Cops pull gun on kids in a tree fort because they might have been abusing the tree

[Codename Section]

Yes, this is Amerika.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/cop-pulls-gun-kids-building-tree-fort-video/#axzz2y15fhFJD

For Captain Obvious--the link has the video from the local news station covering the story. Yes, it's network. Yes, it's local news. No, it's not a blogger's opinion.


Apparently, its a deadly offense now to abuse a tree in the United States.

[Paperback Writer]

Bloody lovely. What's next? Pulling a gun out on kids playing doctor?

[Kabuki Joe]

Yes, this is Amerika.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/cop-pulls-gun-kids-building-tree-fort-video/#axzz2y15fhFJD

For Captain Obvious--the link has the video from the local news station covering the story. Yes, it's network. Yes, it's local news. No, it's not a blogger's opinion.


Apparently, its a deadly offense now to abuse a tree in the United States.


...in some cities you are not allowed to cut down a tree ON YOUR PROPERTY...in your own yard...I've heard talk about that where I live...I understand the importance of trees but if the city wants more trees, PLANT THEM ON CITY PROPERTY...

[Refugee]

Yes, this is Amerika.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/cop-pulls-gun-kids-building-tree-fort-video/#axzz2y15fhFJD

For Captain Obvious--the link has the video from the local news station covering the story. Yes, it's network. Yes, it's local news. No, it's not a blogger's opinion.


Apparently, its a deadly offense now to abuse a tree in the United States.

Quite right as well, equal rights for trees, I say! :laugh:

If you were from the UK this would barely get a mention, we're so used to it.

The funniest, (in a sad way), was the UK story several years ago of two boys jumping into a river from a small cliff and finding the water was only inches deep. When the police interviewed them in hospital and asked why they'd jumped, they replied, "because there wasn't a sign telling us not to"!

If you produce a dumbed down ignorant society, these things happen, even with the police.

[Paperback Writer]

Quite right as well, equal rights for trees, I say! :laugh:

If you were from the UK this would barely get a mention, we're so used to it.

The funniest, (in a sad way), was the UK story several years ago of two boys jumping into a river from a small cliff and finding the water was only inches deep. When the police interviewed them in hospital and asked why they'd jumped, they replied, "because there wasn't a sign telling us not to"!

If you produce a dumbed down ignorant society, these things happen, even with the police.


Was this near Birmingham?

[Refugee]

Was this near Birmingham?

Can't remember now, but Brummies aren't the brightest.

[Paperback Writer]

Can't remember now, but Brummies aren't the brightest.

Clearly they are not. I think they drink the canal water.

[Peter1469]

...in some cities you are not allowed to cut down a tree ON YOUR PROPERTY...in your own yard...I've heard talk about that where I live...I understand the importance of trees but if the city wants more trees, PLANT THEM ON CITY PROPERTY...

Usually you just have to get a permit. But some places will only give them out if the tree is diseased or a fall threat. I believe that my mother had to get permits to cut two trees down in her backyard. But those trees were tall enough to seriously damage the neighbor's house if they fell in that direction.

[zelmo1234]

Well Trees are people too, you know!:sunny:

[Captain Obvious]

@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) - yeah, this is pretty common. It happens dozens of times in neighborhoods everywhere.

You have an agenda, you promote it. That's fine, but you as a military guy, of all people should understand that it's easy to take outliers and extrapolate them to the population and make the assumption that it's representative - like you do, and people could easily do that (and do in a lot of cases like Veitnam) with our armed forces.

And neither are right, to condemn a population for doing their jobs - an often thankless job, risking and giving up their lives daily for common people. It's not right, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Codename Section]

@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) - yeah, this is pretty common. It happens dozens of times in neighborhoods everywhere.

You have an agenda, you promote it. That's fine, but you as a military guy, of all people should understand that it's easy to take outliers and extrapolate them to the population and make the assumption that it's representative - like you do, and people could easily do that (and do in a lot of cases like Veitnam) with our armed forces.

And neither are right, to condemn a population for doing their jobs - an often thankless job, risking and giving up their lives daily for common people. It's not right, you should be ashamed of yourself.


Just a question, but why do you ignore the statistics of more and more of these events occurring each year? Everyone and their brother has whipped out stuff from the FBI, ALCU, Forbes even.

[Captain Obvious]

Just a question, but why do you ignore the statistics of more and more of these events occurring each year? Everyone and their brother has whipped out stuff from the FBI, ALCU, Forbes even.

