves all based on who the US President is going to be and then be like oh well we were wrong.

The only way is if the American voters come out enmasse and vote anything but Obama. Do you see this happening here?

[Conley]

My point is if no one comes out and votes. Then Obama wins.

I don't think that's true. I used to think that too. But if you go back and look at how the votes went when he was against McCain, the young and the black votes were what won him the election. He's not going to that a second time. No way is he going to get anywhere close to those numbers this time around.

[Mister D]

Turnout for BO will be significantly lower if not much lower. I'm confident of that.

[Mister D]

The whole Obama rock star thing was embarrassing to watch.

[MMC]

Yeah but it is looking like that even voting period is going to be in essence dangerously low. :undecided:

[Mister D]

That's certainly possible.

[Conley]

Maybe so, maybe so. I really think Santorum is going to mobilize the Left and whip them into a frenzy. They are going to go all out to take him down.

[Mister D]

If Santorum can play up his blue collar populism and play down the social stuff to some extent he might pick up a lot of independents and blue collar Dems.

[Conley]

If Santorum can play up his blue collar populism and play down the social stuff to some extent he might pick up a lot of independents and blue collar Dems.

Possibly. He has really made an issue of the social stuff in the last couple of weeks and I think Romney is going to hammer him on that tonight in the debate. Romney has to walk a fine line to do it though.

[Mister D]

I guess what is said is more applicable to the general election than the primary. Seems Santorum is doing aqlready something right in the primary.

[Conley]

I guess what is said is more applicable to the general election than the primary. Seems Santorum is doing aqlready something right in the primary.

Oh he's definitely kicking butt in the primaries. As Mainecoons said and as I agree, those appeal to the more extreme and more partisan.

[MMC]

Trust me I wish it wasn't so. There is no one expecting any change from what is. Look All the big money in the World is on Obama. The European Soveriegn Debt Crisis is way worse than they imagined. Which it is going to affect that Global thingy bout economies. Quite frankly back to that so called Abyss Obama talked about but never told anybody what it was really about.

The lie is the EU will be in recession. Again it is a lie. They will be in depression. Already Greece and few others ARE in depression. This morning on Bloomberg News.....they were talking to overseas Economists and already they are saying that Greece will need another round of Austerity Measures and maybe even before the end of this year. The Whole EU other than Germany but will go down with them is set for 1% contraction. Thats at the very best. Most say this has surpassed the South American and Latin Debt Crisis of the 70's.

So their all pumping out money and spending. All their economists look to speculation on the US and talk about how we seem to be coming out of our funk. But see they need that money and spending. They need the US to keep doling out money and spending so they can ease their burdens and responsibilities. Even if it takes us down to contraction.

Then there is the ME and the Sunni and Saud. More money is expected and they are spending more money as well. Asian markets are spending. All have adopted this Keynesian Economics to spend their way out of debt. It's not working as most do not have any growth.

They seem to think with the ending of the War in Afghanistan that all the money that was put out for such, that was not on our books, (yet Congres had to always add to a record of a book that never existed.) that the US will have money to crank up our Infrastructure, therby creating jobs, and moving all down the line. Thereby avoiding an Alleged World-Wide Financial disaster.....Again!

[Conley]

In terms of economic policy I don't think Romney and Obama have much separating them. As far as Santorum goes, I really have no idea. My impression from the speaking he is doing is that he's far more concerned with social issues than economic ones and frankly, I don't find that appealing at all.

[Mister D]

He'll definintely need to change his tune for the general and I am sure he knows. Or at least I hope he does.

[jgreer]

LOL if the republicans pick Santorum they already lost

[Conley]

I said I might turn this on, but realistically I'll probably just watch the highlights of this later in the evening. I'm not sure I can stand listening to these guys yammer on for an hour or two.

[Mister D]

The highlights will be on all of the opinion shows anyway. What time is the debate?

[Conley]

8 et / 5 pt

[Conley]

There's an article on CNN questioning whether any will be wearing ashes.

[Mister D]

8 et / 5 pt

It's in the freaking thread title. :laugh: Who's Catholic?

[Conley]

It's in the freaking thread title. :laugh: Who's Catholic?

I thought about pointing that out to you.

Santorum and Gingrich are both Catholic. Santorum is a little more into it I think. :grin:

[Mister D]

Oh, Gingrich is Catholic? I'm gonna look at his Wiki page,. I thought he was a WASP.

[Mister D]

He is of German, English, Scottish, and Irish descent.[8] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-7)

I guess that makes sense.

[Conley]

Oh, Gingrich is Catholic? I'm gonna look at his Wiki page,. I thought he was a WASP.

He switched teams pretty late in the game. I'm not going to comment more than that. :laugh:

[Mister D]

In 2009!? Wow that is pretty late in the game.

[Conley]

Any discussion of Newt Gingrich's journey to Catholicism begins with his wife.

"I have always been a very spiritual person," Callista Gingrich told the Christian Broadcasting Network this year. "I start each day with a prayer, and pray throughout the day, because I am grateful for the many blessings that God has bestowed upon us."

Mrs. Gingrich, who is Newt Gingrich's third wife, is a devout Catholic who sings in the professional choir at the the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington, D.C. After they married in 2000, Gingrich began attending Mass practically every week to watch her perform.

"And I was doing that as a supportive husband, and it sort of caught up with me in a way I could never imagine," Gingrich told the Catholic TV network EWTN.

http://www.npr.org/2011/12/22/144080998/gingrichs-catholic-journey-began-with-third-wife

[Mister D]

I was going to say that it's not so surprising. It looks like he converted for his wife.

