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View Full Version : Obama to Pitch Afghan Endgame



Captain Obvious
06-20-2011, 07:39 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/20/obama-to-ft-drum-ahead-afghanistan-drawdown-announcement/

WASHINGTON -- President Obama will announce the critical next steps in America's decade-long war in Afghanistan on Wednesday, outlining both a plan to start bringing thousands of U.S. troops home next month and a broader withdrawal blueprint aimed at giving Afghans control of their own security in 2014.

...

GRUMPY
06-21-2011, 09:00 AM
the skinny is that when we leave, they collapse....are we committed for another several decades....if not get out and focus on how best to secure this nation and its overseas assets against the coming assault while droning those boys into oblivion at every opportunity.....obama has clearly demonstrated that he has no desire to win this or the ability to even define winning....he went his first summer without so much as a conversation with his own hand picked commander in theatre and when he finally announced his sort of kinda surge he announced the anticipated exit as well....no one especially the enemy takes his commitment to this war seriously.....

Conley
06-21-2011, 09:10 AM
i really doubt things will be any better by 2014 if the us continues its current policy. there is no foreseeable exit where afghanistan ends up a stable pro-western democracy. may as well leave now for all intents and purposes.

GRUMPY
06-21-2011, 09:43 AM
i really doubt things will be any better by 2014 if the us continues its current policy. there is no foreseeable exit where afghanistan ends up a stable pro-western democracy. may as well leave now for all intents and purposes.

no objection to that, if you are not all in then get out.....with regard to both iraq and afghanistan we have met our moral obligation to leave the country better than we found it....i doubt that in the case of iraq their vision of democracy is quite the same as ours, and it is likely that most in afghanistan have no vision of a democratic republic at all.....

Conley
06-21-2011, 09:49 AM
i really doubt things will be any better by 2014 if the us continues its current policy. there is no foreseeable exit where afghanistan ends up a stable pro-western democracy. may as well leave now for all intents and purposes.

no objection to that, if you are not all in then get out.....with regard to both iraq and afghanistan we have met our moral obligation to leave the country better than we found it....i doubt that in the case of iraq their vision of democracy is quite the same as ours, and it is likely that most in afghanistan have no vision of a democratic republic at all.....


for once i agree with you 100%

maybe that old guy was right about the rapture and the end of the world really is going to happen soon. ;)

i also think that in regards to this 'democracy', let's not beat around the bush, the us will decide who it wants elected like karzai, etc and then that person will be 'elected'. the us will make sure to have a pro-western head of state, but like we've seen in pakistan, that matters not if huge amounts of military and government are in bed with radical islam and terrorist groups.

GRUMPY
06-21-2011, 11:07 AM
i really doubt things will be any better by 2014 if the us continues its current policy. there is no foreseeable exit where afghanistan ends up a stable pro-western democracy. may as well leave now for all intents and purposes.

no objection to that, if you are not all in then get out.....with regard to both iraq and afghanistan we have met our moral obligation to leave the country better than we found it....i doubt that in the case of iraq their vision of democracy is quite the same as ours, and it is likely that most in afghanistan have no vision of a democratic republic at all.....


for once i agree with you 100%

maybe that old guy was right about the rapture and the end of the world really is going to happen soon. ;)

i also think that in regards to this 'democracy', let's not beat around the bush, the us will decide who it wants elected like karzai, etc and then that person will be 'elected'. the us will make sure to have a pro-western head of state, but like we've seen in pakistan, that matters not if huge amounts of military and government are in bed with radical islam and terrorist groups.

it won't matter who we put in power down the road the taliban or some other crazy ban will run that circus.....

Conley
06-21-2011, 11:54 AM
short of killing taliban / al queda , what other goal do we have in afghanistan? the land is of no strategic importance. instead of trying to police and occupy it we should just focus on high level targets, get in, make the kill and get out. just like we did in pakistan to obl...that is how israel deals with their enemies as well. if we're not going to make a full committment to war this is the only way to go imo, and it sure did work with obl.

best option: overwhelming force -- no longer possible since our military is stretched to its breaking point by combat fatigue and multiple engagments

second best option: quick insertion/extraction

worst option: quagmire shit which is the chosen strategy of obama/bush. but make no mistake, companies are doing well thanks to these occupations. there are a lot of contracts for the redevelopment of iraq being handed out.

Mister D
06-21-2011, 12:06 PM
i really doubt things will be any better by 2014 if the us continues its current policy. there is no foreseeable exit where afghanistan ends up a stable pro-western democracy. may as well leave now for all intents and purposes.

no objection to that, if you are not all in then get out.....with regard to both iraq and afghanistan we have met our moral obligation to leave the country better than we found it....i doubt that in the case of iraq their vision of democracy is quite the same as ours, and it is likely that most in afghanistan have no vision of a democratic republic at all.....


I agree about our moral obligation. It's been met and then some. The neocon democracy fetish has got to go. You're right that their vision of representtative gov't will likely be quite different than ours. We shouldn't trying to make carbon copies of western states in the sandbox let alone a moonscape like Afghanistan. It's not going to happen.