Do you understand those stats or are you simply wanting to throw cops under the bus?

[Peter1469]

Cops are crossing the line more and more as we militarize them.

[Codename Section]

Do you understand those stats or are you simply wanting to throw cops under the bus?

What's there to understand about increasing incidents of police swat use while crime itself has gone down? They should be proportionate to each other.

[Captain Obvious]

What's there to understand about increasing incidents of police swat use while crime itself has gone down? They should be proportionate to each other.

Kinda like increased military ops overseas when the need was low except for neocons. So you're cool if people shamelessly throw you guys under the bus then?

Pathetic.

[Terminal Lance]

Kinda like increased military ops overseas when the need was low except for neocons. So you're cool if people shamelessly throw you guys under the bus then?

Pathetic.


It's actually like how we had to change our rules of engagement after a bunch of marines and soldiers started shooting everyone just to be safe. Now, we require a proper engagement where we know we are under imminent threat.

Cops don't have the same rules of engagement they had 10 years ago but should. My uncle is a cop in Boston and he says its gone nuts, too.

[Dr. Who]

In what world is it OK to pull a gun on an unarmed child, even if you think they are committing an act of vandalism? There is absolutely no excuse for a police officer make a child think that he or she will be shot and killed by the police and further to speak to that child in vulgarities. This only creates a lifelong disdain for law enforcement.

[Captain Obvious]

In what world is it OK to pull a gun on an unarmed child, even if you think they are committing an act of vandalism? There is absolutely no excuse for a police officer make a child think that he or she will be shot and killed by the police and further to speak to that child in vulgarities. This only creates a lifelong disdain for law enforcement.

In no world is that appropriate.

Just like in no world is it appropriate to blame all gun owners on one random psychopath in Connecticut who shoots up a school.

These anti-cop guys, especially the military background guys who are joined at the hip in a sort of way with cops, who condemn all of them for outlying incidents and trends is pathetic.

Cops who do their jobs, who put their lives on the line, who die every day doing their duty deserve respect - just as much respect as our troops who do basically the same thing.

I won't sit here and watch this pathetic display of scapegoating from those who should know better and not say anything about it. I'm thoroughly disgusted by it.

[Terminal Lance]

In no world is that appropriate.

Just like in no world is it appropriate to blame all gun owners on one random psychopath in Connecticut who shoots up a school.

These anti-cop guys, especially the military background guys who are joined at the hip in a sort of way with cops, who condemn all of them for outlying incidents and trends is pathetic.

Cops who do their jobs, who put their lives on the line, who die every day doing their duty deserve respect - just as much respect as our troops who do basically the same thing.

I won't sit here and watch this pathetic display of scapegoating from those who should know better and not say anything about it. I'm thoroughly disgusted by it.


I kinda resent you saying I'm anti-cop when you don't know me. I'm from the Boston area, I'm Irish, and my family on my mother's side are all in the Boston PD.

It is not about the cop. It is about the rules. Even a good cop now has bullshit rules of engagement.

[Captain Obvious]

I kinda resent you saying I'm anti-cop when you don't know me. I'm from the Boston area, I'm Irish, and my family on my mother's side are all in the Boston PD.

It is not about the cop. It is about the rules. Even a good cop now has bullshit rules of engagement.

I never expressed that you were anti-cop, but you tell me. Freudian slip maybe?

[Terminal Lance]

I never expressed that you were anti-cop, but you tell me. Freudian slip maybe?

Weren't you responding to me? If not, sorry.

You have never been in line of duty job, that much I can tell. Cops and the military are given rules and procedures. Theirs have gotten more aggressive about threats while ours got lighter so we could win hearts and minds.

The cop doesn't make the rule, the commissioner does. You could be a cop that loves kids but your procedures say "point your weapon if x happens" and they'll point it at a kid.

The rules need to change. That's all I am saying. There are good cops out there. A lot of them are in my family.

[Captain Obvious]

Weren't you responding to me? If not, sorry.

You have never been in line of duty job, that much I can tell. Cops and the military are given rules and procedures. There's have gotten more aggressive about threats while ours got lighter so we could win hearts and minds.

The cop doesn't make the rule, the commissioner does. You could be a cop that loves kids but your procedures say "point your weapon if x happens" and they'll point it at a kid.

The rules need to change. That's all I am saying. There are good cops out there. A lot of them are in my family.

