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Cigar
04-28-2014, 12:28 PM
Donald Sterling’s racial views are worse than Cliven Bundy’s, yet some on the right defend the racist billionaire


Chief Justice John Roberts has to wonder if the universe is talking back to him after the Supreme Court last week struck down affirmative action in Michigan, relying on his fatuous 2007 declaration that “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” Just to prove racism is still with us, we had Cliven Bundy pop off about lazy black people being better off under slavery, and (even worse in my opinion) the filthy-rich owner of an NBA team berating his black girlfriend on tape for bringing black people to his basketball games, where mostly black players make him even wealthier several times a week.

Bundy, 67, is a hardscrabble rancher who’d never have had a public platform without wealthy hucksters at Fox News. The 80-year-old Donald Sterling, by contrast, owns a basketball team valued at over $500 million and a real estate empire where he’s had to settle for millions of dollars in race discrimination cases. He’s given money to politicians (mostly Democrats, the right will have you know) and was about to receive a poorly timed award from the NAACP.

It’s just another episode of “Angry Old White Men Gone Wild,” but the two men’s sins aren’t the same. Racism wasn’t entirely shocking coming from the not-too-sharp Nevada cattleman who seems to have marinated in the paranoid anti-government thinking that’s taken hold in marginal white communities. Its crude expression was much more disturbing coming from the powerful, wealthy Sterling.

But there’s more than simple anti-black racism linking the views of Bundy and Sterling. They share an ignorant, self-serving paternalism.

more
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/28/donald_sterling_and_cliven_bundys_ignorant_paterna lism_angry_old_white_men_gone_wild_again/

:rofl:

Peter1469
04-28-2014, 12:34 PM
Get me on your special email list for the talking points. Please.

You really need to stop.....

The Xl
04-28-2014, 12:35 PM
I have a feeling that if a black man, old or otherwise did something, and the label "angry (old) black men" was thrown out there, generalizing a group of people, that it wouldn't fly.

MrJimmyDale
04-28-2014, 12:36 PM
As opposed to an angry old black man..........going wild on tPF

The Xl
04-28-2014, 12:36 PM
Get me on your special email list for the talking points. Please.

You really need to stop.....

He's a dumb racist with a lot of time on his hands.

Don't take away the one thing that gives him joy, that gives him a purpose.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2014, 12:36 PM
As opposed to an angry old black man..........going wild on tPF

Isn't the irony delicious?

Cigar
04-28-2014, 12:39 PM
As opposed to an angry old black man..........going wild on tPF

Find the The Angry Old Black Man :laugh:

MrJimmyDale
04-28-2014, 12:40 PM
There he is!!!!

The Xl
04-28-2014, 12:40 PM
Find the The Angry Old Black Man :laugh:

Do you have a mirror?

He may be easier to find then you think.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2014, 12:41 PM
Find the The Angry Old Black Man :laugh:

"An angry old black man"

Take the first letter of each word in that sentence, un-mix them up and what does it spell?

Ravi
04-28-2014, 12:41 PM
Comparing the situation of Sterling’s players — talented, wealthy athletes with agents and contracts – to slavery is silly. Still, a twisted and racist paternalism links Cliven Bundy’s slavery rant (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-comments_n_5208399.html?utm_hp_ref=politics) with Sterling’s talk about his players. “I give them food, and clothes, and cars, and houses” is only a few bad leaps of logic away from slavery being good for black people because it gave them “homes with their chickens and their gardens and their children around them, and their man having something to do.” In both cases, black people are simple, passive, and not entirely capable of caring for themselves. They should be grateful for the good will of the men who exploit their labor and accept their position at the bottom of society, because they’re not meant for more than that.^Not a bad point.

Chris
04-28-2014, 12:48 PM
I have a feeling that if a black man, old or otherwise did something, and the label "angry (old) black men" was thrown out there, generalizing a group of people, that it wouldn't fly.



It'd be called racist.

peoshi
04-28-2014, 01:07 PM
"An angry old black man"

Take the first letter of each word in that sentence, un-mix them up and what does it spell?Don't do that...you know cigar can't spell.

MrJimmyDale
04-28-2014, 01:28 PM
Don't do that...you know cigar can't spell. He'll come out with some weird eubonics word that nobody else knows

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 01:41 PM
I think there is a world of difference between what Sterling and Bundy said. I think Sterling's comments were actually racist, for starters, whereas Bundy was simply opining on race in way that was not politically correct. When people on the left throw around the label so frivolously, they diminish actual examples of racism by crying wolf.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 01:44 PM
I think there is a world of difference between what Sterling and Bundy said. I think Sterling's comments were actually racist, for starters, whereas Bundy was simply opining on race in way that was not politically correct. When people on the left throw around the label so frivolously, they diminish actual examples of racism by crying wolf.Suggesting that black people are better off as slaves is simply just politically incorrect?

MrJimmyDale
04-28-2014, 01:46 PM
Suggesting that black people are better off as slaves is simply just politically incorrect? also inaccurate

Ravi
04-28-2014, 01:54 PM
also inaccurate
What's the PC term for enslaving blacks?

Mister D
04-28-2014, 01:55 PM
What's the PC term for enslaving blacks?

Basketball, apparently.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 01:59 PM
Basketball, apparently.
Nope. The correct answer is GOP Platform.

Matty
04-28-2014, 02:03 PM
Suggesting that black people are better off as slaves is simply just politically incorrect?
Tell me something true! Are you as outraged at black racists? Or is it just white people who offend you? I think white people offend you by their mere existence!

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:06 PM
Tell me something true! Are you as outraged at black racists? Or is it just white people who offend you? I think white people offend you by their mere existence!Show me some comparable examples.

nic34
04-28-2014, 02:06 PM
Suggesting that black people are better off as slaves is simply just politically incorrect?

Bundy was just opining on race.... what's the harm? :shocked:

Matty
04-28-2014, 02:07 PM
Show me some comparable examples.
Go get a bellyful at m s n b c.

npp app some white people gots to die, they babies gots to die, we gotta kill us some white peoples



hell Cliven Bundy didn't come anywhere close to that did he? All he did was talk about picking cotton.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 02:08 PM
Suggesting that black people are better off as slaves is simply just politically incorrect?

Like all things, it depends on the individual black person. Obviously, someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson would not be better off as a slave, but some faceless black man rotting away in prison for the rest of their life because they sold drugs might be. If you read the interviews of actual slaves conducted by the WPA in 1936, you will see that some former slaves actually had relatively happy lives.

“I liked being a slave, our white folks . . . were good to us. . . . I had rather be a slave. . . . . I wish I wuz still in slavery.”
Adam Smith (b. 1839)
Tate County, Mississippi

“I’s heard dat some white folks wuz mean to der niggers, but our Old Masta and Miss wasn’t.”
Minerva Evans (b. 1840s)
Harrison County, Mississippi

“[Sharecropping] wuzn’t much diffent from slavery. We lived in quarters, used de white folks horses en ploughs en helped raise our own food. We just change a marster for a boss.”
James Lucas (b. 1833)
Adams County, Mississippi

“My white folks was good to me. I had a heep better time when I growed up than folks does now. . . . Shucks I was a heep better off.”
Rube Montgomery (b. 1861?)
Choctaw County, Mississippi

http://mshistorynow.mdah.state.ms.us/articles/64/wpa-slave-narratives

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 02:09 PM
Bundy was just opining on race.... what's the harm? :shocked:

Tell me, how many black men are rotting away in prison or poverty right now? How is being a slave to the prison system any different or any worse than being a slave to a southern planter? I'd really like to know.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:09 PM
Bundy was just opining on race.... what's the harm? :shocked:I think I finally figured out what the word racialist means. It's not the same as racist because the racialist doesn't feel superior to another race, they simply fear and/or hate the other race.

