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Cthulhu
02-26-2014, 01:16 PM
Here is why, just go here http://www.veterancourtcodes.com and poke around a bit. You'll figure it out in no time. I hadn't even the foggiest idea they were this crooked.

Just gives person more reason to hate them.

This particular nugget (http://www.veterancourtcodes.com/vccpdf/SPOLIATION%20%20OF%20%20EVIDENCE.pdf) is a real gem.

Libhater
03-02-2014, 07:06 PM
With all due respect I do believe the reason no one has responded is because they haven't had a problem with the VA. I've been going to various VA hospitals (some more efficient than others) for some 42 years now. While I admit that there was a backlog of PTSD cases (including mine) in the mid-nineties when I finally got my 100% service connection, the patient wait for me to see the compensation board was surely worth it considering the retro pay and my current retirement status and all. As far as the medical service goes---I haven't had a problem since they always seem to be prompt when calling my name for any given appointment time.

Max Rockatansky
03-02-2014, 08:14 PM
I've only been to a VA hospital a couple of times and that was because it was the closet one. No problems noted. Aside from high frequency hearing loss, I have no service related illnesses or injuries. I'm 58 now and won't start Tricare until age 60. My dad retired off active duty in 1975 and he's been on military medical since then including a quadruple bypass. I've never heard him complain about his medical care, but I've read reports of others who have.

We don't have to look too far back to remember the Walter Reed debacle:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/17/AR2007021701172.html

.....The common perception of Walter Reed is of a surgical hospital that shines as the crown jewel of military medicine. But 5 1/2 years of sustained combat have transformed the venerable 113-acre institution into something else entirely -- a holding ground for physically and psychologically damaged outpatients. Almost 700 of them -- the majority soldiers, with some Marines -- have been released from hospital beds but still need treatment or are awaiting bureaucratic decisions before being discharged or returned to active duty.

They suffer from brain injuries, severed arms and legs, organ and back damage, and various degrees of post-traumatic stress. Their legions have grown so exponentially -- they outnumber hospital patients at Walter Reed 17 to 1 -- that they take up every available bed on post and spill into dozens of nearby hotels and apartments leased by the Army. The average stay is 10 months, but some have been stuck there for as long as two years.......

Peter1469
03-02-2014, 09:40 PM
I had a problem with the VA after my first enlistment. I haven't gone back to a VA hospital since.


With all due respect I do believe the reason no one has responded is because they haven't had a problem with the VA. I've been going to various VA hospitals (some more efficient than others) for some 42 years now. While I admit that there was a backlog of PTSD cases (including mine) in the mid-nineties when I finally got my 100% service connection, the patient wait for me to see the compensation board was surely worth it considering the retro pay and my current retirement status and all. As far as the medical service goes---I haven't had a problem since they always seem to be prompt when calling my name for any given appointment time.

Ravi
03-03-2014, 05:48 AM
I've only been to a VA hospital a couple of times and that was because it was the closet one. No problems noted. Aside from high frequency hearing loss, I have no service related illnesses or injuries. I'm 58 now and won't start Tricare until age 60. My dad retired off active duty in 1975 and he's been on military medical since then including a quadruple bypass. I've never heard him complain about his medical care, but I've read reports of others who have.

We don't have to look too far back to remember the Walter Reed debacle:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/17/AR2007021701172.html
Walter Reed isn't part of the VA.

Common
03-03-2014, 06:00 AM
Walter Reed isn't part of the VA.

You are correct it is not, alot of people make that mistake

Common
03-03-2014, 06:11 AM
Seems the VA and its quality of service is state to state and hospital to hospital. There are VA clinics and facilities in florida that are excellent.
Its no different than the private hospital system. Each hospital has varying statistics on cleanliness, Infection rates, Surgery Success in categories. Alot of the success or failues have to do with the skill of the doctors. For example, the private hospital closest to me has one of the highest ratings for spine surgery. Thats specifically because of two spine surgeons, they only have two.

Vets who have a bad experience in a va facility or with a VA dr, have a tendency to blame the entire VA. The va does alot of good and there are many vets who are very happy with the care they get.

What vets do seem to be complaining more about is the changes to their coverage and the way its delivered. Those changes are no different than any other health plan or system. Vets like my father, enjoyed approval for anything anytime. The VA and the country cant afford that any more.
Another source of alot of complaints about the VA are coming from non combat vets who finding its not automatic to be approved for VA benefits anymore. If you make a certain amount of income and you did not have boots on the ground in theatre you will not receive VA benefits today

Max Rockatansky
03-03-2014, 07:44 AM
Walter Reed isn't part of the VA.

True, but it deals with the amount of money set aside to treat veterans. A fund I'm sure the Democrats will push to cut....again.

Cthulhu
03-03-2014, 10:13 AM
With all due respect I do believe the reason no one has responded is because they haven't had a problem with the VA. I've been going to various VA hospitals (some more efficient than others) for some 42 years now. While I admit that there was a backlog of PTSD cases (including mine) in the mid-nineties when I finally got my 100% service connection, the patient wait for me to see the compensation board was surely worth it considering the retro pay and my current retirement status and all. As far as the medical service goes---I haven't had a problem since they always seem to be prompt when calling my name for any given appointment time.

Some experiences are good and some are bad. The real problem is that you cannot inspire them to improve because they are government funded. Good luck suing the VA for malpractice. A normal hospital fears being sued to they step up their care a notch or two. The VA being an arm of the government has no such fears for accountability.

Just recently my brother got an infection in his knee while at work so he went to the VA hospital to get it checked out. They didn't do a culture on the infection or a thorough examination from what he says, they just gave him a prescription and sent him on the way.

