Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For [Archive]

Chris

01-08-2014, 02:56 PM

Rolling Stone's Sad "5 Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For" (http://reason.com/blog/2014/01/04/rolling-stones-5-economic-reforms-millen)

All of Twitter is a-buzzing like a hummingbird's wings about a new, incredibly stupid article in Rolling Stone by Jesse A. Myerson.

...The only thing missing is a call for a light beer that really does taste great and is less filling. Read the whole piece here but as I noted, the real drama with Myerson is happening on Twitter, where's he's been mocked and supported relentlessly since the article, which went live on January 3, was tweeted around by National Review's Charles Cooke.

Like a character in a bad Tom Petty song, Myerson's not backing down and is in fact reveling in the attention, tweeting things such as:

"Drinking scotch. Blocking trolls. It's a merry life."

"Poor me. Writing for Rolling Stone and getting hated on by dunces. Man, I've really let myself go."

"What they don't seem to understand is: I really am very nice and don't want gulags."

"If I have to answer for Soviet gulags, these market/capital twits have to answer for climate collapse, the greatest genocide in history."

That last tweet gives you a sense of Myerson's quality of thought (the "#FULLCOMMUNISM" in his Twitter bio gives you a sense of his political commitments). There's even a #StandWithJesse hashtag, which seems to be equal parts attaboys and flames (e.g. "#StandWithJesse is an ableist hashtag born out of able bodied privilege and contempt for those who can't stand!").

But to me, this episode is not about an ahistorical and already-been-tried-and-failed-countless-times policy agenda. It's about the long decline of Rolling Stone.

<snip RS history>

...Instead you get bullshit bits about what's on Barack Obama's iPod and a 2012 Douglas Brinkley Q&A with Obama that takes butt-kissing into a whole new dimension not yet mappable by science. And a sad-sack story about "Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For" that even Raul Castro would have been embarrassed to publish.

...But the people at the helm of Rolling Stone cannot seemingly even acknowledge that anyone who might disagree with them on, say, the effects of minimum wage laws on the poor, is worth a second thought. All they can do, out of a sense of liberal guilt, is publish radical calls to arm that they must know are ridiculous. Sadly, a magazine that was once required reading for anyone who wanted to know what the younger generation cared about is now a pedantic, insecure, and ultimately ineffective tool of Democratic Party groupthink.

The Xl

01-08-2014, 02:58 PM

More unsustainable government jobs and never ending inflation.

Yay

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 03:11 PM

More unsustainable government jobs and never ending inflation.

Yay

I really don't think they get us. All of their "offers" don't mesh with our independent spirit and moral leanings.

I can be a geoist and a libertarian and "take back the land".

I can make my own jobs and go underground market. 100% easier that way.

I can save for myself using bitcoin or litecoin and not deal with the government destroying it through currency inflation.

I don't want everything owned by everybody. Everybody also includes Rush Limbaugh.

A PUBLIC bank? I want competing currency and my ability to be a regulation-free banker using social credits, barter, and competing currency.

Who are these dinosaurs at Rolling Stone?

The problem is that most of the people in charge of the country or writing this grew up in an age without a computer, without craigslist, without bitcoin, and have no idea what we're about.
The Xl how many of your friends want Big Government or handouts?

Mainecoons

01-08-2014, 03:14 PM

This has already been enacted by conservatives?

1. Guaranteed Work for Everybody

2. Social Security for All

3. Take Back The Land

4. Make Everything Owned by Everybody

5. A Public Bank in Every State

You really are coming up with some gems today, Nic. I don't suppose you'd care to explain how you've concluded that much of this has been enacted at all, let alone by conservatives.

Are Marxists conservatives to you? That would explain a lot.

killianr1

01-08-2014, 03:17 PM

Read it first before going all Fox-wacky. Much of this has already been put in place by conservatives... :wink:

I would get those screws checked. I think more than one is loose.

pjohns

01-08-2014, 03:19 PM

Would you say these are the ends of progressivism?

I would say they are the ends of Marxism. (Apparently, the poster of the OP is unabashed in his support for Marxist thinking.)

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 03:19 PM

This has already been enacted by conservatives?

You really are coming up with some gems today, Nic. I don't suppose you'd care to explain how you've concluded that much of this has been enacted at all, let alone by conservatives.

Are Marxists conservatives to you? That would explain a lot.[/COLOR]

George Bush was a progressive.

The Xl

01-08-2014, 03:23 PM

I really don't think they get us. All of their "offers" don't mesh with our independent spirit and moral leanings.

I can be a geoist and a libertarian and "take back the land".

I can make my own jobs and go underground market. 100% easier that way.

I can save for myself using bitcoin or litecoin and not deal with the government destroying it through currency inflation.

I don't want everything owned by everybody. Everybody also includes Rush Limbaugh.

A PUBLIC bank? I want competing currency and my ability to be a regulation-free banker using social credits, barter, and competing currency.

Who are these dinosaurs at Rolling Stone?

The problem is that most of the people in charge of the country or writing this grew up in an age without a computer, without craigslist, without bitcoin, and have no idea what we're about.
@The Xl (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=865) how many of your friends want Big Government or handouts?

Most of my friends are minorities in their 20s from Harlem New York and none of them want anything other than their dollar to not be totally useless, and for the cops to stop looking at them and stopping them.

patrickt

01-08-2014, 03:26 PM

1. Guaranteed Work for Everybody
Response: But what if the work isn't what they want?
2. Social Security for All
Response: What does that mean? Who doesn't get social security now?
3. Take Back The Land
What does that mean? I get to find some land I want and take it?
4. Make Everything Owned by Everybody
Response: That is possibly the most stupid of the list.
5. A Public Bank in Every State
Response: Why? No one will have anything and everyone will have everything and pigs will fly.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/five-economic-reforms-millennials-should-be-fighting-for-20140103#ixzz2pptdIw1g

A communist from the OWS movement is making demands again and Nic is excited.

The Xl

01-08-2014, 03:28 PM

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 03:36 PM

I don't think you progressive understand what you do to the poor. How do they save when inflation renders savings meaningless, long term? How do they get ahead when they're living paycheck to paycheck?

You guys may be well intentioned, at least, some liberal constituents, but their is no such thing as a well intentioned nuclear weapon.

Yes, well-intentioned, but ineffective. They feel if they have good intentions that's what counts, in spite of the results. The Democrats are able to get away with this because they point at Republicans and say (truthfully) that they're worse.

While it is true that Republicans are worse that's no reason to support either.

Those five things are communism and require totalitarian force to accomplish. Eat the rich sounds nice when you see those fucks living large off our corpses but if I had the choice between freedom and letting rich fucks live, or living under a totalitarian state with my needs taken care of I'm going with freedom.

I've done the latter and it wasn't awesome or anything. I prefer what I'm doing now.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 03:43 PM

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 03:45 PM

I would like the answer to that one as well. Maybe by some convoluted spin but none of those are conservative ideals.

The article contains some Republican states which have enacted some of these things.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 03:47 PM

nic34

01-08-2014, 03:51 PM

Would you say these are the ends of progressivism?

I don't get your well poisoning partisanship.

Because some don't get it.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 03:52 PM

The article contains some Republican states which have enacted some of these things.

North Dakota is the only state listed. It even states ONLY NORTH DAKOTA. What other states are listed under the Some Republican States banner?

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 03:54 PM

Sounds remarkably like Hitlers National Socialist Party platform in Munich. Do we kill the Jews again or do we pick another group to blame for all our woes?

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 04:00 PM

Right out of the communist manifesto!

The thing is there are several things that you have to do. Nic knows that you are going to have to kill the wealthy to take there land, business and money. That money will not be returned tot he poor but given to the ruling class.

Now the people that create growth are gone. and you have the middle class and the dregs

The middle class will become the working poor and the poor will be murdered as they have become a burden on society.

You are left with the few very elite and the workers bees that barely have an existence.

That is the dream world that progressives are striving for!

nic34

01-08-2014, 04:04 PM

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 04:04 PM

Now here is what they should be fighting for.

#1 a 10 to 20 % flat tax with a balanced budget amendment.

#2 the return to the written constitution and States rights.

#3 that abolition of the current SS system and the phasing in of an investment system that produces wealth instead of poverty. Not likely that they will see SS benefits anyway

#4 The freeze in hiring and spending in the government and the abolition of any and all departments not authorized by the constitution

#5 the end to earmark spending and government intervention into free ente prize!

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:05 PM

I don't believe the leaders of these progressive movements are stupid people. I don't believe they are "well intentioned". I believe they know exactly what they are doing and are doing so precisely because it will drive more people into poverty and dependency on the government. This is their aim, the control of the "masses" because in their opinion the "masses are asses" and cannot be trusted to take care of themselves.

There are many levels to this game. At the very top are bankers and corporations who exist at a global level and are untouchable. They want economic oligopoly. Below them are their puppet masters, and in this you are correct, they are not well-intentioned and know what they are doing with their policies and votes. But below them are voters, nice people like the OP who wants a life where everyone has food, shelter, medical care, etc.

He is not wrong in this. We are all humans on the same planet, intertwined. Everyone should have the ability to eat, have shelter, and care. Our modern system has removed the power to live off the land, which is why I am a libertarian but also a geoist.

I agree with the goal, but not how to get there. You can achieve these same things without force, brutality and everything that comes with government through education and mutual aid.

I'm doing it. My friend has a small house, a small plot of land, is part of a medishare, and has electricity because he joined a group of people who accepted his talents as currency. It can be done. If we are so insidious, we 1%rs, only thinking for ourselves I would have said "Fuck Tedz" and left him behind.

It takes a return to spirituality (no, not necessarily religion) to get there.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 04:06 PM

As I expected, most here didn't read the piece. It wasn't written by "Rolling Stone" it was written by Jesse Myerson, a millennial himself.

And the analysis by many here is also predictable... the same commie stuff that Fox came up with.

Nevermind considering the alternatives offered to replace welfare, food stamps, and the old age system of medicare we have now... naw, we're just going to dissmiss this commie crap out of hand just like the Fox morons did.

No one read that states like Alaska and N. Dakota already do some of this, but by golly gee, it actually works, without involving the big bad federal government.

Naw, I'M the one who's PARTISAN.

Screw it. Done here.

Good
Because it matters not who said it its still socialism and statism and designed to destroy any vestige of freedom we may think we have.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 04:10 PM

There are many levels to this game. At the very top are bankers and corporations who exist at a global level and are untouchable. They want economic oligopoly. Below them are their puppet masters, and in this you are correct, they are not well-intentioned and know what they are doing with their policies and votes. But below them are voters, nice people like the OP who wants a life where everyone has food, shelter, medical care, etc.

He is not wrong in this. We are all humans on the same planet, intertwined. Everyone should have the ability to eat, have shelter, and care. Our modern system has removed the power to live off the land, which is why I am a libertarian but also a geoist.

I agree with the goal, but not how to get there. You can achieve these same things without force, brutality and everything that comes with government through education and mutual aid.

I'm doing it. My friend has a small house, a small plot of land, is part of a medishare, and has electricity because he joined a group of people who accepted his talents as currency. It can be done. If we are so insidious, we 1%rs, only thinking for ourselves I would have said "Fuck Tedz" and left him behind.

It takes a return to spirituality (no, not necessarily religion) to get there.

I said the leaders. There many in the folds that are true believers without understanding what they actually believe. Its all well and good that you are doing what you are doing but I don't want to do that. So, how do you get me to do it except by brute force? I don't care what you do as long as you don't force me to do the same. You on the other hand want everyone to do what you are doing and are willing to do what is necessary to see it happen.

I know, I know you will bellow that you don't want to force anyone to do anything but ultimately that is the only way you can accomplish your goals, like it or not.

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:11 PM

As I expected, most here didn't read the piece. It wasn't written by "Rolling Stone" it was written by Jesse Myerson, a millennial himself.

And the analysis by many here is also predictable... the same commie stuff that Fox came up with.

Nevermind considering the alternatives offered to replace welfare, food stamps, and the old age system of medicare we have now... naw, we're just going to dissmiss this commie crap out of hand just like the Fox morons did.

No one read that states like Alaska and N. Dakota already do some of this, but by golly gee, it actually works, without involving the big bad federal government.

Naw, I'M the one who's PARTISAN.

Screw it. Done here.
nic34

I did read it. I told the individual who asked about Republicans which states did it. I know who he is, he's an OWS. While I respect the antistate of the OWS group, I don't agree that government is the answer, ie "reforms".

I agree with the ones that say tear it all down.

Don't be disheartened because I don't agree with your method, because I agree with YOU.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 04:11 PM

Living off the land. Just what does that mean? How does 300 million Americans "live off the land" much less the billions of souls on this planet?

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:18 PM

Living off the land. Just what does that mean? How does 300 million Americans "live off the land" much less the billions of souls on this planet?

This is another topic that I would love to discuss more fully in its own thread. If I build it, will you come?

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:20 PM

I said the leaders. There many in the folds that are true believers without understanding what they actually believe. Its all well and good that you are doing what you are doing but I don't want to do that. So, how do you get me to do it except by brute force? I don't care what you do as long as you don't force me to do the same. You on the other hand want everyone to do what you are doing and are willing to do what is necessary to see it happen.

I know, I know you will bellow that you don't want to force anyone to do anything but ultimately that is the only way you can accomplish your goals, like it or not.

Nope. I share a good thing and people want to do it, too. No force is necessary. It's like eating an ice cream cone in public and enjoying yourself. People want ice cream after that.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 04:20 PM

This is another topic that I would love to discuss more fully in its own thread. If I build it, will you come?

Will there be cookies???? :)

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:20 PM

North Dakota is the only state listed. It even states ONLY NORTH DAKOTA. What other states are listed under the Some Republican States banner?

Keep reading, Alaska is also in the article.

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:21 PM

Will there be cookies???? :)

I'm cheap. There will be pictures of cookies, tho.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 04:22 PM

I'm cheap. There will be pictures of cookies, tho.

All the better I could stand to loose a little weight

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 04:23 PM

This is another topic that I would love to discuss more fully in its own thread. If I build it, will you come?

I just want an answer to the statement you made. How does 300 million people "live off the land" I don't necessarily want to comment because frankly I think that is an impossibility but for the true believer no amount of logic will sway their thoughts. So, just tell me, what exactly does "living off the land" mean? Even if you are speaking of a kibbutz or commune type arrangement ultimately some entity owns the "farm".

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 04:24 PM

Nope. I share a good thing and people want to do it, too. No force is necessary. It's like eating an ice cream cone in public and enjoying yourself. People want ice cream after that.

So, where does the ice cream come from? Do you make it yourself? Where does the milk and sugar and vanilla come from? Do you milk the cow, grow the cane and the vanilla beans?

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 04:26 PM

Keep reading, Alaska is also in the article.

Under which part? I read it and didn't see it. Help me out here. But even then two "Republican" states out of 50 is only 4 percent of the entire county. And population wise its probably less than a half a percent.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 04:28 PM

So, where does the ice cream come from? Do you make it yourself? Where does the milk and sugar and vanilla come from? Do you milk the cow, grow the cane and the vanilla beans?

It actually could be done but not the 40 acres and a mule way. But there are those that would provide food and those that would provide commodities. And while you are right that things like Sugar Cain is limited in the USA Beets are not and most of the sugar here in the this country account for most of the sugar anyway.

The problem still comes in the form of security! But I do like the return to individual freedoms

Chris

01-08-2014, 04:29 PM

I would say they are the ends of Marxism. (Apparently, the poster of the OP is unabashed in his support for Marxist thinking.)

I doubt it actually. He may be well versed in it, given years of public schooling, but be unaware the source. You see progressives/liberals arguing things like Marx's extortion theory in the same breath they denounce Marx. --Sort of hate the sinner but love the sin.

