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Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 11:50 AM
I'm excited about seeing these in the stores but if they cost more than regular tomatoes, they can go fuck themselves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25885756



The prospect of genetically modified purple tomatoes reaching the shelves has come a step closer.


Their dark pigment is intended to give tomatoes the same potential health benefits as fruit such as blueberries.


Developed in Britain, large-scale production is now under way in Canada with the first 1,200 litres of purple tomato juice ready for shipping.


The pigment, known as anthocyanin, is an antioxidant which studies on animals show could help fight cancer.


Scientists say the new tomatoes could improve the nutritional value of everything from ketchup to pizza topping.


The tomatoes were developed at the John Innes Centre in Norwich where Prof Cathie Martin hopes the first delivery of large quantities of juice will allow researchers to investigate its potential.


"With these purple tomatoes you can get the same compounds that are present in blueberries and cranberries that give them their health benefits - but you can apply them to foods that people actually eat in significant amounts and are reasonably affordable," she said.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72512000/jpg/_72512337_tomat_01.jpg

Codename Section
01-25-2014, 11:52 AM
Heirlooms tomatoes have been purple. My mom had Cherokee Purples. Great tasting when picked fresh and a little bit of salt. Jesus that's good.

Anyone have a BLT in the summertime with garden fresh tomatoes?

I miss my mom :(

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 11:57 AM
I grow tomatoes and hot peppers in a small garden. Nothing beats homegrown tomatoes in a salad or homemade salsa.

Codename Section
01-25-2014, 12:00 PM
I grow tomatoes and hot peppers in a small garden. Nothing beats homegrown tomatoes in a salad or homemade salsa.

Got a good hot sauce recipe?

Heyduke
01-25-2014, 12:01 PM
Heirlooms tomatoes have been purple. My mom had Cherokee Purples. Great tasting when picked fresh and a little bit of salt. Jesus that's good.

Anyone have a BLT in the summertime with garden fresh tomatoes?

I miss my mom :(

That's what I was going to say. There's already purple heirloom varieties. Glow in the dark rabbits, now that's something new.
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18wx41gbsqa5ejpg/original.jpg

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 12:15 PM
Heirlooms tomatoes have been purple. My mom had Cherokee Purples. Great tasting when picked fresh and a little bit of salt. Jesus that's good.

Anyone have a BLT in the summertime with garden fresh tomatoes?

I miss my mom :(

Fresh is so much better than store bought.

undine
01-25-2014, 12:19 PM
Why not just eat blueberries? This genetic modification stuff is getting out of hand.

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 12:38 PM
Got a good hot sauce recipe?

Not hot sauce, but nothing beats chunky salsa using fresh ingredients. Adding mango or peaches just adds to the flavor.

Example: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/mango-salsa/

I like using plum or roma tomatoes, very ripe, because the ripeness adds flavor and the smaller tomatoes have more skin than volume adding to the texture/chunkiness. I don't grow jalapenos because they are cheap in the stores so I grow serranos and anaheims for salsa. I've also grown habaneros, cowhorn and banana peppers for both stews and salads.

Mangos, along with the cilantro, are store bought.

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 12:39 PM
Why not just eat blueberries? This genetic modification stuff is getting out of hand.

Don't buy it then.

Off hand, I'd say tomato plants are easier to grow and have a greater fruit output than a blueberry bush. Have you ever tried to grow either?

undine
01-25-2014, 01:47 PM
Don't buy it then.

Off hand, I'd say tomato plants are easier to grow and have a greater fruit output than a blueberry bush. Have you ever tried to grow either?Both, actually. Problem with genetic modification is that it gets mixed up with regular crops so it is hard to avoid. Instead of perverting the food supply further it would make more sense to eat things that are already good for you.

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 01:52 PM
Both, actually. Problem with genetic modification is that it gets mixed up with regular crops so it is hard to avoid. Instead of perverting the food supply further it would make more sense to eat things that are already good for you.

Can't the same be said for vaccinations for domestic livestock? Fertilizing crops and applying insecticide? How many people would starve in the world if all farmers and ranchers went "organic" and used only "natural" means to farm and ranch?

undine
01-25-2014, 01:55 PM
Can't the same be said for vaccinations for domestic livestock? Fertilizing crops and applying insecticide? How many people would starve in the world if all farmers and ranchers went "organic" and used only "natural" means to farm and ranch?
Why are you moving the goal posts? None of those things are genetic modification and don't jump across crops.

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 01:59 PM
Why are you moving the goal posts? None of those things are genetic modification and don't jump across crops.

Not at all. Just pointing out that if all people took your attitude of opposing "artificial" means to improve crops and livestock in the past 100 years, there would be a lot less people and a lot more starvation and famine.

Are there problems? Yes. Are there dangers? Yes. Does it disturb me that some people "own" the patents on genetic crops and will sue a farmer into bankruptcy if they violate that patent, even if inadvertently because the seed blew over the fence and mixed with regular crops? Yes.

Does this mean I am against GM and think we should do the impossible by putting the Genie back in the Bottle? No. That would be stupid.

We can only go forward, not backward. Recognizing that, we should answer the above questions, not stand about bitching about how GM will kill us all and try to make it illegal like a bunch of Republicans trying to repeal the ACA.

Codename Section
01-25-2014, 02:12 PM
Plus Monsanto's now letting their shit pollute everyone's crops and penalizing them using patent laws. Fuckers.

undine
01-25-2014, 02:25 PM
Not at all. Just pointing out that if all people took your attitude of opposing "artificial" means to improve crops and livestock in the past 100 years, there would be a lot less people and a lot more starvation and famine.

Are there problems? Yes. Are there dangers? Yes. Does it disturb me that some people "own" the patents on genetic crops and will sue a farmer into bankruptcy if they violate that patent, even if inadvertently because the seed blew over the fence and mixed with regular crops? Yes.

