Scipio Africanus: Rome's Greatest General

[Green Arrow]

I've been studying the Roman military lately, and Scipio Africanus has always fascinated me. Problem is, I don't know which books about him are trustworthy.

Any fellow history buffs know of a good Scipio Africanus read? Particularly my fellow Romephiles, Mister D and Peter1469.

[Mister D]

Never read a biography of any ancient figure. Peter has. I know he read some stuff about Julius Caesar. Now the Republican army is another story.

Honestly, I often read the reviews in Amazon.

[Green Arrow]

Never read a biography of any ancient figure. Peter has. I know he read some stuff about Julius Caesar. Now the Republican army is another story.

Honestly, I often read the reviews in Amazon.

I found a book that is selections from Livy about Scipio Africanus on Amazon, so I put it on my Wishlist. I can trust Livy. I also found one by B.H. Liddell Hart, published in 1929 (and then re-published in 2004).

Oh, I also found a couple you may be interested in, about the Roman army as a whole, rather than specific individuals.

[Mister D]

I found a book that is selections from Livy about Scipio Africanus on Amazon, so I put it on my Wishlist. I can trust Livy. I also found one by B.H. Liddell Hart, published in 1929 (and then re-published in 2004).

Oh, I also found a couple you may be interested in, about the Roman army as a whole, rather than specific individuals.

I like Adrian Goldsworthy. His books on the Roman military are great.

[Peter1469]

Livy is good. Then read others using Livy as a baseline.

[Green Arrow]

I like Adrian Goldsworthy. His books on the Roman military are great.

I've heard of Goldsworthy. Historians I trust have recommended him to me.

Have you ever read Vegetius's book, On Roman Military Matters​?

[Green Arrow]

Livy is good. Then read others using Livy as a baseline.

You mean, compare the facts in other books to Livy's writings to see if they match?

[Peter1469]

You mean, compare the facts in other books to Livy's writings to see if they match?

Yes.

[Green Arrow]

Yes.

That's what I generally try to do. My friends used to poke fun at me because I'd be sitting in the library with two different books open, searching through one (the more reputable one) to make sure the facts in the other were correct :tongue:

Of course, I was the one laughing when I got the best grades in history class ;)

[Peter1469]

I graduated top in my major (poli sci) and minor (history) by doing stuff like that.


That's what I generally try to do. My friends used to poke fun at me because I'd be sitting in the library with two different books open, searching through one (the more reputable one) to make sure the facts in the other were correct :tongue:

Of course, I was the one laughing when I got the best grades in history class ;)

[Newpublius]

I took Latin from the 7th-12th grades. I actually won a Latin poetry recitation contest (Catullus). I had to read the Gallic Wars IN LATIN.....hehe....

Best Roman general in my mind is Caesar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia

Are you KIDDING ME?

Don't get me wrong, he was a bloodthirsty lunatic, but tactically that battle is something else...

[Peter1469]

I took Latin from the 7th-12th grades. I actually won a Latin poetry recitation contest (Catullus). I had to read the Gallic Wars IN LATIN.....hehe....

Best Roman general in my mind is Caesar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia

Are you KIDDING ME?

Don't get me wrong, he was a bloodthirsty lunatic, but tactically that battle is something else...

Have you read Caesar's Commentaries?

[sotmfs]

That's what I generally try to do. My friends used to poke fun at me because I'd be sitting in the library with two different books open, searching through one (the more reputable one) to make sure the facts in the other were correct :tongue:

Of course, I was the one laughing when I got the best grades in history class ;)
As I told My Children ,learn about the author,and read more than one source.

[Green Arrow]

I took Latin from the 7th-12th grades. I actually won a Latin poetry recitation contest (Catullus). I had to read the Gallic Wars IN LATIN.....hehe....

Best Roman general in my mind is Caesar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia

Are you KIDDING ME?

Don't get me wrong, he was a bloodthirsty lunatic, but tactically that battle is something else...

No question that Caesar was the best, he just gets left out because it wouldn't be fair :tongue:

[Germanicus]

I wonder why you people pretend to be so stupid.

I disagree that Africanus was the greatest Roman General. I like him though. Spain and Africa. I would agree that the conquests of Africanus were probably the most important for the Roman Empire but I prefer Germanicus. He was defeating Germans. Not soft Spaniards and Africans. (: I know he didnt achieve so much but I think he was better and more impressive. Germanicus never had the chance to realize his potential.

