Oregon court says pets are property, reverses neglect conviction

[Kabuki Joe]

...I agree with this...


http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20140418/NEWS/304180032/Oregon-court-says-pets-property-reverses-neglect-conviction

[Peter1469]

Some national veterinarian groups were for this as well. If we give pets "person-hood" the cost for veterinary care would increase so much, most pets would never see a vet.

[Matty]

It already costs more to see a vet.

[Matty]

Life is cheap to a liberal.

[Peter1469]

Animals with human rights disturbs veterinarians. (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/animals-with-human-rights-will-be-more-than-a-pet-peeve-for-researchers/)


It also disturbs veterinarians who fear a flood of expensive malpractice suits if pets are worth more than their simple economic value. David Grimm, deputy news editor for Science magazine, explores this movement in his book Citizen Canine: Our Evolving Relationship with Cats and Dogs (http://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Canine-Evolving-Relationship-Cats/dp/1610391330/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397740040&sr=8-1&keywords=david+grimm) (PublicAffairs Books, 2014), published last week. He explained to Scientific American why scientists and animal doctors have good reason to be concerned.

[Kabuki Joe]

Some national veterinarian groups were for this as well. If we give pets "person-hood" the cost for veterinary care would increase so much, most pets would never see a vet.


...I remember reading a piece written by a libraltarian after the Michael Vick thing and he said, from a libertarian standpoint, that he likened it to throwing a broken computer out a window and having it smash to pieces...he asked, "would you throw this guy in jail for destroying his property?...no...then why do it to Vick for destroying his property?"...this is a tough argument to get in to...I mean I keep my dogs, well when I was working them which I haven't done in a while, very lean...or skinny to the average animal lover...I mean if it's bad for a person to be OBESE, then it should be the same for a dog....or cat...so I don't like telling people how to treat their animals because I don't want them to tell me...even if I don't agree with what someone does with their animals, it's none of my business...

[sachem]

Property, yes. A living creature, yes. They deserve protection. Not human rights, but the right not to be abused or neglected.

[Common Sense]

...I remember reading a piece written by a libraltarian after the Michael Vick thing and he said, from a libertarian standpoint, that he likened it to throwing a broken computer out a window and having it smash to pieces...he asked, "would you throw this guy in jail for destroying his property?...no...then why do it to Vick for destroying his property?"...this is a tough argument to get in to...I mean I keep my dogs, well when I was working them which I haven't done in a while, very lean...or skinny to the average animal lover...I mean if it's bad for a person to be OBESE, then it should be the same for a dog....or cat...so I don't like telling people how to treat their animals because I don't want them to tell me...even if I don't agree with what someone does with their animals, it's none of my business...

This is an eye opener on your psyche...

So if someone is beating their dog, you would do nothing? It's just property.

Huh....

[Kabuki Joe]

This is an eye opener on your psyche...

So if someone is beating their dog, you would do nothing? It's just property.

Huh....


..."even if I don't agree with what someone does with their animals, it's none of my business"...

[MrJimmyDale]

I chewed a cow to pieces this weekend!!!!!!!!!!

[Perianne]

...I remember reading a piece written by a libraltarian after the Michael Vick thing and he said, from a libertarian standpoint, that he likened it to throwing a broken computer out a window and having it smash to pieces...he asked, "would you throw this guy in jail for destroying his property?...no...then why do it to Vick for destroying his property?"

And that is an example of why libertarians will never will elections.

[Common Sense]

..."even if I don't agree with what someone does with their animals, it's none of my business"...


That's fucked up...


If I see an injustice like someone beating a dog (not correcting it but beating it) or a dog left out on a short leash with no water, damn right I'm going to say and do something. It is my business.

[The Sage of Main Street]

...I remember reading a piece written by a libraltarian after the Michael Vick thing and he said, from a libertarian standpoint, that he likened it to throwing a broken computer out a window and having it smash to pieces...he asked, "would you throw this guy in jail for destroying his property?...no...then why do it to Vick for destroying his property?"...this is a tough argument to get in to...I mean I keep my dogs, well when I was working them which I haven't done in a while, very lean...or skinny to the average animal lover...I mean if it's bad for a person to be OBESE, then it should be the same for a dog....or cat...so I don't like telling people how to treat their animals because I don't want them to tell me...even if I don't agree with what someone does with their animals, it's none of my business...

Vick's dogs were a special breed of natural-born killers. He was doing them a favor by letting them tear each other apart. They aren't really dogs; they are more like wolves, a vicious predator that ought to be exterminated.

[The Xl]

As a libertarian, I reject the notion that pets are merely property and can be abused however the owner sees fit, under the same rational that children, also considered "property," cannot be abused.

[The Xl]

And that is an example of why libertarians will never will elections.

I'm extremely libertarian, a strong minarchist with anarchist leanings in some respects, and I believe the rational used by those libertarians to be total bullshit. Maybe I'm the anomaly among libertarians on this issue here, I don't know, or care, frankly. I don't think their logic holds up here.

I will say, you are right though. Many libertarians won't win people over with views like that.

[Common Sense]

I will say, you are right though. Many libertarians won't win people over with views like that.

No shit....

[The Xl]

No shit....

Yes, these are things common folk will never get behind.

However, they have the more ethical and rational views on pretty much every other issue when compared to the Republicrats.

[pragmatic]

It already costs more to see a vet.

uhhh, no it doesn't...

[Matty]

uhhh, no it doesn't...
Where I live it does

[pragmatic]

Some national veterinarian groups were for this as well. If we give pets "person-hood" the cost for veterinary care would increase so much, most pets would never see a vet.

Don't believe this ruling is going to in any way negatively impact the protection of animals from abuse. Animals will still have protection from cruelty/neglect. And abusers will still be prosecuted.

The court ruling was only addressing a technicality in the conducting of the search. And it sounds like the court make the correct call.

[1751_Texan]

...I agree with this...


http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20140418/NEWS/304180032/Oregon-court-says-pets-property-reverses-neglect-conviction

Murder procecutions have been thrown out because police violated the suspects constitutional rights.

did the murdered victim have no rights or did the suspects rights trump all illegally obtained "evidence"

This case was not that the pet did not have rights; the suspected pet neglector's rights... according to the court, were violated.

[Peter1469]

Don't believe this ruling is going to in any way negatively impact the protection of animals from abuse. Animals will still have protection from cruelty/neglect. And abusers will still be prosecuted.

The court ruling was only addressing a technicality in the conducting of the search. And it sounds like the court make the correct call.

I am talking about the general push for person-hood rights for animals. The national veterinarian organizations are against it, because the cost of vet care will skyrocket and many if not most of pet owners will stop taking their animals to the vet.

I don't own a pet, but if I did money wouldn't be an issue for me so far as pet care goes, so the issue doesn't affect me.

[Dr. Who]

Some national veterinarian groups were for this as well. If we give pets "person-hood" the cost for veterinary care would increase so much, most pets would never see a vet.

I read the opinion. The State never implied personhood on the part of the dog, but was arguing that as the blood and fecal sampling was a secondary result of veterinarian providing the dog medical care, the results which showed evidence of malnourishment should be accepted as the basis of a misdemeanor criminal charge. The appellate court opined that while the officer had cause to take the dog into protection, it did require a warrant to obtain information that was not apparent to the naked eye, based on jurisprudence regarding the legal search of property. As an example the Court referred to a police officer examining a pocket knife that was visible upon being allowed into a premises. Anything on the outside of that pocket knife without manipulating the knife can be used as evidence, but any evidence concealed within the knife and only visible when the knife was opened could not be used as evidence, without violating the Constitutional right to privacy.

[Peter1469]

I read the opinion. The State never implied personhood on the part of the dog, but was arguing that as the blood and fecal sampling was a secondary result of veterinarian providing the dog medical care, the results which showed evidence of malnourishment should be accepted as the basis of a misdemeanor criminal charge. The appellate court opined that while the officer had cause to take the dog into protection, it did require a warrant to obtain information that was not apparent to the naked eye, based on jurisprudence regarding the legal search of property. As an example the Court referred to a police officer examining a pocket knife that was visible upon being allowed into a premises. Anything on the outside of that pocket knife without manipulating the knife can be used as evidence, but any evidence concealed within the knife and only visible when the knife was opened could not be used as evidence, without violating the Constitutional right to privacy.

I was not referring to any particular case. I was referring to the general movement to obtain person-hood status for pets, and the national veterinarian's opinion on what they would create- most pets with no health care.

[Dr. Who]

I was not referring to any particular case. I was referring to the general movement to obtain person-hood status for pets, and the national veterinarian's opinion on what they would create- most pets with no health care.

I didn't realize that there was such a movement.

[Peter1469]

I didn't realize that there was such a movement.

Small but growing. Every now and then you will get a court case where the plaintiff is supposedly a dolphin, or something like that.

[Dr. Who]

Small but growing. Every now and then you will get a court case where the plaintiff is supposedly a dolphin, or something like that.
I can see huge ramifications were personhood recognized.

[Peter1469]

I can see huge ramifications were personhood recognized.

Yes. The link in my first comment included one such problem. Most people would stop taking their pets to the vet.

[Dr. Who]

Yes. The link in my first comment included one such problem. Most people would stop taking their pets to the vet.
You would also get into a debate as to the sentience and therefore personhood worthiness of different species.

[Matty]

Hell, we can't even get personhood for our unborn babies!

[Peter1469]

Right. I think the concept of person-hood for animals is silly. But prior to this post, my only point was the veterinarian issue. That this movement would lead to the vast majority of pets without vets (doctors). Because most people wouldn't spend than much money on animals.


You would also get into a debate as to the sentience and therefore personhood worthiness of different species.

