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patrickt
02-09-2014, 07:13 AM
Because the truth doesn't work.

"“Opportunity created by affordable, quality health insurance allows families in America to make a decision about how they will work, or if they will work,” Jay Carney said. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi applauded the law for freeing people from “job-lock.”
http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/obama-democrats-troubling-view-on-work/

Jay Carney spoke the truth and Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi applauded him. People shouldn't have to work. They should be free to decide whether or not they will work. Well, of course, it's a given they'll work the system but not at a job.

We wouldn't want the horror of "job-lock". Responsibility is a terrible word for liberals.

Peter1469
02-09-2014, 07:29 AM
If people decide to not work they likely won't even have the money to pay the subsidized rates. This can make changing jobs easier or less stressful.

Not to defend Obamacare, it still is way too expensive for what you get.

patrickt
02-09-2014, 07:54 AM
Aren't they eligible for free Medicaid if they're freed from "job-lock" and don't work?

Peter1469
02-09-2014, 07:55 AM
Aren't they eligible for free Medicaid if they're freed from "job-lock" and don't work?

I don't know. I hope not.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 08:04 AM
Because the truth doesn't work.

"“Opportunity created by affordable, quality health insurance allows families in America to make a decision about how they will work, or if they will work,” Jay Carney said. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi applauded the law for freeing people from “job-lock.”
http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/obama-democrats-troubling-view-on-work/

Jay Carney spoke the truth and Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi applauded him. People shouldn't have to work. They should be free to decide whether or not they will work. Well, of course, it's a given they'll work the system but not at a job.

We wouldn't want the horror of "job-lock". Responsibility is a terrible word for liberals.

Dude, are you deliberately twisting the words (lying) or is this how you truly view the statement by Jay Carney?

There is a world of difference between being able to choose among a variety of jobs when medical insurance is no longer a factor and choosing to not work at all.

Regarding not working, I know people in their 60s who have to work because Cobra is prohibitively expensive and the employee or their one spouse need medical insurance for a "preexisting condition" such as a heart problem.

The NYPost article feeds the meme about welfare queens driving Cadillacs and carrying Gucci purses. That's not true as anyone who is intelligent enough to read welfare rules can quickly figure out. A retiree with sufficient savings and no need to work due to medical insurance needs, can retire on their savings. A young person without such savings would be covered by medical insurance, but would be living on the street or in their parent's basement because it takes money to buy food and pay the electric bill.

Peter1469
02-09-2014, 08:23 AM
The problem is that other politicians like Pelosi have come out and said that because of Obamacare people can choose not to work if they want- to pursue their dreams.

Mainecoons
02-09-2014, 08:25 AM
Do you understand "IF they will work?"

Carney's statement including choosing between jobs OR choosing not to work. Now if one chooses not to work, obviously under this law one is "entitled" to free or very cheap, highly subsidized health care insurance.

Patrick understands what Carney said, clearly you do not. Try turning off your liberal language filter. :grin:

patrickt
02-09-2014, 08:29 AM
Gee, Max, are you really that stupid. Does the phrase "....or if they will work" have no meaning for you? Or, are you just lying.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 08:38 AM
The problem is that other politicians like Pelosi have come out and said that because of Obamacare people can choose not to work if they want- to pursue their dreams.

Pelosi is, without a doubt, a Limousine Liberal Loony. She's also a politician readily willing to spout the rhetoric her followers want to hear.

There's a practical side to any form of rhetoric, or impractical as the case may be. People can't "pursue their dreams" if they are broke and living in their parent's basement. Drawing pictures on the walls with their own feces isn't much of a career field.

OTOH, such a program does allow people who've worked 30-40 years retiree without having to worry about medical costs or insurance. I'm not saying I agree with Obamacare since there are many problems with it, specifically cost, but I also understand that there is some logic in what Carney is saying here.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 08:39 AM
Gee, Max, are you really that stupid. Does the phrase "....or if they will work" have no meaning for you? Or, are you just lying.

