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Cigar
03-16-2014, 10:30 AM
How the Irish Became White? Paul Ryan's Ugly Public Embrace of Anti-Black Racism and Eugenics (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/14/1284799/-How-the-Irish-Became-White-Paul-Ryan-s-Ugly-Public-Embrace-of-Anti-Black-Racism-and-Eugenics)
Paul Ryan is the leader of the Republican Party’s “intellectual” wing. He has been described by the news media in fawning terms as a “policy wonk”, a “numbers guy”, and a “serious thinker”.


Consequently, Ryan's recent claim that "inner city" black men are lazy and have no work ethic is a revealing insight into the current state of movement conservatism and the former's supposed intellectual gifts.


There is no genius in Paul Ryan's claims: his arguments about lazy black people are a boilerplate post-civil Rights era Republican talking point.


To advance this claim, he leveraged Charles Murray's discredited research on the relationship between I.Q. and race. Ryan's intellectual slippage is not a new habit. In his anti-poverty tome, which purports (and fails) to discredit President Johnson's Great Society era programs, Paul Ryan misrepresented (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/03/04/Economists-Say-Paul-Ryan-Misrepresented-Their-Research) and distorted (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/ryan-enlists-social-science-disaster-ensues.html) research findings (http://www.salon.com/2014/03/05/paul_ryans_every_distortion_fact_checking_his_anti _poverty_plan/).


He is intellectually dishonest (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=4095&utm_content=buffer03fca&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer); Ryan's claim to be a serious thinker on matters of public policy is a cheap, and not very convincing, parlor trick.


It is also a perfect fit for the post-fact universe and anti-intellectualism of the present day American conservative movement. Paul Ryan's recent observation about the laziness of black people is also providing an additional lesson in how the Republican Party has now fully merged conservatism and "symbolic racism".


Moreover, in a moment when Republicans have suggested that black and brown people’s children should become janitors to learn a “work ethic”, that Obama buys black people’s votes with food stamps, and that “real Americans”, i.e. white people, are losing “their country” to non-whites, Ryan’s argument is a rather flat channeling of the Southern Strategy and Reagan’s opines about “strapping black bucks” and "welfare queens" living in luxury as they leech off of white people.


There is an ugly hypocrisy at the heart of Paul Ryan’s efforts to chastise African-Americans (a group of people who quite literally built the United States and have never received compensation or reparations) for having “bad culture” and perhaps even defective genes.


Paul Ryan is an Irish-American. The same arguments that Ryan is making about the “bad culture” of African-Americans, and their supposed “laziness” and “idleness”, were made against his Irish ancestors by eugenicists and race scientists in the United States and Europe.



Even as late as the early decades of the 20th century, leading American eugenicists and race scientists such as Madison Grant—author of the infamous tract The Passing of the Great Race—were unsure (http://books.google.com/books?id=6nOS3FGidTcC&q=irish#v=snippet&q=madison%20grant&f=false) of the relationship between the Irish and "white civilization":



By the 1920s, some eugenicists seemed ready to admit the Irish or "Celts" to a racial status closer to Anglo-Saxons. But not all. In the Passing of the Great Race, a highly read and influential attack on "race mongrelization" the eugenicist Madison Grant waffled about where the Irish stood. Grant observed that a physical change had occurred among the Irish in America. The "Neanderthal physical characteristics of the native Irish--the great upper lip, bridgeless nose, beetling brow with low growing hair, and wild and savage aspect:--had largely disappeared. The Irish apeman of Nast's cartoons had evolved a more human form. Yet, with the Irish, in Grant's view, looks could be deceiving. When it came to intellectual and moral traits, "the mental and cultural traits of the aborigines have proved to be exceedingly persistent and appear in the unstable temperament and the lack of coordinating and reasoning power, so often found among the Irish."





... 1,2,3 ... Deny

Libhater
03-16-2014, 10:53 AM
Charles Murray's discredited claims? LOL! Show me where Charles Murray is wrong. Like Ryan, I am also an Irish American. I don't
see where any of Ryan's claims are wrong. The fact that no reasonable minded person would dispute the overwhelming facts that
blacks represent an inordinate amount of entitlement babies, and an inordinate amount of crack heads, and an inordinate amount
of incarcerated felons, and an inordinate amount of low IQ dumbbells doesn't bode well for the credibility of your Ryan diatribe.

Cigar
03-16-2014, 10:57 AM
Charles Murray's discredited claims? LOL! Show me where Charles Murray is wrong. Like Ryan, I am also an Irish American. I don't
see where any of Ryan's claims are wrong. The fact that no reasonable minded person would dispute the overwhelming facts that
blacks represent an inordinate amount of entitlement babies, and an inordinate amount of crack heads, and an inordinate amount
of incarcerated felons, and an inordinate amount of low IQ dumbbells doesn't bode well for the credibility of your Ryan diatribe.