[Dr. Who]

Right. I think the concept of person-hood for animals is silly. But prior to this post, my only point was the veterinarian issue. That this movement would lead to the vast majority of pets without vets (doctors). Because most people wouldn't spend than much money on animals.

To be honest, as a pet owner, many of the vaccines that are touted as being essential to pet health are a load of crap, and a mainstay of the veterinary world. Unless your pet runs wild on the street, most of the vaccines beyond the early ones are more harmful than good, but they allow vets to charge money for regular visits. If anything harms pets (specifically cats and dogs), it's pet food which is full of things that the pet can't even digest or if it can, leads to obesity and malnutrition. The primary reason for vet care are the things that we inflict on our pets that result in disease resulting in expensive vet care. Once upon a time when pet food consisted of the less desirable parts of poultry, beef, chicken and horsemeat, pets were healthy. Unfortunately for pets, those undesirable parts either became popular with humans or became part of the pink slime that is sold as hamburger - irrespective of species, so pet food manufacturers developed dry food which was and is primarily grain and inferior meat protein. Since that time, veterinary medicine has become big business.

[Kabuki Joe]

Right. I think the concept of person-hood for animals is silly. But prior to this post, my only point was the veterinarian issue. That this movement would lead to the vast majority of pets without vets (doctors). Because most people wouldn't spend than much money on animals.


...my wife's dad had a dog that lived for over 15 years; he never went to the vet once, never ate dog food (lived off scraps), never went for a walk, never had a bath, just lived out in the back yard...I mean he was just a dog and he lived a dog's life...weird...

[Dr. Who]

...my wife's dad had a dog that lived for over 15 years; he never went to the vet once, never ate dog food (lived off scraps), never went for a walk, never had a bath, just lived out in the back yard...I mean he was just a dog and he lived a dog's life...weird...He probably lived as long as he did because he didn't eat dog food.

[Kabuki Joe]

Murder procecutions have been thrown out because police violated the suspects constitutional rights.

did the murdered victim have no rights or did the suspects rights trump all illegally obtained "evidence"

This case was not that the pet did not have rights; the suspected pet neglector's rights... according to the court, were violated.


....what's the bottom line?...

[Dr. Who]

....what's the bottom line?...
Criminal law errs on the side of the Constitution.

[Kabuki Joe]

And that is an example of why libertarians will never will elections.


...BS...they won't win an election because no one really believes in them...the 2 conservative talk show hosts I listen to kind of joke about libraltarians when the subject comes up...the only reason they are even considered is because maybe they will bring in younger voters...they do have some good ideas but I don't agree with their stand on gay marriage being a civil liberty...

[Kabuki Joe]

That's fucked up...


If I see an injustice like someone beating a dog (not correcting it but beating it) or a dog left out on a short leash with no water, damn right I'm going to say and do something. It is my business.

...no, actually while you might think it's your business it's really not...you are just the average liberal busy body like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Kravitz

[sachem]

...my wife's dad had a dog that lived for over 15 years; he never went to the vet once, never ate dog food (lived off scraps), never went for a walk, never had a bath, just lived out in the back yard...I mean he was just a dog and he lived a dog's life...weird...That is great. Not every dog or owner is the same.

[Kabuki Joe]

Vick's dogs were a special breed of natural-born killers. He was doing them a favor by letting them tear each other apart. They aren't really dogs; they are more like wolves, a vicious predator that ought to be exterminated.

...sage, I've said this on here before, no one in my old circles knew anything about Vick...I called around asking about him and all anyone ever said was, "Michael Vick, the football player?"...he was just someone that got fingered to get someone else a lesser charge...his dogs most likely were just cur bred pitbulls...

[Kabuki Joe]

I'm extremely libertarian, a strong minarchist with anarchist leanings in some respects, and I believe the rational used by those libertarians to be total bullshit. Maybe I'm the anomaly among libertarians on this issue here, I don't know, or care, frankly. I don't think their logic holds up here.

I will say, you are right though. Many libertarians won't win people over with views like that.


...ah, ok, so you are a different type of libraltarian...

[Ravi]

...I agree with this...


http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20140418/NEWS/304180032/Oregon-court-says-pets-property-reverses-neglect-conviction

Cool. That means that fetuses are property, too.

[Kabuki Joe]

That is great. Not every dog or owner is the same.


...he was treated like a dog and he lived a long time...I have 3 dogs now that are kept like dogs and all 3 are healthy and happy...they aren't "little people", they are dogs...

[Kabuki Joe]

Cool. That means that fetuses are property, too.

...I always thought you being stupid was an act...

[1751_Texan]

....what's the bottom line?...


This case was not that the pet did not have rights; the suspected pet neglector's rights... according to the court, were violated.

the bottom line is that thread title and topic have not one thing to do with giving pets/animals personhood. It is a ridicuous contention that does not even merit real consideration...none.

[Kabuki Joe]

the bottom line is that thread title and topic have not one thing to do with giving pets/animals personhood. It is a ridicuous contention that does not even merit real consideration...none.

...this is the bottom line whether you like it or not: "Oregon court says pets are property, reverses neglect conviction"

[The Sage of Main Street]

Murder procecutions have been thrown out because police violated the suspects constitutional rights.

did the murdered victim have no rights or did the suspects rights trump all illegally obtained "evidence"

This case was not that the pet did not have rights; the suspected pet neglector's rights... according to the court, were violated.

Someone who would abuse a normal dog is not normal. He will be a threat to people, too. However, someone who lets vicious feral dog be themselves is normal, so Michael Vick shouldn't have been prosecuted. We should also legalize bullfighting.

[Kabuki Joe]

Someone who would abuse a normal dog is not normal. He will be a threat to people, too. However, someone who lets vicious feral dog be themselves is normal, so Michael Vick shouldn't have been prosecuted. We should also legalize bullfighting.

...sage, I will need to move you up a spot with this statement...everyone always asks me how could I be involved with dogfighting when it's cruel...well, fighting 2 dogs that have been bred and raised and bred raised and bred and raised for over 150 years for one specific purpose is not cruel...but fighting non-pitbulls is cruel because they aren't fighting dogs...no matter how scrappy they are they aren't fighting dogs...and putting a pitbull on another breed is extremely taboo with "dogmen" because it has no real purpose other then letting a dog beat up another one...it's not "sporting"...bull fighting has evolved according to what I read on it, it started of as a religious sacrifice for the bull into a sport...I have a great deal of respect for any animal that has a will to win that's greater then it's will to survive...

[Common Sense]

...sage, I will need to move you up a spot with this statement...everyone always asks me how could I be involved with dogfighting when it's cruel...well, fighting 2 dogs that have been bred and raised and bred raised and bred and raised for over 150 years for one specific purpose is not cruel...but fighting non-pitbulls is cruel because they aren't fighting dogs...no matter how scrappy they are they aren't fighting dogs...and putting a pitbull on another breed is extremely taboo with "dogmen" because it has no real purpose other then letting a dog beat up another one...it's not "sporting"...bull fighting has evolved according to what I read on it, it started of as a religious sacrifice for the bull into a sport...I have a great deal of respect for any animal that has a will to win that's greater then it's will to survive...

Wait...you're actually involved in dog fighting???

[Kabuki Joe]

Wait...you're actually involved in dog fighting???


...no, it's a felony...

[The Sage of Main Street]

...sage, I've said this on here before, no one in my old circles knew anything about Vick...I called around asking about him and all anyone ever said was, "Michael Vick, the football player?"...he was just someone that got fingered to get someone else a lesser charge...his dogs most likely were just cur bred pitbulls...

In the Clint Eastwood movie Any Which Way You Can, gamblers arranged a death match between a mongoose and a rattlesnake. Should they have been charged with cruelty to animals? Not only within the fictional context, but PETA might have sued the producers for showing it. I've heard that we can't even show a bullfight on TV in America.

[Kabuki Joe]

In the Clint Eastwood movie Any Which Way You Can, gamblers arranged a death match between a mongoose and a rattlesnake. Should they have been charged with cruelty to animals? Not only within the fictional context, but PETA might have sued the producers for showing it. I've heard that we can't even show a bullfight on TV in America.

...sage, things are changing...even though mongooses eat poisonous snakes, it's still a cruel thing to put a poisonous snake in front of him to eat...think of the children...

[Common Sense]

...no, it's a felony...

Then what did you mean by...

"everyone always asks me how could I be involved with dogfighting when it's cruel...well, fighting 2 dogs that have been bred and raised and bred raised and bred and raised for over 150 years for one specific purpose is not cruel."

[The Sage of Main Street]

...sage, things are changing...even though mongooses eat poisonous snakes, it's still a cruel thing to put a poisonous snake in front of him to eat...think of the children...

If this sissification keeps up, our children will think of us as children.

[Kabuki Joe]

Then what did you mean by...

"everyone always asks me how could I be involved with dogfighting when it's cruel...well, fighting 2 dogs that have been bred and raised and bred raised and bred and raised for over 150 years for one specific purpose is not cruel."

...when I was involved with it in the early 90's...I haven't seen a "pitdog" since I was busted in the mid 90's...I forget, you are new here...

[Common Sense]

...when I was involved with it in the early 90's...I haven't seen a "pitdog" since I was busted in the mid 90's...I forget, you are new here...

I am new here. I'm sorry, but I'm glad you were busted.

I'd like to meet the kind of people who that in person.

[Kabuki Joe]

I am new here. I'm sorry, but I'm glad you were busted.

I'd like to meet the kind of people who that in person.

...what you think of me really doesn't matter...sorry about that...but I don't think you'd really like to meet the present day people doing it, they aren't law abiding citizens, for the most part, like the ones in my day...

[Captain Obvious]

Mongo?

A pit bull fighter, like Michael Vick?

Why am I not surprised...

[Kabuki Joe]

If this sissification keeps up, our children will think of us as children.


