History of Flags

[Max Rockatansky]

This thread is open to anyone who wants to post something about a historical flag, banner, pennant or the like.


One of the great things I love about the Internet is how I can find tidbits about history then follow those bits into different paths.

The latest one was looking over the history of the suggested in Robert Heinlein's book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" about a revolt by Lunar colonists against their Earthly oppressors. The idea of the flag, a black flag with a red slash, a starry background and a brass cannon. The idea of the flag was loosely based, I found, upon the Gonzales flag from the Texas Revolution and the brass cannon symbolized the same thing: "Come and Take It". This quote, in turn, was taken from the ancient Greek "Molon Labe" (Come and take them). The phrase had been also used during the American Revolution six decades previous to the Texas Revolution.

http://rehtwogunraconteur.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Come-and-Take-It-Flag.jpg
Continued....

[Heyduke]

The first American flag
http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/21523-The-Liberty-Tree

http://www3.villanova.edu/centennial/Js1g_h1.jpg

[Max Rockatansky]

The Texas Revolution saw several flags in use along with the Gonzales Flag. The battle of the Alamo featured three different flags; the more commonly known 1824 flag, the New Orleans Greys flag (captured by the Mexicans and trotted off to rot in Mexico City) and a flag William Travis brought with him but has been lost to time.
http://www.farwest.it/FOTOxSITO/alamo-battle-flag.jpg

http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/images/nogreyflg.jpg
http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/indepenflgs.htm

Continued....

[Mister D]

I never bothered to get a digital camera. I have a bunch of historical flags

[Mister D]

The flags at the Confederate Museum in New Orleans were cool.

[Max Rockatansky]

At the Battle of San Jacinto (21APR1836) which ended up in a resounding, hugely lopsided defeat of Santa Ana's army and secured independence for Texas, the Texicans raced through the Mexican Army encampment yelling "Remember the Alamo!" and "Remember Goliad!".

Everyone remembers the battle of the Alamo (6MAR1836), but few outside of Texas High School graduates remember Goliad. The Goliad Massacre took place on March 27, 1836 when 303 Texans were marched out onto a road and shot point-blank. Those who survived the shooting were beaten to death. Prior to the shooting, those who couldn't walk had already been beaten to death. In total, 342 Texicans were murdered on orders of Santa Ana. These are two of the flags thought to have flown at Goliad:

http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/images/dimmitsarmflg.gif

http://www.ultimateflags.com/images/P/goliad-texas-battle-flag.jpg

So why do people "Remember the Alamo" but don't "Remember Goliad"? My guess is that, despite the tragedy and injustice of a massacre, the Texans at Goliad had surrendered. The Alamo defenders did not. Americans tend to remember most those who fight to the bitter end.

[Max Rockatansky]

I never bothered to get a digital camera. I have a bunch of historical flags

You don't have one on your cell phone? If you have a cell phone, that is. Digital cameras are relatively inexpensive and handy to have. Most modern ones also have a video function so you can video events for as long as your memory card is capable.

I have a little assortment of historical flags myself in my hangar. Stars and Bars, 1824, Gadsden, Marine Corps and, of course, the US to name a few.

[Mister D]

You don't have one on your cell phone? If you have a cell phone, that is. Digital cameras are relatively inexpensive and handy to have. Most modern ones also have a video function so you can video events for as long as your memory card is capable.

I have a little assortment of historical flags myself in my hangar. Stars and Bars, 1824, Gadsden, Marine Corps and, of course, the US to name a few.

Cool.

Mine are mostly Third Reich but I also have a VC, NVA, and a Carlist Flag from the Spanish Civil War.

Yeah, I know they're cheap.

[Cigar]

I remember my brother use to have this Flag in his room ...

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4997547864295011&pid=1.7

[Max Rockatansky]

I remember my brother use to have this Flag in his room ...

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4997547864295011&pid=1.7

Good! Now you have a better understanding of why many young American males have this flag in their room:

http://flaglane.com/download/confederate-flag/confederate-flag-small.gif

It's what I had. Where some people see a black raised fist as being racist, I'm sure you see it as simply an act of defiance to oppression. That is exactly how many young American men see the "Rebel" flag; as a symbol of rebellion against the status quo. Young people, go figure, eh?

[Max Rockatansky]

Cool.

Mine are mostly Third Reich but I also have a VC, NVA, and a Carlist Flag from the Spanish Civil War.

Yeah, I know they're cheap.

I have a German Naval flag, a Chinese PRC flag, an Israeli flag, a USSR flag and, one of my favorites, a Jolly Roger. I used to have the Jolly Roger hanging in my living room after my (now ex) wife left, but I've since taken it down after redecorating. All the other flags are in my closet. I should look at hanging them with the others.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/War_Ensign_of_Germany_1892-1903.svg/320px-War_Ensign_of_Germany_1892-1903.svg.png
http://www.todayifoundout.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/jolly-roger.jpg

[Mister D]

I have a German Naval flag, a Chinese PRC flag, an Israeli flag, a USSR flag and, one of my favorites, a Jolly Roger. I used to have the Jolly Roger hanging in my living room after my (now ex) wife left, but I've since taken it down after redecorating. All the other flags are in my closet. I should look at hanging them with the others.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/War_Ensign_of_Germany_1892-1903.svg/320px-War_Ensign_of_Germany_1892-1903.svg.png
http://www.todayifoundout.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/jolly-roger.jpg

That imperial flag is cool.

I can't hang the swastikas for obvious reasons unless it's in the "man cave".