GRUMPY
06-21-2011, 12:09 PM
short of killing taliban / al queda , what other goal do we have in afghanistan? the land is of no strategic importance. instead of trying to police and occupy it we should just focus on high level targets, get in, make the kill and get out. just like we did in pakistan to obl...that is how israel deals with their enemies as well. if we're not going to make a full committment to war this is the only way to go imo, and it sure did work with obl.

best option: overwhelming force -- no longer possible since our military is stretched to its breaking point by combat fatigue and multiple engagments

second best option: quick insertion/extraction

worst option: quagmire shit which is the chosen strategy of obama/bush. but make no mistake, companies are doing well thanks to these occupations. there are a lot of contracts for the redevelopment of iraq being handed out.

ok, here is a plan just a plan not the plan; although let me correct you by noting that if israel were to appropriately deal with it's enemies there would be no gaza/west bank debate and iran would be a dust bowl....now, neither the president nor the american people have any interest in or stomach for a continued presence in either iraq or afghanistan....get out....the iraqs are asking us to leave and we are begging them to stay....afghanistan was done back in the day that we turned it over to our so called nato allies.....regardless we have done what we can and are not capable of dragging them out of the stone age....targeted strikes at identified terrorist havens is the best that we can do while securing our own porous borders and ceasing to import terrorist.....did you read re the two iraqis in bowling green ky....part of a refugee program i guess....arrived here in 2009, by the fall of 2009 they were attempting to buy arms to ship home to kill american soldiers....one of these lovelies had been connected via finger prints to an unexploded ied back in 2005.....

Conley
06-21-2011, 12:11 PM
i really doubt things will be any better by 2014 if the us continues its current policy. there is no foreseeable exit where afghanistan ends up a stable pro-western democracy. may as well leave now for all intents and purposes.

no objection to that, if you are not all in then get out.....with regard to both iraq and afghanistan we have met our moral obligation to leave the country better than we found it....i doubt that in the case of iraq their vision of democracy is quite the same as ours, and it is likely that most in afghanistan have no vision of a democratic republic at all.....


I agree about our moral obligation. It's been met and then some. The neocon democracy fetish has got to go. You're right that their vision of representtative gov't will likely be quite different than ours. We shouldn't trying to make carbon copies of western states in the sandbox let alone a moonscape like Afghanistan. It's not going to happen.


"moonscape"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

hilarious and yet still 100% true

Conley
06-21-2011, 12:20 PM
short of killing taliban / al queda , what other goal do we have in afghanistan? the land is of no strategic importance. instead of trying to police and occupy it we should just focus on high level targets, get in, make the kill and get out. just like we did in pakistan to obl...that is how israel deals with their enemies as well. if we're not going to make a full committment to war this is the only way to go imo, and it sure did work with obl.

best option: overwhelming force -- no longer possible since our military is stretched to its breaking point by combat fatigue and multiple engagments

second best option: quick insertion/extraction

worst option: quagmire shit which is the chosen strategy of obama/bush. but make no mistake, companies are doing well thanks to these occupations. there are a lot of contracts for the redevelopment of iraq being handed out.

ok, here is a plan just a plan not the plan; although let me correct you by noting that if israel were to appropriately deal with it's enemies there would be no gaza/west bank debate and iran would be a dust bowl....now, neither the president nor the american people have any interest in or stomach for a continued presence in either iraq or afghanistan....get out....the iraqs are asking us to leave and we are begging them to stay....afghanistan was done back in the day that we turned it over to our so called nato allies.....regardless we have done what we can and are not capable of dragging them out of the stone age....targeted strikes at identified terrorist havens is the best that we can do while securing our own porous borders and ceasing to import terrorist.....did you read re the two iraqis in bowling green ky....part of a refugee program i guess....arrived here in 2009, by the fall of 2009 they were attempting to buy arms to ship home to kill american soldiers....one of these lovelies had been connected via finger prints to an unexploded ied back in 2005.....


did not hear about the iraqis in kentucky, but that does not surprise me in the least. that is where our security needs to be -- here at home, starting with immigration, borders, and ports.

with regard to israel i was referring to the team hit they carried out in dubai. do they have nuclear capabilities? they should not take it upon themselves to glass iran as that would derail the global economy due to the continued oil dependence. they should definitely target and destroy any iran nuclear facilities though. i don't know why the us hasn't already encouraged them to do so, that seems in both of our best interests.

GRUMPY
06-21-2011, 12:38 PM
actually maybe just maybe glassing iran would move this nation to develop of a real energy strategy....nuclear, natural gas, gas/elec, wind and solar where and when appropriate.....energy independence within a decade, the technology, resources and natural resources exist....

Mister D
06-21-2011, 01:04 PM
re KY, I understand the moral compunction that led to the the refugee settlements but c'mon...use your head. You have no idea who you are resettling in the USA. It's not like they are refugees from some war torn area that we have no involvement in.

