Tenn. lawmakers issue incentive threat in VW union move

[nic34]

The intrusion of government? That's right Tennessee, even with the support of the company and management for a union agreement, let's meddle in their affairs anyway....just because we hate unions. Ship their jobs to Mexico just to spite the union.

Tenn. lawmakers issue incentive threat in VW union move

Not only are Republican legislators accusing Volkswagen of backing the UAW, some of their leaders on Monday threatened to withhold tax incentives for future expansion of the 3-year-old assembly plant in Chattanooga if workers vote this week to join the UAW.

About 1,500 workers will vote from Wednesday through Friday in an election that the National Labor Relations Board will conduct.

The company plans to expand in Chattanooga or at a Mexican plant to produce a midsize SUV. Overall, Volkswagen intends to invest about $7 billion in North America over the next five years to achieve a goal of selling more than 1 million Volkswagen and Audi vehicles in the U.S. by 2018.

----

Volkswagen has tried to remain neutral, but the recent actions by Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam, U.S. Sen. Bob Corker and prominent anti-tax lobbyist Grover Norquist led the automaker's management to issue a statement over the weekend that "outside political groups won't divert us from the work at hand: innovating, creating jobs, growing and producing great automobiles."

Democratic legislators, who are a minority in both chambers of the Tennessee General Assembly, defended Volkswagen's prerogative to manage the plant as it chooses.

"In my 20 years on the hill, I've never seen such a massive intrusion into the affairs of a private company," said Tennessee Rep. Craig Fitzhugh, D-Ripley.

If workers at the Volkswagen plant in Tennessee vote for UAW representation, the union and company will form a German-style works council. The council is a structure Volkswagen uses at most of its assembly plants around the world.
Volkswagen says that the UAW has agreed to delegate to the works council many of the functions and responsibilities ordinarily performed by unions.

"Volkswagen considers their works councils their strategic competitive advantage," said Arthur Wheaton, a professor at Cornell University's School of Industrial and Labor Relations. "U.S. labor law does not allow them to have a works council without a labor union."

Wheaton said Volkswagen would prefer to build the SUV in the U.S. because it has the space in Chattanooga and because it would keep transportation costs down.

"Our works councils are key to our success and productivity. It is a business model that helped to make Volkswagen the second-largest car company in the world," Frank Fischer, chairman and CEO of Volkswagen Chattanooga, said in a statement.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/02/11/tennessee-volkswagen-uaw-incentives-threat/5388341/

Vote results today.

[Mainecoons]

"In my 20 years on the hill, I've never seen such a massive intrusion into the affairs of a private company," said Tennessee Rep. Craig Fitzhugh, D-Ripley.

Try GOVERNMENT MOTORS idiots.

:grin:

[Mainecoons]

Maybe, just maybe, Tennessee has seen what the UAW did to Michigan and decided they don't want to go down that road.

In any case, government has no business intervening in the affairs of private companies like this OR GM.

And you and your Democrats are flaming hypocrites, Nic.

VW is stupid. They don't realize they're not dealing with one of those cooperative German unions. They're dealing with the union whose greed and corruption killed off most of the U.S. auto industry.

But hey, they're good Democrats so that was OK.

[Green Arrow]

Maybe, just maybe, Tennessee has seen what the UAW did to Michigan and decided they don't want to go down that road.

In any case, government has no business intervening in the affairs of private companies like this OR GM.

And you and your Democrats are flaming hypocrites, Nic.

VW is stupid. They don't realize they're not dealing with one of those cooperative German unions. They're dealing with the union whose greed and corruption killed off most of the U.S. auto industry.

But hey, they're good Democrats so that was OK.

You're on the wrong side of this fight, Maine. No offense, but you don't live here. Tennessee politics are screwy. Our governor is a flaming corporatist, as are his allies in the legislature. Hate the UAW all you want, but in this case, they are in the right.

[nathanbforrest45]

Maybe, just maybe, Tennessee has seen what the UAW did to Michigan and decided they don't want to go down that road.

In any case, government has no business intervening in the affairs of private companies like this OR GM.

And you and your Democrats are flaming hypocrites, Nic.

VW is stupid. They don't realize they're not dealing with one of those cooperative German unions. They're dealing with the union whose greed and corruption killed off most of the U.S. auto industry.

But hey, they're good Democrats so that was OK.

What is really strange about this is that VW stated they were moving operations to Chattanooga because the unions in Germany made it too costly to produce those cars there. I can't for the life of me understand why they would support this move here.

[Chris]

"The intrusion of government?"

Agree, government should not intrude. At all. For here it is intruding on intruding: "...some of their leaders on Monday threatened to withhold tax incentives for future expansion of the 3-year-old assembly plant in Chattanooga if workers vote this week to join the UAW."

[nathanbforrest45]

I think the State has the right to say if you screw this up for any additional business we are simply not going to give you taxpayer money anymore. They don't have the right to tell the workers they can't vote in the union but they certainly have the right to say we aren't going to support you if you do.

[Green Arrow]

I think the State has the right to say if you screw this up for any additional business we are simply not going to give you taxpayer money anymore. They don't have the right to tell the workers they can't vote in the union but they certainly have the right to say we aren't going to support you if you do.

Haslam and Friends won't stop there. These threats are fairly benign in comparison to what comes next if they don't comply.

[nathanbforrest45]

Haslam and Friends won't stop there. These threats are fairly benign in comparison to what comes next if they don't comply.

Oh come on Green, what do you think will happen, Haslem will call out the Tennessee National Guard? What can they do except not give them any more of your and my money?

[Green Arrow]

Oh come on Green, what do you think will happen, Haslem will call out the Tennessee National Guard? What can they do except not give them any more of your and my money?

Government interference in business has been happening since the 1800s. Maybe earlier. Lincoln was a corporate lawyer. In that time, it has perfected its art. State executives (governors) and legislators have just as much (if not more) ability to destroy businesses as President Obama and Congress.

[nic34]

What is really strange about this is that VW stated they were moving operations to Chattanooga because the unions in Germany made it too costly to produce those cars there. I can't for the life of me understand why they would support this move here.

Maybe because you have misinformation? I'd like to see your source for that.

Btw, did you read VW management supports the union agreement, because it works with their production model. See cite.

[Chris]

Government interference in business has been happening since the 1800s. Maybe earlier. Lincoln was a corporate lawyer. In that time, it has perfected its art. State executives (governors) and legislators have just as much (if not more) ability to destroy businesses as President Obama and Congress.

Mercantilism. Adam Smith criticized joint stock companies, what we now call corporations and corporatism.

[nic34]

How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/

[Chris]

Maybe because you have misinformation? I'd like to see your source for that.

Btw, did you read VW management supports the union agreement, because it works with their production model. See cite.


Right, it buys them government subsidies and incentives. See your cite. Oddly, though, for your complaints here about government meddling, you're not against that.

[nic34]

Wow, chris, I have never made it a secret that I'm all for government "meddling" when it benefits workers.

[nathanbforrest45]

Government interference in business has been happening since the 1800s. Maybe earlier. Lincoln was a corporate lawyer. In that time, it has perfected its art. State executives (governors) and legislators have just as much (if not more) ability to destroy businesses as President Obama and Congress.