Does this mean I am against GM and think we should do the impossible by putting the Genie back in the Bottle? No. That would be stupid.

We can only go forward, not backward. Recognizing that, we should answer the above questions, not stand about bitching about how GM will kill us all and try to make it illegal like a bunch of Republicans trying to repeal the ACA.
Ever since we stopped being hunter gathers we've screwed with crops and bred most of their nutrients out. Now we'll get to a point where some bug will come along and wipe out all the genetically modified garbage and we'll all starve to death. Some things are just idiotic, and GM is one of them.

Codename Section
01-25-2014, 02:30 PM
Ever since we stopped being hunter gathers we've screwed with crops and bred most of their nutrients out. Now we'll get to a point where some bug will come along and wipe out all the genetically modified garbage and we'll all starve to death. Some things are just idiotic, and GM is one of them.

Go "undine"!

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 02:31 PM
Plus Monsanto's now letting their shit pollute everyone's crops and penalizing them using patent laws. Fuckers.

Agreed, which is why we need a united front on how to handle this new technology. Without profit, companies like Monsanto wouldn't invest millions to develop it. However, letting them profit from it forever at the expense of them controlling the nation's entire produce food supply is a huge national security issue. Limits need to be set. That is a purpose of government, to protect the best interests of "We, the People".

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 02:36 PM
Ever since we stopped being hunter gathers we've screwed with crops and bred most of their nutrients out. Now we'll get to a point where some bug will come along and wipe out all the genetically modified garbage and we'll all starve to death. Some things are just idiotic, and GM is one of them.

Bred most of their nutrients out? Are you saying that walnuts, tomatoes and cattle don't have the same nutrients these days as 1000 years ago?

Do you have any evidence to support this supposition?

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 05:54 PM
Can't the same be said for vaccinations for domestic livestock? Fertilizing crops and applying insecticide? How many people would starve in the world if all farmers and ranchers went "organic" and used only "natural" means to farm and ranch?

If it was done correctly, largely none. Although it might require people to decide to not live where you can't grow food.

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 05:56 PM
Bred most of their nutrients out? Are you saying that walnuts, tomatoes and cattle don't have the same nutrients these days as 1000 years ago?

Do you have any evidence to support this supposition?

They don't, but it wasn't bred out- the soils has been overworked. There are plenty of studies that show how much nutrient loss there has been over the years- this is associated with the large mono-crop factory farms.

Mister D
01-25-2014, 05:58 PM
Ever since we stopped being hunter gathers we've screwed with crops and bred most of their nutrients out. Now we'll get to a point where some bug will come along and wipe out all the genetically modified garbage and we'll all starve to death. Some things are just idiotic, and GM is one of them.

What? First of all, we didn't have any crops as "hunter gathers". Secondly, what crops have had their nutrients bred out?

Mister D
01-25-2014, 05:59 PM
Bred most of their nutrients out? Are you saying that walnuts, tomatoes and cattle don't have the same nutrients these days as 1000 years ago?

Do you have any evidence to support this supposition?

It's nonsense.

undine
01-25-2014, 06:02 PM
Bred most of their nutrients out? Are you saying that walnuts, tomatoes and cattle don't have the same nutrients these days as 1000 years ago?

Do you have any evidence to support this supposition?Yes.

Here's a good place to start.

http://www.amazon.com/Eating-Wild-Side-Missing-Optimum/dp/0316227943

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:04 PM
Yes.

Here's a good place to start.

http://www.amazon.com/Eating-Wild-Side-Missing-Optimum/dp/0316227943

Translation: no

undine
01-25-2014, 06:05 PM
What? First of all, we didn't have any crops as "hunter gathers". Secondly, what crops have had their nutrients bred out?
You are correct that we didn't have crops as hunter gathers.

Most crops have been fiddled with to make them taste better. Read the book I linked to Max.

undine
01-25-2014, 06:05 PM
Translation: no
Whatever, dude. Keep your head in the sand and die from diabetes.

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:06 PM
Whatever, dude. Keep your head in the sand and die from diabetes.

I'm probably the healthiest member here. :smiley:

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:07 PM
You are correct that we didn't have crops as hunter gathers.

Most crops have been fiddled with to make them taste better. Read the book I linked to Max.

I'm always correct.

All crops are "fiddled with" by definition. So you have no examples?

undine
01-25-2014, 06:14 PM
I'm always correct.

All crops are "fiddled with" by definition. So you have no examples?Yeah, tomatoes and corn for example.

Tomatoes were cultivated to make them tastier (less acidic) and corn to make it sweeter.

Don't get me started on Vidalia onions.

Fact of the matter is that genetically modified food is a stupid way to correct a problem that could be corrected by going back to food that historically nurished us all.

Irish potato famine, anyone?

Heyduke
01-25-2014, 06:19 PM
Irish potato famine, anyone?

Exactly. Mono-cropping is not the way to go.

"Modern Farmer magazine discovered that there is a movement among farmers abandoning genetically modified organisms (http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/12/18/farmer-blames-gmo-feed-for-pig-deformities-and-deaths/) (GMO) because of simple economics."
http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/01/06/farmers-abandoning-gmo-seeds-and-the-reason-will-surprise-you/

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:30 PM
Yeah, tomatoes and corn for example.

Tomatoes were cultivated to make them tastier (less acidic) and corn to make it sweeter.

Don't get me started on Vidalia onions.

Fact of the matter is that genetically modified food is a stupid way to correct a problem that could be corrected by going back to food that historically nurished us all.

Irish potato famine, anyone?

You're confused. Corn (maize) only exists because of humans and it has plenty of nutrients It was the staple crop of the Aztecs, Maya, etc. and still is in that region. You appear to thinking of sweet corn. That's about 150 years old.