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd446/clintonvilleTom/this%20and%20that/countryfolk.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_aRE25RtcVM8/Sj6OH0qDUHI/AAAAAAAAAaw/W24UwQ2uNX8/s400/redneck2009.jpg
http://rogercatlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/redneckV-300x224.jpg

Appalachia University :laugh:

Chris
03-16-2014, 11:12 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Race_and_intelligence presents a collection of criticisms of The Bell Curve. When you consider the claim of Herrnstein and Murray, you have to wonder are the criticisms about the claim or interpretations of it and reactions to those interpretations. The claim: "'It seems highly likely to us that both genes and the environment have something to do with racial differences.' The introduction to the chapter more cautiously states, "The debate about whether and how much genes and environment have to do with ethnic differences remains unresolved.'" The criticism centers on how much genes and environment have an effect, but that is what the authors said the argument was.

Most misinterpretations have to do with general lack of understanding of statistics.

MrJimmyDale
03-16-2014, 11:12 AM
70% of subsidized, welfare, food stamp, breeding-for-money, drug dealing, "disabled", Handicapped placarded people are liars and cheats and thieves............has nothing to do with skin color or socioeconomic status..........

Paperback Writer
03-16-2014, 11:12 AM
Ha, Irish!

Contrails
03-16-2014, 11:21 AM
Charles Murray's discredited claims? LOL! Show me where Charles Murray is wrong. Like Ryan, I am also an Irish American. I don't
see where any of Ryan's claims are wrong. The fact that no reasonable minded person would dispute the overwhelming facts that
blacks represent an inordinate amount of entitlement babies, and an inordinate amount of crack heads, and an inordinate amount
of incarcerated felons, and an inordinate amount of low IQ dumbbells doesn't bode well for the credibility of your Ryan diatribe.
You're wrong on at least one count there.
http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1107330

Max Rockatansky
03-16-2014, 12:58 PM
"The country went to hell when we let the Irish and Italians immigrate." -- rich descendant of Mayflower immigrants

darroll
03-16-2014, 01:22 PM
Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, Ford and Morgan. These men rose from obscure backgrounds and ...
These businessman become the richest and most successful in our history.
Morgan even bailed out the US when they went broke.

Bob
03-16-2014, 01:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Race_and_intelligence presents a collection of criticisms of The Bell Curve. When you consider the claim of Herrnstein and Murray, you have to wonder are the criticisms about the claim or interpretations of it and reactions to those interpretations. The claim: "'It seems highly likely to us that both genes and the environment have something to do with racial differences.' The introduction to the chapter more cautiously states, "The debate about whether and how much genes and environment have to do with ethnic differences remains unresolved.'" The criticism centers on how much genes and environment have an effect, but that is what the authors said the argument was.

Most misinterpretations have to do with general lack of understanding of statistics.

They can't help themselves.

Rather focus on their alleged strengths, they prefer to start this crap of bashing a potential candidate. This time it is Ryan, sooner or later they will work down their list.

Bob
03-16-2014, 01:32 PM
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd446/clintonvilleTom/this and that/countryfolk.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_aRE25RtcVM8/Sj6OH0qDUHI/AAAAAAAAAaw/W24UwQ2uNX8/s400/redneck2009.jpg
http://rogercatlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/redneckV-300x224.jpg

Appalachia University :laugh:

I wish more posters did as Cigar just did and share their family photos.

Thanks Cigar.

Paperback Writer
03-16-2014, 01:32 PM
"The country went to hell when we let the Irish and Italians immigrate." -- rich descendant of Mayflower immigrants

Never a truer word said. Always a problem when you let in Irish.

