I'm tired of it

[ramone]

You know, I'm tired of the "African American", "Muslim American", "Hispanic American", what ever the **k you want to call it and the pc stigma associated with it. Isn't it enough to be an American with American values? All this crap with watching the sands in NYC irritates me, along with allowing illegals to collect a lottery prize and then deporting them with the money.

What kind of country have we become, I'm ready to move to some island somewhere void of anybody who isn't like me. Diversity, yes it is a great success. From the obama beer party on the white house lawn to the factual std stats., throw in holders racial attitude, AA, section 8 and you have nothing but trouble.

[Mainecoons]

Liberals have sought to categorize and divide Americans for 50 years. They have succeeded. Now, what we need to do is divide liberals from the rest of us and give them their own country to wreck. I suggest the formation of three new countries: Californicatia, consisting of CA, OR, WA, ID and NV. Left Coastia, consisting of everything from Maryland north along the coast, particularly MD, PA, NY, NJ, CT, MA, VT, NH & ME.

And the third country would be the land of the free and the home of the brave. The officiaL and only language would be American English. Government of all sorts would be limited to 20 percent of GNP. It would be parliamentary and there would be strict term limits on executive, legislative AND judicial. There would be no civil service. You get hired and fired like anyone else. No government or teachers unions permitted. No endless political campaigning. No fat paychecks and benefits for politicians, you serve because you want to help out and then you go home back to a real job.

Washington D.C. would be emptied out and turned into a monument to what happens when government goes viral.

It's a lovely fantasy, eh?

Unless you're a liberal. You'd have to get a real job. Or if you live in those two liberal countries, you could either starve when they both go the way of Greece or you'd have to give up your stupid failed ideas and move to a free country where you have to work for a living like those taxpayers you've been screwing all these years.

[ramone]

Well I can agree that the government has played a big part in the so called diversity of our republic. Thing is that people tend to self segregate. I don't golf so I don't hang around golfers. I drink whiskey and I tend to have friends who drink whiskey. It's a normal human thing to do that. You don't want to be around people who aren't like you, It's nothing to be ashamed of. Here lies the problem, and the powers to be would be better off to let it go and not push it on people. I tried that with my kids growing up, the harder you push them the more they push back. Our diversity freaks in the public sector must have never had any children.

[Stoney]

There's a well preserved White House in Montgomery, AL ready to for that third country.

[ramone]

It's not meant to be a racial post, but a pro American post. If you want to be called something other than an American you should go back to where you came from IMO.


With that said, there are states who can legally secede. Interesting answers from Yahoo here.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090415134414AAgjJoU

[Conley]

I mean there are Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, etc. and I know you know that. I have no problem celebrating the family and ancestry and I doubt you do either. For me it's not about the something-American it's those that put America behind their own country while reaping the benefits of living here. The country should be unified and immigrants should make the effort to integrate and learn the language. Also, the immigration laws should be enforced and illegals not tolerated. Simple as that. So in that sense I agree with you.

As for secession, I'm completely against it. We have a shared history and it is a glorious one.

[ramone]

As for secession, I'm completely against it. We have a shared history and it is a glorious one.

Not really shared I don't think, same as the civil war was not really a civil war but a war among the states. It was not about slavery as most people think, more so about states rights and commerce. I see a time when the states who can, will, it's that simple. Why put up with these socialistic policies from both parties which hurt us all. There are counties, can't remember which ones that refused the SS act and chose to use their own investments instead. They earn higher yields and are solvent while the government raids the coffers of everybody else.

To think that people will put up with it forever isn't feasible. You can only kick a dog for so long before he bites your ass.

I changed jobs and start with a new company in ten days, one reason being that I can't communicate with the people who work for them. Only one or two speak English and if I need something done I have to hunt down one of the supervisors who can speak our language. It's a constant pain in the ass and I can't get anything done because of it. Productivity suffers and it's my ass that gets the heat. I'm tired of it and am moving to a smaller company that has English speaking workers.