...they already do...there are teenagers on here that think they are smarter and know more then adults that have been living in the real world longer then they have been alive...

[Kabuki Joe]

Mongo?

A pit bull fighter, like Michael Vick?

Why am I not surprised...


...nope, I was never like Michael Vick, I never played football professionally...

[Common Sense]

...what you think of me really doesn't matter...sorry about that...but I don't think you'd really like to meet the present day people doing it, they aren't law abiding citizens, for the most part, like the ones in my day...

Oh, I think I'd be alright. Just to let you know, the one's in your day weren't law abiding either.


In my opinion and the opinion of most psychologists, it takes a real sick fuck to do that. Just sayin...

[Kabuki Joe]

Oh, I think I'd be alright. Just to let you know, the one's in your day weren't law abiding either.


In my opinion and the opinion of most psychologists, it takes a real sick fuck to do that. Just sayin...


...and you know this how?...list your credentials with dog fighting and dog fighters and explain it to me...

[Ravi]

Oh, I think I'd be alright. Just to let you know, the one's in your day weren't law abiding either.


In my opinion and the opinion of most psychologists, it takes a real sick fuck to do that. Just sayin...I agree. If dogs want to fight on their own, that's their choice. To be forced into it is sick.

[Common Sense]

...and you know this how?...list your credentials with dog fighting and dog fighters and explain it to me...

Thankfully I have no credentials in dog fighting.

Specifically what do you disagree with? That they were not law abiding or that they are sick fucks?

[Perianne]

Regardless of how they were bred, fighting to the death involves pain and suffering to animals for no purpose other than the enjoyment and profit of those watching and participating.

[Kabuki Joe]

I agree. If dogs want to fight on their own, that's their choice. To be forced into it is sick.


...the vast majority of dogs were bred with a purpose...border collies were created to herd...labs were created to retrieve...terriers were created to kill vermin...and pitbulls were created to fight...dogs have always been tools, except for now, now they are companions, the type that needs equal rights and free medical and dental...

[Matty]

...the vast majority of dogs were bred with a purpose...border collies were created to herd...labs were created to retrieve...terriers were created to kill vermin...and pitbulls were created to fight...dogs have always been tools, except for now, now they are companions, the type that needs equal rights and free medical and dental...


None of them were created to torture!

[Kabuki Joe]

Thankfully I have no credentials in dog fighting.

Specifically what do you disagree with? That they were not law abiding or that they are sick fucks?


...so all you need to say is, I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm just talking... :)

[Kabuki Joe]

Regardless of how they were bred, fighting to the death involves pain and suffering to animals for no purpose other than the enjoyment and profit of those watching and participating.


...ok, and you know this how?...come on, give me something...

[Matty]

...ok, and you know this how?...come on, give me something...
Better yet, prove what she says isn't true?

[Kabuki Joe]

None of them were created to torture!


...ok, same to you, tell me about dog fighting...

[Common Sense]

...so all you need to say is, I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm just talking... :)

...one doesn't need to be involved with dog fighting to know it's wrong. Have you been involved in raping women? Yet you still know it's wrong.

There's really no way you can justify this, but by all means please do try.

[Kabuki Joe]

...one doesn't need to be involved with dog fighting to know it's wrong. Have you been involved in raping women? Yet you still know it's wrong.

There's really no way you can justify this, but by all means please do try.

...just say it, "I don't know anything about it, I just don't like it" but don't come on here telling me how bad it is when you don't know anything about it...

[Kabuki Joe]

Better yet, prove what she says isn't true?


...let me tell you what's funny, everything you have heard about dog fighting is from the same people telling you gays are normal and religion is bad...it's the same exact group of people...list your concerns and I'll go over them...

[Common Sense]

...just say it, "I don't know anything about it, I just don't like it" but don't come on here telling me how bad it is when you don't know anything about it...

Why don't you enlighten us on the virtues of dog fighting?

I'm well aware of the history of breeding for various bloodsports. I'm aware of the methods used, the gambling aspect and the cruelty.

But please, as I said, tell us all how great dog fighting is.

[Matty]

...just say it, "I don't know anything about it, I just don't like it" but don't come on here telling me how bad it is when you don't know anything about it...


Have you you ever been bitten by a dog? I have. It hurts like hell. I have no reason to believe it hurts a dog to a lesser degree. It hurts.

[Matty]

Oh and btw, I had a big lab/pit bull mix who attacked my JRT (not stumpy). The JRT was screaming in pain.

[Common Sense]

Oh and btw, I had a big lab/pit bull mix who attacked my JRT (not stumpy). The JRT was screaming in pain.

...if kabuki were there he could have placed some bets and cheered them on.

[Common Sense]

Have you you ever been bitten by a dog? I have. It hurts like hell. I have no reason to believe it hurts a dog to a lesser degree. It hurts.

Of course they hurt. But I'm sure kabuki the dogman would just say it's a chemical reaction. They're just things after all.

[Matty]

Of course they hurt. But I'm sure kabuki the dogman would just say it's a chemical reaction. They're just things after all.
The JRT survived but the pit bull was put down, if he'd do that to his little housemate he'd do it to a kid. Pit bulls should not be bred.

[Ravi]

None of them were created to torture!
Yep. Kabuki has just made my shit list.

[Captain Obvious]

Yep. Kabuki has just made my shit list.

You're a slow learner.

[Kabuki Joe]

Yep. Kabuki has just made my shit list.


...ok, tell me about dog fighting...

[Matty]

...just say it, "I don't know anything about it, I just don't like it" but don't come on here telling me how bad it is when you don't know anything about it...


What? Do you pull their teeth before you fight them?

[Perianne]

Oh and btw, I had a big lab/pit bull mix who attacked my JRT (not stumpy). The JRT was screaming in pain.

Stumpy would have kicked the pit bull's butt!!!!!

[Ravi]

You're a slow learner.Guess so. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, no matter how stupid they appear to be. But torturing creatures that can't fight back against you is just fucking lamer than evil.

[Matty]

Funny how he never answers direct questions. It's easier for him to pretend we're stupid!

[Matty]

...let me tell you what's funny, everything you have heard about dog fighting is from the same people telling you gays are normal and religion is bad...it's the same exact group of people...list your concerns and I'll go over them...
Lay it on us dude!

[Common Sense]

Hey Kabuki, how do you kill the losers or the ones who aren't great fighters? Drown them, shoot them, electrocute them? Or do you just strangle them?

[Captain Obvious]

Guess so. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, no matter how stupid they appear to be. But torturing creatures that can't fight back against you is just fucking lamer than evil.

Agreed

[Captain Obvious]

Hey Kabuki, how do you kill the losers or the ones who aren't great fighters? Drown them, shoot them, electrocute them? Or do you just strangle them?

He discusses politics with them.

[Perianne]

He discusses politics with them.

And the dogs win. :)

[Ravi]

Hey Kabuki, how do you kill the losers or the ones who aren't great fighters? Drown them, shoot them, electrocute them? Or do you just strangle them?
To be consistent, he should fight them himself. With nothing but his teeth and hands.

[Kabuki Joe]

Have you you ever been bitten by a dog? I have. It hurts like hell. I have no reason to believe it hurts a dog to a lesser degree. It hurts.


...ok, this is something to work with...the offense side of a pitbull, the damage they do for example, is just half of what they are...along with the biting comes the ability to survive being bit back...pitbulls are not bred just to bite because you can't win a fight if you can't survive being bit back...pitbulls have an incredible constitution, they can be hit by cars, bit by rattle snakes, and kicked by horses/cattle and just "shake it off"...how many times have you seen on the news how they get shot multiple by the police and they don't die?...pitbulls are pretty much impervious to pain when doing the deed and they are probably the only breed of dog you can do serious first aide on without getting bit...they just lay there until you finish working on them and are ready for more...I have working terriers that I can't touch when they are beat-up because they will bite me...pitbulls are super heroes with 4 legs...

[Matty]

Stumpy would have kicked the pit bull's butt!!!!!


I'm afraid not, pit bulls are just too powerful. When bear had his grip on little buster my husband tried to open his jaws. They didn't budge. We got him to stop by spraying him with the hose. He hated baths. The vet said the only reason bear didn't kill buster was because he was still a young dog and didn't know how. The vet is the guy who convinced me to put him down.

[Perianne]

I'm afraid not, pit bulls are just too powerful.

I know. But it sounded good.

[Common Sense]

Pit bulls feel no pain! They're superheroes. So let's make them kill each other for fun and gambling!


Sick fuck...

[Matty]

...ok, this is something to work with...the offense side of a pitbull, the damage they do for example, is just half of what they are...along with the biting comes the ability to survive being bit back...pitbulls are not bred just to bite because you can't win a fight if you can't survive being bit back...pitbulls have an incredible constitution, they can be hit by cars, bit by rattle snakes, and kicked by horses/cattle and just "shake it off"...how many times have you seen on the news how they get shot multiple by the police and they don't die?...pitbulls are pretty much impervious to pain when doing the deed and they are probably the only breed of dog you can do serious first aide on without getting bit...they just lay there until you finish working on them and are ready for more...I have working terriers that I can't touch when they are beat-up because they will bite me...pitbulls are super heroes with 4 legs...


Dog fighting is disgusting and you are disgusting if you participate in it. Not only that but in most states it is illegal. Your rationalizations go in one ear and out the other. The is no credible excuse to fight dogs or any other animal for that matter. I don't understand bullfighting and I always root for the bull.

[Matty]

Pit bulls feel no pain! They're superheroes. So let's make them kill each other for fun and gambling!


Sick fuck...
Yep!

[Kabuki Joe]

Oh and btw, I had a big lab/pit bull mix who attacked my JRT (not stumpy). The JRT was screaming in pain.


...is a jrt a fighting breed?...no it isn't...