I don't understand how you think TN is going to destroy business by not giving them taxpayer money? Should the state of Tennessee give anyone who wants to start a business in Tennessee taxpayer money?

[nathanbforrest45]

Maybe because you have misinformation? I'd like to see your source for that.

Btw, did you read VW management supports the union agreement, because it works with their production model. See cite.


I have an idea, rather than calling me a liar why don't you go fuck yourself.

[Green Arrow]

I don't understand how you think TN is going to destroy business by not giving them taxpayer money? Should the state of Tennessee give anyone who wants to start a business in Tennessee taxpayer money?

Who said anything about taxpayer money? That's only the first step. I'm looking beyond the threat to withhold tax incentives.

[Cigar]

I love it ... Republican State Governor not listening to THE JOB CREATOR.

[Cigar]

Try GOVERNMENT MOTORS idiots.

:grin:[/I]

Hay Idiot ... it's NOT called intrusion when you're invited ... look it up :rollseyes:

[Cigar]

I have an idea, rather than calling me a liar why don't you go fuck yourself.

http://fc00.deviantart.net/images/i/2003/40/4/4/Scratch_Cat.jpg

[Chris]

Wow, chris, I have never made it a secret that I'm all for government "meddling" when it benefits workers.

You mean you're not for government meddling.

[Cigar]

Maybe because you have misinformation? I'd like to see your source for that.

Btw, did you read VW management supports the union agreement, because it works with their production model. See cite.

WARNING: Auto-Denial Activated

http://www.dreamwaytrading.com/prodimages/1589-DEFAULT-l.jpg

[Chris]

WARNING: Auto-Denial Activated ...


Nic doesn't deny he's all for government intrusion into business.

[Cigar]

Wow, chris, I have never made it a secret that I'm all for government "meddling" when it benefits workers.

Every time I get on a Plane ... I thank God for Government Intrusion :laugh:

Lord knows I don't want the Good-Old-Days of Cowboy Air Industry back ... Ever :smiley:

[Green Arrow]

Every time I get on a Plane ... I thank God for Government Intrusion :laugh:

Lord knows I don't want the Good-Old-Days of Cowboy Air Industry back ... Ever :smiley:

I don't appreciate having my children and grandmother molested. I'd prefer the pre-TSA days, Mr. Republicrat.

[Cigar]

I don't appreciate having my children and grandmother molested. I'd prefer the pre-TSA days, Mr. Republicrat.

I fly out of O'Hare all the time ... never one molested ... and really piss :laugh:

O'Hare doesn't have to touch anyone ... they have wands and X-Ray

[Cigar]

The GOP Gets All Up in Volkswagen's Business

Republicans like to say that they want to get government off the back of business. Evidently that maxim fails to apply when a business isn’t anti-union enough.

Workers at a Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga, Tenn., are voting this week on whether or not to join the United Auto Workers. Far from attempting to prevent its workers from unionizing, Volkswagen is offering its support, saying "Volkswagen America is committed to defending our employees' legal right to make a free choice." And that seems to have driven Republicans into a fit of madness.

For starters, state lawmakers have said that the hefty package of tax incentives they dumped into Volkswagen’s lap to entice the company to build in Tennessee could be at risk if the plant unionizes. "It has been widely reported that Volkswagen has promoted a campaign that has been unfair, unbalanced and, quite frankly, un-American in the traditions of American labor campaigns," said Republican state Sen. Bo Watson. "Should the workers choose to be represented by the United Auto Workers, then I believe additional incentives for expansion will have a very tough time passing the Tennessee Senate."

Usually I’d consider it a good thing that a state was rethinking the buckets of corporate tax incentives it doles out, since they do little to promote economic growth or job creation. But it’s anti-union animus, not economics, driving this discussion.

And it’s not just state lawmakers voicing their displeasure with Volkswagen: Conservative groups have poured into Tennessee, buying up billboards saying, among other things, that Chattanooga will turn into bankrupt Detroit if the UAW is successful.

more

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/pat-garofalo/2014/02/13/volkswagen-drives-anti-union-republicans-crazy-in-tennessee

[nathanbforrest45]

Who said anything about taxpayer money? That's only the first step. I'm looking beyond the threat to withhold tax incentives.


What else can the state legally do?

[Green Arrow]

What else can the state legally do?

I'd have to look into that, but who said it had to be legal?

[Newpublius]

You're on the wrong side of this fight, Maine. No offense, but you don't live here. Tennessee politics are screwy. Our governor is a flaming corporatist, as are his allies in the legislature. Hate the UAW all you want, but in this case, they are in the right.

Was this not clear:


In any case, government has no business intervening in the affairs of private companies like this OR GM.

Nevertheless, VW's desire is for a works council:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/02/13/all-eyes-on-chattanooga-vws-workers-are-deciding-the-future-of-unions-in-the-south/

"or their part, Volkswagen executives are lying low and claiming neutrality. They acknowledge their desire for a works council, arguing that their model of labor-management relations serves them well in every other country in the world, except China. Under U.S. law, the company cannot set up a works council without first having its employees vote for a union."

God only knows why....

[Newpublius]

Lord knows I don't want the Good-Old-Days of Cowboy Air Industry back ... Ever :smiley:

And why was that by the way? What government action limited airline liability? There was your problem. Then the private actor didn't care as much, did they? If the government hadn't acted, and an airline went down with somebody in it and the heirs and other survivors sue for wrongful death, they'd win and they'd have to hand over the company or, more likely, have suitable insurance. That insurance company would come in, typical claim avoidance, and say, "If you want a policy, you need to do, a, b, c, d, e, f, g...." or we're not going to insure you and that would be infinitely better than the ridiculous result imposed by the government today, the complete federalization of the TSA? Insane.....absolutely insane.

[nic34]

I have an idea, rather than calling me a liar why don't you go fuck yourself.

Hey dude you made the claim.... but if you have such thin skin, move on, nothing holding you here.

[Chris]

And why was that by the way? What government action limited airline liability? There was your problem. Then the private actor didn't care as much, did they? If the government hadn't acted, and an airline went down with somebody in it and the heirs and other survivors sue for wrongful death, they'd win and they'd have to hand over the company or, more likely, have suitable insurance. That insurance company would come in, typical claim avoidance, and say, "If you want a policy, you need to do, a, b, c, d, e, f, g...." or we're not going to insure you and that would be infinitely better than the ridiculous result imposed by the government today, the complete federalization of the TSA? Insane.....absolutely insane.



You mean the private sector can regulate the private sector--what a novel idea.

[Mainecoons]

Was this not clear:



Nevertheless, VW's desire is for a works council:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/02/13/all-eyes-on-chattanooga-vws-workers-are-deciding-the-future-of-unions-in-the-south/

"or their part, Volkswagen executives are lying low and claiming neutrality. They acknowledge their desire for a works council, arguing that their model of labor-management relations serves them well in every other country in the world, except China. Under U.S. law, the company cannot set up a works council without first having its employees vote for a union."

God only knows why....

I think the "why" is because they are naive. As I suggested earlier, they seem to think they are dealing with one of those cooperative German unions, not that great destroyer of the U.S. auto industry, the UAW. This is going to be a hard-learned lesson for them.

Sorta like the one so many liberals are getting right now with ObombItCare. :grin:

[Mainecoons]

You're on the wrong side of this fight, Maine. No offense, but you don't live here. Tennessee politics are screwy. Our governor is a flaming corporatist, as are his allies in the legislature. Hate the UAW all you want, but in this case, they are in the right.

