Gates Calls Bin Laden Raid "one of the most corageous calls.... "

[jillian]

"one of the most courageous calls -- decisions -- that I think I've ever seen a president make,"


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/ (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/)

funny how the RWNJ's aren't talking about this.

but for the record, why wouldn't the president have questioned the afghanistan policy he inherited? and why wouldn't he detest karzai?

funny how the so-called liberal media is repeating the rightwing talking points.

[nathanbforrest45]

Yes yes, of course. And Obamalini stated that Joe Biden was one of the greatest statesmen of our era.

[jillian]

Yes yes, of course. And Obamalini stated that Joe Biden was one of the greatest statesmen of our era.

just because a bush appointee isn't thrilled with him makes me no never mind.

and in case you have a problem with spelling, it's President Obama.

i'm so glad that aggravates you.

but this does reinforce my belief that you cut anyone loose who was appointed by your predecessor.

[keymanjim]

and in case you have a problem with spelling, it's President Obama.

i'm so glad that aggravates you.

Irony.

[Libhater]

I wonder if jillian has read or is going to read Bob Gate's book 'DUTY' where he gives a scathing account of Obama's distrust and hatred for America's past military missions and for our current military leaders as they are either retiring in record numbers or are getting fired by Obama.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/book-review-duty-memoirs-of-a-secretary-at-war-by-robert-m-gates/2014/01/07/0d8acad0-634d-11e3-a373-0f9f2d1c2b61_story.html

[Agravan]

just because a bush appointee isn't thrilled with him makes me no never mind.

and in case you have a problem with spelling, it's President Obama.

i'm so glad that aggravates you.

but this does reinforce my belief that you cut anyone loose who was appointed by your predecessor.
SInce you obviously have a problem with spelling AND punctuation, it's President Bush, not "baby bush".

[Chris]

"one of the most courageous calls -- decisions -- that I think I've ever seen a president make,"


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/ (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/)

funny how the RWNJ's aren't talking about this.

but for the record, why wouldn't the president have questioned the afghanistan policy he inherited? and why wouldn't he detest karzai?

funny how the so-called liberal media is repeating the rightwing talking points.


This bit of flame bait--I say so because of reactions to comments on it that follow the OP so far--fails on two accounts.

One, it first elevates Gates into a position of authority you agree with when he praised Obama. That lends credibility to his negative criticism:


"As I sat there, I thought, the president doesn't trust his commander, can’t stand Karzai, doesn’t believe in his own strategy and doesn’t consider the war to be his. For him it’s all about getting out," Gates writes in the 640-page book, which goes on sale Jan. 14. The Los Angeles Times obtained an early copy.

@ Ex-Defense Secretary Robert Gates has harsh words for Obama and Biden (http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-pn-gates-book-obama-20140107,0,1276282.story#ixzz2ppFRtxVg).

So you undermined your defense of Obama.

Second it fails in your poisoning the well of any possible discussion with name calling any who might say something negative as RWNJs.

I suppose all that's left you at this point is to launch into the planned flaming of every response you dislike.

[Codename Section]

It was courageous to what? Go after Bin Laden? Get the fuck out with that shit. The military wanted to go after him before. If they asked for fucking volunteers you'd have the entire military invade and peg that Tango with a million shots.

Courageous would have been sending in the SEALS, SOCOM, or RECON to get the doctor out who helped the CIA instead of letting him rot in a Pakistani prison. Send us after Bin Laden? Fucking hardly.

We've done raids like this before they are just classified. Jesus Christ, people are so clueless about what we do.

This is probably why we get no respect.

[jillian]

It was courageous to what? Go after Bin Laden? Get the fuck out with that shit. The military wanted to go after him before. If they asked for fucking volunteers you'd have the entire military invade and peg that Tango with a million shots.

yeah, but we're talking about Gates' statements and why the nutters are only talking about the president's opinions about afghanistan... which, i suspect you'd be more likely to agree with than gates' statements.


Courageous would have been sending in the SEALS, SOCOM, or RECON to get the doctor out who helped the CIA instead of letting him rot in a Pakistani prison. Send us after Bin Laden? Fucking hardly.

We've done raids like this before they are just classified. Jesus Christ, people are so clueless about what we do.

This is probably why we get no respect.

again, this isn't the thread topic. i understand it's what you want to talk about though.

it's cool.

