Go Boom! RUSSIAN STOCKS TANK

[Cigar]

When Obama first launched sanctions against a handful of Putin "cronies" the markets laughed at how weak they were.

Nobody's laughing at Obama's sanctions now.

The Russian stock market is tanking today, as the MICEX is down 3.7% 2.0% in early going. This comes after Obama introduced sanctions against a new round of Russian officials, as well as a key bank used by Putin's cronies (Bank Rossiya).

One thing that's making the sanctions sting is that Visa and Mastercard have announced that they're freezing the accounts of cardholders at that bank.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/morning-markets-march-21-2014-3#ixzz2wbB5qcVd

[Cigar]

Where are all the Russian Cheerleaders and America Haters ... Oops, I mean Obama Haters :laugh:

[Peter1469]

Didn't the Russian markets (http://moex.com/en/) improve during the day?

[GrassrootsConservative]

Where are all the Russian Cheerleaders and America Haters ...

Same thing. They're called modern Liberals and they support the closest thing to Communism ever seen in America. The president is one of them. Most Democrats also are. Same for many "Republicans."

[The Sage of Main Street]

When Obama first launched sanctions against a handful of Putin "cronies" the markets laughed at how weak they were.

Nobody's laughing at Obama's sanctions now.

The Russian stock market is tanking today, as the MICEX is down 3.7% 2.0% in early going. This comes after Obama introduced sanctions against a new round of Russian officials, as well as a key bank used by Putin's cronies (Bank Rossiya).

One thing that's making the sanctions sting is that Visa and Mastercard have announced that they're freezing the accounts of cardholders at that bank.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/morning-markets-march-21-2014-3#ixzz2wbB5qcVd

You don't believe that Putin will strike back viciously? All for a bunch of useless Ukies.

[GrassrootsConservative]

You don't believe that Putin will strike back viciously? All for a bunch of useless Ukies.

They're not useless to Obama. He's going to use them to start another war.

[Bob]

I note that on that same day, the US stock markets also fell.

So, clearly what Obama did was to no effect on the markets.

If they Obama lovers plan to credit Obama for the market fall in Russia, surely they must also credit Obama with the fall of the US market.

[GrassrootsConservative]

I note that on that same day, the US stock markets also fell.

So, clearly what Obama did was to no effect on the markets.

If they Obama lovers plan to credit Obama for the market fall in Russia, surely they must also credit Obama with the fall of the US market.

Obama's credit for our market tanking is obvious and doesn't need to be stated. His crippling sanctions on America are killing us all. Many are going to have to pay a tax for not having healthcare. Some of those people won't be able to afford it. I will be able to for a couple years, but any longer than that with the projected rise in the amount of those taxes and I am going to have to make some serious, but unnecessary lifestyle changes. And that's just one of his many crippling sanctions on the American people.

No wonder Democrats think the minimum "living wage" should be $15 an hour, Obama's making everything twice as expensive so people should be getting paid twice as much.

I actually agree if this is the trend we're going to continue to go on.

[Cigar]

I note that on that same day, the US stock markets also fell.

So, clearly what Obama did was to no effect on the markets.

If they Obama lovers plan to credit Obama for the market fall in Russia, surely they must also credit Obama with the fall of the US market.

Obviously you boys don't know international markets :)

If this happened to the US it would equal over 500 points.

You Fail, n you are siding against your own country.

Wow, you Hate one Black Man and side against your own country.

Now we all know where you really stand.

Have a nice Weekend of Hate.

[Newpublius]

You hurt me more than any Russian ever will. No, Cigar, I'm not with you.

[Max Rockatansky]

Didn't the Russian markets (http://moex.com/en/) improve during the day?

It came back up, but war is always bad for stocks. Looking at the MICEX for the past month, it had a high of around 1500 mid-February, then started a slow slide down for a few days with a sharp drop on the 3rd of Mar. Down even more by the 14th to 1237 with slight rise to 1307 today. It's still down about 200 points.

http://www.micex.com/marketdata/analysis?secid=MICEXINDEXCF&boardid=SNDX&linetype=candles&period=-1d

[Green Arrow]

Actually, the sanctions on Russian oligarchs and businessmen are going to play right into Putin's hands. His cronies are hurting, naturally, but he's smiling.

[Max Rockatansky]

Actually, the sanctions on Russian oligarchs and businessmen are going to play right into Putin's hands. His cronies are hurting, naturally, but he's smiling.

Once people have a taste of freedom and wealth, they won't give it up very easily.

[Green Arrow]

Once people have a taste of freedom and wealth, they won't give it up very easily.

What relevance does this statement have to my comment?