You may as well invite the Obama administration to take over the VW plant. The UAW's track record speaks for itself.

[nathanbforrest45]

You mean the private sector can regulate the private sector--what a novel idea.


I remember being able to buy flight insurance right at the airport.

Its really horrible that the airline industry was willing to kill its paying customers like that.

[nic34]

You may as well invite the Obama administration to take over the VW plant. The UAW's track record speaks for itself.

You mean like the union built Corvette that won Car of the Year at the 2014 North American International Auto Show?

That track record? Need more?

[Mainecoons]

Why don't you try looking up how many jobs have disappeared under the UAW?

Oh, right, that would be on topic.

DOOH!

http://www.wsws.org/en/media/photos/legacy/2010apr/a01-uaw-290.png

[zelmo1234]

You mean like the union built Corvette that won Car of the Year at the 2014 North American International Auto Show?

That track record? Need more?

Do you know how much the new corvette cost? Not one for the masses I tell you that!

But I don't feel that TN is out of bounds in not investing tax abatements into the new factory!

VW like the current deal, but when the contract expires the union is going to want more, an eventually they are going to have to move out of TN to be competitive!

So why invest tax dollars in a factory that is not likely to stay in your state!

[nic34]

Why don't you try looking up how many jobs have disappeared under the UAW?

Oh, right, that would be on topic.

DOOH!

http://www.wsws.org/en/media/photos/legacy/2010apr/a01-uaw-290.png


Yet manufacturers still build quality products that compete and beat the non-union competition....

Union busting notwithstanding... :thumbsup20:

[Chris]

Why don't you try looking up how many jobs have disappeared under the UAW?

Oh, right, that would be on topic.

DOOH!

http://www.wsws.org/en/media/photos/legacy/2010apr/a01-uaw-290.png



And negative for the UAW. Can't have that.

See, with nic, if the idea fits his agenda, one good fact proves it's all god, and if it doesn't fit his agenda, one bad fact proves it's all bad (see thread comparing Texas and illinois).

[Chris]

Yet manufacturers still build quality products that compete and beat the non-union competition....

Union busting notwithstanding... :thumbsup20:



So let's see. Winning an award vs out selling. Perhaps GM likes awards.

[Mainecoons]

And negative for the UAW. Can't have that.

See, with nic, if the idea fits his agenda, one good fact proves it's all god, and if it doesn't fit his agenda, one bad fact proves it's all bad (see thread comparing Texas and illinois).

And then he starts talking about one very high dollar car model as though that was germane to the core point, namely that these unions are job killers. And to top it off he makes some rather stupid claim that union manufacturers build better cars than non union.

You might want to try and tell that one to Mercedes Benz, Nic. They have a big, very successful non union plant in Alabama.

Or you could just admit you're blowing smoke again because you can't dance your way out of that graph.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Every time I get on a Plane ... I thank God for Government Intrusion :laugh: Lord knows I don't want the Good-Old-Days of Cowboy Air Industry back ... Ever :smiley: Even though they should have known about suicide hijacking since February 23, 1973, when the Israelis revealed that terrorists had that plan, the US Government refused to make a regulation to require airlines to have secure cockpits.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Businessmen are dumb jock bullies. The lawyers they make into politicians are girlymen who like to be pushed around by macho Greedheads. Because of Bizz Skool graduates' mental inferiority, the only way they can make a profit is by cheating their workers. Such predatory beasts use Divide and Conquer tactics to pick off blue-collar workers one by one. Allowing incompetent but unaccountable businessmen to have economic and political power crushes American productivity, none of which comes from these suitcoated thugs.

[zelmo1234]

Businessmen are dumb jock bullies. The lawyers they make into politicians are girlymen who like to be pushed around by macho Greedheads. Because of Bizz Skool graduates' mental inferiority, the only way they can make a profit is by cheating their workers. Such predatory beasts use Divide and Conquer tactics to pick off blue-collar workers one by one. Allowing incompetent but unaccountable businessmen to have economic and political power crushes American productivity, none of which comes from these suitcoated thugs.

Yep good thing we have all those unions in Detroit to keep productivity and profits up? otherwise just think of how much it would have cost the government to bail out the unions!

And if productivity is soooo! Great when the employee's are in charge? Why is it that the failure rate of employee owned businesses is twice that of conventional owned businesses.

It is because people like you do not understand what happens to profits, and how they are re invested to keep a business strong!

[Mainecoons]

Union NO.

Way to go, Tennessee. Why support the people who have a lot of responsibility for ObombedItCare and ObombedIt himself?

Why vote for this?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRf0IM5ZP4Czkc81tY7MFsZ2YljilU0 SRGRrvqy5NavoMn_Xqz

[The Sage of Main Street]

Yep, good thing we have all those unions in Detroit to keep productivity and profits up? Otherwise just think of how much it would have cost the government to bail out the unions!

And if productivity is soooo! Great when the employees are in charge? Why is it that the failure rate of employee-owned businesses is twice that of conventionally owned businesses?

It is because people like you do not understand what happens to profits, and how they are re invested to keep a business strong!

Back in 1970, I worked for someone in the auto business. He told me that all white-collar jobs in Detroit were hereditary, which proves my point that aristocracy is a tumor. The unions had no power to decide what kind of cars would be built, but it is convenient for snobs to blame everything on those who were born to obey spoiled incompetent brats.

As for leveraged buyouts, that's by a few Greedhead dummies in top management whose conceit about their imaginary success leads them to borrow too much to buy up the stock and privatize it. I'm proposing equal shares for each employee and that the stock be confiscated from the parasites without compensation. This is what happened in Eastern Europe when the workers took Communist Party property without compensation. Since Capitalism is Communism for the rich, we should do the same thing here.


There is an easier way, unless you fear the vengeance of ghosts. Abolish inheritance; any dead plute's stock goes to the employees of the companies he had stock in. As for his heirs, let them get ahead on their own, just like real Americans have to. Logically, 47% of the Heirheads will wind up in what Mitt the Twit called "the 47%."

[zelmo1234]

Back in 1970, I worked for someone in the auto business. He told me that all white-collar jobs in Detroit were hereditary, which proves my point that aristocracy is a tumor. The unions had no power to decide what kind of cars would be built, but it is convenient for snobs to blame everything on those who were born to obey spoiled incompetent brats.

As for leveraged buyouts, that's by a few Greedhead dummies in top management whose conceit about their imaginary success leads them to borrow too much to buy up the stock and privatize it. I'm proposing equal shares for each employee and that the stock be confiscated from the parasites without compensation. This is what happened in Eastern Europe when the workers took Communist Party property without compensation. Since Capitalism is Communism for the rich, we should do the same thing here.


There is an easier way, unless you fear the vengeance of ghosts. Abolish inheritance; any dead plute's stock goes to the employees of the companies he had stock in. As for his heirs, let them get ahead on their own, just like real Americans have to. Logically, 47% of the Heirheads will wind up in what Mitt the Twit called "the 47%."

First My assistant is 60 years old a former teacher that could not stand not being able to teach children the truth about history!

She is not the most beautiful person in the world, but I trust her with my life.