Maybe.

These damn PC terms are so confusing!

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:11 PM
Go get a bellyful at m s n b c.

npp app some white people gots to die, they babies gots to die, we gotta kill us some white peoples



hell Cliven Bundy didn't come anywhere close to that did he? All he did was talk about picking cotton.
If you're talking about the New Black Panthers, they are racist shits.

Funny they are comparable to Sterling in your mind.

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:12 PM
Get me on your special email list for the talking points. Please.

You really need to stop.....

Can you stand to read a daily dose of crap just like that crap?

I once subscribed to media matters but did not open much of their trash talking.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:13 PM
Like all things, it depends on the individual black person. Obviously, someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson would not be better off as a slave, but some faceless black man rotting away in prison for the rest of their life because they sold drugs might be. If you read the interviews of actual slaves conducted by the WPA in 1936, you will see that some former slaves actually had relatively happy lives.

“I liked being a slave, our white folks . . . were good to us. . . . I had rather be a slave. . . . . I wish I wuz still in slavery.”
Adam Smith (b. 1839)
Tate County, Mississippi

“I’s heard dat some white folks wuz mean to der niggers, but our Old Masta and Miss wasn’t.”
Minerva Evans (b. 1840s)
Harrison County, Mississippi

“[Sharecropping] wuzn’t much diffent from slavery. We lived in quarters, used de white folks horses en ploughs en helped raise our own food. We just change a marster for a boss.”
James Lucas (b. 1833)
Adams County, Mississippi

“My white folks was good to me. I had a heep better time when I growed up than folks does now. . . . Shucks I was a heep better off.”
Rube Montgomery (b. 1861?)
Choctaw County, Mississippi

http://mshistorynow.mdah.state.ms.us/articles/64/wpa-slave-narratives
Please.

Matty
04-28-2014, 02:14 PM
If you're talking about the New Black Panthers, they are racist shits.

Funny they are comparable to Sterling in your mind.
Why is it funny?

Mister D
04-28-2014, 02:16 PM
I think I finally figured out what the word racialist means. It's not the same as racist because the racialist doesn't feel superior to another race, they simply fear and/or hate the other race.

Maybe.

These damn PC terms are so confusing!

Words do seem awfully confusing to you, Ravi. You don't seem to understasnd what politically correct means either. No worries. :smiley:

nic34
04-28-2014, 02:16 PM
Tell me, how many black men are rotting away in prison or poverty right now? How is being a slave to the prison system any different or any worse than being a slave to a southern planter? I'd really like to know.

Blacks are going to be discriminated against by the white majority anyway and get the brunt of the white majority laws, so it would be better for them that they remained slaves.

Got ya.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 02:17 PM
Please.

Please, what? These are actual slaves telling their stories, not some self-righteous white woman taking umbrage on their behalf. You explain to me how their lives were worse than the hundreds of thousands of black men rotting in prison as we speak, or wasting away in some decrepit housing project in a crime-ridden hellhole like Detroit.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 02:17 PM
Blacks are going to be discriminated against by the white majority anyway and get the brunt of the white majority laws, so it would be better for them that they remained slaves.

Got ya.

You didn't answer his question, nic. How many black men are rotting away in prison or poverty right now? How is being a slave to the prison system any different or any worse than being a slave to a southern planter?

Mister D
04-28-2014, 02:18 PM
Please, what? These are actual slaves telling their stories, not some self-righteous white woman taking umbrage on their behalf. You explain to me how their lives were worse than the hundreds of thousands of black men rotting in prison as we speak, or wasting away in some decrepit housing project in a crime-ridden hellhole like Detroit.

Yes, Ravi doesn't quite seem to grasp how paternalistic her attitudes are.

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:18 PM
Comparing the situation of Sterling’s players — talented, wealthy athletes with agents and contracts – to slavery is silly. Still, a twisted and racist paternalism links Cliven Bundy’s slavery rant (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-comments_n_5208399.html?utm_hp_ref=politics) with Sterling’s talk about his players. “I give them food, and clothes, and cars, and houses” is only a few bad leaps of logic away from slavery being good for black people because it gave them “homes with their chickens and their gardens and their children around them, and their man having something to do.” In both cases, black people are simple, passive, and not entirely capable of caring for themselves. They should be grateful for the good will of the men who exploit their labor and accept their position at the bottom of society, because they’re not meant for more than that.


^Not a bad point.

Oh knock this crap off.

Not one of you, not even in your wildest imagination were ever a slave.

For Negros, they love it when whites bring this up. It gives them a platform to cry and pretend they used to be slaves. Grow up. Your momma was no slave. Daddy was no slave. I would be pleased if most blacks can actually name who their daddy was.

For whites, this presents no problem with the vast majority of us. We know who our daddy was.

peoshi
04-28-2014, 02:19 PM
If you're talking about the New Black Panthers, they are racist shits.

Funny they are comparable to Sterling in your mind.You're right, they are not comparable.

It is funny that you think death threats toward whites and standing at the entrance of voting booths with billy clubs are meaningless compared to the words of one old man.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2014, 02:20 PM
http://www.delawareliberal.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/angrywhiteguys.jpg

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 02:20 PM
Blacks are going to be discriminated against by the white majority anyway and get the brunt of the white majority laws, so it would be better for them that they remained slaves.

Got ya.

So instead of attempting to answer my question in an intellectually honest manner, you misrepresent my position and stick your head in the sand.

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:21 PM
Don't do that...you know cigar can't spell.

Cigar

Something being sucked on one end yet blowing smoke out the other end. And hot air.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2014, 02:21 PM
So instead of attempting to answer my question in an intellectually honest manner, you misrepresent my position and stick your head in the sand.

nic's not the only one using that tactic.

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:25 PM
I think there is a world of difference between what Sterling and Bundy said. I think Sterling's comments were actually racist, for starters, whereas Bundy was simply opining on race in way that was not politically correct. When people on the left throw around the label so frivolously, they diminish actual examples of racism by crying wolf.

Today, the media, at least ABC TV is finally leaking the rest of the Sterling story.

For openers, the woman leaking that is charged with embezzling 1.3 million dollars from the Sterling family.
Second, she baited the man. She kept bringing up race.
Third, she recorded the man.

And none on the left will claim she trapped the man?

ABC is finally letting out more of the story where the elements of truth can be examined.

Bundy is no racist. If discussing slavery makes you racist, my teachers were racists.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:27 PM
Please, what? These are actual slaves telling their stories, not some self-righteous white woman taking umbrage on their behalf. You explain to me how their lives were worse than the hundreds of thousands of black men rotting in prison as we speak, or wasting away in some decrepit housing project in a crime-ridden hellhole like Detroit.You found a few quotes from people that were probably slaves all their lives and now for some reason were not and doing badly.

Don't you think if they had never been slaves they would have never have been in the position to fail at being free? You've used a really ridiculous point to justify slavery.