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:30 PM

I just want an answer to the statement you made. How does 300 million people "live off the land" I don't necessarily want to comment because frankly I think that is an impossibility but for the true believer no amount of logic will sway their thoughts. So, just tell me, what exactly does "living off the land" mean? Even if you are speaking of a kibbutz or commune type arrangement ultimately some entity owns the "farm".

Do you realize how much land exists? There are 2.3 billion acres in the United States alone.

Chris

01-08-2014, 04:30 PM

George Bush was a progressive.

Most neocons and social cons are.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 04:32 PM

It actually could be done but not the 40 acres and a mule way. But there are those that would provide food and those that would provide commodities. And while you are right that things like Sugar Cain is limited in the USA Beets are not and most of the sugar here in the this country account for most of the sugar anyway.

The problem still comes in the form of security! But I do like the return to individual freedoms

Anything can work on a small enough basis as long as you always had complete agreement of the participants but you are not a stupid person and you know that is not going to happen. In order for this to be everything would have to be on the barter system. How long before you realize that hey, perhaps I can "sell" my beets to the sugar maker and since I don't want sugar I can use that money to buy clothes instead. No matter if you use "money" or some other medium of exchange ultimately it will take on the aspects of a monetary system.

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:33 PM

Anything can work on a small enough basis as long as you always had complete agreement of the participants but you are not a stupid person and you know that is not going to happen. In order for this to be everything would have to be on the barter system. How long before you realize that hey, perhaps I can "sell" my beets to the sugar maker and since I don't want sugar I can use that money to buy clothes instead. No matter if you use "money" or some other medium of exchange ultimately it will take on the aspects of a monetary system.

I am not against "currency". I'm against the government's monopoly on it.

Chris

01-08-2014, 04:33 PM

Because some don't get it.

Some don't get what, nic. Oldest cop out in the book, you don't get it. Do you? And if you do, can you explain it?

Chris

01-08-2014, 04:36 PM

As I expected, most here didn't read the piece. It wasn't written by "Rolling Stone" it was written by Jesse Myerson, a millennial himself.

And the analysis by many here is also predictable... the same commie stuff that Fox came up with.

Nevermind considering the alternatives offered to replace welfare, food stamps, and the old age system of medicare we have now... naw, we're just going to dissmiss this commie crap out of hand just like the Fox morons did.

No one read that states like Alaska and N. Dakota already do some of this, but by golly gee, it actually works, without involving the big bad federal government.

Naw, I'M the one who's PARTISAN.

Screw it. Done here.

As a partisan you do seem to see everything in terms of partisanship. Some of us are well outside that one-dimensional left-right mode of thinking, nic.

You're done before you even begin to discuss it--whatever it is that no one but you gets.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 04:36 PM

Do you realize how much land exists? There are 2.3 billion acres in the United States alone.

And?? I own about 7 acres of that totally and I don't wish to share with anyone.

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:38 PM

So, where does the ice cream come from? Do you make it yourself? Where does the milk and sugar and vanilla come from? Do you milk the cow, grow the cane and the vanilla beans?

I would care for my own basic necessities as best I could and engage in commerce or trade with others for other things I wanted to needed just as I do now.

Why do you think people wouldn't trade without government? I seem to recall Captain John Smith and the pilgrims both trading with the Indians did they not?

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:39 PM

And?? I own about 7 acres of that totally and I don't wish to share with anyone.

Why would you have to? Wouldn't you be working those acres? I'm not a collectivist, you realize this yes? I'm a geoist.

Chris

01-08-2014, 04:41 PM

There are many levels to this game. At the very top are bankers and corporations who exist at a global level and are untouchable. They want economic oligopoly. Below them are their puppet masters, and in this you are correct, they are not well-intentioned and know what they are doing with their policies and votes. But below them are voters, nice people like the OP who wants a life where everyone has food, shelter, medical care, etc.

He is not wrong in this. We are all humans on the same planet, intertwined. Everyone should have the ability to eat, have shelter, and care. Our modern system has removed the power to live off the land, which is why I am a libertarian but also a geoist.

I agree with the goal, but not how to get there. You can achieve these same things without force, brutality and everything that comes with government through education and mutual aid.

I'm doing it. My friend has a small house, a small plot of land, is part of a medishare, and has electricity because he joined a group of people who accepted his talents as currency. It can be done. If we are so insidious, we 1%rs, only thinking for ourselves I would have said "Fuck Tedz" and left him behind.

It takes a return to spirituality (no, not necessarily religion) to get there.

The imagery of your metaphor doesn't work as you have the string-pulling puppet masters underneath the corporations and banks. Let's just say they--governments and corporations--are in it together, exchanging wealth and power, that they take from the rest of us.

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 04:49 PM

The imagery of your metaphor doesn't work as you have the string-pulling puppet masters underneath the corporations and banks. Let's just say they--governments and corporations--are in it together, exchanging wealth and power, that they take from the rest of us.

They are underneath the banks. Tell me how many billions it takes to become elected.

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 04:52 PM

1. Guaranteed Work for Everybody

2. Social Security for All

3. Take Back The Land

4. Make Everything Owned by Everybody

5. A Public Bank in Every State

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/five-economic-reforms-millennials-should-be-fighting-for-20140103#ixzz2pptdIw1g

Read it first before going all Fox-wacky. Much of this has already been put in place by conservatives... :wink:

1. Abolish all birth privileges: inheritance, trust funds, and living off an allowance in college. Also, disqualify from holding elective or appointed public office anyone whose parent held public office. Imagine if pro athletes had the right to pass on their positions to their sons and you will realize what damage is done to a country run by birth and not by worth.

2. Eliminate the supremacy of the Constitution. Treat it as a temporary start-up document to be superseded by all subsequent legislation. The fact that we have to ask whether a proposed policy is Constitutional instead of simply whether it is good for the country proves that the Constitution is not good for the country.

3. Pay a high salary to those who qualify to go to college. The present system is childish, depressing, and insulting. It is class-biased indentured servitude and discourages the talented from studying. The no-talent brown-noses and no-talent rich kids who endure it drag the economy down. Just like birth privileges, it puts inferior people in superior positions.

4. Eliminate conservation. We have barely scratched the surface of the earth and are centuries away from anything beginning to run out. Environmentalism is a false-flag form of Right Wing hoarding and the consequent price-gouging. No species worth saving is endangered. Pollution is like spitting in the ocean and also kills viruses and stops epidemics.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 04:55 PM

I would care for my own basic necessities as best I could and engage in commerce or trade with others for other things I wanted to needed just as I do now.

Why do you think people wouldn't trade without government? I seem to recall Captain John Smith and the pilgrims both trading with the Indians did they not?

I never said they need government. I said they need some medium of exchange. You seem to merely want to take what is there regardless of who owns what already. If I am misreading that please let me know but of those millions and billions of acres you do really 99.9% of them are owned by someone or some group of someones. Do you take the land away from those who currently own them and do what with them?

Chloe

01-08-2014, 04:56 PM

Chris

01-08-2014, 04:59 PM

They are underneath the banks. Tell me how many billions it takes to become elected.

That may have been true prior to the 16th amendment, but since the banksters in their rent seeking are at the beck and call of politicians.

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 05:00 PM

More unsustainable government jobs and never ending inflation.

Yay

Unsustainable? The wages circulate in the economy, every exchange creating a tax base. It winds up being tax free because the expense comes back to the government all along the line. When the 1%'s Bankensteins get it, they just sit on it until they can invest it in a jackpot. It's like not throwing the ball until you can get a receiver in the end zone.

Heyduke

01-08-2014, 05:01 PM

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 05:03 PM

Unsustainable? The wages circulate in the economy, every exchange creating a tax base. It winds up being tax free because the expense comes back to the government all along the line. When the 1%'s Bankensteins get it, they just sit on it until they can invest it in a jackpot. It's like not throwing the ball until you can get a receiver in the end zone.

So why is it that when politicians create the environment for investing??? that the 1% invest and create jobs and wealth for everyone? and when they create the socialism that you are talking about they hide it in other countries in tax shelters?

That is what confuses me!

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 05:06 PM

These aren't even reforms. They are end results or outcomes. Even if these outcomes were desirable, it's a common fallacy of unrefined youthful idealism to think that you can just pass a law that guarantees everyone a job (for example), and think you're going to end up with a desirable outcome.

Sheesh, while were at it let's pass a reform against earthquakes and meteor strikes.

Actually under there system you do want a Mc Job, why the hell would you want to work any harder than that. You get the same compensation.

This is what socialist do not understand if I don't get more you sure the hell are not going to get me to work any harder than I absolutely have to!

I do not own and run my businesses for the fun of it. If you say nope everyone is the same, they are closed tomorrow!

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 05:07 PM

I really don't think they get us. All of their "offers" don't mesh with our independent spirit and moral leanings.

I can be a geoist and a libertarian and "take back the land".

I can make my own jobs and go underground market. 100% easier that way.

I can save for myself using bitcoin or litecoin and not deal with the government destroying it through currency inflation.

I don't want everything owned by everybody.

A PUBLIC bank? I want competing currency and my ability to be a regulation-free banker using social credits, barter, and competing currency.

Who are these dinosaurs at Rolling Stone?

The problem is that most of the people in charge of the country or writing this grew up in an age without a computer, without craigslist, without bitcoin, and have no idea what we're about.

There's not much difference between a rugged individualist and a raghead. You'll wind up a bandit after your fantasies fail to pan out. That's why the children of the rich are terrified of having to do it on their own instead of by handouts from Daddy's Money. They know how foolish the Ayn Rand cult is.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 05:08 PM

There's not much difference between a rugged individualist and a raghead. You'll wind up a bandit after your fantasies fail to pan out. That's why the children of the rich are terrified of having to do it on their own instead of by handouts from Daddy's Money. They know how foolish the Ayn Rand cult is.

How do you take what I have earned and not let me pass it on to my family and after I have earned enough to live my life??? why would I keep working!

Mr. Freeze

01-08-2014, 05:12 PM

I never said they need government. I said they need some medium of exchange. You seem to merely want to take what is there regardless of who owns what already. If I am misreading that please let me know but of those millions and billions of acres you do really 99.9% of them are owned by someone or some group of someones. Do you take the land away from those who currently own them and do what with them?

First there is enough public lands to distribute if we chose, but I think if you can defend your property, if you're working your property, it's yours. If you buy it and leave it I'll be honest I hope someone squats on it and uses it to grow food.

Jefferson, Locke, and Paine were all geoists before they were Georgians, but they also all believed in a God that sends rain and provides sunlight and created land that will outlast its alleged owners.

In short, I own the improvements to the land I work. The land will be there long after I'm gone. I don't own the land.

Chris

01-08-2014, 05:16 PM

These aren't even reforms. They are end results or outcomes. Even if these outcomes were desirable, it's a common fallacy of unrefined youthful idealism to think that you can just pass a law that guarantees everyone a job (for example), and think you're going to end up with a desirable outcome.

Sheesh, while were at it let's pass a reform against earthquakes and meteor strikes.

True that, and it speaks to what nathan said earlier about these progressive types being all about good intentions, without a clue to the means, or the consequences of such a Utopian paradise.

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 05:18 PM

That money will not be returned tot he poor but given to the ruling class.

Now the people that create growth are gone. and you have the middle class and the dregs

The middle class will become the working poor and the poor will be murdered as they have become a burden on society.

You are left with the few very elite and the workers bees that barely have an existence.

That is the dream world that progressives are striving for!

No, it is the real world that the 1% live in now. I know you dream about being adopted by some billionaire, but your imaginary foster father's own class's spoiled-rotten brats have turned him off on having any more sons.

Heyduke

01-08-2014, 05:22 PM

National Socialist Workers Party. I forget, did they have an acronym?

Peter1469

01-08-2014, 05:30 PM

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 05:48 PM

This is another topic that I would love to discuss more fully in its own thread. If I build it, will you come?

You want us to live like cavemen. A primitive lifestyle has best been described as "nasty, brutal, and short."

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 05:52 PM

Will there be cookies???? :)

No, because then you'd need a goddamn GUBMINT to make sure the cookies weren't filled with sawdust, dirt, and insect parts!

CAVEat Emptor is a sound-alike slogan for the political science of cavemen. The Unabomber also lived that lifestyle, so I guess what I'm saying is that kooks don't give out cookies.

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 05:57 PM

So, where does the ice cream come from? Do you make it yourself? Where does the milk and sugar and vanilla come from? Do you milk the cow, grow the cane and the vanilla beans?

No, the primitives steal all that from their neighbors. The chief thief becomes a capitalist and hires other people to steal for him, taking the lion's share himself.

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 06:13 PM

So why is it that when politicians create the environment for investing that the 1% invest and create jobs and wealth for everyone? and when they create the socialism that you are talking about they hide it in other countries in tax shelters? That is what confuses me! Saying that the 1% create jobs is like saying that vampires create blood. The only thing they create is want-ads for suckers who want to get their blood sucked. They buy rope from us and use it to hang us. I'd rather be well hung, not well hanged. As for hiding it offshore, we just bomb a few of those banks and they'll hand over the pirates' treasure chests. How pathetic that you want your Masters' enemies to swallow your line that we should become pacifists. Brass knuckles will smash your bells and whistles.

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 06:20 PM

How do you take what I have earned and not let me pass it on to my family and after I have earned enough to live my life??? why would I keep working!

Why would we want a Greedhead looter like you to keep working?

And quit thinking it's all about you and your childish demands. It's about setting up your children halfway to the goal line instead of letting those with the most natural talent have a level playing field.

The Xl

01-08-2014, 06:22 PM

Why would we want a Greedhead looter like you to keep working?

And quit thinking it's all about you and your childish demands. It's about setting up your children halfway to the goal line instead of letting those with the most natural talent have a level playing field.

What gives you the right to anyones wealth?

You want something? Go get it with your ability, don't steal it, and stop being envious of other peoples accomplishments.

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 06:33 PM

National Socialist Workers Party. I forget, did they have an acronym?

GOP is the acronym you're looking for. Doesn't "government of the people" sound socialist to you? Since you call everybody who doesn't agree with your crackpot ideas "socialist," I'm sure you have to hate the sound of GOP. Maybe we should censor out the Gettysburg Address. Then people will think that GOP stands for Greedheads on Parole or God's Only Party.

Government by the People? That's even worse, it's democracy or "mob rule."

Government for the people? Why can't the people do it on their own instead of having the GUBMINT do it for them!

Oh, I forgot too. In your Right-handed Stalinist revision of history, Lincoln was a Commie!

Heyduke

01-08-2014, 06:37 PM

GOP is the acronym you're looking for. Doesn't "government of the people" sound socialist to you? Since you call everybody who doesn't agree with your crackpot ideas "socialist," I'm sure you have to hate the sound of GOP. Maybe we should censor out the Gettysburg Address. Then people will think that GOP stands for Greedheads on Parole or God's Only Party.

Government by the People? That's even worse, it's democracy or "mob rule."

Government for the people? Why can't the people do it on their own instead of having the GUBMINT do it for them!

Oh, I forgot too. In your Right-handed Stalinist revision of history, Lincoln was a Commie!

I'm not a Republican. I'm a libertarian. We're taking over this country! aaaaaand then we're going to leave you alone.

I think you need to re-Google National Socialist Workers Party

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 07:04 PM

What gives you the right to anyones wealth?

You want something? Go get it with your ability, don't steal it, and stop being envious of other peoples accomplishments.

America once belonged to the King of England and was about to be parceled out to his snooty aristocrats, the kind of people you call "successes." We "stole" it from him because we were "envious," I guess you'd say. To be consistent, you'd also have to tell us to give it back to the present British royal family, who would have inherited it, since inheritance is sacred and only the "jealous" have a problem with preppy privileges.

