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Peter1469
02-22-2014, 03:12 PM
New FDA Rules Target Organic Farmers (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-food-safety-20140223,0,6831660.story#axzz2u528ngu5)

And it has brought a lot of people together to fight back:


Now, farmers are discovering that the FDA's proposed rules would curtail many techniques that are common among organic growers, including spreading house-made fertilizers, tilling cropland with grazing animals, and irrigating from open creeks.


Suddenly, from small family operations nestled in the foothills of Appalachia to the sophisticated organic-grower networks that serve Los Angeles and San Francisco, the farms that celebrity chefs and food-conscious consumers jostle to buy from are facing an unexpected adversary.


They're fighting back. Even though full enforcement of the rules is still years away, they are warning customers that some farms would have to close.


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-food-safety-20140223,0,6831660.story#ixzz2u5F4kaMQ

Dr. Who
02-22-2014, 03:54 PM
Unless produce is being sprayed with raw fertilizer, the risk of food contamination is very low in a non-industrial setting. However the public should be aware of the need to wash produce. Contamination can occur anywhere, whether you have a million regulations imposed on farmers. Produce departments in stores should have large food safety posters to remind people that the cleanest looking produce can contain surface pathogens, or may become contaminated after they have spent time in the buggy they use in the store, or after a trip down the conveyor belt at the cashier's station, or from that reusable bag. The average grocery story is teaming with e-coli, both from the unwashed hands of the patrons as well as from raw meat. If you aren't smart enough to wash your produce thoroughly before consuming it (both to remove the pesticides and to remove the bacteria), you deserve to be sick.

Cthulhu
02-22-2014, 04:00 PM
A backhanded way to shorten the food supply to make people more easily controlled.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/43078602.jpg

countryboy
02-22-2014, 04:03 PM
It's coming. Be ready......

donttread
02-22-2014, 04:30 PM
New FDA Rules Target Organic Farmers (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-food-safety-20140223,0,6831660.story#axzz2u528ngu5)

And it has brought a lot of people together to fight back:


The bill will no doubt be written by Monsanto's finest

Peter1469
02-22-2014, 04:42 PM
Unless produce is being sprayed with raw fertilizer, the risk of food contamination is very low in a non-industrial setting. However the public should be aware of the need to wash produce. Contamination can occur anywhere, whether you have a million regulations imposed on farmers. Produce departments in stores should have large food safety posters to remind people that the cleanest looking produce can contain surface pathogens, or may become contaminated after they have spent time in the buggy they use in the store, or after a trip down the conveyor belt at the cashier's station, or from that reusable bag. The average grocery story is teaming with e-coli, both from the unwashed hands of the patrons as well as from raw meat. If you aren't smart enough to wash your produce thoroughly before consuming it (both to remove the pesticides and to remove the bacteria), you deserve to be sick.

Agreed. Except you can't remove all pesticides by washing food.

countryboy
02-22-2014, 05:03 PM
Agreed. Except you can't remove all pesticides by washing food.
And you can't necessarily remove all e coli from organic fertilizer by washing either. You pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

Some "organic" pesticides are just as toxic as their synthetic counterparts.

Peter1469
02-22-2014, 05:06 PM
And you can't necessarily remove all e coli from organic fertilizer by washing either. You pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

Some "organic" pesticides are just as toxic as their synthetic counterparts.

E-coli is a problem with all farming, not just organic.

countryboy
02-22-2014, 05:25 PM
E-coli is a problem with all farming, not just organic.
Yep, no disagreement there. I suspect at least some of it stems from not having toilet facilities, or even allowing the illegals to take bathroom breaks.

Cthulhu
02-22-2014, 05:27 PM
And you can't necessarily remove all e coli from organic fertilizer by washing either. You pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

Some "organic" pesticides are just as toxic as their synthetic counterparts.

Preach on. When I did pest control some people thought that 'organic' meant it was safe to eat. I swear some people are just walking Darwin Awards. Chemistry is chemistry. It hates everybody equally. Regardless of whether it is 'organic' in origin.

Dr. Who
02-22-2014, 05:29 PM
E-coli is a problem with all farming, not just organic.
Perhaps all produce should be exposed to specific doses of UV. E. coli requires a UV dose of between 6 -10 mJ/cm² to achieve a 4-log inactivation. Once e-coli is inactivated, it cannot reproduce and therefore cannot make anyone sick.

countryboy
02-22-2014, 05:48 PM
Perhaps all produce should be exposed to specific doses of UV. E. coli requires a UV dose of between 6 -10 mJ/cm² to achieve a 4-log inactivation. Once e-coli is inactivated, it cannot reproduce and therefore cannot make anyone sick.
Are you kidding? Can you imagine the outcry from the so-called "environmentalists"?