It got worse. So he went to a real hospital where they did a real examination and a tissue sample to see what is going on. Turns out they didn't prescribe the right meds and it made the situation worse. But thankfully to real doctors his knee ought to be fine.

At the same time, I have gotten eyeglasses from them that seem to work fine. Granted, it took 6 weeks to get them, but it didn't cost me anything. I also have orthotics from them, which also took some time to get, but also at no cost to me.

Basically, the beef isn't that they screw up (well sometimes it is), but that there is no legitimate legal recourse when they do mess up.

If you want to sue the VA - get in line.

Rebel Son
03-03-2014, 12:13 PM
If you want to feel like you are in a cattle yard and served by sands be my guest. Go get you some va medical. Personally I haven't been since the late 80's.

My father had some good doctors way back when but I've had nothing but bullshit from them. I let my card lapse on purpose. Now only the dope heads are elegible for care. Connected are waiting a year or more to even get benefits.

It's sad that they use the VA for a rag head training center in our care.

Cthulhu
03-03-2014, 12:37 PM
If you want to feel like you are in a cattle yard and served by sands be my guest. Go get you some va medical. Personally I haven't been since the late 80's.

My father had some good doctors way back when but I've had nothing but bullshit from them. I let my card lapse on purpose. Now only the dope heads are elegible for care. Connected are waiting a year or more to even get benefits.

It's sad that they use the VA for a rag head training center in our care.

They also seem more concerned about how you feel about the government and psychological processes than they do about your health. Out of concern for 'others'.

I had to do some very eloquent verbal back flips after talking to a VA shrink regard how I felt - to keep from being hospitalized and put into the funny farm.

Never again will I disclose my feelings and thoughts to someone of the psychology profession. These people play god without all the variables and are all to willing to put you in a padded room. Helping you is not their priority. Getting your out of their office is.

Peter1469
03-03-2014, 12:41 PM
They also seem more concerned about how you feel about the government and psychological processes than they do about your health. Out of concern for 'others'.

I had to do some very eloquent verbal back flips after talking to a VA shrink regard how I felt - to keep from being hospitalized and put into the funny farm.

Never again will I disclose my feelings and thoughts to someone of the psychology profession. These people play god without all the variables and are all to willing to put you in a padded room. Helping you is not their priority. Getting your out of their office is.

I came to that conclusion as well. Although in private practice, their goal is to keep you and your money coming back.

If you answer everything honestly the system will cost you your job and land you in the funny farm.

Cthulhu
03-03-2014, 12:48 PM
I came to that conclusion as well. Although in private practice, their goal is to keep you and your money coming back.

Sad but also true. Both have perverse incentives to do what they do, meanwhile the patient does not heal. I've gotten more help from God, solitude, and my bishop than I have ever gotten from a shrink. Screw those guys. A worthless lot.



If you answer everything honestly the system will cost you your job and land you in the funny farm.

Hence the verbal back flips. You find out that you don't need them soon after wards. There are other, vastly superior options.

Max Rockatansky
03-03-2014, 02:21 PM
If you want to feel like you are in a cattle yard and served by sands be my guest. Go get you some va medical. Personally I haven't been since the late 80's.

My father had some good doctors way back when but I've had nothing but bullshit from them. I let my card lapse on purpose. Now only the dope heads are elegible for care. Connected are waiting a year or more to even get benefits.

It's sad that they use the VA for a rag head training center in our care.

I have no problem with it, but good to see you avoiding it.

Peter1469
03-03-2014, 02:40 PM
Walter Reed isn't technically a VA hospital, although it serves vets, I had to go there once for a specialty issue and saw the war wounded. I decided then to stick with private hospitals so as to not take up space.

Max Rockatansky
03-03-2014, 03:00 PM
Walter Reed isn't technically a VA hospital, although it serves vets, I had to go there once for a specialty issue and saw the war wounded. I decided then to stick with private hospitals so as to not take up space.

Agreed. My point is the treatment of vets is and was substandard at VA hospitals, Walter Reed and, I suspect, elsewhere. We already know there is a high percentage of vets among the homeless. This is most likely due to untreated mental issues. It took almost 20 years to get the DOD, VA and Congress to recognize Gulf War Syndrome which afflicts almost half of the 670,000+ Gulf War vets.

We're buying billion dollar aircraft yet neglecting the veterans. That has been a long trend and that trend continues.

http://nchv.org/index.php/news/media/background_and_statistics/

How many homeless veterans are there?
Although flawless counts are impossible to come by – the transient nature of homeless populations presents a major difficulty – the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) estimates (https://www.onecpd.info/resources/documents/AHAR-2013-Part1.pdf) that 57,849 veterans are homeless on any given night.

Approximately 12,700 veterans of Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF), Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) and Operation New Dawn (OND) were homeless in 2010. The number of young homeless veterans is increasing, but only constitutes 8.8% of the overall homeless veteran population.

Why are veterans homeless?
In addition to the complex set of factors influencing all homelessness – extreme shortage of affordable housing, livable income and access to health care – a large number of displaced and at-risk veterans live with lingering effects of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and substance abuse, which are compounded by a lack of family and social support networks. Additionally, military occupations and training are not always transferable to the civilian workforce, placing some veterans at a disadvantage when competing for employment.

Rebel Son
03-03-2014, 05:08 PM
I have no problem with it, but good to see you avoiding it.

I'm quite sure we are paying the rags to stay here and train on us. Then they move on to a practice charging us all, yes I'm avoiding it.

