View Full Version : Are Voter ID Laws Really Racist?
Alias
03-24-2012, 07:10 AM
Let's ask some people on the street and find out what they think.
http://townhall.com/video/are-voter-id-laws-really-racist
Captain Obvious
03-24-2012, 07:12 AM
All I got was a pop-up ad.
Alias
03-24-2012, 07:56 AM
All I got was a pop-up ad.
I clicked on it twice and it worked for me. Weird.
Good vid. People who are on the bandwagon for no ID to vote are disrespecting minorities. I believe that very few people don't have ID. The ones who cast illegal votes have to be either illegal aliens or citizens who actually do have ID and are up to no good.
Mister D
03-24-2012, 08:50 AM
You wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) how far liberals will go to portray these requirements as racist. I had one kid at another forum basically tell me that it's unreasonable to expect black people to have ID.
Captain Obvious
03-24-2012, 08:58 AM
It's a non issue no matter how hard these idiots try to make it into one.
If anyone actually did a survey I think they would find that the overwhelming majority of black people do have ID. This is just another instance of progressives splitting people apart and grouping them and then pitting the groups one against the other.
Alias
03-24-2012, 09:11 AM
These lefty loons are all in, they're out of chips, and they're holding a losing hand. They're gonna look for anything. Desperate with blind angst.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:14 AM
If I don't say it's racist, then liberals don't call it racist. Quit creating the monster under the bed to scare the shit out of yourselves.
It is, however, unconstitutional. You're trying once again to disparage voters, and to create laws (and a bigger government :shocked:) to attempt to turn elections in your own favor. This filth is not fooling anybody, and it doesn't have a chance. But carry on, if you must. It will be in vain.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:15 AM
These lefty loons are all in, they're out of chips, and they're holding a losing hand. They're gonna look for anything. Desperate with blind angst.
:shocked:
Ooooooooooooohhhhhhh NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:16 AM
If anyone actually did a survey I think they would find that the overwhelming majority of black people do have ID. This is just another instance of progressives splitting people apart and grouping them and then pitting the groups one against the other.
Quit bringing up black people and creating unneeded controversy.
Captain Obvious
03-24-2012, 09:17 AM
If I don't say it's racist, then liberals don't call it racist. Quit creating the monster under the bed to scare the shit out of yourselves.
It is, however, unconstitutional. You're trying once again to disparage voters, and to create laws (and a bigger government :shocked:) to attempt to turn elections in your own favor. This filth is not fooling anybody, and it doesn't have a chance. But carry on, if you must. It will be in vain.
Funny how liberals go all constitutional on issues they side with.
How is it unconstitutional to require someone to identify themselves to vote?
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:18 AM
Good vid. People who are on the bandwagon for no ID to vote are disrespecting minorities. I believe that very few people don't have ID. The ones who cast illegal votes have to be either illegal aliens or citizens who actually do have ID and are up to no good.
What minorities? Are you racist? huh? :wink: Why do you bring up "minorities?"
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:19 AM
Funny how liberals go all constitutional on issues they side with.
How is it unconstitutional to require someone to identify themselves to vote?
As of now, that is already accomplished just fine. What's the fucking problem? Why spend more money and create a bigger government? You don't think voting has been fair because Obama won the last election? Yeah. I think that must be it.
Alias
03-24-2012, 09:24 AM
If I don't say it's racist, then liberals don't call it racist. Quit creating the monster under the bed to scare the shit out of yourselves.
It is, however, unconstitutional. You're trying once again to disparage voters, and to create laws (and a bigger government :shocked:) to attempt to turn elections in your own favor. This filth is not fooling anybody, and it doesn't have a chance. But carry on, if you must. It will be in vain.
No, it's not "unconstitutional". ID is required for alcohol, cigarettes, cash a check, etc. Don't be silly.
Mister D
03-24-2012, 09:25 AM
Quit bringing up black people and creating unneeded controversy.
Sorry, but your liberal friends brought up "black people" and "minorities". You really have some nerve, son.
Alias
03-24-2012, 09:25 AM
What minorities? Are you racist? huh? :wink: Why do you bring up "minorities?"
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the Chairman of the Democrat Party brought it up.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:29 AM
New law:
All American voters must present a voter ID when voting. The ID will link to a database of records on the voter, and the voter must be clear of any violations. Violations may include: Failing to go to church. Failing to respect the GOP. Failing to recognize the white American race as supreme, regardless of own heritage. Engaging in any liberal activity. Previous liberal voting record. Failure to speak and write American. Failing to show patriotism. Failing to recognize that God wrote the constitution. Failing to recognize that Obama is an avowed Muslim. Failing to kill a Muslim within the last 30 days as a sign of national respect...
Captain Obvious
03-24-2012, 09:29 AM
As of now, that is already accomplished just fine. What's the fucking problem? Why spend more money and create a bigger government? You don't think voting has been fair because Obama won the last election? Yeah. I think that must be it.
A) You didn't answer the question (big surprise)
B) Why is it unreasonable to insist on credibility and integrity in our voting system? Or would you prefer a system like Iran or Russia where the vote is fraught with controversy and fraud?
The latter is a loaded question, btw.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:29 AM
Sorry, but your liberal friends brought up "black people" and "minorities". You really have some nerve, son.
And you're carrying the conversation, aren't you?
Mister D
03-24-2012, 09:30 AM
New law:
All American voters must present a voter ID when voting. The ID will link to a database of records on the voter, and the voter must be clear of any violations. Violations may include: Failing to go to church. Failing to respect the GOP. Failing to recognize the white American race as supreme, regardless of own heritage. Engaging in any liberal activity. Previous liberal voting record. Failure to speak and write American. Failing to show patriotism. Failing to recognize that God wrote the constitution. Failing to recognize that Obama is an avowed Muslim. Failing to kill a Muslim within the last 30 days as a sign of national respect...
New law? I've always presented an ID to vote.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:31 AM
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the Chairman of the Democrat Party brought it up.
You brought it up here. Why?
Mister D
03-24-2012, 09:32 AM
And you're carrying the conversation, aren't you?
If by "carry the conversation" you mean address dishonesty then, yes, when someone makes a frivolous accusation I "carry on the conversation".
Mister D
03-24-2012, 09:33 AM
You brought it up here. Why?
Because the lies and dishonesty of your ideological friends are worth addressing.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:33 AM
A) You didn't answer the question (big surprise)
B) Why is it unreasonable to insist on credibility and integrity in our voting system? Or would you prefer a system like Iran or Russia where the vote is fraught with controversy and fraud?
The latter is a loaded question, btw.
Fuck head.
The constitution does not require an ID for anybody to vote. I thought it would be self evident, sorry I didn't consider that it would likely escape you.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:34 AM
Because the lies and dishonesty of your ideological friends are worth addressing.
Because your "friends" are all righteous and all knowing and completely innocent, right?
Mister D
03-24-2012, 09:34 AM
I've always had to show ID to vote.
Mister D
03-24-2012, 09:35 AM
Because your "friends" are all righteous and all knowing and completely innocent, right?
Of making sensible voter IDs into a racial issue? Yes, my friends are looking rather good on this one. Thanks.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:36 AM
I've always had to show ID to vote.
Then what's the fucking problem?
Mister D
03-24-2012, 09:36 AM
Spunk, you pick some of the worst issues to make a stand on.
Mister D
03-24-2012, 09:36 AM
Then what's the fucking problem?
That's sort of what we're asking. Are you high?
Captain Obvious
03-24-2012, 09:37 AM
Fuck head.
The constitution does not require an ID for anybody to vote. I thought it would be self evident, sorry I didn't consider that it would likely escape you.
It's "fuckhead", one word.
Like "douchebag".
So the constitution doesn't require me to wipe my ass after taking a shit, does that mean that my habit of doing so is unconstitutional?
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:45 AM
It's "fuckhead", one word.
Like "douchebag".
So the constitution doesn't require me to wipe my ass after taking a shit, does that mean that my habit of doing so is unconstitutional?
If you try to force everybody else to do it it is.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:46 AM
That's sort of what we're asking. Are you high?
YES I AM.
Why was it an issue in the first place? Who are the ones setting the "racist" trap?
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:47 AM
It's "fuckhead", one word.
Like "douchebag".
So? I said fuck head. Got a problem?
Captain Obvious
03-24-2012, 09:48 AM
So? I said fuck head. Got a problem?
You're not going to address my issues, are you?
Just let me know, I'll move on to something more productive.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:50 AM
You're not going to address my issues, are you?
Just let me know, I'll move on to something more productive.
http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/2498-Are-Voter-ID-Laws-Really-Racist?p=49312&viewfull=1#post49312
PAY FUCKING ATTENTION.
Captain Obvious
03-24-2012, 09:51 AM
Moving on now...
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 09:53 AM
Moving on now...
Good. My point wins.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 10:25 AM
So there. :angry:
roadmaster
03-24-2012, 11:34 AM
Good. My point wins.
Actually it's not racist or unfair. This prevents either side to vote for ones already dead or not a citizen of the US. It happens here, heck even Canada has many problems with this when it comes to health care. People giving their cards to others to get free medical.
Most of the poor people can get ID's at no cost to them. This includes all races but some have been caught voting more than once and this is a good idea for both sides to assure no on cheats. Id laws are not racist to any race it just keeps them honest in which I think the majority are but you will always find some willing to get paid whatever race to try and get away with voting 10 to 12 times. One person even admitted to getting away with voting 20 times. Unconstitutional no, all people should be represented but none have the right to try and fool and deceive others. One vote per person is constitutional.
Mister D
03-24-2012, 11:36 AM
YES I AM.
Why was it an issue in the first place? Who are the ones setting the "racist" trap?
Your liberal friends.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 10:59 PM
Your liberal friends.
No. People like you.
spunkloaf
03-24-2012, 11:04 PM
Actually it's not racist or unfair. This prevents either side to vote for ones already dead or not a citizen of the US. It happens here, heck even Canada has many problems with this when it comes to health care. People giving their cards to others to get free medical.
Most of the poor people can get ID's at no cost to them. This includes all races but some have been caught voting more than once and this is a good idea for both sides to assure no on cheats. Id laws are not racist to any race it just keeps them honest in which I think the majority are but you will always find some willing to get paid whatever race to try and get away with voting 10 to 12 times. One person even admitted to getting away with voting 20 times. Unconstitutional no, all people should be represented but none have the right to try and fool and deceive others. One vote per person is constitutional.