Dr. Who
02-22-2014, 05:56 PM
Are you kidding? Can you imagine the outcry from the so-called "environmentalists"?

What's wrong with UV - we're bombarded by UV every day from the sun? It's better than washing your produce with small amounts of chlorine, which is toxic.

countryboy
02-22-2014, 05:57 PM
What's wrong with UV - we're bombarded by UV every day from the sun? It's better than washing your produce with small amounts of chlorine, which is toxic.
Oh, I'm sure there's nothing wrong with it. What does that have to do with anything?

Peter1469
02-22-2014, 06:02 PM
Yep, no disagreement there. I suspect at least some of it stems from not having toilet facilities, or even allowing the illegals to take bathroom breaks.

A lot with the factory farms is the unhealthy condition that the animals are "stored" in.

Peter1469
02-22-2014, 06:03 PM
Perhaps all produce should be exposed to specific doses of UV. E. coli requires a UV dose of between 6 -10 mJ/cm² to achieve a 4-log inactivation. Once e-coli is inactivated, it cannot reproduce and therefore cannot make anyone sick.

I have seen that on a prepper list of things to have.

Ravi
02-22-2014, 07:10 PM
Why should organic farmers be exempt from safety regulations? Maybe I'm not comprehending the article.

Peter1469
02-22-2014, 07:12 PM
Why should organic farmers be exempt from safety regulations? Maybe I'm not comprehending the article.

You are correct.

Dr. Who
02-22-2014, 07:12 PM
I have seen that on a prepper list of things to have.

They do sell units for private use, but I was thinking more along the lines of putting the units in stores. You could have a UV station in every produce department and people could put their produce into an equipped UV box and neutralize the bacteria. Remove the produce from the UV unit and bag to avoid recontamination. Or you could just have the UV lights over the produce all of the time - though I don't know whether there is a problem with prolonged exposure.

Peter1469
02-22-2014, 07:13 PM
They do sell units for private use, but I was thinking more along the lines of putting the units in stores. You could have a UV station in every produce department and people could put their produce into an equipped UV box and neutralize the bacteria. Remove the produce from the UV unit and bag to avoid recontamination. Or you could just have the UV lights over the produce all of the time - though I don't know whether there is a problem with prolonged exposure.

It would be perfect to use over the produce at the store. They could have it on over night.

Dr. Who
02-22-2014, 07:18 PM
It would be perfect to use over the produce at the store. They could have it on over night.

Sounds preferable to bringing in a raft of useless regulations that will put small farmers out of business.

Peter1469
02-22-2014, 07:21 PM
Sounds preferable to bringing in a raft of useless regulations that will put small farmers out of business.

Right. But don't tell Ravi that....

Guerilla
02-22-2014, 07:39 PM
Farm-to-fork growers, she said, need to accept that emerging strains of E. coli and other bacteria can just as easily seep into the produce sold at a farmers market as into the batches of salad bagged at giant processing plants, and they need to tweak their methods to protect against it.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-food-safety-20140223,0,6831660.story#ixzz2u6Jiapqy

Sounds like they are just hatin on organic farming. Wonder when they are going to start targeting organic gardens too.

patrickt
02-22-2014, 07:53 PM
Some giggle when conservatives are targeted but when they raided a dairy farm looking for--gasp--raw milk the leftists should have realized that for Washington, we're all targets.

donttread
02-22-2014, 08:12 PM
And you can't necessarily remove all e coli from organic fertilizer by washing either. You pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

Some "organic" pesticides are just as toxic as their synthetic counterparts.

Crop rotation and other methods can greatly reduce pest

Ethereal
02-23-2014, 12:41 AM
The FDA is just doing what their corporate masters in big agribusiness and big pharma are commanding them to do, crush the competition with onerous regulations and fines. One day, the people will rise up against this tyranny and demand that justice be done.

patrickt
02-23-2014, 05:39 AM
The FDA is just doing what their corporate masters in big agribusiness and big pharma are commanding them to do, crush the competition with onerous regulations and fines. One day, the people will rise up against this tyranny and demand that justice be done.

That's funny. If businesses think they're in charge they will learn, as the leftists are learning, that they are targets, too.