Next you have NO clue of what you are talking about, they UNION promoted family to Forman positions, and positions of leadership. The Retirement entitlements is what sucked the money out of GM and Chrysler, Ford fought the Unions and moved factories out of the USA and thus they did not have to take billions to bail out the UNIONS

There was NO money for R and D and thus the cars got worse and worse. GM is still in trouble they have hundreds of billions in unfunded liabilities.

This is what you do not understand, And the government has NO right to private property.

The problem that you have is you don't understand money, there is not one bucket full of money! and it gets divided up. just because I make more money does not cause you to make less

In your system there is no capital, and without capital there is not growth.

Now there is one good point in your system, everyone would be more equal, they would be in dire poverty, and there would be NO revenue to the government, but they would all be in the same boat

And truth be told that is really what people like yourself want, you know you are not willing to work hard enough to be come wealthy that is totally clear by your answer. It is also very clear that you are very, jealous of those that are willing to work that hard and do make it.

Thus you want the government to punish them for there work ethic, and you really don't care that they will not give it to you!

And last that Assistant of mine, that you don't like! She makes a hell of a lot more than she did when she was a teacher!

[hanger4]

Love this quote; 'We don't need the U.A.W. to give us rights we already have, he said. We can already talk to the company if we have any problems.' http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/business/volkswagen-workers-reject-forming-a-union.html?hpw&rref=business&_r=0&referrer= What now nic ?? VW gonna close up shop ??

[zelmo1234]

Here is what I do not understand

TN made a deal with a non union auto maker to give tax incentives to expand there business, thus loosing revenue, in exchange for long term employment in there state.

If VW decided to allow and support a Union, then there cost of production is going to go up, we know this! In past areas where unions had control of the auto makers it has been a disaster to say the least!

So why is it that TN does not have the right to not offer those tax abatements to the company, The company can still expand if they want to!

Why is TN the bad guy for looking out for the long term solvency of there state?

[Green Arrow]

Here is what I do not understand

TN made a deal with a non union auto maker to give tax incentives to expand there business, thus loosing revenue, in exchange for long term employment in there state.

If VW decided to allow and support a Union, then there cost of production is going to go up, we know this! In past areas where unions had control of the auto makers it has been a disaster to say the least!

So why is it that TN does not have the right to not offer those tax abatements to the company, The company can still expand if they want to!

Why is TN the bad guy for looking out for the long term solvency of there state?

Because that's not why they are doing it.

[Mainecoons]

Well, that's not why YOU think they're doing it but you've not made a case here for what you think are the reasons.

I see that TN invested a big bunch of taxpayer money in this thing. Now if I had been responsible for doing so, I would be very conscious of that graph I posted for you above and I'd be very conscious of this union's contribution to the fall of Michigan and I'd also be very conscious of how much of their members' money they give to the Democrats.

You should be thankful that your TN politicians AND the employees of VW had more sense than the VW management has. You and I agree on a lot but, this is the voice of experience speaking, I am old enough to have actually witnessed the destruction of the American auto industry by the UAW AND complicit, incompetent management.

[zelmo1234]

Because that's not why they are doing it.

Everything that has been posted would leave me to believe that they are not willing to invest in something that is likely going to have to move!

I know that you have posted your ideas, but you have a lock of evidence, and that leads me to believe that this is the reason, and I can say that I do not disagree!

[Green Arrow]

Everything that has been posted would leave me to believe that they are not willing to invest in something that is likely going to have to move!

I know that you have posted your ideas, but you have a lock of evidence, and that leads me to believe that this is the reason, and I can say that I do not disagree!

Volkswagen is one of the state of Tennessee's biggest employers, the second being Amazon if I recall correctly. Our governor, state legislator, and U.S. Senator threatening their company over what they want to do that is completely legal may just make them decide to leave the state. Especially when you consider that it's only conjecture that suggests unionizing with the UAW will kill Volkswagen.

I'm just concerned for my state's well-being. If VW decides to leave over these threats, millions of Tennesseans will be out of work and I don't want to see that.

[Mainecoons]

Why would they leave when this vote really is good for them and a reaffirmation that their management is keeping the work force happy? Unless you can back this up, I see nothing in the news which suggested that VW was so UAW gung ho that they would move somewhere else so they could have the benefit of dealing with this job destroying union.

VW had no official position regarding the outcome of the vote. They did not resist the attempt to unionize and they let both sides present their views openly to the work force. Perhaps their management felt that a totally neutral position on their part would work for them regardless of the outcome.

I think you're blowing smoke here, guy. :grin:

http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/sites/tcdailyplanet.net/files/imagecache/NewArticlePic/14/14/worker-freedom-billboard.jpg

[Green Arrow]

Why would they leave when this vote really is good for them and a reaffirmation that their management is keeping the work force happy? Unless you can back this up, I see nothing in the news which suggested that VW was so UAW gung ho that they would move somewhere else so they could have the benefit of dealing with this job destroying union.

VW had no official position regarding the outcome of the vote. They did not resist the attempt to unionize and they let both sides present their views openly to the work force. Perhaps their management felt that a totally neutral position on their part would work for them regardless of the outcome.

I think you're blowing smoke here, guy. :grin:

http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/sites/tcdailyplanet.net/files/imagecache/NewArticlePic/14/14/worker-freedom-billboard.jpg

I said the threats and political bullying by our state government may make them do less in our state, not the outcome of the UAW vote.

[Mainecoons]

BTW, if VW only wanted to organize a works council, I really haven't seen anything about any legal basis that would prevent them from doing so without inviting the fox into the hen house.

[Mainecoons]

I said the threats and political bullying by our state government may make them do less in our state, not the outcome of the UAW vote.

You've said that but offered no substantiation of that fear.

[Green Arrow]

You've said that but offered no substantiation of that fear.

If this were Obama, you'd agree with me. Are you seriously going to suggest that a business would NOT want to leave a state in which they were being pressured by the state government to run their business in ways they may not want to?

[zelmo1234]

Volkswagen is one of the state of Tennessee's biggest employers, the second being Amazon if I recall correctly. Our governor, state legislator, and U.S. Senator threatening their company over what they want to do that is completely legal may just make them decide to leave the state. Especially when you consider that it's only conjecture that suggests unionizing with the UAW will kill Volkswagen.

I'm just concerned for my state's well-being. If VW decides to leave over these threats, millions of Tennesseans will be out of work and I don't want to see that.

It is not only conjecture, Tell the people of Detroit it is conjecture,

You do realize that in the glory days before the unions Detroit was the wealthiest city in the country, Now it looks like a war torn city from WWII

[Mainecoons]

This has nothing to do with Obama. And you still haven't given any substantiation as to this fear.

Let's see, you think they'll leave a huge investment and a satisfied (without a union) work force, plus a chance for another big expansion, because a few politicians got a little pushy about the job destroying UAW?

Like I said, blowing smoke here guy. Find me anything from VW management that supports your speculations.

[zelmo1234]

If this were Obama, you'd agree with me. Are you seriously going to suggest that a business would NOT want to leave a state in which they were being pressured by the state government to run their business in ways they may not want to?

They are changing there business model! and the State is changing it's incentive package to reflect that!

And NO if Obama was doing this to say Solindra I would not have a problem with it!