[Max Rockatansky]

I can't quite bring myself to fly a Nazi flag. I will confess to having once bought an SS officer's hat for my girlfriend of the time to wear while we frolicked in the boudoir.

Something like this:
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/nazi-girls1/images/Japanese Nazi Girl 3.jpg

[Mister D]

I can't quite bring myself to fly a Nazi flag. I will confess to having once bought an SS officer's hat for my girlfriend of the time to wear while we frolicked in the boudoir.

Something like this:
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/nazi-girls1/images/Japanese Nazi Girl 3.jpg

If thew neighbors can't see it I would and probably will at some point. They are all vintage.

[Max Rockatansky]

If thew neighbors can't see it I would and probably will at some point. They are all vintage.

There's a difference between history and worship. I have the PRC and USSR flags for history reasons. If it's presented as a collection of WWII flags, only the most left-wing wingnut would bitch.

Another flag I have (or used to have), plus Kamikaze head band, is the Japanese Rising Sun flag. I'll have to dig through my stuff to see if it's in there. I lost a lot of stuff, including the SS hat in my first divorce back in 97 so I don't even know if it's in my footlockers and seabags of stuff or not. The headband was of more recent purchase.

http://www.patchesofpride.com/images/splashpics3/headbandcloseup.jpg

[Mister D]

There's a difference between history and worship. I have the PRC and USSR flags for history reasons. If it's presented as a collection of WWII flags, only the most left-wing wingnut would bitch.

Another flag I have (or used to have), plus Kamikaze head band, is the Japanese Rising Sun flag. I'll have to dig through my stuff to see if it's in there. I lost a lot of stuff, including the SS hat in my first divorce back in 97 so I don't even know if it's in my footlockers and seabags of stuff or not. The headband was of more recent purchase.

http://www.patchesofpride.com/images/splashpics3/headbandcloseup.jpg

Oh, I agre. I just mean if people who don't know you see that it's kind of awkward.

The Imperial Japanese stuff is cool. I have a patrotic flag signed by a bunch of the guy's freidns and relatives.

[Max Rockatansky]

Mister D
What kind of flag and who signed it?

I haven't had time today, but after reading about "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" flag (I've read the novel a few times, but that was literally decades ago when I was in HS and College) and Heinlein's inspiration for it (the Gonzales flag), I thought about designing one that would look more like a real flag. I lifted my present avatar off the Internet. It's nice, but makes a better sticker than a flag.

Googling "TANSTAAFL flag" brings up several versions, but none look like the Gonzales flag. Some would be impractical to sew stars onto.
http://www.fahnenversand.de/fotw/images/f/fic_mihm.gifhttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/10/myi4.jpghttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/542/1l3k.jpg

I'm thinking the same red and black part, but with stars similar to the Alaskan or EU flags and then a gold cannon barrel like the Gonzales flag.

http://www.50states.com/flag/image/nunst003.gifhttp://europa.eu/about-eu/basic-information/symbols/images/flag_yellow_low.jpg


http://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog/30470.jpg

http://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog/RB011a.jpg

The barrel I'd choose would be the 24 pounder Naval cannon used on the USS Constitution.

http://www.hmdb.org/Photos1/129/Photo129830.jpg

[Mister D]

It's a small, personal meatball flag that troops would carry to war. I didn't know of that tradition until I saw this flag. I can't read Japanese but it has slogans like "boiling blood!" on it. I was thinking of asking the sushi guy but that might be weird. :undecided:

The naval gun looks best, IMHO.

[Max Rockatansky]

It's a small, personal meatball flag that troops would carry to war. I didn't know of that tradition until I saw this flag. I can't read Japanese but it has slogans like "boiling blood!" on it. I was thinking of asking the sushi guy but that might be weird. :undecided:

The naval gun looks best, IMHO.

Go for it! That's a sweet piece of history and the more you know about it, the better. Well worth preserving.

Ask the Sushi guy. OTOH, he could be Korean or Chinese. :)

As a (currently) amateur welder (my eventual retirement job), one project I have in mind is to build a flag pole. I'm thinking about 15 feet, but in the form of a yardarm.

I'd fly the US flag on the top and whatever suited my mood underneath. My current thinking is to either make or have made a TANSTAAFL flag.

http://www.quinnflags.com/images/NauticalJ.jpg

[Heyduke]

My Great Grandfather was in WWI and WWII in the South Pacific, career navy guy. I've got his flag with red and white stripes and 13 stars around an anchor. I need to have it cleaned so I can fly in on 4th of July. It got really dusty and moldy in my Dad's garage for decades.

[Max Rockatansky]

My Great Grandfather was in WWI and WWII in the South Pacific, career navy guy. I've got his flag with red and white stripes and 13 stars around an anchor. I need to have it cleaned so I can fly in on 4th of July. It got really dusty and moldy in my Dad's garage for decades.

Another great piece of history. You might want to have it professionally cleaned and protected from further damage. Do you have a picture of it?

[Heyduke]

Another great piece of history. You might want to have it professionally cleaned and protected from further damage. Do you have a picture of it?

I'm a Luddite caveman. I have a $10 Trac phone and my # is registered to 'James Bond' (pay by the minute), and no camera, and besides I'm about 350 miles away from home right now, typing on my buddy's computer.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm a Luddite caveman. I have a $10 Trac phone and my # is registered to 'James Bond' (pay by the minute), and no camera, and besides I'm about 350 miles away from home right now, typing on my buddy's computer.

You don't have to do it immediately, but it's an important part of history.