Do men feel more pressured to be "traditional males" or "metrosexuals"?

[Codename Section]

Men,

I've been told that I'm more indoctrinated towards being a manly-warrior type than the type who uses special body wash, hair products, and likes to cry.

How do you feel on the indoctrination? Do you feel society wants you to be a manly-man or a metrosexual?

This is for men to answer about how we feel. Women want to know. Let us talk and you read.

[Terminal Lance]

I come from a super liberal, standard New England Catholic family. Guns are scary. Joining the military is a no-no (must go to college). My mother and sister's happiest day ever was being invited to a gay wedding. They even did that standing mass to protest no female priests. I was always told it would be ok if I turned out to be gay and I never got to play with any traditional guy toys except for cars and transformers.

So I joined the military.

[Peter1469]

Well, I do what I do and don't really care what women say what they want. I mean with how I act. I know first hand (as a witness) that if you go metro-sexual a real woman will get disgusted pretty quick. Real women need a rock.

[Peter1469]

Awesome!


I come from a super liberal, standard New England Catholic family. Guns are scary. Joining the military is a no-no (must go to college). My mother and sister's happiest day ever was being invited to a gay wedding. They even did that standing mass to protest no female priests. I was always told it would be ok if I turned out to be gay and I never got to play with any traditional guy toys except for cars and transformers.

So I joined the military.

[Green Arrow]

Definitely metro.

[Terminal Lance]

Women always say we're pressured to be a traditional male while they're pressuring us to be like their gay best friend.

[Spectre]

There's a pressure nowadays to force males to be metrosexual. To be passive and compliant to both women and the state, like 'pyjama-boy' in the Obamacare ad, to be bland and have no strong, distinctive personality, not have no vigorous, questioning, questing intellect, to have no powerful emotions other than the pathetic ones...in short, to be good little liberal progressives.

Funny, a couple of my friends sometimes accuse me of being somewhat 'metrosexual' because I like fancy-schmantzy coffees from Starbucks and other highfalutin' cafes, enjoy and am a student of fine wines, beers and spirits, and am a sharp dresser. I'm also a vegetarian [lacto-ovo, NOT a vegan] which is a BIG no-no in macho circles!:laugh:

But that's the limit of my metrosexuality.

[Terminal Lance]

I'll say this I got sex quicker as a jarhead than as a college freshman. Women like warrior types. Even the ones that say they hate them. Pretty much, especially those women.

[Spectre]

...oh, and I have a real traditional Basque beret that I actually wear sometimes. That might or might not be a metrosexual attribute, but that's probably more hipster than metrosexual.:cool2:

[Spectre]

I'll say this I got sex quicker as a jarhead than as a college freshman. Women like warrior types. Even the ones that say they hate them. Pretty much, especially those women.

I think there might be a lot of truth to this. Women may spout all the progressivist feminist crap that Wimmin's Studies professorettes have crammed down their throats, but when it comes to ancient atavistic drives like sex, old archetypes always take over and real men will always have the advantage when the chips are down.

[Terminal Lance]

It's like that chick porn, 50 Shades of Gray and Twilight. A dude that smacks her around and tells her what to do and a vampire that orders her around and kills her--this is what women like.

My sister is a straight up progressive and when I pointed this out she gets mad.

[Chris]

Men,

I've been told that I'm more indoctrinated towards being a manly-warrior type than the type who uses special body wash, hair products, and likes to cry.

How do you feel on the indoctrination? Do you feel society wants you to be a manly-man or a metrosexual?

This is for men to answer about how we feel. Women want to know. Let us talk and you read.



Polly misuses the word indoctrination. Indoctrination is deliberate, it is teaching, training, brainwashing, whatever. Traditions, norms, social institutions, these are the defining elements of society, perhaps even culture, they are not designed, not deliberate, though I suppose one could try and choose whether to follow them or go against the grain.

[Spectre]

My sister is a straight up progressive and when I pointed this out she gets mad.

Progressives ALWAYS get angry when confronted with an ineluctable truth, I have an older brother just like that.

[Kabuki Joe]

I think there might be a lot of truth to this. Women may spout all the progressivist feminist crap that Wimmin's Studies professorettes have crammed down their throats, but when it comes to ancient atavistic drives like sex, old archetypes always take over and real men will always have the advantage when the chips are down.


...my wife likes that she feels safe walking down the street with me...I'm asshole male and proud...

[Kabuki Joe]

It's like that chick porn, 50 Shades of Gray and Twilight. A dude that smacks her around and tells her what to do and a vampire that orders her around and kills her--this is what women like.

My sister is a straight up progressive and when I pointed this out she gets mad.


...there's a message in that series of movies...all chics like bad boys and what's worse then a vampire?...and then they tell everyone "but I can change him" because chics are super human and the will of a chic is undeniable...when that doesn't work, they call the police and get a restraining order...

[Terminal Lance]

I went to schools in Massachusetts so I got to learn that it was ok if I wanted to touch another guy and I also learned that it was ok if I felt different on the inside than the outside. We were told about gay sex and straight sex in a room full of guys, so I got to be around potential sex mates that were guys but not potential sex mates that were girls. I learned shit I never wanted to know about just so that I wouldn't feel guilty if I thought about it.

My high school teachers my senior year tried to discourage all of us from joining the military. They also explained to us that you don't have to be violent to be manly.

Guns in my state were ONLY for hunting and you could only have certain types of guns.

