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Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 05:33 AM
via Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/bill-maher-rand-paul-104693.html):


Liberal comic Bill Maher praised Sen. Rand Paul following his straw poll victory at CPAC, saying the Kentucky Republican could give Hillary Clinton "a run for her money," if both run in 2016.

Maher, during his HBO program "Real Time with Bill Maher" on Friday, said that while most of the Republican lawmakers at CPAC called for action in Crimea, Paul is "the one guy who says quite the opposite, like his father, he is for not for having an American empire. That's the thing I love about the Pauls."


Agreeing with Maher, blogger Andrew Sullivan commended the ability that Paul, who won over 30 percent of the CPAC straw poll vote last week, has in delivering his message.

"I think Rand Paul's attempt to say what most people in this country really understand, which is we don't need to run the world. We don't want to run the world. America would be in a better place if we were less interested in our own power, and more interested in freedom," Sullivan said.


"He could give Hillary a run for her money," Maher added.


Author Salman Rushdie said if the two ran against each other, Paul could attract the "youth wing of the GOP" comparing it to the appeal President Barack Obama had during his 2008 campaign.


"If he can break into that, then he's got a chance," Rushdie said.

Sullivan echoed Rushdie, adding if Clinton were to run against Paul, "She'll come off like a neocon, because in fact, she is a bit of a neocon."


Author Amy Chua said Paul is "so independent-minded," which attracts a lot of support.


"I think, Hillary Clinton, you feel like it's just going to fit into certain familiar things," Chua said. "And he's just a little unpredictable, you know, he doesn't care what people think and that's appealing to a lot of people."

Freedom is sexy.

Germanicus
03-16-2014, 05:50 AM
Rand Paul encouraged Ukrainian teenagers to commit terrorist acts on Russian oil pipelines recently. Russia would have seen that too. He is a fraud like his father.

And the Maher guy is a terrible person and a jerk. A capitalist propagandist that has a huge interest in maintaining the American Empire that is currently falling away.

Hillary Clinton is pure evil. China hate Hillary Clinton more than any other American.

USA will need to do better than Rand Paul. And USA needs to be genuine instead of trying to fool people.



Maher, during his HBO program "Real Time with Bill Maher" on Friday, said that while most of the Republican lawmakers at CPAC called for action in Crimea, Paul is "the one guy who says quite the opposite, like his father, he is for not for having an American empire. That's the thing I love about the Pauls."

What exactly does that mean? Anything short of true deAmericanization is not enough. USA needs to give up the Reserve Status and stop printing money.


"I think Rand Paul's attempt to say what most people in this country really understand, which is we don't need to run the world. We don't want to run the world. America would be in a better place if we were less interested in our own power, and more interested in freedom," Sullivan said.

How will USA function without the reserve Status? To maintain the Reserve Status USA must continue to control the world. This is why the CIA overhtrew the government of Ukraine and why Rand Paul is encouraging terrorism.

A bunch of liars. They are not fooling many.

Germanicus
03-16-2014, 05:52 AM
Why would Rand Paul encourage terrorism in the Ukraine if he is not interested in Empire? Freedom? Yeah right.

And he sued Obama did he? (: America is becoming ridiculous.

These people must believe the public to be beyond stupid. Do they seem fooled in Crimea? They dont to me.

# Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine. He breaks character a heap. He is a clown.

Russia will remember that Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine. China will remember that Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine.

And so will I. Why is Rand Paul encouraging teenagers in the Ukraine to commit terrorist acts? Freedom?

Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine.

edit- And Rand Paul is sexy? He looks like a weasel to me. A limp wristed weasel. No wonder maher likes him so much. They are very similar.

Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine. We all saw it. As if Russia and China are not watching him. The clown should not be encouraging terrorism in other nations. He is a fraud.


edit- Can you imagine what US media would say if a Russian politician encouraged teenagers in the US to commit terrorist acts for any reason?

Its not cool. Yeah whatever, you are America and you go on about 'freedom' but does that give Americans the right to encourage a Ukrainian teen to commit a terrorist act? Of course not. USA is not special. And if Russia put sanctions on USA, and its coming, and it wont just be Russia, it will be China and god knows who else, then will USA encourage terrorism? Why does USA think they can get away with this stuff? Who does Rand Paul think he is?

Did Cuba send or encourage terrorists in USA for sanctions? Did North Korea? No. USA is ridiculous. Did Iran? No. And USA has no moral high ground at all. USA can no longer get away with this stuff.

Crimea. USA should think about what has happened and just stop. Its clear USA knows what needs to be done but still thinks it can fool everyone. The informal empire is on its last legs. USA should be preparing for a huge reduction in wealth and power. For the end of Empire. It is near.

zelmo1234
03-16-2014, 06:10 AM
Why would Rand Paul encourage terrorism in the Ukraine if he is not interested in Empire? Freedom? Yeah right.