[Kabuki Joe]

The JRT survived but the pit bull was put down, if he'd do that to his little housemate he'd do it to a kid. Pit bulls should not be bred.


...and here lies the problem, first you say pitbull lab cross and then you leave out the labX after it's been condemned to death... ;)

[Kabuki Joe]

What? Do you pull their teeth before you fight them?



...so now you are left with talking out your ass...see, emotional topics with women are a waste of time...

[Kabuki Joe]

Stumpy would have kicked the pit bull's butt!!!!!

...another woman only left with nonsense...

[1751_Texan]

...ok, this is something to work with...the offense side of a pitbull, the damage they do for example, is just half of what they are...along with the biting comes the ability to survive being bit back...pitbulls are not bred just to bite because you can't win a fight if you can't survive being bit back...pitbulls have an incredible constitution, they can be hit by cars, bit by rattle snakes, and kicked by horses/cattle and just "shake it off"...how many times have you seen on the news how they get shot multiple by the police and they don't die?...pitbulls are pretty much impervious to pain when doing the deed and they are probably the only breed of dog you can do serious first aide on without getting bit...they just lay there until you finish working on them and are ready for more...I have working terriers that I can't touch when they are beat-up because they will bite me...pitbulls are super heroes with 4 legs...

There is no dog "fight club".

[Kabuki Joe]

Hey Kabuki, how do you kill the losers or the ones who aren't great fighters? Drown them, shoot them, electrocute them? Or do you just strangle them?


...HAHAHAHAHAHA...so you googled pitbulls...what do they do with a lab that doesn't retrieve?...or a border collie that can't herd?...or a bird dog that doesn't have "hunt"?...or a hound that can't track?...google them real quick for the answer...

[Common Sense]

...so now you are left with talking out your ass...see, emotional topics with women are a waste of time...

...Oh, I can only imagine how you feel about women.

Cruelty to animals, misogyny, racism...anything else? You sure a charming guy.

[Kabuki Joe]

Funny how he never answers direct questions. It's easier for him to pretend we're stupid!


...I'm moving my mother...why did you change your name on here?...

[Common Sense]

...HAHAHAHAHAHA...so you googled pitbulls...what do they do with a lab that doesn't retrieve?...or a border collie that can't herd?...or a bird dog that doesn't have "hunt"?...or a hound that can't track?...google them real quick for the answer...

Why don't you answer my question? How do you kill them?

[Matty]

...I'm moving my mother...why did you change your name on here?...
Because I like the name Matalese better than WillowTree.

[Kabuki Joe]

Dog fighting is disgusting and you are disgusting if you participate in it. Not only that but in most states it is illegal. Your rationalizations go in one ear and out the other. The is no credible excuse to fight dogs or any other animal for that matter. I don't understand bullfighting and I always root for the bull.


...liberals...

[Kabuki Joe]

Because I like the name Matalese better than WillowTree.


...nope, because you took too much heat as willow tree...

[Common Sense]

...liberals...

I don't think you're going to find many, if any, conservatives here who will support you on this one...


Anyone? Hello?

[Matty]

...so now you are left with talking out your ass...see, emotional topics with women are a waste of time...

Dog fighting is a felony in all 50 states.

[Kabuki Joe]

Why don't you answer my question? How do you kill them?


...the same way as all culls are put down...

[Matty]

...nope, because you took too much heat as willow tree...
Such as? What's the matter? Why you wanna change the subject? Felon.

[Kabuki Joe]

...Oh, I can only imagine how you feel about women.

Cruelty to animals, misogyny, racism...anything else? You sure a charming guy.

...women are impossible to debate with, like with you...

[Common Sense]

...the same way as all culls are put down...

The methods of culling vary and depend on what exactly you intend to cull. So again, how do you kill the dogs that no longer can be of service to you?

[Matty]

The methods of culling vary and depend on what exactly you intend to cull. So again, how do you kill the dogs that no longer can be of service to you?
There is no debate dog fighting is a felony in all 50 states.

[Common Sense]

...women are impossible to debate with, like with you...

You haven't tried to engage in debate with me. You certainly haven't tried defending your position or answered any questions.

[Kabuki Joe]

I don't think you're going to find many, if any, conservatives here who will support you on this one...


Anyone? Hello?


...I'm not looking for support, I telling you as a liberal (woman) you can't get past your feelings...unless it's killing a human fetus, that's ok...

[Common Sense]

Part of me thinks this guy is pulling our collective legs.

[Kabuki Joe]

You haven't tried to engage in debate with me. You certainly haven't tried defending your position or answered any questions.


...which one haven't I answered?...legitimate question, not pissy pants I hate you remark...

[Kabuki Joe]

Dog fighting is a felony in all 50 states.


...didn't I say that already?...

[Common Sense]

...I'm not looking for support, I telling you as a liberal (woman) you can't get past your feelings...unless it's killing a human fetus, that's ok...

LOL...OK buddy. When all else fails bring up abortion. As if liberals just love it.

You could use some feelings...or at least some base empathy.

[Kabuki Joe]

Such as? What's the matter? Why you wanna change the subject? Felon.

...felon?...that's a pretty serious allegation, do you have proof of this?...

[Common Sense]

...which one haven't I answered?...legitimate question, not pissy pants I hate you remark...

How specifically did you kill your dogs?

[Kabuki Joe]

LOL...OK buddy. When all else fails bring up abortion. As if liberals just love it.

You could use some feelings...or at least some base empathy.


...well, you chastise me for animal use but killing a fetus is ok?...tell me why the value of a pitbull is greater then the value of a human fetus?...

[Common Sense]

...felon?...that's a pretty serious allegation, do you have proof of this?...

You've admitted to engaging in activities that are felonies. You also said you were "busted in the mid 90's".

[Common Sense]

...well, you chastise me for animal use but killing a fetus is ok?...tell me why the value of a pitbull is greater then the value of a human fetus?...

What difference does it make to you? Are you letting emotion get in the way?

[Kabuki Joe]

How specifically did you kill your dogs?


...the same way as all culls are put down for the 3rd time...man, you are kind of creeping me out, most people like you that focus on culling dogs are kind of weird...

[Kabuki Joe]

What difference does it make to you? Are you letting emotion get in the way?


...are you a manhater?...that would explain you being so angry...

[Kabuki Joe]

You've admitted to engaging in activities that are felonies. You also said you were "busted in the mid 90's".


...was I convicted of a felony?...because to be a felon I'd need to be convicted of one...

[Common Sense]

...the same way as all culls are put down for the 3rd time...man, you are kind of creeping me out, most people like you that focus on culling dogs are kind of weird...

Culls are put down? Culling is the act, but not the method. So again, how did you do it? Are you afraid to answer?

I'm creeping you out??? That's funny.

[Common Sense]

...are you a manhater?...that would explain you being so angry...

I'm a man. I'm not angry...but I am disgusted by what you're advocating. Don't let my criticism of your illegal activity confuse you.

[Kabuki Joe]

Culls are put down? Culling is the act, but not the method. So again, how did you do it? Are you afraid to answer?

I'm creeping you out??? That's funny.


...yes, of all the people I ever talked about dog fighting with, you are the only one with a fixation on killing them...that's one of the unpleasantries of dog fighting that people just don't like talking about...you know you can google some pretty weird stuff on killing if that's what your into...I find it odd you are angry at dog fighting when all you want to know is about them being killed...that's creepy...ask Capstain Oblivious to find you some stuff on killing fetuses, I'm sure he has a collection to go along with his anal stuff...

[Common Sense]

...yes, of all the people I ever talked about dog fighting with, you are the only one with a fixation on killing them...that's one of the unpleasantries of dog fighting that people just don't like talking about...you know you can google some pretty weird stuff on killing if that's what your into...I find it odd you are angry at dog fighting when all you want to know is about them being killed...that's creepy...ask Capstain Oblivious to find you some stuff on killing fetuses, I'm sure he has a collection to go along with his anal stuff...


I'm just curious as to how deep your depravity is. I'm also trying to illustrate that even you are ashamed of it on some level. You wont even admit to how. So clearly you're ashamed. I mean, you are human.

[Matty]

You have lost the argument. It's all over. Gavel down!


I love love it when that happens.

[Kabuki Joe]

I'm a man. I'm not angry...but I am disgusted by what you're advocating. Don't let my criticism of your illegal activity confuse you.



...I'm not advocating anything, I'm trying to dispel myths but your weeping vagina is getting in the way...if you don't want to have an open dialogue, then just stop posting about it...

[Kabuki Joe]

I'm just curious as to how deep your depravity is. I'm also trying to illustrate that even you are ashamed of it on some level. You wont even admit to how. So clearly you're ashamed. I mean, you are human.


...or maybe I have never put one down?...weird how that works...

[Captain Obvious]

The mistreatment of animals, specifically dog fighting is indefensible.

[Kabuki Joe]

You have lost the argument. It's all over. Gavel down!


I love love it when that happens.


...willow, the only thing that has happened is you and 2 other gals have refused to listen to the truth...if you don't want to know about something, don't ask...

[Common Sense]

...or maybe I have never put one down?...weird how that works...


How specifically did you kill your dogs?


...the same way as all culls are put down for the 3rd time...man, you are kind of creeping me out, most people like you that focus on culling dogs are kind of weird...

Well you said you did...are you also a liar?

[Kabuki Joe]

Well you said you did...are you also a liar?


...I never said I did, you just assumed I did... ;)

[Common Sense]

...I never said I did, you just assumed I did... ;)

"How specifically did you kill your dogs?"...."...the same way as all culls are put down for the 3rd time..."

;)

[Kabuki Joe]

"How specifically did you kill your dogs?"...."...the same way as all culls are put down for the 3rd time..."