Ravi
02-23-2014, 05:58 AM
It would be perfect to use over the produce at the store. They could have it on over night.

Why put the burden on the supermarket. The farmers can compost their manure before use. Problem solved.

Peter1469
02-23-2014, 07:58 AM
The FDA is just doing what their corporate masters in big agribusiness and big pharma are commanding them to do, crush the competition with onerous regulations and fines. One day, the people will rise up against this tyranny and demand that justice be done.

Word. ^^^

Peter1469
02-23-2014, 08:02 AM
Why put the burden on the supermarket. The farmers can compost their manure before use. Problem solved.

The farmers can and should. Problem not solved. Read post #2. Also, with vegetables, they are often later mixed with those from other farms for packaging. That is another reason I try to get most of mine from my local farmers market.

Essentially unpackaged food at the supermarket is like a buffet line at a restaurant. People sneeze on it, touch it, well you get the point....

Polecat
02-23-2014, 08:37 AM
"Organic" is for the most part a marketing buzz word. Like most of the "Green" industry is a sham. The legitimate practitioners of these concepts get over shadowed by the hucksters taking advantage of consumer gullibility. Many a road side vegetable stand is just reselling super market produce at an inflated price because they can. The practice of using human waste in food production and calling it "organic" is a fallacy. You cannot compost out heavy metals and some pharmaceutical residuals.

nathanbforrest45
02-23-2014, 09:05 AM
They do sell units for private use, but I was thinking more along the lines of putting the units in stores. You could have a UV station in every produce department and people could put their produce into an equipped UV box and neutralize the bacteria. Remove the produce from the UV unit and bag to avoid recontamination. Or you could just have the UV lights over the produce all of the time - though I don't know whether there is a problem with prolonged exposure.

Why do you want to kill people? Obviously if we don't know if there is a problem there is a problem someone doesn't want us to know about. That's the problem with Ring Wingers They just don't care.









​Disclaimer, the above post is meant to be satire.

nathanbforrest45
02-23-2014, 09:06 AM
Sounds preferable to bringing in a raft of useless regulations that will put small farmers out of business.

All regulation is designed to protect the large from the small

Peter1469
02-23-2014, 09:34 AM
Not so much.... Organic is not a buzz word, except to Big Agriculture. That doesn't mean that there are not scams out there- there are. And they use different labels than the official organic label.

The large factory farms are trying to destroy the small organic farmers and that is not good for our health.

There are clear benefits from organic farming. Nutrition. Animal treatment. Pollution. Best land use practices. The list goes on and on.


"Organic" is for the most part a marketing buzz word. Like most of the "Green" industry is a sham. The legitimate practitioners of these concepts get over shadowed by the hucksters taking advantage of consumer gullibility. Many a road side vegetable stand is just reselling super market produce at an inflated price because they can. The practice of using human waste in food production and calling it "organic" is a fallacy. You cannot compost out heavy metals and some pharmaceutical residuals.

Ravi
02-23-2014, 10:24 AM
The farmers can and should. Problem not solved. Read post #2. Also, with vegetables, they are often later mixed with those from other farms for packaging. That is another reason I try to get most of mine from my local farmers market.

Essentially unpackaged food at the supermarket is like a buffet line at a restaurant. People sneeze on it, touch it, well you get the point....

Normally, at least at my grocery store, the organic produce is packaged. The trouble is with veggies that are eaten raw. I learned from this thread that Earthbound Farms uses composted manure out of caution. They will continue to get my business. The organic farmers that don't care about food safety can stick it where the sun don't shine.

Peter1469
02-23-2014, 11:21 AM
Normally, at least at my grocery store, the organic produce is packaged. The trouble is with veggies that are eaten raw. I learned from this thread that Earthbound Farms uses composted manure out of caution. They will continue to get my business. The organic farmers that don't care about food safety can stick it where the sun don't shine.

Well, I get most of my stuff from farmers, not stores, but the grocery store that I go to for the rest has a very large section of vegetables that are not packaged. They have organic and traditional. Anyway, I wash all of my unpackaged food.
Ravi, I also have to add- and this applies to others as well- if you didn't have such an obnoxious signature it would be easier to respond to you. You write something, presumably that you feel strongly about, but the image you convey is contrary to intelligent discussion. If you were a defendant in a high stakes criminal case, would you want your defense attorney to dress like a clown?

Just say'in.