[Conley]

So because DC has screwed it up, the individual states should go to war with each other? Am I reading you right? Why not just kick out the bums in DC? This country has a long list of accomplishments since the Civil War and has done amazing things. No way the Republic of California or Texas comes anywhere close to it. We do have a common history and people compared to other huge nations which have recently split up (USSR). I just don't agree with it. The things you are complaining about could be fixed with a proper federal government.

[ramone]

So because DC has screwed it up, the individual states should go to war with each other? Am I reading you right? Why not just kick out the bums in DC? This country has a long list of accomplishments since the Civil War and has done amazing things. No way the Republic of California or Texas comes anywhere close to it. We do have a common history and people compared to other huge nations which have recently split up (USSR). I just don't agree with it. The things you are complaining about could be fixed with a proper federal government.

Secession doesn't mean war among the states. Not unless the Government decided they needed to stop it, unconstitutionally I would add.

So when, in the near or distant future do you see the fed straightening up? I have been watching it go downhill verging on communism all my life. People in general think that the gov. owe them a good living instead of taking the responsibility to make it themselves. I've worked almost every day of my life since I was 12 at some job, I've never collected welfare or went to some food bank. I did cut my finger off once making wood stakes and collected workman comp for a week. It wasn't enough to live on so I put a piece of plastic around the stump with some black tape and went back to pouring concrete.

This "You owe me something" society we live in is only going to get worse. Yes our country was built on immigrants but back in the day they came here with the expectation that they would have to learn English and fit into society. Not anymore, we spend trillions of dollars in aid to foreign countries. We even send China money each year while borrowing money from them, the system is broken beyond repair and if removing a state from the chaos is the answer then I've no problem with it.

[Alias]

Keep people divided keeps them from uniting. The supporters of big govt lose when the people unite. Our founding fathers knew that. Too bad a lot of Americans don't know what's really going on under the mask of "cultural diversity".

[Mister D]

The point, I believe, is that the assumption that such a diverse group of peoples could unite in any meaningful way was a stupid and incredibly dangerous assumption.

[wingrider]

I want to go to either Costa Rica or the virgin Islands so bad I can taste it .. this country is so screwed up it is gonna take a civil war to fix it.

[ramone]

Costa Rica would be good, I'd pass on the virgin islands.

I agree things are screwed up here to the point of no return. I don't see any way out of it.

[Conley]

I've read that the VI have a lot of crime and corruption. CR seems cool.

[MMC]

Yeah Costa Rico is sounding more and more better these days. Ya'll let me know if ya want go head on down there. We just drive down in Armed Convoy and then set up our Fortress. Pick out any of the Manisons so that we can get labor to build monuments and walls around our Castle Domains. Set up our defenses. Kick out the drug lords and the liberal elites. Accumulate some of those vast resources. Get Elected in our own fixed eletions for likes 20-30yrs.

Then we declare war on the US. Take a couple hostages. Then when The US Shows up enmasse. We surrender and get nation building and our infrastructure built. We promise some of that New Democracy. We then get some of the NGO and NFP money from the US. Then We works on Sams and Missile Defense System and that Military Aid. :laugh:

[Mainecoons]

CR is very expensive and hard to get to. Are you prepared for that?

[ramone]

Yeah Costa Rico is sounding more and more better these days. Ya'll let me know if ya want go head on down there. We just drive down in Armed Convoy and then set up our Fortress. Pick out any of the Manisons so that we can get labor to build monuments and walls around our Castle Domains. Set up our defenses. Kick out the drug lords and the liberal elites. Accumulate some of those vast resources. Get Elected in our own fixed eletions for likes 20-30yrs.

Then we declare war on the US. Take a couple hostages. Then when The US Shows up enmasse. We surrender and get nation building and our infrastructure built. We promise some of that New Democracy. We then get some of the NGO and NFP money from the US. Then We works on Sams and Missile Defense System and that Military Aid. :laugh:

So where do you suggest we go if it comes to it. Maybe you can come back with some honest answer instead of some satire this time. I'm serious about it even if you aren't.

[Mainecoons]

Argentina, where all the Nazis went, or Chile are getting serious attention these days. You live along the coast in Chile, much like SoCal.