If you were a traditional male that was a terrible thing to be. I think part of not only choosing the military but choosing the marines was just to be rebellious.

[Captain Obvious]

I am who I am, you can take it or leave it.

I stopped trying to be something I'm not a long fucking time ago.

[Terminal Lance]

I am who I am, you can take it or leave it.

I stopped trying to be something I'm not a long fucking time ago.

Right. We all are.

It's more a question from another thread. Do you feel society pressures you to be "macho" in 2014?

[kilgram]

Men,

I've been told that I'm more indoctrinated towards being a manly-warrior type than the type who uses special body wash, hair products, and likes to cry.

How do you feel on the indoctrination? Do you feel society wants you to be a manly-man or a metrosexual?

This is for men to answer about how we feel. Women want to know. Let us talk and you read.
I've never asked myself such things. Seriously, I don't care. However traditional man from my mindset is equivalent to sexist and I don't tolerate well that kind of thinking.

Men must be as they want to be, but defending tolerance and equality.

Comments that I've read in these forums and others in the line of women should be in the kitchen are absolutely intolerable.

In conclusion, there are men that they will like going shaved,... and other that they will like body hair. I am one of them that I don't like the hair in any part except the head.

Have I answered the question?

[Archer0915]

Men,

I've been told that I'm more indoctrinated towards being a manly-warrior type than the type who uses special body wash, hair products, and likes to cry.

How do you feel on the indoctrination? Do you feel society wants you to be a manly-man or a metrosexual?

This is for men to answer about how we feel. Women want to know. Let us talk and you read.

I is what I is.

Was I indoctrinated? Let me see... No, not by my parents. Society and my observations formed me.

Soap or body wash? Combo shampoo/body wash. it is faster!
I prefer all cotton because that oil base fabric makes my nuts sweat.
Boxers or briefs? Dont matter as long as they are comfortable.

Pistol or revolver? Revolver because they are more forgiving.

Auto or manual action long gun? Manual action because they are generally more powerful and accurate. Rate of fire is nice but heads exploding makes a bigger impact than led flying all over the place.

I do not drink beer, stout only!

Mixed drink? Scotch and Red stag or scotch mixed with ice.

[Captain Obvious]

Right. We all are.

It's more a question from another thread. Do you feel society pressures you to be "macho" in 2014?

Nope

[darroll]

Humans are like cats, we have male, female and it people.

[Archer0915]

Nope

And yes. it depends on so many things. It can be down to race in some areas, what side of the tracks, your name...

Quite a bit of it is in the DNA and breeding.

[Paperback Writer]

It's different when you're English, but I suppose the short answer is that we are not at all pressured to be a traditional male. We are pressured to be a liberal male.

It's why football players, hooligans, and cockneys have such appeal. There was an IT Crowd show, one of my favs, where Moss and Roy learn to speak like "real men". They bought an online translator and everything.

American "males" are looked down on as dumb and cowboys and whatnot. Scottish men are a bit, as well. Deep down, however, there's a bit of envy. Codename came for a holiday and my female coworkers were terribly excited to have (this is an actual quote) a "proper man" around, so I do think something's missing from the equation they're giving us today.

[Kabuki Joe]

I've never asked myself such things. Seriously, I don't care. However traditional man from my mindset is equivalent to sexist and I don't tolerate well that kind of thinking.

Men must be as they want to be, but defending tolerance and equality.

Comments that I've read in these forums and others in the line of women should be in the kitchen are absolutely intolerable.

In conclusion, there are men that they will like going shaved,... and other that they will like body hair. I am one of them that I don't like the hair in any part except the head.

Have I answered the question?


...I thought you were a woman...are you gay?...that might explain your feminist ideals...

[kilgram]

...I thought you were a woman...are you gay?...that might explain your feminist ideals...
I am heterosexual.

[Guerilla]

I was definitely raised as a traditional male. And I actually liked it more being a "tough guy". I probably wouldn't get along with you too well if your a pansy. I can remember growing up and if I would cry, family would tell me "your a soldier, now hush that shit up". My uncle taught me how to fight, but no one taught my little sister. And if one of my cousins or something acted feminine, or cried/whined/complained to often, they were ridiculed for being a fag or a lil bitch.

So it was pretty traditional, I haven't changed much. Still manly as can be :cool2:

I don't really feel pressure though to be macho in 2014. In fact, they expect you to be more girly now. For instance, these days, it's all the metro guys getting all the girls. The poser/goth/emo kids that where skinny jeans and cuts themselves for show. That's what society wants these days.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Progressives ALWAYS get angry when confronted with an ineluctable truth, I have an older brother just like that.
Spectre my own mom is just like that. It's heartbreaking. Ravi on here is like that too.

[Newpublius]

Well, where I notice it is on child rearing. Someday they'll put me 6' under, until then you'll find me 3' from my kids. I'm really into it but by and large 'society' kind've frowns on male child rearing particularly when one is a large male. First off, females presumptively do not trust males around their children, like in a story, I actually really LOVE seeing babies because I really do think their cute, but I am aware of the female resistance to a male approaching and commenting on the cuteness of her baby, so when I do, I keep my distance of course.

I also bucked some trends too, for instance I was ABSOLUTELY at the baby shower and of course traditionally this is a female event. Dealing with daycare, that's me, dealing with the local public school (my son has a speech delay and may qualify for pre-K 3's for speech thereapy)....that's me.....so there's many things I do with respect to child care that most men don't do. My friend even called me 'Mr. Mom' and I was a little peeved at him for doing that since I'm NOT a stay at home dad....but there is at least SOME pressure, but the way I see it, I don't care that much, as far as I'm concerned, my children are the only thing in life I've done that means anything to me.