I would have a problem if they were going to add to the package to cover the additional cost of labor

[Green Arrow]

It is not only conjecture, Tell the people of Detroit it is conjecture,

You do realize that in the glory days before the unions Detroit was the wealthiest city in the country, Now it looks like a war torn city from WWII

Detroit had a lot of problems. It was their government, not the UAW, that destroyed Detroit.

Regardless, Volkswagen is a foreign company from a country where employment and unions are very different. Unless you think the VW management is stupid (and I highly doubt stupid people could run a company that well), I'm sure they know how to handle unions like the UAW without killing their company.

[Green Arrow]

This has nothing to do with Obama. And you still haven't given any substantiation as to this fear.

Let's see, you think they'll leave a huge investment and a satisfied (without a union) work force, plus a chance for another big expansion, because a few politicians got a little pushy about the job destroying UAW?

Like I said, blowing smoke here guy. Find me anything from VW management that supports your speculations.

I'm not going to waste my time. You don't live here. It's not like if I convince you there will be more support for my side in the state. There's no benefit there for me and I don't even know why I have to "prove" political bullying is bad anyway.

You hate unions, so political bullying is okay. Fine, believe as you will. Just stay in Mexico, don't move to Tennessee.

[Mainecoons]

Wrong. It was all of them. The UAW played a major part in the destruction of their tax base. Their government mismanaged what they had. It isn't just Detroit, it is the state of Michigan which has been largely abandoned by the auto industry AND its suppliers. And the UAW had a large part in making this happen.

That's exactly right, unions are very different in Germany and no, I don't think they were stupid but I do think they were very naive. Fortunately, their workers see the UAW for what it is--a leftist job killer.

[Mainecoons]

I'm not going to waste my time. You don't live here. It's not like if I convince you there will be more support for my side in the state. There's no benefit there for me and I don't even know why I have to "prove" political bullying is bad anyway.

You hate unions, so political bullying is okay. Fine, believe as you will. Just stay in Mexico, don't move to Tennessee.

Since you can't carry your argument, you can't back up any of your speculations, so now you get personal and a bit nasty. I'm disappointed in you.

American unions have been long taken over by thugs and extreme leftists. They are proven job destroyers. They could give a shit about their members, really. That is far, far from the situation with German unions. VW isn't the only ones who can't seem to understand this, neither can you apparently.

[Green Arrow]

Since you can't carry your argument, you can't back up any of your speculations, so now you get personal and a bit nasty. I'm disappointed in you.

American unions have been long taken over by thugs and extreme leftists. They are proven job destroyers. They could give a shit about their members, really. That is far, far from the situation with German unions. VW isn't the only ones who can't seem to understand this, neither can you apparently.

Nothing nasty about it. I just don't like out of staters telling us how to handle our affairs. But, fine. I'll do this your way. How do you expect me to prove that political bullying is bad?

[Mainecoons]

That isn't what I asked you to prove. If you go back in the thread you will see that I agreed that the politicians should have stayed out of it. What I am asking you to prove is your speculation that VW might leave because of it. You've presented no proof to back that up.And yes, saying "stay in Mexico" was inappropriate and I'm disappointed in you for that sentence. Until that point I thought we were having a civil discussion and disagreement here.The UAW isn't just about TN. They have devastated practically every work place they've been in. This is not about hating all unions. American unions are not the working man's friend. That's a fact that is obvious to anyone who has observed them over decades as I have.

[Mainecoons]

I might add that outside leftists also made a lot of noise in this matter, right on up to and including Obama.

If unions really represented the interests of their members, than those interests would be polled and political spending apportioned accordingly. Instead, their leftist leadership, some of it openly advocating communism, simply takes their money and gives it all to one side, as I've detailed in my thread about who gets the money.

And I can guarantee you that this had an impact in this union election. Unlike the northern sheeple, most of whom are now out of work, the southern workers understand just what American unions and their leftism have done to kill jobs and distort the political system. This captures that sentiment very well.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72975000/jpg/_72975157_uawbillboard.jpg

Unions should not be allowed to spend their members money this way nor should corporations be allowed to spend their customer's money corrupting the political system. If unions want to win representation elections, they need to embrace free and secret elections and they need to spend all their members' money on improving the condition of working people. Let us know when that happens.

[Green Arrow]

That isn't what I asked you to prove. If you go back in the thread you will see that I agreed that the politicians should have stayed out of it. What I am asking you to prove is your speculation that VW might leave because of it. You've presented no proof to back that up.And yes, saying "stay in Mexico" was inappropriate and I'm disappointed in you for that sentence. Until that point I thought we were having a civil discussion and disagreement here.The UAW isn't just about TN. They have devastated practically every work place they've been in. This is not about hating all unions. American unions are not the working man's friend. That's a fact that is obvious to anyone who has observed them over decades as I have.

I have no proof. It's an opinion, Maine. If I owned a business and faced the kind of interference VW is facing, I'd tell them to back the fuck off or I'd leave.

[Mainecoons]

OK fair enough. Just don't expect a big multi-national company like VW to think like an individual entrepreneur.

BTW, you did notice that there was outside interference from both sides, didn't you?

[Green Arrow]

OK fair enough. Just don't expect a big multi-national company like VW to think like an individual entrepreneur.

BTW, you did notice that there was outside interference from both sides, didn't you?

Of course. What's your point?

[zelmo1234]

Well at least the workers were smart enough to vote to be employed!

[Mainecoons]

Of course. What's your point?

My point is you expressed upset over the Republican pols getting involved but didn't say anything about the other side.

I just can't imagine what the workers there think they are going to get from the UAW besides expensive dues and being forced to support leftist politicians they don't agree with.

That billboard was right on target, like it or not. That's where the money goes.

[Green Arrow]

My point is you expressed upset over the Republican pols getting involved but didn't say anything about the other side.

I just can't imagine what the workers there think they are going to get from the UAW besides expensive dues and being forced to support leftist politicians they don't agree with.

That billboard was right on target, like it or not. That's where the money goes.

I said the legislature, I didn't specify Republican or Democrat. The only pols I singled out were Tennesseans. When the state is a Republican supermajority in both Washington and Nashville, it's hard to find a Democrat to single out. But if you are not a Tennessean, I don't care if you're a member of my own family, I don't like out-of-staters telling in-staters how to handle their affairs.

[Mainecoons]

Well, there were more than a few of them doing just that. Including Obama who has quite corrupted the NLRB. Apparently now the losers are going to try and use it to overturn the election.

[Green Arrow]

Well, there were more than a few of them doing just that. Including Obama who has quite corrupted the NLRB. Apparently now the losers are going to try and use it to overturn the election.

Obama can go fuck himself.

[Mainecoons]

Green, you might find this interesting:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.mx/2014/02/mistrust-leads-to-shocking-union-defeat.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnalysi s+(Mish%27s+Global+Economic+Trend+Analysis)

The works council sounds like a good idea, worth trying.

The UAW is a very bad idea. Note the guy making $20 per hour, $5 more than those "new hires" at UAW plants. That's one of the "benefits" this union gave to younger workers, lower pay for the same work so they could continue to overpay the old bulls.

VW has a very big presence in Mexico. It would be very easy for them to move the TN operation there. Consider the possibility that this could be the result when the UAW started acting like, well, the UAW and the management realized they had invited a viper into their company.

