Ancient People and their Known Locations.....

[MMC]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Tribes_of_Sicily_by_11th_century_BC.png/300px-Tribes_of_Sicily_by_11th_century_BC.png
Approximate locations of the Sicani and their neighbors, the Elymians (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Elymians) and the Sicels (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sicels), in Sicily (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sicily) around 11th century BC (before the arrival of the Phoenicians (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Phoenicians) and the Greeks (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient_Greece).

The Sicani (Greek (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient_Greek) Σικανοί Sikanoi) or Sicanians were one of three ancient peoples (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient_Italic_people) of Sicily (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sicily) present at the time of Phoenician (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Phoenicia) and Greek (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Greeks) colonization.
The Sicani are thought to be the oldest inhabitants of Sicily with a recorded name. The Greek historian Thucydides (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Thucydides) claimed they immigrated from the Iberian Peninsula (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Iberian_Peninsula) (perhaps Catalonia (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Catalonia)) driven by the Ligurians (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ligurians) from the river Sicanus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/w/index.php?title=Sicanus&action=edit&redlink=1), drawing his information from the Sicilian historian Antiochus of Syracuse (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Antiochus_of_Syracuse), but his basis for saying this is unknown. Important historical evidence has been discovered in the form of cave drawings by the Sicani, dated from the end of the Pleistocene Epoch (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Pleistocene_Epoch), around 8000 BC and this is probably the reason why Timaeus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Timaeus_(historian)) of Tauromenium (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tauromenium) considered them as aboriginal. Some modern scholars think the Sicani may have been an Illyrian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Illyrians) tribe that gained control of areas previously inhabited by native tribes. Archaeological excavation has shown that they had received some Mycenean (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Mycenean) influence.

The indigenous Sicilians were gradually absorbed by these colonizing peoples and finally disappeared as distinct peoples under Roman occupation.....snip~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicani

[wingrider]

http://bibleprobe.com/lost.htm

Bible Probers should note: We think the "Annals" of Irish History (Annals of Ulster, Annals of the Four Masters, etc.) are only reliably historical from 1,000 A.D. onwards. All material relating to time periods before the time of St. Patrick (430 A.D.) is legend. However, there is some truth contained in the "Annals" prior to 1,000 A.D. The "Annals" go back to about 444 A.D., but written copies date only from the 1400's. For instance in these Irish "Annals" there are 18 records of eclipses and comets which all agree exactly to the day and hour with the calculations of modern astronomers. The oldest piece of consecutive Irish preserved in Ireland is found in the "Book of Armaugh", written about the year 812. See possible historic lineage here (http://thepoliticalforums.com/lineage.htm). Conclusion. Take note that, Jeremiah's commission included "to build and to plant". Legend frequently is steeped in fact, no matter how confusing. The Lost tribes went somewhere...Perhaps Ireland and western Europe....or even southern Russia.

[MMC]

The Rasenna/Etruscans.....Part One.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Etruscan_civilization_map.png/250px-Etruscan_civilization_map.png
Extent of Etruscan civilization and the twelve Etruscan League cities.

Etruscan civilization is the modern English name given to a civilization of ancient Italy (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient_peoples_of_Italy) in the area corresponding roughly to Tuscany (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tuscany). The ancient Romans called its creators the Tusci or Etrusci. Their Roman name is the origin of the terms Tuscany, which refers to their heartland, and Etruria (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Etruria), which can refer to their wider region.
In Attic Greek (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Attic_Greek), the Etruscans were known as Τυρρηνοὶ (Tyrrhēnioi (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tyrrhenoi)), earlier Tyrsenoi, from which the Romans derived the names Tyrrhēni (Etruscans), Tyrrhēnia (Etruria), and Mare Tyrrhēnum (Tyrrhenian Sea (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tyrrhenian_Sea)). The Etruscans called themselves Rasenna, which was syncopated (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Syncope_(phonetics)) to Rasna or Raśna.
As distinguished by its unique language (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Etruscan_language), this civilization endured from the time of the earliest Etruscan inscriptions (ca. 700 BC) until its assimilation into the Roman Republic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Roman_Republic) in the 1st century BC. At its maximum extent, during the foundational period of Rome and the Roman kingdom (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Roman_kingdom), it flourished in three confederacies of cities: of Etruria, of the Po valley (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Po_valley) with the eastern Alps (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Alps), and of Latium (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Latium) and Campania (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Campania).[5] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-4) Rome was founded within or adjacent to Etruscan territory, and there is considerable evidence that early Rome was dominated by Etruscans until the Romans sacked Veii (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Veii) in 396 BC.
Culture that is identifiably Etruscan developed in Italy after about 800 BC (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/800_BC) approximately over the range of the preceding Iron Age (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Iron_Age) Villanovan culture (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Villanovan_culture). The latter gave way in the 7th century to a culture that was influenced by Greek traders and Greek neighbours in Magna Graecia (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Magna_Graecia), the Hellenic civilization (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Hellenic_civilization) of southern Italy. After 500 BC the political destiny of Italy passed out of Etruscan hands.