[Mister D]

Buckley once said that Catholicism is the religion most suitable for conservatives.

[MMC]

Yeah.....Gig-n-Rich changed up late in the game. Kinda like his Politics. Wherein he has his own version of Conservatism. Gingrich outright lies and then deflects back to he has big ideas. Romney another that changed up late in the game. His with Politics. But now we are suppose to believe he has seen the light and crossed on over.

Many are saying theat Santorum will turn the race into social issues. Where he will stand on Ideaology and lose. That this will play into Obama and the Dems plans.

That BS Romney is hitting Santorum on with that he voted 18 times to expand Government is a crock. Thats the Debt limit he voted to raise. All those Stop Gap Measures.

[MMC]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2012-02/68161915.jpg

I will laugh my ass off if Romney Comes out Dressing like this. :laugh:

[Conley]

:laugh: That would be great.

Are you going to watch it live?

[MMC]

I doubt it.

[Conley]

It's getting chippy! The video is being played live on CNN...here's the play-by-play:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/22/live-blog-cnn-arizona-republican-presidential-debate/

[Peter1469]

At least the questions seem to be rational.

I wonder when the moderator will bring up Satan?

[Conley]

:laugh:

That question about birth control got a lot of boos and whistles. The crowd is getting restless...

[Conley]

This debate is actually much better, I attribute it to only have four people up there. The first few I watched with eight or ten were just ridiculous.

[Conley]

Santorum bringing this up: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/2085-Too-Poor-to-Marry

He is fired up.

[Mister D]

Santorum bringing this up: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/2085-Too-Poor-to-Marry

He is fired up.

Frankly, if that is the kind of social conservatism that leads to political defeat this imbecilic population deserves to have a government that cynically manipulates it.

[Peter1469]

Paul is correct. Keep that stuff at the local level. We can't have a once size fits all solution for America on these social issues.

[Mister D]

Paul is correct. Keep that stuff at the local level. We can't have a once size fits all solution for America on these social issues.

In most cases I'd agree but the benefits of marriage, particularly for poor women, are as valid nationally as they are locally.

[Conley]

In most cases I'd agree but the benefits of marriage, particularly for poor women, are as valid nationally as they are locally.

There are benefits to many things but IMO we can't have the government deciding that for us.

[Mister D]

There are benefits to many things but IMO we can't have the government deciding that for us.

He's not suggesting the government decide anything. He's simply stating what should be obvious but apparently isn't to the folks at the NYT. Illegitimacy has been an unmitigated disaster not locally but nationally.

[Conley]

He's not suggesting the government decide anything. He's simply stating what should be obvious but apparently isn't to the folks at the NYT. Illegitimacy has been an unmitigated disaster not locally but nationally.

He supports government funding for abstinence programs.

[Conley]

I'm not pro-illegitamacy. It's a serious concern. So is obesity and a hundred other poor choices people make every day.

[Mister D]

I'm not pro-illegitamacy. It's a serious concern. So is obesity and a hundred other poor choices people make every day.

Serious politicians address serious concerns. They don't pretend they aren't their purview. Moreover, people don't choose to be illegitimate like they choose to scarf down McNuggets or drive drunk.

[Conley]

Serious politicians address serious concerns. They don't pretend they aren't their purview. Moreover, people don't choose to be illegitimate like they choose to scarf down McNuggets or drive drunk.

I respect your right to believe that. I think it's way outside the government's purview. People choose to have have premarital sex which leads to illegitimate children. If the government forced abstinence, it wouldn't be an issue.

[Mister D]

Why? What's this about government forced...well anything?

[Conley]

Why? What's this about government forced...well anything?

I'm saying that if everyone practiced abstinence (by whatever means) then there'd be no illegitimacy. So I believe that the root of the cause is the decision making. You seemed to disagree with that with the example of drunk driving, saying people choose to do so. Drunk driving is a problem because innocents get hurt through the poor decisions of others. Illegitimacy is the same kind of deal, children being hurt because of poor decision-making, in this instance by the parents.

[Mister D]

I'm saying that if everyone practiced abstinence (by whatever means) then there'd be no illegitimacy. So I believe that the root of the cause is the decision making. You seemed to disagree with that with the example of drunk driving, saying people choose to do so. Drunk driving is a problem because innocents get hurt through the poor decisions of others. Illegitimacy is the same kind of deal, children being hurt because of poor decision-making, in this instance by the parents.


That's true of virtually everything. Where's the fire? I just don't understand why some issues are off limits while others (presumably economic ones) are appropriate.

[Conley]

That's true of virtually everything. Where's the fire? I just don't understand why some issues are off limits while others (presumably economic ones) are appropriate.

That was my point originally. Santorum can talk about how we're all a bunch of sinners all he wants, that's his right. I don't want government paying for abstinence programs any more than I want them paying for Planned Parenthood or teaching kids to use condoms or any of that garbage. As far as economic issues, I think the government is way too involved in that too.

[Mister D]

That was my point originally. Santorum can talk about how we're all a bunch of sinners all he wants, that's his right. I don't want government paying for abstinence programs any more than I want them paying for Planned Parenthood or teaching kids to use condoms or any of that garbage. As far as economic issues, I think the government is way too involved in that too.

This is issue specific and it has zero to do with religion. I'm only responding to the illegitimacy article you brought up earlier. I don't think it's inappropriate for a leader to champion certain societal values or to remark on what is obviously a detrimental (indeed disastrous) trend. What do we elect these people to do? Lead, right? So if cultural and economic issues are not appropriate what is appropriate for a national leader to address?