[Peter1469]

The people placed on the sanction list didn't have their names drawn out of a hat. They represented two things:

1. They were not people who would negotiate the current crisis in Ukraine.
2. They have important ties to specific parts of the Russia economy and politics.

[Max Rockatansky]

What relevance does this statement have to my comment?
Your belief that sanctions play into Putin's hands.

[Green Arrow]

Your belief that sanctions play into Putin's hands.

I didn't say sanctions played into his hands, I was very specific. I said the sanctions on his oligarchs and business cronies played into his hands.

I also fail to see how destroying the Russian economy (which isn't happening but that is the point of sanctions) is "freedom" anything, considering it will be the average and poor of Russia's citizens that are hurt the most by these sanctions.

[Peter1469]

I didn't say sanctions played into his hands, I was very specific. I said the sanctions on his oligarchs and business cronies played into his hands.

I also fail to see how destroying the Russian economy (which isn't happening but that is the point of sanctions) is "freedom" anything, considering it will be the average and poor of Russia's citizens that are hurt the most by these sanctions.

The sanctions are not designed to destroy the Russia economy. There are very light, and tightly focused on forcing Russia to make some changes in which bank politicians use (Bank of Russia is on the list) and in which oligarch gets to "manage" large energy deals for example.

[Green Arrow]

The sanctions are not designed to destroy the Russia economy. There are very light, and tightly focused on forcing Russia to make some changes in which bank politicians use (Bank of Russia is on the list) and in which oligarch gets to "manage" large energy deals for example.

I meant sanctions in general, which I see happening with Russia eventually.

The problem with our sanctions is that they are giving Putin what he wants. Not that I give a shit either way, I just hate to see exercises in futility, particularly when my money is being wasted on it.

Putin has been trying to "de-offshorizatsiya" Russian businesses. He's trying to get Russian businesses to stay home in Russia so he can have more control over them. Plus, as Alyosha can no doubt shed some light on, Russian culture is very inward. They don't like interference from outside. Bringing Russian-owned businesses home would likely be a huge morale booster, and it may even provide a boon to their economy.

[Alyosha]

Russia has always been closed off to the western world. Russians are culturally very private, very insular, and very proud. They have a history of leaning towards Messiahs and antiheroes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koba_%28folk_hero%29), as well.

Even as a child I heard no one say they wanted to conquer the west. Russians have a different "morality" and they find western culture decadent and nothing they desire.

Russia had an ok relationship, for example, with homosexuality. As long as it was in the closet, they were fine with it. Mind you, no one gets a PDA pass in Russia. It's considered bad manners to even laugh out loud in public. When LT Dan Choi came to Russia for the Moscow Gay Pride parade and started some shit there (which almost made me think he's an agent provocateur) where the Pride Parade began to look like our Pride parades they suddenly did a retreat and closed off again.

Sexuality is for after 11 and in the proper place (like nightclubs with lots of whiskey).

Men are supposed to be MEN and women, women. Putin is loved--despite what we want to believe--precisely because he's an Uber-Male.

There will always be dissidents who feel that they could do better, but in general he's like a rock star there, kinda like Obama to liberals.

[Peter1469]

I meant sanctions in general, which I see happening with Russia eventually.

The problem with our sanctions is that they are giving Putin what he wants. Not that I give a shit either way, I just hate to see exercises in futility, particularly when my money is being wasted on it.

Putin has been trying to "de-offshorizatsiya" Russian businesses. He's trying to get Russian businesses to stay home in Russia so he can have more control over them. Plus, as @Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863) can no doubt shed some light on, Russian culture is very inward. They don't like interference from outside. Bringing Russian-owned businesses home would likely be a huge morale booster, and it may even provide a boon to their economy.

I see your point now. Yes, Putin wants Russian money to return to Russia. And that is working, it seems.

[Green Arrow]

I see your point now. Yes, Putin wants Russian money to return to Russia. And that is working, it seems.

That's one reason I'm opposed to the sanctions - the other being because I'm a non-interventionist, obviously.

If you're (this is to the Obamas, McCains, and Ransoms) going to sanction a government, be smart about it. All I ask.

[Alyosha]

The average low information voters in the US believe that the world is stuck in 1988. Russia can trade with China and every other country in the world. Right now, China has an untapped resource market of several billion and Russia (temporarily) can produce goods cheap enough to be bought there, something the US with its minimum wage laws and unions cannot do.

[Max Rockatansky]

The average low information voters in the US believe that the world is stuck in 1988. Russia can trade with China and every other country in the world. Right now, China has an untapped resource market of several billion and Russia (temporarily) can produce goods cheap enough to be bought there, something the US with its minimum wage laws and unions cannot do.