The origins of the Etruscans are lost in prehistory. Historians have no literature, no texts of religion or philosophy; therefore much of what is known about this civilization is derived from grave goods and tomb findings. The main hypotheses are that they are indigenous, probably stemming from the Villanovan culture (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Villanovan_culture) or from the Near East (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Near_East). Etruscan expansion was focused both to the north beyond the Apennines (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Apennines) and into Campania. Some small towns in the 6th century BC disappeared during this time, ostensibly consumed by greater, more powerful neighbours. However, it is certain that the political structure of the Etruscan culture was similar to, albeit more aristocratic than, Magna Graecia (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Magna_Graecia) in the south. The mining and commerce of metal, especially copper (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Copper) and iron (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Iron_(material)), led to an enrichment of the Etruscans and to the expansion of their influence in the Italian peninsula and the western Mediterranean (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Mediterranean) sea. Here their interests collided with those of the Greeks, especially in the 6th century BC, when Phoceans (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Phoceans) of Italy founded colonies along the coast of France (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/France), Spain (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Spain) and Corsica (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Corsica). This led the Etruscans to ally themselves with the Carthaginians (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Carthaginians), whose interests also collided with the Greeks.

In 480 BC, Etruria's ally Carthage was defeated by a coalition of Magna Graecia cities led by Syracuse (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Syracuse,_Italy). A few years later, in 474, Syracuse's tyrant Hiero (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Hiero_I_of_Syracuse) defeated the Etruscans at the Battle of Cumae (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Battle_of_Cumae). Etruria's influence over the cities of Latium (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Latium) and Campania weakened, and it was taken over by Romans and Samnites (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Samnites). In the 4th century, Etruria saw a Gallic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Gaul) invasion end its influence over the Po (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Po_River) valley and the Adriatic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Adriatic_Sea) coast. Meanwhile, Rome (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient_Rome) had started annexing Etruscan cities. This led to the loss of the Northern Etruscan provinces. Etruria was conquered by Rome in the 3rd century BC.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Etruscan_warrior_near_Viterbe_Italy_circa_500_BCE. jpg/220px-Etruscan_warrior_near_Viterbe_Italy_circa_500_BCE. jpg
Etruscan warrior, found near Viterbo (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Viterbo), Italy (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Italy), dated circa 500 BC.

The Etruscans, like the contemporary cultures of Ancient Greece (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient_Greece) and Ancient Rome (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient_Rome), had a significant military tradition. In addition to marking the rank and power of certain individuals in Etruscan culture, warfare was a considerable economic boon to Etruscan civilization. Like many ancient (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient) societies, the Etruscans conducted campaigns during summer months, raiding neighboring areas, attempting to gain territory and combating piracy as a means of acquiring valuable resources such as land, prestige, goods, and slaves. It is also likely individuals taken in battle would be ransomed back to their families and clans at high cost. Prisoners could also potentially be sacrificed on tombs as an honor to fallen leaders of Etruscan society, not unlike the sacrifices made by Achilles (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Achilles) for Patrocles (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Patrocles).....snip~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization#Legend_and_history

[Mister D]

