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Green Arrow
04-15-2014, 02:01 PM
via Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/federal-income-taxes-poll-105669.html?hp=r17):


The day before Tax Day, April 15, a new poll shows that more than half of Americans think the amount they pay in federal income taxes is too high.

Fifty-two percent said the amount they have to pay is too high, while 42 percent called it “about right,” according to a Gallup poll released Monday.


While the pollster notes that the percentage of respondents who say federal taxes are too high has hovered around 50 percent for the last decade, it is up from 46 percent in 2012.

According to Democrat logic, this means there can be no denying that Americans think taxes are too high and we must immediately work to lower them.

Do it for the children.​

Matty
04-15-2014, 02:03 PM
50% think they're just right. That's those who pay zero in Federal tax and some of them get rebates on the zero they pay. They're happy campers!

nic34
04-15-2014, 02:06 PM
No brainer. Taxes are too high on working and middle class folks. Duh.

Millionaires and billionaires never had it so good.....

..... now we wait for the latest bust after the latest boom... on ond on we go....

Green Arrow
04-15-2014, 02:09 PM
No brainer. Taxes are too high on working and middle class folks. Duh.

Millionaires and billionaires never had it so good.....

..... now we wait for the latest bust after the latest boom... on ond on we go....

And it won't stop until we do away with the Federal Reserve :D

Newpublius
04-15-2014, 02:41 PM
I pay more in taxes than housing. The single biggest expense I have, by far I might add, is taxes.

Peter1469
04-15-2014, 03:06 PM
The rich pay the largest percentage of tax revenue as a group in the US.

sachem
04-15-2014, 03:10 PM
Taxes too high. Color me shocked.

Alyosha
04-15-2014, 03:14 PM
The whole 1% line pisses me off because the lower end of the 1% is $375k and will be hammered by Democrats like they are the robber baron millionaires instead of doctors, radiologists and other people who have no effect on the economy.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 03:40 PM
The rich pay the largest percentage of tax revenue as a group in the US.

In income tax? Non income tax? Total tax?

How much earned income does the ultra wealthy earn?

patrickt
04-15-2014, 03:45 PM
No brainer. Taxes are too high on working and middle class folks. Duh.

Millionaires and billionaires never had it so good.....

..... now we wait for the latest bust after the latest boom... on ond on we go....

Sorry, Nic, but it's the deadbeats who pay zero taxes who have never had it so good. We are all aware that by far most of the income taxes are paid by the top 1%.

GrassrootsConservative
04-15-2014, 03:47 PM
Sorry, Nic, but it's the deadbeats who pay zero taxes who have never had it so good. We are all aware that by far most of the income taxes are paid by the top 1%.

Finally, the truth comes out!

Peter1469
04-15-2014, 03:48 PM
In income tax? Non income tax? Total tax?

How much earned income does the ultra wealthy earn?

All federal income taxes (http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/) are included below.


The top 10 percent of taxpayers paid over 70% of the total amount collected in federal income taxes in 2010, the latest year figures are available, according to the Tax Foundation, a think tank that advocates for lower taxes. That's up from 55% in 1986.


The remaining 90% bore just under 30% of the tax burden. And 47% of all Americans pay hardly anything at all -- a fact that got Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney into political hot water (http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/2012/12/19/dumbest-moments-2012/3.html?iid=EL) last year.


"There's been a huge myth created that the rich aren't paying anything," said William McBride, the Tax Foundation's chief economist. "The rich pay a much higher rate than the poor."

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 03:52 PM
All federal income taxes (http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/) are included below.

Those are income taxes. How much taxable income (in terms of income tax) do the uber wealthy earn?

Another way, how much total tax (capital gains, income tax, etc.) do the wealthy pay as a total of all income sources? Also, how many tax shelters, loophole advantages do the uber wealthy have at their disposal than say the middle class?

Ransom
04-15-2014, 04:12 PM
Those are income taxes. How much taxable income (in terms of income tax) do the uber wealthy earn?

At least you're not an uber lib otherwise you would have not ended that sentence with the word earn. Most of it is...earned.


Another way, how much total tax (capital gains, income tax, etc.) do the wealthy pay as a total of all income sources? Also, how many tax shelters, loophole advantages do the uber wealthy have at their disposal than say the middle class?

Tax shelter like....oh....investment into some endeavor that actually f'n creates jobs? Education fund for their children. And loopholes are common denominators Captain. Equal across the board.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 04:14 PM
So that's the canned Rushbot reply, anyone want to give an insightful intelligent response?

Peter1469
04-15-2014, 04:17 PM
The topic is about people being pissed at the taxes they pay. Not the money they earn.

Simply put, the rich as a group (not as individuals) pay more now that ever. One would think that society would prefer more rich than less rich if the result is greater tax revenues.

Which it is if you look at tax revenues over the years. This pic is too short of a time frame, but you would see the same thing over time. (The downturn in this pic is from an economic recession; not rich people paying taxes).




Those are income taxes. How much taxable income (in terms of income tax) do the uber wealthy earn?

Another way, how much total tax (capital gains, income tax, etc.) do the wealthy pay as a total of all income sources? Also, how many tax shelters, loophole advantages do the uber wealthy have at their disposal than say the middle class?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 04:22 PM
The topic is about people being pissed at the taxes they pay. Not the money they earn.

Simply put, the rich as a group (not as individuals) pay more now that ever. One would think that society would prefer more rich than less rich if the result is greater tax revenues.

Which it is if you look at tax revenues over the years. This pic is too short of a time frame, but you would see the same thing over time. (The downturn in this pic is from an economic recession; not rich people paying taxes).

That's total revenue, there is no division of where it's coming from.

The question is still unanswered. The common and correct statement is that the wealthy pay the highest percentage of earned income tax, but add all the other taxes paid (and not paid) and consider total tax liability, not just income taxes. This includes Social Security/FICA, taxes on capital gains, etc.

What is "earned income" and who has the highest proportion of "earned income" to total overall income/wealth?

Peter1469
04-15-2014, 04:27 PM
That's total revenue, there is no division of where it's coming from.

The question is still unanswered. The common and correct statement is that the wealthy pay the highest percentage of earned income tax, but add all the other taxes paid (and not paid) and consider total tax liability, not just income taxes. This includes Social Security/FICA, taxes on capital gains, etc.

What is "earned income" and who has the highest proportion of "earned income" to total overall income/wealth?

Yes we are talking about who pays federal income taxes. The rest is another topic.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 04:30 PM
Yes we are talking about who pays federal income taxes. The rest is another topic.

Maybe, but if you're only looking at income taxes on earned income then what's the point?

It's just another way for the right to cherry pick data to make ridiculous claims that the wealthy are paying their fair share of taxes which simply isn't true.

Just like the wealthy are the only ones who can invest in jobs, another ridiculous statement when you break it down, but nobody bothers to do that. Talking points are goo nuff.

Peter1469
04-15-2014, 04:31 PM
Maybe, but if you're only looking at income taxes on earned income then what's the point?

It's just another way for the right to cherry pick data to make ridiculous claims that the wealthy are paying their fair share of taxes which simply isn't true.