Yeah, taste is important.

Thank you for not getting started on Vidalia onions.

That's all well and good but that's not what you said.

Their potatoes had a range of vitamins, protein, and fiber. The problem was the plants died.

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:31 PM
Exactly. Mono-cropping is not the way to go.

"Modern Farmer magazine discovered that there is a movement among farmers abandoning genetically modified organisms (http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/12/18/farmer-blames-gmo-feed-for-pig-deformities-and-deaths/) (GMO) because of simple economics."
http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/01/06/farmers-abandoning-gmo-seeds-and-the-reason-will-surprise-you/

Agreed

undine
01-25-2014, 06:32 PM
You're confused. Corn (maize) only exists because of humans and it has plenty of nutrients It was the staple crop of the Aztecs, Maya, etc. and still is in that region. You appear to thinking of sweet corn. That's about 150 years old.

Yeah, taste is important.

Thank you for not getting started on Vidalia onions.

That's all well and good but that's not what you said.

Their potatoes had a range of vitamins, protein, and fiber. The problem was the plants died.
What I said was breeding things for taste screws up the nutritional value. I also expressed no regret if you died of diabetes.

undine
01-25-2014, 06:33 PM
Oh, and who eats maize?

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:35 PM
Oh, and who eats maize?


Maize and cornmeal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornmeal) (ground dried maize) constitute a staple food (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple_food) in many regions of the world.

Maize is central to Mexican food (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_food). Virtually every dish in Mexican cuisine uses maize. On form of grain or cornmeal, maize is the main ingredient of tortillas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortillas), tamales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamale), pozole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozole), atole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atole) and all the dishes based on them, like tacos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco), quesadillas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quesadilla), chilaquiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilaquiles), enchiladas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchilada), tostadas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tostada_%28tortilla%29) and many more. In Mexico even a fungus of maize, known as huitlacoche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huitlacoche) is considered a delicacy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maize#Human_food

Heyduke
01-25-2014, 06:35 PM
Maize? I think you need to dry it and grind it into masa harina.

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:36 PM
Oh, and who eats maize?

You do if you like popcorn! :grin:

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:36 PM
What I said was breeding things for taste screws up the nutritional value. I also expressed no regret if you died of diabetes.

Classy.

undine
01-25-2014, 06:37 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maize#Human_food
Do you eat it?

undine
01-25-2014, 06:37 PM
Classy.
Classy, no. Honest, oh yeah

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:38 PM
Do you eat it?

Sure do. I love popcorn. Has a lot of nutrients too. :grin:

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:38 PM
Classy, no. Honest, oh yeah

no doubt.

undine
01-25-2014, 06:39 PM
Maize? I think you need to dry it and grind it into masa harina.and make tortillas out of it :)

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 06:53 PM
Translation: no

I would say yes. You can even taste the difference. And the science can verify the quality difference.

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:57 PM
I would say yes. You can even taste the difference. And the science can verify the quality difference.

So the asparagus and cauliflower I just ate was devoid of nutrients?

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 06:57 PM
So the asparagus and cauliflower I just ate was devoid of nutrients?

Where did they come from?

Mister D
01-25-2014, 06:58 PM
Where did they come from?

The store. They were devoid of nutrients?

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 07:02 PM
The store. They were devoid of nutrients?

I would guess that they had much less nutrients than the same crop 50 years ago. But your answer doesn't help. Where did they come from? Where were they grown? Under what conditions?

Shop local, shop from sustainable farmers. You will tell the difference as soon as you eat it.

Mister D
01-25-2014, 07:05 PM
I would guess that they had much less nutrients than the same crop 50 years ago. But your answer doesn't help. Where did they come from? Where were they grown? Under what conditions?

Shop local, shop from sustainable farmers. You will tell the difference as soon as you eat it.

Actually, I never have. noticed a difference that is. If the market produce is fresh there is no difference in terms of nutrition or taste. Granted, the latter is subjective.

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 07:12 PM
Actually, I never have. noticed a difference that is. If the market produce is fresh there is no difference in terms of nutrition or taste. Granted, the latter is subjective.

What can I tell you? I do feel sorry for you that you don't have sensitive taste buds. You are missing out. The easiest test is with the tomato. Give it a shot. Another big one is the difference in taste between corn feed and grass feed beef. That is so pronounced that my preference for cut of meat is totally different between the two.

Chicken is another good one. Get some KFC (sorry @Code Section) and strip off the layers of fried crap. Eat the "chicken". Then get a similar cut from a farmers market and note the difference in size, texture, taste, and general good feelings while eating it. And if your taste buds have been dipped in acid and you can't tell, then focus on the moral issues. Il Papa would wish it for you.

Mister D
01-25-2014, 07:16 PM
What can I tell you? I do feel sorry for you that you don't have sensitive taste buds. You are missing out. The easiest test is with the tomato. Give it a shot. Another big one is the difference in taste between corn feed and grass feed beef. That is so pronounced that my preference for cut of meat is totally different between the two.

Chicken is another good one. Get some KFC (sorry @Code Section) and strip off the layers of fried crap. Eat the "chicken". Then get a similar cut from a farmers market and note the difference in size, texture, taste, and general good feelings while eating it. And if your taste buds have been dipped in acid and you can't tell, then focus on the moral issues. Il Papa would wish it for you.

I find the arguments you make about meat much more convincing.

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 07:22 PM
I find the arguments you make about meat much more convincing.

Meat is certainly much more clear. I can pick individual ingredients out of a meal, so I do taste the difference between a fresh veggie as opposed to one that is less than fresh.

Mister D
01-25-2014, 07:24 PM
Meat is certainly much more clear. I can pick individual ingredients out of a meal, so I do taste the difference between a fresh veggie as opposed to one that is less than fresh.