You decide, Pat. Are you working now in Mexico? Why do you hate America so much you can't even live here?

Do you vote by absentee ballot? If so, then doesn't that make you a hypocrite for supporting Voter ID since absentee ballots are the #1 form of voter fraud?

Mainecoons
02-09-2014, 08:41 AM
What is the matter, Max, got caught trying to spin away from a pretty obvious phrase and now you have to resort to personal attack?

Just like a good lib, eh?

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 09:05 AM
What is the matter, Max, got caught trying to spin away from a pretty obvious phrase and now you have to resort to personal attack?

Just like a good lib, eh?

Nice personal attack, but calling Pat an ex-Pat is a fact....unless he's moved back to the US when nobody was looking. Do you know if he is working there or simply retired and living off the Mexican economy?

As for the OP comment, it's misleading. Yes, Carney made the statement, but who here believes that it means all or any of our young 20somethings on this forum can stop working forever and become feces painters on the taxpayer's dime?

Who here believes my statement is closer to the truth, that those with the financial means of their own to do so can retire or quit work because they don't have to worry about medical insurance?

That point aside, I still disagree with the ACA due to cost.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 09:15 AM
Regarding "job-lock", that phrase came up before when 401(k)s were first introduced. As most military members know, you can spend 19 years and 364 days in the military, but if you are downsized before that 20 year retirement kicks in, you leave with nothing. Most civilian workers used to have defined pension plans with employers, but if they left before their pension time was complete, they left with nothing. Making retirements portable helped prevent "job-lock".

It was a win-win; allowing employers to dodge costly pension plans and allowing employees to avoid "job-lock". There were mistakes and flaws which were later corrected. #1 being a requirement that one's 401(k) be invested solely in the employer's company. This didn't work so well for Enron and Worldcom workers.

patrickt
02-09-2014, 09:20 AM
You decide, Pat. Are you working now in Mexico? Why do you hate America so much you can't even live here?

Do you vote by absentee ballot? If so, then doesn't that make you a hypocrite for supporting Voter ID since absentee ballots are the #1 form of voter fraud?

You fail all the way around. I enjoy living in Mexico and while I never enjoyed the freedom of deciding if I wanted to work I did work and now I don't. Of course, I vote by absentee ballot and that's not at all hypocritical. I have to vote by absentee ballot and it's not, for me, a means to commit voter fraud as it is for liberals like you. I even use my own name on my absentee ballot. I also vote only once. Strange, huh? I do not vote for local ballot initiatives because although I can, legally, I don't think it would be right. Does that confuse you, Max?

I don't understand "living off the Mexican economy". Unlike liberals I pay my own way. I also adopted a Zapotec family of a widow and five sons and am sending the kids to school and feeding the family. I know, Max, for liberals that's confusing, too, but some people do that. And, I pay taxes in Mexico and unlike a lot of liberals I also pay income tax in the U.S.

I am worried about health insurance. I'm worried the tyrants will require me to buy health insurance in the U.S.

Now, nitwit, explain how I twisted, "....if they will work" and try and stay on topic this time.

Peter1469
02-09-2014, 09:25 AM
I may decide to retire overseas. It doesn't have anything to do with "hating America."

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 09:34 AM
I may decide to retire overseas. It doesn't have anything to do with "hating America."

Where? I've been around the world a few times and know a handful of people who've retired outside the US for, usually, two reasons: stretch their retirement dollar and spousal family relations. I have little to no interest in retiring outside the US.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 09:38 AM
You fail all the way around. I enjoy living in Mexico and while I never enjoyed the freedom of deciding if I wanted to work I did work and now I don't. Of course, I vote by absentee ballot and that's not at all hypocritical. I have to vote by absentee ballot and it's not, for me, a means to commit voter fraud as it is for liberals like you. I even use my own name on my absentee ballot....
Nevertheless, absentee ballots are the #1 form of voter fraud. All the right-wing nut jobs pushing voter ID must, if they are truly sincere about eliminating voter fraud, stop absentee ballots. This not only adversely effects ex-pats but our military. One way to mitigate it for our military is for them to go through their chain-of-command. I suppose a way for ex-pats to be able to vote would be for them to visit the US embassy or consulate.