Just like the wealthy are the only ones who can invest in jobs, another ridiculous statement when you break it down, but nobody bothers to do that. Talking points are goo nuff.

We are talking about total federal taxes.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 04:32 PM
We are talking about total federal taxes.

Total federal taxes and total (federal) income taxes are two different things.

zelmo1234
04-15-2014, 04:34 PM
No brainer. Taxes are too high on working and middle class folks. Duh.

Millionaires and billionaires never had it so good.....

..... now we wait for the latest bust after the latest boom... on ond on we go....

So let me get this straight!

The people that don't pay Federal income tax are paying too much!

And the people that pay 90% of federal income tax are paying too little?

Is that what you really think?

Ransom
04-15-2014, 04:35 PM
If it isn't true that the wealthy pay their fair share as you claim, prove it.

Now...watch this. I'll be called names...an attempt to dismiss my post will be made....but you'll see no proof given for his claim. It's merely the uber liberal claim.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 04:37 PM
So let me get this straight!

The people that don't pay Federal income tax are paying too much!

And the people that pay 90% of federal income tax are paying too little?

Is that what you really think?

There's really a couple issues at stake here.

Unfortunately the middle class gets stuck holding the bag either way.

zelmo1234
04-15-2014, 04:38 PM
Those are income taxes. How much taxable income (in terms of income tax) do the uber wealthy earn?

Another way, how much total tax (capital gains, income tax, etc.) do the wealthy pay as a total of all income sources? Also, how many tax shelters, loophole advantages do the uber wealthy have at their disposal than say the middle class?

Don't hate the player? Hate the game! The government has set up our terrible tax code! I would agree that making it simple would be a great thing!

zelmo1234
04-15-2014, 04:42 PM
So that's the canned Rushbot reply, anyone want to give an insightful intelligent response?

It also happens to be the truth!

If I purchase a lot of stocks that creates capital for the companies and they can invest that capital

Or lets look at it this way pension funds and retired people have billions invested in the market! do you want to tax them at a higher rate too? Then they will all have to live on much less!

If I invest in a new restaurant, Hire and Chef and a manager and they hire the crew and run it? Did I not earn the money that I make off that investment? Or should I just have invested in a foreign stock market and kept those earnings overseas when I pay a lot less in taxes?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 04:46 PM
It also happens to be the truth!

If I purchase a lot of stocks that creates capital for the companies and they can invest that capital

Or lets look at it this way pension funds and retired people have billions invested in the market! do you want to tax them at a higher rate too? Then they will all have to live on much less!

If I invest in a new restaurant, Hire and Chef and a manager and they hire the crew and run it? Did I not earn the money that I make off that investment? Or should I just have invested in a foreign stock market and kept those earnings overseas when I pay a lot less in taxes?

So a more equally wealth distributed society couldn't accomplish the same thing?

You know, one where the rules are more evenly divided?

The reality is that the uber wealthy enjoy privileges that most of the rest of us don't. One of them is indoctrination where they actually get middle class people to kiss their asses and keep them uber wealthy for only a few table scraps.

Ransom
04-15-2014, 04:47 PM
You make 10,000 you pay some 650 into SS, employer matches. You make 110,000, you'll pay @ 6500. You make $1 mill......you pay @6500. Ceilings the issue, the ubers want entitlements taxed like income.....they want wealth redistribution.

zelmo1234
04-15-2014, 04:48 PM
Maybe, but if you're only looking at income taxes on earned income then what's the point?

It's just another way for the right to cherry pick data to make ridiculous claims that the wealthy are paying their fair share of taxes which simply isn't true.

Just like the wealthy are the only ones who can invest in jobs, another ridiculous statement when you break it down, but nobody bothers to do that. Talking points are goo nuff.

If you add everything together, my tax burden when you consider all taxes is about 54% of my total income. Yes I pay FICA on the first 120 some thousand , and then I don't pay it any more. But I pay business taxes, my employee's don't pay those. property taxes Fees for business licenses, Inspectors ect! I happen to buy a lot more stuff than someone that does not make as much so I pay a lot of Sales taxes too!

Yes if you look at it the middle class and the poor do pay taxes the national average is about 40% combined, but I do have more money left over at the end of the day? Should I not?

Ransom
04-15-2014, 04:49 PM
What kind of car do you drive, Captain? Where was the last nice place you visited.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 04:50 PM
If you add everything together, my tax burden when you consider all taxes is about 54% of my total income. Yes I pay FICA on the first 120 some thousand , and then I don't pay it any more. But I pay business taxes, my employee's don't pay those. property taxes Fees for business licenses, Inspectors ect! I happen to buy a lot more stuff than someone that does not make as much so I pay a lot of Sales taxes too!

Yes if you look at it the middle class and the poor do pay taxes the national average is about 40% combined, but I do have more money left over at the end of the day? Should I not?

To be honest, you'd have to lay all that out in front of me to inspect for me to make my own conclusion. I'm not saying you're not being honest, but as a CPA I know the devil is in the detail.

Bob
04-15-2014, 04:53 PM
The rich pay the largest percentage of tax revenue as a group in the US.

They carry the entire country and rather than be grateful, the left wingers despise them. Want them stiffed for far more money.

Bob
04-15-2014, 04:57 PM
Those are income taxes. How much taxable income (in terms of income tax) do the uber wealthy earn?

Another way, how much total tax (capital gains, income tax, etc.) do the wealthy pay as a total of all income sources? Also, how many tax shelters, loophole advantages do the uber wealthy have at their disposal than say the middle class?

Your question has nothing to do with Peters argument. He is not discussing incomes but taxes paid and by whom. Are you also one of those jealous that some people make more than you make?

zelmo1234
04-15-2014, 04:58 PM
To be honest, you'd have to lay all that out in front of me to inspect for me to make my own conclusion. I'm not saying you're not being honest, but as a CPA I know the devil is in the detail.

Well as a CPA you know that rich people pay a shit load in taxes.

And some of that is brought on ourselves. I own hundreds of acres of lands housing developments. None of this goes without taxes! you know that!

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:01 PM
To be honest, you'd have to lay all that out in front of me to inspect for me to make my own conclusion. I'm not saying you're not being honest, but as a CPA I know the devil is in the detail.

In all my years posting on forums, you are the FIRST and only CPA that denied that the rich pay far more taxes per person than any of the lower 90 percent pay. He told you plenty. He even gave details.

Are you serious with that attitude you were ever a republican?

Can't you see the unjust nature of Democrats?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:01 PM
Your question has nothing to do with Peters argument. He is not discussing incomes but taxes paid and by whom. Are you also one of those jealous that some people make more than you make?

You're a hack, which is why I generally don't respond to you.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:02 PM
Well as a CPA you know that rich people pay a shit load in taxes.

And some of that is brought on ourselves. I own hundreds of acres of lands housing developments. None of this goes without taxes! you know that!

You ought to get more votes than those doing far less.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:03 PM
You're a hack, which is why I generally don't respond to you.