With meat I can almost see the difference. I say almost cuz I'm not sure if it's my imagination.

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 07:29 PM
With meat I can almost see the difference. I say almost cuz I'm not sure if it's my imagination.

Go to a butcher- you will really see the difference if they let you in back and see what the organs of the corn (gm corn) fed animals looks like.

As far as chickens go, a factory farmed chicken who spent its life unmovable is going to have tasty legs like a free range chicken? :cool2:

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 07:33 PM
With meat I can almost see the difference. I say almost cuz I'm not sure if it's my imagination.

Save up some cash. I will take you to southern France to test your food theories.

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 09:09 PM
If it was done correctly, largely none. Although it might require people to decide to not live where you can't grow food.

Like cities. You know, there places where there are factories that make things like tractors, hoes and guns or refineries that make gasoline or fuel oil to run power plants.

Good luck farming your land with a wooden stick. Hope you have a good crop, because a failure not only means no food, but no seed for next year.

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 09:13 PM
They don't, but it wasn't bred out- the soils has been overworked. There are plenty of studies that show how much nutrient loss there has been over the years- this is associated with the large mono-crop factory farms.

I haven't seen anything like that. What I have seen is that crops are picked prematurely to ripen on the way to market. This may have a result on nutrients, although I haven't heard that, but it definitely has a result on flavor in some things like tomatoes. Potatoes not so much

Peter1469
01-25-2014, 09:43 PM
If you claim that sustainable farming is using a stick, I would say you are a fraud. And I suspect you know it. :smiley: Sorry, stupidity can't account for it.


Like cities. You know, there places where there are factories that make things like tractors, hoes and guns or refineries that make gasoline or fuel oil to run power plants.

Good luck farming your land with a wooden stick. Hope you have a good crop, because a failure not only means no food, but no seed for next year.

Max Rockatansky
01-25-2014, 09:56 PM
If you claim that sustainable farming is using a stick, I would say you are a fraud.

No, I'm saying it's impractical for a modern society to be supported by everyone living on their own 40 acres and working it with a mule.

undine
01-26-2014, 06:01 AM
You're confused. Corn (maize) only exists because of humans and it has plenty of nutrients It was the staple crop of the Aztecs, Maya, etc. and still is in that region. You appear to thinking of sweet corn. That's about 150 years old.

Yeah, taste is important.

Thank you for not getting started on Vidalia onions.

That's all well and good but that's not what you said.

Their potatoes had a range of vitamins, protein, and fiber. The problem was the plants died.
Sweet corn is the result of human tinkering with maize. Now it contains mostly sugars with hardly any of the nutrients of ancient corn. I don't know if the original maize is still cultivated but it sure doesn't show up in the grocery stores.

undine
01-26-2014, 06:13 AM
And yes, your asparagus and cauliflower was good for you. But wild asparagus is much more nutritional. And colorful cauliflower has more nutrients than white.

jillian
01-26-2014, 06:17 AM
If it was done correctly, largely none. Although it might require people to decide to not live where you can't grow food.

except that isn't going to happen.

most people live in cities because that's where jobs, etc., are.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 08:46 AM
Sweet corn is the result of human tinkering with maize. Now it contains mostly sugars with hardly any of the nutrients of ancient corn. I don't know if the original maize is still cultivated but it sure doesn't show up in the grocery stores.

Maize itself is the result of human tinkering (all crops are by definition) and it is a staple in certain regions today. Yes, sweet corn lacks many of the nutrients of maize but who cares?

Mister D
01-26-2014, 08:47 AM
And yes, your asparagus and cauliflower was good for you. But wild asparagus is much more nutritional. And colorful cauliflower has more nutrients than white.

Yes, they were very good for me.

undine
01-26-2014, 09:09 AM
Maize itself is the result of human tinkering (all crops are by definition) and it is a staple in certain regions today. Yes, sweet corn lacks many of the nutrients of maize but who cares?

It is a staple in certain regions but not widely available because most prefer food that has had the nutrients bred out of them in favor of sweetness.

Who cares? Everyone should, especially in this country where obesity and diabetes are rampant.

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 09:13 AM
I'm probably the healthiest member here. :smiley:

((taps shoulder))

Ahem.

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 09:16 AM
What can I tell you? I do feel sorry for you that you don't have sensitive taste buds. You are missing out. The easiest test is with the tomato. Give it a shot. Another big one is the difference in taste between corn feed and grass feed beef. That is so pronounced that my preference for cut of meat is totally different between the two.

Chicken is another good one. Get some KFC (sorry @Code Section) and strip off the layers of fried crap. Eat the "chicken". Then get a similar cut from a farmers market and note the difference in size, texture, taste, and general good feelings while eating it. And if your taste buds have been dipped in acid and you can't tell, then focus on the moral issues. Il Papa would wish it for you.

Dude, KFC is shit. Popeyes is BEAST.

And you're right I can tell the difference between local grown and the shit you get in stores. The porkchops I buy off Freeze are 10x better (more fatty tho) than the stuff even from Wegmans. I had a backyard (back deck) tomato and pepper plants and they were awesome. Brandywine plants got seriously about 5ft tall with big huge sandwich tomatoes.

Yum. :(

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 09:39 AM
undine

Check this out

http://www.occupy.com/article/revealed-deadly-rogue-gene-discovered-monsantos-gmo-crops#sthash.0XOjAXzU.dpuf

Mister D
01-26-2014, 09:43 AM
((taps shoulder))

Ahem.

nigga please...:rollseyes:

Mister D
01-26-2014, 09:44 AM
Dude, KFC is shit. Popeyes is BEAST.

And you're right I can tell the difference between local grown and the shit you get in stores. The porkchops I buy off Freeze are 10x better (more fatty tho) than the stuff even from Wegmans. I had a backyard (back deck) tomato and pepper plants and they were awesome. Brandywine plants got seriously about 5ft tall with big huge sandwich tomatoes.