[Green Arrow]

Green, you might find this interesting:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.mx/2014/02/mistrust-leads-to-shocking-union-defeat.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnalysi s+(Mish's+Global+Economic+Trend+Analysis)

The works council sounds like a good idea, worth trying.

The UAW is a very bad idea. Note the guy making $20 per hour, $5 more than those "new hires" at UAW plants. That's one of the "benefits" this union gave to younger workers, lower pay for the same work so they could continue to overpay the old bulls.

VW has a very big presence in Mexico. It would be very easy for them to move the TN operation there. Consider the possibility that this could be the result when the UAW started acting like, well, the UAW and the management realized they had invited a viper into their company.

I don't support the UAW. I'm in favor of the worker's council.

[The Sage of Main Street]

First My assistant is 60 years old a former teacher that could not stand not being able to teach children the truth about history!

She is not the most beautiful person in the world, but I trust her with my life.

Next you have NO clue of what you are talking about, they UNION promoted family to Forman positions, and positions of leadership. The Retirement entitlements is what sucked the money out of GM and Chrysler, Ford fought the Unions and moved factories out of the USA and thus they did not have to take billions to bail out the UNIONS

There was NO money for R and D and thus the cars got worse and worse. GM is still in trouble they have hundreds of billions in unfunded liabilities.

This is what you do not understand, And the government has NO right to private property.

The problem that you have is you don't understand money, there is not one bucket full of money! and it gets divided up. just because I make more money does not cause you to make less

In your system there is no capital, and without capital there is not growth.

Now there is one good point in your system, everyone would be more equal, they would be in dire poverty, and there would be NO revenue to the government, but they would all be in the same boat

And truth be told that is really what people like yourself want, you know you are not willing to work hard enough to be come wealthy that is totally clear by your answer. It is also very clear that you are very, jealous of those that are willing to work that hard and do make it.

Thus you want the government to punish them for there work ethic, and you really don't care that they will not give it to you!

And last that Assistant of mine, that you don't like! She makes a hell of a lot more than she did when she was a teacher!

If she is the one you assign to correct your abysmal spelling she isn't worth a dime! And if you hired a logic teacher, you ought to fire him too. Your self-serving paranoiac fantasy insults the majority of people, who aren't going to put up with your ilk must longer. As for the auto companies and other Greedhead traitors moving overseas, they forfeit their property privileges, which can only be granted by us, the people. We are not a nation of tiny royal dictatorships. The only thing that should be moving overseas is the caskets of those who want to be outsourcers.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Here is what I do not understand

TN made a deal with a non union auto maker to give tax incentives to expand there business, thus loosing revenue, in exchange for long term employment in there state.

If VW decided to allow and support a Union, then there cost of production is going to go up, we know this! In past areas where unions had control of the auto makers it has been a disaster to say the least!

So why is it that TN does not have the right to not offer those tax abatements to the company, The company can still expand if they want to!

Why is TN the bad guy for looking out for the long term solvency of there state?

No-talent Heirheads and no-talent brown-noses in management are incapable of making profits unless they gouge the pay of the workers. This system of inferior, irresponsible, conceited, and unaccountable people in superior positions must be overturned, by any means necessary. If the majority isn't suckered into supporting those on top, the power of numbers will push the suitcoats to the bottom. We will vote for our own bosses and pick not those who go easiest on us, but those who can run the company best and not have to make profits by cheating us. The stockholders are not going to demote people from their own class, so we will make a bonfire of their stock certificates, just like those parasites burned up our jobs, wages, and non-brown-nosing opportunities for advancement.

[The Sage of Main Street]

It is not only conjecture, Tell the people of Detroit it is conjecture,

You do realize that in the glory days before the unions Detroit was the wealthiest city in the country, Now it looks like a war torn city from WWII

Again trying to hide the truth, just like your secretly Right-Wing media does. The parasites who owned the auto companies imported Blacks to break up the unions and work for cheaper wages.

[zelmo1234]

If she is the one you assign to correct your abysmal spelling she isn't worth a dime! And if you hired a logic teacher, you ought to fire him too. Your self-serving paranoiac fantasy insults the majority of people, who aren't going to put up with your ilk must longer. As for the auto companies and other Greedhead traitors moving overseas, they forfeit their property privileges, which can only be granted by us, the people. We are not a nation of tiny royal dictatorships. The only thing that should be moving overseas is the caskets of those who want to be outsourcers.

Aren't going to put up with my ilk "must" longer? That's rich!!!

And I don't hire people to correct my spelling and grammar on a forum? Why would I?

If you must know my spelling is actually better than my typing! But that is another story.

And my ilk has nothing to worry about, because your type lacks the ambition to do anything about it!

look at where all the movers and shakers are ending up! Code and friends started their own business and will quickly become the 1% Many of our vets are starting businesses, and they will succeed!

You are going to need a bunch of people, and the funny part is you are the leaches of society, so even if you do win for the socialists, they will either starve you or kill you when they are through with you!

Like I said your hate for those that are successful is open and apparent, and your unwillingness to learn to be an asset to anyone or anything will kep you on the bottom tear of life! Right where you deserve to be!

[zelmo1234]

Again trying to hide the truth, just like your secretly Right-Wing media does. The parasites who owned the auto companies imported Blacks to break up the unions and work for cheaper wages.

What the hell are you talking about! Henry Ford Senior hire Blacks to work in the first factory. It was the Jews that he hated

And Blacks under union contract made the same dollar that everyone else did, and my black employee's are some of the best that I have, and PS they make the most too!

The unions had wages and benefit packages that added up to nearly 70 dollars and hour and 25 years and out!

WE live here, the Democrat government was totally corrupt and in bed with the unions and they had become accustom to the revenue from all of the high paid workers. When the Carter recession and energy prices hit and the foreign cars came, they had to move to other countries to compete!

But why look at the truth of what happened. And as far as sheep! You my friend are the sheep you are conforming to everything those on the left want you to be! You should be proud!

[patrickt]

For liberals, the problem certainly isn't government interference in private business. For them to go on about that is so hypocritical it's laughable. Their problem is two-fold, though. One is that the interference was against the union. Interference supporting unions is all to the good for liberals. The second problem was that the interference was at a state level. Liberals approve of interference by the federal government on behalf of unions.

I wonder why VW chose to build, and plan to expand, a plant in Tennessee? I suspect someone told them that Tennessee wasn't a union state. They could have built their plant in Michigan--Detroit is empty--or Illinois. Businesses are fleeing Illinois. Then, if VW was actually eager to have a union they would have been obliged.

[zelmo1234]

The reason that Democrats are upset is because they just lost the funding from 1500 workers paying union dues that would have been funneled to the DNC!

The Unions are being broken, people are seeing that they are one of the major causes of unemployment in this country, and this is causing hundreds of millions of dollars that the dnc counts on to win elections! to disappear

[nathanbforrest45]

I don't support the UAW. I'm in favor of the worker's council.


Define "workers council" since it seems to be tied to a union.

[zelmo1234]

In reading on this it seems that they already have it in place! It is a group with members from every department that meets with management to discuss issues in the plant!

They have representation with management, and trying to tie it to a unions is to get union dues to gain political power!

Nothing more. The workers in the VW plant are already on the higher end of the pay scale for auto workers!

[nic34]

Define "workers council" since it seems to be tied to a union.