How many white people do you see at a clinic. I'm not racist here, by white I mean somebody who can speak English that you can understand. By that I mean a person who has grown up here, not an imported body we are supporting and training.

I live out of motels in my line of work. Every one is owned by the Patel's. Go check if you don't believe me. I'm tired of sands and immigrants taking our country from us day by day and supported by our bitch ass president who I don't believe is a US citizen to start with. Nobody signed up for this shit when we swore the oath.......................

Max Rockatansky
03-03-2014, 05:26 PM
.....I'm not racist here, by white I mean somebody who can speak English that you can understand. By that I mean a person who has grown up here, not an imported body we are supporting and training.....................

Yes, you are racist and, FYI, we're all imports except for Native Americans. Immigrants have been coming to this country for over 230 years and to this land for over 500 years.

As for why you might see more first generation immigrants in medical jobs, I'm guessing it's because the pay and hours suck.

Rebel Son
03-03-2014, 05:56 PM
Yes, you are racist and, FYI, we're all imports except for Native Americans. Immigrants have been coming to this country for over 230 years and to this land for over 500 years.

As for why you might see more first generation immigrants in medical jobs, I'm guessing it's because the pay and hours suck.

Well thank you, Native Americans were not native to the US. Check your facts Einstein, as for sands let them treat their own people, lord knows there are enough of them being blown up every day by nuts like you.

I don't need some sand freak putting his hands on me.......I'll pay for a doctor first, although some cant do that.

Max Rockatansky
03-03-2014, 07:25 PM
Well thank you, Native Americans were not native to the US.

They were the first humans, ergo they have first dibs. Same goes for all those with Euro-ancestry the White Supremacists are always hooting about as superior. We all came out of Africa.

Libhater
03-03-2014, 09:55 PM
They were the first humans, ergo they have first dibs. Same goes for all those with Euro-ancestry the White Supremacists are always hooting about as superior. We all came out of Africa.

Wow, so many inaccuracies from 3 short sentences. Injuns weren't the first human inhabitants of North America. America's Euro ancestry were anything
but supremacists. The things that came out of africa were AIDS, mongrels and an underdeveloped civilization of tribal factions.

Common
03-04-2014, 09:40 AM
The cost of VA healthcare has soared in leaps and bounds in the years since 911. We have a new generation of young vets that have GREAT needs all at todays costs.

I put in another post that my father got anything he wanted from the VA anytime he wanted it. Prescriptions for anything sent right to the house. Any test he asked for. It was a different time. 50 yrs ago on up till 911 healthcare was waaaaaaaay cheaper than it is today and we have created a whole new generation of you vets that need alot of medical help. Obama isnt the problem as no president would be the problem. The problem has become cost. The incredible costs.

The va needs to stop allowing non combat vets to enroll and should declare them ineligible. They should grade any combat vet that has not sustained severe combat related injuries that makes over a certain amount yearly pay in degrees of income for their VA health care.

We need to reserve VA health care for the men and women who had boots on the ground that dearly need health care for injuries sustained in combat and who are financially distressed.

They cant give those that need care the most the best of care when they paying billions for non combat individuals health care.

ernie
03-04-2014, 09:40 AM
I believe the only people that should work for the VA is veterans. Only then you would see some compassion. I believe to work with any part of the Government you should first be a veteran. The ONLY people who put their name on the line to give their life for their country.

ernie
03-04-2014, 09:42 AM
You can go to the VA in Jackson Ms. and see why the VA is in such a mess.

Akula
03-04-2014, 09:48 AM
They were the first humans, ergo they have first dibs.'

No. Incorrect.


Same goes for all those with Euro-ancestry the White Supremacists are always hooting about as superior.

Who specifically? Post a quote of someone "hooting"


We all came out of Africa.

Not really. Do more research.

Akula
03-04-2014, 09:52 AM
You can go to the VA in Jackson Ms. and see why the VA is in such a mess.

At least the militant, afro centrist, anti white mayor is gone.

Let's see who they elect this time.

Cthulhu
03-04-2014, 12:19 PM
I'm quite sure we are paying the rags to stay here and train on us. Then they move on to a practice charging us all, yes I'm avoiding it.

How many white people do you see at a clinic. I'm not racist here, by white I mean somebody who can speak English that you can understand. By that I mean a person who has grown up here, not an imported body we are supporting and training.

I live out of motels in my line of work. Every one is owned by the Patel's. Go check if you don't believe me. I'm tired of sands and immigrants taking our country from us day by day and supported by our bitch ass president who I don't believe is a US citizen to start with. Nobody signed up for this shit when we swore the oath.......................


Yes, you are racist and, FYI, we're all imports except for Native Americans. Immigrants have been coming to this country for over 230 years and to this land for over 500 years.

As for why you might see more first generation immigrants in medical jobs, I'm guessing it's because the pay and hours suck.


Well thank you, Native Americans were not native to the US. Check your facts Einstein, as for sands let them treat their own people, lord knows there are enough of them being blown up every day by nuts like you.

I don't need some sand freak putting his hands on me.......I'll pay for a doctor first, although some cant do that.


They were the first humans, ergo they have first dibs. Same goes for all those with Euro-ancestry the White Supremacists are always hooting about as superior. We all came out of Africa.


Wow, so many inaccuracies from 3 short sentences. Injuns weren't the first human inhabitants of North America. America's Euro ancestry were anything
but supremacists. The things that came out of africa were AIDS, mongrels and an underdeveloped civilization of tribal factions.


No. Incorrect.



Who specifically? Post a quote of someone "hooting"



Not really. Do more research.


At least the militant, afro centrist, anti white mayor is gone.