Well, we real Americans are not going to give it back. Instead, you Bootlickers of the Big Boys should go back to the crumbling castles of Europe where you belong and eat the dust and worms left by the guillotine-fodder. More and more Americans despise your Masters and will start listening to the same solution the real Tea Party took in Boston. But I guess in your unAmerican mind, those people have been "socialist" for over 200 years.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 07:12 PM

No, it is the real world that the 1% live in now. I know you dream about being adopted by some billionaire, but your imaginary foster father's own class's spoiled-rotten brats have turned him off on having any more sons.

I know that you don't think that people can make money but 80% of the millionaire in the USA are first generation, including myself!

I do not need to have someone adopt me,, I went out and earned it myself. And believe me up until my late 20's I thought just like you do, until someone took the time to show me how wealth is created. You can do it too?

So how do you confiscate the wealth and what incentive would anyone have to continue working and running a business after the earned enough money to live on?

Bye the Bye there is a way to have everyone wealthy? even those that earn minimum wage? But it requires getting rid of the entitlement programs

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 07:14 PM

The Xl

01-08-2014, 07:16 PM

America once belonged to the King of England and was about to be parceled out to his snooty aristocrats, the kind of people you call "successes." We "stole" it from him because we were "envious," I guess you'd say. To be consistent, you'd also have to tell us to give it back to the present British royal family, who would have inherited it, since inheritance is sacred and only the "jealous" have a problem with preppy privileges.

Well, we real Americans are not going to give it back. Instead, you Bootlickers of the Big Boys should go back to the crumbling castles of Europe where you belong eat the dust left by the guillotine-fodder. More and more Americans despise your Masters and will start listening to the same solution the real Tea Party took in Boston. But I guess in your unAmerican mind, those people have been "socialist" for over 200 years.

I'm all for ending cronyism. If there were a reform, and the money that was illegitimately earned, counterfeited,or subsidized was taken away from huge corporations, or whoever was the benefactor of said theft, great, I'd be all for that. Money earned legitimately though? No, that's not yours or anyone elses, comrade.

nathanbforrest45

01-08-2014, 07:17 PM

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 07:19 PM

I'm not a Republican. I'm a libertarian. We're taking over this country! aaaaaand then we're going to leave you alone.

I think you need to re-Google National Socialist Workers Party

A tiny cult of spoiled and conceited crackpots isn't going to take over the country I fought for, which your privileged Heir Guardsmen types never did. Your real goal is to take over the Greedheads On Parole party, which will destroy it forever. Everyone knows you're just Republicans who have come out of the closet and shown us the true political perversion previous Republican Reptiles have always tried to hide. Why do you think sane Republicans are trying to destroy you for foolishly giving the game away?

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 07:20 PM

I am absolutely astonished at the ignorance of so many posters. Ignorant of history, ignorant of human nature, ignorant of common sense.

Tell me, all of you anarchist and "geoist" out there, just how will society function without a system of rules and ways to enforce those rules. You may not like the idea of "government" but I assure you a society without some government is nothing more than rule by brute force.

Explain to me please just how your governmentless society function? Please don't tell me that people can trade without any input from government, it just ain't going to happen

I agree 100% the rule of law would be replaced with the rule of man!

The founding fathers had it right and we have let it slip away, a very limited federal government with a group of smaller state government responsible for most of the rules and regulations!

As it is now we are fast approaching Tyranny

The Xl

01-08-2014, 07:21 PM

A tiny cult of spoiled and conceited crackpots aren't going to take over the country I fought for, unlike your privileged Heir Guardsmen types. Your real goal is to take over the Greedheads On Parole party, which will destroy it forever. Everyone knows you're just Republicans who have come out of the closet and shown us the true political perversion previous Republican Reptiles have always tried to hide. Why do you think sane Republicans are trying to destroy you for foolishly giving the game away?

You fought in Vietnam, no? You didn't fight for your country or its citizens.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 07:22 PM

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 07:28 PM

I know that you don't think that people can make money but 80% of the millionaire in the USA are first generation, including myself!

I do not need to have someone adopt me,, I went out and earned it myself. And believe me up until my late 20's I thought just like you do, until someone took the time to show me how wealth is created. You can do it too?

So how do you confiscate the wealth and what incentive would anyone have to continue working and running a business after the earned enough money to live on?

Bye the Bye there is a way to have everyone wealthy? even those that earn minimum wage? But it requires getting rid of the entitlement programs

Anyone who believes in setting up his children in positions far above what they would have earned on their own must have gotten his own money through luck or cheating. I'm sure there are teams that win against a prep school that is entitled to start every inning with the bases loaded, but real men would rather break the preppies' legs.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 07:33 PM

Anyone who believes in setting up his children in positions far above what they would have earned on their own must have gotten his own money through luck or cheating. I'm sure there are teams that win against a prep school that is entitled to start every inning with the bases loaded, but real men would rather break the preppies' legs.

Feeding your children spoils the hell out of them as well.

My son went to school got a scholarship got his education, got a job as a biologist with the state and worked for 5 years, just like we agreed?

Now he wants to set up his own company helping land owners create the habitat and sustainable environment on there properties.

He has all of the know how and the drive and desire? he needs about a million in capital to get the equipment. He want to work for the average Joe instead of just the rich folk, so he can't charge as much as the people are charging the rich people so it would make it impossible, unless I set him up then he will have a great company that will be able to replace items as they were out and he can help a lot of those middle class people enjoy and get more our of there property's

So you think this is a terrible thing? I don't!

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 07:36 PM

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 07:38 PM

So why is it that the people in socialist countries have a lower standard of living?

PS the founding fathers were in large part RICH!

Again you show how simple-minded you are when you call everyone who is not a Greedhead fanatic a "socialist." And the Founding Fodder who wrote your anti-democratic Constitution were lawyers for the 1%, so don't expect me to look at them like Christians look at the Twelve Apostles. You also worship the Constitution like Fundamentalists worship the Bible.

By the way, if you get away with calling the Capitaliban's infidels "Commies," why can't the rest of us call you "Nazis"? Your claim that Hitler was a Leftist is pathetically ridiculous. The Nazis gassed every Leftist they could get their claws on. But I can understand why your cult wants to hide the greatest mistake the Right Wing ever made.

Chris

01-08-2014, 07:38 PM

I am absolutely astonished at the ignorance of so many posters. Ignorant of history, ignorant of human nature, ignorant of common sense.

Tell me, all of you anarchist and "geoist" out there, just how will society function without a system of rules and ways to enforce those rules. You may not like the idea of "government" but I assure you a society without some government is nothing more than rule by brute force.

Explain to me please just how your governmentless society function? Please don't tell me that people can trade without any input from government, it just ain't going to happen

Anarchy doesn't mean chaos but voluntary governance without coercive government. Most of that is in place with social traditions, institutions and norms.

What government input is needed for people to trade? What is it government inputs? It, in fact, takes.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 07:42 PM

Again you show how simple-minded you are when you call everyone who is not a Greedhead fanatic a "socialist." And the Founding Fodder who wrote your anti-democratic Constitution were lawyers for the 1%, so don't expect me to look at them like Christians look at the Twelve Apostles. You also worship the Constitution like Fundamentalists worship the Bible.

By the way, if you get away with calling the Capitaliban's infidels "Commies," why can't the rest of us call you "Nazis"? Your claim that Hitler was a Leftist is pathetically ridiculous. The Nazis gassed every Leftist they could get their claws on. But I can understand why your cult wants to hide the greatest mistake the Right Wing ever made.

You can call me anything that you want, I don/t care and if you don't want it to e called Socialism what would you prefer that I call it?

As far as NAZI???

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Nazi National Socialist Party Member?

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 07:42 PM

I'm all for ending cronyism. If there were a reform, and the money that was illegitimately earned, counterfeited,or subsidized was taken away from huge corporations, or whoever was the benefactor of said theft, great, I'd be all for that. Money earned legitimately though? No, that's not yours or anyone else's, comrade.

How is Daddy's Money earned by Heirheads? Without that, a lazy low-IQ draftdodger like Bush would be living in a trailer park instead of rising so far above real Americans. As for "legitimately," The Rule of Law Is the Law of the Rulers.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 07:48 PM

How is Daddy's Money earned by Heirheads? Without that, a lazy low-IQ draftdodger like Bush would be living in a trailer park instead of rising so far above real Americans. As for "legitimately," The Rule of Law Is the Law of the Rulers.

In my case Daddy earned his money in Construction and Security in dangerous places, and now in distribution, and multi unit housing. when I was 28 years old I had 28 dollars in the bank and was about 100K in debt, now I am debt free and well I have a bit more that 28 buck I will be 48 this year!

And I never finished my collage education after I fractured my back playing football?

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT RICH? What is it that the man has done to keep you from making money? Or is the problem the person that you see in the mirror?

The Sage of Main Street

01-08-2014, 07:48 PM

You fought in Vietnam, no? You didn't fight for your country or its citizens.

How dare you say that! Spit on our graves to cover up your drooling worship of those spoiled traitors who had their Daddies get them out of fighting a war they were 100% in favor of. We've had to put up with such anti-Americans privileges from them in economics too. They owe us 60,000 lives, mostly from 20-year-olds.

Heyduke

01-08-2014, 07:52 PM

A tiny cult of spoiled and conceited crackpots isn't going to take over the country I fought for, which your privileged Heir Guardsmen types never did. Your real goal is to take over the Greedheads On Parole party, which will destroy it forever. Everyone knows you're just Republicans who have come out of the closet and shown us the true political perversion previous Republican Reptiles have always tried to hide. Why do you think sane Republicans are trying to destroy you for foolishly giving the game away?

I don't like Republicans. They're interventionists, and they support so-called 'humanitarian' wars, and they espouse the Voodoo Economics religion of economic growth by any means necessary, and they are helping to fund an NSA datacenter in Utah to collect every scrap of digital litter that anyone in the world creates, and they support the prison industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the defense industry, and the war on drugs, etc., sort of exactly like the Democrats.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 08:09 PM

How dare you say that! Spit on our graves to cover up your drooling worship of those spoiled traitors who had their Daddies get them out of fighting a war they were 100% in favor of. We've had to put up with such anti-Americans privileges from them in economics too. They owe us 60,000 lives, mostly from 20-year-olds.

We may differ in politics but you are justified in this!

I thank you for your service you went through hell on earth and I thank you !

Codename Section

01-08-2014, 08:11 PM

America once belonged to the King of England and was about to be parceled out to his snooty aristocrats, the kind of people you call "successes." We "stole" it from him because we were "envious," I guess you'd say. To be consistent, you'd also have to tell us to give it back to the present British royal family, who would have inherited it, since inheritance is sacred and only the "jealous" have a problem with preppy privileges.

Well, we real Americans are not going to give it back. Instead, you Bootlickers of the Big Boys should go back to the crumbling castles of Europe where you belong and eat the dust and worms left by the guillotine-fodder. More and more Americans despise your Masters and will start listening to the same solution the real Tea Party took in Boston. But I guess in your unAmerican mind, those people have been "socialist" for over 200 years.

Dude, you need to chill. First of all, there are a million or more healthy, young, and grumpy combat vets that don't want to be socialists and won't appreciate people collecting and redistributing our shit. One person even comes near my house with the thought of socialist revolution and they'll meet Mr. Barrett and his friend Mr. 50 caliber. That's how grumpy I get when you start with this socialist revolution shit.

Naw, I don't like big corporations but I also know how to not do business with them. You should be more pissed at how much you pay in taxes instead of companies no one's forcing you to buy from.

Codename Section

01-08-2014, 08:13 PM

We may differ in politics but you are justified in this!

I thank you for your service you went through hell on earth and I thank you !

I did 9 years more service and I don't post around like a fucking fruit cake about heirheads and redistribution. I like the dude because he's a marine but Jesus Christ he needs to CTFD.

zelmo1234

01-08-2014, 08:15 PM

I did 9 years more service and I don't post around like a fucking fruit cake about heirheads and redistribution. I like the dude because he's a marine but Jesus Christ he needs to CTFD.

Yes but nobody is gong to piss on you around me either. Cast on my leg and all I will put a boot in there ass and stand up for the people that served this country as fucked up as it is!

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 11:30 AM

So Sage? Are you going to try and answer why people would continue to run a business after earning enough to live on?

Or why your socialist paradises have a lower standard of living?

Or how you would confiscate the wealth that people have earned?

Or do you just hate rich people because you are not willing to put forth the effort to be wealthy?

I've answered your questions time and time again, but you ignore any reply that isn't the answer you have been set up to "refudiate" by your Right Wing talk-show nannies. Or maybe it's because your slurping as you lick the boots of your corporate masters is so loud that you can't hear me. Either way, it's a waste of time to reason with the Capitaliban's economic-suicide bombers.

zelmo1234

01-09-2014, 11:38 AM

I've answered your questions time and time again, but you ignore any reply that isn't the answer you have been set up to "refudiate" by your Right Wing talk-show nannies. Or maybe it's because your slurping as you lick the boots of your corporate masters is so loud that you can't hear me. Either way, it's a waste of time to reason with the Capitaliban's economic-suicide bombers.

I will be the first to admit that I have a very short term memory, so if you have answer this in the past I really apologize?

But can I beg you to do it one more time?

Chris

01-09-2014, 11:44 AM

Off topic but I would really love to see a debate between The Sage of Main Street and Exotix. It doesn't, lol, have to be about anything.

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 11:50 AM

Feeding your children spoils the hell out of them as well.

My son went to school, got a scholarship, got his education, got a job as a biologist with the state and worked for 5 years, just like we agreed.

Now he wants to set up his own company helping land owners create the habitat and sustainable environment on their properties.

He has all of the know how and the drive and desire. He needs about a million in capital to get the equipment. He want to work for the average Joe instead of just the rich folk, so he can't charge as much as the people are charging the rich people so it would make it impossible, unless I set him up. Then he will have a great company that will be able to replace items as they wear out and he can help a lot of those middle class people enjoy and get more our of there properties.

So you think this is a terrible thing? I don't!

Bragging about him is taking advantage of the brainwashing the rest of us are subjected to. I have no respect for college graduates. They are scabs or rich kids. The 6th Grade grammar of college graduates proves (Diploma Dumbos would use "prove") that they had no more right to be in college than they had to be on the college football team, which is the only achievement there based on talent. Did you give him a healthy allowance so he could live like an adult instead of a childish brown-nose? If so, you bought him his job, just like you now think you have a right to buy him his business, which should go to the fittest, not the "fatherest."

College is for coolies. As long as class-climbers are willing to work without pay and live like 15-year-olds there because they are afraid to grow up, they steal their jobs from people with self-respect, because only people with more talent have self-respect. Sacrifice, including the sacrifice of the student's parents, has no merit. It is demeaning subservience to the unfunded mandate of the self-appointed ruling class.

Tree huggers are trust-fundies. If instead you're talking about rotating crops or something which that cult thinks violates nature, I still don't see why your Fortunate Son should be the best consultant on improvement of property values.

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 11:59 AM

I do love persecuting the peasants, tuff guy's and low life's

Using apostrophe s to form the plural proves that you are a typical low-IQ Heirhead, just like Dumbo Dubya and Paris W. Hilton.

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 12:03 PM

You can call me anything that you want, I don/t care and if you don't want it to be called Socialism what would you prefer that I call it?

As far as NAZI???

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Nazi National Socialist Party Member?

You're just a pawn and a decoy we will bypass to wipe out the far-outnumbered 1%. Let me talk to the organ grinder, not his monkey.

Political terms are nothing but disguises.

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 12:10 PM

In my case Daddy earned his money in Construction and Security in dangerous places, and now in distribution, and multi unit housing. when I was 28 years old I had 28 dollars in the bank and was about 100K in debt, now I am debt free and well I have a bit more that 28 buck I will be 48 this year!