[Chris]

It was courageous to what? Go after Bin Laden? Get the fuck out with that shit. The military wanted to go after him before. If they asked for fucking volunteers you'd have the entire military invade and peg that Tango with a million shots.

Courageous would have been sending in the SEALS, SOCOM, or RECON to get the doctor out who helped the CIA instead of letting him rot in a Pakistani prison. Send us after Bin Laden? Fucking hardly.

We've done raids like this before they are just classified. Jesus Christ, people are so clueless about what we do.

This is probably why we get no respect.


What did Obama actually do but sit in a war room watching monitors and issuing orders. About as courageous as sending drones out.

[Codename Section]

yeah, but we're talking about Gates' statements and why the nutters are only talking about the president's opinions about afghanistan... which, i suspect you'd be more likely to agree with than gates' statements.


We should not have been in either country, but Afghanistan is one of those countries that makes you sympathize with God's destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. You ask yourself, are there like 50 good people here? Is there enough to not level this place from the sky?

The way women are treated in Afghanistan, girls under 12 being pretty much sold to old men, it's sick that we're over there feeding them money and contributing to the purses of the rich old men buying these child brides.

There is a reason we call it Trashcanistan. I hate that place so badly that if you asked me where I'd rather be I would say that I'd rather spend 2 months in Iraq than 8 hours in Sangin.





again, this isn't the thread topic. i understand it's what you want to talk about though.

it's cool.

Like that stops anyone on here. At least I'm talking about Bin Laden and Afghanistan versus who is a Jew, who's an extremist, David Duke, homos, Lincoln, Jefferson, Phil from Duck Dynasty or whatever else people bring to threads around here.

[Codename Section]

What did Obama actually do but sit in a war room watching monitors and issuing orders. About as courageous as sending drones out.

No. The drones takes courage because your soul's on the line. Most of the time we have shady ass intel for drones. One faction lies about the other to get them knocked out. This we knew he was there. He'd be a coward if he didn't.

Bravery still would have been going back in --I would have volunteered for this--in a special teams raid to get the guy out who gave us intel. He went to jail for helping and all we did was write a strongly worded letter. I would have been fuck this shit and sent in SOCOM, kicked the fucking doors in, put some M4s in their faces and said, open the cell mutherfucker!

Yeh I'm in one of those moods today. :D

[Captain Obvious]

I think this was a tremendously significant event that occurred on the O'bama's watch, probably one of the most significant historical events for our nation.

The fact that bitter RWNJ's will refuse to acknowledge this only shows how pathetically petty, ignorant, miserable and politically meaningless they are.

I'm by far an O'bama critic on many levels but I'm not blinded with petty rage to the point where I cannot acknowledge this as the significant event it was.

If this happened the exact same way but on GW's watch, I can abso-fucking-lutely guarantee that RWNJ's would be singing GW's praises in the streets and bucket carriers from the left would be downplaying it, similar to what's going on here now except reversed.

It's all petty stupidity.

[Mainecoons]

Funny, I seem to recall reports that Obama stalled this decision so long that it was almost too late by the time he got over his angst and made the call.

Gates rips Obama a new a**hole in this book, maybe he thought he needed to throw in a little exaggerated praise to compensate.

[nathanbforrest45]

just because a bush appointee isn't thrilled with him makes me no never mind.

and in case you have a problem with spelling, it's President Obama.

i'm so glad that aggravates you.

but this does reinforce my belief that you cut anyone loose who was appointed by your predecessor.


That is hilarious Jillian. I am supposed to say President Obama but you find it perfectly ok to call the former President bush.

What a creep.

[Codename Section]

I think this was a tremendously significant event that occurred on the O'bama's watch, probably one of the most significant historical events for our nation.

The fact that bitter RWNJ's will refuse to acknowledge this only shows how pathetically petty, ignorant, miserable and politically meaningless they are.

I'm by far an O'bama critic on many levels but I'm not blinded with petty rage to the point where I cannot acknowledge this as the significant event it was.

If this happened the exact same way but on GW's watch, I can abso-fucking-lutely guarantee that RWNJ's would be singing GW's praises in the streets and bucket carriers from the left would be downplaying it, similar to what's going on here now except reversed.

It's all petty stupidity.

Sure they would, but it wouldn't have been courageous for him, either. It's called doing their fucking job. AND it's the one act guaranteed to float you some love.

Now Captain Obvious what about the dude that helped us? We threw him under a bus while jumping for joy and having pat on the back parties. What should Bush or Obama have done about him?