Let's see who they elect this time.

All of you, take please this crap to the HOLE, where it belongs.

The thread is about the VA, not the human race's origins and other garbage.

Max Rockatansky
03-04-2014, 12:35 PM
All of you, take please this crap to the HOLE, where it belongs.

The thread is about the VA, not the human race's origins and other garbage.

That's what you got out of that conversation? The human race's origins?

Maybe if more people saw this video, they'd be more supportive of a functional VA system:

http://www.sermonspice.com/product/32960/i-fought-for-you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgYLr_LfhLo

Cthulhu
03-04-2014, 12:39 PM
That's what you got out of that conversation? The human race's origins?

Maybe if more people saw this video, they'd be more supportive of a functional VA system:

http://www.sermonspice.com/product/32960/i-fought-for-you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgYLr_LfhLo

I would be all about privatizing it. Almost everything the government does badly can be improved by an innovative private sector.

Max Rockatansky
03-04-2014, 12:43 PM
I would be all about privatizing it. Almost everything the government does badly can be improved by an innovative private sector.

By your logic we should privatize the military, the mail and the justice system. Let a private company rule on whether your Constitutional rights have been violated or not, defend our country and deliver a birthday card to Grandma for 50˘.

Paperback Writer
03-04-2014, 12:45 PM
By your logic we should privatize the military, the mail and the justice system. Let a private company rule on whether your Constitutional rights have been violated or not, defend our country and deliver a birthday card to Grandma for 50˘.

I say give it to the CIA to run, you'd have endless money and no one would even know the lads still existed.

Cthulhu
03-04-2014, 12:50 PM
By your logic we should privatize the military, the mail and the justice system. Let a private company rule on whether your Constitutional rights have been violated or not, defend our country and deliver a birthday card to Grandma for 50˘.

Wow. You took that torch and ran with it in a field of tall dry grass.

Flame on.

Not what I said at all. But Fedex does a dandy job, as does UPS. And having military contractors does help ease the burden on marines in the field due to manpower shortage.

What you despise is what we currently do. But letting a corporation rule on my rights? That is just tripe and you know it.

I get it, you don't like libertarians and anarchists - that's fine. But they have been alienated by the system you champion, the left/right paradigm.

What you don't understand is that current technology is rendering it obsolete. All things have a dawn and a twilight. The US government and its major parties are currently in critical danger.

Max Rockatansky
03-04-2014, 01:12 PM
Wow. You took that torch and ran with it in a field of tall dry grass.

Fire is very cleansing.
http://www.netanimations.net/animated_bonfire_campfire_real.gif


Not what I said at all. But Fedex does a dandy job, as does UPS. And having military contractors does help ease the burden on marines in the field due to manpower shortage.

What you despise is what we currently do. But letting a corporation rule on my rights? That is just tripe and you know it.
It is tripe as is the meme about how much better privatization is over government. Much of the money wasted Iraq was paying Halliburton 30 bucks a meal to supply our troops with crap food. Privatizing prisons led to several scandals were people were wrongly sentenced to prison in order to fill cells for profit. I mentioned the justice system because the privatizing of jails was a first step. We saw the results yet some people still think privatizing several functions of government is better. It isn't.

Yes, government is inefficient compared to private business, but private business is focused on profit. In the business world, money is GOD. Is that who we really want running things? People who worship the Almighty Buck? Most of our government problems now are due to greed and too many close ties to special interests, most of which are well monied. Who has the most money? It's not Texas rednecks nor California tree-huggers. It's business. It's business which is why we still have problems with illegal immigration. They don't want to system to change. They like the status quo. Tort reform? Same answer. Medical reform? The current one is an abortion. Part dreamy-eyed liberal pie-in-the-sky but also part insurance racket. Is there any doubt the HMOs and insurance companies are feasting on this debacle?

Cthulhu
03-04-2014, 04:43 PM
Fire is very cleansing.
http://www.netanimations.net/animated_bonfire_campfire_real.gif


Than by all means, immolate yourself. I won't stop you.



It is tripe as is the meme about how much better privatization is over government. Much of the money wasted Iraq was paying Halliburton 30 bucks a meal to supply our troops with crap food. Privatizing prisons led to several scandals were people were wrongly sentenced to prison in order to fill cells for profit. I mentioned the justice system because the privatizing of jails was a first step. We saw the results yet some people still think privatizing several functions of government is better. It isn't.

In every instance privatization is not wise. In many instances it is. But also making sure that a monopoly is not maintained is also of importance. There is a reason only Halliburton, KBR and a select few others get in on this stuff - they own certain people in politics.



Yes, government is inefficient compared to private business, but private business is focused on profit. In the business world, money is GOD. Is that who we really want running things? People who worship the Almighty Buck?

Not everybody is a monster that 'eats-babies-for-profit' kind of business man. But the guys running the show currently sure act like it. Probably ought to reform said system eh? Let someone else have the reigns for a while.



Most of our government problems now are due to greed and too many close ties to special interests, most of which are well monied. Who has the most money? It's not Texas rednecks nor California tree-huggers. It's business. It's business which is why we still have problems with illegal immigration. They don't want to system to change. They like the status quo. Tort reform? Same answer. Medical reform? The current one is an abortion. Part dreamy-eyed liberal pie-in-the-sky but also part insurance racket. Is there any doubt the HMOs and insurance companies are feasting on this debacle?

Um...der. And I'm the guy who opposes the status quo, so why are you opposing the idea of privatizing VA benefits again?

Max Rockatansky
03-04-2014, 04:50 PM
Than by all means, immolate yourself. I won't stop you.
I'm not the immolation type.