How about the meeting/conversation between Hannibal and Africanus? that has got to be one of the coolest bits of history right?


"Africanus asked who, in Hannibal's opinion, was the greatest general of all time. Hannibal replied: 'Alexander, King of the Macedonians, because with a small force he routed armies of countless numbers, and because he traversed the remotest lands. Merely to visit such lands transcended human expectation.' Asked whom he would place second, Hannibal said: 'Pyrrhus. He was the first to teach the art of laying out a camp. Besides that, no one has ever shown nicer judgement in choosing his ground, or in disposing his forces. He also had the art of winning men to his side; so that the Italian peoples preferred the overlordship of a foreign king to that of the Roman people, who for so long had been the chief power in that country.' When Africanus followed up by asking whom he ranked third, Hannibal unhesitatingly chose himself. Scipio burst out laughing at this, and said: 'What would you have said if you had defeated me?' 'In that case', replied Hannibal, 'I should certainly put myself before Alexander and before Pyrrhus - in fact, before all other generals!' This reply, with its elaborate Punic subtlety, and this unexpected kind of flattery...affected Scipio deeply, because Hannibal had set him (Scipio) apart from the general run of commanders, as one whose worth was beyond calculation.
Livy, The History of Rome from its Foundation XXXV.14"
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1848

I like Hannibal more than Africanus.

edit- i have a soft spot for Germanicus. I kind of agree with New Publius. Caesar was amazing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H89dwpVckQ

edit- another two Roman Generals that I like are Agrippa and Sparticus.

[Peter1469]

Hannibal was a great field general, but he had no long term strategic vision.


I wonder why you people pretend to be so stupid.

I disagree that Africanus was the greatest Roman General. I like him though. Spain and Africa. I would agree that the conquests of Africanus were probably the most important for the Roman Empire but I prefer Germanicus. He was defeating Germans. Not soft Spaniards and Africans. (: I know he didnt achieve so much but I think he was better and more impressive. Germanicus never had the chance to realize his potential.

How about the meeting/conversation between Hannibal and Africanus? that has got to be one of the coolest bits of history right?


http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1848

I like Hannibal more than Africanus.

[Green Arrow]

Hannibal was a great field general, but he had no long term strategic vision.

Which is why he ultimately fell to Africanus, imo. What Hannibal lacked in long term strategic vision, Africanus had in spades.

[Newpublius]

Have you read Caesar's Commentaries?

Yes, in English I just imprecisely refer to them as the Gallic Wars

As for Hannibal, Cannae, stuff of legend of course, generals have been looking to repeat it ever since. I actually have no problem with Hannibal's strategic vision, he took an army, marched it into the heart of his enemy. Marched up and down Italy! forced them to adopt a painful scorched earth policy and essentially wound up losing....but let's face it, a lesser opponent would've given up.

In my opinion, I don't see how Carthage could've really done more......

[Bob]

This topic brings me full circle. When I first subscribed to an internet service, I selected AOL

My first forum on AOL was about the great commanders.

Those people really understood the topic and taught me a lot.

I wonder if that forum vanished from AOL?

[Germanicus]

Hannibal was a great field general, but he had no long term strategic vision.

I guess. Carthage had no real long term strategic vision though. Hannibal was backed up by a merchant nation of cowards. That were stupid. That were so stupid they thought that they could get away with stiffing their mercs. ( Carthage makes me think of modern USA. A dishonourable merchant nation (: ) Merchant nation. I am glad the Romans burnt Carthage to the ground.

Im not sure it should be the responsibility of a General to have a long term strategic vision. But I know what you mean and agree I guess.

edit- A guy like Caesar was always much more than a General. And I guess Scipio was similar in ways hey. Very independent.. I suppose Hannibal too, maybe more so. So yeah I guess you are right. I still like Hannibal more. And I really like Scipio Africanus.

edit- Another significant military figure, and great Roman General was Plebeian Gaius Marius. I like him too.

Marius, Caesar, Germanicus. Im a Julius man. Best Roman family. Best Roman blood.

[Alyosha]

I took Latin from the 7th-12th grades. I actually won a Latin poetry recitation contest (Catullus). I had to read the Gallic Wars IN LATIN.....hehe....

Best Roman general in my mind is Caesar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia

Are you KIDDING ME?

Don't get me wrong, he was a bloodthirsty lunatic, but tactically that battle is something else...


I agree with all of that, only I took Latin longer and taught it during law school. Sorry, had to be nerdy. Caesar was not only brilliant in battle but also he was giant among men.