And I never finished my collage education after I fractured my back playing football?

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT RICH? What is it that the man has done to keep you from making money? Or is the problem the person that you see in the mirror?

Unlike yours, my image casts a reflection in a mirror. Saying That the Rich Create Jobs Is Like Saying That Vampires Create Blood

The Xl

01-09-2014, 12:13 PM

How dare you say that! Spit on our graves to cover up your drooling worship of those spoiled traitors who had their Daddies get them out of fighting a war they were 100% in favor of. We've had to put up with such anti-Americans privileges from them in economics too. They owe us 60,000 lives, mostly from 20-year-olds.

How, exactly, did you defend the country? From what? Be specific.

Your emotional outbursts are meaningless to me.

Mainecoons

01-09-2014, 12:14 PM

Off topic but I would really love to see a debate between The Sage of Main Street and Exotix. It doesn't, lol, have to be about anything.

It won't be. It would be an amazing rant and ramble contest. Like you might hear in a mental ward.

:rofl:

The Xl

01-09-2014, 12:15 PM

How is Daddy's Money earned by Heirheads? Without that, a lazy low-IQ draftdodger like Bush would be living in a trailer park instead of rising so far above real Americans. As for "legitimately," The Rule of Law Is the Law of the Rulers.

You do realize not everyone makes their money through illegitimate means, right? And in those instances, what claim does anyone else have to it?

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 12:18 PM

I don't like Republicans. They're interventionists, and they support so-called 'humanitarian' wars, and they espouse the Voodoo Economics religion of economic growth by any means necessary, and they are helping to fund an NSA datacenter in Utah to collect every scrap of digital litter that anyone in the world creates, and they support the prison industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the defense industry, and the war on drugs, etc., sort of exactly like the Democrats.

The Right Wingers' Heirheads took over the Demwits and changed their platform into an anti-majority agenda. Those unAmerican guillotine-fodder scumbags don't have minds of their own, they are totally motivated by class instinct, whether they fancy themselves to be Liberal or Conservative. The fact that the Libretardians elected Paul II as their Pope disqualifies them from calling themselves Americans. And yes, that goes for the Teamsters too, because they elected Jimmy Hoffa, Junior.

zelmo1234

01-09-2014, 12:19 PM

Bragging about him is taking advantage of the brainwashing the rest of us are subjected to. I have no respect for college graduates. They are scabs or rich kids. The 6th Grade grammar of college graduates proves (Diploma Dumbos would use "prove") that they had no more right to be in college than they had to be on the college football team, which is the only achievement there based on talent. Did you give him a healthy allowance so he could live like an adult instead of a childish brown-nose? If so, you bought him his job, just like you now think you have a right to buy him his business, which should go to the fittest, not the "fatherest."

College is for coolies. As long as class-climbers are willing to work without pay and live like 15-year-olds there because they are afraid to grow up, they steal their jobs from people with self-respect, because only people with more talent have self-respect. Sacrifice, including the sacrifice of the student's parents, has no merit. It is demeaning subservience to the unfunded mandate of the self-appointed ruling class.

Tree huggers are trust-fundies. If instead you're talking about rotating crops or something which that cult thinks violates nature, I still don't see why your Fortunate Son should be the best consultant on improvement of property values.

Well here is the think first I raised my son, I was the first male in my county to get custody of a child!

he went to his mothers on an average of about 2 days a month and did not see her at all for the first 3 years. So he was well aware what it was like to be poor because until he was in high school? we had NO money, and he worked mowing lawns, and taking care of people animals and doing odd jobs for the neighbor so he could have some things.

I never gave him an allowance I do not believe in them, I did however post jobs that heeded to be done around the house and eventually the business with a dollar amount that each job paid. when he was 16 he got a part time job as well as his school studies and sports!

He got an academic scholarship to the collage of his choice and did not accept a gold scholarship to collages that did not have as good of a program in his field of choice! And while you can say that there is no science in wildlife and fisheries biology? You would be very wrong. He also has a minor in forestry so 2 majors and a minor in 4.5 years counting one summer that he went to school online!

His internship started his first summer with the State of MI and he has been with them ever since. The Democrats were in charge when he started so I would have had no political power, nor was I involved at the time!

He can teach soil, forestry, habitat, wildlife restoration and expansion and renewable resources as well as crop planting techniques that make it so the person that does not have unlimited recourses can have a thriving wildlife populations on there small properties

The people that do this for property owners charge about 10 to 20 K per property. My son wants to do a 500 dollar consulting fee for the first day and 100 dollars and hour for property improvements using the money from logging and crops to turn there property into something that they not only enjoy but produces income for the family instead of being an expense!

So YES I am going to help set him up in business. but in the same time he has worked for my business, he put in a Kitchen in one of the homes that we were building because I was gone and one of my finish carpenters was sick?

So why would I not help my own son get started and of course he will have 2 employees to start plus have to hire tax attorneys? have phone system and web design, all of this out of his own pocket, of which he has saved up the cash by living like a pulpier for the last 5 years.

But you would have me give my business and earnings to who. Upon my death and that still does not explain why people would work once they had earned enough money to live out there life?

And what is holding you back? I do not have a completed collage educations and I made it with no money from others, as I am from a poor family? well not anymore, but until I had the ability to help them out we were all poor!

What is holding you back,, Come up with a plan and I might be willing to help?

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 12:39 PM

We may differ in politics but you are justified in this!

I thank you for your service you went through hell on earth and I thank you !

I met somebody who was in the same battalion in Afghanistan that I was with in Vietnam. They had 35 killed in action. In the same time period, my battalion suffered 300 killed.

The Taliban can afford to waste ammunition by aimless pot-shots at American troops because they are fully funded by Saudi Arabia, an ally of our ruling class of thieves and traitors.

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 12:55 PM

First of all, there are a million or more healthy, young, and grumpy combat vets that don't want to be socialists and won't appreciate people collecting and redistributing our shit. One person even comes near my house with the thought of socialist revolution and they'll meet Mr. Barrett and his friend Mr. 50 caliber. That's how grumpy I get when you start with this socialist revolution shit.

Naw, I don't like big corporations but I also know how to not do business with them. You should be more pissed at how much you pay in taxes instead of companies no one's forcing you to buy from.

Your just a mouthpiece for the hereditary private-sector plutocrats if you chant that every revolution is Soashless!!! And I don't care if someone got a Medal of Honor in Bush's wars, if he doesn't hate the "pro-war" Preppy Pipsqueaks' gutless guts for having their Fatcat Fathers get them out of having to fight the Communists, then he has no honor!

With all your tough-guy waving of your guns, I infer that you support Ted Nugent. Your fearless leader pretended to be a coprophile slimeball in order to get the Induction Center to send real Americans to die in his place fighting the Communists. Your kind has no shame. We will dispossess and deport your plutocratic idols, just as the real Patriots did to the British and the Tories, who were the Right Wingers who opposed the first American Revolution. Your flag-waving is totally discredited by your worship of those who said, "Give me liberty or give me a draft deferment!" I will rub your faces in it as you bend down and lick the boots of the rich.

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 01:01 PM

I will be the first to admit that I have a very short term memory, so if you have answer this in the past I really apologize.

But can I beg you to do it one more time?

Just the way you phrased your questions proves you are not sincere. I'm not a rookie to the Whirled Wad of Wub, so I know all the Netwit tricks. Besides, with the "short term memory" you claim to have, you'll just "forget" my answers quickly and aggravate me again with your loaded questions.

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 01:09 PM

How, exactly, did you defend the country? From what? Be specific.

Your emotional outbursts are meaningless to me.

Gee thanks for insulting me as being over-emotional. And you expect me to answer you? It's even more insulting for you to think that I don't see how you are covering up for your lack of manhood.

nic34

01-09-2014, 01:10 PM

^^^:laugh:^^^

The Xl

01-09-2014, 01:12 PM

Gee thanks for insulting me as being over-emotional. And you expect me to answer you? It's even more insulting for you to think that I don't see how you are covering up for your lack of manhood.

I'm not the one injecting the irrelevant point of serving in the military into this discussion. That would be you.

I think I scale decently on the manliness scale, thanks for the concern. Not sure what that has to do with anything, though.

nic34

01-09-2014, 01:14 PM

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 01:16 PM

You do realize not everyone makes their money through illegitimate means, right? And in those instances, what claim does anyone else have to it?

What claim do the Heirs and wage-gougers have? Their legal justice means "Just Us." By ignoring my statement that the rule of law ("legitimate means") is the law of the rulers, you are trying to sidetrack the issue.

If They Own a Man's Work, They Own the Man but they claim that outside ownership by people not doing the work (= Communism for the Rich) is "legitimate." So why do I have to obey their claims and suppress my own? You beg the question by assuming that the status quo has the benefit of the doubt. I don't have to put up with your slavish conformity.

How do Communist governments get the money to finance their state-owned businesses? They extort it from the people. How do Capitalists get the money to finance their private-statist tyranny? They extort it from their employees and consumers.

The Xl

01-09-2014, 01:19 PM

What claim do the Heirs and wage-gougers have? Their legal justice means "Just Us." By ignoring my statement that the rule of law ("legitimate means") is the law of the rulers, you are trying to sidetrack the issue.

If They Own a Man's Work, They Own the Man but they claim that outside ownership by people not doing the work is "legitimate." So why do I have to obey their claims and suppress my own? You beg the question by assuming that the status quo has the benefit of the doubt. I don't have to put up with your slavish conformity.

What claim? The will of the person with said wealth is their claim, as it's his or her money, and said person has every right to do what they wish with it.

What claim do freeloaders have to someones wealth?

The Sage of Main Street

01-09-2014, 01:31 PM

Well here is the think first I raised my son, I was the first male in my county to get custody of a child!

he went to his mothers on an average of about 2 days a month and did not see her at all for the first 3 years. So he was well aware what it was like to be poor because until he was in high school? we had NO money, and he worked mowing lawns, and taking care of people animals and doing odd jobs for the neighbor so he could have some things.

I never gave him an allowance I do not believe in them, I did however post jobs that heeded to be done around the house and eventually the business with a dollar amount that each job paid. when he was 16 he got a part time job as well as his school studies and sports!

He got an academic scholarship to the collage of his choice and did not accept a gold scholarship to collages that did not have as good of a program in his field of choice! And while you can say that there is no science in wildlife and fisheries biology? You would be very wrong. He also has a minor in forestry so 2 majors and a minor in 4.5 years counting one summer that he went to school online!

His internship started his first summer with the State of MI and he has been with them ever since. The Democrats were in charge when he started so I would have had no political power, nor was I involved at the time!

He can teach soil, forestry, habitat, wildlife restoration and expansion and renewable resources as well as crop planting techniques that make it so the person that does not have unlimited recourses can have a thriving wildlife populations on there small properties

The people that do this for property owners charge about 10 to 20 K per property. My son wants to do a 500 dollar consulting fee for the first day and 100 dollars and hour for property improvements using the money from logging and crops to turn there property into something that they not only enjoy but produces income for the family instead of being an expense!

So YES I am going to help set him up in business. but in the same time he has worked for my business, he put in a Kitchen in one of the homes that we were building because I was gone and one of my finish carpenters was sick?

So why would I not help my own son get started and of course he will have 2 employees to start plus have to hire tax attorneys? have phone system and web design, all of this out of his own pocket, of which he has saved up the cash by living like a pulpier for the last 5 years.

But you would have me give my business and earnings to who. Upon my death and that still does not explain why people would work once they had earned enough money to live out there life?

And what is holding you back? I do not have a completed collage educations and I made it with no money from others, as I am from a poor family? well not anymore, but until I had the ability to help them out we were all poor!

What is holding you back,, Come up with a plan and I might be willing to help?

Pay people a high salary to go to college. Use confiscated inheritance and trust funds. The 1% alone leave $73 trillion dollars. If we tax the dead, we'll never have to tax the living. And it is not "their money" to commit crimes with or do anything else anti-social. Distorting the competition of the next generation in favor of their own children should be a crime. It is no different from bribery. You keep on sidetracking the issue by throwing a pity party funeral for the dead fathers. Only somebody who is afraid of ghosts would defend their right to unlevel the playing field after they are dead.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 01:35 PM

Your just a mouthpiece for the hereditary private-sector plutocrats if you chant that every revolution is Soashless!!! And I don't care if someone got a Medal of Honor in Bush's wars, if he doesn't hate the "pro-war" Preppy Pipsqueaks' gutless guts for having their Fatcat Fathers get them out of having to fight the Communists, then he has no honor!

The day you see me supporting Bush or Obama or any other chicken shit war hawk is the day aliens have taken over my body. I think if you want to start a war, gear the fuck up.

This "soahless" whatever shit you're plugging aint for me. I came out of the corps with nothing but a few good buddies who all managed to save a portion of our reenlistment bonuses to start a business.

My dad would if up to him leave me shit nothing. I had no help from family, just friends, and I'm doing well and don't appreciate your bullshit tax the 1% because I'm a 1%. I'm not a fucking brainiac, I just took the tools I got and came up with an idea.

Why didn't you? Don't tell me that the heirheads stopped you because no one EXCEPT the government has slowed me down, so fuck that shit.

With all your tough-guy waving of your guns, I infer that you support Ted Nugent.

Uhhhh, who?

Your fearless leader pretended to be a coprophile slimeball in order to get the Induction Center to send real Americans to die in his place fighting the Communists.

Who is my fearless leader? I'm a fucking antistatist. The closest I have to a leader is Olga Kurylenko.

Your kind has no shame. We will dispossess and deport your plutocratic idols, just as the real Patriots did to the British and the Tories, who were the Right Wingers who opposed the first American Revolution. Your flag-waving is totally discredited by your worship of those who said, "Give me liberty or give me a draft deferment!" I will rub your faces in it as you bend down and lick the boots of the rich.

You will do nothing. I'm about as afraid of a bunch of whiney ass shitbags as I am of a troop of Girl Scouts.

Bring it.

Chris

01-09-2014, 01:40 PM

What claim do the Heirs and wage-gougers have? Their legal justice means "Just Us." By ignoring my statement that the rule of law ("legitimate means") is the law of the rulers, you are trying to sidetrack the issue.

If They Own a Man's Work, They Own the Man but they claim that outside ownership by people not doing the work (= Communism for the Rich) is "legitimate." So why do I have to obey their claims and suppress my own? You beg the question by assuming that the status quo has the benefit of the doubt. I don't have to put up with your slavish conformity.

How do Communist governments get the money to finance their state-owned businesses? They extort it from the people. How do Capitalists get the money to finance their private-statist tyranny? They extort it from their employees and consumers.

Marxist exploitation theory spouted by someone who accuses others of communism?

And nic of Rolling Stone 5 point Marxism fame laughs with you not against you.

Chris

01-09-2014, 01:41 PM

The day you see me supporting Bush or Obama or any other chicken shit war hawk is the day aliens have taken over my body. I think if you want to start a war, gear the fuck up.

This "soahless" whatever shit you're plugging aint for me. I came out of the corps with nothing but a few good buddies who all managed to save a portion of our reenlistment bonuses to start a business.

My dad would if up to him leave me shit nothing. I had no help from family, just friends, and I'm doing well and don't appreciate your bullshit tax the 1% because I'm a 1%. I'm not a fucking brainiac, I just took the tools I got and came up with an idea.

Why didn't you? Don't tell me that the heirheads stopped you because no one EXCEPT the government has slowed me down, so fuck that shit.

Uhhhh, who?

Who is my fearless leader? I'm a fucking antistatist. The closest I have to a leader is Olga Kurylenko.

You will do nothing. I'm about as afraid of a bunch of whiney ass shitbags as I am of a troop of Girl Scouts.