MrJimmyDale
04-28-2014, 02:28 PM
This will go away once the Clippers are out of the playoffs

Matty
04-28-2014, 02:28 PM
So instead of attempting to answer my question in an intellectually honest manner, you misrepresent my position and stick your head in the sand.
That's not where he put his head mam!

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:29 PM
You're right, they are not comparable.

It is funny that you think death threats toward whites and standing at the entrance of voting booths with billy clubs are meaningless compared to the words of one old man.
There were no death threats in front of the polling place but I do believe the NBPs are racist shits. And no I don't think what you've posted. I think the old man is a foolish bigot that deserves ridicule.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2014, 02:29 PM
This will go away once the Clippers are out of the playoffs

Money shot!

1751_Texan
04-28-2014, 02:30 PM
"an angry old black man"

take the first letter of each word in that sentence, un-mix them up and what does it spell?

b a r r y ?

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 02:31 PM
I think I finally figured out what the word racialist means. It's not the same as racist because the racialist doesn't feel superior to another race, they simply fear and/or hate the other race.

Maybe.

These damn PC terms are so confusing!

Are you accusing me of hating or fearing other races?

Matty
04-28-2014, 02:31 PM
There were no death threats in front of the polling place but I do believe the NBBs are racist shits. And no I don't think what you've posted. I think the old man is a foolish bigot that deserves ridicule.
Let's ridicule Shirley Jackson Lee, she hopes all Republicans go straight to hell!

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:31 PM
This will go away once the Clippers are out of the playoffsI doubt it. If they lose, the perception will be that they were demoralized by the owner.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2014, 02:31 PM
b a r r y ?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Orfj-DdB1A8/TK3-nyPkhHI/AAAAAAAAANA/J67a7NLdVN0/s640/Bill%2BEngvall%2BHere%27s%2BYour%2BSign.jpg

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:32 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Ethereal http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592214#post592214)
I think there is a world of difference between what Sterling and Bundy said. I think Sterling's comments were actually racist, for starters, whereas Bundy was simply opining on race in way that was not politically correct. When people on the left throw around the label so frivolously, they diminish actual examples of racism by crying wolf.


Suggesting that black people are better off as slaves is simply just politically incorrect?

Who are you claiming did that? Don't try to say it was Bundy. And Sterling never mentioned slaves.

Why is this a favorite topic and tactic by the left?

This crap got old by 1865.

Bundy feels like more a slave than free is what he was talking about.

Sterling was recorded by a woman he sued.

And you don't question what she did? She baited him. Now that ABC released more than the other networks had, it comes out she kept race baiting the old man.

It is private conversation and for her to use it to smear him is repulsive.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:32 PM
Are you accusing me of hating or fearing other races?No. I wasn't thinking of you when I posted that.

Perianne
04-28-2014, 02:33 PM
Today, the media, at least ABC TV is finally leaking the rest of the Sterling story.

For openers, the woman leaking that is charged with embezzling 1.3 million dollars from the Sterling family.
Second, she baited the man. She kept bringing up race.
Third, she recorded the man.


She is a trashy slut.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:33 PM
Let's ridicule Shirley Jackson Lee, she hopes all Republicans go straight to hell!Is that racist? If so, it looks like you are claiming all Republicans are white. Smooth move there, Willow.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:34 PM
Who are you claiming did that? Don't try to say it was Bundy. And Sterling never mentioned slaves.

Why is this a favorite topic and tactic by the left?

This crap got old by 1865.

Bundy feels like more a slave than free is what he was talking about.

Sterling was recorded by a woman he sued.

And you don't question what she did? She baited him. Now that ABC released more than the other networks had, it comes out she kept race baiting the old man.

It is private conversation and for her to use it to smear him is repulsive.
What?

nic34
04-28-2014, 02:34 PM
So instead of attempting to answer my question in an intellectually honest manner, you misrepresent my position and stick your head in the sand.

It's not even an honest question.... hey black guy.... would you like to work the rest of your life for me or go to prison and break rocks? BTW, you aren't allowed to marry and you can never see your family because we're sellin' them off...

Please. How about this: quit the racial profiling and let's see if I can stay out of the white man's prison and make something of my life.

....as for your position, you have no idea what it's like to be a black man in the US today OR 150 years ago so how can you even "opine" how they would feel?

Matty
04-28-2014, 02:36 PM
Is that racist? If so, it looks like you are claiming all Republicans are white. Smooth move there, Willow.
That's not my claim. That's the lefts claim in an effort to demonize whites. How damn racist.

Kalkin
04-28-2014, 02:36 PM
Donald Sterling’s racial views are worse than Cliven Bundy’s, yet some on the right defend the racist billionaire


Chief Justice John Roberts has to wonder if the universe is talking back to him after the Supreme Court last week struck down affirmative action in Michigan, relying on his fatuous 2007 declaration that “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” Just to prove racism is still with us, we had Cliven Bundy pop off about lazy black people being better off under slavery, and (even worse in my opinion) the filthy-rich owner of an NBA team berating his black girlfriend on tape for bringing black people to his basketball games, where mostly black players make him even wealthier several times a week.

Bundy, 67, is a hardscrabble rancher who’d never have had a public platform without wealthy hucksters at Fox News. The 80-year-old Donald Sterling, by contrast, owns a basketball team valued at over $500 million and a real estate empire where he’s had to settle for millions of dollars in race discrimination cases. He’s given money to politicians (mostly Democrats, the right will have you know) and was about to receive a poorly timed award from the NAACP.

It’s just another episode of “Angry Old White Men Gone Wild,” but the two men’s sins aren’t the same. Racism wasn’t entirely shocking coming from the not-too-sharp Nevada cattleman who seems to have marinated in the paranoid anti-government thinking that’s taken hold in marginal white communities. Its crude expression was much more disturbing coming from the powerful, wealthy Sterling.

But there’s more than simple anti-black racism linking the views of Bundy and Sterling. They share an ignorant, self-serving paternalism.

more
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/28/donald_sterling_and_cliven_bundys_ignorant_paterna lism_angry_old_white_men_gone_wild_again/

:rofl:
Who kills the most black men? Angry black men? Mow your own lawn.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 02:36 PM
You found a few quotes from people that were probably slaves all their lives and now for some reason were not and doing badly.

Don't you think if they had never been slaves they would have never have been in the position to fail at being free? You've used a really ridiculous point to justify slavery.

No is trying to justify slavery, Ravi. lol Can you answer his question?

Mister D
04-28-2014, 02:38 PM
It's not even an honest question.... hey black guy.... would you like to work the rest of your life for me or go to prison and break rocks? BTW, you aren't allowed to marry and you can never see your family because we're sellin' them off...

Please. How about this: quit the racial profiling and let's see if I can stay out of the white man's prison and make something of my life.

....as for your position, you have no idea what it's like to be a black man in the US today OR 150 years ago so how can you even "opine" how they would feel?

Sigh...let's try this again.

How many black men are rotting away in prison or poverty right now? How is being a slave to the prison system any different or any worse than being a slave to a southern planter?

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:38 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MrJimmyDale http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592293#post592293)
This will go away once the Clippers are out of the playoffs



I doubt it. If they lose, the perception will be that they were demoralized by the owner.