Isn't that a hoot. I have long thought that very thing about you. But once in a while I enjoy toying with fools.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:04 PM
Well as a CPA you know that rich people pay a shit load in taxes.

And some of that is brought on ourselves. I own hundreds of acres of lands housing developments. None of this goes without taxes! you know that!

For one thing, you're blending business and personal income/wealth together. It's the first thing I'd separate to develop an understanding of your point.

And to be honest, your situation isn't really part of the argument I'm making. It sounds like you've been an entrepreneur to a degree and were successful at it. You claim that you qualify as a 1%er but I don't think you're really in the class of wealthy that I'm referring to.

In fact, the "middle class" should be more like what you're representing yourself to be IMO.

nic34
04-15-2014, 05:07 PM
Sorry, Nic, but it's the deadbeats who pay zero taxes who have never had it so good. We are all aware that by far most of the income taxes are paid by the top 1%.

I'm sure you believe this, Rmoney told you so.....

nic34
04-15-2014, 05:09 PM
So let me get this straight!

The people that don't pay Federal income tax are paying too much!

And the people that pay 90% of federal income tax are paying too little?

Is that what you really think?

Do YOU really think all working people and all of the middle class pay no federal taxes?

patrickt
04-15-2014, 05:11 PM
I'm sure you believe this, Rmoney told you so.....

Sorry, Nic, but unlike leftists I don't get my information from politicians. But, even for you that was a weak shot. You can't deny the truth of what I said so you go for a snide, and untrue, comment. Congratulations.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:11 PM
So a more equally wealth distributed society couldn't accomplish the same thing?

You know, one where the rules are more evenly divided?

The reality is that the uber wealthy enjoy privileges that most of the rest of us don't. One of them is indoctrination where they actually get middle class people to kiss their asses and keep them uber wealthy for only a few table scraps.

What a hack.

First, stop claiming you were a republican. No republican acts that way.

This country is not created so you take from a person that earns it and delivers it to those who did not.

Do you support pro football teams donating points to the other side because they got too many points?

The fact you use Bush as your Avatar was enough for me to know what you are. He is giving the finger. And you don't like republicans.

Every client I have ever represented made choices. Some I was able to stop from buying a new car and they bought a home that vastly increased in price as the car they wanted declined in value and they got rent as well.

I learned long ago, if you want to get rich, help a person get rich and be able to earn money making them rich. I don't complain about the rich. They carry this country on their backs.

countryboy
04-15-2014, 05:11 PM
I'm sure you believe this, Rmoney told you so.....

No, data collected by the IRS proves it.

Mainecoons
04-15-2014, 05:13 PM
Do you REALLY NOT understand that nearly half pay no income tax?

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:13 PM
Do YOU really think all working people and all of the middle class pay no federal taxes?

No, but you favor those who can't claim to pay very much in income taxes. Rather than milk that cow, you go after those who work the most and the longest.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:18 PM
Those are income taxes. How much taxable income (in terms of income tax) do the uber wealthy earn?

Another way, how much total tax (capital gains, income tax, etc.) do the wealthy pay as a total of all income sources? Also, how many tax shelters, loophole advantages do the uber wealthy have at their disposal than say the middle class?

I thought you claimed to be a CPA.

The poor don't need one. The middle class go to HR Block.

So, how can you be a CPA and know so little about the rich?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:18 PM
What a hack.

First, stop claiming you were a republican. No republican acts that way.

Assumptions from a fool - I never claimed to be a republican nor am I.

But don't let that get in the way of your idiotic rhetorical stereotyping.


This country is not created so you take from a person that earns it and delivers it to those who did not.

Do you support pro football teams donating points to the other side because they got too many points?

When the teams are unevenly stacked like a kid playing a video game on cheat mode?

And I'm sure you're not even that kid cheating on the game, you're the tool sitting behind him watching.


The fact you use Bush as your Avatar was enough for me to know what you are. He is giving the finger. And you don't like republicans.

I know you're one of those insecure types who can't possibly cope with the fact that there are others out there who don't subscribe to your RushBeck induced, bucket carrying indoctrinated political philosophy.

Pucker up big boy.


Every client I have ever represented made choices. Some I was able to stop from buying a new car and they bought a home that vastly increased in price as the car they wanted declined in value and they got rent as well.

I learned long ago, if you want to get rich, help a person get rich and be able to earn money making them rich. I don't complain about the rich. They carry this country on their backs.

You'd make a good socialist, you sure you're not one, little Eichmann?

Now this is my gift to you, more attention than you really deserve. I tend to disregard the indoctrinated bucket carriers on the forum, their dull, repetitive, scripted and mindless nonsense is nothing I can't get from an hour on RW radio or from the rest of the throng of lemmings just like you.

So cherish this gift, you'll probably not see much attention from me at this point.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:20 PM
Do you REALLY NOT understand that nearly half pay no income tax?

It's more of a testament to the shrinking middle class and expanding uber wealthy.

Mainecoons
04-15-2014, 05:24 PM
It's also a testament to the last tax cut which eliminated a whole bunch of filers. These Democrat demagogues who whine about the "Bush" tax cuts conveniently ignore that most of the cuts and the elimination of tax liability was on the bottom end.

Plus, as you say, we do have the Obama administration which is the most successful ever in enriching the 0.1 percent and damaging everyone else.

Arguing over how taxes are collected is a convenient way to ignore the fact that there is simply too much taxation in America today. The government cancer consumes 40 percent of the stagnating GNP, can't deliver services effectively, and borrows a ton on top of that.

That's the problem, not how much tax and how many are taxed. All Nic sees is his class hatred and he actually thinks soak the rich works when if there's one thing that has been proven time and time again, it is that when you try to gouge the rich they end up paying less tax because they know how to hide the money.

When it is cheaper for them to pay the tax then it is to hide the money, they pay the tax.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:24 PM
Maybe, but if you're only looking at income taxes on earned income then what's the point?

It's just another way for the right to cherry pick data to make ridiculous claims that the wealthy are paying their fair share of taxes which simply isn't true.

Just like the wealthy are the only ones who can invest in jobs, another ridiculous statement when you break it down, but nobody bothers to do that. Talking points are goo nuff.

No, Peter is accurate.

Your claims are spurious.

How can you claim you ever supported republicans when you act like you are 100 percent a Harry Reid form of Democrat?

For a man making a living off tax advice, you sure seem ill informed about the rich and their having to bear the tax load for the entire country. But you want more.

Get it from those who pay you.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:25 PM
And this is the problem I have with discussing shit like this on forums like these, when the discussion is underway every bucket carrying, rich white guy ass kissing moron starts shitting the bed with "you're a progressive", "redistribution of wealth", "rich guys give us jobs" bullshit.

Stop shitting your pants already, take the death grip off of your fucking Ann Coulter doll already, nobody (at least me) is talking about redistributing anything. I'm talking about evening the playing field.

If the rules were the same for everybody there would be no reason to redistribute wealth. Pay your fair share of taxes, a system of free markets that isn't predatory or protective, a larger middle class controlling a larger proportion of wealth - that same wealth that the vast minority of people hold us hostage over.