And he sued Obama did he? (: America is becoming ridiculous.

These people must believe the public to be beyond stupid. Do they seem fooled in Crimea? They dont to me.

# Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine. He breaks character a heap. He is a clown.

Russia will remember that Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine. China will remember that Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine.

And so will I. Why is Rand Paul encouraging teenagers in the Ukraine to commit terrorist acts? Freedom?

Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine.

edit- And Rand Paul is sexy? He looks like a weasel to me. A limp wristed weasel. No wonder maher likes him so much. They are very similar.

Rand Paul encouraged terrorism in the Ukraine. We all saw it. As if Russia and China are not watching him. The clown should not be encouraging terrorism in other nations. He is a fraud.

First I am gong to need a link to Mr. Paul's encouraging terrorism in Ukraine? I think that might be bull shit

Second, Russia and China will love Mr. Paul, because he is an isolationist, the thing I really don't like about him.

Now China might have an issue because of this as he might just level the playing field on imports from China, causing the economy in China to collapse, and likely civil war.

As for you, china and Russia remembering that he encouraged terrorism? SO? actually you and China have just about the same ability to do anything about it? which is nothing! Russia will make lots of noise but they really don't want that missile defense shield going up on there boarders, or the USA providing Nuc technology to what is left of the Ukraine or Poland.

So they are not going to say shit either!

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 06:15 AM
First I am gong to need a link to Mr. Paul's encouraging terrorism in Ukraine? I think that might be bull shit

Second, Russia and China will love Mr. Paul, because he is an isolationist, the thing I really don't like about him.

Now China might have an issue because of this as he might just level the playing field on imports from China, causing the economy in China to collapse, and likely civil war.

As for you, china and Russia remembering that he encouraged terrorism? SO? actually you and China have just about the same ability to do anything about it? which is nothing! Russia will make lots of noise but they really don't want that missile defense shield going up on there boarders, or the USA providing Nuc technology to what is left of the Ukraine or Poland.

So they are not going to say shit either!

Rand Paul is a non-interventionist, not an isolationist.

zelmo1234
03-16-2014, 06:20 AM
Rand Paul is a non-interventionist, not an isolationist.

A play on words to me, don't get me wrong, I think he would be a good President, unfortunately, he might be the President that leads to the next real world conflict. however truth be told it might be just what the world needs!

Gerrard Winstanley
03-16-2014, 06:21 AM
A play on words to me, don't get me wrong, I think he would be a good President, unfortunately, he might be the President that leads to the next real world conflict. however truth be told it might be just what the world needs!
The prospect of an apocalyptic world conflict has been virtually negated by free trade and diplomatic initiatives.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 06:27 AM
A play on words to me, don't get me wrong, I think he would be a good President, unfortunately, he might be the President that leads to the next real world conflict. however truth be told it might be just what the world needs!

It's not a play on words, non-interventionism and isolationism are two completely different philosophies. Both the dictionary and the encyclopedia confirm this.

zelmo1234
03-16-2014, 06:28 AM
The prospect of an apocalyptic world conflict has been virtually negated by free trade and diplomatic initiatives.

That is what they said after WWI, but when expansion is sought by a country and the persons leading that country have no regard for others or boarders they tend to gather allies, and make enemies. And that sets up conflict


It is estimated that if there were to be another real global conflict that the world would loos about a third of it's population" and that might not be such a bas thing in the long run!

Gerrard Winstanley
03-16-2014, 06:37 AM
That is what they said after WWI, but when expansion is sought by a country and the persons leading that country have no regard for others or boarders they tend to gather allies, and make enemies. And that sets up conflict
The projections made prior to WWI were premature. Put simply, people were yet to be exposed to conflict on as catastrophic a scale as was witnessed in the 20th Century. Europe was a melting pot of ethnic and ideological tensions set to explode. The Internet and globalized capitalism hadn't emerged to string together a coherent world narrative. Things are radically different now.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 06:40 AM
That is what they said after WWI, but when expansion is sought by a country and the persons leading that country have no regard for others or boarders they tend to gather allies, and make enemies. And that sets up conflict


It is estimated that if there were to be another real global conflict that the world would loos about a third of it's population" and that might not be such a bas thing in the long run!

Sure, you could believe that, if you believe time never changes. Fortunately, history shows that times are constantly changing. 2014 is nothing like 1914, and trying to pretend it is will only serve to cause the world more harm than you think we may suffer.

1751_Texan
03-16-2014, 07:22 AM
It's not a play on words, non-interventionism and isolationism are two completely different philosophies. Both the dictionary and the encyclopedia confirm this.