The Clippers team does not go down easily. I am a long time Warriors fan. I am kind of proud I spent weeks and weeks working on that very Oracle Stadium as well as the stadium of the Raiders. Both are on the same property.

The Warriors are missing a big man. And he won't be back. Curry may carry them a lot more. I hope so.

Now that more has come out on the story, we learn she recorded him intending to bait him on race and use it to deflect the fact she is sued by Sterling. Sterling lavished this part negro woman with very expensive autos that she no doubt wanted. Ferrari, Bentley, all paid for by Sterling just so she can pull this on the man.

Were he the racist she claims he is, why was he having sex with a negro woman? And spending millions of dollars on the woman? As the story dribbles out, she won't look as good as you left wingers claim she looks.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 02:39 PM
Who kills the most black men? Angry black men? Mow your own lawn.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/1C67Z/you-did-not-just-go-there/image.png

peoshi
04-28-2014, 02:39 PM
There were no death threats in front of the polling place but I do believe the NBPs are racist shits. And no I don't think what you've posted. I think the old man is a foolish bigot that deserves ridicule.Are you saying they haven't threatened whites with death,Ravi?

The only slaves in the US are slaves to the government, and not all of them are black.

So as long as they did not threaten to kill anyone then standing there wielding clubs without consequence is ok to you?

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:40 PM
That's not my claim. That's the lefts claim in an effort to demonize whites. How damn racist.
I take it you failed to find anything comparable then.

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:41 PM
Suggesting that black people are better off as slaves is simply just politically incorrect?

Some here who are highly educated on history will more than likely explain to you that for sheer numbers, whites have spent more time in slavery and more were slaves than the negro's have been.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 02:41 PM
Are you saying they haven't threatened whites with death,Ravi?

The only slaves in the US are slaves to the government, and not all of them are black.

So as long as they did not threaten to kill anyone then standing there wielding clubs without consequence is ok to you?

Why am I talking to you again? As far as I can see, you make things up.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 02:42 PM
You found a few quotes from people that were probably slaves all their lives and now for some reason were not and doing badly.

That's just your self-serving interpretation of what they said.


Don't you think if they had never been slaves they would have never have been in the position to fail at being free?

I'm not going to engage in speculation, or entertain your biased interpretation of their narratives. I am going to insist that you explain how their lives were any worse than the hundreds of thousands of black men rotting away in prison as we speak. What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?


You've used a really ridiculous point to justify slavery.

Now you are just lying.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 02:43 PM
How about it nic34 ? Ravi ?

peoshi
04-28-2014, 02:44 PM
Is that racist? If so, it looks like you are claiming all Republicans are white. Smooth move there, Willow.Oh please...anyone who disagrees with a black man is racist to you so I don't think you have any idea what racism is...you're just another cigar with better spelling.

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:47 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Ravi http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592299#post592299)
There were no death threats in front of the polling place but I do believe the NBPs are racist shits. And no I don't think what you've posted. I think the old man is a foolish bigot that deserves ridicule.


Are you saying they haven't threatened whites with death,Ravi?

The only slaves in the US are slaves to the government, and not all of them are black.

So as long as they did not threaten to kill anyone then standing there wielding clubs without consequence is ok to you?

Those were also thugs from the SEIU union that brandished weapons to intimidate white voters away from the polling place. Yet Holder more than forgave them, he refused to prosecute.

As much as a gun is a threat, in the hands of an angry person, those clubs were threats. It still pisses me off that because they were Negros, they got away with it. Democrats are supposedly in favor of voting. I suppose being white is a disqualification to them. Rather odd of them.

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:49 PM
What's the PC term for enslaving blacks?

Well since they are kings of committing crimes, how about prisoners of Government?

peoshi
04-28-2014, 02:51 PM
Why am I talking to you again? As far as I can see, you make things up.What did I make up,Ravi?

I could care less what one insignificant man said in private, I would be more concerned with armed gangs patrolling voting booths without any action being taken by the government.

Bob
04-28-2014, 02:51 PM
Nope. The correct answer is GOP Platform.

The most intellectual Negros are on that platform.

Sucks doesn't it?

peoshi
04-28-2014, 02:53 PM
b a r r y ? Close... O B A M A

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 03:04 PM
It's not even an honest question.... hey black guy.... would you like to work the rest of your life for me or go to prison and break rocks?

It's a hypothetical scenario that has direct relevance to the inquiry made by Bundy, i.e., are black people better off under slavery than they are now? I stipulated that clearly this does not apply to ALL black people, for example, Neil deGrasse Tyson, a well-respected physicist, but for SOME black people, it's not immediately apparent if they would have been better off. You are just being evasive because you don't want to answer hard questions about racial politics.


BTW, you aren't allowed to marry and you can never see your family because we're sellin' them off...

When I growed up I married Exter Durham. He belonged to Marse Snipes Durham who had de plantation 'cross de county line in Orange County. We had a big weddin'. We was married on de front po'ch of de big house. Marse George killed a shoat an' Mis' Betsy had Georgianna, de cook, to bake a big weddin' cake all iced up white as snow wid a bride an' groom standin' in de middle holdin' han's. De table was set out in de yard under de trees, an' you ain't never seed de like of eats. All de niggers come to de feas' an' Marse George had a for everybody.

Dat was some weddin'. I had on a white dress, white shoes an' long while gloves dat come to my elbow, an' Mis' Betsy done made me a weddin' veil out of a white net window curtain. When she played de weddin' ma'ch on de piano, me an' Exter ma'ched down de walk an' up on de po'ch to de altar Mis' Betsy done fixed. Dat de pretties' altar I ever seed. Back 'gainst de rose vine dat was full or red roses, Mis' Betsy done put tables filled wid flowers an' white candles. She spread down a bed sheet, a sho nuff linen sheet, for us to stan' on, an' dey was a white pillow to kneel down on. Exter done made me a weddin' ring. He made it out of a big red button wid his pocket knife. He done cut it so roun' an' polished it so smooth dat it looked like a red satin ribbon tide 'roun' my finger. Dat sho was a pretty ring. I wore it 'bout fifty years, den it got so thin dat I lost it one day in de wash tub when I was washin' clothes.

Uncle Edmond Kirby married us. He was de nigger preacher dat preached at de plantation church. After Uncle Edmond said de las' words over me an' Exter, Marse George got to have his little fun: He say, 'Come on, Exter, you an' Tempie got to jump over de broom stick backwards; you got to do dat to see which one gwine be boss of your househol'.' Everybody come stan' 'roun to watch. Marse George hold de broom 'bout a foot high off de floor. De one dat jump over it backwards an' never touch de handle, gwine boss de house, an' if bof of dem jump over widout touchin' it, dey won't gwine be no bossin', dey jus'gwine be 'genial. I jumped fus', an' you ought to seed me. I sailed right over dat broom stick same as a cricket, but when Exter jump he done had a big dram an' his feets was so big an' clumsy dat dey got all tangled up in dat broom an' he fell head long. Marse George he laugh an' laugh, an' tole Exter he gwine be bossed 'twell he skeered to speak less'n I tole him to speak.

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/wpa/durham1.html

Sounds like a wedding to me.


Please. How about this: quit the racial profiling and let's see if I can stay out of the white man's prison and make something of my life.