[Chris]

No. The drones takes courage because your soul's on the line. Most of the time we have shady ass intel for drones. One faction lies about the other to get them knocked out. This we knew he was there. He'd be a coward if he didn't.

Bravery still would have been going back in --I would have volunteered for this--in a special teams raid to get the guy out who gave us intel. He went to jail for helping and all we did was write a strongly worded letter. I would have been fuck this shit and sent in SOCOM, kicked the fucking doors in, put some M4s in their faces and said, open the cell mutherfucker!

Yeh I'm in one of those moods today. :D


Oh I don't question the courage of the men who accomplished the mission just that of the CinC behind his desk.


Is that a Glenn Miller In the Mood?

[Captain Obvious]

Sure they would, but it wouldn't have been courageous for him, either. It's called doing their fucking job. AND it's the one act guaranteed to float you some love.

Now @Captain Obvious (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=3) what about the dude that helped us? We threw him under a bus while jumping for joy and having pat on the back parties. What should Bush or Obama have done about him?

Who are you talking about?

[Codename Section]

Who are you talking about?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/shakil-afridi

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/29/shakil-afridi-osama-bin-laden-pakistan-doctor-prison_n_1635753.html

[Captain Obvious]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/shakil-afridi

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/29/shakil-afridi-osama-bin-laden-pakistan-doctor-prison_n_1635753.html

Who threw him under the bus?

We did? If you say "we" did, you don't speak for me - I sure as hell didn't support that.

Based on what I know - and I'm guessing there is more to the story (there's always more) - the guy was made a scapegoat when the US slighted Pakistan by pulling this off under their noses, to appease the Pakistani people. I'm guessing they thought it's better for this guy to suffer than for hundreds or thousands to die in riots or whatever.

How did "we" throw him under the bus, by not sanctioning Pakistan or whatever?

[Codename Section]

Who threw him under the bus?

We did? If you say "we" did, you don't speak for me - I sure as hell didn't support that.

Based on what I know - and I'm guessing there is more to the story (there's always more) - the guy was made a scapegoat when the US slighted Pakistan by pulling this off under their noses, to appease the Pakistani people. I'm guessing they thought it's better for this guy to suffer than for hundreds or thousands to die in riots or whatever.

How did "we" throw him under the bus, by not sanctioning Pakistan or whatever?

Because he helped us he was arrested. We can send in military teams to kill Bin Laden but not arrest this guy? It was a violation of international law to perform the Bin Laden raid but we did it. We do tons of over the border shit, things I can't talk about but everyone in the military reading will nod their heads.

What legitimate contact will help us in the future if we leave them hanging?

[Heyduke]

Conspiracy theory alert;

Afghan president Karzai, Israeli intelligence, Egyptian newspapers, a London-based Arab news magazine, the FBI, Pakistan's Musharraf, Madeleine Albright, etc.etc., all previously claimed that bin Laden died a long time ago from a kidney ailment, among other health issues. To this day, a majority of Pakistanians think the raid was a total fake job, including the residents of Abbotobad

You've got this megalomaniac bin Laden, a total egoist, who hasn't been heard from or claimed credit for anything since 2001.

The crew of the USS Vinson is ordered below deck while they fly his supposed body onboard, supposedly say a prayer, weight his body and dump him at an undisclosed location in the sea. The CIA takes pictures and DNA, and we're asked to take their word at face value for what happened.

Seal Team 6 that did the raid all have confidential identities. We don't know who was part of the mission. But, shortly thereafter, 20 Seal Team members are ordered into an unmaneuverable cargo helicopter and sent into a firefight in Afghanistan. They are all killed.

And then some dude writes a book called No Easy Day, which has about as much credibility as Three Cups of Tea.

Nobody knows what happened, not the conspiracy theorists or the people who swallow the official story at face value. And in this age where even video can be edited and faked, I expect more and more stories like this to be narrated, where nobody actually knows what's real or fake.

[Venus]

What did Obama actually do but sit in a war room watching monitors and issuing orders. About as courageous as sending drones out.

Actually....

Wasn't he in another room playing cards with the secert service while the raid was going on?

[Venus]

Funny, I seem to recall reports that Obama stalled this decision so long that it was almost too late by the time he got over his angst and made the call.

Gates rips Obama a new a**hole in this book, maybe he thought he needed to throw in a little exaggerated praise to compensate.


Or maybe, he didn't want an IRS audit.

[Codename Section]

Actually....