Did anyone read the article?

If workers at the Volkswagen plant in Tennessee vote for UAW representation, the union and company will form a German-style works council. The council is a structure Volkswagen uses at most of its assembly plants around the world.
Volkswagen says that the UAW has agreed to delegate to the works council many of the functions and responsibilities ordinarily performed by unions.

"Volkswagen considers their works councils their strategic competitive advantage," said Arthur Wheaton, a professor at Cornell University's School of Industrial and Labor Relations. "U.S. labor law does not allow them to have a works council without a labor union."

Wheaton said Volkswagen would prefer to build the SUV in the U.S. because it has the space in Chattanooga and because it would keep transportation costs down.

"Our works councils are key to our success and productivity. It is a business model that helped to make Volkswagen the second-largest car company in the world," Frank Fischer, chairman and CEO of Volkswagen Chattanooga, said in a statement.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...hreat/5388341/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/02/11/tennessee-volkswagen-uaw-incentives-threat/5388341/)

86 vote margin was tiny in Tn considering the way they were basically threatened by outside influences with losing the plant and their jobs.

Corker and his cronies still can't eliminate the pro-union attitude of VW and of their business model.

"We commend Volkswagen for its commitment to global human rights, to worker rights and trying to provide an atmosphere of freedom to make a decision,” said UAW Region 8 Director Gary Casteel, who directs the union’s Southern organizing. “Unfortunately, politically motivated third parties threatened the economic future of this facility and the opportunity for workers to create a successful operating model that that would grow jobs in Tennessee.”

“While we’re outraged by politicians and outside special interest groups interfering with the basic legal right of workers to form a union, we’re proud that these workers were brave and stood up to the tremendous pressure from outside,” said UAW Secretary-Treasurer Dennis Williams, who directs the union’s transnational program. “We hope this will start a larger discussion about workers’ right to organize.”

http://uaw.org/articles/historic-election-brings-outside-interference-vote-chattanooga-volkswagen-workers

[Chris]

nic34 , old news. Today's: UAW's Devastating Defeat in Tennessee: Four Blunt Points


As if anyone needed more evidence of the union movement’s demise, a United Auto Workers defeat Friday in Tennessee illustrated organized labor’s profound weakness in America. Employees at a Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga rejected UAW membership by a vote of 712-626. Consider these four blunt points:

1. If the UAW couldn’t win this one, what can they win? ...

2. Putting ideology and campaign finance first, political conservatives can take credit for crushing the UAW in Tennessee. ...

3. Volkswagen comes out looking pretty darned good. ...

4. The legacy of Detroit continues to haunt unions. ...

[zelmo1234]

Did anyone read the article?

If workers at the Volkswagen plant in Tennessee vote for UAW representation, the union and company will form a German-style works council. The council is a structure Volkswagen uses at most of its assembly plants around the world.
Volkswagen says that the UAW has agreed to delegate to the works council many of the functions and responsibilities ordinarily performed by unions.

"Volkswagen considers their works councils their strategic competitive advantage," said Arthur Wheaton, a professor at Cornell University's School of Industrial and Labor Relations. "U.S. labor law does not allow them to have a works council without a labor union."

Wheaton said Volkswagen would prefer to build the SUV in the U.S. because it has the space in Chattanooga and because it would keep transportation costs down.

"Our works councils are key to our success and productivity. It is a business model that helped to make Volkswagen the second-largest car company in the world," Frank Fischer, chairman and CEO of Volkswagen Chattanooga, said in a statement.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...hreat/5388341/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/02/11/tennessee-volkswagen-uaw-incentives-threat/5388341/)

86 vote margin was tiny in Tn considering the way they were basically threatened by outside influences with losing the plant and their jobs.

Corker and his cronies still can't eliminate the pro-union attitude of VW and of their business model.

"We commend Volkswagen for its commitment to global human rights, to worker rights and trying to provide an atmosphere of freedom to make a decision,” said UAW Region 8 Director Gary Casteel, who directs the union’s Southern organizing. “Unfortunately, politically motivated third parties threatened the economic future of this facility and the opportunity for workers to create a successful operating model that that would grow jobs in Tennessee.”

“While we’re outraged by politicians and outside special interest groups interfering with the basic legal right of workers to form a union, we’re proud that these workers were brave and stood up to the tremendous pressure from outside,” said UAW Secretary-Treasurer Dennis Williams, who directs the union’s transnational program. “We hope this will start a larger discussion about workers’ right to organize.”

http://uaw.org/articles/historic-election-brings-outside-interference-vote-chattanooga-volkswagen-workers



Yes that is the UAW's story. not that it is from their web site!

86 workers out of 1500 is a much larger margin that the last presidential elections which were are told was a land slide for Obama!

The point is the workers in this plant have good benefits, better than average wages, and already have open communications with management?

What was the Union going to do for them???? Collect dues and give it to the Democrats! That is all that they were going to do.

Can you imagine the wage talks Yes we are getting better benefits and wages than most so???? we want more because?

YES they would have forced this to happen and VW would have moved and the TN government knew this!

[Mainecoons]

Oh Lord, another one of Nic's totally tainted references. Nic, genius, do you really think the UAW is going to be fair and balanced?

This is why you make such a fool of yourself here, Nic. Garbage in, garbage out.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[nic34]

VW work councils ARE unions, chris. Works for VW and the uaw was willing to negotiate with them a lesser roll. The south is the only place VW builds that isn't organized.

Sooner or later workers will join, depends whether or not they want to expand.

[Mainecoons]

No genius, they are UNDER unions. In Germany, the union is IG Metall. VW wanted to have one in TN and thinks they have to have a union to have it. Now if they had any sense they'd find a way to have it without inviting an enemy like the UAW into their plant.

If you didn't limit your "research" to such biased crap like citing the UAW, you'd know this simple fact.

[Chris]

And, nic, the workers rejected the union.

[zelmo1234]

VW work councils ARE unions, chris. Works for VW and the uaw was willing to negotiate with them a lesser roll. The south is the only place VW builds that isn't organized.

Sooner or later workers will join, depends whether or not they want to expand.

Now here you actually said something right? If they want to expand they will keep the UAW out as long as possible

If they want to get that 10% raise that will go to the Union, and they will actually not take home anymore, then they will vote for the Union, but it is unlikely that they will expand and have the Union, those do not go together, just as the people of Lansing, Pontiac, Greenville, Detroit and Flint! Unions drove manufacturing away from these areas and they still have not recovered!

[Green Arrow]

No genius, they are UNDER unions. In Germany, the union is IG Metall. VW wanted to have one in TN and thinks they have to have a union to have it. Now if they had any sense they'd find a way to have it without inviting an enemy like the UAW into their plant.

If you didn't limit your "research" to such biased crap like citing the UAW, you'd know this simple fact.

Actually, nic is right about one thing, US labor law won't allow them to form a works council without tying it to a union. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean they have to tie it to a Big Union (same as Big Busibess, the third wheel in corporatism). The workers or VW can form their own union, and most likely will.

[Green Arrow]

VW work councils ARE unions, chris. Works for VW and the uaw was willing to negotiate with them a lesser roll. The south is the only place VW builds that isn't organized.

Sooner or later workers will join, depends whether or not they want to expand.

Do you live in Tennessee?