Just as the head and the handle of a hammer are separate and different items...both work to drive the nail.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 07:24 AM
Just as the head and the handle of a hammer are separate and different items...both work to drive the nail.

Are you suggesting that non-interventionism is a destructive and dangerous policy?


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Max Rockatansky
03-16-2014, 07:38 AM
Second, Russia and China will love Mr. Paul, because he is an isolationist, the thing I really don't like about him.

Agreed, but I think that is more of a Libertarian Party platform ideal. If elected, I think, like President's before him, he'd be given a fuller understanding of the global situation, the consequences of isolationism and that he'd do the right thing.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 07:41 AM
Agreed, but I think that is more of a Libertarian Party platform ideal. If elected, I think, like President's before him, he'd be given a fuller understanding of the global situation, the consequences of isolationism and that he'd do the right thing.

Considering he and his father are not isolationists, I believe they already understand the consequences of isolationism.


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Max Rockatansky
03-16-2014, 07:43 AM
Just as the head and the handle of a hammer are separate and different items...both work to drive the nail.
Agreed. IOW, both actions and inactions have consequences. There is little difference between the results of isoationism and "non-interventionism" just like there is little difference in the results between the KKK changing their tune overt racism against blacks to claiming they are only supporting "white pride".

zelmo1234
03-16-2014, 07:44 AM
It's not a play on words, non-interventionism and isolationism are two completely different philosophies. Both the dictionary and the encyclopedia confirm this.

Both allow evil to go unchecked and grow!

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 07:45 AM
Both allow evil to go unchecked and grow!

How does non-interventionism do this?

zelmo1234
03-16-2014, 07:48 AM
Sure, you could believe that, if you believe time never changes. Fortunately, history shows that times are constantly changing. 2014 is nothing like 1914, and trying to pretend it is will only serve to cause the world more harm than you think we may suffer.

The more things change the more they stay the same. If I was to tell you that an army invaded a country, that had a lot of it's ethnic people living in it, and that the world did little to stop this, would you say that it was up to the people of that country?

Would you say that it is a good thing that the world did not act?

What If I told you it was the late 1930's and the country was The Chez Republic? and the leader was Hitler?

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 07:50 AM
The more things change the more they stay the same. If I was to tell you that an army invaded a country, that had a lot of it's ethnic people living in it, and that the world did little to stop this, would you say that it was up to the people of that country?

Would you say that it is a good thing that the world did not act?

What If I told you it was the late 1930's and the country was The Chez Republic? and the leader was Hitler?

If an army is invading countries and trying to form an empire, choosing not to act is stupid. That empire won't stop when it gets to your borders.

However, if a dictator is oppressing his own people, it is the duty of those people to rise up against him.

Max Rockatansky
03-16-2014, 07:57 AM
The more things change the more they stay the same. If I was to tell you that an army invaded a country, that had a lot of it's ethnic people living in it, and that the world did little to stop this, would you say that it was up to the people of that country?

Would you say that it is a good thing that the world did not act?

What If I told you it was the late 1930's and the country was The Chez Republic? and the leader was Hitler?

Agreed. Japanese in China massacring the population? Not a problem. It's a Chinese problem and we should just sell more oil and steel to the Japanese while we still can.

zelmo1234
03-16-2014, 07:59 AM
If an army is invading countries and trying to form an empire, choosing not to act is stupid. That empire won't stop when it gets to your borders.

However, if a dictator is oppressing his own people, it is the duty of those people to rise up against him.

So what are your thoughts on Ukraine?

zelmo1234
03-16-2014, 08:00 AM
Agreed. Japanese in China massacring the population? Not a problem. It's a Chinese problem and we should just sell more oil and steel to the Japanese while we still can.

Correct! We paid the price for that too did we not?

Max Rockatansky
03-16-2014, 08:05 AM
Correct! We paid the price for that too did we not?

Yes. In that case we did protest Japans actions and cut off exports of war materials to them. Their reaction was the classic "You're either with us or against us" and they considered our refusal to accept their "right" to China as opposition. We all know the results.

nic34
03-16-2014, 08:18 AM
You think there's grid lock in congress now....

A Paul presidency would be wasted unless he could sweep in like minded allies.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 08:25 AM
So what are your thoughts on Ukraine?

As long as Russia's military stays in Crimea and does not make moves toward Kiev, as long as they respect the right of Crimeans to choose their own destiny and withdraw if Crimeans elect not to join Russia, then I don't care.

I am unaffiliated. I support only the freedom of Ukraine and Crimea to self-determination.