GRUMPY
06-21-2011, 01:34 PM
re KY, I understand the moral compunction that led to the the refugee settlements but c'mon...use your head. You have no idea who you are resettling in the USA. It's not like they are refugees from some war torn area that we have no involvement in.

while i might understand the moral compunction i am not moved by it and further we had one of these clowns prints....personally i would not be resettling anyone from anywhere and our immigration policy what be based upon what skills and self support they bring to the table....the willingness to engage in manual labor does not count as we have an abundance of capable individuals already hear with nothing to do thanks to obama....

Mister D
06-21-2011, 01:42 PM
re KY, I understand the moral compunction that led to the the refugee settlements but c'mon...use your head. You have no idea who you are resettling in the USA. It's not like they are refugees from some war torn area that we have no involvement in.

while i might understand the moral compunction i am not moved by it and further we had one of these clowns prints....personally i would not be resettling anyone from anywhere and our immigration policy what be based upon what skills and self support they bring to the table....the willingness to engage in manual labor does not count as we have an abundance of capable individuals already hear with nothing to do thanks to obama....


I agree 100% about our immigration policy. It needs to be tailored to our needs, not the world's. That said, this is not quite the same thing but I'm not moved by the moral arguments either because it's just too dangerous. Yeah, it sucks that Iraq is a rough place to live right now but you just can't take the chance of bringing refugees som eor many of whom could be dedcicated enemies of the US.

Conley
06-21-2011, 02:11 PM
and let's remember iraq was a rough place to live for years and years, well before gulf war 1...it is actually probably more peaceful now than in decades. places like that are always going to be brutally violent.

GRUMPY
06-21-2011, 02:49 PM
re KY, I understand the moral compunction that led to the the refugee settlements but c'mon...use your head. You have no idea who you are resettling in the USA. It's not like they are refugees from some war torn area that we have no involvement in.

while i might understand the moral compunction i am not moved by it and further we had one of these clowns prints....personally i would not be resettling anyone from anywhere and our immigration policy what be based upon what skills and self support they bring to the table....the willingness to engage in manual labor does not count as we have an abundance of capable individuals already hear with nothing to do thanks to obama....


I agree 100% about our immigration policy. It needs to be tailored to our needs, not the world's. That said, this is not quite the same thing but I'm not moved by the moral arguments either because it's just too dangerous. Yeah, it sucks that Iraq is a rough place to live right now but you just can't take the chance of bringing refugees som eor many of whom could be dedcicated enemies of the US.

d, there have been more than a few mass graves discovered courtesy of saddam and the boys so it was a rather rough place before we got there.....regardless, this refugee relocation bs is a national security nightmare....

Mister D
06-21-2011, 05:46 PM
re KY, I understand the moral compunction that led to the the refugee settlements but c'mon...use your head. You have no idea who you are resettling in the USA. It's not like they are refugees from some war torn area that we have no involvement in.

while i might understand the moral compunction i am not moved by it and further we had one of these clowns prints....personally i would not be resettling anyone from anywhere and our immigration policy what be based upon what skills and self support they bring to the table....the willingness to engage in manual labor does not count as we have an abundance of capable individuals already hear with nothing to do thanks to obama....


I agree 100% about our immigration policy. It needs to be tailored to our needs, not the world's. That said, this is not quite the same thing but I'm not moved by the moral arguments either because it's just too dangerous. Yeah, it sucks that Iraq is a rough place to live right now but you just can't take the chance of bringing refugees som eor many of whom could be dedcicated enemies of the US.

d, there have been more than a few mass graves discovered courtesy of saddam and the boys so it was a rather rough place before we got there.....regardless, this refugee relocation bs is a national security nightmare....


True. It is the Third World. I suppose it was rough long before our intervention. Anyway, agreed. I'm curious as to who dreams this crap up and who authorizes it?

Conley
06-21-2011, 07:58 PM
re KY, I understand the moral compunction that led to the the refugee settlements but c'mon...use your head. You have no idea who you are resettling in the USA. It's not like they are refugees from some war torn area that we have no involvement in.

while i might understand the moral compunction i am not moved by it and further we had one of these clowns prints....personally i would not be resettling anyone from anywhere and our immigration policy what be based upon what skills and self support they bring to the table....the willingness to engage in manual labor does not count as we have an abundance of capable individuals already hear with nothing to do thanks to obama....


I agree 100% about our immigration policy. It needs to be tailored to our needs, not the world's. That said, this is not quite the same thing but I'm not moved by the moral arguments either because it's just too dangerous. Yeah, it sucks that Iraq is a rough place to live right now but you just can't take the chance of bringing refugees som eor many of whom could be dedcicated enemies of the US.

d, there have been more than a few mass graves discovered courtesy of saddam and the boys so it was a rather rough place before we got there.....regardless, this refugee relocation bs is a national security nightmare....


True. It is the Third World. I suppose it was rough long before our intervention. Anyway, agreed. I'm curious as to who dreams this crap up and who authorizes it?


that is actually a great question and i'd like to know too.