This is about instating voting requirements which would advantage one kind of voter over another. If people's intentions are truly to eliminate voter fraud, then why not use a system which is more accurate and less burdening like fingerprinting?
Captain Obvious
03-24-2012, 11:16 PM
This is about instating voting requirements which would advantage one kind of voter over another. If people's intentions are truly to eliminate voter fraud, then why not use a system which is more accurate and less burdening like fingerprinting?
So based on your logic, we should just toss our drivers licenses, passports and library cards for fingerprinting?
Why stop there, how about DNA sampling?
Every pantie waist liberal is shitting the bed over getting frisked at the airport, yeah - I'm sure they'll love the concept of getting fingerprinted.
spunkloaf
03-25-2012, 12:05 AM
So based on your logic, we should just toss our drivers licenses, passports and library cards for fingerprinting?
Why stop there, how about DNA sampling?
Every pantie waist liberal is shitting the bed over getting frisked at the airport, yeah - I'm sure they'll love the concept of getting fingerprinted.
Guess what, prick?
It's less intrusive, more reliable, less of a hassle, and less expensive. There are systems already used everywhere with electronic fingerprint scanning. What's the matter?
Captain Obvious
03-25-2012, 07:49 AM
Guess what, prick?
It's less intrusive, more reliable, less of a hassle, and less expensive. There are systems already used everywhere with electronic fingerprint scanning. What's the matter?
I didn't realize you were an authority on the matter.
So when did you get a job selling these systems?
Mister D
03-25-2012, 09:36 AM
No. People like you.
I made this into a racial issue? Now you're just making a fool of yourself.
ramone
03-25-2012, 10:04 AM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/2498-Are-Voter-ID-Laws-Really-Racist?p=49312&viewfull=1#post49312
PAY FUCKING ATTENTION.
I gave you some advise on that anger issue. AA is a good place to seek help and I'm sure obama has set up some type anger management classes you can get for free, well not free. i'm paying for them but what the hell. For you Spunk, I'll do it.
Peter1469
03-25-2012, 10:59 AM
No sane person believes that voter ID laws hinder legal people from voting. However, preventing voter ID laws gets democrats elected, so the dem play book says that they have to say that voter ID laws are racist.
Those same minorities who somehow can't find their IDs to vote present them at the liquor store.
ramone
03-25-2012, 11:13 AM
No sane person believes that voter ID laws hinder legal people from voting. However, preventing voter ID laws gets democrats elected, so the dem play book says that they have to say that voter ID laws are racist.
Those same minorities who somehow can't find their IDs to vote present them at the liquor store.
Most states give out free ID cards, even if they have to spend 10 bucks to get one it is feasible. How the hell do they cash their welfare checks without a valid photo Id. I worked with a guy that didn't have a photo ID and I'd have to cash it for him at my bank. It's bullshit and they know it. You CANNOT cash a check without a valid photo id. They all have one and I know it to be fact.
Some different things that showing photo ID are required for. There could be more where you live.
1. Boarding an airplane
2. Writing a check
3. Cashing a check
4. Using a credit card
5. Driving a motor vehicle
6. Applying for a business license
7. Applying for permission to hold a protest or rally (even though this is a constitutional right)
8. Securing employment
9. Purchasing a house or real estate
10. Renting a domicile
11. Renting a motor vehicle
12. Purchasing a firearm (Includes BB guns) (even though this is a constitutional right)
13. Applying for a hunting license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
14. Applying for a fishing license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
15. Purchasing alcoholic beverages
16. Purchasing tobacco or products that contain nicotine
17. Purchasing a motor vehicle
18. Initial registration of a motor vehicle
19. Applying for a building permit
20. Receiving prescription medicine
21. Purchasing OTC medicine that contains pseudoephedrine
22. Serving on jury duty
23. Getting a bank account
24. Cash transactions of $5000.00 or greater
25. Sales tax exemption for people aged 80 and above
spunkloaf
03-25-2012, 05:57 PM
I still have not heard a good excuse against using electronic fingerprinting to validate votes. It would accomplish the same goal you all CLAIM to seek, and would require less responsibility on the part of the voter. That is, unless you want to make voting more difficult for people who cannot easily get IDs. If so, just say it! I already know you're prejudiced, so out with it.
spunkloaf
03-25-2012, 06:00 PM
No sane person believes that voter ID laws hinder legal people from voting. However, preventing voter ID laws gets democrats elected, so the dem play book says that they have to say that voter ID laws are racist.
Those same minorities who somehow can't find their IDs to vote present them at the liquor store.
Stop being a ****, Bristol.
spunkloaf
03-25-2012, 06:06 PM
Most states give out free ID cards, even if they have to spend 10 bucks to get one it is feasible. How the hell do they cash their welfare checks without a valid photo Id. I worked with a guy that didn't have a photo ID and I'd have to cash it for him at my bank. It's bullshit and they know it. You CANNOT cash a check without a valid photo id. They all have one and I know it to be fact.
Who says that this is about people on welfare?
There's no constitutional law requiring people to have an ID to vote. You're trying to make one which would stack the deck in your favor, because you believe (believe is a key word) that people are submitting invalid votes which would undermine your political interest. Any question of why it would not be a good rule is mute because it's not a rule to begin with--and it doesn't need to be.
You're being a sore loser, it's that simple.
Conley
03-25-2012, 06:07 PM
If you ever decide to quit with the insults and have a reasoned discussion let me know. Otherwise there's no point in replying to your posts.
As someone who does have liberal views on a lot of issues, it bothers me that your behavior simply perpetuates the stereotype of an angry liberal unable to support your argument with facts and instead has to resort to name calling.
Peter1469
03-25-2012, 07:14 PM
I still have not heard a good excuse against using electronic fingerprinting to validate votes. It would accomplish the same goal you all CLAIM to seek, and would require less responsibility on the part of the voter. That is, unless you want to make voting more difficult for people who cannot easily get IDs. If so, just say it! I already know you're prejudiced, so out with it.
How about adding the fingerprint to an ID.
Peter1469
03-25-2012, 07:14 PM
Stop being a ****, Bristol.
What would you know about cunts?
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 11:38 AM
If you ever decide to quit with the insults and have a reasoned discussion let me know. Otherwise there's no point in replying to your posts.
As someone who does have liberal views on a lot of issues, it bothers me that your behavior simply perpetuates the stereotype of an angry liberal unable to support your argument with facts and instead has to resort to name calling.
Fine. I'll stop for now. Next time I feel insulted by somebody and you don't recognize it enough to call it out like you always do mine, I'm unleashing the same amount of arrogant hatred I've been displaying in a double dose. It would be nice if you also recognize the more civil posts I make instead of always busting my balls, and allowing me to get thrown under the bus by everybody else and looking the other way. Here's a smiley. :smiley:
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 11:40 AM
How about adding the fingerprint to an ID.
How bout eliminating the card and eliminating the expense? :shocked: Is that TOO conservative?
Mister D
03-27-2012, 11:40 AM
Is "arrogance" the word of the month, Spunk? Conley is not here to validate your feelings. You make a spectacle of yourself as you have these past few days don't act like no one is supposed to notice.
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 11:42 AM
Is "arrogance" the word of the month, Spunk? Conley is not here to validate your feelings. You make a spectacle of yourself as you have these past few days don't act like no one is supposed to notice.
Yes, arrogance is a word I like to use. Yes, I'm being an asshole. I'm simply mirroring the behavior I'm seeing from people, and just as I suspected I'm getting the brunt of the punishment from it while others are being ignored.
Conley
03-27-2012, 11:43 AM
Fine. I'll stop for now. Next time I feel insulted by somebody and you don't recognize it enough to call it out like you always do mine, I'm unleashing the same amount of arrogant hatred I've been displaying in a double dose. It would be nice if you also recognize the more civil posts I make instead of always busting my balls, and allowing me to get thrown under the bus by everybody else and looking the other way. Here's a smiley. :smiley:
Is it wrong that I hold you to a higher standard? Like I said, I've known you a long time. I expect more from you. :grin:
Conley
03-27-2012, 11:43 AM
How bout eliminating the card and eliminating the expense? :shocked: Is that TOO conservative?
A national fingerprinting system for voting would cost a lot more. ID cards have many uses besides voting.
Mister D
03-27-2012, 11:44 AM
Yes, arrogance is a word I like to use. Yes, I'm being an asshole. I'm simply mirroring the behavior I'm seeing from people, and just as I suspected I'm getting the brunt of the punishment from it while others are being ignored.
Perhaps they are being ignored because their asshole moments are eclipsed by your asshole days going on a week now?
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 11:47 AM
A national fingerprinting system for voting would cost a lot more. ID cards have many uses besides voting.
Fingerprinting can replace everything an ID is used for. It would cost way less, it would prevent alot more fraud, and it would make everybody happy. :smiley: Again, unless one's goal with ID cards is to make life harder for people.
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 11:47 AM
Perhaps they are being ignored because their asshole moments are eclipsed by your asshole days going on a week now?
Want it to become a month? For real, back off.
Mister D
03-27-2012, 11:48 AM
Fingerprinting can replace everything an ID is used for. It would cost way less, it would prevent alot more fraud, and it would make everybody happy. :smiley: Again, unless one's goal with ID cards is to make life harder for people.
I carry my ID with me almost everywhere I go. Don't you?
Conley
03-27-2012, 11:49 AM
Fingerprinting can replace everything an ID is used for. It would cost way less, it would prevent alot more fraud, and it would make everybody happy. :smiley: Again, unless one's goal with ID cards is to make life harder for people.
How in the world would it cost less? You want to put an electronic fingerprint reader in every store in the country that sells tobacco and alcohol? This is not cheaper than a five second check by a cashier.
Mister D
03-27-2012, 12:00 PM
Want it to become a month? For real, back off.
Is that a threat, son?
Peter1469
03-27-2012, 03:03 PM
How would the finger print alone thing work? Scan it for ID without having a physical ID? Seems more intrusive than ID card.
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 04:45 PM
How would the finger print alone thing work? Scan it for ID without having a physical ID? Seems more intrusive than ID card.