I'm not a liberal, but what's one more outrageous lie coming from you? Just add it to the stack.

midcan5
02-09-2014, 09:40 AM
I have to admit I have never met these people who do not work and live off the government? Can someone name some they know and how well they are doing? I've known people on welfare, food stamps, and SSI and most worked except for a few abandoned women with young children. They too would have worked had that been possible. And lots of people are lazy, but they cross over into all classes of people. Who are these people? Could it be they don't really exist?

Oh, by the way is the thread starter a graduate of Irritus U? The Op reads like the work of an Irritus educated person. http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/16224-Education-For-A-Republican

Peter1469
02-09-2014, 09:41 AM
Where? I've been around the world a few times and know a handful of people who've retired outside the US for, usually, two reasons: stretch their retirement dollar and spousal family relations. I have little to no interest in retiring outside the US.

It depends on cost. Croatia would be nice if their real estate prices don't keep going up.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 09:49 AM
It depends on cost. Croatia would be nice if their real estate prices don't keep going up.

Lots of nice places, but spending my retirement being a "Stranger in a Strange Land" isn't my idea of fun. Land's cheap in the Philippines as well as the cost. Living in the mountains is relatively cool temperature wise. Costa Rica is becoming so popular the costs are shooting up. Canada has lots of land; bigger than the US but less people than California. I'm not sure about the costs/taxes. Gun laws are funky in other countries and most have little in the way of proper medical care should a family member be in need of something more serious than a cold or broken arm.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 09:56 AM
I have to admit I have never met these people who do not work and live off the government? Can someone name some they know and how well they are doing? I've known people on welfare, food stamps, and SSI and most worked except for a few abandoned women with young children.

I've known of people on temporary assistance, but their benefits eventually ran out. The only person I know who is on permanent disability is in his 40s and is a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. He has the mentality of a 14 year old and, even on his meds, sporadically laughs out loud when one of his "friends" says something funny. He has the attention span of a cat. Having him do some work around my place took more time than if I did it myself. He receives about $700/month from the state and his meds are covered. Not exactly luxurious living. He's been busted a few times for panhandling to feed his liking for gambling (machines and scratch cards), but once the police realize he is nuts, they cut him loose after a night in jail.

Peter1469
02-09-2014, 09:58 AM
Lots of nice places, but spending my retirement being a "Stranger in a Strange Land" isn't my idea of fun. Land's cheap in the Philippines as well as the cost. Living in the mountains is relatively cool temperature wise. Costa Rica is becoming so popular the costs are shooting up. Canada has lots of land; bigger than the US but less people than California. I'm not sure about the costs/taxes. Gun laws are funky in other countries and most have little in the way of proper medical care should a family member be in need of something more serious than a cold or broken arm.

Taxes are high in Canada.

I will be living alone, so I won't be concerned with family members getting hurt and being in need of medical care.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 10:07 AM
I will be living alone, so I won't be concerned with family members getting hurt and being in need of medical care.

Do you speak Croat? Wouldn't being a hermit in Wyoming or Idaho be more convenient than Croatia? According to the RWNJs on the forum, you could live like a king on welfare and Obamacare. :p

Peter1469
02-09-2014, 10:15 AM
Do you speak Croat? Wouldn't being a hermit in Wyoming or Idaho be more convenient than Croatia? According to the RWNJs on the forum, you could live like a king on welfare and Obamacare. :p

The younger people speak English and I pick up languages fast in the culture (not a class room).

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 10:35 AM
The younger people speak English and I pick up languages fast in the culture (not a class room).