Yum. :(

It is better than KFC for whatever that's worth.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 09:47 AM
@undine (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=980)

Check this out

http://www.occupy.com/article/revealed-deadly-rogue-gene-discovered-monsantos-gmo-crops#sthash.0XOjAXzU.dpuf


LOL. That's sure to throw all the "anti-science “progressive” " types into a tizzy!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentine/2013/01/30/can-your-rose-bush-catch-your-cold-threat-of-killer-viral-plant-gene-is-the-latest-anti-gmo-activist-rant/

Mister D
01-26-2014, 09:48 AM
It is a staple in certain regions but not widely available because most prefer food that has had the nutrients bred out of them in favor of sweetness.

Who cares? Everyone should, especially in this country where obesity and diabetes are rampant.

Maize is widely consumed in parts of Latin America. It's also consumed here in the form of popcorn which is actually quite a healthy snack.

The problem is that people eat too much and exercise too little. It's not a conspiracy.

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 09:55 AM
Maize is widely consumed in parts of Latin America. It's also consumed here in the form of popcorn which is actually quite a healthy snack.

The problem is that people eat too much and exercise too little. It's not a conspiracy.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/


It would be overkill to say that the carrot you eat today has very little nutrition in it—especially compared to some of the other less healthy foods you likely also eat—but it is true that fruits and vegetables grown decades ago were much richer in vitamins and minerals than the varieties most of us get today. The main culprit in this disturbing nutritional trend is soil depletion: Modern intensive agricultural methods have stripped increasing amounts of nutrients from the soil in which the food we eat grows. Sadly, each successive generation of fast-growing, pest-resistant carrot is truly less good for you than the one before.


A landmark study on the topic by Donald Davis and his team of researchers from the University of Texas (UT) at Austin’s Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry was published in December 2004 in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition. They studied U.S. Department of Agriculture nutritional data from both 1950 and 1999 for 43 different vegetables and fruits, finding “reliable declines” in the amount of protein, calcium, phosphorus, iron, riboflavin (vitamin B2) and vitamin C over the past half century. Davis and his colleagues chalk up this declining nutritional content to the preponderance of agricultural practices designed to improve traits (size, growth rate, pest resistance) other than nutrition.

shaarona
01-26-2014, 09:57 AM
Lots of people still grow heirloom tomatoes.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 10:00 AM
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/

1.
It would be overkill to say that the carrot you eat today has very little nutrition in it—especially compared to some of the other less healthy foods you likely also eat I would substitute ridiculous for overkill. They seem to agree:

“Vegetables are extraordinarily rich in nutrients and beneficial phytochemicals,” he reported. “They are still there, and vegetables and fruits are our best sources for these.”

Exactly.

2. The reason for these "agricultural practices" is the enormous human population that needs to be fed.

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 10:02 AM
GMOs are harder on soil

http://www.responsibletechnology.org/10-Reasons-to-Avoid-GMOs

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 10:03 AM
1. I would substitute ridiculous for overkill. They seem to agree:

“Vegetables are extraordinarily rich in nutrients and beneficial phytochemicals,” he reported. “They are still there, and vegetables and fruits are our best sources for these.”

Exactly.

2. The reason for these "agricultural practices" is the enormous human population that needs to be fed.


And you ignore ravi's point that shows that there are less nutrients in these vegetables now and focus on their acknowledgment of the hyperbole. Yes, carrots still have nutrition, but they have less nutrition than before.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 10:09 AM
And you ignore ravi's point that shows that there are less nutrients in these vegetables now and focus on their acknowledgment of the hyperbole. Yes, carrots still have nutrition, but they have less nutrition than before.

That wasn't Ravi's point. Her point was that my vegetables were devoid of nutrients. That is again ridiculous. My vegetables, as per your own source, are packed with nutrients.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 10:12 AM
And you ignore ravi's point that shows that there are less nutrients in these vegetables now and focus on their acknowledgment of the hyperbole. Yes, carrots still have nutrition, but they have less nutrition than before.

Her point was that the problem was the genetic construction of the vegetables themselves, not, as you aptly proved, due to soil depletion. Mr. D's point is that veggies still have plenty of nutrients for human nutrition.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 10:13 AM
I'll add that nutrient loss is often a matter of a long gap between harvesting and sale.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 10:13 AM
Her point was that the problem was the genetic construction of the vegetables themselves, not, as you aptly proved, due to soil depletion. Mr. D's point is that veggies still have plenty of nutrients for human nutrition.

Exactly.

jillian
01-26-2014, 10:15 AM
Her point was that the problem was the genetic construction of the vegetables themselves, not, as you aptly proved, due to soil depletion. Mr. D's point is that veggies still have plenty of nutrients for human nutrition.

yes. there are still nutrients in vegetables…. but not like before because of all the GMO's.

That was the issue as I see it .… and whether one would prefer to have more nutritious foods than less.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 10:49 AM
yes. there are still nutrients in vegetables…. but not like before because of all the GMO's.

The only evidence I've seen is loss of nutrients due to soil depletion and too fast growing techniques. If you have some scientifically valid evidence for GMO's, please provide it.

jillian
01-26-2014, 11:11 AM
The only evidence I've seen is loss of nutrients due to soil depletion and too fast growing techniques. If you have some scientifically valid evidence for GMO's, please provide it.