If I were the emperor of America, I would pardon every non-violent offender locked away in prison, and legalize drugs, gambling, and prostitution, but that has no relevance to the contention pertaining to Bundy's inquiry.


....as for your position, you have no idea what it's like to be a black man in the US today OR 150 years ago so how can you even "opine" how they would feel?

I have SOME idea based upon contemporary and historical evidence, both of which you are ignoring or dismissing because you refuse to question your racial and political dogma. You are scared to even try to answer the simple and fair question of whether or not some black people would be better off on a southern plantation than in a northern jail because it would force you to reexamine your dogmatic beliefs.

Chris
04-28-2014, 03:05 PM
It's not even an honest question.... hey black guy.... would you like to work the rest of your life for me or go to prison and break rocks? BTW, you aren't allowed to marry and you can never see your family because we're sellin' them off...

Please. How about this: quit the racial profiling and let's see if I can stay out of the white man's prison and make something of my life.

....as for your position, you have no idea what it's like to be a black man in the US today OR 150 years ago so how can you even "opine" how they would feel?



I think, nic, you just got it, you're just not aware of it yet.

Bob
04-28-2014, 03:09 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Ravi http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592220#post592220)
Suggesting that black people are better off as slaves is simply just politically incorrect?


Tell me something true! Are you as outraged at black racists? Or is it just white people who offend you? I think white people offend you by their mere existence!

Military EM are slaves and to a lesser degree so are the officers.

It is a top down system where the man on the top orders those below who due to penalty of punishment swear to obey. The oath is no option.

Peter1469
04-28-2014, 03:13 PM
Military EM are slaves and to a lesser degree so are the officers.

It is a top down system where the man on the top orders those below who due to penalty of punishment swear to obey. The oath is no option.
Tell me about it!

Montoya
04-28-2014, 03:14 PM
Donald Sterling’s racial views are worse than Cliven Bundy’s, yet some on the right defend the racist billionaire


Chief Justice John Roberts has to wonder if the universe is talking back to him after the Supreme Court last week struck down affirmative action in Michigan, relying on his fatuous 2007 declaration that “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” Just to prove racism is still with us, we had Cliven Bundy pop off about lazy black people being better off under slavery, and (even worse in my opinion) the filthy-rich owner of an NBA team berating his black girlfriend on tape for bringing black people to his basketball games, where mostly black players make him even wealthier several times a week.

Bundy, 67, is a hardscrabble rancher who’d never have had a public platform without wealthy hucksters at Fox News. The 80-year-old Donald Sterling, by contrast, owns a basketball team valued at over $500 million and a real estate empire where he’s had to settle for millions of dollars in race discrimination cases. He’s given money to politicians (mostly Democrats, the right will have you know) and was about to receive a poorly timed award from the NAACP.

It’s just another episode of “Angry Old White Men Gone Wild,” but the two men’s sins aren’t the same. Racism wasn’t entirely shocking coming from the not-too-sharp Nevada cattleman who seems to have marinated in the paranoid anti-government thinking that’s taken hold in marginal white communities. Its crude expression was much more disturbing coming from the powerful, wealthy Sterling.

But there’s more than simple anti-black racism linking the views of Bundy and Sterling. They share an ignorant, self-serving paternalism.

more
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/28/donald_sterling_and_cliven_bundys_ignorant_paterna lism_angry_old_white_men_gone_wild_again/

:rofl:

Also note it has now been CONFIRMED he is a Republican and tea party supporter! LOL the anti-American right wing keeps digging themselves deeper and deeper.

Peter1469
04-28-2014, 03:16 PM
What, not laying on your back and letting the federal government pet your belly is wrong?

The Xl
04-28-2014, 03:18 PM
Also note it has now been CONFIRMED he is a Republican and tea party supporter! LOL the anti-American right wing keeps digging themselves deeper and deeper.

You're a very simple minded person.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 03:18 PM
It's a myth that slavery was abolished. It just took on a new form with different beneficiaries.

http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu20/KEG1984/75097362f1fce0df5e030ddee0ef9e2f_zps62595003.jpg

Bob
04-28-2014, 03:18 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Matalese http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592245#post592245)
Tell me something true! Are you as outraged at black racists? Or is it just white people who offend you? I think white people offend you by their mere existence!


Show me some comparable examples.

You and your faux hissy fit and Cigar's and some others posting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MrJimmyDale
04-28-2014, 03:21 PM
It's a myth that slavery was abolished. It just took on a new form with different beneficiaries. http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu20/KEG1984/75097362f1fce0df5e030ddee0ef9e2f_zps62595003.jpg voluntary slavery

hanger4
04-28-2014, 03:26 PM
Also note it has now been CONFIRMED he is a Republican and tea party supporter! LOL the anti-American right wing keeps digging themselves deeper and deeper.Tea party supporter ?? Link ??

Bob
04-28-2014, 03:27 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MrJimmyDale http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592293#post592293)
This will go away once the Clippers are out of the playoffs


I doubt it. If they lose, the perception will be that they were demoralized by the owner.

Oh my god. The size of a players sum of cash on that one check, paid if they beat the Warriors, is many pounds of cash.

If they got their feelings hurt, they are not pros.

Note to forum. I once sold to a player a home that played in the Super Bowl. His team lost to the Raiders. He got a shocking sum of cash just to play in the Super Bowl.

If these guys are so much a baby, they deserve to lose. Clearly they do not know all of the story yet rush to judgement.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 03:28 PM
voluntary slavery

There is nothing "voluntary" about it. Non-violent offenses, from drug possession to tax evasion, are criminalized in order to keep us enslaved to a class of corporate rent-seekers. Far from abolishing slavery, Lincoln turned the entire country into one big plantation.

nic34
04-28-2014, 03:30 PM
It's a hypothetical scenario that has direct relevance to the inquiry made by Bundy, i.e., are black people better off under slavery than they are now? I stipulated that clearly this does not apply to ALL black people, for example, Neil deGrasse Tyson, a well-respected physicist, but for SOME black people, it's not immediately apparent if they would have been better off. You are just being evasive because you don't want to answer hard questions about racial politics.



When I growed up I married Exter Durham. He belonged to Marse Snipes Durham who had de plantation 'cross de county line in Orange County. We had a big weddin'. We was married on de front po'ch of de big house. Marse George killed a shoat an' Mis' Betsy had Georgianna, de cook, to bake a big weddin' cake all iced up white as snow wid a bride an' groom standin' in de middle holdin' han's. De table was set out in de yard under de trees, an' you ain't never seed de like of eats. All de niggers come to de feas' an' Marse George had a for everybody.

Dat was some weddin'. I had on a white dress, white shoes an' long while gloves dat come to my elbow, an' Mis' Betsy done made me a weddin' veil out of a white net window curtain. When she played de weddin' ma'ch on de piano, me an' Exter ma'ched down de walk an' up on de po'ch to de altar Mis' Betsy done fixed. Dat de pretties' altar I ever seed. Back 'gainst de rose vine dat was full or red roses, Mis' Betsy done put tables filled wid flowers an' white candles. She spread down a bed sheet, a sho nuff linen sheet, for us to stan' on, an' dey was a white pillow to kneel down on. Exter done made me a weddin' ring. He made it out of a big red button wid his pocket knife. He done cut it so roun' an' polished it so smooth dat it looked like a red satin ribbon tide 'roun' my finger. Dat sho was a pretty ring. I wore it 'bout fifty years, den it got so thin dat I lost it one day in de wash tub when I was washin' clothes.