Genetic evidence


In 2004 a team from Italy (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Italy) and Spain (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Spain) undertook a genetic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Introduction_to_genetics) study of the Etruscans, based on mitochondrial DNA (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA) (mtDNA) from 80 bone samples taken from tombs (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tomb) dating from the seventh century to the third century BC in Etruria (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Etruria).[17] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-16) This study found that the ancient DNA extracted from the Etruscan remains had some affininties with modern European populations including Tuscans in Italy. In addition the Etruscan samples possibly revealed more genetic inheritance from the eastern and southern Mediterranean than modern Italian samples contain. Hans-Jürgen Bandelt expressed concern about the methodology used in the study, saying "it is unclear to what extent the “Etruscan” data represent severely damaged or partly contaminated mtDNA sequences; therefore, any comparison with modern population data must be considered quite hazardous."[18] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-17)
A more recent study has suggested a Near Eastern (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Near_East) origin.[19] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-18) The researchers conclude that their data, taken from the modern Tuscan population, 'support the scenario of a post-Neolithic genetic input from the Near East to the present-day population of Tuscany’. In the absence of any dating evidence there is however no direct link between this genetic input and the Etruscans.
A 2007 mtDNA study sampled a group from the Coriell Medical Institute containing DNA samples from a small town near Florence. The results found a Near Eastern cluster. However the samples were not considered to be genetically "atypical".[20] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-19)[21] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-20)
Another study showed that the areas of historical Etruscan occupation share a relatively high concentration of y-haplogroup G (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Haplogroup_G_(Y-DNA)) with Anatolians (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Anatolia), and the people of Caucasus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Caucasus), where the haplogroup reaches its greatest presence, particularly amongst the Ossetians (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ossetia) and Georgians (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Georgia_(country)). This evidence is not specific to any period or calendar date, and might reflect contiguous populations or significant migration far back in the Stone Age (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Stone_Age).
Another team of Italian researchers showed that the mtDNA of cattle (Bos taurus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Bos_taurus)) in modern Tuscany (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tuscany) is different from that of cattle normally found elsewhere in Italy, and even in Europe as a whole.[22] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-21)[23] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-22)[24] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-23). An autochthonous population that diverged genetically was suggested as a possibility by Cavalli-Sforza.[25] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-24) The mtDNA is similar to that of cattle typically found in the Near East. Many tribes who have migrated in the past have typically taken their livestock with them as they moved. This bovine (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Bovine) mtDNA study suggests that at least some people whose descendants were Etruscans made their way to Italy from Anatolia or other parts of the Near East. However, the study gives no clue as to when they might have done so. There is the possibility that Etruscan civilization arose locally with maritime (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sailing) contacts from all across the Mediterranean, and the genetic presence could have been all along since the Neolithic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Neolithic) and the expansion of the seaborne Cardium Pottery (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Cardium_Pottery) cultures of same origin.
Another study by geneticist Alberto Piazza of the University of Turin (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/University_of_Turin) linked the Etruscans to Turkey. The team compared DNA sequences with those from men in modern Turkey, northern Italy, the Greek island of Lemnos (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Lemnos), the Italian islands of Sicily (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sicily) and Sardinia (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sardinia) and the southern Balkans (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Balkans). They found that the genetic sequences of the Tuscan men varied significantly from those of men in surrounding regions in Italy, and that the men from Murlo (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Murlo) and Volterra (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Volterra) were the most closely related to men from Turkey. In Murlo in particular, one genetic variant is shared only by people from Turkey.[26] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-25)[27] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-26)[28] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-27)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_origins#Genetic_evidence

[Mister D]

I think the Near Eastern/Anatolian connection is the strongest right now.

[Mister D]

I take it that the term Sicily is derived from the name for this Italic tribe called the Sicels.

[MMC]

Part two.....The Etruscans.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Etruscan_mother_and_child_500_to_450_BCE.jpg/220px-Etruscan_mother_and_child_500_to_450_BCE.jpg
Etrucan mother and child, 500-450BC.
Those who subscribe to an Italic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient_Italic_peoples) foundation of Rome, followed by an Etruscan invasion, typically speak of an Etruscan “influence” on Roman culture; that is, cultural objects that were adopted at Rome from neighbouring Etruria. The prevalent view today is that Rome was founded by Italics and merged with Etruscans later. In that case Etruscan cultural objects are not a heritage but are influences.

The main criterion for deciding whether an object originated at Rome and traveled by influence to the Etruscans, or descended to the Romans from the Etruscans, is date. Many, if not most, of the Etruscan cities were older than Rome. If one finds that a given feature was there first, it cannot have originated at Rome. A second criterion is the opinion of the ancient sources. These would indicate that certain institutions and customs came directly from the Etruscans. Rome is located on the edge of what was Etruscan territory. When Etruscan settlements turned up south of the border, it was presumed that the Etruscans spread there after the foundation of Rome, but the settlements are now known to have preceded Rome.