Cthulhu
03-04-2014, 08:37 PM
I'm not the immolation type.

You gotta admit though, it would be one hell of a way to go. Talk about a blaze of glory.

Peter1469
03-04-2014, 08:48 PM
Not really. We had a captain do that in Korea, over a woman of all things...; he soaked himself in lighter fluid and set himself on fire. He ran down the halls of the barracks screaming - like he had a change of mind - dropping cooked pieces of himself along the way. It was disgusting.




You gotta admit though, it would be one hell of a way to go. Talk about a blaze of glory.

Max Rockatansky
03-04-2014, 08:51 PM
You gotta admit though, it would be one hell of a way to go. Talk about a blaze of glory.

If I did, it would be more along the lines of these guys:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26256048
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73205000/jpg/_73205988_624_kamikaze-pilot.jpg

I liked the ending of the article because it sums up my view on studying history:

"What often appears to be missing is that question: "How did we get here?""

Dr. Who
03-04-2014, 10:14 PM
No. Incorrect.



Who specifically? Post a quote of someone "hooting"



Not really. Do more research.

The earliest documented members of the genus Homo are Homo habilis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_habilis) which evolved around 2.3 (http://tools.wmflabs.org/timescale/?Ma=2.3) million years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_years_ago); the earliest species for which there is positive evidence of use of stone tools. The brains of these early hominins were about the same size as that of a chimpanzee, although it has been suggested that this was the time in which the human SRGAP2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGAP2) gene doubled, producing a more rapid wiring of the frontal cortex. During the next million years a process of encephalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalization) began, and with the arrival of Homo erectus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus) in the fossil record, cranial capacity had doubled to 850 cm3.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-4) Homo erectus and Homo ergaster were the first of the hominina to leave Africa, and these species spread through Africa, Asia, and Europe between 1.3 to 1.8 (http://tools.wmflabs.org/timescale/?Ma=1.3%E2%80%931.8) million years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_years_ago). This increase in human brain size is equivalent to every generation having an additional 125,000 neurons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuron) more than their parents. It is believed that these species were the first to use fire and complex tools. According to the Recent African Ancestry theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans), modern humans evolved in Africa possibly from Homo heidelbergensis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_heidelbergensis), Homo rhodesiensis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_rhodesiensis) or Homo antecessor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor) and migrated out of the continent some 50,000 to 100,000 years ago, replacing local populations of Homo erectus, Homo denisova (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_denisova), Homo floresiensis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis) and Homo neanderthalensis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_neanderthalensis).[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-encylopediahumanevolution-5)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-evolutionthe1st4billionyears-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-7)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-8)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-9)

Archaic Homo sapiens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaic_Homo_sapiens), the forerunner of anatomically modern humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomically_modern_humans), evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-10)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-11) Recent DNA evidence suggests that several haplotypes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplotype) of Neanderthal origin are present among all non-African populations, and Neanderthals and other hominids, such as Denisova hominin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_hominin) may have contributed up to 6% of their genome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genome) to present-day humans, suggestive of a limited inter-breeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-breeding) between these species.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-pmid21179161-12)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-pmid20439435-13)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-10.1126.2Fscience.1209202-14) Anatomically modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens in the Middle Paleolithic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic), about 200,000 years ago.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-15) The transition to behavioral modernity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity) with the development of symbolic culture, language, and specialized lithic technology happened around 50,000 years ago according to many anthropologists[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-16) although some suggest a gradual change in behavior over a longer time span.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

Max Rockatansky
03-05-2014, 08:51 AM
Thanks, Dr. Who. Obviously Akula is a YEC who believes God created white people in the Garden of Eden and all other races are sub-humans who weren't there. Oddly, such a belief skips over the idea of "original sin" since those other races, while sub-human in the eyes of the White Supremacists, didn't offend God by eating from the Tree of Knowledge.

Codename Section
03-05-2014, 08:52 AM
How did a thread on why we hate the VA turn into racist garbage? Don't we have 50 other threads for that?

Max Rockatansky
03-05-2014, 09:06 AM
How did a thread on why we hate the VA turn into racist garbage? Don't we have 50 other threads for that?

I think it's because it's because Stormfront forgot to pay their bill and the White Supremacists have no other place to spread their shit.

Codename Section
03-05-2014, 09:12 AM
I think it's because it's because Stormfront forgot to pay their bill and the White Supremacists have no other place to spread their shit.

I fucking hate military people who spout this shit since we literally share blood in war.

Max Rockatansky
03-05-2014, 09:21 AM
I fucking hate military people who spout this shit since we literally share blood in war.

Fortunately they are in a very, very small minority.

Libhater
03-05-2014, 10:46 AM
Fortunately they are in a very, very small minority.

Yeah, when I was out in the bush in the Nam 1971 we had 5 black guys in my platoon who were
the most racist bunch of yahoos I've ever met. It didn't matter that they segregated themselves
from the rest of us decent WHITE folk--the fact remains that they could have been sent by Malcom X
himself to disrupt the unity in our platoon. Racist pigs all!

Max Rockatansky
03-05-2014, 10:59 AM
Yeah, when I was out in the bush in the Nam 1971 we had 5 black guys in my platoon who were
the most racist bunch of yahoos I've ever met......

Thanks for your Vietnam flashback, but it's 2014. 1971 was 43 years ago, Lib. Two whole generations of Americans have been born and grown to adulthood since that war ended.

Times have changed even though you have not. You're being left behind, buddy.