Uncle Edmond Kirby married us. He was de nigger preacher dat preached at de plantation church. After Uncle Edmond said de las' words over me an' Exter, Marse George got to have his little fun: He say, 'Come on, Exter, you an' Tempie got to jump over de broom stick backwards; you got to do dat to see which one gwine be boss of your househol'.' Everybody come stan' 'roun to watch. Marse George hold de broom 'bout a foot high off de floor. De one dat jump over it backwards an' never touch de handle, gwine boss de house, an' if bof of dem jump over widout touchin' it, dey won't gwine be no bossin', dey jus'gwine be 'genial. I jumped fus', an' you ought to seed me. I sailed right over dat broom stick same as a cricket, but when Exter jump he done had a big dram an' his feets was so big an' clumsy dat dey got all tangled up in dat broom an' he fell head long. Marse George he laugh an' laugh, an' tole Exter he gwine be bossed 'twell he skeered to speak less'n I tole him to speak.

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/wpa/durham1.html

Sounds like a wedding to me.



If I were the emperor of America, I would pardon every non-violent offender locked away in prison, and legalize drugs, gambling, and prostitution, but that has no relevance to the contention pertaining to Bundy's inquiry.



I have SOME idea based upon contemporary and historical evidence, both of which you are ignoring or dismissing because you refuse to question your racial and political dogma. You are scared to even try to answer the simple and fair question of whether or not some black people would be better off on a southern plantation than in a northern jail because it would force you to reexamine your dogmatic beliefs.

Show that your examples aren't just exceptions to the rules and not a sad attempt to re-write history.

Bob
04-28-2014, 03:32 PM
And I recall the days when we used to claim that the Soviets had no right of free speech. This nation is in the toilet when a person gets baited, due to a lawsuit, then blamed for taking the bait coming from an admitted negro woman.


http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Cigar http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592097#post592097)
Donald Sterling’s racial views are worse than Cliven Bundy’s, yet some on the right defend the racist billionaire


Chief Justice John Roberts has to wonder if the universe is talking back to him after the Supreme Court last week struck down affirmative action in Michigan, relying on his fatuous 2007 declaration that “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” Just to prove racism is still with us, we had Cliven Bundy pop off about lazy black people being better off under slavery, and (even worse in my opinion) the filthy-rich owner of an NBA team berating his black girlfriend on tape for bringing black people to his basketball games, where mostly black players make him even wealthier several times a week.

Bundy, 67, is a hardscrabble rancher who’d never have had a public platform without wealthy hucksters at Fox News. The 80-year-old Donald Sterling, by contrast, owns a basketball team valued at over $500 million and a real estate empire where he’s had to settle for millions of dollars in race discrimination cases. He’s given money to politicians (mostly Democrats, the right will have you know) and was about to receive a poorly timed award from the NAACP.

It’s just another episode of “Angry Old White Men Gone Wild,” but the two men’s sins aren’t the same. Racism wasn’t entirely shocking coming from the not-too-sharp Nevada cattleman who seems to have marinated in the paranoid anti-government thinking that’s taken hold in marginal white communities. Its crude expression was much more disturbing coming from the powerful, wealthy Sterling.

But there’s more than simple anti-black racism linking the views of Bundy and Sterling. They share an ignorant, self-serving paternalism.

more
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/28/dona...ne_wild_again/ (http://www.salon.com/2014/04/28/donald_sterling_and_cliven_bundys_ignorant_paterna lism_angry_old_white_men_gone_wild_again/)

Bob
04-28-2014, 03:38 PM
Show that your examples aren't just exceptions to the rules and not a sad attempt to re-write history.

Actually, you never learned the actual history. You learned only that which the left allowed you to learn.

Were I to tell you that our current military is filled with slaves, no doubt you would laugh and shrug it off.

But the men, to a man, must fully obey lawful orders. If they don't, they can serve time in prison.

Slaves lived much like they lived at Mt. Vernon and Monticello. Go visit both plantations. It might shed you of your prejudices.

peoshi
04-28-2014, 03:42 PM
There is nothing "voluntary" about it. That's not entirely true...breaking the law is a choice whether you agree with the law or not.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 03:51 PM
Show that your examples aren't just exceptions to the rules...

And why would I have to do that? I didn't claim that all black people would categorically be better off living on a southern plantation. I only claimed that some black people might be better off living on a southern plantation, particularly, the ones rotting away in prison and/or poverty. In order to demonstrate the plausibility of this proposition, I cited firsthand accounts of slaves who led happy lives. Instead of addressing my actual position in an honest and intellectual manner, you have done nothing but evade my questions and misrepresent my position in a desperate attempt to avoid examining your own beliefs and preconceptions.


...and not a sad attempt to re-write history.

Citing firsthand accounts of slavery is re-writing history? Interesting logic.

Bob
04-28-2014, 03:53 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592383#post592383)
Military EM are slaves and to a lesser degree so are the officers.

It is a top down system where the man on the top orders those below who due to penalty of punishment swear to obey. The oath is no option.


Tell me about it!

I recall turning 25 in Germany and working for First Sgt. Dodd.

I says to him, Sgt. Dodd, don't you think it is nuts that we are here supposedly to fight for the rights of Americans, when we ourselves don't have those same rights?

Dodd looks at me and says, W..... You are talking like a god damned communist.

The amusing thing for Dodd is you could have the most green 2nd lt walk in and he rose as if a General came in. I used to laugh at his kiss ass tactics.

A true leader does not need some kiss ass, he needs a person who is not an alcoholic First Sgt, as Dodd definitely was, being part of leadership. (I recall his first name but out of respect to a man I presume died from alcohol related problems, I do not say his first name.)

I well recall when the Basic Training company commander appointed me as a rookie, to lead one of his platoons as a platoon sgt, the platoon ended up with top honors and I did not shit all over the em. They performed well for me because I believed in actual leadership.

As Pete and many other officers prove, one might serve as an EM and later as an officer. My own CO, then Capt. Ricard had served in Korea as an EM, company clerk. Working for him was a dream. And the man was super fair to EM. His XO was terrible. And he was ROTC and some snob from a well to do family. I never saw a worse XO than that man. Even the bird COL came one day to give him a royal ass chewing. As Pete can tell you, that is not normal for a higher ranking officer to do that around EM. But this COL was furious. I recall the S-4 Major also treating this punk XO like scum. It gave me hope that most officers were that way and not the way the XO was. Was this XO a democrat? Hell, he never said. Now that I look back on him, my thinking has evolved to where I simply believe he was very immature and not a real leader.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 03:58 PM
That's not entirely true...

Only if you don't know what "voluntary" means.


...breaking the law is a choice whether you agree with the law or not.

It's a choice, but it is not a voluntary one. If I put a gun to your head and commanded you to rape your mother, you would have two choices, but they would not be voluntary choices.

junie
04-28-2014, 04:01 PM
Snoop Dogg BLASTS DONALD STERLING 'You Racist Piece of S**t' (http://www.tmz.com/2014/04/26/snoop-dogg-blasts-donald-sterling/)

Bob
04-28-2014, 04:03 PM
You found a few quotes from people that were probably slaves all their lives and now for some reason were not and doing badly.