1751_Texan
03-16-2014, 08:42 AM
Are you suggesting that non-interventionism is a destructive and dangerous policy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In and of itself, no. No one can ever gauge the outcome of the US remaining neutral in any global or regional conflict. Bush era interventionalism in Iraq and the region, is seen by most as a worst case senario.

Syria...is it better to have no imput at all or more than the imput that we have had thus far? Is less intervention benificial to the US? How? Is there any benefit to the Nation of Syria or the Syrian people?[rhetorical]


I don't have any problem having those kinds of discussions; what I may have a problem with, is setting a concrete barrier to ever having those discussions.

Codename Section
03-16-2014, 08:43 AM
You think there's grid lock in congress now....

A Paul presidency would be wasted unless he could sweep in like minded allies.

He's friends with Sanders and Leahy and I forget that Dem from Oregon. He's got more Dem friends than Republicans.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 08:47 AM
You think there's grid lock in congress now....

A Paul presidency would be wasted unless he could sweep in like minded allies.

I second Code's statement. Rand has friends and allies in both parties.

Cigar
03-16-2014, 10:21 AM
Wait ... you guys now watch Bill Maher, but all those other times I have posted about Bill Maher you didn't watch it. :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Hmmmm :wink:

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 10:23 AM
Wait ... you guys now watch Bill Maher, but all those other times I have posted about Bill Maher you didn't watch it. :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Hmmmm :wink:

Who said I watched Bill Maher? I don't. I was just reading Politico over my morning tea and that article caught my eye.

donttread
03-16-2014, 11:55 AM
via Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/bill-maher-rand-paul-104693.html):



Freedom is sexy.

The coalition strengthens daily.

Peter1469
03-16-2014, 01:29 PM
Agreed, but I think that is more of a Libertarian Party platform ideal. If elected, I think, like President's before him, he'd be given a fuller understanding of the global situation, the consequences of isolationism and that he'd do the right thing.

Most US presidents have not been war mongers. Once that is off the table, the realities of geopolitics dictates a fairly narrow range of courses of action. What we are really talking about is using soft power to influence other nations to our will.

Look at how the Russian markets have responded to this crisis. The richest man in Russia lost $6B+ in assets. When I get home I can spend more time looking at the financial costs that Russia has paid so far.

Each nation has interests and constraints. These work together along with the individual nation's capabilities to dictate what they can and can't do on the international arena.

Max Rockatansky
03-16-2014, 03:35 PM
Most US presidents have not been war mongers. Once that is off the table, the realities of geopolitics dictates a fairly narrow range of courses of action. What we are really talking about is using soft power to influence other nations to our will.

Look at how the Russian markets have responded to this crisis. The richest man in Russia lost $6B+ in assets. When I get home I can spend more time looking at the financial costs that Russia has paid so far.

Each nation has interests and constraints. These work together along with the individual nation's capabilities to dictate what they can and can't do on the international arena.

Excellent post and very well said.

That doesn't work all the time. It won't work very well for the DPRK, for instance, but it does for most modern powers. The more freedom the citizens of those powers have, the more likely it will work.

Mister D
03-16-2014, 03:38 PM
Who said I watched Bill Maher? I don't. I was just reading Politico over my morning tea and that article caught my eye.

Cigar doesn't do gotcha very well.

What kind of tea?

donttread
03-16-2014, 04:37 PM
The prospect of an apocalyptic world conflict has been virtually negated by free trade and diplomatic initiatives.


Well that and nukes. I don't think countries with nukes get attacked too often. Although we do play war games in other people's back yards

Mainecoons
03-16-2014, 04:55 PM
A play on words to me, don't get me wrong, I think he would be a good President, unfortunately, he might be the President that leads to the next real world conflict. however truth be told it might be just what the world needs!

Not a play on words at all. Go back and read the thread where the difference between the two is made crystal clear. Isolationists don't want to be part of the world at all, including trade. Non interventionists reject the role of world policeman. There's a huge difference between the two.

Mister D
03-16-2014, 05:01 PM
They said the same things prior to WW1 (i.e. that the economic interconnectedness of Europe's nations made war much less likely if not impossible). The ideological predicates of the current global order are based on the the illusions of endless economic growth and endless consumption. I think liberals, especially those who share the triumphalism of Francis Fukuyama, may see history (which has no end and is always open) come back to bite them in the ass.

Paperback Writer
03-16-2014, 05:05 PM
I don't have a vote or a say, really. It's your country, do as you wish. Back in 2008 I, like much of Europe obviously, had high hopes for Obama. Looking back now I can see that rather than look at Obama I looked at Bush and McCain and allowed my anger at our nation being dragged into the wars to cloud my better judgment. I was quite happy when he won and praised America for voting for him. Now, I tell everyone I was a fool.