Cthulhu
03-05-2014, 11:02 AM
Mods, please move this thread to the HOLE. I am abandoning it. The stupids have ruined it.

Akula
03-05-2014, 11:26 AM
The earliest documented members of the genus Homo are Homo habilis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_habilis) which evolved around 2.3 (http://tools.wmflabs.org/timescale/?Ma=2.3) million years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_years_ago); the earliest species for which there is positive evidence of use of stone tools. The brains of these early hominins were about the same size as that of a chimpanzee, although it has been suggested that this was the time in which the human SRGAP2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGAP2) gene doubled, producing a more rapid wiring of the frontal cortex. During the next million years a process of encephalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalization) began, and with the arrival of Homo erectus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus) in the fossil record, cranial capacity had doubled to 850 cm3.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-4) Homo erectus and Homo ergaster were the first of the hominina to leave Africa, and these species spread through Africa, Asia, and Europe between 1.3 to 1.8 (http://tools.wmflabs.org/timescale/?Ma=1.3%E2%80%931.8) million years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_years_ago). This increase in human brain size is equivalent to every generation having an additional 125,000 neurons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuron) more than their parents. It is believed that these species were the first to use fire and complex tools. According to the Recent African Ancestry theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans), modern humans evolved in Africa possibly from Homo heidelbergensis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_heidelbergensis), Homo rhodesiensis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_rhodesiensis) or Homo antecessor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor) and migrated out of the continent some 50,000 to 100,000 years ago, replacing local populations of Homo erectus, Homo denisova (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_denisova), Homo floresiensis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis) and Homo neanderthalensis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_neanderthalensis).[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-encylopediahumanevolution-5)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-evolutionthe1st4billionyears-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-7)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-8)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-9)

Archaic Homo sapiens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaic_Homo_sapiens), the forerunner of anatomically modern humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomically_modern_humans), evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-10)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-11) Recent DNA evidence suggests that several haplotypes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplotype) of Neanderthal origin are present among all non-African populations, and Neanderthals and other hominids, such as Denisova hominin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_hominin) may have contributed up to 6% of their genome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genome) to present-day humans, suggestive of a limited inter-breeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-breeding) between these species.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-pmid21179161-12)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-pmid20439435-13)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-10.1126.2Fscience.1209202-14) Anatomically modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens in the Middle Paleolithic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic), about 200,000 years ago.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-15) The transition to behavioral modernity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity) with the development of symbolic culture, language, and specialized lithic technology happened around 50,000 years ago according to many anthropologists[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#cite_note-16) although some suggest a gradual change in behavior over a longer time span.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

Right..go tell the russians they all originated in africa...go tell the chinese they are africans, too...LMAO..

Out of africa debunked;

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=19566

Seven thousand five hundred fifty-six (7556) haplotypes of 46 subclades in 17 major haplogroups were considered in terms of their base (ancestral) haplotypes and timespans to their common ancestors, for the purposes of designing of time-balanced haplogroup tree.

It was found that African haplogroup A (originated 132,000 ± 12,000 years before present) is very remote time-wise from all other haplogroups, which have a separate common ancestor, named β-haplogroup, and originated 64,000 ± 6000 ybp. It includes a family of Europeoid (Caucasoid) haplogroups from F through T that originated 58,000 ± 5000 ybp.

A downstream common ancestor for haplogroup A and β-haplogroup, coined the α-haplogroup emerged 160,000 ± 12,000 ybp.

A territorial origin of haplogroups α- and β-remains unknown; however, the most likely origin for each of them is a vast triangle stretched from Central Europe in the west through the Russian Plain to the east and to Levant to the south. Haplogroup B is descended from β-haplogroup (and not from haplogroup A, from which it is very distant, and separated by as much as 123,000 years of “lateral” mutational evolution) likely migrated to Africa after 46,000 ybp.

The finding that the Europeoid haplogroups did not descend from “African” haplogroups A or B is supported by the fact that bearers of the Europeoid haplogroups, as well as all non-African haplogroups do not carry either SNPs M91, P97, M31, P82, M23, M114, P262, M32, M59, P289, P291, P102, M13, M171, M118 (haplogroup A and its subclades SNPs) or M60, M181, P90 (haplogroup B), as it was shown recently in “Walk through Y” FTDNA Project (the reference is incorporated therein) on several hundred people from various haplogroups.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQgcqtBICAU
The Chinese Academy of Science in Peking


“Out of Africa” is a theory put forth not by actual scientists but by left-wing liberal arts professors. The theory is not based on any scientific evidence, but on social and political dogma.
Already the human genome project as well as the Neanderthal genome project have shattered the politically motivated “Out of Africa” myth.

The projects have discovered differences between the genetic makeup of modern man along racial lines. Modern homo sapien races did not evolve from a single ancestor.

In the case of Caucasians, genes originating with the Neanderthals are present. Neanderthal genes are also found, but to a lesser extent in Asians, but are completely absent in the Negro race.

This is quite significant as experts widely recognize the Neanderthal as the most advanced pre-homo sapiens.


An archaeological find in China shows strong evidence of parallel human evolution with multiple, different ancestors.
An anatomically modern human jawbone was found deep in the earth and comes from a time period in which such humans were only supposed to have existed in Africa.

Captain Obvious
03-05-2014, 11:59 AM
Telling a racist white supremest that life originated in Africa is like telling a Christian whacko that life originated via evolution.

They will use every resource available to deny it because they're hardwired to disbelieve anything else.

Akula
03-05-2014, 12:22 PM
Telling a racist white supremest that life originated in Africa is like telling a Christian whacko that life originated via evolution.