Bring it.

He's just trolling you, don't fall for it. He's about as threatening as cigar.

The Xl

01-09-2014, 01:41 PM

Apparently, I'm supposed to work to leave the fruits of my labor to Sages lazy ass kids and the like.

Fuck off, and no thanks.

nic34

01-09-2014, 01:42 PM

CODE, YOU'RE A LOVER, AND WE KNOW IT...:grin:

nathanbforrest45

01-09-2014, 01:43 PM

I've answered your questions time and time again, but you ignore any reply that isn't the answer you have been set up to "refudiate" by your Right Wing talk-show nannies. Or maybe it's because your slurping as you lick the boots of your corporate masters is so loud that you can't hear me. Either way, it's a waste of time to reason with the Capitaliban's economic-suicide bombers.

Or to put it another way

blah blah blah blah blah

You do realize you haven't make the first salient point other than to rant like a Bloomsbury Intellectual.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 01:45 PM

Apparently, I'm supposed to work to leave the fruits of my labor to Sages lazy ass kids and the like.

Fuck off, and no thanks.

For all their socialistic garbage don't they realize that 20 people with $1k saved can start a good sized business? How about 20 people with $3k saved?

Useless complainers. It's not like I'm Albert fucking Einstein here. I'm a superficial jock who knows his way around weapons. If I can do it, he and his army of "we" can pool their fucking money and do something.

Christ, what candy-asses.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 01:46 PM

CODE, YOU'RE A LOVER, AND WE KNOW IT...:grin:

NIC, I'm trying. I want the flowers in my hair and, ok no, but I want the girl with flowers in her hair and I want to live like fucking Crazy Horse, free and feisty.

The Xl

01-09-2014, 01:49 PM

For all their socialistic garbage don't they realize that 20 people with $1k saved can start a good sized business? How about 20 people with $3k saved?

Useless complainers. It's not like I'm Albert fucking Einstein here. I'm a superficial jock who knows his way around weapons. If I can do it, he and his army of "we" can pool their fucking money and do something.

Christ, what candy-asses.
No, you're supposed to do it for him. He's entitled to it, of course, because he was in Vietnam or some shit.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 01:54 PM

No, you're supposed to do it for him. He's entitled to it, of course, because he was in Vietnam or some shit.

Well, fact, we should have done more for those vets. They were forced to go and Vietnam was some serious shit. However, it's 40 years ago now and if he is still bitching I'm not sure the problem. My father managed to be unhappily married, retire from the marines, get a coaching job and destroy our lives with his discipline in that amount of time.

He needs to catch up.

The Xl

01-09-2014, 01:56 PM

Well, fact, we should have done more for those vets. They were forced to go and Vietnam was some serious shit. However, it's 40 years ago now and if he is still bitching I'm not sure the problem. My father managed to be unhappily married, retire from the marines, get a coaching job and destroy our lives with his discipline in that amount of time.

He needs to catch up.

Look, I'm sorry about what happened to them, but at the end of the day, it doesn't mean he's entitled to my wealth, or anyone elses. My dad wasn't even an adult during Vietnam, why the hell should I be on the hook for it?

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 01:56 PM

Back to nic34 s actual topic.

I'm 100% for declaring Obamacare's individual mandate unconstitutional through legislation now, give up the DEA and drug war and pump that money into single payer with the justification that we also treat drug addiction like a medical condition.

The money from the drug war would cover Kucinich's single payer plan if you read it.

Chris

01-09-2014, 02:04 PM

Single payer can be privatized, and would be already were that what people wanted.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 02:08 PM

Single payer can be privatized, and would be already were that what people wanted.

Do "the people" ask for anything? No. They're told what they want. Ask if they want single payer over the drug war and I'll bet they'd take single payer.

Chris

01-09-2014, 02:12 PM

Do "the people" ask for anything? No. They're told what they want. Ask if they want single payer over the drug war and I'll bet they'd take single payer.

Ideas so good you have to pass laws to enforce them, eh?

I'd bet if you asked people do they want healthcare more bang for the buck they'd choose that over single payer. But you don't need government for that either, it doesn't do healthcare.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 02:16 PM

Ideas so good you have to pass laws to enforce them, eh?

I'd bet if you asked people do they want healthcare more bang for the buck they'd choose that over single payer. But you don't need government for that either, it doesn't do healthcare.

No. I prefer antistate solutions, but I'd also like to starve our more egregious agencies which is the best we can accomplish until the dollar crashes.

nathanbforrest45

01-09-2014, 02:18 PM

No, you're supposed to do it for him. He's entitled to it, of course, because he was in Vietnam or some shit.

I am a Vietnam veteran. I am sick to death of the whining and crying about Vietnam Vets like we are all some kind of candy assed pussies who were traumatized by having to do what almost every generation of males has had to do since this country was founded. We were nothing special, we went over and most of us came back. Was I changed by what happened? I would be a fool to say that I was not but does that mean I am dysfunctional or that the rest of you owe me a living? Hell no, and I for one am sick of being treated like I was too stupid and weak to get on with my life, that I had to turn to drugs or alcohol or whatever to cope.

And another thing, the word HERO is used far too liberally and has completely diluted the true meaning of the word. I was not a hero for simply doing what I was sent over there to do.

Chris

01-09-2014, 02:19 PM

No. I prefer antistate solutions, but I'd also like to starve our more egregious agencies which is the best we can accomplish until the dollar crashes.

Well, Rolling Stone and Nic are headed in the opposite direction.

jillian

01-09-2014, 02:22 PM

No. I prefer antistate solutions, but I'd also like to starve our more egregious agencies which is the best we can accomplish until the dollar crashes.

starve 'em til you can drown them in the bathtub, right?

that way government can't function.

sorry, chief, we have an actual government. as i keep saying, you can feel free to set up anything you like.

leave everyone else alone and it's awesome.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 02:26 PM

I am a Vietnam veteran. I am sick to death of the whining and crying about Vietnam Vets like we are all some kind of candy assed pussies who were traumatized by having to do what almost every generation of males has had to do since this country was founded. We were nothing special, we went over and most of us came back. Was I changed by what happened? I would be a fool to say that I was not but does that mean I am dysfunctional or that the rest of you owe me a living? Hell no, and I for one am sick of being treated like I was too stupid and weak to get on with my life, that I had to turn to drugs or alcohol or whatever to cope.

And another thing, the word HERO is used far too liberally and has completely diluted the true meaning of the word. I was not a hero for simply doing what I was sent over there to do.

I mean no offense, but weren't you on a ship, though? Those dudes in the bush faced all sorts of terrible shit in Vietnam. The Vietnamese had 40 years of asymmetric warfare fighting the French, the Chinese, etc. They were stepping on sharpened sticks coated with human feces, landmines, little kids with guns, to quote the Big Lebowski they were a worthy adversary.

I think this dude is a whiner, too, but Vietnam was some serious shit.

Chris

01-09-2014, 02:26 PM

starve 'em til you can drown them in the bathtub, right?

that way government can't function.

sorry, chief, we have an actual government. as i keep saying, you can feel free to set up anything you like.

leave everyone else alone and it's awesome.

Can we then set up a Department of Starve the Government, the DSG?

The government doesn't function very well anyhow.

The Xl

01-09-2014, 02:27 PM

jillian

01-09-2014, 02:28 PM

Take your own advice.

difference is the government i live under already exists.

i'm not trying to screw it up like the i hate gubmint types.

i hope that helps.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 02:28 PM

starve 'em til you can drown them in the bathtub, right?

Yep. I wish the CIA, NSA, and DEA would drown.

that way government can't function.

Barely function.

sorry, chief, we have an actual government. as i keep saying, you can feel free to set up anything you like.

leave everyone else alone and it's awesome.

I'm a tax paying citizen who served my country for ten years. I have every right to say where my money goes and try to keep it from going to the wrong places.

Now, if you want to let me out of paying taxes I'll shut up happily.

jillian

01-09-2014, 02:29 PM

Can we then set up a Department of Starve the Government, the DSG?

The government doesn't function very well anyhow.

in your opinion.

i think it would function a lot better if the wingers got out of the way.

jillian

01-09-2014, 02:30 PM

Do "the people" ask for anything? No. They're told what they want. Ask if they want single payer over the drug war and I'll bet they'd take single payer.

they pretty much say what they want when they vote.

personally, i think there should be mandatory voting and more political parties representing the diversity of the population.

but that isn't what we have.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 02:30 PM

difference is the government i live under already exists.

i'm not trying to screw it up like the i hate gubmint types.

i hope that helps.

No, the government that existed was a small government with a federalist system. You're happy that it's not that and you support the people who changed it from its original purpose.

Why can't he change it too? Living Constitutions and all that. Governments should match the people and if the people want it smaller (and our generation does) we have every right to change it.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 02:31 PM

they pretty much say what they want when they vote.

Not when you have only two choices or stay home. Well, since most stay home I guess they're voting for "none". :D

personally, i think there should be mandatory voting and more political parties representing the diversity of the population.

but that isn't what we have.

No, it isn't.

jillian

01-09-2014, 02:33 PM

Not when you have only two choices or stay home. Well, since most stay home I guess they're voting for "none". :D

No, it isn't.

start a third party, bubbalah.

Chris

01-09-2014, 02:36 PM

in your opinion.

i think it would function a lot better if the wingers got out of the way.

My opinion in reply to your opinion, indeed.

I agree, get all the left and right winger statists out of the way and then start a DoStB (Dept of Starve the Beast).

Chris

01-09-2014, 02:44 PM

they pretty much say what they want when they vote.

personally, i think there should be mandatory voting and more political parties representing the diversity of the population.

but that isn't what we have.

Only 50% vote. Not many asked for the ACA.

Politics is the art of the possible, not merely saying this is what we have.

jillian

01-09-2014, 02:48 PM

Only 50% vote. Not many asked for the ACA.

Politics is the art of the possible, not merely saying this is what we have.

you notice i said voting should be mandatory. so should civics classes in school.

the art of the possible within the confines of the government we have... not the destruction of the government we have.

the rest of it? fodder for philosophy class. and believe me, i loved my political philosophy class. but it is irrelevant to the system we have now. and breaking down that system and replacing it with .... nothing... isn't rational.

though its lovely for philosophical discussion. and i'm not saying that as an insult. i just tend to be a pragmatic. i love poltiics. i don't love anarchy. it fails every time.... though emma goldman would have loved you.

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 03:02 PM

Chris

01-09-2014, 03:07 PM

you notice i said voting should be mandatory. so should civics classes in school.

the art of the possible within the confines of the government we have... not the destruction of the government we have.

the rest of it? fodder for philosophy class. and believe me, i loved my political philosophy class. but it is irrelevant to the system we have now. and breaking down that system and replacing it with .... nothing... isn't rational.

though its lovely for philosophical discussion. and i'm not saying that as an insult. i just tend to be a pragmatic. i love poltiics. i don't love anarchy. it fails every time.... though emma goldman would have loved you.

The parties offer no one to vote for so making voting mandatory makes no sense. And what do you call civics, government propoganda in government schools to worship the State, forgettaboutit.

the art of the possible within the confines of the government we have... not the destruction of the government we have.

We the people created the government and we the people are free and within our natural rights to abolish it.

the rest of it?

I didn't say anything more but you just go ahead and run off your mouth making things up to put in my mouth. Few believe you any more.

And it goes without saying you love and worship your government, tell us something we haven't known for a good long time.

jillian

01-09-2014, 03:09 PM

The parties offer no one to vote for so making voting mandatory makes no sense. And what do you call civics, government propoganda in government schools to worship the State, forgettaboutit.

so run better people. i always have *someone* to vote for.

sorry, i can't help your gubmint hate. i've already told you what i think of the world you'd create.

We the people created the government and we the people are free and within our natural rights to abolish it.

cause that worked out so well for the confederacy.

t say anything more but you just go ahead and run off your mouth making things up to put in my mouth. Few believe you any more.

i posted a perfectly reasonable response to your snarky comments. i'm sorry the only thing you think is an ok response is to pretend what you have to say makes sense.

you should work on that. because while you know philosophy... i got over that in college staying up and pondering the world with my friends.

but i'm grown up now.

Chris

01-09-2014, 03:28 PM

so run better people. i always have *someone* to vote for.

sorry, i can't help your gubmint hate. i've already told you what i think of the world you'd create.

cause that worked out so well for the confederacy.

i posted a perfectly reasonable response to your snarky comments. i'm sorry the only thing you think is an ok response is to pretend what you have to say makes sense.

you should work on that. because while you know philosophy... i got over that in college staying up and pondering the world with my friends.

but i'm grown up now.

so run better people. i always have *someone* to vote for.

N.O.T.A.

sorry, i can't help your gubmint hate.

Please don't project your emotional hate onto my rational disagreement with government. It's intellectually dishonest on your part.

i've already told you what i think of the world you'd create.

No you haven't actually, you haven't risen above emotional dislike.

cause that worked out so well for the confederacy.

It worked for the American Revolution. The War of Northern Aggression isn't over.

i posted a perfectly reasonable response to your snarky comments.

You made things up and tried to put them in my mouth as you rather consistently dishonestly try to do.

but i'm grown up now.

When will we see that, jillian? Grown ups are willing to admit to mistakes and being wrong. Grown ups don't compulsively lie.

nic34

01-09-2014, 03:42 PM

Well, Rolling Stone and Nic are headed in the opposite direction.

I have no problem with antistate solutions, but the track record of large corporations (that also happen to use our US courts more than anyone) isn't very good when it comes to what's in the best interest of the PEOPLE.

Chris

01-09-2014, 03:43 PM

I have no problem with antistate solutions, but the track record of large corporations (that also happen to use our US courts more than anyone) isn't very good when it comes to what's in the best interest of the PEOPLE.

Not when they rent seek by political means, no they're not. But who offers them those political means but the best government money can buy?

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 03:44 PM

I have no problem with antistate solutions, but the track record of large corporations (that also happen to use our US courts more than anyone) isn't very good when it comes to what's in the best interest of the PEOPLE.

And their customer service sucks and they own the government and they lack craftsmanship and they're ugly...which is why I buy local or from small businesses.

zelmo1234

01-09-2014, 03:45 PM

Just the way you phrased your questions proves you are not sincere. I'm not a rookie to the Whirled Wad of Wub, so I know all the Netwit tricks. Besides, with the "short term memory" you claim to have, you'll just "forget" my answers quickly and aggravate me again with your loaded questions.

So you don't have an answer to the questions, I did not think so and my posts are not real hard to understand.

I would guess that you hatred of the rich will insure that you will never have what you could easily attain if you put forth the effort! that people are not the problem, the socialist program of the government is what is holding the middle class and the poor down!

here is the thing I would be willing to bet that I could give you a million and in 5 years you would be broke, but I would start with 100 dollars and in five years I would have a million!

zelmo1234

01-09-2014, 03:48 PM

What claim do the Heirs and wage-gougers have? Their legal justice means "Just Us." By ignoring my statement that the rule of law ("legitimate means") is the law of the rulers, you are trying to sidetrack the issue.

If They Own a Man's Work, They Own the Man but they claim that outside ownership by people not doing the work (= Communism for the Rich) is "legitimate." So why do I have to obey their claims and suppress my own? You beg the question by assuming that the status quo has the benefit of the doubt. I don't have to put up with your slavish conformity.

How do Communist governments get the money to finance their state-owned businesses? They extort it from the people. How do Capitalists get the money to finance their private-statist tyranny? They extort it from their employees and consumers.