Yeah, I know - a concept that never enters your tiny little minds, never gets past the indoctrination.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:25 PM
It's more of a testament to the shrinking middle class and expanding uber wealthy.

Well who the fuck is president? He makes people very rich.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:26 PM
It's also a testament to the last tax cut which eliminated a whole bunch of filers. These Democrat demagogues who whine about the "Bush" tax cuts conveniently ignore that most of the cuts and the elimination of tax liability was on the bottom end.

Plus, as you say, we do have the Obama administration which is the most successful ever in enriching the 0.1 percent and damaging everyone else.

Middle classes are manipulated by both parties. Democrats keep the poor poor, great voting stock base. Republicans (and Democrats) keep the wealthy wealthy, they're not going to shit on their dinner plates.

The middle class foots the bill for both.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:27 PM
And this is the problem I have with discussing shit like this on forums like these, when the discussion is underway every bucket carrying, rich white guy ass kissing moron starts shitting the bed with "you're a progressive", "redistribution of wealth", "rich guys give us jobs" bullshit.

Stop shitting your pants already, take the death grip off of your fucking Ann Coulter doll already, nobody (at least me) is talking about redistributing anything. I'm talking about evening the playing field.

If the rules were the same for everybody there would be no reason to redistribute wealth. Pay your fair share of taxes, a system of free markets that isn't predatory or protective, a larger middle class controlling a larger proportion of wealth - that same wealth that the vast minority of people hold us hostage over.

Yeah, I know - a concept that never enters your tiny little minds, never gets past the indoctrination.

You don't represent the poor or middle class. They need you like they need to drown in the ocean.

You resent the rich.

They pay most of this nations taxes and you are pissy about them.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:29 PM
Gawd, this Bob tool is a fucking annoying little gnat. He's going on ignore for now.

What a rube.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:30 PM
Middle classes are manipulated by both parties. Democrats keep the poor poor, great voting stock base. Republicans (and Democrats) keep the wealthy wealthy, they're not going to shit on their dinner plates.

The middle class foots the bill for both.

Actually Pete proved you are wrong. The middle class do not carry the load. The upper 90 percent carry it.

Democrats can't help the middle class or the poor. The Obama policies directly make rich richer. This is why they are getting richer.

Matty
04-15-2014, 05:30 PM
And this is the problem I have with discussing shit like this on forums like these, when the discussion is underway every bucket carrying, rich white guy ass kissing moron starts shitting the bed with "you're a progressive", "redistribution of wealth", "rich guys give us jobs" bullshit.

Stop shitting your pants already, take the death grip off of your fucking Ann Coulter doll already, nobody (at least me) is talking about redistributing anything. I'm talking about evening the playing field.

If the rules were the same for everybody there would be no reason to redistribute wealth. Pay your fair share of taxes, a system of free markets that isn't predatory or protective, a larger middle class controlling a larger proportion of wealth - that same wealth that the vast minority of people hold us hostage over.

Yeah, I know - a concept that never enters your tiny little minds, never gets past the indoctrination.
So you are for a flat tax? No exceptions, no excuses? No exemptions?

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:31 PM
Gawd, this Bob tool is a fucking annoying little gnat. He's going on ignore for now.

What a rube.

Thank you. I have been annoyed by you for months but being tolerant I wanted to see if you were going to be honest.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:31 PM
So you are for a flat tax? No exceptions, no excuses? No exemptions?

Where did I say that?

You people make a lot of assumptions.

Matty
04-15-2014, 05:32 PM
Gawd, this Bob tool is a fucking annoying little gnat. He's going on ignore for now.

What a rube.
Now now!

Matty
04-15-2014, 05:32 PM
Where did I say that?

You people make a lot of assumptions.
You said everyone should follow the same rules. Did you not?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:33 PM
Now now!

Yeah, sorry.

That guy is just fucking annoying with all that rhetorical cliche.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:33 PM
It's more of a testament to the shrinking middle class and expanding uber wealthy.

The middle class had jobs that robots replaced them. Sure they are shrinking but it is technology and not politics.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:35 PM
You said everyone should follow the same rules. Did you not?

I did, and I wasn't necessarily referring to the tax structure which I think would be a mistake to flatten.

I'm actually referring more to concepts like crony capitalism, the corporate/gubmint virtual 69 position, etc.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:35 PM
So you are for a flat tax? No exceptions, no excuses? No exemptions?

He is not for the fair tax. He would have said so were he for that. I happen to be for the FAIR tax.

Bob
04-15-2014, 05:40 PM
Assumptions from a fool - I never claimed to be a republican nor am I.

But don't let that get in the way of your idiotic rhetorical stereotyping.



When the teams are unevenly stacked like a kid playing a video game on cheat mode?

And I'm sure you're not even that kid cheating on the game, you're the tool sitting behind him watching.



I know you're one of those insecure types who can't possibly cope with the fact that there are others out there who don't subscribe to your RushBeck induced, bucket carrying indoctrinated political philosophy.

Pucker up big boy.



You'd make a good socialist, you sure you're not one, little Eichmann?

Now this is my gift to you, more attention than you really deserve. I tend to disregard the indoctrinated bucket carriers on the forum, their dull, repetitive, scripted and mindless nonsense is nothing I can't get from an hour on RW radio or from the rest of the throng of lemmings just like you.

So cherish this gift, you'll probably not see much attention from me at this point.

I am sorry forum, but what an arrogant sumbitch.

I wish no more of that person.

Matty
04-15-2014, 05:41 PM
I did, and I wasn't necessarily referring to the tax structure which I think would be a mistake to flatten.

I'm actually referring more to concepts like crony capitalism, the corporate/gubmint virtual 69 position, etc.
Okay! Here's a question or two I always like to ask democrats. A. What tax rate should the wealthy, and the corporations pay? Secondly, what will you replace the rich and the corporations with when you have succeeded in taxing them out of the country?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:49 PM
Okay! Here's a question or two I always like to ask democrats. A. What tax rate should the wealthy, and the corporations pay? Secondly, what will you replace the rich and the corporations with when you have succeeded in taxing them out of the country?

The answer to b) is fairly simple, the middle class. What's happening is the reverse of what you're describing - the middle class is being consumed by the uber wealthy.

The first question isn't a simple answer nor is it really a good question since you like Zelmo combined corporations with individuals. Those are two completely different structures. The simplest answer is a system that isn't overly-complicated like our current system is. Not a flat tax because IMO the tax structure should be designed to promote and penalize certain activities. It's been clusterfucked to death to the point that it's easily manipulated. The uber wealthy enjoy far more tax shelters and loopholes than the middle class do. If wealth were more evenly possessed a simpler plan not only would be understandable, it would probably be more fair.

Kalkin
04-15-2014, 05:49 PM
I did, and I wasn't necessarily referring to the tax structure which I think would be a mistake to flatten.
Why not have everyone be taxed at an equal rate?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:51 PM
Why not have everyone be taxed at an equal rate?

It's not that simple for one thing. And for reasons I described in the post above yours.

Matty
04-15-2014, 05:54 PM
The answer to b) is fairly simple, the middle class. What's happening is the reverse of what you're describing - the middle class is being consumed by the uber wealthy.