The hazards that may be introduced into foods through genetic engineering are three, (1) allergens, (2) toxins, and (3) reduced nutritional quality. This paper begins with a discussion of how genetic engineering may introduce these risks into foods, and then outlines the procedures for assessing whether or not a given genetically engineered food contains such hazards. In this discussion, foods, food ingredients, and food additives produced through recombinant DNA technologies will be called "genetically engineered," "recombinant," or "transgenic" foods, and the term food will be used to refer collectively to foods, food ingredients, food additives, and nutritional supplements.

h
ttp://www.psrast.org/jfassess.htm

http://www.psrast.org

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/04/30/monsanto-gmo-corn.aspx

http://enhs.umn.edu/current/5103/gm/harmful.html

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 11:30 AM
No, I'm saying it's impractical for a modern society to be supported by everyone living on their own 40 acres and working it with a mule.

But that is not the discussion. Sustainable farming is. Stop shifting the goal posts.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 11:35 AM
But that is not the discussion. Sustainable farming is. Stop shifting the goal posts.

We have sustainable farming. Are people dying in the streets of starvation? Your suggestion that everyone grow their own food is unreasonable.
Although it might require people to decide to not live where you can't grow food.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 11:37 AM
As far as chickens go, a factory farmed chicken who spent its life unmovable is going to have tasty legs like a free range chicken? :cool2:

Taste is not the same as nutrition. This is more a matter of humane treatment than nutrition.

Animals do taste different based on what they've been eating. When feral hog hunting, the tastiest are the Sows and piglets. Boars eat all kinds of garbage and it affects their taste. Nevertheless, despite the difference in taste, either provide the nutrition necessary to survive.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 11:47 AM
Are plant proteins as useful as animal proteins? I've been eating a lot of beans lately.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 12:03 PM
Are plant proteins as useful as animal proteins? I've been eating a lot of beans lately.

They can be. Lots of poor Cajuns live on beans and rice. Confederate soldiers lived on boiled "goober peas". They even sang about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BcK3vR6bEc

undine
01-26-2014, 12:28 PM
@undine (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=980)

Check this out

http://www.occupy.com/article/revealed-deadly-rogue-gene-discovered-monsantos-gmo-crops#sthash.0XOjAXzU.dpuf

Damn. I'm sure more of this kind of stuff will be "discovered" as time goes by and soon it will be too late.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 12:32 PM
We have sustainable farming. Are people dying in the streets of starvation? Your suggestion that everyone grow their own food is unreasonable.

Sustainable farming is a term of art. But you knew that.

undine
01-26-2014, 12:36 PM
LOL. That's sure to throw all the "anti-science “progressive” " types into a tizzy!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentine/2013/01/30/can-your-rose-bush-catch-your-cold-threat-of-killer-viral-plant-gene-is-the-latest-anti-gmo-activist-rant/

:rolleyes: No agenda there.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 12:38 PM
They can be. Lots of poor Cajuns live on beans and rice. Confederate soldiers lived on boiled "goober peas". They even sang about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BcK3vR6bEc

Poor man's meat the say...

Curious about this though. May have to research.

jillian
01-26-2014, 12:40 PM
Sustainable farming is a term of art. But you knew that.

and it has a particular meaning that addresses protecting the soil as i understand it.

undine
01-26-2014, 12:40 PM
That wasn't Ravi's point. Her point was that my vegetables were devoid of nutrients. That is again ridiculous. My vegetables, as per your own source, are packed with nutrients.No one said that. Are you in the right thread?

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 12:46 PM
Damn. I'm sure more of this kind of stuff will be "discovered" as time goes by and soon it will be too late.

Pretty much. The NIH is already leaning towards supporting the negative effects of growth hormones in dairy cattle on our population.

undine
01-26-2014, 12:48 PM
yes. there are still nutrients in vegetables…. but not like before because of all the GMO's.

That was the issue as I see it .… and whether one would prefer to have more nutritious foods than less.

It's not really because of the GMO's. It is the result of people preferring sweeter fruits and vegetables. Overbreeding.

And the OP demonstrates the stupidity of this. Instead of returning to native plants that have the nutrients, we must genetically modify things to be good for us.

My problem with GMO's is that they one jump crop fields and two open us up to another version of the potato famine. Natural crop diversity is a good thing. Ask Darwin. :)

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 12:49 PM
Sustainable farming is a term of art. But you knew that.

I know very little about art. I was, however, a big fan of Art Carney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNauilZRzHk

undine
01-26-2014, 12:49 PM
The only evidence I've seen is loss of nutrients due to soil depletion and too fast growing techniques. If you have some scientifically valid evidence for GMO's, please provide it.I linked you to a book. It is all backed up (in the book) by science. You appear to be afraid to read it.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 12:52 PM
and it has a particular meaning that addresses protecting the soil as i understand it.

Yes.

undine
01-26-2014, 12:52 PM
Are plant proteins as useful as animal proteins? I've been eating a lot of beans lately.

Yes, but you need to combine them with other foods to get the full benefit. Google complimentary plant proteins.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 12:54 PM
Yes, but you need to combine them with other foods to get the full benefit. Google complimentary plant proteins.

Wiki gives me the gist. Thanks.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 12:56 PM
That and many of the GMOs have not had long term studies- I should say completed studies. They are ongoing with the people who are eating them.


It's not really because of the GMO's. It is the result of people preferring sweeter fruits and vegetables. Overbreeding.

And the OP demonstrates the stupidity of this. Instead of returning to native plants that have the nutrients, we must genetically modify things to be good for us.

My problem with GMO's is that they one jump crop fields and two open us up to another version of the potato famine. Natural crop diversity is a good thing. Ask Darwin. :)

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 12:57 PM
You appear to be afraid to read it.

LOL. Sorry, sweetie, but while the henpecking harridan act may work against your husband (now ex-husband?), it doesn't work against me.

If you don't want to post facts supporting your argument that GMO's are responsible for the loss of nutrients in grocery store produce, no one can make you.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 01:01 PM
Chloe

Do you do this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining

undine
01-26-2014, 01:03 PM
LOL. Sorry, sweetie, but while the henpecking harridan act may work against your husband (now ex-husband?), it doesn't work against me.