[ramone]

Argentina, where all the Nazis went, or Chile are getting serious attention these days. You live along the coast in Chile, much like SoCal.

Chile sounds good to me. Ever watch Ncis,

http://images.wikia.com/ncis/images/f/f4/Ziva_David.jpg

[MMC]

So where do you suggest we go if it comes to it. Maybe you can come back with some honest answer instead of some satire this time. I'm serious about it even if you aren't.


I didn't know you were serious about leaving this Country for good. As for myself I would not leave to go live elsewheres. I make my stand here no matter what goes down. I would stay for those of my bloodline. Protecting them or die trying!

As for myself, if I was not happy in the state I was living I would try elsewheres in the US. Even if it was remote and secluded. As I hate Winter, I would go to the Warmer States, and some city or town not ran by Democrats and their economics.

[ramone]

Maybe you will change your thinking when you are the only one left paying for them.

[MMC]

I am 3 quarters Sicillian and a quarter Irish.....I doubt it very seriously.

[ramone]

I am 3 quarters Sicillian and a quarter Irish.....I doubt it very seriously.

I'm pure European, what is your point?

[MMC]

I'm pure European, what is your point?

That I won't bail on my blood and the lands that blood sweat and tears went into.....that I will protect, defend, and keep the line together. As it is written. It is so!

[ramone]

That I won't bail on my blood and the lands that blood sweat and tears went into.....that I will protect, defend, and keep the line together. As it is written. It is so!

I used to agree with you, now I see no way to overcome it. They are out breeding us at a rate of 8:1, how can we overcome that? Our race is doomed and there is not much we can do about it but produce more children. I've done all I can do.............

[MMC]

I used to agree with you, now I see no way to overcome it. They are out breeding us at a rate of 8:1, how can we overcome that. Our race is doomed and there is not much we can do about it but produce more children. I've done all I can do.............

Like you I have done my part. I have two sons. Neither are ready to take that responsibility, yet. Now all I can do is be there for them. As is expected. For me.....it's until Check-out time!

[Mister D]

There is not much you can do when such a birth rate is combined with high levels of legal and illegal migration. The latter is a far greater problem than the former.

[ramone]

Like you I have done my part. I have two sons. Neither are ready to take that responsibility, yet. Now all I can do is be there for them. As is expected. For me.....it's until Check-out time!

I have two sons also and multiple grand children. I've made plans for them as well to get the hell out of this place along with my grandchildren. I'll not see them subjected to this crap I see coming.

Checkout time could come at any moment I figure. We think alike but have different plans.

[MMC]

I have two sons also and multiple grand children. I've made plans for them as well to get the hell out of this place along with my grandchildren. I'll not see them subjected to this crap I see coming.

Checkout time could come at any moment I figure. We think alike but have different plans.

Yeah.....more than you know and in the Coke thread I was talking about working concrete but not as a finisher like you. :wink:

[ramone]

Yeah.....more than you know and in the Coke thread I was talking about working concrete but not as a finisher like you. :wink:

I'll have to go back and check what I posted, not sure what you were talking about. Yes I finished mud for years........

As for ready, I have about 4 months of supplies put back, rotate my water and get all the mre's I can. If I can't get to another country I can live for awhile. Also have places to meet my family and a couple friends, stock ponds, cabins and a well defended place provided I have to stay here at a moments notice.

[MMC]

I'll have to go back and check what I posted, not sure what you were talking about. Yes I finished mud for years........

As for ready, I have about 4 months of supplies put back, rotate my water and get all the mre's I can. If I can't get to another country I can live for awhile. Also have places to meet my family and a couple friends, stock ponds, cabins and a well defended place provided I have to stay here at a moments notice.

Such was what I meant by we had more in common than you know. :wink: I still have a couple of hard-heads I am dealing with. :grin:

[wingrider]

CR is very expensive and hard to get to. Are you prepared for that?
Costa Rica is not Expensive.. you can live pretty wel on about 1500 a month

here ya go check it out
http://www.therealcostarica.com/living_in_costa_rica/cost_of_living_costarica.html

[Mainecoons]

I have it from first hand information from people who have lived there and moved to Mexico because of the very hot, humid climate and the very cost of housing there.