Wasn't he in another room playing cards with the secert service while the raid was going on?

I heard Hillary gave the order. I'd believe it. She has twice the amount of balls he has.

[Venus]

I heard Hillary gave the order. I'd believe it. She has twice the amount of balls he has.

I hadn't heard that one, but it wouldn't surpirse me.

[The Xl]

Too bad that there is no proof that the dude was actually Bin Laden aside from the governments assertion, and then we just threw his ass in the Ocean or whatever.

[Peter1469]

"one of the most courageous calls -- decisions -- that I think I've ever seen a president make,"


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/ (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/)

funny how the RWNJ's aren't talking about this.

but for the record, why wouldn't the president have questioned the afghanistan policy he inherited? and why wouldn't he detest karzai?

funny how the so-called liberal media is repeating the rightwing talking points.

It was in the article that I read from FOX. (Which was probably an AP article). Your CNN link attributes the article to its wire staff- meaning people who copy what AP says.

[Peter1469]

Conspiracy theory alert;

Afghan president Karzai, Israeli intelligence, Egyptian newspapers, a London-based Arab news magazine, the FBI, Pakistan's Musharraf, Madeleine Albright, etc.etc., all previously claimed that bin Laden died a long time ago from a kidney ailment, among other health issues. To this day, a majority of Pakistanians think the raid was a total fake job, including the residents of Abbotobad

You've got this megalomaniac bin Laden, a total egoist, who hasn't been heard from or claimed credit for anything since 2001.

The crew of the USS Vinson is ordered below deck while they fly his supposed body onboard, supposedly say a prayer, weight his body and dump him at an undisclosed location in the sea. The CIA takes pictures and DNA, and we're asked to take their word at face value for what happened.

Seal Team 6 that did the raid all have confidential identities. We don't know who was part of the mission. But, shortly thereafter, 20 Seal Team members are ordered into an unmaneuverable cargo helicopter and sent into a firefight in Afghanistan. They are all killed.

And then some dude writes a book called No Easy Day, which has about as much credibility as Three Cups of Tea.

Nobody knows what happened, not the conspiracy theorists or the people who swallow the official story at face value. And in this age where even video can be edited and faked, I expect more and more stories like this to be narrated, where nobody actually knows what's real or fake.

Seal Team 6 (not real name) has 4 teams. The two operations were manned by different teams.

[jillian]

Seal Team 6 (not real name) has 4 teams. The two operations we manned by different teams.

i know. but i was referring to the RWNJ's on this board who were ranting about the gates' other statements but conveniently left out the one i noted. :)

[Chris]

i know. but i was referring to the RWNJ's on this board who were ranting about the gates' other statements but conveniently left out the one i noted. :)


How is that possible when that was the flame bait of your OP?

You just can't make this stuff up.

[jillian]

How is that possible when that was the flame bait of your OP?

You just can't make this stuff up.

the flame bait is yours, chris.

but good to know that's today's meme.

but here's a hint… no matter how many times you repeat something that's BS… it's still BS.

no matter how many threads you try to derail.

[Chris]

"one of the most courageous calls -- decisions -- that I think I've ever seen a president make,"


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/ (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/)

funny how the RWNJ's aren't talking about this.

but for the record, why wouldn't the president have questioned the afghanistan policy he inherited? and why wouldn't he detest karzai?

funny how the so-called liberal media is repeating the rightwing talking points.


Bump to remind jillian what she said in her OP. Now how can that flame bait be a reaction to others when it was the first post?

[Agravan]

Bump to remind jillian what she said in her OP. Now how can that flame bait be a reaction to others when it was the first post?
Because jillian lives in her own little world, where no sane person dare tread.

[waltky]

Dr. Afridi’s name has come up in numerous pieces of U.S. legislation over recent years...
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/images/smilies/mad.gif
16 Years After 9/11, Doctor Who Helped Find Bin Laden Remains in Pakistan Prison
September 11, 2017 – As the United States marks the 16th anniversary of al-Qaeda’s devastating attack, the Pakistani doctor who helped in the effort to track down Osama bin Laden six years ago remains imprisoned, despite efforts by U.S. lawmakers to condition U.S. aid on his freedom.