If you don't want to post facts supporting your argument that GMO's are responsible for the loss of nutrients in grocery store produce, no one can make you.
I didn't say GMO's are responsible for the loss of nutrients. In fact, I said very clearly that they are not.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 01:07 PM
What is this? A warning? What does the red card mean?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/28/24vk.png

Chloe
01-26-2014, 01:10 PM
@Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565)

Do you do this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining

Im not like super anal about it but yes I try to as much as I can. It still has to taste good for me but I can't say that I sit down and really focus on combinations as much as I should, but I'm aware of it and I try.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 01:13 PM
@Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565)

Do you do this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining

I actually made a large dish of mixed brown rice and black beans last week. Not for any other purpose than forging for food instead of going to the grocery.

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 01:14 PM
LOL. Sorry, sweetie, but while the henpecking harridan act may work against your husband (now ex-husband?), it doesn't work against me.

If you don't want to post facts supporting your argument that GMO's are responsible for the loss of nutrients in grocery store produce, no one can make you.

I think she said she was married still and has grown kids in another post.

Undine and I are not "fans" of each other but I don't think its our call to imply what she's like with her husband. For all I know, it could be me that gets the brunt of her wrath and she could be a kitten for him.

Actually, now that I think about it, I don't want to imagine what goes on at home. :huh:

Mister D
01-26-2014, 01:16 PM
Im not like super anal about it but yes I try to as much as I can. It still has to taste good for me but I can't say that I sit down and really focus on combinations as much as I should, but I'm aware of it and I try.

Seems easy enough to do. The article says grains and legumes are a good match so the multi-grain pasta with asparagus I just had was an example. I'm trying to gain a little more muscle weight but the protein intake they recommended is insane. I can't do it without making the plant proteins count.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 01:16 PM
I didn't say GMO's are responsible for the loss of nutrients. In fact, I said very clearly that they are not.

Yet that is precisely the question you responded to with your harpyish virago post. I've already stated that the lost of nutrients appears to be due to soil depletion and premature-picking in a rush to get it to market.


The only evidence I've seen is loss of nutrients due to soil depletion and too fast growing techniques. If you have some scientifically valid evidence for GMO's, please provide it.
I linked you to a book. It is all backed up (in the book) by science. You appear to be afraid to read it.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 01:17 PM
I actually made a large dish of mixed brown rice and black beans last week. Not for any other purpose than forging for food instead of going to the grocery.

That's a perfect example.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 01:22 PM
I think she said she was married still and has grown kids in another post.

Undine and I are not "fans" of each other but I don't think its our call to imply what she's like with her husband. For all I know, it could be me that gets the brunt of her wrath and she could be a kitten for him.

Possibly, but a person's personality isn't like a light switch. Well, a normal person's isn't. We all have moods, but our personality is fairly stable over the short term. People can change if they want, but it takes time. A person who reacts with anger and cheap shots in one situation is likely to do it in another since that is a personal trait. You've seen people who've kept their cool in stressful situations and those who lose the bubble at the first sign of frustration. Is there any reason to think they'd react differently with family?

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 01:24 PM
That's a perfect example.

I just stored them separate, and mixed them only when I was ready to eat a portion. It is easy, it is cheap, and it is good.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 01:26 PM
I just stored them separate, and mixed them only when I was ready to eat a portion. It is easy, it is cheap, and it is good.

I'm not sure but I think they are supposed to be separate, right? That's a popular combo in LA.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 01:31 PM
I'm not sure but I think they are supposed to be separate, right? That's a popular combo in LA.

Both ways. You really can't put typical in the same sentence with Louisiana cooking!

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 01:36 PM
Both ways. You really can't put typical in the same sentence with Louisiana cooking!

Red beans and rice will be what God serves you when you get to Heaven.

undine
01-26-2014, 02:24 PM
What is this? A warning? What does the red card mean?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/28/24vk.png

We can neg rep?

undine
01-26-2014, 02:26 PM
I think she said she was married still and has grown kids in another post.

Undine and I are not "fans" of each other but I don't think its our call to imply what she's like with her husband. For all I know, it could be me that gets the brunt of her wrath and she could be a kitten for him.

Actually, now that I think about it, I don't want to imagine what goes on at home. :huh:
Is that what is called damning with faint praise?

undine
01-26-2014, 02:28 PM
Yet that is precisely the question you responded to with your harpyish virago post. I've already stated that the lost of nutrients appears to be due to soil depletion and premature-picking in a rush to get it to market.
I was responding to your first sentence and didn't really read the second one.

I fail to understand how you avoiding reading a book that scientifically lays out how we've perverted the food chain is harpyish.

undine
01-26-2014, 02:31 PM
Possibly, but a person's personality isn't like a light switch. Well, a normal person's isn't. We all have moods, but our personality is fairly stable over the short term. People can change if they want, but it takes time. A person who reacts with anger and cheap shots in one situation is likely to do it in another since that is a personal trait. You've seen people who've kept their cool in stressful situations and those who lose the bubble at the first sign of frustration. Is there any reason to think they'd react differently with family?

Huh? What cheap shot are you referring to? Your above post would actually work better directed at yourself as you fly off the handle on a regular basis.

You are destroying my believe that you are a rational conservative.

Codename Section
01-26-2014, 02:31 PM
Is that what is called damning with faint praise?

Nope. I have no doubts you have a nice family. :) It was just begrudging praise or something undine

undine
01-26-2014, 02:32 PM
I'm not sure but I think they are supposed to be separate, right? That's a popular combo in LA.
If you're talking about beans and rice it is better to store them separate otherwise the rice kind of takes over and it doesn't taste as good.

undine
01-26-2014, 02:34 PM
Nope. I have no doubts you have a nice family. :) It was just begrudging praise or something @undine (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=980)
LOL! Anyway, you seem to think I don't like you but I actually have no problem with you normally. Bitcoin aside.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 03:26 PM
Red beans and rice will be what God serves you when you get to Heaven.