So are you advocating NO government??? And weather you believe it or not, I am trying like hell to figure out where you are coming from so I can make a thoughtful response that doesn't just piss you off!

nathanbforrest45

01-09-2014, 03:52 PM

I mean no offense, but weren't you on a ship, though? Those dudes in the bush faced all sorts of terrible shit in Vietnam. The Vietnamese had 40 years of asymmetric warfare fighting the French, the Chinese, etc. They were stepping on sharpened sticks coated with human feces, landmines, little kids with guns, to quote the Big Lebowski they were a worthy adversary.

I think this dude is a whiner, too, but Vietnam was some serious shit.

Not saying it wasn't and yes I was on a ship but we did take fire on occasion and yes I did have people I knew on the ship killed in action. I am saying don't treat Vietnam vets like they can't handle being in that situation. Do you think Vietnam vets had it worse than WW2 vets or Korean War vets. More men died on June 6, 1944 than in the entire Afghan war so far. In one battle in WW1 over 70,000 men died, something like 10,000 in the first hour. I am tired of hearing how bad Vietnam was and treating us all like imbeciles.

zelmo1234

01-09-2014, 03:53 PM

Pay people a high salary to go to college. Use confiscated inheritance and trust funds. The 1% alone leave $73 trillion dollars. If we tax the dead, we'll never have to tax the living. And it is not "their money" to commit crimes with or do anything else anti-social. Distorting the competition of the next generation in favor of their own children should be a crime. It is no different from bribery. You keep on sidetracking the issue by throwing a pity party funeral for the dead fathers. Only somebody who is afraid of ghosts would defend their right to unlevel the playing field after they are dead.

Ok so you know my story pretty much if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them! What Claim does anyone have to my wealth? I did not cheat people or steal it Right now I have 71 full time employee's and 6 part time employee's I have no person that makes a wage that would even come close to the poverty level they are way above that!

And I have invested this money in ventures and provided goods and services that others desire. I pay between 18 and 22% taxes depending on the year?

What right do you or anyone else have to my companies or my wealth?

Chris

01-09-2014, 03:55 PM

And their customer service sucks and they own the government and they lack craftsmanship and they're ugly...which is why I buy local or from small businesses.

But government has monopoly on force.

One could have argued corporations and banksters owned government back before the 16th amendment, but income tax gave government direct access to all the funds they ever need, and put the puppet masters strings in the hands of the State.

nathanbforrest45

01-09-2014, 03:59 PM

How do Communist governments get the money to finance their state-owned businesses? They extort it from the people. How do Capitalists get the money to finance their private-statist tyranny? They extort it from their employees and consumers

How do corporations extort money from consumers? By offering them a product they want at a price they are willing to pay? How do they extort it from their employees, by paying them a salary they are willing to work for?

You are one of the least knowledgeable posters on this board when it comes to economics and how things work. That quote above is absolutely stupid.

zelmo1234

01-09-2014, 04:02 PM

starve 'em til you can drown them in the bathtub, right?

that way government can't function.

sorry, chief, we have an actual government. as i keep saying, you can feel free to set up anything you like.

leave everyone else alone and it's awesome.

So what happens when this government runs out of money and cant' function?

Would n't it be great if there were a bunch of people that are ready for this situation!

zelmo1234

01-09-2014, 04:04 PM

in your opinion.

i think it would function a lot better if the wingers got out of the way.

What do you think that they would be doing if the republicans were not blocking whatever they are supposed to be blocking?

nathanbforrest45

01-09-2014, 04:09 PM

What do you think that they would be doing if the republicans were not blocking whatever they are supposed to be blocking?

Driving us all over the cliff

Chris

01-09-2014, 04:11 PM

nathanbforrest45

01-09-2014, 04:17 PM

In a corporatist system like we have, corporations maintain if not gain wealth largely by regulatory favors from the government.

They maintain market share but they don't force consumers to buy from them. If I want a car I have options from at least 6 different countries to choose from or I can simply ride the bus. GM cannot, as yet, force me into buying a Volt or a Corvette (that wouldn't take much force to be honest). As long as there is competition and a desire to be top dog prices will not get out of line as someone will always try to undersell the others. Corporate Cronyism is alive and well but it serves mainly to keep newcomers out of the market.

nic34

01-09-2014, 04:20 PM

In a corporatist system like we have, corporations maintain if not gain wealth largely by regulatory favors from the government.

... and how do you think it got that way? Right, by filling the courts with cronies.... billionaires rigging the system.

Probably wouldn't have even needed the 16th had giant corporations stayed regulated as they were when this country was founded....

Codename Section

01-09-2014, 04:23 PM

nathanbforrest45

01-09-2014, 04:26 PM

nathanbforrest45

01-09-2014, 04:29 PM

OH, and the small shipper? They use companies like me and pool their shipments with others and get almost the same discounts and services as the biggest of the big.

Chris

01-09-2014, 04:31 PM

... and how do you think it got that way? Right, by filling the courts with cronies.... billionaires rigging the system.

Probably wouldn't have even needed the 16th had giant corporations stayed regulated as they were when this country was founded....

Presidents fill courts, nic, and the Fed with cronies.

Let me be clear, government and corporations are to blame equally. One has the power, the other the wealth. In collusion they're corrupt. On this I think we can all mostly agree.

Where we might disagree is I argue that while both are necessary, government itself is sufficient. For as long as there is a government with monopoly on force, there will be corporations and other special interests that will rent seeks its favors for the simple reason political means of gain are easier than economic means. The point being that growing government won't solve but only exaserbate the problem of crony corruption. Only reducing the size and power of government will solve it.

nathanbforrest45

01-09-2014, 04:35 PM

Chris

01-09-2014, 04:40 PM

One of the biggest beneficiaries of regulatory controls was the trucking industry and the Interstate Commerce Commission. Carriers were not allowed to cut their rates below a certain level, they had to maintain service to all points and the main function of the ICC was to insure that small inefficient carriers were able to maintain profitability at the expense of the small consumer. Large motor carriers were raking in 30 percent or better profit margins and small carriers were around the 10 percent mark. In 1980 the ICC began allowing carriers to offer discounts under certain circumstances. The market went crazy. The first carrier to do this was Overnite Transportation and offered a whopping 10 percent discount for 5 or more shipments. Everyone got into the act and a year or two later it was an open market. Hundreds of carriers went out of business, including some of the major players. Today, I can get the equivalent of a 90% discount because I manage over $50 million dollars in freight for my clients and the carriers that are left are operating on the 10 percent margin but now have a much greater market share. Almost every union carrier went out of business. The only major carrier still unionized today is YRC, a merger of Yellow Freight Systems and Roadway Express and it is barely hanging on.

Taking away that government "oversight" ended the de facto monopoly and the predictions of the government advocates has simply failed to materialize. Yes, carriers went out of business but those left are able to expand technology and offer services unheard of 30 years ago.

Isn't it wonderful the power of government to manipulate markets?

Consider the medical durable goods industry--wheelchairs, beds, oxygen, etc. OK, at one time much of this was sold through local mom and pops, overtime corporations developed that could take advantage of economies of scale, but the mom and pops held in there. Then CMS decided to introduce competitive bidding for Medicare payments. Thing is only the larger corporations could provide wide enough coverage over a large area at low enough prices to compete. The result is most mom and pops are being driven out of business.

Once again, corporations rent seeking government regulation to drive out competition and gain marketshare.

Chris

01-09-2014, 04:43 PM

Get rid of the power of government to regulate industry and you get rid of one group having power over another. All regulation is for the purpose of limiting competition of one group against another. All regulation, not some, not most, ALL.

Exactly. Instead of a few competing politically to the benefit of a few in government and business, you'd get many competing economically to the benefit of all. Businesses would have to innovate to provide better value at lower costs.

donttread

01-09-2014, 06:24 PM

Communism works very well, in small homogonus societies . However, it works so badly in large societies as to be worse than our system

1. Guaranteed Work for Everybody

2. Social Security for All

3. Take Back The Land

4. Make Everything Owned by Everybody

5. A Public Bank in Every State

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/five-economic-reforms-millennials-should-be-fighting-for-20140103#ixzz2pptdIw1g

Read it first before going all Fox-wacky. Much of this has already been put in place by conservatives... :wink:

patrickt

01-10-2014, 10:21 AM

Would you say these are the ends of progressivism?

I don't get your well poisoning partisanship.

It's exactly like the Christians knocking on your door to convert you. As true believers, they have to try and seduce others into their insanity.

Chris

01-10-2014, 11:03 AM

It's exactly like the Christians knocking on your door to convert you. As true believers, they have to try and seduce others into their insanity.

Statism such as the Marxist views of the Rolling Stone ex po reuses is a religion.

The Sage of Main Street

01-10-2014, 12:49 PM

^^^:laugh:^^^

Yeah, girlyman Dhimmis are pretty funny. The same goes for sissyboy draftdodgers like Dumbo Dubya and Slick Willie. Also, the Romney Rambos who think campaigning for their Daddy is equivalent to risking their lives in the Chickenhawk's wars.

The Sage of Main Street

01-10-2014, 12:51 PM

The Kent St. 4 were also casualties of "pro-war" Preppy Pipsqueaks ... and they weren't even the protesters....

They were only in college to get out of having to fight the Communists, so good riddance.

The Sage of Main Street

01-10-2014, 12:56 PM

Or to put it another way

blah blah blah blah blah

You do realize you haven't make the first salient point other than to rant like a Bloomsbury Intellectual.

I'm sure your corporate Masters will pat you on the back and say "Cute little doggie we have" for your drooling slurping.

The Sage of Main Street

01-10-2014, 01:03 PM

So you don't have an answer to the questions, I did not think so and my posts are not real hard to understand.

I would guess that you hatred of the rich will insure that you will never have what you could easily attain if you put forth the effort! that people are not the problem, the socialist program of the government is what is holding the middle class and the poor down!

here is the thing I would be willing to bet that I could give you a million and in 5 years you would be broke, but I would start with 100 dollars and in five years I would have a million!
Just like Bernie Madoff or the corpies at Enron?

Those mental masturbation fantasies are what is keeping you from looking in the mirror. Saying That the Rich Create Jobs Is Like Saying That Vampires Create Blood

The Sage of Main Street

01-10-2014, 01:12 PM

So are you advocating NO government??? And whether you believe it or not, I am trying like hell to figure out where you are coming from so I can make a thoughtful response that doesn't just piss you off!

How can you be thoughtful if you immediately jump to an unfounded conclusion such as "no government" in order to strawman me into idiocy? If someone said we need to recruit better policemen and train them better, you would say he wants to fire all the present policemen and let criminals run wild.

The Sage of Main Street

01-10-2014, 01:36 PM

Ok so you know my story pretty much if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them! What Claim does anyone have to my wealth? I did not cheat people or steal it Right now I have 71 full time employee's and 6 part time employee's I have no person that makes a wage that would even come close to the poverty level they are way above that!

And I have invested this money in ventures and provided goods and services that others desire. I pay between 18 and 22% taxes depending on the year?

What right do you or anyone else have to my companies or my wealth?

Abolishing inheritance doesn't take any of your wealth if you're dead. It takes it from the freeloading Heirheads who can use it to get positions far above what they would have earned on their own. You have no right to bias the competition of future generations of Americans. It is nothing more than bribing the referees. Your only justification would be because other HeirDads have also granted the right to bribe the officials, so your son will wind up a loser no matter how talented he is if you don't do the same. That's your real fear and resentment. With your self-centeredness, you think abolition will only apply to you and leave your son subject to the lack of non-self-destructive opportunities Unfortunate Sons have.

Again, before you call me a "sore loser"; why should I have to play their game when the prep schools start every inning with the bases loaded? I was a National Merit scholar; business and society needed me more than I needed to put up with their insulting demand that I sacrifice years of my life just to get the job that naturally belonged to me in the first place. The slave slogan, "The World Doesn't Owe You a Living" should be realistically and proudly answered, "I Don't Owe Those Who Own the World a Living; Let Them Hire the No-Talents Who Are Willing to Sacrifice in Order to Make the Rich Richer." If someone swallows his pride he chokes his talent, so the plutocratic parasites won't get much out of the National Merit scholars who do submit to the demoralizing indentured servitude of college "education."

It's absurd to justify positioning your heirs halfway to the finish line and then claiming that they deserved to win because they could have just walked the rest of the way. Most anti-majority hereditary positions are equivalent to giving the NBA champions the #1 draft pick.

The Sage of Main Street

01-10-2014, 01:43 PM

What do you think that they would be doing if the republicans were not blocking whatever they are supposed to be blocking?

Again, this is cognitive dissonance. If the GOPers truly believed that Obama's solutions won't work, they would let him have his way and destroy his own credibility. So they have proved that they really believe that Obama can get the job done, which would sweep their party into the dustpan of history.

nic34

01-10-2014, 01:44 PM

They were only in college to get out of having to fight the Communists, so good riddance.

Well, maybe one, two were women and one was in ROTC.

The Sage of Main Street

01-10-2014, 01:58 PM

Well, maybe one, two were women and one was in ROTC.

The women were in college to date girlyman draftdodgers, so good riddance. By the way, South Vietnam, Lebanon, and Kuwait also exempted their Fortunate Sons from having to fight for their country. We will suffer the same fate; history guarantees it. That goes back to Carthage, which hired mercenaries to do all its fighting against Rome, where every citizen was expected to be a soldier. The aristocracies that lasted for centuries all required the Heirheads to risk their lives on the front line, so our Preppy Republic is doomed.

Another case from the classical era was when the son of the famous Alcibiades was prosecuted for using connections to get into a ceremonial troop when he wasn't qualified, which was no better than Bush's Heir Guard. The punishment was confiscation of all his property.

nic34

01-10-2014, 02:38 PM

Agree, everyone should be subject to a draft. Cuts down on wars...

The Xl

01-10-2014, 02:56 PM

Agree, everyone should be subject to a draft. Cuts down on wars...

The draft is slavery and has no place in this country. No one should be able to force me to fight and potentially die against my will, and especially not for bankers and the military industrial complex.

An educated public that wasn't stupid and apathetic as fuck would really cut down on the wars.

nathanbforrest45

01-10-2014, 03:03 PM

I see the word draft dodger thrown around quite a bit here. What exactly is a draft dodger. Is anyone who avoided being drafted a draft dodger. Suppose I joined a reserve unit and ended up serving in Vietnam. Would that make me a draft dodger?

Bill Clinton ran off to England and avoided any military service. George W Bush served in a Reserve Unit and actually flew aircraft. John Kerry was a River Boat commander and saw combat, Al Gore was a photographer and avoided having to do much of anything. Of the four I would say John Kerry was the least of the "draft dodgers" and Bill Clinton the only actual "draft dodger" The other two avoided combat but did serve in some capacity in the military.

And I think the left wingers here are being disingenuous since they opposed the war in Vietnam, called anyone who did serve "baby killers" and now are attacking those who managed to avoid combat.

Cute.

nathanbforrest45

01-10-2014, 03:05 PM

Agree, everyone should be subject to a draft. Cuts down on wars...

No one should be subject to the draft. The draft in my opinion is nothing more than involuntary servitude. If you need to draft people to fight a war then the people are not behind the war and you should not be fighting it.

I can't for the life of me understand how having everyone subject to the draft will cut down wars. That's like saying requiring everyone to screw on Saturday night will cut down on STDs

The Xl

01-10-2014, 03:07 PM

Anyone with half a brain would have attempted to dodge the draft, especially for Vietnam, arguably the most ridiculous and pointless war in American history. And why not? Who the hell has the right to tell you to fight and die pointlessly? The state? Fuck no, the state can piss off, they don't even have the right to tell me how much soda I can drink, let alone dictate my time and place of death.

For all the draft dodgers, I ain't even mad. Unless you became a politician and try to push bullshit wars on my generation, that's different.

The Xl

01-10-2014, 03:08 PM

No one should be subject to the draft. The draft in my opinion is nothing more than involuntary servitude. If you need to draft people to fight a war then the people are not behind the war and you should not be fighting it.