They will use every resource available to deny it because they're hardwired to disbelieve anything else.

Yes..just look at all these racist white "supremest" (sic) with their "racist" and "supremest" (sic) evidence, citations and valid scientific study.
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=19566


http://english.pku.edu.cn/


but pay them no mind...they're "racists"....LMAO...and don't even ATTEMPT to debunk or refute anything. Ever.

Just throw in the obligatory "racist" and "white "supremest" (sic) and another random insult or two like"whacko", and depart while imagining/pretending you've actually said something intelligent. Pretty standard stuff when you don't have a leg to stand on. :rollseyes:

Max Rockatansky
03-05-2014, 02:41 PM
It was found that African haplogroup A (originated 132,000 ± 12,000 years before present) is very remote time-wise from all other haplogroups, which have a separate common ancestor, named β-haplogroup, and originated 64,000 ± 6000 ybp. It includes a family of Europeoid (Caucasoid) haplogroups from F through T that originated 58,000 ± 5000 ybp.

A downstream common ancestor for haplogroup A and β-haplogroup, coined the α-haplogroup emerged 160,000 ± 12,000 ybp.

Nice find, Akula, and a nice first attempt. Now, if you studied evolution even more you'd find that Homo Sapiens evolved around 200,000 years ago. We have a common ancestor in Africa even if the majority peoples of Africa, the Europeans and the Asians later branched off to minor differences albeit all still considered Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
All people today are classified as Homo sapiens. Our species of humans first began to evolve nearly 200,000 years ago in association with technologies not unlike those of the early Neandertals. It is now clear that early Homo sapiens, or modern humans, did not come after the Neandertals but were their contemporaries. However, it is likely that both modern humans and Neandertals descended from Homo heidelbergensis.


Compared to the Neandertals and other late archaic humans, modern humans generally have more delicate skeletons. Their skulls are more rounded and their brow ridges generally protrude much less. They rarely have the occipital buns found on the back of Neandertal skulls. They also have relatively high foreheads, smaller faces, and pointed chins.

.....Current data suggest that modern humans evolved from archaic humans primarily in East Africa. A 195,000 year old fossil from the Omo 1 site in Ethiopia shows the beginnings of the skull changes that we associate with modern people, including a rounded skull case and possibly a projecting chin.

Max Rockatansky
03-05-2014, 02:42 PM
Telling a racist white supremest that life originated in Africa is like telling a Christian whacko that life originated via evolution.

They will use every resource available to deny it because they're hardwired to disbelieve anything else.Agreed, but it's fun to watch them dance around the truth. A truth they do not want to admit or to see.

Cthulhu
03-05-2014, 07:11 PM
Mods, please move this thread to the HOLE. I am abandoning it. The stupids have ruined it.

^^^
Peter1469

Max Rockatansky
03-05-2014, 07:14 PM
Chill, Marine. Yes, your thread was side-tracked by racists, but why the urgency to shove it in the hole? Wouldn't it be better to be more positive and start another thread on the subject?

Cthulhu
03-05-2014, 07:29 PM
Chill, Marine. Yes, your thread was side-tracked by racists, but why the urgency to shove it in the hole? Wouldn't it be better to be more positive and start another thread on the subject?

Given what happened to it, the Hole is where it belongs. So as you will with it.

Max Rockatansky
03-05-2014, 07:41 PM
Given what happened to it, the Hole is where it belongs. So as you will with it.

Perhaps, but I think racists, like vampires, lawyers and other bloodsuckers should be dragged out of their holes and into the bright sunlight to be purified by the Sun.

http://media3.giphy.com/media/Gm25tEhw64Hsc/200.gif

Dr. Who
03-05-2014, 11:09 PM
Right..go tell the russians they all originated in africa...go tell the chinese they are africans, too...LMAO..

Out of africa debunked;

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=19566

Seven thousand five hundred fifty-six (7556) haplotypes of 46 subclades in 17 major haplogroups were considered in terms of their base (ancestral) haplotypes and timespans to their common ancestors, for the purposes of designing of time-balanced haplogroup tree.

It was found that African haplogroup A (originated 132,000 ± 12,000 years before present) is very remote time-wise from all other haplogroups, which have a separate common ancestor, named β-haplogroup, and originated 64,000 ± 6000 ybp. It includes a family of Europeoid (Caucasoid) haplogroups from F through T that originated 58,000 ± 5000 ybp.

A downstream common ancestor for haplogroup A and β-haplogroup, coined the α-haplogroup emerged 160,000 ± 12,000 ybp.

A territorial origin of haplogroups α- and β-remains unknown; however, the most likely origin for each of them is a vast triangle stretched from Central Europe in the west through the Russian Plain to the east and to Levant to the south. Haplogroup B is descended from β-haplogroup (and not from haplogroup A, from which it is very distant, and separated by as much as 123,000 years of “lateral” mutational evolution) likely migrated to Africa after 46,000 ybp.

The finding that the Europeoid haplogroups did not descend from “African” haplogroups A or B is supported by the fact that bearers of the Europeoid haplogroups, as well as all non-African haplogroups do not carry either SNPs M91, P97, M31, P82, M23, M114, P262, M32, M59, P289, P291, P102, M13, M171, M118 (haplogroup A and its subclades SNPs) or M60, M181, P90 (haplogroup B), as it was shown recently in “Walk through Y” FTDNA Project (the reference is incorporated therein) on several hundred people from various haplogroups.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQgcqtBICAU
The Chinese Academy of Science in Peking


“Out of Africa” is a theory put forth not by actual scientists but by left-wing liberal arts professors. The theory is not based on any scientific evidence, but on social and political dogma.
Already the human genome project as well as the Neanderthal genome project have shattered the politically motivated “Out of Africa” myth.