;)


...I never said I kill dogs, I said they were culled the same as other breeds... :)

[Common Sense]

I'm arguing semantics with a dog fighting advocate.

Ok...time for a break.

[Kabuki Joe]

I'm arguing semantics with a dog fighting advocate.

Ok...time for a break.

...that's ok, I'm arguing with a gal with her head up her ass... :)

[Matty]

...sage, I will need to move you up a spot with this statement...everyone always asks me how could I be involved with dogfighting when it's cruel...well, fighting 2 dogs that have been bred and raised and bred raised and bred and raised for over 150 years for one specific purpose is not cruel...but fighting non-pitbulls is cruel because they aren't fighting dogs...no matter how scrappy they are they aren't fighting dogs...and putting a pitbull on another breed is extremely taboo with "dogmen" because it has no real purpose other then letting a dog beat up another one...it's not "sporting"...bull fighting has evolved according to what I read on it, it started of as a religious sacrifice for the bull into a sport...I have a great deal of respect for any animal that has a will to win that's greater then it's will to survive...


...when I was involved with it in the early 90's...I haven't seen a "pitdog" since I was busted in the mid 90's...I forget, you are new here...


I'm arguing semantics with a dog fighting advocate.

Ok...time for a break.
Yep. Know when you've won, see his back peddling footprints? Roflmao.. WillowTree!

[Kabuki Joe]

Yep. Know when you've won, see his back peddling footprints? Roflmao.. WillowTree!

...won what?...you still haven't done anything but show you don't like dog fighting...nothing else...the only thing you and the other gals have done is fixate on killing dogs...I bet you are one of those morons that truly believes pitbulls have locking jaws...that's a sure sign of a moron...

[Dr. Who]

...this is the bottom line whether you like it or not: "Oregon court says pets are property, reverses neglect conviction"
Actually, the real crux of the story is that the police violated the woman's Constitutional right to privacy. While the officers entered with consent, they were not given consent to an illegal search of property, therefore could not only use evidence that was in plain view. The dog's blood was not in plain view, therefore not admissible. Were it as your quoted sentence suggests, abuse of animals would not be against the law. You note the Court did not rule that taking the dog to the vet was improper. The officer's visual perception of an animal in distress was sufficient to remove the animal to seek medical assistance. The dog's statutory right not to be abused is still intact. I'm sure this woman will remain on the radar of the Humane Society and next time they get a complaint, they will bring a warrant.

[Ravi]

...so now you are left with talking out your ass...see, emotional topics with women are a waste of time...
Yeah, dogs, women, daughters all deserve what they get, eh kabuki.

[Ravi]

Because I like the name Matalese better than WillowTree.i am partial to willow.

[Ravi]

...nope, because you took too much heat as willow tree...no.

[Ravi]

...the same way as all culls are put down...
Fuck.you suck

[Dr. Who]

...ok, and you know this how?...come on, give me something...

Are you arguing that the animals don't A) get torn up and feel pain or that B) you don't enjoy it and don't make profit or both. Tip, answering yes to A indicates that you have sadistic tendencies and answering yes to B indicates that you are dissembling.

[Kabuki Joe]

...from this:


...so now you are left with talking out your ass...see, emotional topics with women are a waste of time...

...to this:


Yeah, dogs, women, daughters all deserve what they get, eh kabuki.


...what are you smoking?...I can tell you whatever it is it's bad for you...

[Kabuki Joe]

Are you arguing that the animals don't A) get torn up and feel pain or that B) you don't enjoy it and don't make profit or both. Tip, answering yes to A indicates that you have sadistic tendencies and answering yes to B indicates that you are dissembling.


...I'm arguing that an animal bred specifically to fight has been "Darwinized" for such an activity...for 150+ years they have been bred to fight, so they have "evolved" for fighting...just like a sled dog has been bred to pull sleds and evolved for that activity...I've talked with hunting Lab breeders, remember hunting NOT AKC show dogs, and the stuff these dogs go through is trying by all accounts, in and out of freezing cold water, hour after hour, and they love it...why?...because the ones that excel at it are bred, the ones that don't are put down...when you breed for certain traits, that's what you end up with...do pitbulls feel pain?...some do, some don't...enjoy what?...be specific...and make a profit?...I wish...I have spent way more money then I have made with pitbulls...way more...

[The Sage of Main Street]

Oh, I think I'd be alright. Just to let you know, the one's in your day weren't law abiding either.


In my opinion and the opinion of most psychologists, it takes a real sick fuck to do that. Just sayin...

Then for most of man's existence, he must have been a psycho and never could have survived. It's too bad we didn't have pre-historic psychiatrists or mankind might still exist today. Obviously, the opposite is true: queasy little wimps will bring on the destruction of the human race. Only feral ones will survive because we were too squeamish to deal with them down and dirty by jumping into the pit and suffocating them in its mud.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Regardless of how they were bred, fighting to the death involves pain and suffering to animals for no purpose other than the enjoyment and profit of those watching and participating. Girls can put on pink sleep masks. So can girlymen.

[Common Sense]

Then for most of man's existence, he must have been a psycho and never could have survived. It's too bad we didn't have pre-historic psychiatrists or mankind might still exist today. Obviously, the opposite is true: queasy little wimps will bring on the destruction of the human race. Only feral ones will survive because we were too squeamish to deal with them down and dirty by jumping into the pit and suffocating them in its mud.

Oh, Ok...

[The Sage of Main Street]

...the vast majority of dogs were bred with a purpose...border collies were created to herd...labs were created to retrieve...terriers were created to kill vermin...and pitbulls were created to fight...dogs have always been tools, except for now, now they are companions, the type that needs equal rights and free medical and dental...

The word dog means "pointer, used in hunting." Hound, of course is related to hunt. Dog is related to Latin digitus, "finger," which is also a pointer.

[The Xl]

...when I was involved with it in the early 90's...I haven't seen a "pitdog" since I was busted in the mid 90's...I forget, you are new here...

I was pretty sure that you were a useless piece of shit prior to reading this post.

Now I'm 1000% positive.

[The Xl]

...women are impossible to debate with, like with you...

No, you're impossible to debate with because you're a fucking moron with a sub 80 IQ. Being a heartless douche is just icing on the cake.

I don't wish ill or death on anyone, but you're an exception. If I heard you died, I'd probably laugh and treat myself to some ice cream. Two scoops if I heard it was via a Pitbull.

[The Xl]

Then for most of man's existence, he must have been a psycho and never could have survived. It's too bad we didn't have pre-historic psychiatrists or mankind might still exist today. Obviously, the opposite is true: queasy little wimps will bring on the destruction of the human race. Only feral ones will survive because we were too squeamish to deal with them down and dirty by jumping into the pit and suffocating them in its mud.

Go ahead, tough guy, show us girly men how to be real men. Go ahead a violently overthrow the 1%, which is all you ever talk about.

Oh, you won't? Why? Are you afraid of getting killed or thrown in a cell?

Pussy.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Stumpy would have kicked the pit bull's butt!!!!! You would have liked that, wouldn't you have? You would have laughed for joy as Stumpy ripped the poor pit bull's neck open or sank his fangs into the dog's belly.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Part of me thinks this guy is pulling our collective legs.

Wishful thinking. Besides, you'll need your legs for running away from a fight.

[The Sage of Main Street]

I don't think you're going to find many, if any, conservatives here who will support you on this one...


Anyone? Hello? Why would Chickenhawks support any kind of fighting man?

[The Sage of Main Street]

...willow, the only thing that has happened is you and 2 other gals have refused to listen to the truth...if you don't want to know about something, don't ask...

Unlike these flower children, you have looked reality in the face and didn't flinch.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Ok...time for a break. You were broken apart and crushed into powder a long time ago.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Oh, Ok... There would have been nowhere for you to hide at the OK Corral.

[Common Sense]

Wishful thinking. Besides, you'll need your legs for running away from a fight.

I don't run from fights. I don't look for them either.

[Common Sense]

There would have been nowhere for you to hide at the OK Corral.

Do you do a lot of drugs?

[Kabuki Joe]

No, you're impossible to debate with because you're a fucking moron with a sub 80 IQ. Being a heartless douche is just icing on the cake.

I don't wish ill or death on anyone, but you're an exception. If I heard you died, I'd probably laugh and treat myself to some ice cream. Two scoops if I heard it was via a Pitbull.


...it's ok, chics can't relate to what guys do...serious question, do you watch anamae porn?...I hear a lot of douchebags love that stuff...

[Kabuki Joe]

I don't run from fights. I don't look for them either.


...that's what everyone says on the net...

[The Xl]

...it's ok, chics can't relate to what guys do...serious question, do you watch anamae porn?...I hear a lot of douchebags love that stuff...

Most guys couldn't relate to the horrible shit you've done, so don't play the gender card.

Anamae? What is that? You can't even fucking spell.

I have a serious question for you, and it's a legitimate one. Did you get a mail order bride? Because I honestly can't imagine any woman voluntarily spending their life with you unless they had no other option.

[Kabuki Joe]

Why would Chickenhawks support any kind of fighting man?


...that's the bottom line sage, dog fighting started getting a bad rep when bra burning started...before bra burning no one cared about it...it was just what some people did...I remember, before my testies dropped, thinking it was cruel because everyone pushed so many myths about it...when my uncle approached me about it I was very shocked...a couple years later I met some guys involved with it and they weren't what the women with weeping vaginas said they were...just "good ol' boys" that were sporting dog fanciers...they started dispelling all the myths that I was spoonfed and I began to question why the women with weeping vaginas would spread false rumors about it?...because the sheep don't know any better...