The first question isn't a simple answer nor is it really a good question since you like Zelmo combined corporations with individuals. Those are two completely different structures. The simplest answer is a system that isn't overly-complicated like our current system is. Not a flat tax because IMO the tax structure should be designed to promote and penalize certain activities. It's been clusterfucked to death to the point that it's easily manipulated. The uber wealthy enjoy far more tax shelters and loopholes than the middle class do. If wealth were more evenly possessed a simpler plan not only would be understandable, it would probably be more fair.
So if I understand you correctly, you say you will replace corporations and the rich with the middle class? Which leads me to ask, what it is you will grow the middle class with in the absence of corporations and the rich?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 05:56 PM
So if I understand you correctly, you say you will replace corporations and the rich with the middle class? Which leads me to ask, what it is you will grow the middle class with in the absence of corporations and the rich?

Why do you keep mixing corporations with the wealthy?

Wealth is wealth no matter who possesses/controls it. You have a retirement plan, right? I hope, then if you do you are a capitalist. The fact that it's your money keeping Verizon and Microsoft afloat is irrelevant to Microsoft and Verizon.

The wealthy and special interest bureaucrats want you to believe that your wealth needs to be possessed by the vast minority of wealthy in order for you to 9-5, and most of you do - which is why they have it and you don't.

Kalkin
04-15-2014, 05:59 PM
It's not that simple for one thing. And for reasons I described in the post above yours.
I saw that post. Just saying "it's not that simple" tells me nothing, tbh. We can make it that simple.

Matty
04-15-2014, 06:01 PM
Why do you keep mixing corporations with the wealthy?

Wealth is wealth no matter who possesses/controls it. You have a retirement plan, right? I hope, then if you do you are a capitalist. The fact that it's your money keeping Verizon and Microsoft afloat is irrelevant to Microsoft and Verizon.

The wealthy and special interest bureaucrats want you to believe that your wealth needs to be possessed by the vast minority of wealthy in order for you to 9-5, and most of you do - which is why they have it and you don't.
I am trying desperately to understand! What rate should corporations pay? My understanding is they already pay the highest rate in the world in the US.What is it? 35%?

Matty
04-15-2014, 06:02 PM
Then, what rate should the rich pay?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 06:05 PM
I am trying desperately to understand! What rate should corporations pay? My understanding is they already pay the highest rate in the world in the US.What is it? 35%?

Different tax structure.

In a global economy I suspect it should be competitive. Considering our standards of living differ widely in some cases globally I suspect this complicates things.

Considering our standard of living here is very high (and gradually eroding over the past, I dunno - 50 years maybe) and currently we consume more than we produce (like Greece, Spain), a simple structure probably won't do well.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 06:07 PM
Then, what rate should the rich pay?

In my opinion, a true graduated scale would work the best.

Much like the NFL draft system, give the lower middle-class guy the opportunity to succeed and tax the wealthy guy for the privilege of being wealthy. Not overly mind you, just enough to keep it somewhat fair.

The truly poor and needy should pay little or no taxes.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 06:07 PM
edit - a true TOTAL income/wealth graduated tax scale, not just income tax.

zelmo1234
04-15-2014, 06:14 PM
For one thing, you're blending business and personal income/wealth together. It's the first thing I'd separate to develop an understanding of your point.

And to be honest, your situation isn't really part of the argument I'm making. It sounds like you've been an entrepreneur to a degree and were successful at it. You claim that you qualify as a 1%er but I don't think you're really in the class of wealthy that I'm referring to.

In fact, the "middle class" should be more like what you're representing yourself to be IMO.

Well I am not a .01% if that is what you mean, but I am in the top.05% in income! And being I am the only owner of my business, business and personal taxes are the same for me!

Are you sure that you are a CPA, I would have thought that you would have known that!

The tax code is just screwy! If interest rates return to 1/2 of what they normally are, the USA becomes insolvent, this problem can't be resolved with Taxations, only spending and expanding the tax base can help this.

We must reform the system.

zelmo1234
04-15-2014, 06:23 PM
Why do you keep mixing corporations with the wealthy?

Wealth is wealth no matter who possesses/controls it. You have a retirement plan, right? I hope, then if you do you are a capitalist. The fact that it's your money keeping Verizon and Microsoft afloat is irrelevant to Microsoft and Verizon.

The wealthy and special interest bureaucrats want you to believe that your wealth needs to be possessed by the vast minority of wealthy in order for you to 9-5, and most of you do - which is why they have it and you don't.

This is the thinking that actually keeps people from realizing the American Dream!

Can you be Wealthy if you are a 9 to 5 employee? the answer is yes, but it is not easy. the steps that you would have to take make it so people are not willing to do it!

#1 You can never have Debt, other than a home and you should never purchase a home that can't be paid for in 10 years.

#2 You are going to have to invest 10 to 15% of your income in a retirement plan. Pensions if they still exist are not going to get you t their and SS is a promise of dire poverty!

#3 you are gong to have to save at least 5% of your take home so you can pay for cars and home repairs and healthcare instead of going into debt

Follow these steps and you will retire a wealthy person! This is why so few 9 to 5ers retire wealthy.

The alternative is to risk everything and become your own boss and then work your fingers to the bone for a long time until you finally can afford the perfect management team, And then you still have to work a lot to keep then on the right track!

Few people are willing to risk everything! those that do, are the reason that our country has grown to the largest economy in the world

Matty
04-15-2014, 06:25 PM
In my opinion, a true graduated scale would work the best.

Much like the NFL draft system, give the lower middle-class guy the opportunity to succeed and tax the wealthy guy for the privilege of being wealthy. Not overly mind you, just enough to keep it somewhat fair.

The truly poor and needy should pay little or no taxes.
Oh! I get it. You want to punish success!

Bob
04-15-2014, 06:26 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Captain Obvious http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=578636#post578636)
For one thing, you're blending business and personal income/wealth together. It's the first thing I'd separate to develop an understanding of your point.

And to be honest, your situation isn't really part of the argument I'm making. It sounds like you've been an entrepreneur to a degree and were successful at it. You claim that you qualify as a 1%er but I don't think you're really in the class of wealthy that I'm referring to.

In fact, the "middle class" should be more like what you're representing yourself to be IMO.


Well I am not a .01% if that is what you mean, but I am in the top.05% in income! And being I am the only owner of my business, business and personal taxes are the same for me!

Are you sure that you are a CPA, I would have thought that you would have known that!

The tax code is just screwy! If interest rates return to 1/2 of what they normally are, the USA becomes insolvent, this problem can't be resolved with Taxations, only spending and expanding the tax base can help this.

We must reform the system.

Clearly you are one who supports this country the most.

Since CO put me on ignore, I can play whack-a-mo with him and he won't bother me.

A good way to have them stop bothering you is they put you on filter.

I also wondered how a CPA could talk the way he does. One would think he had customers making over ten bucks per hour.

This country can prosper again. But so long as Democrats run the show, kiss our boots good bye.