No I haven't, nor do I believe that puts me at any discussion disadvantage on the issue to any material extent.

Keep in mind as I pointed out earlier that the frontier of homeland protection has changed. Engaging overseas has questionable intentions while protecting the streets and shores of the country is really the primary concern.

Wouldn't it make sense that changes in strategies on our soil make sense considering jurisdiction? It would be one explanation that I would come up with explaining the heightened sensitivity.

[Dr. Who]

In no world is that appropriate.

Just like in no world is it appropriate to blame all gun owners on one random psychopath in Connecticut who shoots up a school.

These anti-cop guys, especially the military background guys who are joined at the hip in a sort of way with cops, who condemn all of them for outlying incidents and trends is pathetic.

Cops who do their jobs, who put their lives on the line, who die every day doing their duty deserve respect - just as much respect as our troops who do basically the same thing.

I won't sit here and watch this pathetic display of scapegoating from those who should know better and not say anything about it. I'm thoroughly disgusted by it.

I would never say that all of law enforcement is bad - I'm sure most are hard working dedicated officers, but there is a disturbing trend. I don't know if it is caused by new police procedure, or an inability to get good candidates, but I'm seeing too many people, especially the mentally ill, being shot and killed by police officers for nothing. I think this is an emerging problem, and while this case may involve an outlier a-hole cop, in general I see an increasing tendency for officers to use deadly force in situations where they would not have done so in the past. That is at least a legitimate concern, particularly if you have elderly parents and relatives or people with mental illness in your family.

[Terminal Lance]

No I haven't, nor do I believe that puts me at any discussion disadvantage on the issue to any material extent.

Keep in mind as I pointed out earlier that the frontier of homeland protection has changed. Engaging overseas has questionable intentions while protecting the streets and shores of the country is really the primary concern.

Wouldn't it make sense that changes in strategies on our soil make sense considering jurisdiction? It would be one explanation that I would come up with explaining the heightened sensitivity.

No, it should be the opposite. We were kinder to the enemy than cops are here. I think that needs to change and so do a lot of cops.

[Captain Obvious]

No, it should be the opposite. We were kinder to the enemy than cops are here. I think that needs to change and so do a lot of cops.

Sure, but who's the enemy?

Here that is.

[Terminal Lance]

Sure, but who's the enemy?

Here that is.

That's the point. The American people are not the enemy.

[Captain Obvious]

That's the point. The American people are not the enemy.

Who are the American people?

We can go around and around on this, I think you should understand the point by now.

You have to look at the entire picture, not just snippets like some with agendas do.

[Dr. Who]

Who are the American people?

We can go around and around on this, I think you should understand the point by now.

You have to look at the entire picture, not just snippets like some with agendas do.

I can't vouch for the veracity of this article, but it does seem to account for the myriad of news stories that I have seen: http://www.salon.com/2012/12/10/half_of_people_shot_by_police_are_mentally_ill_inv estigation_finds/

I'm sure that some cases are borderline, but if even half the number reported in this article are truly mentally ill, it is very disturbing.

[Archer0915]

Shit I am a murderer! And I have a few pines and a sweet guy to fell:( Oh shit I have to cut the grass, prune the grape vine and trim the azaleas.

I will be ready for a militarized swat team in their armored vehicle to come and shoot my dog and son before beating me to death!

[Akula]

More unarmed, innocent citizens are killed by cops every year than cops killed, period.
The average is running around 500 unarmed citizens per year. Go look it up.
Innocent, unarmed citizens...never mind peoples pets they get off on shooting lately.

It isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs...Truck drivers, farmers, fishermen and iron workers have much more dangerous jobs than "cops"...and they don't get to beat people up or arrest them..or shoot them (and generally get away with it) if THEY have a "bad day".

It's a mental illness they all seem to acquire....the arrogance of power.
Starting when he comes on the force as hardly more than a kid, a cop can immediately tell people what to do...often for the first time in his life. He's special. He can make U-turns that others can't, speed if he feels like it, stop traffic, park anywhere he wants, any time he wants, give tickets, arrest people on a whim.
People thirty years his senior have to do what he says. ...and in his stunted adult life he has never known anything else.
He "gets to" carry a gun on and off duty and shoot it if he feels like it...All he has to do is say "I feared for my life"..or "I thought he had a gun". Those are the magic words.