Ravi
02-23-2014, 12:30 PM
Well, I get most of my stuff from farmers, not stores, but the grocery store that I go to for the rest has a very large section of vegetables that are not packaged. They have organic and traditional. Anyway, I wash all of my unpackaged food.
@Ravi (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=698), I also have to add- and this applies to others as well- if you didn't have such an obnoxious signature it would be easier to respond to you. You write something, presumably that you feel strongly about, but the image you convey is contrary to intelligent discussion. If you were a defendant in a high stakes criminal case, would you want your defense attorney to dress like a clown?

Just say'in.you mean you want me to be classy and all?

Ivan88
02-23-2014, 12:33 PM
Now that people are forced to subsidize the cut-burn-poison medical monopoly, they have to get rid of un-poisoned food too.
Gotta make that world population quota some how.
Georgia Guide Stones reveal their intent to reduce world population to 500 million.
Most folks are on their target software as targets.

They pulled this stunt in the Middle Ages too. Killed anyone using herbs. And forced everyone to use doctors who poisoned the people.

If you didn't submit to Rome's anti-life edicts, you were tortured and killed.

Peter1469
02-23-2014, 12:52 PM
you mean you want me to be classy and all?
I don't particularly care. If you want to be represented by a defense attorney in a clown suit, I don't mind.

patrickt
02-23-2014, 01:11 PM
All regulation is designed to protect the large from the small

All regulations are designed to give the regulator power over the regulated.

Bob
02-23-2014, 01:53 PM
Over the summer, the owner of the last working farm in Akron, Ohio, which had been supplying produce to locals for 117 years, said he was throwing in the towel and blamed the FDA's new rules.Don Bessemer (http://www.ohio.com/news/top-stories/bessemer-farms-calls-it-quits-says-new-farm-rules-too-cumbersome-1.411362) told the Akron Beacon Journal that he was up for fighting pests and even drought, but not bureaucrats. Thirty workers lost jobs.
Federal regulators have been scrambling to find the right balance ever since the draft rules set off controversy. The FDA has backed away from some of its positions, and Taylor points out that thousands of the smallest farms would be exempt from new inspections under an agreement negotiated in Congress.
"This is the first time that the FDA will have regulated produce safety on the farm," he said in an interview. (obtained from post 1 link)

This is very important. I saw on CSPAN an owner of the Full Belly farm discussing this with others.
Full Belly Farm | Organic Vegetables, Fruit & Wool (http://fullbellyfarm.com/)

Ravi
02-23-2014, 02:11 PM
I don't particularly care. If you want to be represented by a defense attorney in a clown suit, I don't mind.
Are you offering?

Ravi
02-23-2014, 02:18 PM
Over the summer, the owner of the last working farm in Akron, Ohio, which had been supplying produce to locals for 117 years, said he was throwing in the towel and blamed the FDA's new rules.Don Bessemer (http://www.ohio.com/news/top-stories/bessemer-farms-calls-it-quits-says-new-farm-rules-too-cumbersome-1.411362) told the Akron Beacon Journal that he was up for fighting pests and even drought, but not bureaucrats. Thirty workers lost jobs.
Federal regulators have been scrambling to find the right balance ever since the draft rules set off controversy. The FDA has backed away from some of its positions, and Taylor points out that thousands of the smallest farms would be exempt from new inspections under an agreement negotiated in Congress.
"This is the first time that the FDA will have regulated produce safety on the farm," he said in an interview. (obtained from post 1 link)

This is very important. I saw on CSPAN an owner of the Full Belly farm discussing this with others.
Full Belly Farm | Organic Vegetables, Fruit & Wool (http://fullbellyfarm.com/)


He was known for his sweet corn and yet corn is exempt. I smell a rat.

Ethereal
02-23-2014, 02:21 PM
That's funny. If businesses think they're in charge they will learn, as the leftists are learning, that they are targets, too.

Only select corporations are in charge, and they use the police powers of the state to crush their competition. That's the purpose of virtually every federal agency, from the federal reserve to the FDA, they are the militant wing of a cabal of corporate rent-seekers and blood-suckers.

Peter1469
02-23-2014, 05:07 PM
Are you offering?

If you want a real lawyer, rather than one dressed as a clown. I see that you don't do metaphors.... Whatever. Ravi is going to do what Ravi wants to do.... Even if it hurts Ravi.