Bob
04-15-2014, 06:29 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Captain Obvious http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=578725#post578725)
In my opinion, a true graduated scale would work the best.

Much like the NFL draft system, give the lower middle-class guy the opportunity to succeed and tax the wealthy guy for the privilege of being wealthy. Not overly mind you, just enough to keep it somewhat fair.

The truly poor and needy should pay little or no taxes.


Oh! I get it. You want to punish success!

I used to hope he did not mean that crap.
But alas, he does. He thinks by taking from a person, it creates more for others. It won't happen that way.

Take Obama. He could have turned over a billion dollars to we citizens. But who does he hand it to?

Ukraine. So, they need our money more than we do.

But that is democrats for you.

zelmo1234
04-15-2014, 06:33 PM
Oh! I get it. You want to punish success!

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!!! we have a winner!!!!! :)

But they still want us to keep all our investments here in the USA, keep all of our employee's and expand our business so that we have to hire more people.

They want us to pay all of our employees more, keep donating to charities, paying for the healthcare of our employee's! and pay more and more in taxes, and still spend as much as possible so the economy does not suffer?

Guess what, that is not going to happen! and then they get pissed at the rich!

Bob
04-15-2014, 06:34 PM
This is the thinking that actually keeps people from realizing the American Dream!

Can you be Wealthy if you are a 9 to 5 employee? the answer is yes, but it is not easy. the steps that you would have to take make it so people are not willing to do it!

#1 You can never have Debt, other than a home and you should never purchase a home that can't be paid for in 10 years.

#2 You are going to have to invest 10 to 15% of your income in a retirement plan. Pensions if they still exist are not going to get you t their and SS is a promise of dire poverty!

#3 you are gong to have to save at least 5% of your take home so you can pay for cars and home repairs and healthcare instead of going into debt

Follow these steps and you will retire a wealthy person! This is why so few 9 to 5ers retire wealthy.

The alternative is to risk everything and become your own boss and then work your fingers to the bone for a long time until you finally can afford the perfect management team, And then you still have to work a lot to keep then on the right track!

Few people are willing to risk everything! those that do, are the reason that our country has grown to the largest economy in the world

That is so wise. And so accurate.

I picked a career where I get a percent. By making people wealthy, I move up with them.

I have worked 7 days a week, 18 hr days and at times hoped it would work out.

So far, so good.

I also advise putting income into a savings account. Forget you have a large sum and only pay debts one incurs per month out of that account.

When you need a new car, pay cash. Some rich i know personally don't buy new cars. But the cars still look just like new. The let others pay for the depreciation.

Bob
04-15-2014, 06:39 PM
The answer to b) is fairly simple, the middle class. What's happening is the reverse of what you're describing - the middle class is being consumed by the uber wealthy.

The first question isn't a simple answer nor is it really a good question since you like Zelmo combined corporations with individuals. Those are two completely different structures. The simplest answer is a system that isn't overly-complicated like our current system is. Not a flat tax because IMO the tax structure should be designed to promote and penalize certain activities. It's been clusterfucked to death to the point that it's easily manipulated. The uber wealthy enjoy far more tax shelters and loopholes than the middle class do. If wealth were more evenly possessed a simpler plan not only would be understandable, it would probably be more fair.

That is a cluster fuck.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 06:41 PM
Oh! I get it. You want to punish success!

Not really, but moreso promote opportunity for those who don't have the privilege (and it is a privilege to be wealthy here).

Zero points for the Rushbot buzzword.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 06:43 PM
Well I am not a .01% if that is what you mean, but I am in the top.05% in income! And being I am the only owner of my business, business and personal taxes are the same for me!

Are you sure that you are a CPA, I would have thought that you would have known that!

The tax code is just screwy! If interest rates return to 1/2 of what they normally are, the USA becomes insolvent, this problem can't be resolved with Taxations, only spending and expanding the tax base can help this.

We must reform the system.

I am a CPA and yeah, it's how I recognized that you're mixing personal and business activity.

That's not the model that's being measured here for the most part. When people (this thread) talk about income tax it's generally earned income tax. Business taxes are a different element.

You should know that also.

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 06:45 PM
This is the thinking that actually keeps people from realizing the American Dream!

Can you be Wealthy if you are a 9 to 5 employee? the answer is yes, but it is not easy. the steps that you would have to take make it so people are not willing to do it!

#1 You can never have Debt, other than a home and you should never purchase a home that can't be paid for in 10 years.

#2 You are going to have to invest 10 to 15% of your income in a retirement plan. Pensions if they still exist are not going to get you t their and SS is a promise of dire poverty!

#3 you are gong to have to save at least 5% of your take home so you can pay for cars and home repairs and healthcare instead of going into debt

Follow these steps and you will retire a wealthy person! This is why so few 9 to 5ers retire wealthy.

The alternative is to risk everything and become your own boss and then work your fingers to the bone for a long time until you finally can afford the perfect management team, And then you still have to work a lot to keep then on the right track!

Few people are willing to risk everything! those that do, are the reason that our country has grown to the largest economy in the world

I get it, you have a personal success story, you are successful at it.

It's not the model for all activity in the free markets though, you're pigeonholing your argument.

Matty
04-15-2014, 06:46 PM
Not really, but moreso promote opportunity for those who don't have the privilege (and it is a privilege to be wealthy here).

Zero points for the Rushbot buzzword.
Why do you say it's a privilege when most people work their asses off to be well off or rich. It wasn't handed to most of us. I don't have a clue as to what you mean by Rushbot buzzword. Is that something you learned at politico? Or KOS? Or Media Matters?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 06:50 PM
Why do you say it's a privilege when most people work their asses off to be well off or rich. It wasn't handed to most of us. I don't have a clue as to what you mean by Rushbot buzzword. Is that something you learned at politico? Or KOS? Or Media Matters?

You clearly are not wealthy nor are you around really wealthy people.

I'm not ultra wealthy either but I've worked in those circles.

The wealthy class enjoys an exclusive privilege not enjoyed by those in the middle or upper middle class, or lower wealthy class for that matter. They have exclusive access to wealth opportunities, they have government in their pocket with lobby and special interest, they have teams of legal protection and advice, they have favorable tax benefits, influence, power, on and on.

If you're middle class, what do you have?

The opportunity to say that you're just another lemming in history that supported a vast minority controlling the vast majority of wealth and power - just like essentially every other society and civilization.

Congrats, you must be proud.

Bob
04-15-2014, 06:51 PM
Why do you say it's a privilege when most people work their asses off to be well off or rich. It wasn't handed to most of us. I don't have a clue as to what you mean by Rushbot buzzword. Is that something you learned at politico? Or KOS? Or Media Matters?

My mom worked hard in business. But for some strange reason as a youth, she gave me the idea that being rich was like you had a disease.

I get amused by those who take from the rich. They think they are doing good. They don't understand justice.

zelmo1234
04-15-2014, 06:52 PM
That is so wise. And so accurate.

I picked a career where I get a percent. By making people wealthy, I move up with them.

I have worked 7 days a week, 18 hr days and at times hoped it would work out.

So far, so good.