What did we know of Obama? Very little. He was a community organizer, but we don't know how well he did at it or what he accomplished. He wasn't in the Senate long enough to do anything. His time as an Illinois Congressman saw a lot of non-votes. He smiled a lot, had brilliant speeches, and felt different than the status quo. We expected a different America and got more of the same only with more controversy due to racial tensions.

I like Rand Paul a lot, less than his father, but a lot. I feel like he could be a different sort. I am now researching him for both job and my own edification. I do know that, unlike Obama, we can look at his family and see a pattern that I can appreciate. How he turns out is anyone's guess but so far his family and his history matches his speeches, so that's a plus.

Peter1469
03-16-2014, 05:12 PM
What nation has the ability to wage a large scale war? As an example, the UK ran out of Tomahawk cruise missiles within two weeks of Libya.

The Russians no longer have the capability of invading western Europe.

Nations are constrained by current reality.

Peter1469
03-16-2014, 05:16 PM
Racial tensions have not held Obama back from doing whatever Europe thought that he would do. The only real racial tensions of import are from the left used as an attempt to shut down any voice that doesn't agree with the administration.


I don't have a vote or a say, really. It's your country, do as you wish. Back in 2008 I, like much of Europe obviously, had high hopes for Obama. Looking back now I can see that rather than look at Obama I looked at Bush and McCain and allowed my anger at our nation being dragged into the wars to cloud my better judgment. I was quite happy when he won and praised America for voting for him. Now, I tell everyone I was a fool.

What did we know of Obama? Very little. He was a community organizer, but we don't know how well he did at it or what he accomplished. He wasn't in the Senate long enough to do anything. His time as an Illinois Congressman saw a lot of non-votes. He smiled a lot, had brilliant speeches, and felt different than the status quo. We expected a different America and got more of the same only with more controversy due to racial tensions.

I like Rand Paul a lot, less than his father, but a lot. I feel like he could be a different sort. I am now researching him for both job and my own edification. I do know that, unlike Obama, we can look at his family and see a pattern that I can appreciate. How he turns out is anyone's guess but so far his family and his history matches his speeches, so that's a plus.

Mainecoons
03-16-2014, 06:35 PM
I don't have a vote or a say, really. It's your country, do as you wish. Back in 2008 I, like much of Europe obviously, had high hopes for Obama. Looking back now I can see that rather than look at Obama I looked at Bush and McCain and allowed my anger at our nation being dragged into the wars to cloud my better judgment. I was quite happy when he won and praised America for voting for him. Now, I tell everyone I was a fool.

What did we know of Obama? Very little. He was a community organizer, but we don't know how well he did at it or what he accomplished. He wasn't in the Senate long enough to do anything. His time as an Illinois Congressman saw a lot of non-votes. He smiled a lot, had brilliant speeches, and felt different than the status quo. We expected a different America and got more of the same only with more controversy due to racial tensions.

I like Rand Paul a lot, less than his father, but a lot. I feel like he could be a different sort. I am now researching him for both job and my own edification. I do know that, unlike Obama, we can look at his family and see a pattern that I can appreciate. How he turns out is anyone's guess but so far his family and his history matches his speeches, so that's a plus.

This is a great post. I really appreciate the erudite perspective you bring to this group. If I ever get back to the U.K. I want to buy you a pint or two of real ale.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 06:35 PM
Cigar doesn't do gotcha very well.

What kind of tea?

Earl Grey. I always prefer Earl Grey or black in the morning, rooibos (red) or green in the afternoon, and chamomile (white) at night.

Mainecoons
03-16-2014, 06:38 PM
Earl Grey. I always prefer Earl Grey or black in the morning, rooibos (red) or green in the afternoon, and chamomile (white) at night.

Very healthy habit, that.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 06:49 PM
Very healthy habit, that.

It's one of the reasons I adopted it. Now, I just need to cut out sodas and I'll be set.

Paperback Writer
03-16-2014, 06:50 PM
This is a great post. I really appreciate the erudite perspective you bring to this group. If I ever get back to the U.K. I want to buy you a pint or two of real ale.

I know just the pub(s).

Mainecoons
03-16-2014, 06:53 PM
God how I love the pubs in the U.K. I actually have a beer mat collection of several hundred real ales I've quaffed. Being a bloody drunk is so enjoyable there. :grin:

Mister D
03-16-2014, 07:04 PM
Earl Grey. I always prefer Earl Grey or black in the morning, rooibos (red) or green in the afternoon, and chamomile (white) at night.

Same here. I always like black tea in the AM. Earl Grey is a favorite but I also like lapsang, pu-erh, and dark oolongs. After lunch I go for green tea or a green oolong. I like roobios but that's not really tea.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 07:14 PM
Same here. I always like black tea in the AM. Earl Grey is a favorite but I also like lapsang, pu-erh, and dark oolongs. After lunch I go for green tea or a green oolong. I like roobios but that's not really tea.