[Mister D]

I read some of the information Wing linked to. It seems to depend on what you're looking for (location, size or property, amenities etc). That's no surprise. I suppose that's true of most places.

[Conley]

That's the thing. In the U.S. you can find just about any sort of people and any sort of climate. You can be on your own in Alaska, out in the desert in New Mexico, liberals in California or conservatives in the deep South. There's such a variety of people, climate, geography, urban vs. rural, etc. I personally wouldn't give up on the U.S. without doing a lot of travelling first. That would be the only way to make sure what I wanted wasn't here all along. To each his own I suppose.

[MMC]

That's the thing. In the U.S. you can find just about any sort of people and any sort of climate. You can be on your own in Alaska, out in the desert in New Mexico, liberals in California or conservatives in the deep South. There's such a variety of people, climate, geography, urban vs. rural, etc. I personally wouldn't give up on the U.S. without doing a lot of travelling first. That would be the only way to make sure what I wanted wasn't here all along. To each his own I suppose.

Think it is possible to build a self sufficient community?

[Conley]

Think it is possible to build a self sufficient community?

Oh absolutely no question in my mind. I liked what you wrote earlier, I know you were joking but I've often daydreamed about living on a compound with similar-minded friends and family.

[MMC]

Well I often wondered what the Fed or State would say if one was to build a castle/fortress. Say like built down in and under the Grand Canyon. Or the Appalachians and Or Rockies.

I know some have had castles flown over. Muhammed Ali did it for a place in Olympia Fields Illinois. But it was small-like. He lost it to his first wife with their divorce. She actully lives now in Country Club Hills Illinois. Same Suburb my Mother was living in.

[ramone]

Well I often wondered what the Fed or State would say if one was to build a castle/fortress

They would send the ATF in on you, just like Waco, and Randy Weaver. At the very least they would harass you constantly. Any type militia group, (doesn't have to be a militia) is on their radar, they fear armed citizens who band together.

[Mister D]

I honestly do not believe this government could handle a real separatist movement (i.e. dedicated and uncompromising) or even an IRA type insurgency.

[wingrider]

Think it is possible to build a self sufficient community?
HMMMMM> i don't know big fella ... you might want to remember David Koresh , of ruby ridge just saying

[ramone]

HMMMMM> i don't know big fella ... you might want to remember David Koresh , of ruby ridge just saying

Randy Weaver was of Ruby ridge, David Koresh was from the Waco compound. Both bullshit from our feds.

[wingrider]

Randy Weaver was of Ruby ridge, David Koresh was from the Waco compound. Both bullshit from our feds. yes I seen my typo , I meant to write OR and hit the f instead, my bad

[spunkloaf]

Liberals have sought to categorize and divide Americans for 50 years. They have succeeded. Now, what we need to do is divide liberals from the rest of us and give them their own country to wreck. I suggest the formation of three new countries: Californicatia, consisting of CA, OR, WA, ID and NV. Left Coastia, consisting of everything from Maryland north along the coast, particularly MD, PA, NY, NJ, CT, MA, VT, NH & ME.

And the third country would be the land of the free and the home of the brave. The officiaL and only language would be American English. Government of all sorts would be limited to 20 percent of GNP. It would be parliamentary and there would be strict term limits on executive, legislative AND judicial. There would be no civil service. You get hired and fired like anyone else. No government or teachers unions permitted. No endless political campaigning. No fat paychecks and benefits for politicians, you serve because you want to help out and then you go home back to a real job.

Washington D.C. would be emptied out and turned into a monument to what happens when government goes viral.

It's a lovely fantasy, eh?

Unless you're a liberal. You'd have to get a real job. Or if you live in those two liberal countries, you could either starve when they both go the way of Greece or you'd have to give up your stupid failed ideas and move to a free country where you have to work for a living like those taxpayers you've been screwing all these years.