I also advise putting income into a savings account. Forget you have a large sum and only pay debts one incurs per month out of that account.

When you need a new car, pay cash. Some rich i know personally don't buy new cars. But the cars still look just like new. The let others pay for the depreciation.

My every day car is a 2004 F150, It is a really nice truck! but it was used when I bought it.

Now we do have 2 classic cars that would be expensive. but those are toys to us, not transportation!

You can't borrow money.

My son and his future wife work in the wildlife biology field, they are never going to get rich, but they don't pay interest. they even bought a home during the bottom of the recession and paid cash!

They are each putting 15% in their retirement with a matching 5/% from their employers. And are already saving for their unborn children's education!

They have no collage debt, no car debt and have an emergency fund! They have friends that are in debt up to your eyeballs and are having a good time poking fun at the way they live? But guess what.

They are close to having this home completely re-done, they are getting promotions at work, there savings is building.

They just too their tax refunds and upgraded there cars. still no debt. at age 26 they have over 75K in retirement savings. the home that they bought and paid cash they will sell and take that and purchase another fixer upper! In the area they want to live in!

If a few years they will have that completely redone with high quality products and they will sell that and buy the fixer upper farm they want. by the time they are in there early 30's they will be in the home they want and well on there way and everything will be paid for!

And of course when I kick the bucket they will get a boost, but it has allowed me to set up a trust that will make sure that the farm which is used as hunting property for the family will be paid for / for generations to come, as well as the upkeep! And still give them the blessing of being able to follow their wildest dreams.

This is what the American dream is about, despite what people like Sage will tell you!

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 06:55 PM
Why do you say it's a privilege when most people work their asses off to be well off or rich. It wasn't handed to most of us. I don't have a clue as to what you mean by Rushbot buzzword. Is that something you learned at politico? Or KOS? Or Media Matters?

And you keep trying to turn this into a right-wing/left-wing talking point issue.

Because it's all you know how to do.

Sociopolitical entrepreneurism doesn't start with robotic, institutionalized thinking. YOU are the reason why this class structure is no different than any significant society/civilization regardless of government structure in history.

YOU are the little Eichmann who has allowed yourself to be force-fed all this political propaganda bullshit, you vote for the same "Republican" statist term after term and support the crony capitalism system and gladly gobble the bread crusts tossed to you.

Yeah, sorry. Not me. But thanks for keeping the rest of us held hostage.

Matty
04-15-2014, 07:10 PM
My mom worked hard in business. But for some strange reason as a youth, she gave me the idea that being rich was like you had a disease.

I get amused by those who take from the rich. They think they are doing good. They don't understand justice.
Mr oblivious does't think business owners work.

Matty
04-15-2014, 07:12 PM
And you keep trying to turn this into a right-wing/left-wing talking point issue.

Because it's all you know how to do.

Sociopolitical entrepreneurism doesn't start with robotic, institutionalized thinking. YOU are the reason why this class structure is no different than any significant society/civilization regardless of government structure in history.

YOU are the little Eichmann who has allowed yourself to be force-fed all this political propaganda bullshit, you vote for the same "Republican" statist term after term and support the crony capitalism system and gladly gobble the bread crusts tossed to you.

Yeah, sorry. Not me. But thanks for keeping the rest of us held hostage.
So are you finally going to tell us what you would replace corporations with?

Captain Obvious
04-15-2014, 07:15 PM
This is a prime example of why the US will never be anything more than a crony capitalistic, corporately controlled, limited freedom society.

When you discuss fair and free markets you get canned, institutionalized rhetoric.

When you discuss a multi-party governance system with more actual representation for the people you get the lemmings who will robotically just vote party across the board because it's all they know.

We are no different than any other society or civilization, a collective of idiots.

Bob
04-15-2014, 07:15 PM
Mr oblivious does't think business owners work.

But but, he hates only the very rich. So he claims. The man should study economics and he would learn that removing cash from the rich is not handed over to anybody but the government then it spends on more and more and more.

Consider this argument. They whined about Bush spending. And Bush did spend. But nowhere near like Obama spends.

Clinton's top budget was under 2 trillion dollars. Bush's higher. So why do they want to spend more rather than go back to the Clinton budget they once loved so much?

Imagine if the public suddenly got a windfall of close to 2 trillion dollars. Obama could claim he is God and democrats would believe it.

Bob
04-15-2014, 07:16 PM
This is a prime example of why the US will never be anything more than a crony capitalistic, corporately controlled, limited freedom society.

When you discuss fair and free markets you get canned, institutionalized rhetoric.

When you discuss a multi-party governance system with more actual representation for the people you get the lemmings who will robotically just vote party across the board because it's all they know.

We are no different than any other society or civilization, a collective of idiots.

You are not having any luck getting your party elected. ha ha ha

Alyosha
04-15-2014, 07:17 PM
No matter what you try to do to tax the ultra wealthy they will avoid it. They have mobility that the rest of us don't have. So what will happen is that the lower end of the 1% (those families making $375k a year) to the 10% (families making $105k) will bear the brunt.

This happens every time.

If you keep this current system it will always happen. The system is lost the cabal of wealthy globalists and we are all pawns in their game. Those who hate bitcoin and real currency like gold or even livestock do themselves no favors. As long as you use their paper, their debit system, their reserve you're trapped.

Bob
04-15-2014, 07:18 PM
And you keep trying to turn this into a right-wing/left-wing talking point issue.

Because it's all you know how to do.

Sociopolitical entrepreneurism doesn't start with robotic, institutionalized thinking. YOU are the reason why this class structure is no different than any significant society/civilization regardless of government structure in history.

YOU are the little Eichmann who has allowed yourself to be force-fed all this political propaganda bullshit, you vote for the same "Republican" statist term after term and support the crony capitalism system and gladly gobble the bread crusts tossed to you.

Yeah, sorry. Not me. But thanks for keeping the rest of us held hostage.

I am sure glad I am not the target of his hateful shit.

Bob
04-15-2014, 07:23 PM
No matter what you try to do to tax the ultra wealthy they will avoid it. They have mobility that the rest of us don't have. So what will happen is that the lower end of the 1% (those families making $375k a year) to the 10% (families making $105k) will bear the brunt.

This happens every time.

If you keep this current system it will always happen. The system is lost the cabal of wealthy globalists and we are all pawns in their game. Those who hate bitcoin and real currency like gold or even livestock do themselves no favors. As long as you use their paper, their debit system, their reserve you're trapped.

I wish he named names to show who he hates.

Is it the uber rich Gates?

Does he know how much taxes Gates pays?

Maybe it is Warren Buffet. Again Warren pays huge taxes. He may pay a rate lower than a secretary. but the sum he pays might pay the wages of a thousand secretaries.

They are jealous and see the uber rich the wrong way.

I sold the home of a Microsoft worker so he could move to Washington to take a new job there. I suspect that his company made him very rich. And he was a salary worker. Good for Gates. He came up the ranks and made it big. I am not a bit jealous. He has created many millionaires. Good for Gates.

Matty
04-15-2014, 07:27 PM
This is a prime example of why the US will never be anything more than a crony capitalistic, corporately controlled, limited freedom society.