If the only tool you have is a hammer, soon everything starts to look like a nail. If police and prosecutors are your only tools, sooner or later everyone gets treated like a criminal. It has nothing to do with law and order or public safety..It's just business.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Modern Liberals have completely done away with the value of a human life.

Human, polar bear, tree, all the same to those people.

Except fetuses, fetuses are separate organisms from the former three completely, of course, we know this because modern Liberals tell us all the time that they aren't human.

These kids just aren't important anymore, just targets for an overstepping government, sorry to inform you all. But that tree... Gotta defend the trees. Anyone who touches trees wants the oceans to flood the earth and polar bears to lose their icebergs and dirty air and water.

Their arguments are really pathetic, in case some of you haven't caught on yet.

/Edit: If you want those kids to be important in the eyes of Liberals, dress them in pink like queers, put them on the government dole, and give them blackface.

They'll be on the critically endangered and protected species lists in no time.


No arrests were made and the officer who pulled the gun on the child is still on the job, though an excessive force complaint has been filed.


Wonderful. Now we get to spend my tax dollars on years of red tape while this fucking PIG makes his way to tenure, all to the laughter from the left. Another child shown who's boss: Big brother.

[Codename Section]

More unarmed, innocent citizens are killed by cops every year than cops killed, period.
The average is running around 500 unarmed citizens per year. Go look it up.
Innocent, unarmed citizens...never mind peoples pets they get off on shooting lately.

It isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs...Truck drivers, farmers, fishermen and iron workers have much more dangerous jobs than "cops"...and they don't get to beat people up or arrest them..or shoot them (and generally get away with it) if THEY have a "bad day".

It's a mental illness they all seem to acquire....the arrogance of power.
Starting when he comes on the force as hardly more than a kid, a cop can immediately tell people what to do...often for the first time in his life. He's special. He can make U-turns that others can't, speed if he feels like it, stop traffic, park anywhere he wants, any time he wants, give tickets, arrest people on a whim.
People thirty years his senior have to do what he says. ...and in his stunted adult life he has never known anything else.
He "gets to" carry a gun on and off duty and shoot it if he feels like it...All he has to do is say "I feared for my life"..or "I thought he had a gun". Those are the magic words.

If the only tool you have is a hammer, soon everything starts to look like a nail. If police and prosecutors are your only tools, sooner or later everyone gets treated like a criminal. It has nothing to do with law and order or public safety..It's just business.







Akula

credit where credit is due. Good post.

[Akula]

A friend cut and pasted this article called "The Collapse of a Police State", by a man named Eric Garces. I don't know where it came from or when it was published/written but it seems relevant.


The typical pattern of events as a police state collapses is that an oppressed people tend rise up and extract vengeance from the most visible sign of their oppressors.

In near history the Egyptian National Police were widely feared as a brutally corrupt organization. Within days of establishing a numerical superiority on the streets, protestors began beating police officers to death.
Those who were known, were dragged from their houses and murdered in front of their families. The fear of the average cop in Egypt was such that many discarded their uniforms and fled for their lives.

Later, that government was forced to acknowledge their police forces loss of authority by formally disbanding the National Police.
Do public sympathies lie with the oppressed people who suffered terribly under these petty tyrants or the policemen who were supposedly just doing their jobs?
Perhaps this explains the amazingly swift and violent crackdowns in American cities, lest the protestors begin to overwhelm the police.

After all, at their greatest concentration they're really only a tiny fraction of the populace.
However, this is the normal pattern in history as police states inevitably loose their grip.

In July and August of 1944 a retreating Wehrmacht left a power vacuum in its place. Well supplied with small arms by the Allies, the Maquis extracted a terrible price upon the local Gendarme who could not escape. Many were simply "following orders" but not very many resistance fighters believed that.

Remember my explanation for cops just doing their jobs?
If you willingly enforce absurd laws, which the citizenry knows to be absurd, you will generate hostility.
Society holds this in check as long as people fear the State, but once the control gegins to slip a little...

For weeks until advancing British and US forces could put a stop to it, there were French cops swinging from lamp posts, found dead in ditches or worse. Sometimes entire families were murdered in the rampage.

I shed no tears for those who got what they deserved.
Indeed, Oath Keepers is in part a program designed to teach cops just what I explained.

Many of these petty tyrants aren't well educated enough or are too damn arrogant to understand the wider reaching consequences of what they do.
Worse yet, many of them don't believe they will ever answer for their crimes.

