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View Full Version : Chile privatised their version of SS?



Mister D
07-21-2011, 01:30 PM
Chile. At the other end of the economic spectrum, Democrats must ignore Chile’s remarkable success with privatizing its social-security program. Thirty years ago, facing a pension overhang similar to our own, Chile adopted a policy that nearly all Democrats regard with horror: They privatized their pension system. Not all at once; those who were already retired were grandfathered into the existing system. New workers were required to participate in the private retirement-account program. All other workers were offered a choice to remain with the old system or switch tothe new one. Ninety-three percent chose private accounts, conservatively managed.

How has it turned out? Over the course of three decades, despite ups and downs in the market as well as terrible earthquakes, these accounts have averaged returns 9.23 percentage points above inflation. Social Security, by contrast, averages returns of about 1 percent. In the United States, the elderly are wards of the state. Each Chilean, by contrast, has ownership of his account. He or she can pass any unused portion on to children and grandchildren. When New York Times reporter John Tierney worked out his own Social Security contributions on the Chilean model, he found that his privatized pension would have been $53,000 a year plus a one-time payout of $223,000. The same contributions paid into the American Social Security system would have paid him $18,000 a year.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/272126/truth-hurts-mona-charen

MMC
07-21-2011, 05:36 PM
Do you think that privatization of our SS.....would work D? What is the population of Chile? Can their model really be used to reflect any actual similarities to our system? :-\

Conley
07-21-2011, 06:10 PM
If W. had gotten his way and SS had been privatized, people would have lost even more in the market crashes. It would have been catastrophic. As it was people already lost their 401ks...

MMC
07-21-2011, 06:22 PM
That was one of the things I was thinking of too..... ;)

Captain Obvious
07-21-2011, 07:45 PM
That will never happen here. Lawmakers would rather see people like you and me pay hundreds of thousands of dollars each into the fund during our lifetimes and see buttkiss in return when we retire.

Capitalism drives private investment, socialism drives public funding.

Conley
07-21-2011, 08:12 PM
i would prefer we end social security all together. it really amounts to a bs ponzi scheme. the younger crowd funding the geriatrics who collect for 30 years won't see a dime of their money come back to them.

Mister D
07-21-2011, 08:26 PM
If W. had gotten his way and SS had been privatized, people would have lost even more in the market crashes. It would have been catastrophic. As it was people already lost their 401ks...


Well it's not like a 35 year old man like myself is ever going to get a Social Security check so at least I have a chance in the market.

Mister D
07-21-2011, 08:28 PM
Do you think that privatization of our SS.....would work D? What is the population of Chile? Can their model really be used to reflect any actual similarities to our system? :-\


Yes, I thin so. What difference would population size make in this case? It's not simply doing what Chile did but the Chilean example may serve as a good illustration of what is possible.

Conley
07-21-2011, 08:29 PM
If W. had gotten his way and SS had been privatized, people would have lost even more in the market crashes. It would have been catastrophic. As it was people already lost their 401ks...


Well it's not like a 35 year old man like myself is ever going to get a Social Security check so at least I have a chance in the market.


You're right about that. Freedom of choice would be nice, wouldn't it? It sucks when people make bad decisions and then expect the government to bail them out.

Mister D
07-21-2011, 08:31 PM
If W. had gotten his way and SS had been privatized, people would have lost even more in the market crashes. It would have been catastrophic. As it was people already lost their 401ks...


Well it's not like a 35 year old man like myself is ever going to get a Social Security check so at least I have a chance in the market.


You're right about that. Freedom of choice would be nice, wouldn't it? It sucks when people make bad decisions and then expect the government to bail them out.


It's important to underrstand that you are taking a risk. I agree.

Mister D
07-21-2011, 08:32 PM
But as far as SS is concerned there is no real gamble. The money will not be there when I retire.

Conley
07-21-2011, 08:37 PM
But as far as SS is concerned there is no real gamble. The money will not be there when I retire.


Yeah, you are looking at a guaranteed loss of capital. >:(

Mister D
07-21-2011, 08:52 PM
But as far as SS is concerned there is no real gamble. The money will not be there when I retire.