[Matty]

A pig is a pig is a pig

[Dr. Who]

...I'm arguing that an animal bred specifically to fight has been "Darwinized" for such an activity...for 150+ years they have been bred to fight, so they have "evolved" for fighting...just like a sled dog has been bred to pull sleds and evolved for that activity...I've talked with hunting Lab breeders, remember hunting NOT AKC show dogs, and the stuff these dogs go through is trying by all accounts, in and out of freezing cold water, hour after hour, and they love it...why?...because the ones that excel at it are bred, the ones that don't are put down...when you breed for certain traits, that's what you end up with...do pitbulls feel pain?...some do, some don't...enjoy what?...be specific...and make a profit?...I wish...I have spent way more money then I have made with pitbulls...way more...

There is much that you don't understand about animals and specifically dogs. Just because an animal is aggressive i.e. he has strong territorial tendencies, which is what is or was encouraged in Pit Bull breeding and training, does not mean that you can translate instinctual behavior to enjoyment and by extension assume that you have also bred out all the nerve endings in the animal's skin and muscles. All you have done is selectively bred for high territorial behavior. This is in fact reverse engineering thousands of years of selecting for low aggression. That doesn't mean that they don't feel pain - they are just unable to change their hardwired behavior and unable to get away. They are not rational. If they were, they would wait until you were sleeping and tear out your throat rather than be forced into the pit again. If they were rational, they would refuse to fight. If you put two bulls (bovines) in a pen, they will likewise attack each other. This is not a pleasurable activity, it is a hardwired survival of the species behavior. As to the other aspects of selective breeding, they are similar, but not the same. Yes there is selective breeding for a high hunting instinct and other behaviors that made dogs good and productive companions for mankind for centuries. Forcing two dogs, or two roosters into a pen to provoke their instincts to attack and potentially kill each other for sport and profit and amusement is a reflection on your own lack of humanity, because in real life two animals would not be so confined, and one would likely run away before it died or was seriously injured.

[Kabuki Joe]

Most guys couldn't relate to the horrible shit you've done, so don't play the gender card.

Anamae? What is that? You can't even fucking spell.

I have a serious question for you, and it's a legitimate one. Did you get a mail order bride? Because I honestly can't imagine any woman voluntarily spending their life with you unless they had no other option.


...what horrible shit?...tell me what you know, not what you heard from following Perez Hilton...come on, tell me...take a deep breath and clean up your weeping vagina first so you can do it with out tear drops falling...

[Peter1469]

Warning: let's end the personal attacks and name calling.

[Kabuki Joe]

There is much that you don't understand about animals and specifically dogs.

...first off, I have forgot more about dogs then you will ever know...that's a given...I have witnessed first hand more then a few working dogs do their thing and this is the thing as a chic you don't understand, dogs do what they do without training...you can't train a dog how to herd otherwise you wouldn't need a herding breed...you can't train a dog to locate and point at birds otherwise you wouldn't need a upland game breed...you can't train a dog to track bears, mountain lions or people otherwise you wouldn't need a scent breed...etc, etc, etc...by your own words, every breed should be able to race with greyhounds because they can be trained to...you are clueless and I'm being polite...


Just because an animal is aggressive i.e. he has strong territorial tendencies, which is what is or was encouraged in Pit Bull breeding and training, does not mean that you can translate instinctual behavior to enjoyment and by extension assume that you have also bred out all the nerve endings in the animal's skin and muscles. All you have done is selectively bred for high territorial behavior. This is in fact reverse engineering thousands of years of selecting for low aggression.

...you are completely oblivious to what a pitbull is...100% oblivious...pitbulls are what they are through breeding "best to best"...they aren't trained to fight, they aren't forced to fight, they just fight...pitbulls have been engineered by man and all the reasons wild animals do what they do don't apply to pitbulls...they don't fight because they want to kill something, they don't want to eat something, they don't want dominate something, they fight to win...but as a chic, you don't understand this, it's only something a man, or a chic that competes, can understand...they fight to win, nothing else...


That doesn't mean that they don't feel pain - they are just unable to change their hardwired behavior and unable to get away. They are not rational. If they were, they would wait until you were sleeping and tear out your throat rather than be forced into the pit again.

...this is the absolute stupidest thing I have ever seen said about pitbulls...I'm stunned...seriously...


If they were rational, they would refuse to fight.

...here's the second...


If you put two bulls (bovines) in a pen, they will likewise attack each other. This is not a pleasurable activity, it is a hardwired survival of the species behavior.

...no it isn't...it's what males do to get the first shot at breeding females...you are making my head hurt...


As to the other aspects of selective breeding, they are similar, but not the same. Yes there is selective breeding for a high hunting instinct and other behaviors that made dogs good and productive companions for mankind for centuries. Forcing two dogs, or two roosters into a pen to provoke their instincts to attack and potentially kill each other for sport and profit and amusement is a reflection on your own lack of humanity, because in real life two animals would not be so confined, and one would likely run away before it died or was seriously injured.

...I'm completely dumbfounded by what you are saying...similar but not the same?...are you reading this stuff before you replay?...every single breed of dog was created for a purpose, they just didn't come about because some fairy godmother like you waved a magic wand and "poof" an English sheep dog appeared out of thin air...it took years of selective breeding, which included culling for those with a weak heart, to create each and every working breed...I'm sorry, you are absolutely clueless about dogs...

[sachem]

http://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/smileyslaughing_lol_rofl__100-102.gif?w=300&h=222

Sorry.

[Common Sense]

Holy shit...what a complete douche. "I'm a real man cuz i watch dogs rip each other apart!"

Human garbage.

[Matty]

He's fixated on "weeping vaginas" that's why pig seemed so appropriate.

[Peter1469]

Holy shit...what a complete douche. "I'm a real man cuz i watch dogs rip each other apart!"

Human garbage.

Attention: Common Sense was banned from this thread for disregarding the earlier warning. Please review the rules.

[Kabuki Joe]

He's fixated on "weeping vaginas" that's why pig seemed so appropriate.


...do you know that show people drown the pups in 5 gal buckets that aren't up to the breed conformation?...you know, wrong color, wrong conformation, too small, etc, etc, etc...it's a common practice...

[Matty]

...do you know that show people drown the pups in 5 gal buckets that aren't up to the breed conformation?...you know, wrong color, wrong conformation, too small, etc, etc, etc...it's a common practice...
Which explains your gross piggish language how?

[Captain Obvious]

Only a total coward would even try to justify animal abuse that is dog fighting.

[Kabuki Joe]

Which explains your gross piggish language how?


...I just came up with a new disease, WVS - weeping vagina syndrome...I think I might need to patent it...what do you think?...

[Matty]

You already know what I think. And, I'm not alone either!

[Kabuki Joe]

You already know what I think. And, I'm not alone either!


...I understand...diseases aren't funny and I shouldn't make fun of the people that have WVS...have you sought treatment?...

[Dr. Who]

...first off, I have forgot more about dogs then you will ever know...that's a given...I have witnessed first hand more then a few working dogs do their thing and this is the thing as a chic you don't understand, dogs do what they do without training...you can't train a dog how to herd otherwise you wouldn't need a herding breed...you can't train a dog to locate and point at birds otherwise you wouldn't need a upland game breed...you can't train a dog to track bears, mountain lions or people otherwise you wouldn't need a scent breed...etc, etc, etc...by your own words, every breed should be able to race with greyhounds because they can be trained to...you are clueless and I'm being polite...



...you are completely oblivious to what a pitbull is...100% oblivious...pitbulls are what they are through breeding "best to best"...they aren't trained to fight, they aren't forced to fight, they just fight...pitbulls have been engineered by man and all the reasons wild animals do what they do don't apply to pitbulls...they don't fight because they want to kill something, they don't want to eat something, they don't want dominate something, they fight to win...but as a chic, you don't understand this, it's only something a man, or a chic that competes, can understand...they fight to win, nothing else...



...this is the absolute stupidest thing I have ever seen said about pitbulls...I'm stunned...seriously...



...here's the second...



...no it isn't...it's what males do to get the first shot at breeding females...you are making my head hurt...



...I'm completely dumbfounded by what you are saying...similar but not the same?...are you reading this stuff before you replay?...every single breed of dog was created for a purpose, they just didn't come about because some fairy godmother like you waved a magic wand and "poof" an English sheep dog appeared out of thin air...it took years of selective breeding, which included culling for those with a weak heart, to create each and every working breed...I'm sorry, you are absolutely clueless about dogs...

I think it is you that is "clueless" about instinctive behavior, genetics, breeding and training. You apparently know how selective breeding works, but not why or what traits you are actually selecting for. When you select for aggression in Pits, what you are selecting for is territorialism. You are not selecting for pure aggression, because then they would be impossible to handle by their human masters. You can select for pure aggression alone but then you are specifically attempting to eliminate any genetic changes governing fear and trust that have occurred to dogs during their association for human kind - of course if you did that, they would likely try to kill you. You are selecting for aggression against other dogs, hence you are selecting for territorialism. Territorialism is a positive trait for wild dogs to maintain sovereignty over food supply and females, thus encourages survival of the species. Training can encourage aggressiveness, ask the police, they train dogs to be aggressive in specific circumstances, as does the army. Selecting for herding is reinforcing one specific aspect of the hunting trait, and that is one that stems from dogs hunting in packs and encircling herd animals so that the ones best able to make the kill don't have to run themselves into exhaustion. Humans have selectively bred for a high instinct to chase rodents - see terriers, a high instinct to herd, see all herding breeds see dogs that herd sheep vs those who are better with cattle, a high instinct to hunt - see selective breeding for specific hunting targets like birds, vs other animals. Dogs that are at home with watery/swampy environments, see labs and poodles, dogs that have a high excitability factor and bark - see small dogs used as an early warning system on large properties to other breeds that have not been excessively selectively bred - see the spitz family of dogs, notwithstanding the extreme Nordic breeds selectively bred for a high work instinct and communal behavior i.e. for pulling sleds and co-operating with their fellow dogs.