[zelmo1234]

Actually, nic is right about one thing, US labor law won't allow them to form a works council without tying it to a union. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean they have to tie it to a Big Union (same as Big Busibess, the third wheel in corporatism). The workers or VW can form their own union, and most likely will.

That is not really true, you can have groups of workers that meet with management and they can even talk about collective benefits, It is the strike that becomes the problem if you want protection from being fired, and even then you can form and register your own union, but the democrats have made that so expensive to protect their union buddies that it is nearly impossible

[The Sage of Main Street]

Aren't going to put up with my ilk "much" longer?

And I don't hire people to correct my spelling and grammar on a forum? Why would I?



And my ilk has nothing to worry about, because your type lacks the ambition to do anything about it!

Look at where all the movers and shakers are ending up! Code and friends started their own business

You are going to need a bunch of people, and the funny part is you are the leeches of society
!

You were brought up to believe that someone with your learning disabilities would wind up in an exhausting, boring, and low-paying job for the rest of his life while the smart kids would get easy high-paying jobs. Getting even in advance, you bullied them mercilessly. You, and they too, never realized that this manipulated jealous hatred was by design. The plutes make all their money off the geeks, so they used dumb jock bullies to make the geeks have an inferiority complex and be glad to be looted by the Low-IQ corporate parasites. Unlike those in the movie 21, self-hating geniuses would meekly accept a salary three times higher than the schoolyard bullies would get, but dozens of times lower than what superior intelligence is worth. Income should be based on IQ, except for the self-indulgent escapists who major in Liberal Arts. That too is part of the parasites' design, giving poisoned mind candy to those who don't want to submit to corporate bullying but don't have the guts to use their powerful minds to overturn the upside-down economic system.

[The Sage of Main Street]

. It was the Jews that he hated


The unions had wages and benefit packages that added up to nearly 70 dollars an hour and 25 years and out!

When the Carter recession and energy prices hit and the foreign cars came, they had to move to other countries to compete!

But why look at the truth of what happened? You should be proud!

The average union worker is a real man and a real American. He would have been totally in favor of seizing the Muslims' oil, which would have ended the Carter recession. The sissyboy draftdodging rich trash and their anti-war classmates are the tiny elite group that demands we disgracefully submit to jihadist price-gouging. They control everything in this Preppy Republic.

[Cigar]

So much for Government Getting Out of The Way

[zelmo1234]

The average union worker is a real man and a real American. He would have been totally in favor of seizing the Muslims' oil, which would have ended the Carter recession. The sissyboy draftdodging rich trash and their anti-war classmates are the tiny elite group that demands we disgracefully submit to jihadist price-gouging. They control everything in this Preppy Republic.

Is there any society where your proposal has worked to advance the standard of living for the population

And Bye the Bye, I have in the past known several very high IQ people that cold not pour piss out of a boot if the directions were on the bottom of the heel!

They lack the common sense that God gave a Goose.

I would bet that I could put you in charge of a debt free business, and within five years you would go out of business. because you lack the skills to run a business and of course are too smart to learn!

You see the people that really get things done are people that are wiling to take chances that are not logical! Invest in projects that have never been done. and will not take NO for an answer!

That is typically not the High IQ person! Look at Edison, He did his inventing for others, like Morgan, and Westinghouse, because he lacked the knowledge to raise funds and install mass production Tesla was the same way he actually handed over his patent for AC to Westinghouse who lost it to Morgan and GE

Brilliant people could not run a business to save there life!

[Chris]

So much for Government Getting Out of The Way

The workers voted UAW out, cigar, you paying attention at all?

[nathanbforrest45]

Article in today's paper states that Haslem is beginning talks with VW now that the vote is over. I guarantee that if TN had voted to allow the union any expansion would be over and the new production of the new crossover would go to Mexico. I almost have to ask if VW seemingly supported the unions in order to hedge their bets if the union were voted in.

A union at this plant, at this time, would have been a disaster for Tennessee workers.

[nic34]

The workers voted UAW out, cigar, you paying attention at all?

Were you paying attention to the interference of government and the threats they made?

[nic34]

Article in today's paper states that Haslem is beginning talks with VW now that the vote is over. I guarantee that if TN had voted to allow the union any expansion would be over and the new production of the new crossover would go to Mexico. I almost have to ask if VW seemingly supported the unions in order to hedge their bets if the union were voted in.

A union at this plant, at this time, would have been a disaster for Tennessee workers.

VWs encouragement of the UAW directly disputes this fantasy.

[nathanbforrest45]

VWs encouragement of the UAW directly disputes this fantasy.


Thank you for being so open minded about this

[Green Arrow]

Were you paying attention to the interference of government and the threats they made?

Do you live in Tennessee?

[Newpublius]

Do you live in Tennessee?

I live in the NJ, the United States and have family in Byrdstown who operate the 'family farm' -- what is this insistence in many of your posts that somehow, unless the poster resides in TN that they somehow can't have an opinion on what's happening.

VW's investment implicates not just interstate commerce but international commerce and labor relations between corporations of this size and auto worker's unions are typically governed by the NLRB (the reason the UAW had the right to promote unionization and the recent vote). So frankly, there's a strong Federal nexus here and even if it weren't, the story itself is newsworthy enough to discuss.

So, get off your high horse on this one. Nick has every right to have an opinion and so do I....even if we don't live in Chattanooga.

[Mainecoons]

Were you paying attention to the interference of government and the threats they made?

We were but I'm absolutely certain you weren't paying any attention to the interference from your leftist side including BO himself.

With his all too usual demagoguery:


Obama said everyone was in favor of the UAW representing Volkswagen except for local politicians who "are more concerned about German shareholders than American workers," according to a Democratic aide who attended the meeting with Democratic lawmakers in the House of Representatives.

And don't give me any BS about a closed meeting. It was so closed this was all over the place in a matter of minutes.

You are a flaming hypocrite, Nic, and a glaring example of GIGO.

[Green Arrow]

I live in the NJ, the United States and have family in Byrdstown who operate the 'family farm' -- what is this insistence in many of your posts that somehow, unless the poster resides in TN that they somehow can't have an opinion on what's happening.

VW's investment implicates not just interstate commerce but international commerce and labor relations between corporations of this size and auto worker's unions are typically governed by the NLRB (the reason the UAW had the right to promote unionization and the recent vote). So frankly, there's a strong Federal nexus here and even if it weren't, the story itself is newsworthy enough to discuss.

So, get off your high horse on this one. Nick has every right to have an opinion and so do I....even if we don't live in Chattanooga.

Nothing "high" about it. Just common sense. You don't live in Tennessee, neither does nic. You don't understand our culture and our politics. Nothing we do here (unless we blow up the Sequoyah reactor) will affect anybody outside of Tennessee, so why do you care? Doesn't New Jersey have enough problems for you to worry about?

[Mainecoons]

This was a union election marked by a lot of outside interest and interference for an obvious reason, which has been stated in numerous stories about it: The unionization of any southern auto plant, particularly by a union as destructive of jobs as the UAW, has profound implications for quite a number of southern states that have greatly benefited from non union employers locating there specifically to escape the UAW, SEIU and the AFL/CIO.

If these radical leftist unions start "organizing" the south, the next stop for these jobs is offshore.

Not a local matter, Green, a very important regional and national matter.