Don't you think if they had never been slaves they would have never have been in the position to fail at being free? You've used a really ridiculous point to justify slavery.

Slaves were freed by law in 1865.

How is it working out for them?

Nobody actually justified slavery but the history of slavery did not start in the South.

And slaves were part of the reason so many in the South were rich people. Rich people realize the cost of animals, tools and homes. They love profits.

A stupid owner did as the movies love to show, to wit: beating the skin off slaves.

I am sure it happened. Was it normal? Hell no it was not normal.

No more normal than cowboys beating the crap out of their horses or the milk rancher beating up his dairy cows.

This myth will not die. And I blame democrats.

No truth nor logic matters to democrats.

They learn a lie and repeat it over and over.

Slaves had employment
good places to live in, based on standards of that era.
Some of you ought to actually visit one of those plantations. Visit more than one.

You don't beat your dog, yet you presume negros were beaten up all the time on all the plantations.

What fools.

MrJimmyDale
04-28-2014, 04:06 PM
There is nothing "voluntary" about it. Non-violent offenses, from drug possession to tax evasion, are criminalized in order to keep us enslaved to a class of corporate rent-seekers. Far from abolishing slavery, Lincoln turned the entire country into one big plantation. I was thinking more from the entitlement side of the road.........

Mainecoons
04-28-2014, 04:09 PM
The point is that blacks traded physical slavery for government slavery, courtesy of the progressives who have tried like hell to get rid of them with abortion and haven't quite succeeded. However, degrading them to the level of animals, giving them drugs and guns has also managed to kill off a bunch more.

To assuage their guilt over this, they throw a few scraps to the "house blacks" like Cigar in the form of "equal opportunity."

Nothing could be more illustrative of what progressives do to blacks than the election of Barack Obama, a man so unqualified and so failed at his job that he will poison the well for qualified people of color for decades. Of course, we've seen how malleable he is for the corporatist progressives so maybe that was the goal to begin with. Get him elected as a "historic" (read token) black POTUS and then steal the rest of us blind.

They succeeded. On both counts.

Matty
04-28-2014, 04:11 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/los-angeles-naacp-set-give-donald-sterling-lifetime-achievement-award-article-1.1770236

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 04:11 PM
I was thinking more from the entitlement side of the road.........

Entitlements are crumbs to keep the slaves from revolting.

nic34
04-28-2014, 04:17 PM
And why would I have to do that? I didn't claim that all black people would categorically be better off living on a southern plantation. I only claimed that some black people might be better off living on a southern plantation, particularly, the ones rotting away in prison and/or poverty. In order to demonstrate the plausibility of this proposition, I cited firsthand accounts of slaves who led happy lives. Instead of addressing my actual position in an honest and intellectual manner, you have done nothing but evade my questions and misrepresent my position in a desperate attempt to avoid examining your own beliefs and preconceptions.



Citing firsthand accounts of slavery is re-writing history? Interesting logic.


Arizona Republican: Slavery Was Good For Black People Because ‘Slave Owners Took Care Of Their Livestock’ (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/03/15/arizona-republican-slavery-was-good-for-black-people/)

1751_Texan
04-28-2014, 04:17 PM
Entitlements are crumbs to keep the slaves from revolting.

we are all slaves to something

Montoya
04-28-2014, 04:18 PM
And why would I have to do that? I didn't claim that all black people would categorically be better off living on a southern plantation. I only claimed that some black people might be better off living on a southern plantation, particularly, the ones rotting away in prison and/or poverty. In order to demonstrate the plausibility of this proposition, I cited firsthand accounts of slaves who led happy lives. Instead of addressing my actual position in an honest and intellectual manner, you have done nothing but evade my questions and misrepresent my position in a desperate attempt to avoid examining your own beliefs and preconceptions.



Citing firsthand accounts of slavery is re-writing history? Interesting logic.
No surprise you are a racist.

peoshi
04-28-2014, 04:18 PM
Only if you don't know what "voluntary" means.



It's a choice, but it is not a voluntary one. If I put a gun to your head and commanded you to rape your mother, you would have two choices, but they would not be voluntary choices.So you are saying that using drugs is not a voluntary choice?

Is someone putting a gun to their head telling them to use drugs?

If not then explain to me how it is not a voluntary choice?

Edit: I am not saying that I agree with drug laws, but claiming that using drugs for recreation is not voluntary(if you actually know what "voluntary" means) is ridiculous.

Chris
04-28-2014, 04:24 PM
The point is that blacks traded physical slavery for government slavery, courtesy of the progressives who have tried like hell to get rid of them with abortion and haven't quite succeeded. However, degrading them to the level of animals, giving them drugs and guns has also managed to kill off a bunch more.

To assuage their guilt over this, they throw a few scraps to the "house blacks" like Cigar in the form of "equal opportunity."

Nothing could be more illustrative of what progressives do to blacks than the election of Barack Obama, a man so unqualified and so failed at his job that he will poison the well for qualified people of color for decades. Of course, we've seen how malleable he is for the corporatist progressives so maybe that was the goal to begin with. Get him elected as a "historic" (read token) black POTUS and then steal the rest of us blind.

They succeeded. On both counts.


To progressives slavery to government is voluntary.

Chris
04-28-2014, 04:25 PM
we are all slaves to something


No surprise you are a racist.



Rendering the word meaningless.

Peter1469
04-28-2014, 04:33 PM
Rendering the word meaningless.

Ignore Montoya. He is working on his third infraction in as many days.

1751_Texan
04-28-2014, 04:35 PM
Rendering the word meaningless.

Just incase you did not notice the 13th amendment officially did that.

And here is your contribution to the endevor...


To progressives slavery to government is voluntary.

Chris
04-28-2014, 04:41 PM
Just incase you did not notice the 13th amendment officially did that.

And here is your contribution to the endevor...

13th is about slavery, involuntary servitude, not about your voluntary servitude to government.

It was comments like yours renders the word "racism" meaningless.

And the fauxrage of some other posters.

Bob
04-28-2014, 04:42 PM
Arizona Republican: Slavery Was Good For Black People Because ‘Slave Owners Took Care Of Their Livestock’ (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/03/15/arizona-republican-slavery-was-good-for-black-people/)



Democrats do all sorts of shitty things to the negro despite claiming they are all for the negro. They claim to be best friends to the negro who are easily fooled.

Make a list, Democrats, of what you actually fought for that helped Negros?

The list will be extremely short.

Republicans list is far longer.

1. Lincoln
2. Civil Rights law 1964
3. Changes to the constitution that favor Negroes.

That is some pretty heavy hitting and no doubt Democrats simply can't match this list.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2014, 04:42 PM
http://thelibertyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Progressive-PSA-announcement.jpg

nic34
04-28-2014, 04:43 PM
Democrats do all sorts of shitty things to the negro despite claiming they are all for the negro. They claim to be best friends to the negro who are easily fooled.

Make a list, Democrats, of what you actually fought for that helped Negros?

The list will be extremely short.

Republicans list is far longer.

1. Lincoln
2. Civil Rights law 1964
3. Changes to the constitution that favor Negroes.

That is some pretty heavy hitting and no doubt Democrats simply can't match this list.

All those changes came from progressives....

Bob
04-28-2014, 04:46 PM
No surprise you are a racist.

As a Pilot, we have a saying. There are bold pilots and there are old pilots. There are no bold old pilots.