Culling doesn't have to mean killing. Culling can also mean not allowing those pups that don't meet your criterion to breed. In the dog breeding world, that means that they are sold as pets and usually neutered. In any event, they don't breed with your selected females and vice versa.

You can selectively breed for all manner of traits and humans have done so for millennia without necessarily understanding the science behind their actions. But as with people, there is nurture and nature and you can make an otherwise passive animal mean and fearful if you treat it abusively. Many breeds of dogs have been the victims of ownership by morally depraved, and mentally deficient owners who substitute the apparent fearlessness of their animals for their own cowardice and believe that the symbol of a highly aggressive and vigilant dog makes them seem more powerful, while to the rest of us, they look like boneheaded losers.

[Ravi]

Most guys couldn't relate to the horrible shit you've done, so don't play the gender card.

Anamae? What is that? You can't even fucking spell.

I have a serious question for you, and it's a legitimate one. Did you get a mail order bride? Because I honestly can't imagine any woman voluntarily spending their life with you unless they had no other option.me either unless she also likes to torture animals.

[Ravi]

...that's the bottom line sage, dog fighting started getting a bad rep when bra burning started...before bra burning no one cared about it...it was just what some people did...I remember, before my testies dropped, thinking it was cruel because everyone pushed so many myths about it...when my uncle approached me about it I was very shocked...a couple years later I met some guys involved with it and they weren't what the women with weeping vaginas said they were...just "good ol' boys" that were sporting dog fanciers...they started dispelling all the myths that I was spoonfed and I began to question why the women with weeping vaginas would spread false rumors about it?...because the sheep don't know any better...
Your uncle raped you... Now I see why you hurt animals

[Ravi]

Warning: let's end the personal attacks and name calling.missed that. I will henceforth respect kafukis right to harm animals.

[Captain Obvious]

This thread is full of fail.

[sachem]

This thread is full of fail.A lot of them are. You just have to look harder for the decent stuff.

[Kabuki Joe]

I think it is you that is "clueless" about instinctive behavior, genetics, breeding and training. You apparently know how selective breeding works, but not why or what traits you are actually selecting for.

...are you serious?!?!?...to breed a fighting dog, you would keep traits FOR fighting and throw away the traits AGAINST fighting...you just don't get it...the pitbull has been engineered by man for fighting, the natural instincts have been bred out...the instinct of survival, for instance, has been almost completely bred out of pitbulls because a dogs that stops fighting for survival reasons is useless and will be culled...how do you not understand this?...no other dog in the world has been engineered like a pitbull...


When you select for aggression in Pits, what you are selecting for is territorialism. You are not selecting for pure aggression, because then they would be impossible to handle by their human masters. You can select for pure aggression alone but then you are specifically attempting to eliminate any genetic changes governing fear and trust that have occurred to dogs during their association for human kind - of course if you did that, they would likely try to kill you.

...do you really just like to hear yourself talk?...because that's what I'm getting...pitbulls are bred to fight, pure and simple...if a pitbull doesn't want to fight, which they can choose notto, then it is culled...I don't understand how you can't grasp this...if someone has sheep and they need a sheep dog, why would they need a fighting dog?...they wouldn't, they'd need a sheep dog...you have no clue about dogs...none...zilch...


You are selecting for aggression against other dogs, hence you are selecting for territorialism. Territorialism is a positive trait for wild dogs to maintain sovereignty over food supply and females, thus encourages survival of the species.

...do boxers fight over territory?...do MMA fighters fight over territory?...no, they fight because they want to fight...


Training can encourage aggressiveness, ask the police, they train dogs to be aggressive in specific circumstances, as does the army.

...you cannot train a dog to die for a cause, it's just impossible...eventually all dogs have an internal switch, called the instinct for survival, that goes off and it will "flee"...every breed, except for pitbulls, will flee when it is hurt enough to not survive...except for pitbulls because this instinct has been bred out...


Selecting for herding is reinforcing one specific aspect of the hunting trait, and that is one that stems from dogs hunting in packs and encircling herd animals so that the ones best able to make the kill don't have to run themselves into exhaustion. Humans have selectively bred for a high instinct to chase rodents - see terriers, a high instinct to herd, see all herding breeds see dogs that herd sheep vs those who are better with cattle, a high instinct to hunt - see selective breeding for specific hunting targets like birds, vs other animals. Dogs that are at home with watery/swampy environments, see labs and poodles, dogs that have a high excitability factor and bark - see small dogs used as an early warning system on large properties to other breeds that have not been excessively selectively bred - see the spitz family of dogs, notwithstanding the extreme Nordic breeds selectively bred for a high work instinct and communal behavior i.e. for pulling sleds and co-operating with their fellow dogs.

...different traits for different needs, isn't that what I've been saying?...


You can selectively breed for all manner of traits and humans have done so for millennia without necessarily understanding the science behind their actions. But as with people, there is nurture and nature and you can make an otherwise passive animal mean and fearful if you treat it abusively. Many breeds of dogs have been the victims of ownership by morally depraved, and mentally deficient owners who substitute the apparent fearlessness of their animals for their own cowardice and believe that the symbol of a highly aggressive and vigilant dog makes they seem more powerful, while to the rest of us, they look like boneheaded losers.

...hero are born, not made...do you know how many pitbulls from 100% fighting heritage make the grade?...20%...so 8 out 10 pitbulls are culled...you can't make a shit dog into a great dog (nurture), it's just impossible...eventually the dogs flaws will come to light...and this is the same with all working bred dogs...how many racing grayhounds make it to the track?...20% maybe...


Culling doesn't have to mean killing. Culling can also mean not allowing those pups that don't meet your criterion to breed. In the dog breeding world, that means that they are sold as pets and usually neutered. In any event, they don't breed with your selected females and vice versa. You may have engaged in


...and now you know why there are so many pitbull attacks, because they are put in the hands of clueless people like you...I have said this before, when only dog fighters had pitbulls there were no pitbull attacks...

[Captain Obvious]

A lot of them are. You just have to look harder for the decent stuff.

Some way more than others, like this one.

I can't even be a douchebag on this thread like I generally do, it's just too suck.

[sachem]

Some way more than others, like this one.

I can't even be a douchebag on this thread like I generally do, it's just too suck.Darn! I will miss your douchebaggery here.

Fortunately, I know I will see it elsewhere. :D

[Dr. Who]

...are you serious?!?!?...to breed a fighting dog, you would keep traits FOR fighting and throw away the traits AGAINST fighting...you just don't get it...the pitbull has been engineered by man for fighting, the natural instincts have been bred out...the instinct of survival, for instance, has been almost completely bred out of pitbulls because a dogs that stops fighting for survival reasons is useless and will be culled...how do you not understand this?...no other dog in the world has been engineered like a pitbull...



...do you really just like to hear yourself talk?...because that's what I'm getting...pitbulls are bred to fight, pure and simple...if a pitbull doesn't want to fight, which they can choose notto, then it is culled...I don't understand how you can't grasp this...if someone has sheep and they need a sheep dog, why would they need a fighting dog?...they wouldn't, they'd need a sheep dog...you have no clue about dogs...none...zilch...



...do boxers fight over territory?...do MMA fighters fight over territory?...no, they fight because they want to fight...



...you cannot train a dog to die for a cause, it's just impossible...eventually all dogs have an internal switch, called the instinct for survival, that goes off and it will "flee"...every breed, except for pitbulls, will flee when it is hurt enough to not survive...except for pitbulls because this instinct has been bred out...



...different traits for different needs, isn't that what I've been saying?...



...hero are born, not made...do you know how many pitbulls from 100% fighting heritage make the grade?...20%...so 8 out 10 pitbulls are culled...you can't make a shit dog into a great dog (nurture), it's just impossible...eventually the dogs flaws will come to light...and this is the same with all working bred dogs...how many racing grayhounds make it to the track?...20% maybe...




...and now you know why there are so many pitbull attacks, because they are put in the hands of clueless people like you...I have said this before, when only dog fighters had pitbulls there were no pitbull attacks...
I have nothing further to add to this topic - you are beyond reason. You justify kill culling and dog fighting like it's a good thing. I suspect you were born in the wrong century. You would have been a happy contemporary of the barbarian hordes.

[Kabuki Joe]

I have nothing further to add to this topic - you are beyond reason. You justify kill culling and dog fighting like it's a good thing. I suspect you were born in the wrong century. You would have been a happy contemporary of the barbarian hordes.


...because it's the basis for every breed of working dogs in the history of mankind...when your livelihood, your survival depends on an animal, a tool, you won't settle for an animal that will put your survival at risk...you just won't...it's not my fault you can't get it...

[Captain Obvious]

I have nothing further to add to this topic - you are beyond reason. You justify kill culling and dog fighting like it's a good thing. I suspect you were born in the wrong century. You would have been a happy contemporary of the barbarian hordes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6jL4bfjnfI

[Dr. Who]

...because it's the basis for every breed of working dogs in the history of mankind...when your livelihood, your survival depends on an animal, a tool, you won't settle for an animal that will put your survival at risk...you just won't...it's not my fault you can't get it...

I'm not unique in that respect - neither can anyone else. A dog can be your helper, but when you degrade them to the level of an inanimate tool, like a shovel or a saw, you have lost your connection with nature, the planet and morality. They haven't our capacity for reason, but they do have feelings, and they do show loyalty and affection. If you cannot respect them as another living being that is worthy of compassion and kindness, then there is nothing anyone can say to you, because you only consider yourself.

[Kabuki Joe]

I'm not unique in that respect - neither can anyone else. A dog can be your helper, but when you degrade them to the level of an inanimate tool, like a shovel or a saw, you have lost your connection with nature, the planet and morality. They haven't our capacity for reason, but they do have feelings, and they do show loyalty and affection. If you cannot respect them as another living being that is worthy of compassion and kindness, then there is nothing anyone can say to you, because you only consider yourself.