Yeah, you are looking at a guaranteed loss of capital. >:(


I wouldn't resent paying for current retirees or those nearing retirement if the problem was addressed. It's just not sustainable. Look, I don't have a background in economics etc but I'm not a dumb ass.

Captain Obvious
07-21-2011, 09:25 PM
i would prefer we end social security all together. it really amounts to a bs ponzi scheme. the younger crowd funding the geriatrics who collect for 30 years won't see a dime of their money come back to them.


I really don't have a problem with funding a national retirement plan, I don't.

I'm not a hardcore capitalist, conservative. We as a society should have the decency to take care of our elderly. Same with Medicaid, we as a civilized society should have the decency and wherewithal to take care of our truly underprivileged.

I'm a total liberal in this aspect, I feel great compassion for the truly poor and needy.

Our system isn't that, it isn't what it was designed or planned to be. It's a fucking cookie jar and we're spending other peoples dollars (yours and mine) on shit that it shouldn't be spent on. What pisses me off to the point of approaching violent thoughts is that I won't see a fucking dime of it even though I'm going to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars into it.

And yeah, I'm fucking pissed off.

Retirement plans are basically simple no matter how big the dollars are. You have people funding it, people drawing from it and an earnings rate. It's not a complicated calculation even when estimates are off, the over or underfunded portion gets rolled into the following year's estimates.

Fund the plan, estimate the draw and earnings and life goes on. Problem with SS is that it's been politically raided because it's a source of cash. That should be a criminal issue as far as I'm concerned considering that if a private company raided it's retirement fund to fund other operating projects, the chiefs would be in jail.

Lawmakers who raid Social Security should be criminally prosecuted. They're stealing MY and YOUR money.

MMC
07-21-2011, 09:31 PM
Yeah I am with the Cap on this too..... ;)

Captain Obvious
07-21-2011, 09:40 PM
MMC - you're going to be the first (I think) to hit 1k posts on this fledgling forum.

That one might need a special thread.

MMC
07-21-2011, 09:49 PM
Nah not me.....looks like CL is on that track. :'( dagnabit.... >:D

Conley
07-21-2011, 10:00 PM
holy crap i need to get a life...

but if you subtract my posts about JLC I'm really only around 800

and apparently I'm nothing to Cap'n :'(

Captain Obvious
07-21-2011, 10:49 PM
Sorry Conley, my bad.

That's a big milestone for the forum IMO.

Conley
07-21-2011, 10:50 PM
Sorry Conley, my bad.

That's a big milestone for the forum IMO.


All good Cap'n, just don't miss my 2000th ;D

MMC
07-21-2011, 11:05 PM
Now that sounds like something Jamie le.....erm I mean Pete Rose would say. >:D ;D :D

Conley
07-21-2011, 11:26 PM
ROFL!

Conley
07-24-2011, 11:44 AM
good quote from FaceBook (yeah, it might be the first one):

From a guy turning 65:

"Entitlement" my ass, I PAID cash for my social security insurance! Our benefits aren't some kind of charity or handout. Congressional benefits -- free premium federal health care, enormous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, 3 weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days -- now THAT is welfare! And they have the nerve to call my retirement "entitlement"?

Mister D
07-24-2011, 12:04 PM
good quote from FaceBook (yeah, it might be the first one):

From a guy turning 65:

"Entitlement" my ass, I PAID cash for my social security insurance! Our benefits aren't some kind of charity or handout. Congressional benefits -- free premium federal health care, enormous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, 3 weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days -- now THAT is welfare! And they have the nerve to call my retirement "entitlement"?


67 paid holidays? Seriously? I get about 7. >:(

Conley
07-24-2011, 12:09 PM
i should probably fact check that part. the guys are off a lot though...for a whole week right now in fact.

Mister D
07-24-2011, 01:15 PM
i should probably fact check that part. the guys are off a lot though...for a whole week right now in fact.


I know they are always about to break for recess... ::) Seriously, that always seems to come up when they have something important to vote on.