My favorite teas are darjeeling and Earl Grey.

Max Rockatansky
03-16-2014, 07:21 PM
What nation has the ability to wage a large scale war? As an example, the UK ran out of Tomahawk cruise missiles within two weeks of Libya.

The Russians no longer have the capability of invading western Europe.

Nations are constrained by current reality.


True. So far Russia has invaded Crimea without any shots known to be fired. They are inside the border of Ukraine the same way. I don't know without looking, but I think there were some firefights when they invaded Georgia. Definitely in Chechnya.

The Xl
03-16-2014, 07:23 PM
Not a play on words at all. Go back and read the thread where the difference between the two is made crystal clear. Isolationists don't want to be part of the world at all, including trade. Non interventionists reject the role of world policeman. There's a huge difference between the two.

A good rule of thumb is to either ignore or not take seriously people that attempt to conflate the two, as they are wildly different. It shows either dishonesty and a lack of a valid counterargument, or extreme ignorance.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 07:23 PM
True. So far Russia has invaded Crimea without any shots known to be fired. They are inside the border of Ukraine the same way. I don't know without looking, but I think there were some firefights when they invaded Georgia. Definitely in Chechnya.

Russia has not invaded Crimea.

Mister D
03-16-2014, 07:26 PM
My favorite teas are darjeeling and Earl Grey.

Have you tried Lady Grey? It's good too. Twinings makes it. It's a lot like Earl Grey. I get most of my tea from sellers online because I prefer loose leaf Chinese teas but Twinings is some of the est you will find in a typical American market.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 07:27 PM
Have you tried Lady Grey? It's good too. Twinings makes it. It's a lot like Earl Grey. I get most of my tea from sellers online because I prefer loose leaf Chinese teas but Twinings is some of the est you will find in a typical American market.

I haven't tried Lady Grey yet. But I agree, my preference is loose leaf tea. I have a steeper and everything. But I also love Twinings. Only tea bags I drink.

Max Rockatansky
03-16-2014, 07:29 PM
Ukraine denounces ‘invasion’ by Russian forces on eve of Crimea’s referendum (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/tensions-mount-as-crimea-prepares-for-referendum/2014/03/15/a384c36a-ac40-11e3-a06a-e3230a43d6cb_story.html)
KIEV, Ukraine — Russia’s military staged a provocative new act of aggression Saturday, occupying a natural gas distribution center and village on a strip of Ukrainian land near the Crimean Peninsula and prompting Kiev’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs to denounce “a military invasion by Russia.”

The incident marked the first face-to-face standoff between the Ukrainian and Russian militaries outside the Crimean Peninsula, suggesting that Moscow is testing the will of Kiev amid fears of further Russian incursions in eastern and southern Ukraine. The move comes as the vote in Crimea begins on whether the residents there want to break away from Ukraine and join Russia.

On Sunday, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said armed men raided a Ukrainian base under the control of Crimean self defense militias and siphoned gasoline stored there into oil tankers.

In the overnight incursion near Simferopol, about 25 men appeared with authorization from the pro-Russia Crimean government, according to Vladislav Seleznyov, a ministry spokesman. He said they filled two oil tankers that drove away, and two more arrived to be filled.

Russian troops in four helicopter gunships and three armored combat vehicles descended on the natural gas facility near the village of Strilkove about 1:30 p.m. local time, according to Ukrainian officials. The Russians said they had seized the site out of fears it would be targeted by “terrorists,” according to a Ukrainian Defense Ministry official who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 07:33 PM
Ukraine denounces ‘invasion’ by Russian forces on eve of Crimea’s referendum (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/tensions-mount-as-crimea-prepares-for-referendum/2014/03/15/a384c36a-ac40-11e3-a06a-e3230a43d6cb_story.html)
KIEV, Ukraine — Russia’s military staged a provocative new act of aggression Saturday, occupying a natural gas distribution center and village on a strip of Ukrainian land near the Crimean Peninsula and prompting Kiev’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs to denounce “a military invasion by Russia.”

The incident marked the first face-to-face standoff between the Ukrainian and Russian militaries outside the Crimean Peninsula, suggesting that Moscow is testing the will of Kiev amid fears of further Russian incursions in eastern and southern Ukraine. The move comes as the vote in Crimea begins on whether the residents there want to break away from Ukraine and join Russia.

On Sunday, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said armed men raided a Ukrainian base under the control of Crimean self defense militias and siphoned gasoline stored there into oil tankers.