When you discuss fair and free markets you get canned, institutionalized rhetoric.

When you discuss a multi-party governance system with more actual representation for the people you get the lemmings who will robotically just vote party across the board because it's all they know.

We are no different than any other society or civilization, a collective of idiots.
So? Corporations will be replaced with _________________________.

Matty
04-15-2014, 07:28 PM
I wish he named names to show who he hates.

Is it the uber rich Gates?

Does he know how much taxes Gates pays?

Maybe it is Warren Buffet. Again Warren pays huge taxes. He may pay a rate lower than a secretary. but the sum he pays might pay the wages of a thousand secretaries.

They are jealous and see the uber rich the wrong way.

I sold the home of a Microsoft worker so he could move to Washington to take a new job there. I suspect that his company made him very rich. And he was a salary worker. Good for Gates. He came up the ranks and made it big. I am not a bit jealous. He has created many millionaires. Good for Gates.
He started in his little middle class garage didn't he? Shame on him for being so creative and successful.

Bob
04-15-2014, 07:40 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=578822#post578822)
I wish he named names to show who he hates.

Is it the uber rich Gates?

Does he know how much taxes Gates pays?

Maybe it is Warren Buffet. Again Warren pays huge taxes. He may pay a rate lower than a secretary. but the sum he pays might pay the wages of a thousand secretaries.

They are jealous and see the uber rich the wrong way.

I sold the home of a Microsoft worker so he could move to Washington to take a new job there. I suspect that his company made him very rich. And he was a salary worker. Good for Gates. He came up the ranks and made it big. I am not a bit jealous. He has created many millionaires. Good for Gates.



He started in his little middle class garage didn't he? Shame on him for being so creative and successful.

You must mean this garage of a mansion

6829

Kalkin
04-15-2014, 08:17 PM
the tax structure should be designed to promote and penalize certain activities. I couldn't disagree more. That's exactly what got us the mess we have now. Taxation is to fund constitutional government, not to promote the social agenda of the day or punish those you disagree with.

nic34
04-15-2014, 09:23 PM
Actually Pete proved you are wrong. The middle class do not carry the load. The upper 90 percent carry it.

Better tell your friend coonzie, cuz he's sure the wealthy hide their money so well that they pay little or nothing.....:laugh:

Captain Obvious
04-16-2014, 02:26 AM
I couldn't disagree more. That's exactly what got us the mess we have now. Taxation is to fund constitutional government, not to promote the social agenda of the day or punish those you disagree with.

Who said anything about promoting social agendas? Or social issues for that matter?

If you understood (basically) the tax code, your takeaway should have been an economic one.

patrickt
04-16-2014, 03:51 AM
The haters are in favor of ever higher taxes...on someone else, anyone else, but not them. We're all in the lifeboat together but only a few are going to row and bail.

Shoey
04-16-2014, 04:33 AM
As for more taxation, the US government has compiled over a $16+ trillion national debt which is nearly ten times greater than the general revenues that service this debt and roughly trillion dollar a year deficits adding to it that President Obama and the US congress refuse to address. First we need the budgetary cuts and we need dramatic cuts in government expenditures. Tax increases should only be a last resort to balancing the Federal budget and once all possible expenditure cuts have been made and not used merely to reduce the amount deficit. If they don't lead to an immediate elimination of the deficits then they cannot be justified. Simply raising taxes while continuing to spend more than the revenues of the government accomplishes virtually nothing as the national debt will continue to grow and it isn't the deficits per se that are the problem but instead it's the national debt that's the problem.

Peter1469
04-16-2014, 05:05 AM
Tax raises can't end our deficits. During the last election cycle, lots of proposals were advanced, and the worse case tax raising scenario would only increase tax revenues by ~$250M (but there was no consideration for the economic affects of those tax increases.)

Shoey
04-16-2014, 09:33 AM
Former President Bill Clinton, apace with a Republican controlled congress balanced four consecutive Federal budgets and surpluses, reduced the national debt and deficit spending while at the same time propelling job and economic growth. The marginal tax rates among the wealthiest of Americans during Clinton's 2nd term was roughly 35% - 38% Republican President Dwight Eisenhower balanced 3 Federal budgets during his 8 year tenure as President, reduced the deficit and created Federal budget surpluses. The marginal tax rates among the wealthiest of Americans during Eisenhower's 8 year tenure as President was nearly 92%


1956 $3.9 Billion Surplus $32.77 Billion Surplus R D D
1957 $3.4 Billion Surplus $27.64 Billion Surplus R D D
1958 $2.8 Billion Deficit $22.22 Billion Deficit R D D
1959 $12.8 Billion Deficit $100.79 Billion Deficit R D D
1960 $0.3 Billion Surplus $2.33 Billion Surplus R D D

http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php

Captain Obvious
04-16-2014, 09:36 AM
Shoey is like the tour bus guide giving historical updates over the loudspeaker during stops.

:laugh:

countryboy
04-16-2014, 09:43 AM
Former President Bill Clinton, apace with a Republican controlled congress balanced four consecutive Federal budgets and surpluses, reduced the national debt and deficit spending while at the same time propelling job and economic growth. The marginal tax rates among the wealthiest of Americans during Clinton's 2nd term was roughly 35% - 38% Republican President Dwight Eisenhower balanced 3 Federal budgets during his 8 year tenure as President, reduced the deficit and created Federal budget surpluses. The marginal tax rates among the wealthiest of Americans during Eisenhower's 8 year tenure as President was nearly 92%



http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php

That may have been the "tax rate" during Eisenhower, but virtually nobody paid that rate. There were many tax sheltering options available for the wealthy.

Shoey
04-16-2014, 10:01 AM
Tax raises can't end our deficits. During the last election cycle, lots of proposals were advanced, and the worse case tax raising scenario would only increase tax revenues by ~$250M (but there was no consideration for the economic affects of those tax increases.)

First we need the budgetary cuts and we need dramatic cuts in government expenditures. Tax increases should only be a last resort to balancing the Federal budget and once all possible expenditure cuts have been made and not used merely to reduce the amount deficit. If they don't lead to an immediate elimination of the deficits then they cannot be justified. Simply raising taxes while continuing to spend more than the revenues of the government accomplishes virtually nothing as the national debt will continue to grow and it isn't the deficits per se that are the problem but instead it's the national debt that's the problem.

Kalkin
04-16-2014, 10:03 AM
Who said anything about promoting social agendas? Or social issues for that matter?

If you understood (basically) the tax code, your takeaway should have been an economic one.
You said:

the tax structure should be designed to promote and penalize certain activities.

I don't care if it's social or economic activities, the tax code shouldn't be a whipping post for control freaks to selectively manipulate free citizens.

Matty
04-16-2014, 10:05 AM
Yeah! Why should taxes be used to penalize? Wtf?

Captain Obvious
04-16-2014, 10:38 AM
You said:

I don't care if it's social or economic activities, the tax code shouldn't be a whipping post for control freaks to selectively manipulate free citizens.

You didn't have to demonstrate that you don't understand the point, you simply could have said so.