I really want to choke you right now. But then again, I have a similar prejudice to yours that I struggle with as well, and I have empathy for your anger which is just as misdirected as mine can be.

You speak of liberals, such as so many erroneously and readily do, as the freeloaders and scum which burden the nation. You speak of liberals as dividing our nation. I tell you from the bottom of my very being that your assumptions have been carefully orchestrated to make you do just as you are speaking of. Almost everything you say is something I can relate to, and I consider myself a liberal. Yet you despise liberals. There is an obvious disconnect there. A divide, if you will. That divide lies in your very definition of a liberal, which is not what a liberal is at all. Just as I have been deceived, you have been deceived to blame your fellow citizens for our nation's problems.

The people you define as liberals are not what liberals really are. Granted, some are, that's certain. However liberalism is not defined as a political agenda by people to freeload and build a bigger government. That is just as true as it is that conservatism is not defined as a political agenda by people who want to rule the world with religion and promote the white race. It's all bullshit. It's a game designed for us all to play. It's working splendidly because here we all are, and we're getting fucked while blaming each other.

I can assure you that the instigators of this whole mess follow neither a liberal nor conservative agenda, but aspire world domination by means of everybody's naivety and pointy fingers. Your biggest challenge moving forward is to recognize that as I try to do, and try not to hate. I fail at this miserably sometimes. It's important to remember that we all have the same needs, though we're very different people. That's why I can agree with some of the things you say that are wrong with our nation, except the things which divide us---like splitting the nation, or blaming liberals alone. I don't think you really mean to widen the divide. You're pissed off, and you need to put that anger somewhere.

[spunkloaf]

I have good advice for everybody. If you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, then stop being sick and tired. We'll all stand together, or we won't stand at all. Don't hate. Educate.

[wingrider]

I really want to choke you right now. But then again, I have a similar prejudice to yours that I struggle with as well, and I have empathy for your anger which is just as misdirected as mine can be.

You speak of liberals, such as so many erroneously and readily do, as the freeloaders and scum which burden the nation. You speak of liberals as dividing our nation. I tell you from the bottom of my very being that your assumptions have been carefully orchestrated to make you do just as you are speaking of. Almost everything you say is something I can relate to, and I consider myself a liberal. Yet you despise liberals. There is an obvious disconnect there. A divide, if you will. That divide lies in your very definition of a liberal, which is not what a liberal is at all. Just as I have been deceived, you have been deceived to blame your fellow citizens for our nation's problems.

The people you define as liberals are not what liberals really are. Granted, some are, that's certain. However liberalism is not defined as a political agenda by people to freeload and build a bigger government. That is just as true as it is that conservatism is not defined as a political agenda by people who want to rule the world with religion and promote the white race. It's all bullshit. It's a game designed for us all to play. It's working splendidly because here we all are, and we're getting fucked while blaming each other.

I can assure you that the instigators of this whole mess follow neither a liberal nor conservative agenda, but aspire world domination by means of everybody's naivety and pointy fingers. Your biggest challenge moving forward is to recognize that as I try to do, and try not to hate. I fail at this miserably sometimes. It's important to remember that we all have the same needs, though we're very different people. That's why I can agree with some of the things you say that are wrong with our nation, except the things which divide us---like splitting the nation, or blaming liberals alone. I don't think you really mean to widen the divide. You're pissed off, and you need to put that anger somewhere.

great post spunk, I am a conservative at heart, but there is so much in your post that I agree with its scary.. yes this nation is so divided and ike you I am beginning to think it is on purpose, the powers that be are playing us like a cheap violin to deep us distracted from what is really going on..

[spunkloaf]

There are some real differences between liberals and conservatives, but they don't go nearly as deep as what is being portrayed by the political pundits and politicians. The notion that any American doesn't act American enough is bullshit. It actually makes us all weaker by dividing us. What is American, anyways? We're a nation of immigrants. We define America in real-time. With all this hatred bouncing back and forth, America is a pissed-off mad house right now.