Very simple. Fingerprint scanners are becoming more cheap and platform-universal by the year. It can link to an encrypted database which has your picture, which would serve all purposes of verifying somebody's identity and legal status. Contrarily, your ID card can be lost or stolen and the information obtained can be used to look up sensitive personal information with certain information providers, such as the one I use at work for debt collections.
Mister D
03-27-2012, 04:47 PM
I carry my ID almost everywhere I go. Don't you, Spunk?
Peter1469
03-27-2012, 05:04 PM
How about an RFID chip in your hand?
I carry my ID almost everywhere I go. Don't you, Spunk?
I do and I lived all my life in a liberal state. Maybe I was just thinking subconsciously:icon_scratch: that I was surrounded and my automatic defensive mechanisms set into motion. :f_zen: :laugh:
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 05:12 PM
How about an RFID chip in your hand?
We're not tracking people's fingerprints with radio waves. There's very little correlation between the RFID and fingerprinting technologies.
roadmaster
03-27-2012, 06:05 PM
This is about instating voting requirements which would advantage one kind of voter over another. If people's intentions are truly to eliminate voter fraud, then why not use a system which is more accurate and less burdening like fingerprinting?
I understand what you are saying but fingerprinting to me violates my rights unless I commit a crime. I changed banks because one started doing this. Maybe it's just me but I am not for everyone having to be fingerprinted. But you are right, people will find a way to commit voter fraud but there are many honest people out there of all quote races. I don't understand what you mean by on kind of voter over another. Are you saying most poor people don't have Id's?
Mister D
03-27-2012, 06:14 PM
Spunk, I carry my ID almost everywhere I go. Don't you?
RollingWave
03-27-2012, 08:31 PM
You need ID to vote in Taiwan, though on the other hand all eligable voters are a automatically registered anyway and the ballots send to your registered address. I think these are two issues mixed up in a weird way, the US voting laws could do more to make voting less of a hassal, but not requring ID seem like the wrong move to address that issue.
Mister D
03-27-2012, 08:33 PM
I've always had to show my ID when I went to vote.
Mister D
03-27-2012, 08:33 PM
Spunk, I carry my ID almost everywhere I go. Don't you?
Bump for Spunkloaf. It's the 5th time I've asked.
Peter1469
03-27-2012, 08:51 PM
Me too.
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 10:45 PM
I understand what you are saying but fingerprinting to me violates my rights unless I commit a crime. I changed banks because one started doing this. Maybe it's just me but I am not for everyone having to be fingerprinted. But you are right, people will find a way to commit voter fraud but there are many honest people out there of all quote races. I don't understand what you mean by on kind of voter over another. Are you saying most poor people don't have Id's?
I get it. You hear "fingerprint" and you think of a criminal. Understandable. When you think of it, it is the least invasive and most secure way of keeping a system of identity. All sensitive information would be stored in an encrypted database (no different than how it is now). The only way to access or change that information is to provide a unique fingerprint.
I am saying that yes, it may be difficult for lower class citizens to comply with an ID law, mostly because of their bigger obstacles. I can't think of a nicer way to say it. There are so many lower class citizens who don't require an ID for one reason or another, the law would also actually discourage many from voting. That may be something the right wing sees as an advantage to themselves. However a fingerprint ID system would require no extra forms or trips to an office to get an ID. The system could be entirely participatory, just like the ID card system, except it is less work for the voter. This is not to mention that there is less manufacturing and paper costs for cards and registration. Additionally, it would provide lots more accuracy and would prevent more fraud than any other available method.
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 10:49 PM
Bump for Spunkloaf. It's the 5th time I've asked.
Me too.
I was trying to find the best way to word it. Read my response to roadmaster, it will explain. You can both rebut that.
spunkloaf
03-27-2012, 11:16 PM
How would the finger print alone thing work? Scan it for ID without having a physical ID? Seems more intrusive than ID card.
Big difference. It's much harder to make a fake fingerprint than a fake ID card. One could hack the database with alot of effort, but any damages can be traced and reversed.
As it is right now you can initialize your identity in any exclusive system by entering the identifying information, having picture taken, and initiating your fingerprint signature with an administrator of the system. This is already done in many places, like the place I donated plasma at. The first time is the only time that you would need to provide proof of identity. Anytime you use your fingerprint after that, your identity can be instantly verified. It's not that difficult.
With the kinds of encryption technology we have, there could even be a universal identity system which can be accessed at certain permission levels from different entities. It may sound creepy because it's something we're not used to, but at its heart it is just a way more efficient and more secured version of the system that is already in place. You can allow your bank or library to access a low level of permission to simply verify your identity, alternatively you can give the DMV a higher level of permission to alter your record and update your driver license status. Perhaps that can be done by having two prints on file: one finger for low-level access, the other for high-level access. There are also eye-scanning technologies and voice-recognition technologies out there. The possibilities are endless. I would not doubt that in a decade or so we start shifting to these forms of identification technologies and drift away from the old days of identification cards.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 06:48 AM
It probably won't take a decade.
I still disagree that poor people don't have ID cards, but you are correct about the path that identification is going in the future.
Most of the poor people I know do have ID cards.....and most of them had 2 or 3 kids. All going for that DL as soon as they can.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 07:53 AM
I was trying to find the best way to word it. Read my response to roadmaster, it will explain. You can both rebut that.
Best way to explain? KI asked if you carry your ID almost everywhere you go. You do, don't you? I thought so. We know Democrats drive cars and buy booze. Why can't they show an ID when they vote?
RollingWave
03-28-2012, 09:52 AM
Most of the poor people I know do have ID cards.....and most of them had 2 or 3 kids. All going for that DL as soon as they can.
when I first skim through this I thought you said that most of them had 2 or 3 ID cards :grin:
Mister D
03-28-2012, 10:02 AM
when I first skim through this I thought you said that most of them had 2 or 3 ID cards :grin:
Nah they have 2 or 3 televisions and air conditioners. :wink:
Mainecoons
03-28-2012, 11:23 AM
Let me enlighten you as to how the Democrats do ballot fraud in the absence of voter ID. It is really very simple. The voter rolls everywhere are full of dead people and people who have moved. Since those rolls are public information, it is very easy for campaign operatives to determine who those people are and send shills in to claim they are that person and hence are there to vote. Voter ID ends that game.
When I was studying campaign management and running campaigns, the experts explained to us that the Dems could steal about 2 percent of the vote. This is why they always win those close contests like Minnesota Senate, a stolen election if ever there was one. So they told us we had to win by more than that to cancel it out
Elections are highly divided now. Basically, the U.S. is two countries--the deluded liberals who keep piling on more government as though that would fix anything, and the rest of us. That is why I honestly believe the best solution is to give them their own country and the rest of us ours. The only downside I can see is that shortly our country would be bordered by bankrupt collapsed states whose entitlement babies would don their hoodies and be rioting in the streets. We'd probably have to spend a lot of money on fences.
:laugh:
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 12:22 PM
Best way to explain? KI asked if you carry your ID almost everywhere you go. You do, don't you? I thought so. We know Democrats drive cars and buy booze. Why can't they show an ID when they vote?
Why should they have to?
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 12:23 PM
Let me enlighten you as to how the Democrats do ballot fraud in the absence of voter ID. It is really very simple. The voter rolls everywhere are full of dead people and people who have moved. Since those rolls are public information, it is very easy for campaign operatives to determine who those people are and send shills in to claim they are that person and hence are there to vote. Voter ID ends that game.
When I was studying campaign management and running campaigns, the experts explained to us that the Dems could steal about 2 percent of the vote. This is why they always win those close contests like Minnesota Senate, a stolen election if ever there was one. So they told us we had to win by more than that to cancel it out
Elections are highly divided now. Basically, the U.S. is two countries--the deluded liberals who keep piling on more government as though that would fix anything, and the rest of us. That is why I honestly believe the best solution is to give them their own country and the rest of us ours. The only downside I can see is that shortly our country would be bordered by bankrupt collapsed states whose entitlement babies would don their hoodies and be rioting in the streets. We'd probably have to spend a lot of money on fences.
:laugh:
If you say so. :rollseyes:
Conley
03-28-2012, 12:25 PM
That is why I honestly believe the best solution is to give them their own country and the rest of us ours. The only downside I can see is that shortly our country would be bordered by bankrupt collapsed states whose entitlement babies would don their hoodies and be rioting in the streets. We'd probably have to spend a lot of money on fences.
:laugh:
Actually, if you look at federal tax dollars collected and distributed you'll see that the "blue" states support the "red" ones.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 12:26 PM
Most of the poor people I know do have ID cards.....and most of them had 2 or 3 kids. All going for that DL as soon as they can.
We're not going to inhibit the liberties of some so that you can feel like the election is more fair.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 12:29 PM
Why should they have to?
You must have it when you engage in certain activities, such as driving, buying liquor etc. Better still, I always show it when I vote. So do you. In fact, you carry your ID almost everywhere you go. We all do.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 12:31 PM
We're not going to inhibit the liberties of some so that you can feel like the election is more fair.
ID must be presented by all voters. It's quite fair.
Conley
03-28-2012, 12:31 PM
If you don't have an id card then you have bigger problems in your life than voting. Maybe I'm dense but I still can't see a single tangible reason why requiring id to vote would be a problem for any rational person.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 12:40 PM
If you don't have an id card then you have bigger problems in your life than voting. Maybe I'm dense but I still can't see a single tangible reason why requiring id to vote would be a problem for any rational person.
There is only one reason and we all know what it is.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 12:42 PM
You must have it when you engage in certain activities, such as driving, buying liquor etc. Better still, I always show it when I vote.
That's you then. Good job for you. :thumbsup20: We don't need more laws, the ones that are there are just fine.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 12:43 PM
There is only one reason and we all know what it is.
There are multiple reasons, and the only one you think of is not one.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 12:47 PM
There are multiple reasons, and the only one you think of is not one.
What are those reasons?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 12:49 PM
That's you then. Good job for you. :thumbsup20: We don't need more laws, the ones that are there are just fine.
It's too much for you to carry your ID to the voting booth so you can prove who you are when you carry it everywhere else?
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 12:54 PM
What are those reasons?
It's not in the constitution, it places more undue burden on citizens, it discourages people from voting (we need more people to vote) and makes an unfair disadvantage for people who don't use ID's for anything. What's your one reason?
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 12:55 PM
It's too much for you to carry your ID to the voting booth so you can prove who you are when you carry it everywhere else?