[Peter1469]

Going to college after 4 years in the army (with combat). The girls worshiped me. I was a benevolent god.


I'll say this I got sex quicker as a jarhead than as a college freshman. Women like warrior types. Even the ones that say they hate them. Pretty much, especially those women.

[Kabuki Joe]

I am heterosexual.


...I find it odd that a Spanish male would think like you...Spanish are very "machismo" and you don't fit that at all...next thing you will tell me is bullfighting is wrong and then the jig is up...

[Kabuki Joe]

Well, where I notice it is on child rearing. Someday they'll put me 6' under, until then you'll find me 3' from my kids. I'm really into it but by and large 'society' kind've frowns on male child rearing particularly when one is a large male. First off, females presumptively do not trust males around their children, like in a story, I actually really LOVE seeing babies because I really do think their cute, but I am aware of the female resistance to a male approaching and commenting on the cuteness of her baby, so when I do, I keep my distance of course.

I also bucked some trends too, for instance I was ABSOLUTELY at the baby shower and of course traditionally this is a female event. Dealing with daycare, that's me, dealing with the local public school (my son has a speech delay and may qualify for pre-K 3's for speech thereapy)....that's me.....so there's many things I do with respect to child care that most men don't do. My friend even called me 'Mr. Mom' and I was a little peeved at him for doing that since I'm NOT a stay at home dad....but there is at least SOME pressure, but the way I see it, I don't care that much, as far as I'm concerned, my children are the only thing in life I've done that means anything to me.


...I used to work with a kid, very masculine, looks like a Viking, very rough kid...and one day he said to me, "well, we're pregnant so I need to change"...he will never forget to never say that crap in front of me...

[Mister D]

...I find it odd that a Spanish male would think like you...Spanish are very "machismo" and you don't fit that at all...next thing you will tell me is bullfighting is wrong and then the jig is up...

:laugh:

[zelmo1234]

This is interesting! Here is my experience.

I am polite, when meeting clients I have to dress nicely. And I have to speak properly!

However, I must give off some kind of signal, because I rarely have to raise my voice, and have always been the Alpha male!

My wife is much younger than I am, and when she started pushing me for a more serious relationship I wondered why she was not dating gentleman her own age. So being the direct person that I was I took her for a week end and asked her. She said that men her age were no longer men!

She calls it public castration!

We have been around her friends and there husbands and have had her friend tell her in front of not only her but their husbands as well, that if anything every happens to her, they are leaving their husband for me.

Now when I ask her what she sees in her old man? She says that she love walking down the street with the perfect gentlemen, that also happens to be the meanest SOB in the city! And she has no fear when she is with me!

So I would say that women prefer real men for partners and metrosexuals to go shopping with!

[kilgram]

...I find it odd that a Spanish male would think like you...Spanish are very "machismo" and you don't fit that at all...next thing you will tell me is bullfighting is wrong and then the jig is up...
Well... In Spain the "machismo" is pretty abandoned, for good luck. However there is some concern because the next generations, it is the teens of 14-15 years are recovering some "machismo", while in the generation of the today have 20s it disappeared.

Toros, bullfighting is not very well seen. Only old people enjoy that abomination. :) Ups, then yes, I am utterly against the torture of animals just for the pleasure of seeing them suffer.

Plus, in Catalonia, where I live, bullfighting is banned and it is a decission that I applauded in the moment, and I am happy. And now one of the "Plaza de Toros" is today a Commercial centre very big and nice.

[Kabuki Joe]

Well... In Spain the "machismo" is pretty abandoned, for good luck. However there is some concern because the next generations, it is the teens of 14-15 years are recovering some "machismo", while in the generation of the today have 20s it disappeared.

Toros, bullfighting is not very well seen. Only old people enjoy that abomination. :) Ups, then yes, I am utterly against the torture of animals just for the pleasure of seeing them suffer.

Plus, in Catalonia, where I live, bullfighting is banned and it is a decission that I applauded in the moment, and I am happy. And now one of the "Plaza de Toros" is today a Commercial centre very big and nice.

...I'm glad for the future of Spain, at least the next generation will recover from your feminization...

[kilgram]

...I'm glad for the future of Spain, at least the next generation will recover from your feminization...
I hope, that it won't happen. It is not good, recovering fascist ideas and authoritarian ideas.

However there is some bother, it is hard that will happen in Spain. The "machismo" will exist, forever, but it is being reduced.

[Mister D]

...I'm glad for the future of Spain, at least the next generation will recover from your feminization...

Spain is running out of generations. Spaniards need a little more machismo and a lot less socialism, anarchism, etc.

[Peter1469]

Spain is running out of generations. Spaniards need a little more machismo and a lot less socialism, anarchism, etc.

Most of Europe is in a demographic death spiral. The Muslims are waiting to fill the vacuum. Progressives just smile and think progress.

[Chris]

Well... In Spain the "machismo" is pretty abandoned, for good luck. However there is some concern because the next generations, it is the teens of 14-15 years are recovering some "machismo", while in the generation of the today have 20s it disappeared.

Toros, bullfighting is not very well seen. Only old people enjoy that abomination. :) Ups, then yes, I am utterly against the torture of animals just for the pleasure of seeing them suffer.