I can't for the life of me understand how having everyone subject to the draft will cut down wars. That's like saying requiring everyone to screw on Saturday night will cut down on STDs

I don't always see eye to eye with you, but you're spot on here.

Chris

01-10-2014, 03:10 PM

Agree, everyone should be subject to a draft. Cuts down on wars...

Any data on that? Just wondering.

The Xl

01-10-2014, 03:12 PM

Any data on that? Just wondering.

http://www.lolception.com/lollibs/memeimgs/134894013.jpg

Didn't stop Vietnam or Korea from happening.

nathanbforrest45

01-10-2014, 03:27 PM

Vietnam was perhaps the most pointless war ever. One reason given was that it wasn't for us, it was for the South Vietnamese. So, the 50,000 young men who died died for a group of people who could not and would not fight their own war.

At least the men and women in Afghanistan and Iraq were all volunteers and knew what they were getting into.

nic34

01-10-2014, 03:42 PM

Any data on that? Just wondering.

Mostly a tounge in cheek comment on my part.

As far as I know, there's never been a draft w/o deferments, so there's no way to know.

Mini Me

01-10-2014, 04:07 PM

George Bush was a progressive.

Adolf Hitler was a bleeding heart socialist liberal gun grabber who so loved the disabled and unwashed masses!

Chris

01-10-2014, 04:20 PM

Mostly a tounge in cheek comment on my part.

As far as I know, there's never been a draft w/o deferments, so there's no way to know.

:-) Just curious, be interesting to know.

Mini Me

01-10-2014, 04:27 PM

Most neocons and social cons are.

You con holers always say that when you want to disown one of your own!

Mini Me

01-10-2014, 04:53 PM

1. Abolish all birth privileges: inheritance, trust funds, and living off an allowance in college. Also, disqualify from holding elective or appointed public office anyone whose parent held public office. Imagine if pro athletes had the right to pass on their positions to their sons and you will realize what damage is done to a country run by birth and not by worth.

2. Eliminate the supremacy of the Constitution. Treat it as a temporary start-up document to be superseded by all subsequent legislation. The fact that we have to ask whether a proposed policy is Constitutional instead of simply whether it is good for the country proves that the Constitution is not good for the country.

3. Pay a high salary to those who qualify to go to college. The present system is childish, depressing, and insulting. It is class-biased indentured servitude and discourages the talented from studying. The no-talent brown-noses and no-talent rich kids who endure it drag the economy down. Just like birth privileges, it puts inferior people in superior positions.

4. Eliminate conservation. We have barely scratched the surface of the earth and are centuries away from anything beginning to run out. Environmentalism is a false-flag form of Right Wing hoarding and the consequent price-gouging. No species worth saving is endangered. Pollution is like spitting in the ocean and also kills viruses and stops epidemics.

About # 4.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the Enviro movement could be a deliberate scheme by the corporate elite to RAISE prices of commodities by creating artificial shortages and excessive regulation especially with energy, timber, mining, water and other industries?

Notice, it sure as hell works out that way doesn't it?

If you look at all the major legislation done in the last 10-20 years, you will see that virtually all of it benefited the 1% elite fascists in some way or another! Surprising? Not really if you think about it.

On # 2, the pigs in the Congress NEVER ask if something is good for the country anymore! The "common good" is not even in the vernacular anymore.

On # 1, we do have an aristocracy that is firmly entrenched with the reigns of power. But to have govt. seize their assets would be wrong as they are individuals. But in the case of corrupt big banks and investment banks who have done harm to the people, it must be done! Crimes must be proven in every case, and due process of law must be followed.

Mini Me

01-10-2014, 05:04 PM

They are underneath the banks. Tell me how many billions it takes to become elected.

Mr. freeze, I don't mean any disrespect, but you must be one poor dude to have to resort to bartering to survive!

Hey, its ok, I have been there too, and bartering only works on a limited basis, most everyone wants Johnny Cash.

What do you do for a living, if I may ask? Or are you one of the unemployed or disabled.?

I sympathise with your thinking in most ways, but it just doesn't seem very realistic to have to live that way.

Chris

01-10-2014, 05:06 PM

You con holers always say that when you want to disown one of your own!

I'm libertarian/anarchocapitalist. Do try and keep up.

kilgram

01-10-2014, 05:14 PM

Would you say these are the ends of progressivism?

I don't get your well poisoning partisanship.
It is socialism. It is not progressivism.

Alyosha

01-10-2014, 05:15 PM

Mr. freeze, I don't mean any disrespect, but you must be one poor dude to have to resort to bartering to survive!

Hey, its ok, I have been there too, and bartering only works on a limited basis, most everyone wants Johnny Cash.

What do you do for a living, if I may ask? Or are you one of the unemployed or disabled.?

I sympathise with your thinking in most ways, but it just doesn't seem very realistic to have to live that way.

He's a CPA and an evil 1% type that creates cooperatives that help those who are not as blessed, although I'm sure it is just a nefarious scheme to trick people into thinking he's helping them. That barter-trade and alternative currency angle is just his being a tricksey hobbitses.

I'm quite certain at some point he'll pounce and do something...1%ish and evil while he plays with his mustache.

Alyosha

01-10-2014, 05:16 PM

Adolf Hitler was a bleeding heart socialist liberal gun grabber who so loved the disabled and unwashed masses!

He was in fact all those things. He wanted to care for you and provide you with equal rights if you looked the right way. Socialists always have qualifiers.

It's such a drag. :(

Chris

01-10-2014, 05:22 PM

It is socialism. It is not progressivism.

And the difference?

Many a commentary said it was Marxist.

Ransom

01-10-2014, 05:28 PM

The draft is slavery and has no place in this country. No one should be able to force me to fight and potentially die against my will, and especially not for bankers and the military industrial complex.

An educated public that wasn't stupid and apathetic as fuck would really cut down on the wars.

Rather than debate you here, I will ask a question. How many have already been drafted, fought, and died for the right for you to sit in here and spout your drivel?

The Xl

01-10-2014, 05:31 PM

Rather than debate you here, I will ask a question. How many have already been drafted, fought, and died for the right for you to sit in here and spout your drivel?

Not one single person since WW2. Even that was avoidable.

But go ahead and tell me how Vietnam and Iraq kept me safe and was for my freedom. Humor me.

Mini Me

01-10-2014, 05:31 PM

I'm libertarian/anarchocapitalist. Do try and keep up.

Haha!

Libertarians are just Rethuglicans that are too ashamed to admit they voted for Bush TWICE!

And they want to run around naked and do drugs! (joke)

Anarchocapitalism, from Wiki:

Anarcho-capitalism (also referred to as free-market anarchism,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-Stringham504-1) market anarchism,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-2) private-property anarchism[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-AL-3)) is a political philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_philosophy) which advocates the elimination of the state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_%28polity%29) in favor of individual sovereignty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ownership) in a free market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-4)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-Stringham51-5) In an anarcho-capitalist society, law enforcement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police), courts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court), and all other security services would be operated by privately funded competitors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_defense_agencies) rather than centrally through compulsory taxation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation). Money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money), along with all other goods and services, would be privately and competitively provided (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_banking) in an open market. Therefore, personal and economic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic) activities under anarcho-capitalism would be regulated by victim-based dispute resolution organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispute_resolution_organizations) under tort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort) and contract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract) law, rather than by statute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute) through punishment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punishment) and torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture) under political (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics) monopolies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopolies).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-libertarianpapers-6)
Various theorists have differing, though similar, legal philosophies which have been considered to fall under "anarcho-capitalism". However, the first person to coin the term and widely regarded as its founder, and its most well-known version, was formulated by Austrian School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School) economist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economist) and libertarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism) Murray Rothbard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard) in the mid-20th century, synthesizing elements from the Austrian School of economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School), classical liberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism), and 19th-century American individualist anarchists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualist_anarchist) Lysander Spooner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner) and Benjamin Tucker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Tucker) (while rejecting their labor theory of value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value) and the normative implications they derived from it).[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-7) A Rothbardian anarcho-capitalist society would operate under a mutually agreed-upon libertarian "legal code which would be generally accepted, and which the courts would pledge themselves to follow."[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-8) This pact would recognize sovereignty of the individual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty_of_the_individual) and the principle of non-aggression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle).

This sounds like a free for all of social Darwinism, and corporate tyranny! Fuhgettit, man!

Obamunists like Jillian are not ashamed to admit they voted for Maobama TWICE! One would think they had learned their lesson the first time around, but noooooo!

Alyosha

01-10-2014, 05:34 PM

Haha!

Libertarians are just Rethuglicans that are too ashamed to admit they voted for Bush TWICE!

You're an annoying simpleton. I find it irritating when people disregard facts to fiddle around in their own personal Insanityland.

The Xl

01-10-2014, 05:36 PM

Source on libertarians voting for Bush?

Spouting random nonsense doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like an idiot.

Chris

01-10-2014, 05:46 PM

Haha!

Libertarians are just Rethuglicans that are too ashamed to admit they voted for Bush TWICE!

And they want to run around naked and do drugs! (joke)

Anarchocapitalism, from Wiki:

Anarcho-capitalism (also referred to as free-market anarchism,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-Stringham504-1) market anarchism,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-2) private-property anarchism[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-AL-3)) is a political philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_philosophy) which advocates the elimination of the state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_%28polity%29) in favor of individual sovereignty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ownership) in a free market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-4)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-Stringham51-5) In an anarcho-capitalist society, law enforcement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police), courts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court), and all other security services would be operated by privately funded competitors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_defense_agencies) rather than centrally through compulsory taxation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation). Money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money), along with all other goods and services, would be privately and competitively provided (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_banking) in an open market. Therefore, personal and economic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic) activities under anarcho-capitalism would be regulated by victim-based dispute resolution organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispute_resolution_organizations) under tort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort) and contract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract) law, rather than by statute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute) through punishment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punishment) and torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture) under political (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics) monopolies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopolies).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-libertarianpapers-6)
Various theorists have differing, though similar, legal philosophies which have been considered to fall under "anarcho-capitalism". However, the first person to coin the term and widely regarded as its founder, and its most well-known version, was formulated by Austrian School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School) economist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economist) and libertarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism) Murray Rothbard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard) in the mid-20th century, synthesizing elements from the Austrian School of economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School), classical liberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism), and 19th-century American individualist anarchists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualist_anarchist) Lysander Spooner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner) and Benjamin Tucker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Tucker) (while rejecting their labor theory of value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value) and the normative implications they derived from it).[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-7) A Rothbardian anarcho-capitalist society would operate under a mutually agreed-upon libertarian "legal code which would be generally accepted, and which the courts would pledge themselves to follow."[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#cite_note-8) This pact would recognize sovereignty of the individual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty_of_the_individual) and the principle of non-aggression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle).

This sounds like a free for all of social Darwinism, and corporate tyranny! Fuhgettit, man!

Obamunists like Jillian are not ashamed to admit they voted for Maobama TWICE! One would think they had learned their lesson the first time around, but noooooo!

Strange, about the only thing you got right is cut'n'paste from wikipedia.

No, didn't vote for Bush. Last time I voted was for Michael Badnarik.

Social Darwinism is Progressive scientism based on a misreading of Herbert Spencer. Your spouting it puts you in the Progressive camp.

Corporations must purchase political favors from the State. Without the State, how would they be able to rent seek?

Chris

01-10-2014, 05:50 PM

You're an annoying simpleton. I find it irritating when people disregard facts to fiddle around in their own personal Insanityland.

In the Interweb anything is possible.

Ransom

01-10-2014, 05:51 PM

Not one single person since WW2. Even that was avoidable.

But go ahead and tell me how Vietnam and Iraq kept me safe and was for my freedom. Humor me.

I didn't claim Vietnam kept you safe, Iraq a different story altogether, but you seem to be saying now that since ww2....any drafting is slavery. You did see a need for a draft during ww2....?

The Xl

01-10-2014, 05:56 PM

I didn't claim Vietnam kept you safe, Iraq a different story altogether, but you seem to be saying now that since ww2....any drafting is slavery. You did see a need for a draft during ww2....?

It was politics that got us mixed up in WW2, Pearl Harbor was blowback. So, yes, even in that instance, it was slavery and avoidable.

Iraq is a different matter? How, exactly? They're small fry. Everyone in the Middle East is small fry.

Ransom

01-10-2014, 06:06 PM

It was politics that got us mixed up in WW2, Pearl Harbor was blowback. So, yes, even in that instance, it was slavery and avoidable.

Iraq is a different matter? How, exactly? They're small fry. Everyone in the Middle East is small fry.

You think it was small fry, not everyone agreed with you. One person in particular. You're not gonna stick around for the lesson, why should I teach you?

The Xl

01-10-2014, 06:09 PM

You think it was small fry, not everyone agreed with you. One person in particular. You're not gonna stick around for the lesson, why should I teach you?

I doubt you could teach me anything. All you spout is useless war propaganda and fear-mongering, none of which has a basis in reality.

I could care less who agrees with me or not. The fact of the matter is Iraq was small fry. Maybe not to Israel, but that was their problem. They're allegedly chosen by God and apparently have the birthright to live over there, so they would have been okay.

Ransom

01-10-2014, 06:14 PM

I doubt you could teach me anything. All you spout is useless war propaganda and fear-mongering, none of which has a basis in reality.

I could care less who agrees with me or not. The fact of the matter is Iraq was small fry. Maybe not to Israel, but that was there problem. They're allegedly chosen by God and apparently have the birthright to live over there, so they would have been okay.

And therein was the problem, few cared. But, I note you use the word fact there.....the person who I claim disagrees with you used that word too. Used it to send his murderers to this country, and killed thousands. Iraq turned out not to be small fry, but a primary reason we were attacked on 9-11. You knew that....right?

The Xl

01-10-2014, 06:16 PM

And therein was the problem, few cared. But, I note you use the word fact there.....the person who I claim disagrees with you used that word too. Used it to send his murderers to this country, and killed thousands. Iraq turned out not to be small fry, but a primary reason we were attacked on 9-11. You knew that....right?

Iraqi sanctions, as well as other dumb, needless shit we've done, resulted in 9/11. Osama spells it out pretty clearly in his Letter to America.

And yes, Iraq was small fry.

Ransom

01-10-2014, 06:28 PM

Iraqi sanctions, as well as other dumb, needless shit we've done, resulted in 9/11. Osama spells it out pretty clearly in his Letter to America.

And yes, Iraq was small fry.

Not only sanctions.....but our forwarding operating bases allowing President Clinton to strike repeatedly in Iraq due to their 'wmd' programs. In that letter to America, he and al-Qaeda spell out the 'three facts known to everyone', Iraq one of them, Iraq his named best proof examples of the other two. Iraq enraged OBL, he examples it thrice in that Fatwa inspiring his terrorist to attack here. These terrorists in this country since 1996, 9-11 following the attacks on US Embassies and the USS Cole. The Cole running blockade enforcing sanctions. Iraq wasn't small fry, especially for those who attacked us. It torched off a much larger conflict. You'll next be telling me terror camps in Afghanistan were small fry.

Mini Me

01-10-2014, 08:46 PM

You're an annoying simpleton. I find it irritating when people disregard facts to fiddle around in their own personal Insanityland.

So you find me annoying? OK. I like to poke fun at at political mania from either side. Its called satire.

Truth is scary sometimes. What facts are you bleating about?

Mini Me

01-10-2014, 09:03 PM

Strange, about the only thing you got right is cut'n'paste from wikipedia.

No, didn't vote for Bush. Last time I voted was for Michael Badnarik.