The historical Etruscans had achieved a state (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sovereign_state) system of society, with remnants of the chiefdom (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Chiefdom) and tribal forms. In this they were different from the surrounding Italics, who had chiefs (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tribal_chief) and tribes. Rome was in a sense the first Italic state, but it began as an Etruscan one. It is believed that the Etruscan government style changed from total monarchy (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Monarchy) to oligarchic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Oligarchic) republic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Republic) (as the Roman Republic) in the 6th century BC, while it is important to note this did not happen to all the city states.

The Etruscan state government was essentially a theocracy (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Theocracy). The government was viewed as being a central authority, over all tribal and clan organizations. It retained the power of life and death; in fact, the gorgon (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Gorgon), an ancient symbol of that power, appears as a motif in Etruscan decoration. The adherents to this state power were united by a common religion. Political unity in Etruscan society was the city-state, which was probably the referent of methlum, “district”. Etruscan texts name quite a number of magistrates (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Magistrate), without much of a hint as to their function: the camthi, the parnich, the purth, the tamera, the macstrev, and so on. The people were the mech. The chief ruler of a methlum was perhaps a zilach.

Knowledge of the Etruscan language is still far from complete. The Etruscans are believed to have spoken a non-Indo-European (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Indo-European_languages) language; the majority consensus is that Etruscan is related only to other members of what is called the Tyrsenian language family (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tyrsenian_languages), which in itself is an isolate family (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Language_isolate), that is, unrelated directly to other known language groups. Since Rix (1998) it is widely accepted that the Tyrsenian family groups Rhaetic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Raetic_language) and Lemnian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Lemnian_language) are related to Etruscan.
No etymology exists for Rasna, the Etruscans' name for themselves. The etymology of Tusci is based on a beneficiary phrase in the third Iguvine tablet (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Iguvine_Tables), which is a major source for the Umbrian language (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Umbrian_language). The phrase is turskum ... nomen, "the Tuscan name", from which a root *Tursci can be reconstructed.[21] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-20) A metathesis and a word-initial epenthesis produce E-trus-ci.[22] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-21) A common hypothesis is that *Turs- along with Latin turris, "tower", come from Greek (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ancient_Greek) τύρσις, "tower." The Tusci were therefore the "people who build towers" or "the tower builders." This venerable etymology is at least as old as Dionysius of Halicarnassus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Dionysius_of_Halicarnassus), who said "And there is no reason that the Greeks should not have called them by this name, both from their living in towers and from the name of one of their rulers."
Giuliano (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Giuliano_Bonfante) and Larissa Bonfante (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Larissa_Bonfante) (Bonfante 2002) speculate that Etruscan houses seemed like towers to the simple Latins. It is true that the Etruscans preferred to build hill towns on high precipices enhanced by walls. On the other hand if the Tyrrhenian name came from an incursion of sea peoples (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sea_peoples) or later migrants then it might well be related to the name of Troy (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Troy), the city of towers in that case.....snip~

I think some considered them Sea peoples as well. Plus I noted that they also liked to use axes to fight with in battle. Spear and Shield. Think they could have been the Sea peoples mentioned in the Bible?

[MMC]

I take it that the term Sicily is derived from the name for this Italic tribe called the Sicels.

I think so. Either way the term comes from the Italics.

[Conley]

I take it that the term Sicily is derived from the name for this Italic tribe called the Sicels.

Italic... Is that where it comes from? My mind is blown!

[Mister D]

Yeah, Italy is derived from Italic and Sicily from Sicels.

[Conley]

Yeah, Italy is derived from Italic and Sicily from Sicels.

Got it...but I mean is that where italics come from? :grin:

[MMC]

The Etruscans were into fine jewlery too. Not much on if they had a Navy.

[Mister D]

Got it...but I mean is that where italics come from? :grin:

Oh, LOL I have no idea.

[Peter1469]

A fun read. Thanks for the link.