It doesn't matter. What's the point of the question?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 01:00 PM
It's not in the constitution, it places more undue burden on citizens, it discourages people from voting (we need more people to vote) and makes an unfair disadvantage for people who don't use ID's for anything. What's your one reason?
Why is it an undue burden? Americans already carry their IDs and must produce them for all sorts of things (e.g. proving who they are! :grin:). Am I unduly burdened by having to carry my license with me in my car? Hey, that's not in the constitution either! :laugh: It discourages people from voting about as much as it discourages people from buying beer and driving (i.e. not at all). You're really grasping just like your liberal Democrat friends. You always pick a loser.
Why are you so afraid of Democratioc voters needing to prove their identity?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 01:02 PM
It doesn't matter. What's the point of the question?
Sure it does. You can't think of single reason why requiring a photo ID to vote is an undue burden.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 01:12 PM
Why is it an undue burden? Americans already carry their IDs and must produce them for all sorts of things (e.g. proving who they are! :grin:). Am I unduly burdened by having to carry my license with me in my car? Hey, that's not in the constitution either! :laugh: It discourages people from voting about as much as it discourages people from buying beer and driving (i.e. not at all). You're really grasping just like your liberal Democrat friends. You always pick a loser.
Why are you so afraid of Democratioc voters needing to prove their identity?
Why are you trying to support more laws and restrictions?
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 01:13 PM
And, what's the one reason we all know that democrats don't want voter ID laws?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 01:13 PM
Why are you trying to support more laws and restrictions?
Many laws are justifiable and sensible. It's a civilization...you know? Why wouldnt I support a justifiable and sensible law? Anyway, what are liberals so afraid of?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 01:14 PM
And, what's the one reason we all know that democrats don't want voter ID laws?
I'd like you to tell us but it doesn't seem like you can. :grin:
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 01:18 PM
Many laws are justifiable and sensible. It's a civilization...you know? Why wouldnt I support a justifiable and sensible law? Anyway, what are liberals so afraid of?
Losing more liberty.
Voter ID laws are not racist, they are just ineffective and unnecessary.
Mainecoons
03-28-2012, 01:23 PM
You have no clue what you're talking about, as usual.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 01:24 PM
Losing more liberty.
Voter ID laws are not racist, they are just ineffective and unnecessary.
Your liberty not to identify yourself for voting purposes? :laugh:
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 01:27 PM
You have no clue what you're talking about, as usual.
Don't be mean, asshole.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 01:28 PM
Your liberty not to identify yourself for voting purposes? :laugh:
:laugh:
Why are we laughing? :huh:
Mister D
03-28-2012, 01:29 PM
:laugh:
Why are we laughing? :huh:
Because your desperation is amusing. :laugh:
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 01:33 PM
Because your desperation is amusing. :laugh:
I'm not the one who can't come up with good reasons to place more restrictions on voting. I'm still waiting to hear that. How is your freedom or safety hindered by the absence of a law requiring an ID to vote?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 01:45 PM
I'm not the one who can't come up with good reasons to place more restrictions on voting. I'm still waiting to hear that. How is your freedom or safety hindered by the absence of a law requiring an ID to vote?
What restrictions? The requirement to produce identification at the liquor store, forexample, is not a restriction on buying liquor. It's merely the enforcement of existing law. Likewise, producing ID when one votes (which most of us already do to comply with existing law) is not a restriction on voting. Illegal aliens may not vote. That is a restriction on voting. Why don't liberals want these laws enforced?
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 01:49 PM
If you don't have an id card then you have bigger problems in your life than voting. Maybe I'm dense but I still can't see a single tangible reason why requiring id to vote would be a problem for any rational person.
To facilitate voter fraud?
Mainecoons
03-28-2012, 02:07 PM
There's no restriction on voting, Spunk, you fool. Any more than checking your ID to make sure you're the person who owns the credit card something is being charged to.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 03:22 PM
What restrictions? The requirement to produce identification at the liquor store, forexample, is not a restriction on buying liquor. It's merely the enforcement of existing law. Likewise, producing ID when one votes (which most of us already do to comply with existing law) is not a restriction on voting. Illegal aliens may not vote. That is a restriction on voting. Why don't liberals want these laws enforced?
Because it's more laws and bigger government.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 03:24 PM
There's no restriction on voting, Spunk, you fool. Any more than checking your ID to make sure you're the person who owns the credit card something is being charged to.
Quit with the rudeness. If I gotta get yelled at by people for being rude, then I'm certainly not going to take shit from you. Might as well not talk to me if you insist on being like that.
Conley
03-28-2012, 03:27 PM
Calling someone a fool - isn't that ad hom? :grin:
Mister D
03-28-2012, 03:29 PM
Because it's more laws and bigger government.
There are no new restrictions. You're floundering, Spunk.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 03:34 PM
There are no new restrictions. You're floundering, Spunk.
Besides the point.
The title of this thread is: "Are Voter ID Laws Really Racist?" I just proved that nobody is calling it racist, and that people like you are just trying to create more unneeded controversy.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 03:37 PM
Besides the point.
The title of this thread is: "Are Voter ID Laws Really Racist?" I just proved that nobody is calling it racist, and that people like you are just trying to create more unneeded controversy.
You proved that no one is calling it racist? What? :laugh:
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 03:42 PM
It's ALEC-inspired. Koch-funded. Deliberately misleading. And yes, racist to an extent - because people of color usually vote Democrat.
Supporters of discriminatory voter ID laws say they're needed to stop "voter fraud." The fact is that voter fraud rarely occurs, and when it does occur it does not happen at a scale that would change the outcome of an election. The kind of voter fraud addressed by the ALEC voter id bill happens as infrequently as death by lightning. Over and over again, the myth of widespread voter fraud is used to justify stronger restrictions on voting and voter registration (like voter ID laws), as well as voter roll purges. It has also been used to attack organizations which register large numbers of low income and minority voters, by painting simple mistakes made during registration drives as organized efforts to commit voter fraud. These kind of made up scandals have helped the right wing convince the public that voter fraud is real and voter ID laws are necessary to protect the integrity of elections.
The truth is that voter ID laws are discriminatory — Black people, Latinos, the elderly, students, people with disabilities, and the poor are all less likely to have the photo IDs necessary to vote under these laws.6 For example, if you've recently moved because of foreclosure or some other economic circumstance, you're more likely to have recently ended up in a new state which won't accept your out of state driver's license. If you don't have a car, you're less likely to have a driver's license in the first place.
http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-quinnell/color-change-launches-campaign-ag
Mister D
03-28-2012, 03:51 PM
There are no "discriminatory" voter ID laws and they are not kind of or sort of racist. That's nonsense. If only black people, for example, were required to show a photo ID (I can't ever remember not producing one at town hall) you might have a point but that's not the case. Such a requirement would apply to us all. Frankly, if a segment of the voting public is simply too lazy to get a photo ID then it's probably better for our republic if they stayed home.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 03:52 PM
Besides the point.
The title of this thread is: "Are Voter ID Laws Really Racist?" I just proved that nobody is calling it racist, and that people like you are just trying to create more unneeded controversy.
Someone just called them racist. You were a barrel of laughs today. :smiley_ROFLMAO:
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 03:55 PM
There are no "discriminatory" voter ID laws and they are not kind of or sort of racist. That's nonsense. If only black people, for example, were required to show a photo ID (I can't ever remember not producing one at town hall) you might have a point but that's not the case. Such a requirement would apply to us all. Frankly, if a segment of the voting public is simply too lazy to get a photo ID then it's probably better for our republic if they stayed home.
So you are unable to see how black people, Latinos, the elderly, students, people with disabilities, and the poor are singled out with this requirement. Noted. ;)
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:00 PM
How States are Rigging the 2012 Election
An attack on the right to vote is underway across the country through laws designed to make it more difficult to cast a ballot. If this were happening in an emerging democracy, we’d condemn it as election-rigging. But it’s happening here, so there’s barely a whimper.
The laws are being passed in the name of preventing “voter fraud.” But study (http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/truthaboutvoterfraud/) after study (http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/cup_detail.taf?ti_id=5637) has shown that fraud by voters is not a major problem — and is less of a problem than how hard many states make it for people to vote in the first place. Some of the new laws, notably those limiting the number of days for early voting, have little plausible connection to battling fraud.
These statutes are not neutral. Their greatest impact will be to reduce turnout among African Americans, Latinos and the young. It is no accident that these groups were key to Barack Obama’s victory in 2008 — or that the laws in question are being enacted in states where Republicans control state governments.
Again, think of what this would look like to a dispassionate observer. A party wins an election, as the GOP did in 2010. Then it changes the election laws in ways that benefit itself. In a democracy, the electorate is supposed to pick the politicians. With these laws, politicians are shaping their electorates.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-states-are-rigging-the-2012-election/2011/06/19/AGCdB3bH_story.html
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:02 PM
So you are unable to see how black people, Latinos, the elderly, students, people with disabilities, and the poor are singled out with this requirement. Noted. ;)
Right. I fail to see that. On my way home I'm bound to see black people driving. Hispanics and older people too! :grin: If you care about voting and you don't have a photo ID then get one.It's easy and often free. If you'd rather not, you obviously don't care much about voting.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 04:04 PM
Yes, it is not a serious argument that people can't get IDs in modern America. It is a ruse to facilitate voter fraud.
Many states will even pick a poor person up at home, drive them to the ID office, pay for the ID, and drive the poor person back home.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:05 PM
Right. I fail to see that. On my way home I'm bound to see black people driving. Hispanics and older people too! :grin: If you care about voting and you don't have a photo ID then get one.It's easy and often free. If you'd rather not, you obviously don't care much about voting.
Read the stuff I posted. If after reading what I posted you still cannot recognize that there is a concerted effort underway to SUPPRESS votes from groups most likely to vote Democrat, then you are willfully trying not to see it.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:09 PM
Someone just called them racist. You were a barrel of laughs today. :smiley_ROFLMAO:
So let me get this straight. You don't wank black people to vote, right?
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 04:10 PM
Read the stuff I posted. If after reading what I posted you still cannot recognize that there is a concerted effort underway to SUPPRESS votes from groups most likely to vote Democrat, then you are willfully trying not to see it.