[wingrider]

I could not agree with you more.. brother you called it right. I am 62 years old and have never in my lifetime ever seen America so divided. it almost makes me want to vomit.

[spunkloaf]

The secret is empathy. People need to absorb the bullshit without taking offense and try to set the record straight. It does no good to get pissed off about assumptions which are incorrect to begin with. Connect with the anger and frustration from your opponent and try to understand it, don't focus on where it's being directed.

Easy to say...

[wingrider]

sounds like good advice though, I will try to follow it.. but don't get mad if I mess up once in a while.. just remember I am trying... and most people who know me will tell you I am very trying.LOL

[spunkloaf]

Shit I hear you, I got pretty upset the other day. But at the very least, I think I kept my frustration focused on individuals--not groups.

[Mister D]

There are some real differences between liberals and conservatives, but they don't go nearly as deep as what is being portrayed by the political pundits and politicians. The notion that any American doesn't act American enough is bullshit. It actually makes us all weaker by dividing us. What is American, anyways? We're a nation of immigrants. We define America in real-time. With all this hatred bouncing back and forth, America is a pissed-off mad house right now.

All nations are nations of immigrants. That's an inane mantra. Human beings don't grow out of the ground. No, America is a boarding house right now.

[MMC]

I think D asked the Appropriate question in another thread. Is our Government and POLS at War with us? This must be looked into very carefully and if found to be true. Then must be dealt with swiftly.

People are pissed off and they are looking to vent and take frustrations out on those responsible. Yet they cannot. The Law. The ability to get to the ones so they can be heard. Then the MSM that blocks as much as they can to protect who they are in bed with. Pols that refuse to answer questions.

Is the government looking to remove obstacles that it knows can take it down? Do these Pols think they can sell out and get out without getting caught by the American people. U-can-bet-your-azz-on-it!

[Mainecoons]

I really want to choke you right now. But then again, I have a similar prejudice to yours that I struggle with as well, and I have empathy for your anger which is just as misdirected as mine can be.

You speak of liberals, such as so many erroneously and readily do, as the freeloaders and scum which burden the nation. You speak of liberals as dividing our nation. I tell you from the bottom of my very being that your assumptions have been carefully orchestrated to make you do just as you are speaking of. Almost everything you say is something I can relate to, and I consider myself a liberal. Yet you despise liberals. There is an obvious disconnect there. A divide, if you will. That divide lies in your very definition of a liberal, which is not what a liberal is at all. Just as I have been deceived, you have been deceived to blame your fellow citizens for our nation's problems.

The people you define as liberals are not what liberals really are. Granted, some are, that's certain. However liberalism is not defined as a political agenda by people to freeload and build a bigger government. That is just as true as it is that conservatism is not defined as a political agenda by people who want to rule the world with religion and promote the white race. It's all bullshit. It's a game designed for us all to play. It's working splendidly because here we all are, and we're getting fucked while blaming each other.

I can assure you that the instigators of this whole mess follow neither a liberal nor conservative agenda, but aspire world domination by means of everybody's naivety and pointy fingers. Your biggest challenge moving forward is to recognize that as I try to do, and try not to hate. I fail at this miserably sometimes. It's important to remember that we all have the same needs, though we're very different people. That's why I can agree with some of the things you say that are wrong with our nation, except the things which divide us---like splitting the nation, or blaming liberals alone. I don't think you really mean to widen the divide. You're pissed off, and you need to put that anger somewhere.

Nice rant except you're puttiing words in my posts and you appear to not understand that I understand very clearly that progressives run both political parties and they have cooperated in creating this mess. Believe me, I have just as much contempt for the Bush clan as I do for Obama and Kerry and Gore.

I haven't called liberals "freeloaders or scum." Liberal ideas foster freeloading just as they foster divisiveness. I doubt most freeloaders really pay attention to politics other than to vote for people who will give them something for nothing, usually liberals. I understand the common thread that ties Americal liberals together, you apparently do not.

You do not see real conservatives dividing people up by race and income. You do not see conservatives constantly playing the race card. Those are liberal gigs whether you chose to admit it or not.