In the overnight incursion near Simferopol, about 25 men appeared with authorization from the pro-Russia Crimean government, according to Vladislav Seleznyov, a ministry spokesman. He said they filled two oil tankers that drove away, and two more arrived to be filled.

Russian troops in four helicopter gunships and three armored combat vehicles descended on the natural gas facility near the village of Strilkove about 1:30 p.m. local time, according to Ukrainian officials. The Russians said they had seized the site out of fears it would be targeted by “terrorists,” according to a Ukrainian Defense Ministry official who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

"...on a strip of Ukrainian land near the Crimean Peninsula."

Correct, they are officially occupying a part of Ukraine. That was not, however, your original contention that I responded to. You said they invaded Crimea, I said they did not. This village and oil distribution center is outside Crimea.

Paperback Writer
03-16-2014, 07:34 PM
I much prefer loose Jasmine tea.

Green Arrow
03-16-2014, 07:35 PM
I much prefer loose Jasmine tea.

I like Jasmine.

Mister D
03-16-2014, 07:35 PM
I haven't tried Lady Grey yet. But I agree, my preference is loose leaf tea. I have a steeper and everything. But I also love Twinings. Only tea bags I drink.

It's pretty good. Give it a shot.

Peter1469
03-17-2014, 03:31 AM
True. So far Russia has invaded Crimea without any shots known to be fired. They are inside the border of Ukraine the same way. I don't know without looking, but I think there were some firefights when they invaded Georgia.
Definitely in Chechnya.

Yes to the last two sentences. In Georgia Russia at least followed the laws of war (in the use of force, although not in starting the war). But in Chechnya, not so much. They would cordon off cities and shell them for a month or longer, without evacuating the civilians first. Then they claimed to have issues with our actions in Iraq..., it was just for show. If our media was honest, they would have brought up Puntin's methods in Chechnya while we were seizing Falujuia. (SP).

Max Rockatansky
03-17-2014, 05:34 AM
The Russian vote in Crimea must be fair because they only got 95.7% whereas Dear Leader always garners nearly 100% of the vote.

http://rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/ (http://rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/)Over 95 percent of voters in the Crimean referendum have answered ‘yes’ to the autonomous republic joining Russia and less than 4 percent of the vote participants want the region to remain part of Ukraine, according to preliminary results.With over 75 percent of the votes already counted, preliminary result show that 95.7 percent of voters said 'yes' to the reunion of the republic with Russia as a constituent unit of the Russian Federation. Only 3.2 percent of the ballots were cast for staying with Ukraine as an Autonomous Republic with broader rights. The remaining 1.1 percent of the ballots were declared invalid.

http://time.com/17720/north-korea-election-a-sham-worth-studying/
when North Korea votes, it votes. When exactly 100% of eligible North Korean set out to cast votes 100% in favor of predetermined politicians, they were carried forth on “billows of emotion and happiness,” state media reported. And nowhere were they happier — or more billowy, presumably — that in Kim’s district, Mount Paektu, the Korean peninsula’s highest peak. The group that voted at the storied site were so moved by the exercise that they spontaneously burst into song, state media said.

Paperback Writer
03-17-2014, 06:31 AM
In your last election your Obama got 100% of the vote in several districts. He must be extremely popular.

Max Rockatansky
03-17-2014, 07:07 AM
In your last election your Obama got 100% of the vote in several districts. He must be extremely popular.

Internet myth. Accusations of voter fraud are much more common than actual voter fraud. Further, voter ID won't fix the most common form of voter fraud: absentee balloting where someone other than the person addressed votes through the mail.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/01/voting-conspiracies/

Paperback Writer
03-17-2014, 07:32 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/romney-earned-zero-votes-in-some-urban-precincts/

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20121112_In_59_Philadelphia_voting_wards__Mitt_Rom ney_got_zero_votes.html

From your own link: http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp


In 59 voting districts in the Philadelphia region, Obama received 100% of the votes with not even a single vote recorded for Romney. (A mathematical and statistical impossibility).
It is true that 59 voting divisions in Philadelphia recorded no votes for Mitt Romney, but given the voter composition of the Philadelphia area (and some Philadelphia wards in particular) and the number of voters in each division, that outcome was hardly a "mathematical and statistical impossibility."
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp#T6GkwsUMerkq92sE.99

Max Rockatansky
03-17-2014, 12:21 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/romney-earned-zero-votes-in-some-urban-precincts/

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20121112_In_59_Philadelphia_voting_wards__Mitt_Rom ney_got_zero_votes.html

From your own link: http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp



Barack Obama won the overall vote in the Philadelphia (http://phillyelectionresults.com/Citywide_Election_Results.html) area by an 85% to 14% margin over Mitt Romney; Obama also received greater than 90% of the vote in more than half of Philadelphia's 66 wards, and 99% or more of the vote in seven of those wards. That result was hardly surprising given that, as the Philadelphia Inquirer noted, those wards are "clustered in almost exclusively black sections of West and North Philadelphia" and "nationally, 93 percent of African Americans voted for Obama." The Philadelphia wards that trended very heavily for Barack Obama included many divisions of between 200 and 500 voters in which Mitt Romney received a scant handful of votes (and sometimes no votes at all), a result mirroring that of the previous election, in which Republican candidate John McCain "got zero votes in 57 Philadelphia voting divisions."