Social Darwinism is Progressive scientism based on a misreading of Herbert Spencer. Your spouting it puts you in the Progressive camp.

Corporations must purchase political favors from the State. Without the State, how would they be able to rent seek?

Social Darwinism is progressive? WTF? Nah, it inspired Hitler and gives the corporate elite the justification to reduce the poor to beggaring guttersnipes, as they steal all that they can steal from us.

From Wiki:

Social Darwinists generally argue that the strong should see their wealth and power increase while the weak should see their wealth and power decrease. Different social Darwinists have different views about which groups of people are the strong and the weak, and they also hold different opinions about the precise mechanism that should be used to promote strength and punish weakness. Many such views stress competition between individuals in laissez-faire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire) capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism); but similar concepts have motivated ideas of eugenics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics), racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism), imperialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism#cite_note-TCL-3) fascism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism), Nazism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism) and struggle between national or racial groups.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism#cite_note-4)

I just don't put much into dead philosophers like Spencer, as their time has long since passed and we are in a very new age, sailing into uncharted waters.

Once again, you twist the meanings of things to suit your agenda.

Mini Me

01-10-2014, 09:13 PM

Iraqi sanctions, as well as other dumb, needless shit we've done, resulted in 9/11. Osama spells it out pretty clearly in his Letter to America.

And yes, Iraq was small fry.

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the commie bogeyman, the MIC and Neocon War Group needed to invent new bogeymen, hence OBL, the Assahola of Iran, And Kim Dum Fuk of N.Korea.OBL was a creation of the CIA.

Remember Bush's "axis of evil" speech?

It was a declaration of war on radical Islam, a new Crusades. Thanx, GWB! Now we have all of Islam trying to kill us!

Chris

01-10-2014, 09:47 PM

Social Darwinism is progressive? WTF? Nah, it inspired Hitler and gives the corporate elite the justification to reduce the poor to beggaring guttersnipes, as they steal all that they can steal from us.

From Wiki:

Social Darwinists generally argue that the strong should see their wealth and power increase while the weak should see their wealth and power decrease. Different social Darwinists have different views about which groups of people are the strong and the weak, and they also hold different opinions about the precise mechanism that should be used to promote strength and punish weakness. Many such views stress competition between individuals in laissez-faire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire) capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism); but similar concepts have motivated ideas of eugenics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics), racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism), imperialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism#cite_note-TCL-3) fascism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism), Nazism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism) and struggle between national or racial groups.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism#cite_note-4)

I just don't put much into dead philosophers like Spencer, as their time has long since passed and we are in a very new age, sailing into uncharted waters.

Once again, you twist the meanings of things to suit your agenda.

Yes, it was Progressive, and it along with the Progressive Personhood argument led to euthansia, which the Nazi's borrowed for the Halocaust, and has been revived in the pro-abortion argument.

No, nothing to do with corporations.

And yes, many Progressives use it to misrepresent free markets.

You missed the point about Spencer, whoosh.

As demonstrated again, you twist words.

Chris

01-10-2014, 09:49 PM

So you find me annoying? OK. I like to poke fun at at political mania from either side. Its called satire.

Truth is scary sometimes. What facts are you bleating about?

You only hoist your own petard, strange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FnO3igOkOk

The Sage of Main Street

01-11-2014, 11:32 AM

Agree, everyone should be subject to a draft. Cuts down on wars...

We wouldn't have stayed very long in a hopeless war like Vietnam if the 1% had no way to exempt their sissyboy sons from fighting.

NATHAN HALE: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country."
NATHAN HALE VIII: "I only regret that I have but one countryman to die taking my place."

Codename Section

01-11-2014, 11:33 AM

We wouldn't have stayed very long in a hopeless war like Vietnam if the 1% had no way to exempt their sissyboy sons from fighting.

NATHAN HALE: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country."
NATHAN HALE VIII: "I only regret that I have but one countryman to die taking my place."

Agreed. There should have been no college deferments.

The Sage of Main Street

01-11-2014, 11:36 AM

Mostly a tounge in cheek comment on my part.

As far as I know, there's never been a draft w/o deferments, so there's no way to know.

PATRICK HENRY: "Give me liberty or give me death!"
PATRICK HENRY VIII: "Give me liberty or give me a draft deferment!"

The Sage of Main Street

01-11-2014, 11:40 AM

Adolf Hitler was a bleeding heart socialist liberal gun grabber who so loved the disabled and unwashed masses!

Red China was officially the "People's Republic of China," so Mao must have been a Republican!

The Sage of Main Street

01-11-2014, 11:52 AM

About # 4.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the Enviro movement could be a deliberate scheme by the corporate elite to RAISE prices of commodities by creating artificial shortages and excessive regulation especially with energy, timber, mining, water and other industries?

Notice, it sure as hell works out that way doesn't it?

If you look at all the major legislation done in the last 10-20 years, you will see that virtually all of it benefited the 1% elite fascists in some way or another! Surprising? Not really if you think about it.

.

"Paper or plastic?" The trust-fundie treehuggers have made forest products more expensive than plastic, which is a petroleum product. Big Oil out-bribed Boise-Cascade. Besides, why would Preppy Progressives snobs care about a company from an obviously Ebonic state that identifies itself by saying, "I da 'ho'"?

The Sage of Main Street

01-11-2014, 12:10 PM

Social Darwinism is progressive? WTF? Nah, it inspired Hitler and gives the corporate elite the justification to reduce the poor to beggaring guttersnipes, as they steal all that they can steal from us.

From Wiki:

Social Darwinists generally argue that the strong should see their wealth and power increase while the weak should see their wealth and power decrease. Different social Darwinists have different views about which groups of people are the strong and the weak, and they also hold different opinions about the precise mechanism that should be used to promote strength and punish weakness. Many such views stress competition between individuals in laissez-faire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire) capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism); but similar concepts have motivated ideas of eugenics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics), racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism), imperialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism#cite_note-TCL-3) fascism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism), Nazism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism) and struggle between national or racial groups.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism#cite_note-4)

I just don't put much into dead philosophers like Spencer, as their time has long since passed and we are in a very new age, sailing into uncharted waters.

Once again, you twist the meanings of things to suit your agenda.

Social Darwinism is the usual self-contradiction we get from the flunkies of the 1%. They justify inheritance because they say that the sons of the rich have inherited superior genes. Well, if the Heirheads have superior genes, they can get rich all on their own without mooching off any of Daddy's Money. Second, half their genes came from HeirDad's bimbo trophy wife, so even if someone could inherit genes like that, he would be a half-wit.

By concentrating on the Daddy's overreaching sense of superiority over his employees and not on his spawn, you're missing the point the economic elitists want to hide the most.

The Sage of Main Street

01-11-2014, 12:16 PM

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the commie bogeyman, the MIC and Neocon War Group needed to invent new bogeymen, hence OBL, the Assahola of Iran, And Kim Dum Fuk of N.Korea.OBL was a creation of the CIA.

Remember Bush's "axis of evil" speech?

It was a declaration of war on radical Islam, a new Crusades. Thanx, GWB! Now we have all of Islam trying to kill us!

The economic elite are misdirecting you to come to that conclusion. Besides, they have not been waging war against the jihadis but only benefiting the MICs. In order to crush this perpetual existential threat to civilization, we must bankrupt Islam by seizing its oilfields. Everything else is a waste of time and money, but that's what makes Dick and MIC tick.

Kalkin

01-11-2014, 12:22 PM

1. Guaranteed Work for Everybody
There already is guaranteed work for anyone willing to get up and do it. However, if you want someone else to pay you for working, you'd better do something they find necessary.

2. Social Security for All
Social Security should be a voluntary program. No one should take out more than they've contributed.

3. Take Back The Land
Taking land back that you never owned in the first place makes you as eeebil as those you wish to take it from.

4. Make Everything Owned by Everybody
Fuck that. I work hard for my shit and take care of it like I did. When you give a person something for nothing, they generally let it go to shit (see public housing).

5. A Public Bank in Every state.
No problem, as long as they support themselves. No bank bailouts ever.

Chris

01-11-2014, 12:26 PM

4. Make Everything Owned by Everybody

That's actually a misunderstanding of Socialism by the Rolling Stoner. Under socialism you would own personal property, what you create. It's just the means of production, capital, that would be owned by everybody.

Mr. Freeze

01-11-2014, 01:24 PM

No, because then you'd need a goddamn GUBMINT to make sure the cookies weren't filled with sawdust, dirt, and insect parts!

CAVEat Emptor is a sound-alike slogan for the political science of cavemen. The Unabomber also lived that lifestyle, so I guess what I'm saying is that kooks don't give out cookies.

Really? Government regulations keeps bad things out of food. I see. How do you explain this?

http://pic.epicfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/sanitization-fail-dead-mouse-loaf-bread.jpg

The UK has more food regulations than we do.

http://www.oddee.com/item_97193.aspx

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a97193_g129_3-chicken-head.jpg

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a97193_g129_4-knife.jpg

Dead frog in Pepsi anyone?

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a97193_g129_5-frog.jpg

I won't show this next picture, so I'll include the quote:

A man found part of a severed finger packed inside a pint of frozen custard he'd bought from a Kohl's Frozen Custard shop, and officials said it belonged to a worker injured in a food-processing machine accident there. The customer, Clarence Stowers, said he put the finger in his mouth, thinking it was a piece of candy when he opened the pint at home. Stowers said he spat the object out, and "I said, 'God, this ain't no nut!' So I came in here to the kitchen and rinsed it off with water and realized it was a human finger and I just started screaming."

Codename Section

01-11-2014, 02:55 PM

Jesus Chris I'd never eat out again.

The Xl

01-11-2014, 02:57 PM

Lol holy shit

Mr. Freeze

01-11-2014, 03:01 PM

When I saw the mouse in the loaf of bread I gagged.

Ransom

01-11-2014, 03:07 PM

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the commie bogeyman, the MIC and Neocon War Group needed to invent new bogeymen, hence OBL, the Assahola of Iran, And Kim Dum Fuk of N.Korea.OBL was a creation of the CIA.

Remember Bush's "axis of evil" speech?

It was a declaration of war on radical Islam, a new Crusades. Thanx, GWB! Now we have all of Islam trying to kill us!

Your thanks there to the wrong President, radical Islam + policies you support created OBL, and Bush's axis of evil speech was tight on. Dead on balls accurate. I thought I had spoken to stuff being made up, were you not in that thread, Doc? No? You just can't make things up. Not allowed. Substantiate your assertions there, back your argument. Pretend I'm from Missouri.

Guerilla

01-11-2014, 07:22 PM

1. Guaranteed Work for Everybody

2. Social Security for All

3. Take Back The Land

4. Make Everything Owned by Everybody

5. A Public Bank in Every State

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/five-economic-reforms-millennials-should-be-fighting-for-20140103#ixzz2pptdIw1g

Read it first before going all Fox-wacky. Much of this has already been put in place by conservatives... :wink:

I am a millennial and I like this list, but I also realized, about year or so ago, that I don't need everyone in America to want it or do it, in order for me to have it. All I need, is for others (statists) to leave me alone, and stop trying to force their particular ideas to be universal. Likewise I can not force my ideology to be universal, and force my particular anarchism on them.

I realized, it'd be much better, to let you, nic34, find a bunch of other nics to implement your ideas just the way you want them, with the other nics that agree with you. Then I will find other guerillas to work together with, and jillian can even find her own jillians to start a community to implement their ideas. And then we will have 1000s of voluntary communities, tailored to each ideology, doing what they think is the correct way. No libertarians, or republicans to get in the way of you or jillians great plans. No opposition. How does this not appeal to you guys?

Then we can show the world how our ideas really work, and we can all learn from each other.

Kalkin

01-11-2014, 07:29 PM

I am a millennial and I like this list, but I also realized, about year or so ago, that I don't need everyone in America to want it or do it, in order for me to have it. All I need, is for others (statists) to leave me alone, and stop trying to force their particular ideas to be universal. Likewise I can not force my ideology to be universal, and force my particular anarchism on them.

I realized, it'd be much better, to let you, @nic34 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=572), find a bunch of other nics to implement your ideas just the way you want them, with the other nics that agree with you. Then I will find other guerillas to work together with, and @jillian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=719) can even find her own jillians to start a community to implement their ideas. And then we will have 1000s of voluntary communities, tailored to each ideology, doing what they think is the correct way. No libertarians, or republicans to get in the way of you or jillians great plans. No opposition. How does this not appeal to you guys?

Then we can show the world how our ideas really work, and we can all learn from each other.
The problem with your plan is that the nics and Jillians need to enslave productive people to finance their little utopias. If not, the productive move to a place where people like you and I would prefer to live.

Guerilla

01-11-2014, 07:49 PM

The problem with your plan is that the nics and Jillians need to enslave productive people to finance their little utopias. If not, the productive move to a place where people like you and I would prefer to live.

Maybe they do need to enslave the productive. Maybe not. I don't know. And we may never know, not until they can form a community of their own to implement their ideas the way they see fit.

As it is currently, the government likely suits no individual preference. To many different ideologies are influencing the same oversized community(USA). Thus you have bits and pieces of every different thinking combined, and implemented on an enormous scale. They say anarchy is chaos, well the underlined seems extremely chaotic.

The Sage of Main Street

01-12-2014, 04:04 PM

Really? Government regulations keeps bad things out of food. I see. How do you explain this?

http://pic.epicfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/sanitization-fail-dead-mouse-loaf-bread.jpg

The UK has more food regulations than we do

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a97193_g129_3-chicken-head.jpg

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a97193_g129_4-knife.jpg

Dead frog in Pepsi anyone?

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a97193_g129_5-frog.jpg

That doesn't discredit government's duty to protect people from corporate predators. The plutocratic parasites prove their IQs are too low to enable them to run safe businesses. In order to make a profit, inferior people, such as the freeloading Heirheads at Cargill, have to bribe their fellow crooks in government to ignore their crimes against the nation.

The Sage of Main Street

01-12-2014, 04:32 PM

When I saw the mouse in the loaf of bread I gagged.

When I saw the two Chickenhawks in the White House, I gagged. I knew those tough-talking, flag-waving sissyboy snobs wouldn't care about what kind of trap they sent our troops into, so we should send their class's young men into our own trap.

Chris

01-12-2014, 04:38 PM

That doesn't discredit government's duty to protect people from corporate predators. The plutocratic parasites prove their IQs are too low to enable them to run safe businesses. In order to make a profit, inferior people, such as the freeloading Heirheads at Cargill, have to bribe their fellow crooks in government to ignore their crimes against the nation.

If freeze didn't discredit government, you sure just did. Why would our government protect parasitic corporations?

The Sage of Main Street

01-12-2014, 04:53 PM

The problem with your plan is that the nics and Jillians need to enslave productive people to finance their little utopias. If not, the productive move to a place where people like you and I would prefer to live.

Pot calling the kettle black. Owners aren't earners. You champion their flunkies, inferior people in superior position, who feed off the people they bully at work. They don't deserve any more return on their investments than bankers get; anything more than that makes them parasites.

The upper class's unfunded mandate, which they hypocritically don't order their own sons to follow, is to work without pay in college. Only a Mama's Boy who is afraid to grow up could put up with living like that until he graduates. That indentured servitude sets STEM graduates up to be patsies for the grand larceny of corporate patents. The only way people with self-respect can keep their pride while enduring college is to have the goal of infiltrating, sabotaging, and embezzling from the parasitic owners. Subconsciously, the looters at Enron were probably motivated by that kind of revenge. The most aggressive of them had made the most sacrifices in obedience to the dictates of the ruling class. Fortunately for the Wall Street dons, Ken Lay told them to sell before the bubble burst, leaving the Right Wing suckers not in the loop hanged by its noose.