My point in that tongue in cheek post is this: There really is no reconciliation possible with the likes of Obama, Holder, Ayers, Bell, Jeremiah Wright, etc. etc. etc. and the people who support these radicals. They simply do not hold the same values on which this country was based and are not going to wake up and smell the coffee. Better to let them have their own country that they can wreck with the same old failed ideas without dragging the rest of us down.

Like most liberals, you become abusive and lash out personally when told your ideas stink. That's a very liberal trait, if you don't believe me, spend a little time watching Matthews, Olberman, Maddow, or Obama himself. I have watched as liberals have gotten nastier and nastier as the evidence piles up that Obama and his radical administration was one of the biggest mistakes America has ever made. I think you screwed up big time and you get mad as hell when anyone points the obvious failure of your ideas and how you all let your obsession with race and racial politics con you into nominating a real bad apple over much better qualifed and less divisive candiates.

I'm getting a little tired of your ad homs and personal statements. You need to learn to accept other points of view without making unpleasant personal comments. I don't go around threatening to choke people. You are welcome to try, you might find yourself getting a well deserved ass kicking for making statements like that.

[Alias]

Message to liberals: Stop dividing people up by class and skin color. We are all human beings who want freedom to raise our families in peace. Let's focus on what will help us all do that.

[ramone]

All nations are nations of immigrants. That's an inane mantra. Human beings don't grow out of the ground. No, America is a boarding house right now.

Possibly, but the out of Africa theory doesn't hold water in the end. does it? I don't even believe in god, or that thinking either, but I see flaws in it, not to mention some scientific proof according to dna that doesn't jive in the end.

[spunkloaf]

Mainecoons.

In case you missed it, I was trying to extend a bridge over a divide of distrust, misguided anger and confusion that exists between us as polarized political debaters. It seems to me that you are much more comfortable with continuing to stereotype and peg me as something much more difficult and dimwitted, regardless of my actual demeanor. I get the feeling I've insulted you. Sorry about the choke part. It was not a threat. I think you know that, and I think you purposefully took it out of context. I should have foreseen that. You are obviously not comfortable enough with me to observe that as a figure of speech portraying my frustration. My bad. In the future, don't take such statements of mine as literally as you did. I don't physically harm people, and have never been known to.


I haven't called liberals "freeloaders or scum."

Fair enough.


Liberal ideas foster freeloading just as they foster divisiveness.

:laugh:...I spoke too soon. No, my fellow American, they do not. At least not directly. First off, nobody's perfect with their ideas. Obama proves that. Bush proved it...everybody who has put an idea to work has proved this. When you say liberal ideas foster freeloading, you're probably thinking of welfare. The welfare system is largely taken advantage of, is over-inflated, and it desperately needs reform. Agreed? I'll point out that the liberal idea of providing welfare to those who need it does not foster freeloading. The lack of a better, more efficient and smaller welfare system fosters freeloading. (...did a liberal just say "smaller??" ;-) ) Furthermore, I'll point out that providing for those who are unable to provide for themselves is not just a liberal idea. It's something that most people feel is the right thing to do, but they will certainly disagree on the best way of doing it.

About your beef with liberal divisiveness: What?



You do not see real conservatives dividing people up by race and income.

I will not say that as a whole conservatives do this. No.



You do not see conservatives constantly playing the race card.

Again. I will not say that as a whole conservatives do this. No.



Those are liberal gigs whether you chose to admit it or not.

Whoa. Is that really a fair and complete statement? No. I'm a liberal. I'm white, and I don't use my race as an excuse for anything. I work with some black people. At least one is a liberal. They have no more or less opportunity than me, neither do they expect any.

Are there people out there who do use the race card? Absolutely. And it's absolutely deplorable. Agreed? Some of them are liberals. I bet ya some are even conservatives. Does that make it a liberal gig? Or a conservative gig for that matter? No. It's just an excuse for being lazy gig...minus the "gig."