The projects have discovered differences between the genetic makeup of modern man along racial lines. Modern homo sapien races did not evolve from a single ancestor.

In the case of Caucasians, genes originating with the Neanderthals are present. Neanderthal genes are also found, but to a lesser extent in Asians, but are completely absent in the Negro race.

This is quite significant as experts widely recognize the Neanderthal as the most advanced pre-homo sapiens.


An archaeological find in China shows strong evidence of parallel human evolution with multiple, different ancestors.
An anatomically modern human jawbone was found deep in the earth and comes from a time period in which such humans were only supposed to have existed in Africa.
Consider this, if we do not have a common denominator, why can we interbreed and further if that common denominator is not genetically dominant, how is it that children of such mixtures are not infertile?

Rebel Son
03-09-2014, 10:29 AM
Agreed, but it's fun to watch them dance around the truth. A truth they do not want to admit or to see.

The truth was as I said, exactly why does our VA have so many people from other countries working there that we can't even understand, when in fact it was a question as to why we don't have Americans working in American institutions.
You ran with it as a racist comment
Don't act like you had nothing to do with it. It's fun to stir the pot after you embellish it I guess.

waltky
03-23-2016, 10:45 PM
More shenanigans at the VA...
:rollseyes:
VA Suspends Top Official in Relocation Scam
Mar 23, 2016 | WASHINGTON -- The Department of Veterans Affairs is suspending the head of the Veterans Benefits Administration for allowing two lower-ranking officials to manipulate the agency's hiring system for their own gain.


Deputy VA Secretary Sloan Gibson says acting VBA chief Danny Pummill will be suspended without pay for 15 days for his role in a relocation scam that has roiled the agency for months. Pummill failed to exercise proper oversight as Kimberly Graves and Diana Rubens forced lower-ranking managers to accept job transfers and then stepped into the vacant positions themselves, keeping their senior-level pay while reducing their responsibilities, Gibson said Tuesday. Pummill is one of VA's five highest-ranking officials and leads VBA's employees across 56 regional offices nationwide that provide compensation and pension benefits, life insurance, home loans and other services to millions of veterans.


http://images.military.com/media/people/danny-pummill-804-ts600.jpg

Under VA rules, Pummill can appeal his suspension to an independent arbiter. Pummill was the VBA's deputy chief when Rubens and Graves implemented the job relocations, which put both of them closer to their families. Pummill replaced former VBA chief Allison Hickey, who retired as allegations against Rubens and Graves were made public. Rubens earns $181,497 as director of the VBA's Philadelphia regional office, while Graves receives $173,949 as head of the St. Paul, Minnesota, benefits office. Graves and Rubens were reprimanded Tuesday and had their pay cut by 10 percent. The two women were reinstated to their positions last month after administrative judges overturned their demotions.

The judges based their rulings, in part, on the fact that more senior officials such as Pummill had not been disciplined in the case. In a related action, the VA said it has reprimanded Beth McCoy, director of field operations for the VBA. Gibson said McCoy did not exercise proper judgment in taking over for Rubens as heads of field operations. Gibson said the disciplinary actions were in the best interests of veterans and taxpayers. "Ultimately, that is what these decisions are about: getting back to the work of serving America's veterans," he said.


http://images.military.com/media/people/rubens-and-graves-600x400.jpg

Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Florida, chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee, called the actions "a weak slap on the wrist." Accountability at the VA "is almost non-existent," Miller said. "One thing is clear: this dysfunctional status quo will never change until we eliminate arcane civil service rules that put the job security of VA bureaucrats ahead of the veterans they are charged with serving."

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/03/23/va-suspends-top-official-in-relocation-scam.html

See also:

Lawmaker Questions Why VA Reinstated Employee Linked to Armed Robbery
Mar 23, 2016 | A House lawmaker is demanding answers from the Veterans Affairs Department over how an employee fired after being convicted of charges related to a 2015 armed robbery could win her job back.


Rep. Jeff Miller, a Republican from Florida and chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee, also wants to know if Elizabeth Rivera's termination from the VA hospital in San Juan, Puerto Rico, was challenged "by the fact that the HR [Human Resources] manager responsible [for] imposing her discipline, Mr. Tito Santiago Martinez, is a convicted sex offender." In a March 22 letter to VA Secretary Bob McDonald, Miller said, "The union allegedly asserted that Ms. Rivera should be reinstated in her job since Mr. Santiago was also convicted of a crime and therefore cannot discipline other employees who have been convicted of crimes."

Miller sent the letter the same day The Daily Caller reported that Rivera was arrested in connection with an armed robbery last year. According to a June 16 online report on the San Juan news site Metro, Rivera was in a car with Rolando River Febus when Febus stepped out of the vehicle armed with a gun and attempted to rob a couple. Local police spotted the incident and Febus fled on foot, leaving Rivera in the car. Although initially charged with armed robbery, she ultimately pled guilty to two misdemeanor charges, according to the Caller report, which did not detail the charges.

Miller said he wants to know exactly why her firing was overturned, who made the call and what role Martinez played. He also wants to know if media reports are accurate in claiming Rivera wore a GPS ankle monitor when she first went back to work, if she was given back-pay for the time she missed while in jail or after she was fired; why she wasn't fired for missing work while in jail; and why someone awaiting trial for armed robbery was assigned to the office responsible for security at the hospital.

MORE (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/03/23/lawmaker-questions-va-reinstated-employee-linked-armed-robbery.html)