hanger4
03-16-2014, 01:45 PM
How the Irish Became White? Paul Ryan's Ugly Public Embrace of Anti-Black Racism and Eugenics (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/14/1284799/-How-the-Irish-Became-White-Paul-Ryan-s-Ugly-Public-Embrace-of-Anti-Black-Racism-and-Eugenics) Paul Ryan is the leader of the Republican Party’s “intellectual” wing. He has been described by the news media in fawning terms as a “policy wonk”, a “numbers guy”, and a “serious thinker”. Consequently, Ryan's recent claim that "inner city" black men are lazy and have no work ethic is a revealing insight into the current state of movement conservatism and the former's supposed intellectual gifts. There is no genius in Paul Ryan's claims: his arguments about lazy black people are a boilerplate post-civil Rights era Republican talking point. To advance this claim, he leveraged Charles Murray's discredited research on the relationship between I.Q. and race. Ryan's intellectual slippage is not a new habit. In his anti-poverty tome, which purports (and fails) to discredit President Johnson's Great Society era programs, Paul Ryan misrepresented (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/03/04/Economists-Say-Paul-Ryan-Misrepresented-Their-Research) and distorted (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/ryan-enlists-social-science-disaster-ensues.html) research findings (http://www.salon.com/2014/03/05/paul_ryans_every_distortion_fact_checking_his_anti _poverty_plan/). He is intellectually dishonest (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=4095&utm_content=buffer03fca&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer); Ryan's claim to be a serious thinker on matters of public policy is a cheap, and not very convincing, parlor trick. It is also a perfect fit for the post-fact universe and anti-intellectualism of the present day American conservative movement. Paul Ryan's recent observation about the laziness of black people is also providing an additional lesson in how the Republican Party has now fully merged conservatism and "symbolic racism". Moreover, in a moment when Republicans have suggested that black and brown people’s children should become janitors to learn a “work ethic”, that Obama buys black people’s votes with food stamps, and that “real Americans”, i.e. white people, are losing “their country” to non-whites, Ryan’s argument is a rather flat channeling of the Southern Strategy and Reagan’s opines about “strapping black bucks” and "welfare queens" living in luxury as they leech off of white people. There is an ugly hypocrisy at the heart of Paul Ryan’s efforts to chastise African-Americans (a group of people who quite literally built the United States and have never received compensation or reparations) for having “bad culture” and perhaps even defective genes. Paul Ryan is an Irish-American. The same arguments that Ryan is making about the “bad culture” of African-Americans, and their supposed “laziness” and “idleness”, were made against his Irish ancestors by eugenicists and race scientists in the United States and Europe. Even as late as the early decades of the 20th century, leading American eugenicists and race scientists such as Madison Grant—author of the infamous tract The Passing of the Great Race—were unsure (http://books.google.com/books?id=6nOS3FGidTcC&q=irish#v=snippet&q=madison%20grant&f=false) of the relationship between the Irish and "white civilization":
By the 1920s, some eugenicists seemed ready to admit the Irish or "Celts" to a racial status closer to Anglo-Saxons. But not all. In the Passing of the Great Race, a highly read and influential attack on "race mongrelization" the eugenicist Madison Grant waffled about where the Irish stood. Grant observed that a physical change had occurred among the Irish in America. The "Neanderthal physical characteristics of the native Irish--the great upper lip, bridgeless nose, beetling brow with low growing hair, and wild and savage aspect:--had largely disappeared. The Irish apeman of Nast's cartoons had evolved a more human form. Yet, with the Irish, in Grant's view, looks could be deceiving. When it came to intellectual and moral traits, "the mental and cultural traits of the aborigines have proved to be exceedingly persistent and appear in the unstable temperament and the lack of coordinating and reasoning power, so often found among the Irish."... 1,2,3 ... Deny The strawman is strong in this one Obi-Wan Kenob.

Paperback Writer
03-16-2014, 01:46 PM
What has 6,000 legs and an IQ of 140?


A St. Patrick's Day parade!

zelmo1234
03-16-2014, 01:52 PM
Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, Ford and Morgan. These men rose from obscure backgrounds and ...
These businessman become the richest and most successful in our history.
Morgan even bailed out the US when they went broke.

Actually, Morgan was from a wealthy family

Carnigie started working when he was 9, Rockefeller when he was 15 Vanderbilt when he was 14

Not a scholar in the box!

Paperback Writer
03-16-2014, 02:20 PM
How do you sink an Irish submarine?

Knock on the hatch.

Chris
03-16-2014, 02:22 PM
They can't help themselves.

Rather focus on their alleged strengths, they prefer to start this crap of bashing a potential candidate. This time it is Ryan, sooner or later they will work down their list.

Same as in my Koch thread: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/23625-Charles-Koch-on-Cronyism

Cigar
03-16-2014, 02:26 PM
They can't help themselves.

Rather focus on their alleged strengths, they prefer to start this crap of bashing a potential candidate. This time it is Ryan, sooner or later they will work down their list.

No Pussies in Politics :laugh:

darroll
03-17-2014, 01:40 PM
Actually, Morgan was from a wealthy family

Carnigie started working when he was 9, Rockefeller when he was 15 Vanderbilt when he was 14

Not a scholar in the box!

Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, Ford and Morgan. These men were not born of great privilege. They came from meager means. Yet they saw opportunities where no one else had and they turned their dreams into reality.

http://www.comcastspotlight.com/news/programming-news/vanderbilt-rockefeller-carnegie-morgan-ford-%E2%80%A6-men-who-built-america

nic34
03-17-2014, 01:51 PM
How do you sink an Irish submarine?

Knock on the hatch.

You brits are such a nationalistic lot...

Paperback Writer
03-17-2014, 03:02 PM
You brits are such a nationalistic lot...

Less now than before, but yes, in general.

The Sage of Main Street
03-17-2014, 03:23 PM
Ryan's Mommy packs his lunch in a brown paper bag, which shows his solidarity with non-Whites. It also shows that at least one person cares about this loser.