If your claim was that there is a concerted effort underway to keep people from voting multiple times (for Democrats) then we would be in agreement.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:13 PM
If your claim was that there is a concerted effort underway to keep people from voting multiple times (for Democrats) then we would be in agreement.
So you'd be ok with republicans voting multiple times? That's what it looks like.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:13 PM
If your claim was that there is a concerted effort underway to keep people from voting multiple times (for Democrats) then we would be in agreement.
That's not my claim. Go read the EJ Dione article I linked.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:17 PM
Yes, it is not a serious argument that people can't get IDs in modern America. It is a ruse to facilitate voter fraud.
Many states will even pick a poor person up at home, drive them to the ID office, pay for the ID, and drive the poor person back home.
That's not factual. It's what you believe, and it's wrong.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 04:18 PM
So you'd be ok with republicans voting multiple times? That's what it looks like.
Of course not. I was responding to the allegation that people who somehow can't obtain an ID card in 21st Century America only vote Dem.
And no you did not think that I was advocating that Repubs should be able to vote twice.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 04:19 PM
That's not my claim. Go read the EJ Dione article I linked.
It was my characterization of your claim.
E.J. "I see White People" Dione is a far left race baiter who hasn't written a coherent sentence in years. I read him for a good laugh.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 04:20 PM
That's not factual. It's what you believe, and it's wrong.
It is factual Spunk, and you know it.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:20 PM
I have a solution. Instead of rooting for big government, why don't you just use the same playing field we're all on and facilitate your own voting fraud maneuvers? Since you believe that is what is going on and others are getting away with it, nothing is stopping you from doing it too.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:22 PM
'Voter fraud' is a fraudulent term.
Just as ALEC’s “Stand Your Ground” Laws (http://my.firedoglake.com/spocko/2012/03/21/are-violent-racists-good-customers-who-profits-from-the-treyvon-shooting/) don’t seem to have done much to stop crime but have definitely allowed paranoid bigots to act out their deadliest desires (http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Castle_Doctrine), ALEC’s voter ID laws, which their backers tout as a way to stop the nonexistent problem of people using fake IDs to vote, have instead kept at least nine voters who have every right to vote from being able to do so (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/22/449243/report-nine-people-denied-voting-rights-by-voter-id-laws/). Here are some of their stories:
http://firedoglake.com/2012/03/23/late-night-victims-of-alec-voter-id-laws-nine-and-counting/
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:23 PM
It was my characterization of your claim.
E.J. "I see White People" Dione is a far left race baiter who hasn't written a coherent sentence in years. I read him for a good laugh.
Except that you don't really read him. 'Attack the messenger' is stale. Refute the claims in his article if you want to impress me. ;)
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:27 PM
'Voter fraud' is a fraudulent term.
http://firedoglake.com/2012/03/23/late-night-victims-of-alec-voter-id-laws-nine-and-counting/
:danceshout::dau:
:greatjob:
So you are unable to see how black people, Latinos, the elderly, students, people with disabilities, and the poor are singled out with this requirement. Noted. ;)
So how's that work out if they are voting Republican?And Or Independant?(since that was the part missing from EJ) Yes.....noted EJDionne major critic of the Bush Administration, supports Democrats and writes from the liberal point of view. Mainstay on MSDNC. So are we to take this writers word that he says all these people will be affected. Did he forget to mention the fact that if all legal Citizens are mandated to have an ID, that there can be no discrimination.
Moreover did he say anything about the Democrats who were the first and this year making sure those urban Districts are all gerrymandered.(NY, Chi, L.A. just to name the top 3 largest cities in the country) How they have forced Republicans to face off against one another? Even thoDemocrats control the State and Cities governments of the Top 3 alone) Althought this backfired with Kucinich.....huh? Not to mention Jesse Jackson Jr and the Demo he is facing. Or was it intentional that the Demos and Obama wanted to drive out the one man on their side that was 100% about the Constitution.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:28 PM
So let me get this straight. You don't wank black people to vote, right?
Spunk slips into the usual liberal routine...so sad.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:30 PM
Read the stuff I posted. If after reading what I posted you still cannot recognize that there is a concerted effort underway to SUPPRESS votes from groups most likely to vote Democrat, then you are willfully trying not to see it.
I'm sorry but I don't read liberal hysterics. More importantly, opinion pieces are not evidence of anything other than the fact that some liberal thinks the ID requirements are racist. It's not impressive.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:31 PM
So how's that work out if they are voting Republican?And Or Independant?(since that was the part missing from EJ) Yes.....noted EJDionne major critic of the Bush Administration, supports Democrats and writes from the liberal point of view. Mainstay on MSDNC. So are we to take this writers word that he says all these people will be affected. Did he forget to mention the fact that if all legal Citizens are mandated to have an ID, that there can be no discrimination.
Moreover did he say anything about the Democrats who were the first and this year making sure those urban Districts are all gerrymandered.(NY, Chi, L.A. just to name the top 3 largest cities in the country) How they have forced Republicans to face off against one another? Even thoDemocrats control the State and Cities governments of the Top 3 alone) Althought this backfired with Kucinich.....huh? Not to mention Jesse Jackson Jr and the Demo he is facing. Or was it intentional that the Demos and Obama wanted to drive out the one man on their side that was 100% about the Constitution.
We don't need a federal law requiring anybody to have an ID to vote.
Like I said before. If you think there's a bunch of voter fraud and people are getting away with it, nothing is stopping you from doing the same thing.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:32 PM
Spunk slips into the usual liberal routine...so sad.
No, you insist the discussion is about race. Do you or do you not want black people to vote?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:33 PM
I have a solution. Instead of rooting for big government, why don't you just use the same playing field we're all on and facilitate your own voting fraud maneuvers? Since you believe that is what is going on and others are getting away with it, nothing is stopping you from doing it too.
Are you still here? You don't embarrass easily, do you? Right after you "prove" no one is calling the requirement "racist" someone here does exactly that.
Sorry, Spunk. Only liberals seem to think voter fraud is not something to be concerned about.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:34 PM
No, you insist the discussion is about race. Do you or do you not want black people to vote?
Someone just called the requirements racist making you look like a fool. Not that you needed any help. And you even thanked her! :laugh:
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:35 PM
I'm sorry but I don't read liberal hysterics. More importantly, opinion pieces are not evidence of anything other than the fact that some liberal thinks the ID requirements are racist. It's not impressive.
Neither are your antics against liberals. If what you attest made any sense at all, I'd stop being one.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:36 PM
No, you insist the discussion is about race. Do you or do you not want black people to vote?
<<<<<< sarcasm alert >>>>>
It's not racist! The only reason they don't want blacks to vote is because they usually vote Democrat. How is that racist?:smiley_ROFLMAO:
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:36 PM
Someone just called the requirements racist making you look like a fool. Not that you needed any help. And you even thanked her! :laugh:
Do you or do you not want black people to vote? Or are you going to keep dodging the question?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:38 PM
Read the stuff I posted. If after reading what I posted you still cannot recognize that there is a concerted effort underway to SUPPRESS votes from groups most likely to vote Democrat, then you are willfully trying not to see it.
BTW, even if this were true (it's not) there is a very simple way to beat those efforts. Get a photo ID. They are very easy to get and often free. Again, if the people in question couldn't be bothered than it's probably better that they stay home.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:39 PM
Do you or do you not want black people to vote? Or are you going to keep dodging the question?
I'm not dodging it at all. I'm simply not dignifying it.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:40 PM
I'm sorry but I don't read liberal hysterics. More importantly, opinion pieces are not evidence of anything other than the fact that some liberal thinks the ID requirements are racist. It's not impressive.
There isn't anything hysterical about the Dione article. Perhaps you should delve a little deeper rather than issuing a blanket statement simply because you don't find charges of racism "impressive". The fact is that the requirement IS racist, but its deliberately-exclusionary strategy doesn't stop at race. The point is to oppress votes for Democrats. I have posted more than "opinion pieces" to demonstrate this that you refuse to read because you have already formed your position.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:42 PM
<<<<<< sarcasm alert >>>>>
It's not racist! The only reason they don't want blacks to vote is because they usually vote Democrat. How is that racist?:smiley_ROFLMAO:
Actually, that's a good question. Even if that were true it still wouldn't be "racist". Oops!
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:42 PM
<<<<<< sarcasm alert >>>>>
It's not racist! The only reason they don't want blacks to vote is because they usually vote Democrat. How is that racist?:smiley_ROFLMAO:
They want to make it a more difficult playing field because they think that it is unfair. What they don't realize is that the playing field is perfectly even the way it is. They want to claim it's unfair to make themselves the victims and validate their claims that liberals are getting away with things that they can't get away with themselves. It's sick. If there were a more honest route of promoting their ideals, you'd think they'd take it.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:44 PM
I'm not dodging it at all. I'm simply not dignifying it.
Then it will be entirely safe to assume that you are just trying to stack the deck (it's a figure of speech) in your favor because you don't want blacks--or any liberal for that matter, to vote. Defend yourself against it, or admit it.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:44 PM
More about the voter I.D. requirement. Mister D - please don't read this. LOL
Justice Department Rejects South Carolina Voter ID Law (http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/12/24/justice-department-rejects-south-carolina-voter-id-law/)
By: David Dayen (http://news.firedoglake.com/author/dday/) Saturday December 24, 2011 9:17 am
http://static1.firedoglake.com/common/images/twitter_favicon_2.pngTweet (http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/12/24/justice-department-rejects-south-carolina-voter-id-law/#) http://static1.firedoglake.com/plugins/share-this/images//digg.gif (http://digg.com/submit?phase=2&url=http://fdl.me/t94Zhs&title=Justice+Department+Rejects+South+Carolina+Vo ter+ID+Law) http://static1.firedoglake.com/plugins/share-this/images//stumbleupon.gif (http://www.stumbleupon.com/submit?url=http://fdl.me/t94Zhs&title=Justice+Department+Rejects+South+Carolina+Vo ter+ID+Law) (http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=25754&akst_action=share-this)
The Justice Department, under the authority granted to them by Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, rejected a voter ID law (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/12/23/us/AP-US-Voter-ID-South-Carolina.html) from South Carolina, making good on a promise to exercise vigilance on voting rights as we near the 2012 elections.