Plus, in Catalonia, where I live, bullfighting is banned and it is a decission that I applauded in the moment, and I am happy. And now one of the "Plaza de Toros" is today a Commercial centre very big and nice.


Hemingway would be saddened.

[Mister D]

And now one of the "Plaza de Toros" is today a Commercial centre very big and nice.

Wait...did Kilgram just say that he's glad a cultural fixture of Spanish society has been replaced by a shopping mall? Even if that refers to office buildings it's still a very strange thing to say considering his politics.

[Kabuki Joe]

Wait...did Kilgram just say that he's glad a cultural fixture of Spanish society has been replaced by a shopping mall? Even if that refers to office buildings it's still a very strange thing to say considering his politics.


...I'm not set on it being a "he"...but either way, it's not a proud Spaniard what-so-ever...and a traitor to your culture is about the worst someone can be...

[Green Arrow]

...I'm not set on it being a "he"...but either way, it's not a proud Spaniard what-so-ever...and a traitor to your culture is about the worst someone can be...

Kilgram does not believe in culturalism, unfortunately.

[kilgram]

Wait...did Kilgram just say that he's glad a cultural fixture of Spanish society has been replaced by a shopping mall? Even if that refers to office buildings it's still a very strange thing to say considering his politics.
What I am basically proud is that there is no more bullfighting in the region where I live. I would have prefered that the Bullfighting square had become something else, but it was a good way to reuse something that would have been abandoned.

I've never felt myself as Spanish. I am closer to Catalan than Spanish.

[kilgram]

...I'm not set on it being a "he"...but either way, it's not a proud Spaniard what-so-ever...and a traitor to your culture is about the worst someone can be...
Well, my culture is Spanish? I don't think so.

I am more culturally linked to Catalan than Spanish. I know that is confusing but Spain is a mixture of many different cultures. Bullfighting is more common in Andalucia and Castilla. In The Catalan Countries those are imported activities.

And like it or not I am a man.


Kilgram does not believe in culturalism, unfortunately.
Well, in some way yes, but it is true that I don't value it. And also you have to add that my heart is independentist in some way. I would like to see Spain divided in four or five nations.

[Kabuki Joe]

Kilgram does not believe in culturalism, unfortunately.


...I'm saddened by this...all serious, no joking...I've love culture...

[Kabuki Joe]

Well, my culture is Spanish? I don't think so.

I am more culturally linked to Catalan than Spanish. I know that is confusing but Spain is a mixture of many different cultures. Bullfighting is more common in Andalucia and Castilla. In The Catalan Countries those are imported activities.

And like it or not I am a man.


Well, in some way yes, but it is true that I don't value it. And also you have to add that my heart is independentist in some way. I would like to see Spain divided in four or five nations.


...I never said I didn't like it, I just don't believe you are a man...a male?...maybe, maybe not...but you don't act like a man (masculine) at all...justify hating and selling out Spain however you want...

[Chris]

So that seems settled, kilgram doesn't fit kabuki's image of a man. gee.

[Captain Obvious]

So that seems settled, kilgram doesn't fit kabuki's image of a man. gee.

http://images.catholic.org/ins_news/2010054203caveman.jpg

[Mister D]

What I am basically proud is that there is no more bullfighting in the region where I live. I would have prefered that the Bullfighting square had become something else, but it was a good way to reuse something that would have been abandoned.

I've never felt myself as Spanish. I am closer to Catalan than Spanish.

So you are relieved to see a fixture of Catalan society replaced by a fixture of capitalism and Americanism. Like I said, that's an awfully strange sentiment for you to have.

[Mister D]

Well, my culture is Spanish? I don't think so.

I am more culturally linked to Catalan than Spanish. I know that is confusing but Spain is a mixture of many different cultures. Bullfighting is more common in Andalucia and Castilla. In The Catalan Countries those are imported activities.

And like it or not I am a man.


Well, in some way yes, but it is true that I don't value it. And also you have to add that my heart is independentist in some way. I would like to see Spain divided in four or five nations.

Of course you don't value it. That's why you are ruled by big business and think the replacement of your traditions by shopping malls is a "good" thing.

[Mister D]

Europeans who adopt the worst aspects of American culture still manage to despise the USA. Is it self-hatred? Do they have contempt for themselves because they love something that they know is bad for them?

[Chris]

So you are relieved to see a fixture of Catalan society replaced by a fixture of capitalism and Americanism. Like I said, that's an awfully strange sentiment for you to have.


Well, kilgram is a revolutionary, an anarchocommunist, who seems to want to do away with so many aspects of society/culture.

[Chloe]

I don't think it's really like true pressure for a guy to be more traditional or metrosexual, but I just think it's become more acceptable for a guy to express themselves in a way that doesn't have to be super masculine. Some girls like that, some girls don't. A glimpse into my liking...I'm perfectly fine with a guy getting a mani/pedi for example or wearing clothes that are trendy and put together. There are many guys that pull that off very well. However, there are some guys, mostly the uber metro ones, that are super high maintenance in all aspects of their life and that's not something I find to be all that great. For example when it comes to getting ready for something and looking physically nice i'm surprisingly (or maybe not surprisingly) a very low maintenance type of girl, I rarely wear make up for example and since my hair is a beast it's not uncommon for me to just braid it or pull it back just to get out of the door, but I like clothes and sometimes I like to take my time, but if he takes longer than me to get ready or if he goes out of his way to stand out when he is with me then I personally would find that to be a bit of a turn off. Equally slumming or equally stylish basically :) I also love when someone opens the door for me and things like that which is more of that traditional guy, but I also don't like being treated like i'm breakable or being catered to because im a girl. I guess I want the best of both worlds, and now that I think about it I guess it does add some pressure on you guys.