[MMC]

The Ubaidians.....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Map_Ubaid_culture-en.svg/450px-Map_Ubaid_culture-en.svg.png

The Ubaid period (ca. 6500 to 3800 BC) is a prehistoric (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Prehistory) period of Mesopotamia (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Mesopotamia). The tell (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tell) (mound)Coordinates (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Geographic_coordinate_system): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/WMA_button2b.png/17px-WMA_button2b.png30°58′N 46°05′E / 30.967°N 46.083°E / 30.967; 46.083 (http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Ubaid_period&params=30_58_N_46_05_E_) of al-`Ubaid (Arabic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Arabic_language): العبيد‎) west of nearby Ur (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ur) in southern Iraq (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Iraq)'s Dhi Qar Governorate (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Dhi_Qar_Governorate) has given its name to the prehistoric (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Prehistoric) Pottery Neolithic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Pottery_Neolithic) to Chalcolithic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Chalcolithic) culture, which represents the earliest settlement on the alluvial plain (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Alluvial_plain) of southern Mesopotamia. The Ubaid culture had a long duration beginning before 5300 BC and lasting until the beginning of the Uruk period (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Uruk_period), c. 4000 BC. The adoption of the wheel (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Wheel) and the beginning of the Chalcolithic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Chalcolithic) period fall into the Ubaid period.


Ubaid culture is characterized by large village settlements, characterized by multi-roomed rectangular mud-brick houses and the appearance of the first temples of public architecture in Mesopotamia, with a growth of a two tier settlement hierarchy of centralized large sites of more than 10 hectares surrounded by smaller village sites of less than 1 hectare. Domestic equipment included a distinctive fine quality buff or greenish colored pottery decorated with geometric designs in brown or black paint; tools such as sickles (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sickle) were often made of hard fired clay (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Clay) in the south. But in the north, stone and sometimes metal were used.
During the Ubaid Period [5000 B.C.– 4000 B.C.], the movement towards urbanization began. "Agriculture and animal husbandry [domestication] were widely practiced in sedentary communities." There were also tribes that practiced domesticating animals as far north as Turkey, and as far south as the Zagros Mountains (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Zagros_Mountains).....snip~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubaid_period


The first to settle in Mesopatamia. There before the Sumerians or the Hittites. Before Jews, Egyptians, and any Arabs. Before any man-made religion.

[Carygrant]

Do we have a team of amazingly well read amateur Historians or just a group immersed in Wiki ?
Regardless , it is most interesting .

[MMC]

Do we have a team of amazingly well read amateur Historians or just a group immersed in Wiki ?
Regardless , it is most interesting .

Nah Mr Grant.....I just started off with something easy. I thought about using Britannica or Colliers some other Specialty Books. But since the Wiki was referenced I figured why not go with the flow. :wink:

[Peter1469]

Do we have a team of amazingly well read amateur Historians or just a group immersed in Wiki ?
Regardless , it is most interesting .

Wiki is perfectly acceptable for non controversial topics.

[wingrider]

http://www.eternalthroneofdavid.com/losttentribes.htm


I found this to be an interesting site and pretty informative

[Carygrant]

Nothing about Atlantis yet ?
I am researching my forebears and we have an Atlantis type reference but need new sources .

[MMC]

Nothing about Atlantis yet ?
I am researching my forebears and we have an Atlantis type reference but need new sources .


Afraid not Mr Grant.....nor on the Picts, Sea-peoples, or any of those that inhabitated Muj and Lemuria. As a matter of fact I don't even recall Atlantis being brought up in the Ancient Civilizations and Ancient Aliens threads even. As you can see there are only a few that are into history.

[shaarona]

Wonderful thread..........

[Ivan88]

When the Romans conquered the Etruscans, they really did not. In effect they did like John Hyranus of Palestine did to the Edomites, he incorporated the survivors into the kingdom of Judea.

Later the Edomites took over both the priesthood and the kingship.

The same thing happened in Rome.

That is why the Apostle Paul was killed, and why the Romans were spurred to hassle the Christians, and the hidden Etruscan influence was also behind the establishment of the Vatican.

Judging from what happened in Roman history, it is a good guess that the Etruscans were a branch of the Edomite group.

[DonGlock26]

The Etruscans were into fine jewlery too. Not much on if they had a Navy.

They did. They were defeated by Greeks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alalia

[DonGlock26]

I think the Near Eastern/Anatolian connection is the strongest right now.


If that's true, then many of the customs and religious practices of the Etruscans, that they transmitted to the Romans, could go back ancient Turkey and Man's distant past.

[Mister D]

If that's true, then many of the customs and religious practices of the Etruscans, that they transmitted to the Romans, could go back ancient Turkey and Man's distant past.

In one form or another they probably do. The Latin peoples probably migrated from that general area themselves in the distant past.

There was a great deal of overlap between the Etruscan, Greek, and Roman pantheons, for example.