The good news is that in the US, unlike fucking Russia, people can actually vote!

http://oi59.tinypic.com/345eqoi.jpg

[Peter1469]

The average low information voters in the US believe that the world is stuck in 1988. Russia can trade with China and every other country in the world. Right now, China has an untapped resource market of several billion and Russia (temporarily) can produce goods cheap enough to be bought there, something the US with its minimum wage laws and unions cannot do.

China has more that just untapped resources; even better, they have rare earth metals. Almost a monopoly of them as I understand.

[Green Arrow]

The good news is that in the US, unlike fucking Russia, people can actually vote!

http://oi59.tinypic.com/345eqoi.jpg

People actually vote in Russia, too, you're just hopelessly ignorant of Russian culture and can't understand why a guy like Putin is actually popular.

[Max Rockatansky]

People actually vote in Russia, too, you're just hopelessly ignorant of Russian culture and can't understand why a guy like Putin is actually popular.

It's easy to understand why you like him so much.

[Green Arrow]

It's easy to understand why you like him so much.

Who said I liked him?

[Alyosha]

The good news is that in the US, unlike fucking Russia, people can actually vote!




Awwww, Maxie has hurt feelings. :D


Voter Suppression’s New Pretext By RICHARD L. HASEN Published

IRVINE, Calif. — IT’S the latest fad among state officials looking to make voting harder: We’re not racist, we’re just partisan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/opinion/voter-suppressions-new-pretext.html?_r=0

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bHn_iYWCt5k/UFD2IS9gmzI/AAAAAAAAE7A/90dh2gK7hCY/s1600/voter-suppression.jpg

[Alyosha]

Seriously, Max, if you would quit posting angry you'd be able to zing me better. You're under the mistaken impression that I am pro-Russia when I'm pro-statelessness.

It just makes you look petty and xenophobic when you come at me for being an immigrant.

[Green Arrow]

Seriously, Max, if you would quit posting angry you'd be able to zing me better. You're under the mistaken impression that I am pro-Russia when I'm pro-statelessness.

It just makes you look petty and xenophobic when you come at me for being an immigrant.

Meh, they always pull that crap. After 9/11, you were a terrorist sympathizer who hates America if you dared to speak out against war-time atrocities and the never-ending engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then opposition to drones was added to the list of "Signs You Hate America." Now it's daring to speak out against stupid actions by the U.S. government.

[Alyosha]

Meh, they always pull that crap. After 9/11, you were a terrorist sympathizer who hates America if you dared to speak out against war-time atrocities and the never-ending engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then opposition to drones was added to the list of "Signs You Hate America." Now it's daring to speak out against stupid actions by the U.S. government.


Prove you love America by not questioning her policies!

[Green Arrow]

Prove you love America by not questioning her policies!

But I don't love America! The truth is...I am in love with another...

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/09/09b6d948f2034669dd98c7c493778ee2a8eb8625f9b411cc61 4f4ba4e7d7f438.jpg

[Max Rockatansky]

Awwww, Maxie has hurt feelings. :D

Not at all. Since I live in a free country, unlike fucking Russia, I am happy to express my opinion.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c3b2a581a316312376ad62c677c22f2a4f5c9eb4/c=0-370-2939-2580&r=490x368/local/-/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2014/02/20//1392911876000-AP-Sochi-Olympics.jpg

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2543940.1392849006!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/image.jpg

http://img.gmw.cn/imgsports/attachement/jpg/site2/20140220/14feb5e05709146ff54754.jpg

[Alyosha]

Max, you really shouldn't let people know what your buttons are, but, hey, we can all play now! :)

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.184340!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/alg-police-punch-woman-jpg.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSutA0xRtiZbAW3W68g7t8FISFqg7E62 hP0Nqq4TsXHWtmgNK5k

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/brutality by Wayne Tilcock slash Enterprise photo.jpg

http://jobvoucherplan.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/police_brutality27.jpg

[Green Arrow]

Not at all. Since I live in a free country, unlike fucking Russia, I am happy to express my opinion.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c3b2a581a316312376ad62c677c22f2a4f5c9eb4/c=0-370-2939-2580&r=490x368/local/-/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2014/02/20//1392911876000-AP-Sochi-Olympics.jpg

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2543940.1392849006!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/image.jpg

http://img.gmw.cn/imgsports/attachement/jpg/site2/20140220/14feb5e05709146ff54754.jpg

Right, because America is so different.

[Max Rockatansky]

Right, because America is so different.

Yes, it is. Not perfect, but certainly better. If there was no difference between the two, then why are so many Russians immigrating to America and so few Americans wanting to immigrate to Russia?

[Green Arrow]

Yes, it is. Not perfect, but certainly better. If there was no difference between the two, then why are so many Russians immigrating to America and so few Americans wanting to immigrate to Russia?