[Codename Section]

I don't think it's really like true pressure for a guy to be more traditional or metrosexual, but I just think it's become more acceptable for a guy to express themselves in a way that doesn't have to be super masculine. Some girls like that, some girls don't. A glimpse into my liking...I'm perfectly fine with a guy getting a mani/pedi for example or wearing clothes that are trendy and put together. There are many guys that pull that off very well. However, there are some guys, mostly the uber metro ones, that are super high maintenance in all aspects of their life and that's not something I find to be all that great. For example when it comes to getting ready for something and looking physically nice i'm surprisingly (or maybe not surprisingly) a very low maintenance type of girl, I rarely wear make up for example and since my hair is a beast it's not uncommon for me to just braid it or pull it back just to get out of the door, but I like clothes and sometimes I like to take my time, but if he takes longer than me to get ready or if he goes out of his way to stand out when he is with me then I personally would find that to be a bit of a turn off. Equally slumming or equally stylish basically :) I also love when someone opens the door for me and things like that which is more of that traditional guy, but I also don't like being treated like i'm breakable or being catered to because im a girl. I guess I want the best of both worlds, and now that I think about it I guess it does add some pressure on you guys.


So you want it all? :)

[Chloe]

So you want it all? :)

It would appear that way wouldn't it?

[Captain Obvious]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/d9/d9d16d545481aed6a0e3f44cbcec2d573c7da698b04e34e857 77a9574e4dfe38.jpg

[Codename Section]

Chloe

little boys are told they can't shape a pop tart into a gun, they can't play with fake swords, and that we really don't like those things.

[Chloe]

@Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565)

little boys are told they can't shape a pop tart into a gun, they can't play with fake swords, and that we really don't like those things.

I don't like guns, that's no secret, but the pop tart thing was a bit silly to me and I don't mind the fake swords as long as the parents are making sure that they are playing with them safely. Ok so for example the kids that I babysat yesterday evening have nerf guns and I played hide and seek with them and those nerf guns for a good hour or so both getting shot and shooting at them. I'm not like crazy unreasonable or anything like that when it comes to putting things into perspective. I wasn't super comfortable with it but their parents let them have it and I wanted to make them happy and so I sucked it up and played when they asked.

[Mister D]

Well, kilgram is a revolutionary, an anarchocommunist, who seems to want to do away with so many aspects of society/culture.

He isn't breaking his chains. He's putting them on.

[Mister D]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/d9/d9d16d545481aed6a0e3f44cbcec2d573c7da698b04e34e857 77a9574e4dfe38.jpg

Where did Rev Hellhound go?

[Captain Obvious]

Where did Rev Hellhound go?

Are you saying he was gay?

I dunno, drive-by I guess.

[Mister D]

Are you saying he was gay?

I dunno, drive-by I guess.

I knew I should have clarified! That was his avatar pic. Different text though.

He was over at PH. Seemed sick of it. I guess maybe he just needed a break from that crowd.

[Ravi]

@Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565)

little boys are told they can't shape a pop tart into a gun, they can't play with fake swords, and that we really don't like those things.
You mean at one school they can't do it. Generalize much? I also doubt many would tell little boys that they don't like guns or swords.

You have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

[Codename Section]

You mean at one school they can't do it. Generalize much?

Naw, not really.



You have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

I think you're oblivious.

[Kabuki Joe]

You mean at one school they can't do it. Generalize much? I also doubt many would tell little boys that they don't like guns or swords.

You have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.


...you got a lot of nerve saying that, manhater...

[Codename Section]

Aidan Clark, Khalid Caraballo, Jared Marcum, Hunter Spanjer, "child" Hinkleman, Joshua Welch...start googling those names

^^and that's just some school systems who tried to prosecute or kick out boys who played with fake guns, etc.

http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/playing/weapons.html

^^socialization away from guns and swords


My 2.5 year old son is in day care 3 days per week. This week he suddenly started making pistol fingers and ''pioo pioo pioo'' noises. I was shocked because he has never seen a toy gun or even a picture of a gun in my presence, and this is certainly not something I was ready to deal with! I said ''that's a strange noise, what are you doing?'' but he moved on to talking about something else. But talking to my husband about it later, he said he'd observed our son doing the same thing. He also told me (more worryingly!) that he and son had been playing an imaginary game involving an imaginary cat, when son said that he was going to ''cut the cat with a knife'', or similar. He apparently explicitly said something about wanting to ''hurt'' it. My husband responded with ''we don't ever hurt animals''. (I should say that in all his encounters with real live animals, my son is unfailingly gentle and loving).

I'm torn. On the one hand, I know it's important for children to use imaginary play to explore morality and territory that's off-limits in reality, and I want him to feel safe exploring these things with us. On the other hand, I am extremely disturbed by fantasies about hurting things, and a little paranoid that we're raising a psychopath! I'm also concerned about where he's getting this from (I presume another child at daycare). I don't know of him hitting other children, though the daycare staff say he often will hug children who don't want to be hugged, sometimes with excessive force. He does sometimes bite, kick and hit me, especially when over-tired, and then will bawl when I immediately put him down and walk away.