On Thursday. the Senate Appropriations Committee passed a FY 2018 spending bill which, once again, withholds $33 million in economic and security assistance to Pakistan until the secretary of state certifies “that Dr. Shakil Afridi has been released from prison and cleared of all charges relating to the assistance provided to the United States in locating Osama bin Laden.” The withheld amount deliberately points to the 33-year prison term to which Afridi was sentenced in May 2012. Although he was convicted on charges unrelated to the hunt for the fugitive terrorist, his supporters in the U.S. Congress and elsewhere have no doubt the jail term is payback for his role in the bin Laden affair. Pakistan was acutely embarrassed by the discovery that the world’s most-wanted terrorist had been able to live, undetected, for years in a house less than half a mile from a top Pakistani military academy, and 70 miles from the capital.

Afridi was arrested several weeks after U.S. Navy SEALS raided the compound in Abbottabad on May 2, 2011 and killed the man held responsible for the deaths of almost 3,000 people killed when hijacked planes were flown into the World Trade Center in New York, the Pentagon, and a field in rural Pennsylvania. U.S. officials later confirmed that Afridi had helped to identify the occupants of the Abbottabad compound by obtaining DNA evidence under the cover of a public vaccination campaign. Leon Panetta, who was CIA director at the time of the raid, told CBS “60 Minutes” in 2012 that Afridi had “helped provide intelligence that was very helpful with regards to this operation.” After being incarcerated for a year, accused originally of treason, Afridi was convicted in a Peshawar tribal tribunal in May 2012 of links to an obscure extremist group.

But his supporters view those charges as trumped up – as did an official Pakistan commission of inquiry, which recommended in 2013 that he be retried, this time for his role in the bin Laden raid. (Reinforcing that impression, Pakistani Law Minister Zahid Hamid told lawmakers in Islamabad last January that Afridi would not be freed since he had collaborated with a foreign intelligence agency in helping to track bin Laden through a fake polio vaccination campaign.) Afridi’s plight has long concerned U.S. lawmakers, and his name has come up in many pieces of appropriation and other legislation over recent years, including the Consolidated Appropriations Act signed into law last May to fund the federal government through the end of September.

The FY 2018 National Defense Authorization Act, which passed the House in July, included a sense of Congress clause calling Afridi “a hero to whom the people of the United States, Pakistan and the world owe a debt of gratitude for his help in finally locating Osama bin Laden before more innocent American, Pakistani and other lives were lost to this terrorist leader.” Afridi’s imprisonment has also been cited in bills seeking Pakistan’s designation as a state-sponsor of terrorism. Shakil Afridi came up during last year’s U.S. presidential campaign, when then Republican nominee Donald Trump said that as president he would get Pakistan to release the jailed doctor “in two minutes,” and observed that the U.S. gives “a lot of money to Pakistan.” Pakistan’s then-interior minister, Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan, retorted that Pakistan was “not a colony” of the U.S., and dismissed U.S. aid to his country as “peanuts.” Since 2001 U.S. taxpayers have contributed more than $33 billion to Pakistan, either in direct aid or as reimbursements for counterterrorism efforts.

Afridi’s imprisonment is one of a host of irritants in Washington’s uneasy relationship with the ostensible ally. In his recently-announced South Asia strategy, President Trump put Pakistan on notice over its troubling behavior, in particular its sheltering of terrorists. Afridi was reportedly one of the topics discussed when National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster met in Washington last April with Pakistan’s finance minister Ishaq Dar, acting in the capacity of an envoy for then-Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. It was expected to feature again in an anticipated Trump-Sharif meeting on the sidelines of a U.S.-Arab-Islamic summit in Riyadh the following month, but instead the two had just a brief handshake. (Sharif’s premiership ended abruptly in July when the Supreme Court disqualified him from office.) One of Pakistan’s numerous critics on Capitol Hill, Rep. Ted Poe (R-Texas), raised Afridi’s plight once again on the House floor last June. “Pakistan claims to be United States’ number one counterterrorism ally, yet they hypocritically hold this hero in a Pakistani prison,” he said. Accusing Pakistan of being “on the wrong side” in the war on terror, Poe said Afridi deserved a medal, not imprisonment.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/16-years-after-911-doctor-who-helped-find-bin-laden-remains-behind

[Tahuyaman]

"one of the most courageous calls -- decisions -- that I think I've ever seen a president make,"


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/ (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/15/gates.cbs.interview/)

funny how the RWNJ's aren't talking about this.

but for the record, why wouldn't the president have questioned the afghanistan policy he inherited? and why wouldn't he detest karzai?

funny how the so-called liberal media is repeating the rightwing talking points.

Lol....