[DonGlock26]

In one form or another they probably do. The Latin peoples probably migrated from that general area themselves in the distant past.

There was a great deal of overlap between the Etruscan, Greek, and Roman pantheons, for example.


I'm interested in ancient history in general. I do wonder how much of the neolithic religion/culture survived and was carried to the Italian peninsula and into our historical knowledge.

[Mister D]

I'm interested in ancient history in general. I do wonder how much of the neolithic religion/culture survived and was carried to the Italian peninsula and into our historical knowledge.

In some form I would imagine it lived on in Classical culture and continues to live on in some of our cultural attitudes/perspectives in spite of Christianity. Fascinating question, actually.

[DonGlock26]

In some form I would imagine it lived on in Classical culture and continues to live on in some of our cultural attitudes/perspectives in spite of Christianity. Fascinating question, actually.

Are you aware of
Göbekli Tepe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

It is breathtaking.

[Calypso Jones]

Do you have dates for this Etruscan Civilization?

[DonGlock26]

Do you have dates for this Etruscan Civilization?

No one is sure about their beginning. Probably, sometime in the late Bronze Age to early Iron Age. They may be descended from an earlier group called the Villanovan culture. Scholars can only read a little bit of their language. The best sources of information are their tombs and the writings of the ancient Greek historians. They were absorbed by Rome early on (3rd cen B.C.), but there is some mention of them as late as the 1st century A.D. (if memory serves). They were influenced by Greek culture and in turn influenced Rome.

[Calypso Jones]

I know the dates. about 775BC to maybe about 1AD. Know what i find so funny about this. Etruscans and that is not even what they called themselves, have left very little about their culture and yet the 'scientific' world jumps all over it wif bof feet.
and while they do that they ignore the existing culture of Israel and Judah at that time that were far more advanced.

I just find it funny is all.

[DonGlock26]

I know the dates. about 775BC to maybe about 1AD. Know what i find so funny about this. Etruscans and that is not even what they called themselves, have left very little about their culture and yet the 'scientific' world jumps all over it wif bof feet.
and while they do that they ignore the existing culture of Israel and Judah at that time that were far more advanced.

I just find it funny is all.


Well, archeology is really not that old, and those lands were controlled by the Ottoman Empire when the early archeologists were starting to take a serious look at ancient Greece and Rome. We have really only scratched the surface of the past. There was definitely a Eurocentric view of the world, but that was a sign of the times. There are plenty of digs in Israel. Jericho is very interesting and extremely ancient.

[Mister D]

Are you aware of
Göbekli Tepe?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe

It is breathtaking.

Yeah, I've heard a little about it but not too much. 9000 BC. Pretty cool.

[Mister D]

I know the dates. about 775BC to maybe about 1AD. Know what i find so funny about this. Etruscans and that is not even what they called themselves, have left very little about their culture and yet the 'scientific' world jumps all over it wif bof feet.
and while they do that they ignore the existing culture of Israel and Judah at that time that were far more advanced.

I just find it funny is all.

Archaeologists ignore the Levant? How could you have come to this determination? Egypt and the Levant have always been a favored area of research.

[Calypso Jones]

Archaeologists ignore the Levant? How could you have come to this determination? Egypt and the Levant have always been a favored area of research.



In earlier times like late 1800s and maybe up to WWII but decreasing from WWI it seems to me. * There WAS a time when that area was of extreme interest (i'm limiting that to biblical evidence) and many of the clues were found in the Old Testament. intentionally. Seems anymore if the bible is mentioned as a possible source it is automatically discounted. And if the research does pan out from either a clue in the Bible or a new finding gives more cred to the bible then it is not given recognition or if any begrudgingly. Seems that way to me. I'm sure an atheist or secularist or an apostate would see that differently.

[Mister D]

In earlier times like late 1800s and maybe up to WWII but decreasing from WWI it seems to me. * There WAS a time when that area was of extreme interest (i'm limiting that to biblical evidence) and many of the clues were found in the Old Testament. intentionally. Seems anymore if the bible is mentioned as a possible source it is automatically discounted. And if the research does pan out from either a clue in the Bible or a new finding gives more cred to the bible then it is not given recognition or if any begrudgingly. Seems that way to me. I'm sure an atheist or secularist or an apostate would see that differently.

Generally speaking, there are two camps: minimalists and maximalists.

http://www.livius.org/th/theory/theory-maximalists.html

I disagree. I thin biblical archaeology remains very popular.