Per the Voting Rights Act, DoJ must pre-clear changes to election law in nine mostly Southern states, because of past incidents where those states failed to protect the voting rights of minorities. In its ruling, the Justice Department alleged that the voter ID law would make it harder for minorities to cast their ballots, because many lack a current eligible ID card.
The Obama administration said South Carolina’s law didn’t meet the burden under the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which outlawed discriminatory practices preventing blacks from voting. Tens of thousands of minorities in South Carolina might not be able to cast ballots under South Carolina’s law because they don’t have the right photo ID, Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez said [...]
http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/12/24/justice-department-rejects-south-carolina-voter-id-law/
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:45 PM
There isn't anything hysterical about the Dione article. Perhaps you should delve a little deeper rather than issuing a blanket statement simply because you don't find charges of racism "impressive". The fact is that the requirement IS racist, but its deliberately-exclusionary strategy doesn't stop at race. The point is to oppress votes for Democrats. I have posted more than "opinion pieces" to demonstrate this that you refuse to read because you have already formed your position.
Allegations of racism from liberal pundits are a dime a dozen, Dada. It's routine and it's a bore. As for my position, yes, I have formed one. Requiring a photo ID is perfectly reasonable. If some segments of the Democrat voting public are simply too lazy to get them that's their problem. Besides, if that's the case then they probably shouldn't be voting anyway.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:46 PM
They want to make it a more difficult playing field because they think that it is unfair. What they don't realize is that the playing field is perfectly even the way it is. They want to claim it's unfair to make themselves the victims and validate their claims that liberals are getting away with things that they can't get away with themselves. It's sick. If there were a more honest route of promoting their ideals, you'd think they'd take it.
Fairness or unfairness isn't even part of the equation. They want to win. That's it.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:46 PM
More about the voter I.D. requirement. Mister D - please don't read this. LOL
Justice Department Rejects South Carolina Voter ID Law (http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/12/24/justice-department-rejects-south-carolina-voter-id-law/)
By: David Dayen (http://news.firedoglake.com/author/dday/) Saturday December 24, 2011 9:17 am
http://static1.firedoglake.com/common/images/twitter_favicon_2.pngTweet (http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/12/24/justice-department-rejects-south-carolina-voter-id-law/#) http://static1.firedoglake.com/plugins/share-this/images//digg.gif (http://digg.com/submit?phase=2&url=http://fdl.me/t94Zhs&title=Justice+Department+Rejects+South+Carolina+Vo ter+ID+Law) http://static1.firedoglake.com/plugins/share-this/images//stumbleupon.gif (http://www.stumbleupon.com/submit?url=http://fdl.me/t94Zhs&title=Justice+Department+Rejects+South+Carolina+Vo ter+ID+Law)
The Justice Department, under the authority granted to them by Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, rejected a voter ID law (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/12/23/us/AP-US-Voter-ID-South-Carolina.html) from South Carolina, making good on a promise to exercise vigilance on voting rights as we near the 2012 elections.
Per the Voting Rights Act, DoJ must pre-clear changes to election law in nine mostly Southern states, because of past incidents where those states failed to protect the voting rights of minorities. In its ruling, the Justice Department alleged that the voter ID law would make it harder for minorities to cast their ballots, because many lack a current eligible ID card.
The Obama administration said South Carolina’s law didn’t meet the burden under the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which outlawed discriminatory practices preventing blacks from voting. Tens of thousands of minorities in South Carolina might not be able to cast ballots under South Carolina’s law because they don’t have the right photo ID, Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez said [...]
http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/12/24/justice-department-rejects-south-carolina-voter-id-law/
Yes, I'm well aware that this DOJ is a disgrace.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Allegations of racism from liberal pundits are a dime a dozen, Dada. It's routine and it's a bore. As for my position, yes, I have formed one. Requiring a photo ID is perfectly reasonable. If some segments of the Democrat voting public are simply too lazy to get them that's their problem. Besides, if that's the case then they probably shouldn't be voting anyway.
What do you mean, "shouldn't be voting"? Because they're lazy? Really?
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Yes, I'm well aware that this DOJ is a disgrace.
You weren't supposed to read that! :grin:
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Fairness or unfairness isn't even part of the equation. They want to win. That's it.
If what you are saying was true that really would be it but you keep babbling on about racism. Cognitive dissonance?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:48 PM
What do you mean, "shouldn't be voting"? Because they're lazy? Really?
If they couldn't be bothered to get an ID they obviously don't care much about voting. Pffft. Stay home then.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:48 PM
If what you are saying was true that really would be it but you keep babbling on about racism. Cognitive dissonance?
Not at all. Racism is simply a tool by which to gain an advantage. Minorities vote against them. I wonder why that is??
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:49 PM
Allegations of racism from liberal pundits are a dime a dozen, Dada. It's routine and it's a bore. As for my position, yes, I have formed one. Requiring a photo ID is perfectly reasonable. If some segments of the Democrat voting public are simply too lazy to get them that's their problem. Besides, if that's the case then they probably shouldn't be voting anyway.
That's a horrible reason to make a law. I'd still like to know why you believe an ID should be presented when voting.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:49 PM
Then it will be entirely safe to assume that you are just trying to stack the deck (it's a figure of speech) in your favor because you don't want blacks--or any liberal for that matter, to vote. Defend yourself against it, or admit it.
Sorry, I don't have a dog in this race. Secondly, I don't feel obligated to defend myself against spurious charges.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:51 PM
That's a horrible reason to make a law. I'd still like to know why you believe an ID should be presented when voting.
I've presented one since I started voting. I present ID for all sorts of things. The vast majority of Americans do and those lacking one will be able to get one easily. This is a non-issue.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:51 PM
Hey, D. I can do jumping jacks. Since I can, that means everybody else should be able to. In fact, we should make a law that if you can't do 5 jumping jacks in a row, you can't vote.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:52 PM
Not at all. Racism is simply a tool by which to gain an advantage. Minorities vote against them. I wonder why that is??
Racism is a tool to gain an advantage? What? lol
Mister D
03-28-2012, 04:52 PM
Hey, D. I can do jumping jacks. Since I can, that means everybody else should be able to. In fact, we should make a law that if you can't do 5 jumping jacks in a row, you can't vote.
That was inane even for you.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:54 PM
Hey, D. I can do jumping jacks. Since I can, that means everybody else should be able to. In fact, we should make a law that if you can't do 5 jumping jacks in a row, you can't vote.
You know, that's a really good idea. Also, I quit smoking a couple of years ago. I hate the smell of smoke. Especially at the polls. I don't think they should be allowed to vote, do you?
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:54 PM
That was inane even for you.
Come on! It was funny. :)
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:56 PM
Racism is a tool to gain an advantage? What? lol
Do you live under a rock Mister D? What do you think the Voting Rights Act was about? You think this crap is new?
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:56 PM
You know, that's a really good idea. Also, I quit smoking a couple of years ago. I hate the smell of smoke. Especially at the polls. I don't think they should be allowed to vote, do you?
Absolutely NOT! :angry: You're right!
Further more, I think bigots should be discouraged from voting, too. :laugh:
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 04:57 PM
Absolutely NOT! :angry: You're right!
Further more, I think bigots should be discouraged from voting, too. :laugh:
Or at the very least - smoking, out-of-shape bigots...:grin:
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 04:57 PM
Racism is a tool to gain an advantage? What? lol
You bring up race more than most people I know. You liberal, you.
Vilifier of Zombies
03-28-2012, 05:07 PM
Requiring an identification card to register to vote? I dunno, maybe, having an identification card to vote, absolutely. Nothing to do with race or gender or physical abilities or lack thereof.
Imagine if some Democratic politician had announced that demanding a photo ID at the voting booth was an attempt to keep Jewish Americans from voting. No one would understand what the person was talking about. But why not? Jews vote almost as lopsidedly Democrat as do blacks. So why weren't Jews included in liberal objections to voter ID laws?
We all know the answer. Jews are generally considered intelligent and therefore no one would assume that obtaining a photo ID was demanding too much of even poor Jews (yes, there are poor Jews). Therefore, one can only infer that the argument that demanding photo ID for voting will disenfranchise many blacks suggests that many blacks lack the capacity to obtain a photo ID.
If that is not a legitimate inference, then only one other inference is possible: The argument is made solely in order to score political points by portraying black Americans as victims of Republican racism. Of course, that argument simply takes us back to the original question: Why does requiring a photo ID to vote prevent blacks from voting.
It is, however, effective. Calling Republicans racist has worked for half a century and will not be abandoned until it is universally recognized as the libel that it is.
It is difficult to overstate the negative impact making lesser demands on individuals, especially members of select groups, has on them. The message is as clear as day: We expect less of you. Why? Because we think less of you.
Do most of those on the left really think less of black Americans.
Given the lack of demands, given the rationalization for poor speech (before the left took over education, both blacks and whites spoke and wrote far better), given the advocacy of lowering standards for blacks from everything from civil service tests to college admissions and given other examples, it is hard not to conclude that many on the left really do think black Americans are not equally capable of excellence (outside of sports and entertainment). It is what George W. Bush called "the soft bigotry of low expectations."
If this is not the case, there are two other explanations.
One is guilt. White liberals are so filled with guilt over historic American maltreatment of blacks that they have somehow concluded that making the same demands of blacks as of all other Americans is somehow unfair.
The other is political opportunism -- portray liberals and their policies as the saviors of black Americans. Aside from its constituting cynical exploitation, the problem is that in order to portray oneself as another person's savior, one must portray the other as in need of saving.
Conservative Americans, on the other hand, actually believe there is no difference between black and non-black abilities, and therefore see only harm in depicting a substantial percentage of the black population as essentially incapable of obtaining a photo ID.
Which group has more respect for black Americans? The answer is obvious. And one day, most black Americans will know the real answer to that question. That will be the beginning of the final stage of black liberation, as well as the end of the Democratic Party as we now know it.....snip~
http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=b89350ad-4ccb-4394-9653-15ab6d993198&url=accusation_that_voter_id_is_racis t_demeans_blacks
Mainecoons
03-28-2012, 05:17 PM
D might be living under a rock but the voting rights act was hardly about simple voter ID. Looks like we have another history-challenged lefty here.
Look it up genius. It was about poll taxes, special literacy tests directed at minorities, deliberately rigged and complicated registration directed ONLY at minorities or groups that someone wanted to exclude from voting. That's a long way from requiring simple ID from EVERYONE who votes for the equally simple purpose to make sure that you are the voter whose name is on the voter rolls.