Love red beans and rice. Made some a couple of weeks ago.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 03:32 PM
I can't pickled pork around here for red beans and rice. I'll have to smuggle some when I to see my brother.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 03:35 PM
I can't pickled pork around here for red beans and rice. I'll have to smuggle some when I to see my brother.

What is that about?

Mister D
01-26-2014, 03:38 PM
What is that about?

I don't see it anywhere. I didn't even know it existed until I saw a recipe for red beans and rice. Weird because I live in a state where I have access to just about anything...except pickled pork.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 04:26 PM
I don't see it anywhere. I didn't even know it existed until I saw a recipe for red beans and rice. Weird because I live in a state where I have access to just about anything...except pickled pork.

You can find it here in DC because of the Louisiana government types and lawyers that are around. I haven't had good red beans and rice here, other than when I make it myself.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 04:33 PM
You can find it here in DC because of the Louisiana government types and lawyers that are around. I haven't had good red beans and rice here, other than when I make it myself.

I'll pick some up when I visit LA. I'll try my hand at this dish.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 04:34 PM
I'll pick some up when I visit LA. I'll try my hand at this dish.

Do you mean you will order a red beans and rice dish next time you are in Louisiana? No need to pick up the ingredients. You can get them anywhere.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 04:43 PM
Do you mean you will order a red beans and rice dish next time you are in Louisiana? No need to pick up the ingredients. You can get them anywhere.

I meant I'll buy some pickled pork and bring it back. Looking forward to the trip, actually. His mother in law is a great cook. I stuffed myself full of seafood gumbo last time. She made a huge batch for me.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 04:52 PM
I meant I'll buy some pickled pork and bring it back. Looking forward to the trip, actually. His mother in law is a great cook. I stuffed myself full of seafood gumbo last time. She made a huge batch for me.


When are you going? I will be in the Big Easy the third week of April. Sooner if my mom gets worse before that.

Common
01-26-2014, 05:02 PM
My father never ate anything green, except a little salad now and then, he smoked for 70 yrs and the last words he said to me at 89 were bring me another carton of butts.

Health is genetic, yes you can destroy your health and yes you can prolong it by doing all healthy things but in the end your genetics will determine your longevity. People that do it all wrong live into their 80s and people that do it all right die young and younger.

A very close friend who had heart disease rampant in his family grandfather and father both died within a year of 50 two brothers the same. He was determined that wouldnt happen to him being the youngest, worked out had zero fat, never smoked, ate all good stuff, did everything he could to keep his heart healthy. He went to bed healthy as a horse one night at 55 and never work up. Genetics is key to health. I could be dead wrong but thats what I believe.

Thats why doctors ask you if you have any cancer or heart disease or diabetes in your family. If you do you have more of a propensity to get those ailments.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 05:10 PM
When are you going? I will be in the Big Easy the third week of April. Sooner if my mom gets worse before that.

not sure. I will let you know. I should decide soon and get the tickets. Is April still crawfish season?

Mom not well? Sucks. Sorry.

undine
01-26-2014, 05:11 PM
You can make your own pickled pork, very easy.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/pickled-pork-recipe.html

undine
01-26-2014, 05:12 PM
My father never ate anything green, except a little salad now and then, he smoked for 70 yrs and the last words he said to me at 89 were bring me another carton of butts.

Health is genetic, yes you can destroy your health and yes you can prolong it by doing all healthy things but in the end your genetics will determine your longevity. People that do it all wrong live into their 80s and people that do it all right die young and younger.

A very close friend who had heart disease rampant in his family grandfather and father both died within a year of 50 two brothers the same. He was determined that wouldnt happen to him being the youngest, worked out had zero fat, never smoked, ate all good stuff, did everything he could to keep his heart healthy. He went to bed healthy as a horse one night at 55 and never work up. Genetics is key to health. I could be dead wrong but thats what I believe.

Thats why doctors ask you if you have any cancer or heart disease or diabetes in your family. If you do you have more of a propensity to get those ailments.
I think so as well. However, your genetics would also dictate which foods are best for you.

For example, native Americans are more apt to get diabetes if they eat western food instead of their traditional ancestral food.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 05:14 PM
I think so as well. However, your genetics would also dictate which foods are best for you.

For example, native Americans are more apt to get diabetes if they eat western food instead of their traditional ancestral food.

Pacific Islanders too.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 05:16 PM
My father had heart disease. First heart attack at 36. Died at 63. I have nothing at all wrong with my heart.

Mister D
01-26-2014, 05:17 PM
My father had heart disease. First heart attack at 36. Died at 63. I have nothing at all wrong with my heart.

36!?

Common
01-26-2014, 07:02 PM
My father had heart disease. First heart attack at 36. Died at 63. I have nothing at all wrong with my heart.

Im very glad you dont peter, nothing is absolute. Genetics doesnt follow every single person

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 07:04 PM
Im very glad you dont peter, nothing is absolute. Genetics doesnt follow every single person


I think it does. But genetics can be triggered on or off - at least sometimes.

Max Rockatansky
01-26-2014, 07:05 PM
My oldest paternal uncle dropped dead of a heart attack at 42. Both my younger uncle and dad had quadruples. My cholesterol is way over the limit and I've been taking medication for it the past 10+ years. As the Doctor said, it's genetic.

Peter1469
01-26-2014, 07:07 PM
My cholesterol hovers at 250. But my HDL is 101 and my triglycerides are under 80.

Common
01-26-2014, 09:29 PM
I think it does. But genetics can be triggered on or off - at least sometimes.

Maybe, I dont know enough about the science to know anything really.