When the Inquirer went looking (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/178742021.html) for Republican voters in some of those divisions, they couldn't find any:Many parts of Philadelphia and other big cities simply lack Republican voters, a fact of campaigning that has been true since Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal, Jonathan Rodden, a political science professor at Stanford University, said.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp#McCadzXFlFvQ2qrq.99

Mini Me
03-17-2014, 12:56 PM
A play on words to me, don't get me wrong, I think he would be a good President, unfortunately, he might be the President that leads to the next real world conflict. however truth be told it might be just what the world needs!

Non intervention is what led Hitler to declare war on the US, as he perceived our weak military. And England was on her knees before the US intervened, as Hitler walked into Austria, Sudetenland unfettered, as we cowered in fear.

But I am not in any way an imperialist, just saying we must remain vigilant and strong.

Mini Me
03-17-2014, 01:02 PM
The prospect of an apocalyptic world conflict has been virtually negated by free trade and diplomatic initiatives.

That's a New World Order myth! The new masters would like everyone to believe that!

That didn't stop Japan from attacking us, after trade beefs, embargoes developed with them!
And the vast amount of shipping tonnage lost in the Atlantic, was a great deal of why we went to war against Germany!

That's all trade related stuff!

Mini Me
03-17-2014, 01:08 PM
The projections made prior to WWI were premature. Put simply, people were yet to be exposed to conflict on as catastrophic a scale as was witnessed in the 20th Century. Europe was a melting pot of ethnic and ideological tensions set to explode. The Internet and globalized capitalism hadn't emerged to string together a coherent world narrative. Things are radically different now.

The Balkans in Europe are still a powder keg of ethnic and ideological tensions set to explode!
And the Ukraine unrest and the collapse of the EU and Euro could be the spark.
Putin is well aware of this, and is ready to grab up former Soviet bloc territories, and NATO, Nobama or the UN will do nothing!

Bob
03-17-2014, 01:38 PM
A play on words to me, don't get me wrong, I think he would be a good President, unfortunately, he might be the President that leads to the next real world conflict. however truth be told it might be just what the world needs!

We need a person who managed a state to become president.

I did not vote for Jerry Brown. However a question is, how does he rate vs Obama.

Much better.

Brown is a Democrat. He had to be supported by some party and is a lifetime democrat.

Still, as a voter who did not vote for him, do I think he is good for CA.

YES.

Why?

He has worked hard to fix the economics of the State Government. I don't expect him to repair industry, but I did expect him to fix government.

I don't plan to vote for him, but the man came to CA with tons of hands on experience. He ran CA years ago as a young moon beam. He cut down the expenses of the office of Governor then and now.

I have to admit he balanced the budget of CA.

Somehow, he got the democrats to do things they had refused to do for Schwartznegger.

He also ran a city. Main thing, he does understand managing government.

Bob
03-17-2014, 01:47 PM
If the republicans get votes in the cities, they will get called RINO at best and sell out's at worst.

Sad but true. Few in cities support republicans. Democrats understand that.

Maps prove my comments are correct.

Strangely, an assumption might be that city dwellers know each other and are pals to each other. I think that is not true.

It seems to me the most friendly are those living out of cities.

Gerrard Winstanley
03-17-2014, 01:50 PM
The Balkans in Europe are still a powder keg of ethnic and ideological tensions set to explode!
And the Ukraine unrest and the collapse of the EU and Euro could be the spark.
You clearly missed the 1990s.
Putin is well aware of this, and is ready to grab up former Soviet bloc territories, and NATO, Nobama or the UN will do nothing!
Give up. Putin is a very poor Hitler parallel.

Gerrard Winstanley
03-17-2014, 01:52 PM
That's a New World Order myth! The new masters would like everyone to believe that!

That didn't stop Japan from attacking us, after trade beefs, embargoes developed with them!
And the vast amount of shipping tonnage lost in the Atlantic, was a great deal of why we went to war against Germany!

That's all trade related stuff!
Jesus. This isn't 1943.

Green Arrow
03-17-2014, 04:19 PM
Jesus. This isn't 1943.

America is already convinced that it is and Putin is the second coming of Hitler.