BTW, I was around and politically active during that time. I recall the discussions and the exposure of the abuses and targeting of minorities that prompted that legislation. And I supported it just as I support the cashier asking me at the register to show photo ID when I used my credit card to make sure that it is me, and not some imposter, using my credit card.
Similarly, I want the voter registrars to make sure that I am the person on the rolls and not someone being paid by the likes of ACORN or any political party to vote fraudulently in order to win close elections. That is called protecting MY right not to have my vote fraudulently used or stolen. Or diluted by dead people or ACORN registered "voters" by the name of Mickey Mouse.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:18 PM
Good to meet you Vilifier of Zombies. It's just another law conservatives want for a bigger government.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:20 PM
D might be living under a rock but the voting rights act was hardly about simple voter ID. Looks like we have another history-challenged lefty here.
Look it up genius. It was about poll taxes, special literacy tests directed at minorities, deliberately rigged and complicated registration. That's a long way from requiring simple ID from EVERYONE who votes for the equally simple purpose to make sure that you are the voter whose name is on the voter rolls.
BTW, I was around and politically active during that time. I recall the discussions and the exposure of the abuses and targeting of minorities that prompted that legislation. And I supported it just as I support the cashier asking me at the register to show photo ID when I used my credit card to make sure that it is me, and not some imposter, using my credit card.
Similarly, I want the voter registrars to make sure that I am the person on the rolls and not someone being paid by the likes of ACORN or any political party to vote fraudulently in order to win close elections.
Instead of bitching about it and being a thorn in everybody's backside, start your own right-wing ACORN and try enabling your own voter fraud methods. It's already an even playing field, you're just whining.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 05:21 PM
Except that you don't really read him. 'Attack the messenger' is stale. Refute the claims in his article if you want to impress me. ;)
I read most articles that he writes- at least for the last several years. Dione rarely gets anything correct.
Mainecoons
03-28-2012, 05:22 PM
Uh, dooh! Did you not understand what he posted?
having an identification card to vote, absolutely. Nothing to do with race or gender or physical abilities or lack thereof.
Sheesh! Are you swimming in that green beaker full of ignorance?
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 05:22 PM
Good to meet you Vilifier of Zombies. It's just another law conservatives want for a bigger government.
Spunk, everyone has State issued IDs already. States have the authority to issue IDs.
Now if someone advocates for a mandatory federal ID system I would agree with you.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:27 PM
Uh, dooh! Did you not understand what he posted?
Sheesh! Are you swimming in that green beaker full of ignorance?
If you say so. And you're asking for it, aren't you? Quit being a racist ****.
Vilifier of Zombies
03-28-2012, 05:31 PM
Uh, dooh! Did you not understand what he posted?
Sheesh! Are you swimming in that green beaker full of ignorance?
I get what was posted prior, it's a discussion board though, all I did was chime in, put my two cents into the fray.
I wasn't addressing any particular post, just the topic of having identification cards and voting.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:33 PM
I get what was posted prior, it's a discussion board though, all I did was chime in, put my two cents into the fray.
I wasn't addressing any particular post, just the topic of having identification cards and voting.
Mainecoons was talking to me, and being a dumb shit as usual.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:33 PM
Spunk, everyone has State issued IDs already. States have the authority to issue IDs.
Now if someone advocates for a mandatory federal ID system I would agree with you.
Then people don't have much ground in here discussing what every state should be doing. Correct?
Mainecoons
03-28-2012, 05:40 PM
Potty mouth, what is being discussed here is the RIGHT of individual states to require color-blind, transparent and universal voter ID without the unconstitutional interference by the Federal government that the Obama administration is attempting.
What an idiot. You not only didn't understant what Villifier posted, you don't even understand the issue here.
:shocked:
Seems Prager is willing to Take EJ and all his buddies on anytime. Called it like it is!
Mister D
03-28-2012, 05:41 PM
Do you live under a rock Mister D? What do you think the Voting Rights Act was about? You think this crap is new?
Racism is what it is. The scary GOP goons behind the photo ID requirement are either motivated by racism or, as you argued earlier, by the desire to gain an advantage. Choose one. You can't argue both and be consistent.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:41 PM
Potty mouth, what is being discussed here is the RIGHT of individual states to require color-blind, transparent and universal voter ID without the unconstitutional interference by the Federal government that the Obama administration is attempting.
What an idiot. You not only didn't understant what Villifier posted, you don't even understand the issue here.
:shocked:
Stop talking to me, or I'll report you.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 05:42 PM
D might be living under a rock but the voting rights act was hardly about simple voter ID. Looks like we have another history-challenged lefty here.
Look it up genius. It was about poll taxes, special literacy tests directed at minorities, deliberately rigged and complicated registration directed ONLY at minorities or groups that someone wanted to exclude from voting. That's a long way from requiring simple ID from EVERYONE who votes for the equally simple purpose to make sure that you are the voter whose name is on the voter rolls.
BTW, I was around and politically active during that time. I recall the discussions and the exposure of the abuses and targeting of minorities that prompted that legislation. And I supported it just as I support the cashier asking me at the register to show photo ID when I used my credit card to make sure that it is me, and not some imposter, using my credit card.
Similarly, I want the voter registrars to make sure that I am the person on the rolls and not someone being paid by the likes of ACORN or any political party to vote fraudulently in order to win close elections. That is called protecting MY right not to have my vote fraudulently used or stolen. Or diluted by dead people or ACORN registered "voters" by the name of Mickey Mouse.
So far, most of the posts I've read from you are peppered with fallacies, generalizations and insults. Hardly the way to engage me. You hate liberals. I get it. :)
Conley
03-28-2012, 05:42 PM
Stop talking to me, or I'll report you.
Just use the ignore button if you don't want to read someone's posts.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 05:42 PM
You bring up race more than most people I know. You liberal, you.
I bring up race quite often. I don't accuse people of being racists. That's what liberals do. Know anyone like that, Spunky? :grin:
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 05:45 PM
Racism is what it is. The scary GOP goons behind the photo ID requirement are either motivated by racism or, as you argued earlier, by the desire to gain an advantage. Choose one. You can't argue both and be consistent.
Certainly I can. If they weren't racist, then they would draw the line at racist tactics. They're not. See how that works?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 05:48 PM
So the liberal Democrat position is that some segments of their base are simply not going to bother getting a photo ID no matter easy the process is made for them. Democrat turnout will inevitably be depressed by such a requirement. Understood.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 05:48 PM
Then people don't have much ground in here discussing what every state should be doing. Correct?
?? Which state does not have State issued ID cards?
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:48 PM
I bring up race quite often. I don't accuse people of being racists. That's what liberals do. Know anyone like that, Spunky? :grin:
You are a racist. Why do you have a problem with being called what you are?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 05:50 PM
Certainly I can. If they weren't racist, then they would draw the line at racist tactics. They're not. See how that works?
Dada, you're not making sense. What is a racist tactic? Racism is an attitude. It's a belief. The people in question are either motivated by a desire for political advantage or by racism. Choose one.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:51 PM
?? Which state does not have State issued ID cards?
You're asking the wrong question. It should be what states don't require an ID card to vote? Answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws)
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:53 PM
Dada, you're not making sense. What is a racist tactic? Racism is an attitude. It's a belief. The people in question are either motivated by a desire for political advantage or by racism. Choose one.
It's really a non-issue. The playing field is level the way it is, voter ids are not required to make things more fair for you. If you want to, start your own voter fraud methods and see if you can get away with it since you think those evil democrats can.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 05:54 PM
You are a racist. Why do you have a problem with being called what you are?
And you are a depressed and bitter homosexual who couldn't even graduate from a regular high school which have low standards to begin with. So there we are.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:56 PM
And you are a depressed and bitter homosexual who couldn't even graduate from a regular high school which have low standards to begin with. So there we are.
Oops, did I hit a soft spot? :laugh:
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 05:57 PM
You're asking the wrong question. It should be what states don't require an ID card to vote? Answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws)
Well that is sort of the point. The states that don't require IDs to vote are actively facilitating voter fraud.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 05:57 PM
It's really a non-issue. The playing field is level the way it is, voter ids are not required to make things more fair for you. If you want to, start your own voter fraud methods and see if you can get away with it since you think those evil democrats can.
Getting a photo ID really is a non-issue which is why the vast majority of us have one.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 05:58 PM
Oops, did I hit a soft spot? :laugh:
You won't be hitting anything of mine. Sheesh. :shocked:
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 05:59 PM
Well that is sort of the point. The states that don't require IDs to vote are actively facilitating voter fraud.
If what you say is true, then it must also be true that the ones that are requiring ID's to vote are facilitating racism.
It's just as valid of a conclusion as what you are saying.
Mainecoons
03-28-2012, 05:59 PM
So far, most of the posts I've read from you are peppered with fallacies, generalizations and insults. Hardly the way to engage me. You hate liberals. I get it. :)
More ad hom. Here's the dictionary again.
An ad hominem (Latin (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Latin) for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it.[1] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-0) Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as a logical fallacy (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Logical_fallacy)
I have no desire to engage you. Don't flatter yourself.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:00 PM
You won't be hitting anything of mine. Sheesh. :shocked:
In your dreams, fella.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 06:00 PM
Dada, you're not making sense. What is a racist tactic? Racism is an attitude. It's a belief. The people in question are either motivated by a desire for political advantage or by racism. Choose one.
Racism is more than an attitude and belief. It is expressed in myriad destructive acts. Like this 'voter fraud' crap.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 06:02 PM
If what you say is true, then it must also be true that the ones that are requiring ID's to vote are facilitating racism.
It's just as valid of a conclusion as what you are saying.
If only because you think black people are too lazy and irresponsible to obtain a photo ID. Why do you have such a low opinion of blacks?
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 06:04 PM
When I voted for Ron Paul a few weeks ago in the VA primary I was asked for my drivers licence and the old lady asked me what my address was. So I told them.
And then I voted.
Had I not had an ID or had I not been able to tell them my address they would have let me vote anyway, but my ballot would be kept the a separate file. I would have to prove at a later date who I was and that I was entitled to vote in that precinct.
Sounds reasonable to me.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:04 PM
Getting a photo ID really is a non-issue which is why the vast majority of us have one.