Ravi
02-23-2014, 05:46 PM
If you want a real lawyer, rather than one dressed as a clown. I see that you don't do metaphors.... Whatever. Ravi is going to do what Ravi wants to do.... Even if it hurts Ravi.
Well, yeah, if you call getting permabanned harmful to Ravi, lol. I told you a long time ago I was going to post as I please and y'all are free to permaban me. Now I can't even have a stupid sig line without a sermon. :lol:

Mister D
02-23-2014, 05:49 PM
Well, yeah, if you call getting permabanned harmful to Ravi, lol. I told you a long time ago I was going to post as I please and y'all are free to permaban me. Now I can't even have a stupid sig line without a sermon. :lol:

He means you're difficult to take seriously. Granted, he shouldn't assume you care. :wink:

Ravi
02-23-2014, 05:53 PM
He means you're difficult to take seriously. Granted, he shouldn't assume you care. :wink:
:rolleyes: Without me posting here this place is just a rwnj circle jerk.

Peter1469
02-23-2014, 05:57 PM
Attention: Ravi has been infracted for discussing moderation in violation of the Rules.

Bob
02-23-2014, 06:02 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=530951#post530951)
Over the summer, the owner of the last working farm in Akron, Ohio, which had been supplying produce to locals for 117 years, said he was throwing in the towel and blamed the FDA's new rules.Don Bessemer (http://www.ohio.com/news/top-stories/bessemer-farms-calls-it-quits-says-new-farm-rules-too-cumbersome-1.411362) told the Akron Beacon Journal that he was up for fighting pests and even drought, but not bureaucrats. Thirty workers lost jobs.
Federal regulators have been scrambling to find the right balance ever since the draft rules set off controversy. The FDA has backed away from some of its positions, and Taylor points out that thousands of the smallest farms would be exempt from new inspections under an agreement negotiated in Congress.
"This is the first time that the FDA will have regulated produce safety on the farm," he said in an interview. (obtained from post 1 link)

This is very important. I saw on CSPAN an owner of the Full Belly farm discussing this with others.
Full Belly Farm | Organic Vegetables, Fruit & Wool (http://fullbellyfarm.com/)


He was known for his sweet corn and yet corn is exempt. I smell a rat.

Are you talking about the Ohio farmer or the one here in CA who is upset about all of this who was on a panel on C-SPAN?

I don't think the Guy in CA has corn on his farm. I am not sure though,

Mister D
02-23-2014, 06:02 PM
There is a great deal of diversity among the rightists here. The discussions continue regardless of a progressive presence.

countryboy
02-23-2014, 06:21 PM
Not so much.... Organic is not a buzz word, except to Big Agriculture. That doesn't mean that there are not scams out there- there are. And they use different labels than the official organic label.

There is no "official organic label". There are different agencies and groups which "certify" organic. They all have different standards. The USDA standard is probably the lowest of any. In fact, it's almost a sham.

Peter1469
02-23-2014, 06:28 PM
For everyone's information: (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/01/Which-Organic-Label-Should-You-Trust.aspx)

Don't stop at the first paragraph or you will be confused.


There is no "official organic label". There are different agencies and groups which "certify" organic. They all have different standards. The USDA standard is probably the lowest of any. In fact, it's almost a sham.

Mister D
02-23-2014, 06:28 PM
There is no "official organic label". There are different agencies and groups which "certify" organic. They all have different standards. The USDA standard is probably the lowest of any. In fact, it's almost a sham.

Yeah, it's a lot like "humanely raised" or "cage free" eggs. I typically ignore the USDA standard.

countryboy
02-23-2014, 06:32 PM
For everyone's information: (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/01/Which-Organic-Label-Should-You-Trust.aspx)

Don't stop at the first paragraph or you will be confused.
I will read your article later when I have a chance. But, Mercola is a charlatan of the highest order, and I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

I skimmed the first two paragraphs, and as I suspected, lie right off the bat. While I agree that organically grown produce is probably better for the environment, there is absolutely zero scientific evidence to support this statement:
Food grown in healthier soil, with natural fertilizers and no chemicals, is quite simply more nutritious, and as an added boon, will not load you up with dangerous toxins that can destroy your health.

TBH, I wish it were true, but it is simply not.

Peter1469
02-23-2014, 06:38 PM
You just destroyed your credibility with me.

If you want to carry the bucket for Big Agriculture start your own thread.


I will read your article later when I have a chance. But, Mercola is a charlatan of the highest order, and I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

I skimmed the first two paragraphs, and as I suspected, lie right off the bat. While I agree that organically grown produce is probably better for the environment, there is absolutely zero scientific evidence to support this statement:

TBH, I wish it were true, but it is simply not.