In suburbia, or semi rural areas like where we live, they are still somewhat respected and the citizens have yet to realize what is about to be unleashed upon them.
However in the largest cities, particularly the ones with strict gun control laws - these police officers are despised, because the people are not only denied the tools to defend themselves, the liberal establishment has also made protecting your property and even self defense a crime in order to promote reliance upon the state for protection.

A prime example of this is the recent assault and hospitalization of a Philadelphia police officer. Beaten on a train platform as dozens of witnesses refused to hear his cries for help.
The media attempted to ignore this story but it was widely available online with the associated commentary quite illustrative of just how the average person really feels.


All of this was planned. Our schools - dumbed down, our families and moral standards degraded. Crime allowed to flourish while simultaneously we have been conditioned to accept that the police will protect us.
Self reliance has been steadily criminalized and the benefit of the doubt frequently given to the perpetrator and less on the victims.

How is this remedied? Sadly, the only way it has ever turned around is collapse. History shows that once tyranny gains a foothold, this is the only way its ever corrected, as the bullies in uniform will mostly be dead or in hiding within 48 hours of the collapse.
When the urban rage that has been seething for generations against the police boils over, what else can happen?

Study the history of law enforcement in a tyranny when the system crashes.
Don't take my word for it. What happened to the New Orleans Police Department in the 48 hours after Hurricane Katrina? Most of them were gone, concerned about their families. But how many came back and those who did, what did they do by the end of the week? Begin confiscating law abiding citizens firearms. Why? Re-read the above.

...and now perhaps, dear readers, you can see why our government has been feeding local police depts. million and millions (billions) in military hardware. You can see why the legal mechanisms of a police state have been put into place. You can see why our govt is calling anyone who stores more than a week of food a "terrorist" and if you can't see this yet, you'll surely recognize it when you become a victim of the police.

by Eric Garces


When our gov't finally gets desperate enough to hold on to power at any cost and makes gun ownership illegal, who do you think they're going to send to collect the guns? The cops.

Under attack: Depth of federal arms race should surprise, shock citizenry

http://watchdog.org/136244/federal-law-enforcement/


EDIT:
sorry for the link not working...I don't know what's wrong. I'm looking at the article right now, though.

[Max Rockatansky]

In what world is it OK to pull a gun on an unarmed child, even if you think they are committing an act of vandalism? There is absolutely no excuse for a police officer make a child think that he or she will be shot and killed by the police and further to speak to that child in vulgarities. This only creates a lifelong disdain for law enforcement.
It's not appropriate. It's also, IMO, rare. The only reason this is in the news is because a dumbass cop was so paranoid he had his gun drawn while approaching a group of kids.

The hundreds of other incidents were the police were called about kids playing go unnoticed because nothing happened. "You kids stop that and go home!" "Yessir". Story over.

Just as this one cop overreacted, I think many others are doing the same with this story. We're not a police state. What we are is a 24/7 news state where anything and everything that could possibly be controversial is reported.

In a nation of 310+ Million Americans if the worst thing that happened today was a cop overreacted by drawing his gun before approaching a couple kids building a tree house, I'll take it. Things could be much, much worse.

[Terminal Lance]

It's not appropriate. It's also, IMO, rare. The only reason this is in the news is because a dumbass cop was so paranoid he had his gun drawn while approaching a group of kids.

It's not rare anymore. It's only rare in the context of crime also being rare. Of police stops, police warrants, etc it's not rare at all.

The police now get grants and equipment if they submit processes and procedures that conform to the recommended guidelines set by the federal government. This started around 2005-2006. That's when the rise in this behavior began. One of my uncles is retiring from the PD because he said things changed too much for him and he can't police the way he wants to anymore.

[Akula]

Great little tongue in cheek article


How to Serve a Warrant 1972 versus Today

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/how-to-serve-a-warrant-1972-versus-today-by-lt-harry-thomas/
1972;
1) The warrant officer at your station gives you a warrant for someone who lives on your beat. It’s for an old drug possession beef. The suspect has no criminal history. Ho-hum.
http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Police_Knock-300x168.png (http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Police_Knock.png) (Source: WCNC Charlotte)

2) You go to the location. You knock on the door. If no one answers, you leave and come back another time. If your man answers the door, you either arrest him or cite him to court. If you know he’s there (TV is on, curtains move as he peeks out the window at you, etc.) but he won’t answer the door, you call another car to watch the back while you go in the front and get him. If he submits, fine. If he resists you thump him (tasers are years in the future). If he goes for a weapon you shoot him.
Fairly simple, no?