K, then what's the problem? Leave it like it is. If you think there's fraud, then it's just like I said. There's no fraud giving advantage to people that you could not take advantage of yourself. Instead of being a sore loser, try getting away with similar tactics and see for yourself if it's so easy.
Nobody has touched that argument yet, I've said it like 7 times. Cat got your tongue or what?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 06:05 PM
Racism is more than an attitude and belief. It is expressed in myriad destructive acts. Like this 'voter fraud' crap.
Racism is a belief entailing the superiority of one group over another. Now you can say the GOP is motivated by its desire for political advantage or by its racist doctrine. When you figure out what your position is I will address it.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:06 PM
If only because you think black people are too lazy and irresponsible to obtain a photo ID. Why do you have such a low opinion of blacks?
You're too lazy and irresponsible to worship me as your supreme leader. SHAME.
Yeah, that's not in the constitution either. But STILL. I require it immediately and you refuse. You must be some kind of fraud.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 06:07 PM
If what you say is true, then it must also be true that the ones that are requiring ID's to vote are facilitating racism.
It's just as valid of a conclusion as what you are saying.
That post doesn't make any sense. I am not sure how to respond.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 06:07 PM
K, then what's the problem? Leave it like it is. If you think there's fraud, then it's just like I said. There's no fraud giving advantage to people that you could not take advantage of yourself. Instead of being a sore loser, try getting away with similar tactics and see for yourself if it's so easy.
Nobody has touched that argument yet, I've said it like 7 times. Cat got your tongue or what?
Spunk, we've been asking what the problem is now for a while. Why not have photo ID requirement like we do for many other less important things? Your objections have ranged from the trivial to the ridiculous. It's perfectly reasonable to require a photo ID.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:08 PM
Racism is a belief entailing the superiority of one group over another. Now you can say the GOP is motivated by its desire for political advantage or by its racist doctrine. When you figure out what your position is I will address it.
Since the republican party harbors bigotry, it's acceptable to say both reasons are fair to assert upon them.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 06:08 PM
If only because you think black people are too lazy and irresponsible to obtain a photo ID. Why do you have such a low opinion of blacks?
It is discrimination to excuse blacks and the poor from having IDs to vote: it is the soft bigotry of low expectations.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:10 PM
Spunk, we've been asking what the problem is now for a while. Why not have photo ID requirement like we do for many other less important things? Your objections have ranged from the trivial to the ridiculous. It's perfectly reasonable to require a photo ID.
Says you.
Here, again. If you think people are getting away with voter fraud, why not do it yourself?
Mister D
03-28-2012, 06:10 PM
It is discrimination to excuse blacks and the poor from having IDs to vote: it is the soft bigotry of low expectations.
The liberal position is a tacit acknowledgment that no matter how easy getting a photo ID may be voter turnout will be depressed in favor of the GOP. That says a lot about the Democrat base.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 06:11 PM
Racism is a belief entailing the superiority of one group over another. Now you can say the GOP is motivated by its desire for political advantage or by its racist doctrine. When you figure out what your position is I will address it.
I can say it is motivated by both. Its racism permeates the GOP platform. Not all Republicans are racists, but they willingly accept bigots in their big tent. They increase their chances of winning that way.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 06:11 PM
Says you.
Here, again. If you think people are getting away with voter fraud, why not do it yourself?
Because it is illegal.
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 06:12 PM
I can say it is motivated by both. Its racism permeates the GOP platform. Not all Republicans are racists, but they willingly accept bigots in their big tent. They increase their chances of winning that way.
Ridiculous.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:12 PM
It is discrimination to excuse blacks and the poor from having IDs to vote: it is the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Nobody's giving them an advantage.
The issue at heart is the suggestion that liberals are unfairly being allowed to commit voter fraud. I ask then, why are liberals so much more capable of such shenanigans?
Are you suggesting that black people and poor people are CRIMINALS? :angry:
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:14 PM
Because it is illegal.
So liberals are more willing to commit voter fraud because they are more likely to be criminals?
Peter1469
03-28-2012, 06:16 PM
Nobody's giving them an advantage.
The issue at heart is the suggestion that liberals are unfairly being allowed to commit voter fraud. I ask then, why are liberals so much more capable of such shenanigans?
Are you suggesting that black people and poor people are CRIMINALS? :angry:
You are claiming that blacks and poor people should be excused from getting IDs because, I guess, they aren't capable of doing it. That is the bigotry of low expectations. Look it up and learn.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:17 PM
You are claiming that blacks and poor people should be excused from getting IDs because, I guess, they aren't capable of doing it. That is the bigotry of low expectations. Look it up and learn.
Incorrect. In its entirety.
I'm saying that ALL PEOPLE should be excused from getting IDs. You've got an imagination.
Mister D
03-28-2012, 06:21 PM
Spunkloaf thinks blacks are lazy and irresponsible but you're a racist.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:27 PM
Spunkloaf thinks blacks are lazy and irresponsible but you're a racist.
I never said that. When did I say that?
K now make sure to avoid this question, too. You can't afford to lose any more dignity today.
Vilifier of Zombies
03-28-2012, 06:34 PM
Incorrect. In its entirety.
I'm saying that ALL PEOPLE should be excused from getting IDs. You've got an imagination.
In this day and age that's probably not the best idea...
You go to school, you get an identification card, most places of employment these days, you get an identification card, go to a bar and order a beer, you have to have an identification card. In order for me to get home, I have to present an identification card to go through a gate guarded by armed guards, I wouldn't win an argument claiming that it's racist if I didn't have one to show proof of who I was.
To cast a vote in most states you have to have an identification card. I would think that it's the state's prerogative whether or not to require an identification card to register to vote, which shouldn't be a problem in most circumstances if an individual is gonna have to show his or her identification card anyways to cast a vote.
Are there some instances where the requiring of having an identification card to register to vote would be problematic? I would say yes, there are some, but not because of race, instead it'd be more extenuating, like certain orders of nuns who don't get out much or have a now of silence to uphold or of the like.
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:41 PM
In this day and age that's probably not the best idea...
You go to school, you get an identification card, most places of employment these days, you get an identification card, go to a bar and order a beer, you have to have an identification card. In order for me to get home, I have to present an identification card to go through a gate guarded by armed guards, I wouldn't win an argument claiming that it's racist if I didn't have one to show proof of who I was.
To cast a vote in most states you have to have an identification card. I would think that it's the state's prerogative whether or not to require an identification card to register to vote, which shouldn't be a problem in most circumstances if an individual is gonna have to show his or her identification card anyways to cast a vote.
Are there some instances where the requiring of having an identification card to register to vote would be problematic? I would say yes, there are some, but not because of race, instead it'd be more extenuating, like certain orders of nuns who don't get out much or have a now of silence to uphold or of the like.
Thanks for being one of the only people who actually offer a valid argument. I don't disagree with you on the necessity of IDs. I agree it's not an issue of race. There are those who secretly want to weed out liberal voters who might not be able to get an ID as readily as others.
Conley
03-28-2012, 06:44 PM
I also agree that this is a state issue.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 06:45 PM
Thanks for being one of the only people who actually offer a valid argument. I don't disagree with you on the necessity of IDs. I agree it's not an issue of race. There are those who secretly want to weed out liberal voters who might not be able to get an ID as readily as others.
I totally agree with that, too, Spunkloaf. However, race IS a factor and has been for decades. The fact that the line isn't drawn at this tactic is what makes it racist. Do you agree with that?
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:46 PM
Yep. Pretty much just 25 pages of nonsense we're in right here. :laugh: Not sure why somebody had to bring up the racist thing in regards to voting, just because they saw somebody else do it?
spunkloaf
03-28-2012, 06:47 PM
I totally agree with that, too, Spunkloaf. However, race IS a factor and has been for decades. The fact that the line isn't drawn at this tactic is what makes it racist. Do you agree with that?
I want to agree with you, but the whole racist thing is just a trap. Liberals can't "use the race card."
It's sick how everybody else gets away with talking about race though.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 06:48 PM
Yep. Pretty much just 25 pages of nonsense we're in right here. :laugh: Not sure why somebody had to bring up the racist thing in regards to voting, just because they saw somebody else do it?
Sometimes it takes 25 pages to get some clarity and understanding. This is a volatile issue and the race factor is like pouring gasoline on it and lighting a match. I guess I brought the matches. :(
Vilifier of Zombies
03-28-2012, 06:49 PM
Thanks for being one of the only people who actually offer a valid argument. I don't disagree with you on the necessity of IDs. I agree it's not an issue of race. There are those who secretly want to weed out liberal voters who might not be able to get an ID as readily as others.
I would think they're far and few between [those who secretly want to weed out liberal voters due to race], I would think out of state students voting in local elections when they're supposed to be voting absentee ballot would more of a problem than whether or not someone who's black or green or blue or whatever has an identification card though.
If I were a politician running for local office in a college town/city, and I were running on a GOP ticket, that would be something I would definitely want to keep in check.
dadakarma
03-28-2012, 06:51 PM
I want to agree with you, but the whole racist thing is just a trap. Liberals can't "use the race card."
It's sick how everybody else gets away with talking about race though.
Nonsense, spunk! It's not a 'trap'. It's a GAME. It's called, 'frame the discussion with talking points.' Haven't you heard? If you call out racism, you're "playing the race card." And did you know that the racism charge is so overused it's now "meaningless"?
The only people I have ever heard - EVER - scoff at a legitimate charge of racism were bigots.
Don't fall for that crap. It is designed to shut you down. Speak LOUDER when that button is pushed. LOUDER.
Conley
03-28-2012, 06:52 PM
Both parties - D and R - are going to push their agenda. If Republicans push an agenda that limits Democrat votes, and more minorities vote Democrat, to me that's not an example of racism. It's simply a matter of a party promoting their agenda.
Vilifier of Zombies
03-28-2012, 06:57 PM
Both parties - D and R - are going to push their agenda. If Republicans push an agenda that limits Democrat votes, and more minorities vote Democrat, to me that's not an example of racism. It's simply a matter of a party promoting their agenda.
It does work both ways...I recall someone registering Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck as lifelong Democrats in the last Presidential election.
Each campaign is going to shuck and jive to their own best interests, not the citizen's or population's best interest, certainly not their opponents.
I tend to think the worst from either during the election season.
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