My point in that tongue in cheek post is this: There really is no reconciliation possible with the likes of Obama, Holder, Ayers, Bell, Jeremiah Wright, etc. etc. etc. and the people who support these radicals. They simply do not hold the same values on which this country was based and are not going to wake up and smell the coffee. Better to let them have their own country that they can wreck with the same old failed ideas without dragging the rest of us down.

Opinion noted...but what of Obama? Has he been displaying any radicalism or degrading American values? If he is, he's doing a piss-poor job of it because I can't see it. Help me see it if you insist he is. I am actually asking, not just blindly challenging your statement. I do hope to hear back on this.



Like most liberals, you become abusive and lash out personally when told your ideas stink.

Even if I dismiss the absurdity in this statement, I don't think you know me well enough to conclude anything about me. Yeah I got pretty upset a week ago, flew a little off the handle. I was drunk, what can I say? I'm not Jesus Christ.



That's a very liberal trait.

Again, you're stereotyping and pigeonholing me. It's...really...a poor stereotype, too. How many tantrums did you observe to come to this conclusion? Mine, and...mine? Notice I have not stereotyped or pigeonholed you, nor conservatism. Although I'd really like to mention a "conservative" trait you're conducting right now. Out of respect, and to honor my principles, I won't say what it is. But it is very typical and not surprising, and unfortunately conservatives act this way more than anybody... gosh I feel bad saying that and not even telling you what it is.



if you don't believe me, spend a little time watching Matthews, Olberman, Maddow, or Obama himself. I have watched as liberals have gotten nastier and nastier as the bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

No excuse. Be the bigger person. Realize that Matthews, Olberman and Maddow are out to make a buck. They'll take on any despicable act to do it. I'm disappointed that you watch them. I don't. They're no different than Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly (rumored to originally be a liberal until he found out that spouting right-wing political propaganda pays more), Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, etc. etc. I don't mean to offend you with the bla bla bla's in the quote above. I just want to know one thing. How much of the rest of that paragraph is self-entertaining sentiment, and how much can actually be referenced as hard facts? How nasty do liberals actually get? On a scale of 1-10. How nasty am I being to you? How much nastier can I get?



I think you screwed up big time and you get mad as hell when anyone points the obvious failure of your ideas and how you all let your obsession with race and racial politics con you into nominating a real bad apple over much better qualifed and less divisive candiates.

Dude. (can I call you dude?) That is just...I mean...WHAT???



I'm getting a little tired of your ad homs and personal statements.

:cry:

I LOVE what you say right after this. It's just perfect. 3. 2. 1. And.......




You need to learn to accept other points of view without making unpleasant personal comments.



:applause:


I'm laughing with you, Mainecoons. Just remember that, k? Lots of love.


Your new favorite fan, :kiss:

Spunkloaf


P.S. :grin:

[spunkloaf]

Message to liberals: Stop dividing people up by class and skin color. We are all human beings who want freedom to raise our families in peace. Let's focus on what will help us all do that.

Message to Alias: stop it

Now tell me. If I posted this statement instead of you, how would you respond? Be completely honest, regardless if it appears to make any sense or not.

"Message to conservatives: Stop dividing people up by class and skin color. We are all human beings who want freedom to raise our families in peace. Let's focus on what will help us all do"

Didn't make much sense to you, did it? Did you laugh as hard as I did when I read yours? Never mind, that's not important. How would you respond to it? How does it make you feel? How much do you want to just tell me off and give me a piece of your mind right now??? Be honest. Brutally honest. Let's both observe the meaning of our words for a moment here because that's very important in communication.

[spunkloaf]

Sorry Mainecoons and Alias. Those posts were kinda harsh, I don't know how else to express myself. I mean well. :smiley:

[Mainecoons]

"Message to conservatives: Stop dividing people up by class and skin color. We are all human beings who want freedom to raise our families in peace. Let's focus on what will help us all do"

If you posted this, you'd be a liar. The fact remains that the race game belongs to you liberals. Face up to it.

If you want to roast the neocons for war mongering and bible pounding, you'd get agreement. But the race card is yours, all yours.

31

[MMC]

Race and class-warfare. :wink:

[Stoney]

Divide and conquer.