So, Berkeley Parents, I would really value your feedback as to how normal this behavior is and how concerned we should be. Is it a phase most children go through, or is it something we need to take special care over (e.g. seeking professional advice)? Should we speak to the staff at the daycare center about this? THANK YOU! Pacifist

Response


Congratulations, you have a male child. That's what they do. And as you can see, that's what they do naturally even when not bathed in TV, toy guns, or other violent culture.You say he's ''unfailingly gentle and loving'' in real life, and his main problem at daycare is occasionally hugging people too much? Chill out! The violent play is his way of trying to understand the mechanism and consequences of violence and pain in a safe way -- to ''game it out'' in his head, understand it, ease his fears. It serves important purposes, not the least of which is that it's fun for him (and doesn't hurt anyone).


As Michael Thomson likes to say (paraphrased), ''Play violence is not real violence, and we lose credibility with our children when we fail to be able to distinguish the two.'' Father of a boy; and former boy myself

That whole message board is enlightening, it's hippie parents shocked by their little boys who instinctively are rowdy.

[Ravi]

Aidan Clark, Khalid Caraballo, Jared Marcum, Hunter Spanjer, "child" Hinkleman, Joshua Welch...start googling those names

^^and that's just some school systems who tried to prosecute or kick out boys who played with fake guns, etc.

http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/playing/weapons.html

^^socialization away from guns and swords



Response



That whole message board is enlightening, it's hippie parents shocked by their little boys who instinctively are rowdy.
Male children have fantasies about harming cats? News to me.

[kilgram]

So you are relieved to see a fixture of Catalan society replaced by a fixture of capitalism and Americanism. Like I said, that's an awfully strange sentiment for you to have.
That was not a fixture of Catalan society, and it is better to be reused that being destroyed, no?

That the building could have been used for other things, yes. But it is not bad.

[kilgram]

He isn't breaking his chains. He's putting them on.
Well, the fact. I don't like as much that decision. But I like it thousand times more than being used for animals torture.

So, if you tell me for a place being used for killing and torturing animals or a place to go shopping, I prefer the second.

[Mister D]

That was not a fixture of Catalan society, and it is better to be reused that being destroyed, no?

That the building could have been used for other things, yes. But it is not bad.

Bull fighting in Catalonia is hundreds of years old. We both know that. Bull fighting is also seen as "Spanish" by Catalonian nationalists despite the first recorded bull fight occurring in the Middle Ages but you're not a nationalist...

[Mister D]

Well, the fact. I don't like as much that decision. But I like it thousand times more than being used for animals torture.

So, if you tell me for a place being used for killing and torturing animals or a place to go shopping, I prefer the second.

You said you were happy with the decision to turn it into a shopping mall. If you hadn't made such an unwittingly pro-American comment we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Cthulhu]

You mean at one school they can't do it. Generalize much? I also doubt many would tell little boys that they don't like guns or swords.

Depends on where you go. But the trend is growing.



You have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

Damn skippy. You're not the one whose gender identity is under attack in full force.

...actually, both gender identities are under attack, but men seem to more readily recognize it.

Men love a lady, but there are fewer and fewer ladies around, much like women love gentlemen, but there are fewer and fewer of them around. Chivalry is dead, and women killed it. Dave Chappelle did a great piece on it years ago, crass as hell, but fairly accurate.

[Peter1469]

Yes, the women's movement dumped all over chivalry.

I wasn't classy.

[Ravi]

Depends on where you go. But the trend is growing.



Damn skippy. You're not the one whose gender identity is under attack in full force.

...actually, both gender identities are under attack, but men seem to more readily recognize it.

Men love a lady, but there are fewer and fewer ladies around, much like women love gentlemen, but there are fewer and fewer of them around. Chivalry is dead, and women killed it. Dave Chappelle did a great piece on it years ago, crass as hell, but fairly accurate.
Speak for yourself. I get doors held open for me on a regular basis and I also hold doors open for people on a regular basis.

It's called being polite.

[Dr. Who]

Being a lover of old movies, I can't help but notice that dressing well and being well groomed used to be the norm back in the 30's and 40's. I don't know that dressing well is a sign of metrosexuality. Spending more time in the bathroom than a woman however, is a bit much, but with some men's' hairstyles today, it takes time to get the hair just right. Not like the old Brylcreem days.

[Captain Obvious]

Speak for yourself. I get doors held open for me on a regular basis and I also hold doors open for people on a regular basis.

It's called being polite.

I hold the door for my wife all the time but I usually (not always) smack her ass when she walks through.

She gives me that token stink eye glance but I know she loves it.

[Peter1469]

Being a lover of old movies, I can't help but notice that dressing well and being well groomed used to be the norm back in the 30's and 40's. I don't know that dressing well is a sign of metrosexuality. Spending more time in the bathroom than a woman however, is a bit much, but with some men's' hairstyles today, it takes time to get the hair just right. Not like the old Brylcreem days.

Being well dressed is one thing. Getting manicures and pedicures alone with facials is another thing.

[The Xl]

I don't classify myself as either. I'm just me. That could be either side of the spectrum or anywhere in between, depending on the issue at hand. I actually like to shave my body hair and frequently look at myself in the mirror, not to see if I'm looking good for the ladies, but more for myself. I'm also polite to strangers, always hold the door for people, man or women, etc. Those characteristics are extremely metrosexual.