Read the rest of the article for how it's done these days.



Then take a brief look at these links if you have a second. Very enlightening.
http://www.policestateusa.com/


http://www.policecrimes.com/

http://www.policemisconduct.net/

[MrJimmyDale]

The honest cops are just as guilty as the dirty cops because they let bad things go on. If someone at my work does something stupid I correct them. I get corrected when I do something wrong at work. If my buddy screws up I will call him out on it. If I do something stupid he will call me out on it.

If "good" cops are turning their eyes away and not calling the assholes out that are making all of them look bad.....fuck 'em.....they are no better than the pieces of shit.

I hate midgets and cops......

[Polecat]

I am not any sort of criminal so I have no reason to fear the police. But I do.

[Akula]

I am not any sort of criminal so I have no reason to fear the police. But I do.

"Criminality" often has little to do with how police mistreat citizens.

[Max Rockatansky]

It's not rare anymore. It's only rare in the context of crime also being rare. Of police stops, police warrants, etc it's not rare at all.

The police now get grants and equipment if they submit processes and procedures that conform to the recommended guidelines set by the federal government. This started around 2005-2006. That's when the rise in this behavior began. One of my uncles is retiring from the PD because he said things changed too much for him and he can't police the way he wants to anymore.

Disagreed, but I fully support making noise about it as if it was. It's the best way to educate the public on being aware of the possible consequences. This, the same public which was so quick to support the Patriot Act, and which is now having some buyer's remorse on that act.

If we don't fight for our own freedom, who will?

[Akula]

Sure, sure, tough guy..whatever you say.:rollseyes:

[Codename Section]

Sure, sure, tough guy..whatever you say.:rollseyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_militias_in_Iraq

http://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.41376.1273625297!/image/3651252427.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/3651252427.jpg

[Akula]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_militias_in_Iraq

http://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.41376.1273625297!/image/3651252427.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/3651252427.jpg


Not sure I get the point of your picture?

[Green Arrow]

@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) - yeah, this is pretty common. It happens dozens of times in neighborhoods everywhere.

You have an agenda, you promote it. That's fine, but you as a military guy, of all people should understand that it's easy to take outliers and extrapolate them to the population and make the assumption that it's representative - like you do, and people could easily do that (and do in a lot of cases like Veitnam) with our armed forces.

And neither are right, to condemn a population for doing their jobs - an often thankless job, risking and giving up their lives daily for common people. It's not right, you should be ashamed of yourself.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/fuck-the-police.jpg

[Codename Section]

Not sure I get the point of your picture?

Sorry, wrong thread. I was up all night.

[Akula]

Sorry, wrong thread. I was up all night.

All good.

[Codename Section]

Disagreed, but I fully support making noise about it as if it was. It's the best way to educate the public on being aware of the possible consequences. This, the same public which was so quick to support the Patriot Act, and which is now having some buyer's remorse on that act.

If we don't fight for our own freedom, who will?

Why do you "disagree"? Do you think the ACLU, Forbes, the Economist, Rutherford Institute, CATO institute, CNN, and Time are lying with their statistics?

[Max Rockatansky]

Why do you "disagree"? Do you think the ACLU, Forbes, the Economist, Rutherford Institute, CATO institute, CNN, and Time are lying with their statistics?

A few years ago I read a study about a "date rape awareness" seminar was presented at a college. Guess happened over the following weeks? Yup, date rape went up. Some may believe this means seminars cause date rape. Most people probably realize that the percentage of date rapes remained the same but, due to increased awareness, the reporting went up. This includes reporting as "date rape" incidents which weren't really date rape.

CNN is 34 years old this June. We've been living in a society of 24/7 news for longer than some members of this forum have been alive. We've been living with digital cameras for less time and the ubiquitous cell phone camera for less. Without them, Youtube wouldn't exist.

Now, does this mean the incidents of police excesses has gone up or simply that, due to a combination of public awareness on the issue and tech, we are simply more aware of more and more instances of where these incidents have happened?

I remember a funny bit by Chris Rock being stopped by the police in a car driven by a white friend. I couldn't find it, but did find this one. The main point being is that some people are aware there are assholes among the police for far longer than others. It's nothing new. Just the awareness is new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65zXlytv01c