Americans are sick and tired of the Middle East.

[Mister D]

VDH expresses what I think most of us are feeling.

---
Snip

Let us review the various American policy options for the Middle East over the last few decades. Military assistance or punitive intervention without follow-up mostly failed. The verdict on far more costly nation-building is still out. Trying to help popular insurgents topple unpopular dictators does not guarantee anything better. Propping up dictators with military aid is both odious and counterproductive. Keeping clear of maniacal regimes leads to either nuclear acquisition or genocide — or 16 acres of rubble in Manhattan.
What have we learned? Tribalism, oil, and Islamic fundamentalism are a bad mix that leaves Americans sick and tired of the Middle East — both when they get in it and when they try to stay out of it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/292917/we-give-victor-davis-hanson?pg=2

[Conley]

Pretty much. I disagree with VDH that jury is out on the success of nation building. You and I have talked about Iraq and I know you're more patient there than I am. I'm ready to call that one a failure too, in terms of American costs versus benefits. The thing that really gets me about Iraq is that it's becoming a huge economic opportunity and it is mostly European and Asian companies that are getting the benefits. There's an active prejudice against American companies which in some ways is understandable, but it is unfortunate.

[Mister D]

Nation building in Iraq must be considered a colossal failure if we are to judge solely by neocon expectations.

[Peter1469]

Nation building in a foreign culture, like Japan or Iraq, will only work if you kill off practically all men who want to fight. Like we did in Japan.

I heard an old Japanese lady on a talk show once say that our nation building turned Japan into a very successful place because the US "killed of the crazy men in Japan."

[Mister D]

Nation building in a foreign culture, like Japan or Iraq, will only work if you kill off practically all men who want to fight. Like we did in Japan.

I heard an old Japanese lady on a talk show once say that our nation building turned Japan into a very successful place because the US "killed of the crazy men in Japan."

Honestly, I have thought for quite some time now that all the aggression and violence of the old Japanese culture is merely under the surface now and comes out in their creepy pornography, for example. Ditto Germany.

[Conley]

Honestly, I have thought for quite some time now that all the aggression and violence of the old Japanese culture is merely under the surface now and comes out in their creepy pornography, for example. Ditto Germany.

:laugh: There is some weird stuff going on there for certain. I guess it's repressed?

[Conley]

Nation building in a foreign culture, like Japan or Iraq, will only work if you kill off practically all men who want to fight. Like we did in Japan.

I heard an old Japanese lady on a talk show once say that our nation building turned Japan into a very successful place because the US "killed of the crazy men in Japan."

Maybe we can apply some of these principles to build up our own nation. :grin:

[Mister D]

:laugh: There is some weird stuff going on there for certain. I guess it's repressed?

Just my thoughts on the matter. I could be talking nonsense.

[Conley]

Just my thoughts on the matter. I could be talking nonsense.

Yeah, I don't know either, but the tentacle stuff made me laugh.

[Peter1469]

Embrace alcohol fuels and once they take hold, we could forget where the Middle East was on the map.

[Conley]

Embrace alcohol fuels and once they take hold, we could forget where the Middle East was on the map.

I embraced alcohol fuels last night and had no problem forgetting all sorts of things.

[Mister D]

Yeah, I don't know either, but the tentacle stuff made me laugh.


There is something going on with that, IMO, but it could be unrelated. I just think there is a relationship between the widespread atrocities of the past and the creepy porn of the present. Yeah, I think repression or a similar psychological process could be at work.