...first off, thanks for at least engaging in a serious discussion, I appreciate it and I respect you for it...BUT this is your opinion...animals have been used as tools for thousands of years...many thousands...and the sad part is when your tool breaks, what do you do?...you throw it away and get another one...what if it's not broken and it just doesn't work the way you want it to?...you throw it away and get another one...this is the reality of our discussion, animals have always been tools FIRST until recently...this is the reality and denial won't make it untrue...this is the problem between us, you just don't like what I'm saying BUT it doesn't make it untrue...pitbulls are just one of the many dogs that have been used as tools over the past couple hundred years and your refusal to acknowledge it is just plain stupid...there's a lot of stuff I don't necessarily agree with but at least I acknowledge them...and just because I acknowledge something, like rape, doesn't mean I condone it, it just means I know it's there...it's no skin off my back if you refuse to accept what a pitbull was created AND used for...none what-so-ever...

[Dr. Who]

...first off, thanks for at least engaging in a serious discussion, I appreciate it and I respect you for it...BUT this is your opinion...animals have been used as tools for thousands of years...many thousands...and the sad part is when your tool breaks, what do you do?...you throw it away and get another one...what if it's not broken and it just doesn't work the way you want it to?...you throw it away and get another one...this is the reality of our discussion, animals have always been tools FIRST until recently...this is the reality and denial won't make it untrue...this is the problem between us, you just don't like what I'm saying BUT it doesn't make it untrue...pitbulls are just one of the many dogs that have been used as tools over the past couple hundred years and your refusal to acknowledge it is just plain stupid...there's a lot of stuff I don't necessarily agree with but at least I acknowledge them...and just because I acknowledge something, like rape, doesn't mean I condone it, it just means I know it's there...it's no skin off my back if you refuse to accept what a pitbull was created AND used for...none what-so-ever...

We are supposed to be evolving. There is no reason in this day and age to regard animals as mere tools. Historically it was not all of humanity who so regarded animals, it was only those who were persuaded that their destiny was to use and abuse animals as they saw fit - many religions and societies treated animals with respect. My personal view is that if you cannot have compassion for the least of us, you will have a hard time having compassion for humanity. That we kill animals for food is pragmatic. Animal flesh is a part of our diet. To torture and abuse the animals that in some way keep us alive, is to disrespect their existence and our creator.

[Kabuki Joe]

We are supposed to be evolving. There is no reason in this day and age to regard animals as mere tools. Historically it was not all of humanity who so regarded animals, it was only those who were persuaded that their destiny was to use and abuse animals as they saw fit - many religions and societies treated animals with respect. My personal view is that if you cannot have compassion for the least of us, you will have a hard time having compassion for humanity. That we kill animals for food is pragmatic. Animal flesh is a part of our diet. To torture and abuse the animals that in some way keep us alive, is to disrespect their existence and our creator.


...again, this is your opinion...and just because this is your opinion doesn't mean others share it...I've witnessed first hand several different working breeds work and the joy these dogs show at being able to work is something you will never understand because you just won't acknowledge it...heck, pitbulls love being in the pit, they live for it, it's their destiny, it's their purpose and the saddest thing is when someone like you shits on them for doing what they were bred for...it's what they do, just accept it and move on...I don't want you or anyone else to support dog fighting, I just want you to understand it...just accept this wonderful breed for what it is, which is just a dog that fights...but it also loves tennis balls, belly rubs and long walks on the beech...they are just dogs...

[Dr. Who]

...again, this is your opinion...and just because this is your opinion doesn't mean others share it...I've witnessed first hand several different working breeds work and the joy these dogs show at being able to work is something you will never understand because you just won't acknowledge it...heck, pitbulls love being in the pit, they live for it, it's their destiny, it's their purpose and the saddest thing is when someone like you shits on them for doing what they were bred for...it's what they do, just accept it and move on...I don't want you or anyone else to support dog fighting, I just want you to understand it...just accept this wonderful breed for what it is, which is just a dog that fights...but it also loves tennis balls, belly rubs and long walks on the beech...they are just dogs...
Saying that a Pit Bull loves to fight is to completely disregard his instincts and impute human or anthropomorphic qualities to the animal. Pit Bulls know nothing of extreme fighting and take no pride in winning, they simply do what their DNA tells them to do. You have bred them to be that way. You kill the ones that don't behave that way. As a result, many municipalities have made them illegal - even dogs who happen to look like them. Millions of pit looking dogs are being euthanized because of your hobby.

[Kabuki Joe]

Saying that a Pit Bull loves to fight is to completely disregard his instincts and impute human or anthropomorphic qualities to the animal. Pit Bulls know nothing of extreme fighting and take no pride in winning, they simply do what their DNA tells them to do. You have bred them to be that way. You kill the ones that don't behave that way. As a result, many municipalities have made them illegal - even dogs who happen to look like them. Millions of pit looking dogs are being euthanized because of your hobby.


...why do I even try, they have been bred generation after generation for one thing, to fight...it's what they do...I'm sorry you just can't get it...but I know why, remember the empathy debate we had?...about jumping in the hole?...you jumped in the hole with pitbulls and now you are saying, "if I was a pitbull I wouldn't want to be treated like that"...you aren't a pitbull so don't put yourself in the pitbull's place, it just doesn't work...I'm sorry, nothing else to say...

[Ravi]

...why do I even try, they have been bred generation after generation for one thing, to fight...it's what they do...I'm sorry you just can't get it...but I know why, remember the empathy debate we had?...about jumping in the hole?...you jumped in the hole with pitbulls and now you are saying, "if I was a pitbull I wouldn't want to be treated like that"...you aren't a pitbull so don't put yourself in the pitbull's place, it just doesn't work...I'm sorry, nothing else to say...There is no purpose to dog fights. That some dogs are bred to fight is perversion.

[Kabuki Joe]

There is no purpose to dog fights. That some dogs are bred to fight is perversion.


...well then, there's no purpose for boxing, MMA, muythai, kickboxing, full contact karate or any other man vs man combat competition, so it all needs to be banned?...

[Ravi]

...well then, there's no purpose for boxing, MMA, muythai, kickboxing, full contact karate or any other man vs man combat competition, so it all needs to be banned?...No, that is a choice.

What is this culling you speak of, btw?

[Kabuki Joe]

No, that is a choice.

What is this culling you speak of, btw?


...you do know that there are rules in dog fighting just like in boxing?...the rules are made so a pitbull (or boxer or rooster) can quit if it doesn't want to continue...culling is putting an animal down (killing it if you prefer) that is not up to the given standard...a pitbull that quits in a fight, a herding dog that quits herding if it gets kicked by a liberal...errrr sheep, a hound that can't track, a bird dog that can't locate game birds, etc, etc, etc...the death penalty is culling...

[Ravi]

Culling is the PC word for killing. I see that even those that torture dogs in this manner know it is wrong, otherwise they'd not have made up the term.

[Kabuki Joe]

Culling is the PC word for killing. I see that even those that torture dogs in this manner know it is wrong, otherwise they'd not have made up the term.

culling is putting an animal down (killing it if you prefer) that is not up to the given standard"


...did you see this part?...and culling doesn't always mean killing...depending on the animal, you can sell it as a "cull" or just use it in another way...pitbulls that quit need to be put down because something in their mind goes bad and they become fear biters a lot of the time...some become depressed because they know they failed...a race horse that can't win races can be a riding horse, a pitbull that quits should not become a family pet...as you read this you are thinking "what's leprosy?"...

[Captain Obvious]

No, that is a choice.

What is this culling you speak of, btw?

Joe's a turd. Just accept that fact and move on.

[Kabuki Joe]

Joe's a turd. Just accept that fact and move on.


...I would never place an animal in your hands, I'm against people like you screwing animals...

[The Sage of Main Street]

Do you do a lot of drugs?

Why, are you trying to sell me some? I think you had too much Ritalin as a child or you wouldn't be making such brain-frozen comments.

[The Sage of Main Street]

...that's the bottom line sage, dog fighting started getting a bad rep when bra burning started...before bra burning no one cared about it...it was just what some people did...I remember, before my testies dropped, thinking it was cruel because everyone pushed so many myths about it...when my uncle approached me about it I was very shocked...a couple years later I met some guys involved with it and they weren't what the women with weeping vaginas said they were...just "good ol' boys" that were sporting dog fanciers...they started dispelling all the myths that I was spoonfed and I began to question why the women with weeping vaginas would spread false rumors about it?...because the sheep don't know any better...

You mean the penis-envy piranhas and femininny titwits prefer eunuchs?

[Kabuki Joe]

You mean the penis-envy piranhas and femininny titwits prefer eunuchs?


...they think they do anyway...

[The Sage of Main Street]

...well then, there's no purpose for boxing, MMA, muythai, kickboxing, full contact karate or any other man vs man combat competition, so it all needs to be banned?...

Even though there's little chance that the Flower Children will have to go to war, some of them will experience or witness extremely violent, bloody, and terrifying events, such as in car accidents. They won't be able to take it. Their life as functional members of society will be over.

I know a former lawyer who had lost a case defending a drug gang. They tied him up and murdered his wife and child right in front of him. He lives in a world of his own, though he can enter reality from time to time if it is non-threatening. If he had experienced violence before the murders, he would have reacted sanely and become a prosecutor to get even with criminals, who are less human than pitbulls.

[The Sage of Main Street]

...I would never place an animal in your hands, I'm against people like you screwing animals...

Then you'll deprive us of the thrill of Obvious posting the pictures of him doing it.

[nathanbforrest45]

Cool. That means that fetuses are property, too.


Now that is just fucking stupid