Still, I'd recommend living there for a month or three before moving there lock, stock and barrel. That goes for anyplace overseas.

Peter1469
02-09-2014, 10:38 AM
Still, I'd recommend living there for a month or three before moving there lock, stock and barrel. That goes for anyplace overseas.

I agree with that. I don't think I would live anywhere full time. Unless tax laws have changed, if you can split your time with 3 places and get the number of days correct you should be able to avoid taxes.

I will keep my condo here in NOVA. Build a place in Croatia. And then something else near a major airport in Europe, even if small- named "staging area."

patrickt
02-09-2014, 11:05 AM
I have to admit I have never met these people who do not work and live off the government? Can someone name some they know and how well they are doing? I've known people on welfare, food stamps, and SSI and most worked except for a few abandoned women with young children. They too would have worked had that been possible. And lots of people are lazy, but they cross over into all classes of people. Who are these people? Could it be they don't really exist?

Oh, by the way is the thread starter a graduate of Irritus U? The Op reads like the work of an Irritus educated person. http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/16224-Education-For-A-Republican

You need to get out more, Midcan, or quit lying. Your choice, of course. The last two welfare professionals I dealt with were two young girls with babies. I would encourage them most days to get back in school and they'd giggle and tell me they were just going to stay on welfare like their mom did.

If you're on SSI you are severely restricted on how much and what kind of work you can do. I've known people on SSI who really couldn't work. One had a permanent emotional disability. When I asked what it was he giggled and said he didn't like working. Deadbeats in Hawaii, friends of mine, gave me the names of two psychologists who would sign anyone up for "crazy pay". All you have to do was give them your first two monthly checks.

I've known people temporarily on assistance who managed to get off welfare despite the best efforts of the case workers and I've known people on SSI who actually couldn't work. I was glad to help them. To pretend they're the norm is dishonest.

Peter1469
02-09-2014, 11:13 AM
That illustrates the problem. Most of these programs could work well. Toss in the human element, and the fraud just puts a sour taste in your mouth.

patrickt
02-09-2014, 12:11 PM
That illustrates the problem. Most of these programs could work well. Toss in the human element, and the fraud just puts a sour taste in your mouth.

I am proud to help those who legitimately need help. Those who have decided, as the liberals cheer, that they will not work should face the consequences of deciding they will not work. I asked my friend what he'd do if the government cancelled his monthly check, his Medicaid card, his food stamps, his subsidized housing, and all the other perks and after a moment he said, "I'd get a job but I wouldn't like it."

Of course, when you are actually paying to help deadbeats and frauds it's more irritating than if you don't.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 12:21 PM
You need to get out more, Midcan, or quit lying. Your choice, of course. The last two welfare professionals I dealt with were two young girls with babies.

What year and what part of Mexico?

patrickt
02-09-2014, 12:27 PM
What year and what part of Mexico?

I have no idea where your babbling went. But in the interest of reasonable discussion, we're done.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 12:53 PM
I have no idea where your babbling went. But in the interest of reasonable discussion, we're done.

Whew! You dodged that bullet.

Mainecoons
02-09-2014, 04:44 PM
No, he just didn't play along with your game of changing the topic and getting personal when you got caught not understanding what the word "if" means.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2014, 04:54 PM
No, he just didn't play along with your game of changing the topic and getting personal when you got caught not understanding what the word "if" means.

I had no idea you two were so simpatico.

If you want to believe I don't understand what the word "if" or, like your friend, that I'm a "liberal", I not only can't stop you but won't even try. I've often found it's advantageous to be underestimated.

Mainecoons
02-09-2014, 04:56 PM
Still dancing, eh?

Have you looked up "if" yet?

midcan5
02-10-2014, 02:29 PM
Funny but the replies to my comment confirm my comment and yet the assumptions live on. They must provide solace of some sort?

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/22468-Why-Lie?p=518211&viewfull=1#post518211