On the other hand, the things I engage in and enjoy are fighting and training, weight training and otherwise. I also couldn't give a fuck about my reputation, have scars on my arms that I'm not afraid of showing, curse, etc. Those would be considered "manly" I guess.

It's not a black or white thing.

[Archer0915]

Being a lover of old movies, I can't help but notice that dressing well and being well groomed used to be the norm back in the 30's and 40's. I don't know that dressing well is a sign of metrosexuality. Spending more time in the bathroom than a woman however, is a bit much, but with some men's' hairstyles today, it takes time to get the hair just right. Not like the old Brylcreem days.

Hmmmmm? Wash hair, shower, shave when itchy, Wash ass, change clothes when they are dirty or stink... Yeah I am one of those guys that showers and put on the same clothes later.

[Dr. Who]

Being well dressed is one thing. Getting manicures and pedicures alone with facials is another thing.
Manicures have been popular among wealthy men and mobsters for many years - as a sign of wealth. I don't think pedicures were so popular. Facials - well I don't know how many men go in for those, but at one time men used to get shaved by a barber, which included a hot towel on the face, which if you think about it, is really part of a facial. Traditional shaving creams included lubricating oils that acted as a skin moisturizer and the application of an aftershave that was like a pore tightening astringent and a moisturizer combined. The shave itself also accomplishes exfoliation. Hmmm .... a facial, man style.

[Peter1469]

Not going there.


Manicures have been popular among wealthy men and mobsters for many years - as a sign of wealth. I don't think pedicures were so popular. Facials - well I don't know how many men go in for those, but at one time men used to get shaved by a barber, which included a hot towel on the face, which if you think about it, is really part of a facial. Traditional shaving creams included lubricating oils that acted as a skin moisturizer and the application of an aftershave that was like a pore tightening astringent and a moisturizer combined. The shave itself also accomplishes exfoliation. Hmmm .... a facial, man style.

[Dr. Who]

Not going there.
You wouldn't go for an old fashioned barber shave?

[Peter1469]

You wouldn't go for an old fashioned barber shave?

That is what I do. But I pass on the hot towel thing.

[Dr. Who]

That is what I do. But I pass on the hot towel thing. I guess that's a personal preference, but it softens the beard and makes for a closer shave and can eliminate ingrown hairs especially for people with course or curly beards.

[Ravi]

I don't classify myself as either. I'm just me. That could be either side of the spectrum or anywhere in between, depending on the issue at hand. I actually like to shave my body hair and frequently look at myself in the mirror, not to see if I'm looking good for the ladies, but more for myself. I'm also polite to strangers, always hold the door for people, man or women, etc. Those characteristics are extremely metrosexual.

On the other hand, the things I engage in and enjoy are fighting and training, weight training and otherwise. I also couldn't give a fuck about my reputation, have scars on my arms that I'm not afraid of showing, curse, etc. Those would be considered "manly" I guess.

It's not a black or white thing.
You sound like a metrosexual.

[zelmo1234]

That is what I do. But I pass on the hot towel thing.

You don't know what you are missing! when I lived in Chicago back in the 80's there was a barber shop that still did an old fashion shave and they had a shoe shine stand as well! It was the best!

[Peter1469]

You don't know what you are missing! when I lived in Chicago back in the 80's there was a barber shop that still did an old fashion shave and they had a shoe shine stand as well! It was the best!

ok

[Cthulhu]

Speak for yourself. I get doors held open for me on a regular basis and I also hold doors open for people on a regular basis.

It's called being polite.

Gender identities involve more than opening doors and politeness. But we all know that don't we?

[Ravi]

Gender identities involve more than opening doors and politeness. But we all know that don't we?
Yeah a lot of us don't need gender identities to be polite.

[The Xl]

You sound like a metrosexual.

Maybe I am.

::Shrugs::

[Cthulhu]

Manicures have been popular among wealthy men and mobsters for many years - as a sign of wealth. I don't think pedicures were so popular. Facials - well I don't know how many men go in for those, but at one time men used to get shaved by a barber, which included a hot towel on the face, which if you think about it, is really part of a facial. Traditional shaving creams included lubricating oils that acted as a skin moisturizer and the application of an aftershave that was like a pore tightening astringent and a moisturizer combined. The shave itself also accomplishes exfoliation. Hmmm .... a facial, man style.

I have had some excellent shaves at Salt Lake Community College, the beauty school department. Where all the guys are either metro or gay and the girls are themselves.

But the shave and a haircut gig wasn't too bad. Old straight razor style.

The best one I ever had though was in Oceanside, CA. Where the marines are regarded with more contempt than possible. Aside from that though, they do have some old bubbas that know how to use a razor all proper like. They deserve the tips they get.

[Dr. Who]

I have had some excellent shaves at Salt Lake Community College, the beauty school department. Where all the guys are either metro or gay and the girls are themselves.

But the shave and a haircut gig wasn't too bad. Old straight razor style.

The best one I ever had though was in Oceanside, CA. Where the marines are regarded with more contempt than possible. Aside from that though, they do have some old bubbas that know how to use a razor all proper like. They deserve the tips they get.

Nothing gives a better shave than a straight razor.

[Alyosha]

This thread was supposed to be for men to discuss and us read but we still snuck in and gave our opinion. What does that say?

[The Xl]

This thread was supposed to be for men to discuss and us read but we still snuck in and gave our opinion. What does that say?

Yall be pushy bitchez, yo

[Archer0915]

This thread was supposed to be for men to discuss and us read but we still snuck in and gave our opinion. What does that say?