Who said there was no difference? I sure didn't. When it comes to freedom, there is no middle ground. You're either free or you're not, and when police are doing to protesters in America what Russian police do to Russian protesters, when our government is spying on us and trying to censor the internet, when our government bans books, when our government designates "free speech zones," that isn't freedom.

[Max Rockatansky]

Who said there was no difference? I sure didn't.
It seems like you did imply it with snark:

Right, because America is so different.

[Green Arrow]

It seems like you did imply it with snark:

It's snark. As I've said before, I don't imply. If I don't say it, I don't intend it to be said.

[Alyosha]

Yes, it is. Not perfect, but certainly better. If there was no difference between the two, then why are so many Russians immigrating to America and so few Americans wanting to immigrate to Russia?

It's easier to immigrate to the US than to Russia. They don't want foreigners living there.


They're mean like that. <=note unkind thing said about Russia. :laugh:

[The Sage of Main Street]

China has more that just untapped resources; even better, they have rare earth metals. Almost a monopoly of them as I understand.

Nothing is rare on Earth. We've barely scratched the surface of it. But development of the resources would lead to cheap prices and low profits. Our oligarchs will have none of that.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Not at all. Since I live in a free country, unlike fucking Russia, I am happy to express my opinion.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c3b2a581a316312376ad62c677c22f2a4f5c9eb4/c=0-370-2939-2580&r=490x368/local/-/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2014/02/20//1392911876000-AP-Sochi-Olympics.jpg

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2543940.1392849006!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/image.jpg

http://img.gmw.cn/imgsports/attachement/jpg/site2/20140220/14feb5e05709146ff54754.jpg

These freaks can't be serious or really democratic if they dress like that. They are self-absorbed brats who show contempt of the public, just like our Occupuppies. If they don't care how they look or act, they insult public opinion right from the start by making a bad first impression.

[Heyduke]

Nobody's laughing at Obama's sanctions now.



As Putin says, there are no gays in Russia.

During World War II, the Nazis blockaded Stalingrad for 900 days. All that while, they endured the bombardment of artillery and heavy bombers. By the end of the siege, few Russian men had survived, and the women came out to fight the Nazis in the streets. On the 23rd of August, 1942, Nazi bombing set off a firestorm in the city which burnt thousands of Russians to a flaky crisp.

Survivors ate soup made from poster glue. Autumn through Spring, they had no heating, and the Russian winter was colder than a witch’s tit. The Stalin regime didn’t bother to record the number of casualties. He waited for the Nazi aggression to ebb. During the Winter Campaign of 1942-43, he sensed weakness in the German offensive and sent a counter-offensive to Stalingrad, which over-ran the tired Nazis.

The Germans were now not only starving, but also running out of ammunition. They continued to resist because they believed that the Soviets would execute them if captured. The Russian counter-offensive killed 60,000 Nazis. Of the 100,000 that were captured, only 6,000 ever returned to Germany.

You do not simply walk into Russia and hold sway. And furthermore... Sanctions? They laugh at sanctions. A Russian welcomes sanctions from the West, for nothing makes him feel more like himself than suffering.

[Mister D]

As Putin says, there are no gays in Russia.

During World War II, the Nazis blockaded Stalingrad for 900 days. All that while, they endured the bombardment of artillery and heavy bombers. By the end of the siege, few Russian men had survived, and the women came out to fight the Nazis in the streets. On the 23rd of August, 1942, Nazi bombing set off a firestorm in the city which burnt thousands of Russians to a flaky crisp.

Survivors ate soup made from poster glue. Autumn through Spring, they had no heating, and the Russian winter was colder than a witch’s tit. The Stalin regime didn’t bother to record the number of casualties. He waited for the Nazi aggression to ebb. During the Winter Campaign of 1942-43, he sensed weakness in the German offensive and sent a counter-offensive to Stalingrad, which over-ran the tired Nazis.

The Germans were now not only starving, but also running out of ammunition. They continued to resist because they believed that the Soviets would execute them if captured. The Russian counter-offensive killed 60,000 Nazis. Of the 100,000 that were captured, only 6,000 ever returned to Germany.

You do not simply walk into Russia and hold sway. And furthermore... Sanctions? They laugh at sanctions. A Russian welcomes sanctions from the West, for nothing makes him feel more like himself than suffering.

You conflated Leningrad with Stalingrad.

[Ethereal]

Since I live in a free country...

Sounds like you live in a fantasy land.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RwdH5DTKRas/TE-g2vLQ08I/AAAAAAAADLE/MctecVV0QHA/s400/incarceration+rate+by+country+chart.gif

http://www.cato.org/raidmap

[Alyosha]

You conflated Leningrad with Stalingrad.

Both cold, renamed cities that were turning points in wars. :)