Nothing really.

[Bob]

This thread was supposed to be for men to discuss and us read but we still snuck in and gave our opinion. What does that say?

You are sort of clever????

[Bob]

Manicures have been popular among wealthy men and mobsters for many years - as a sign of wealth. I don't think pedicures were so popular. Facials - well I don't know how many men go in for those, but at one time men used to get shaved by a barber, which included a hot towel on the face, which if you think about it, is really part of a facial. Traditional shaving creams included lubricating oils that acted as a skin moisturizer and the application of an aftershave that was like a pore tightening astringent and a moisturizer combined. The shave itself also accomplishes exfoliation. Hmmm .... a facial, man style.

I suspect that those who went west stopped in time to time to get a shave from a barber. But razors and strops at the time took up space or could be lost.

Since I started shaving in the 1950s, no barber touched my face to shave me.

As those who want men to play with their toes or fingers, forget it.

[kilgram]

I don't classify myself as either. I'm just me. That could be either side of the spectrum or anywhere in between, depending on the issue at hand. I actually like to shave my body hair and frequently look at myself in the mirror, not to see if I'm looking good for the ladies, but more for myself. I'm also polite to strangers, always hold the door for people, man or women, etc. Those characteristics are extremely metrosexual.
Well, the first characteristics agreed, but holding the door for people makes someone metrosexual? LOL. Being polite is being metrosexual?

Well, therefore I am, too. Because I usually do the same.


On the other hand, the things I engage in and enjoy are fighting and training, weight training and otherwise. I also couldn't give a fuck about my reputation, have scars on my arms that I'm not afraid of showing, curse, etc. Those would be considered "manly" I guess.

It's not a black or white thing.
I believe that purely this "manly" and this "metrosexuality" shit is a pure bullshit and everyone is as they are. Point.

By the way, this thread is useful to see the sexists.

And I suppose that for those defenders of "manly" men they want that women be dependent, that they don't think by themselves and do everything the man, the master of home, say that they have to do...

[Codename Section]

By the way, this thread is useful to see the sexists.

And I suppose that for those defenders of "manly" men they want that women be dependent, that they don't think by themselves and do everything the man, the master of home, say that they have to do...

Naww, I want women to do what they want to do and then find someone who feels the same. No one should be a mother unless they want to be--or a father. You'll do a shitty job if you don't want to and raising kids is the most important thing someone can do with their life.

[Kabuki Joe]

Well, the fact. I don't like as much that decision. But I like it thousand times more than being used for animals torture.

So, if you tell me for a place being used for killing and torturing animals or a place to go shopping, I prefer the second.


...you're Spanish and you don't even understand what it's about...really sad in my opinion...

[Kabuki Joe]

Being a lover of old movies, I can't help but notice that dressing well and being well groomed used to be the norm back in the 30's and 40's. I don't know that dressing well is a sign of metrosexuality. Spending more time in the bathroom than a woman however, is a bit much, but with some men's' hairstyles today, it takes time to get the hair just right. Not like the old Brylcreem days.


...funny thing, have you ever seen those pics of people in other parts of the world doing manual labor in slacks and a sport coat?...it's kind of funny...

[Chris]

...you're Spanish and you don't even understand what it's about...really sad in my opinion...

I think though, kabuki, you're overgeneralizing Spanish. Kilgram explained earlier, the culture is actually more local: "I am more culturally linked to Catalan than Spanish. I know that is confusing but Spain is a mixture of many different cultures. Bullfighting is more common in Andalucia and Castilla. In The Catalan Countries those are imported activities."

[Kabuki Joe]

Hmmmmm? Wash hair, shower, shave when itchy, Wash ass, change clothes when they are dirty or stink... Yeah I am one of those guys that showers and put on the same clothes later.


...in the army out in the field if you turned your shorts inside out, it was almost like a clean pair... :)

[Codename Section]

This thread was supposed to be for men to discuss and us read but we still snuck in and gave our opinion. What does that say?

That women "know" how we feel better than we do. They've lived the male experience. Or maybe it means you guys don't know how to let us have something by ourselves.


Hi Rinnie! :)

[Kabuki Joe]

That women "know" how we feel better than we do. They've lived the male experience. Or maybe it means you guys don't know how to let us have something by ourselves.


Hi Rinnie! :)


...my wife has never told me how to act...she does tell me when I'm being an ass, but that's different...

[Ravi]

...my wife has never told me how to act...she does tell me when I'm being an ass, but that's different...
Did you mean normal?

[Kabuki Joe]

Did you mean normal?

...were you born a manhater or were you pushed into it by one of your girlfriends?...

[Ravi]

...were you born a manhater or were you pushed into it by one of your girlfriends?...
You're a man?

[Captain Obvious]

You're a man?

cave...

[Kabuki Joe]

You're a man?


...so you hate me?...I was talking in general...

[Dr. Who]

...funny thing, have you ever seen those pics of people in other parts of the world doing manual labor in slacks and a sport coat?...it's kind of funny...

Back in the day, Europeans used to recycle old dress clothes as work clothes.

[Ravi]

...so you hate me?...I was talking in general...
I don't hate men, they make excellent pets. I could only conclude butt hurt from your post.

[Kabuki Joe]

I don't hate men, they make excellent pets. I could only conclude butt hurt from your post.


...are you whining by bringing this up?...

[KC]

It depends on who the man is and where he lives.