Your language is a path to not being an old bold poster.

Bob
04-28-2014, 04:48 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592526#post592526)
Democrats do all sorts of shitty things to the negro despite claiming they are all for the negro. They claim to be best friends to the negro who are easily fooled.

Make a list, Democrats, of what you actually fought for that helped Negros?

The list will be extremely short.

Republicans list is far longer.

1. Lincoln
2. Civil Rights law 1964
3. Changes to the constitution that favor Negroes.

That is some pretty heavy hitting and no doubt Democrats simply can't match this list.


All those changes came from progressives....

A progressive is not clearly defined in the English vernacular.

But at the very least, you did not claim Democrats did any of that.

This might not be your forte. I hope some Democrat pretends they did all of that.

Mainecoons
04-28-2014, 04:50 PM
Nic, let me assure you that the progressives who ended slavery have no resemblance to the like of you at all. They would probably shoot you on the spot.

Chris
04-28-2014, 04:52 PM
A progressive is not clearly defined in the English vernacular.

But at the very least, you did not claim Democrats did any of that.

This might not be your forte. I hope some Democrat pretends they did all of that.



No kidding! Who filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act again?

Peter1469
04-28-2014, 04:57 PM
No kidding! Who filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act again?

Algore's father for one.

Bob
04-28-2014, 05:13 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=592533#post592533)
A progressive is not clearly defined in the English vernacular.

But at the very least, you did not claim Democrats did any of that.

This might not be your forte. I hope some Democrat pretends they did all of that.


No kidding! Who filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act again?

Peter mentions Al Gore's father and he is correct.

Far too many Democrats were involved in the filibuster against that law. They are listed in the records kept by the Congress of the USA. I am not certain if any of you use that resource, but it is the one honest description of past events so far as acts by congress are concerned.

Democrats duck and hide about their past.

nic34
04-28-2014, 05:24 PM
No kidding! Who filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act again?

Who did MLK support?


King was not a partisan and never endorsed any political candidate. In a 1958 interview, King said “I don’t think the Republican party is a party full of the almighty God nor is the Democratic party. They both have weaknesses … And I’m not inextricably bound to either party.”

King did, however, weigh in on the Republican party during his lifetime. In Chapter 23 of his autobiography, King writes this about the 1964 Republican National Convention:

The Republican Party geared its appeal and program to racism, reaction, and extremism. All people of goodwill viewed with alarm and concern the frenzied wedding at the Cow Palace of the KKK with the radical right. The “best man” at this ceremony was a senator whose voting record, philosophy, and program were anathema to all the hard-won achievements of the past decade.

Senator Goldwater had neither the concern nor the comprehension necessary to grapple with this problem of poverty in the fashion that the historical moment dictated. On the urgent issue of civil rights, Senator Goldwater represented a philosophy that was morally indefensible and socially suicidal. While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulated a philosophy which gave aid and comfort to the racist. His candidacy and philosophy would serve as an umbrella under which extremists of all stripes would stand. In the light of these facts and because of my love for America, I had no alternative but to urge every Negro and white person of goodwill to vote against Mr. Goldwater and to withdraw support from any Republican candidate that did not publicly disassociate himself from Senator Goldwater and his philosophy.

King barnstormed the country on behalf on Johnson in 1964, “maintaining only a thin veneer of nonpartisanship,” according to biographer Nick Kotz. King called Johnson’s win a “great victory for the forces of progress and a defeat for the forces of retrogress.”

Here is what King had to say about Ronald Reagan, the hero of modern Republicans:

When a Hollywood performer, lacking distinction even as an actor can become a leading war hawk candidate for the Presidency, only the irrationalities induced by a war psychosis can explain such a melancholy turn of events.

David Garrow, who wrote a Pulitzer Prize winning biography of King, stated “It’s simply incorrect to call Dr. King a Republican.”
King, according to Garrow, did hold some Republicans — including Richard Nixon and Nelson Rockefeller — in high regard. He also was harshly critical of Lyndon Johnson’s escalation of the Vietnam War.

In 2008, King’s son Martin Luther King III said “It is disingenuous to imply that my father was a Republican. He never endorsed any presidential candidate, and there is certainly no evidence that he ever even voted for a Republican.” Garrow claimed there is little doubt King voted for Kennedy in 1960 and Johnson in 1964.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/08/28/2540251/martin-luther-king-republican/

Peter1469
04-28-2014, 05:26 PM
I agree with Dr. King 100%.


Who did MLK support?


King was not a partisan and never endorsed any political candidate. In a 1958 interview, King said “I don’t think the Republican party is a party full of the almighty God nor is the Democratic party. They both have weaknesses … And I’m not inextricably bound to either party.”

King did, however, weigh in on the Republican party during his lifetime. In Chapter 23 of his autobiography, King writes this about the 1964 Republican National Convention:

The Republican Party geared its appeal and program to racism, reaction, and extremism. All people of goodwill viewed with alarm and concern the frenzied wedding at the Cow Palace of the KKK with the radical right. The “best man” at this ceremony was a senator whose voting record, philosophy, and program were anathema to all the hard-won achievements of the past decade.

Senator Goldwater had neither the concern nor the comprehension necessary to grapple with this problem of poverty in the fashion that the historical moment dictated. On the urgent issue of civil rights, Senator Goldwater represented a philosophy that was morally indefensible and socially suicidal. While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulated a philosophy which gave aid and comfort to the racist. His candidacy and philosophy would serve as an umbrella under which extremists of all stripes would stand. In the light of these facts and because of my love for America, I had no alternative but to urge every Negro and white person of goodwill to vote against Mr. Goldwater and to withdraw support from any Republican candidate that did not publicly disassociate himself from Senator Goldwater and his philosophy.

King barnstormed the country on behalf on Johnson in 1964, “maintaining only a thin veneer of nonpartisanship,” according to biographer Nick Kotz. King called Johnson’s win a “great victory for the forces of progress and a defeat for the forces of retrogress.”

Here is what King had to say about Ronald Reagan, the hero of modern Republicans:

When a Hollywood performer, lacking distinction even as an actor can become a leading war hawk candidate for the Presidency, only the irrationalities induced by a war psychosis can explain such a melancholy turn of events.

David Garrow, who wrote a Pulitzer Prize winning biography of King, stated “It’s simply incorrect to call Dr. King a Republican.”
King, according to Garrow, did hold some Republicans — including Richard Nixon and Nelson Rockefeller — in high regard. He also was harshly critical of Lyndon Johnson’s escalation of the Vietnam War.

In 2008, King’s son Martin Luther King III said “It is disingenuous to imply that my father was a Republican. He never endorsed any presidential candidate, and there is certainly no evidence that he ever even voted for a Republican.” Garrow claimed there is little doubt King voted for Kennedy in 1960 and Johnson in 1964.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/08/28/2540251/martin-luther-king-republican/

keymanjim
04-28-2014, 05:30 PM
Who did MLK support?



http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/08/28/2540251/martin-luther-king-republican/


Still perpetuating the fantasy that the democrats and republicans all of a sudden decided to trade ideologies?

Chris
04-28-2014, 05:40 PM
Nic, that doesn't answer the question.

Not sure what someone else's opinion about MLK's opinions says about progressives.

nic34
04-28-2014, 05:43 PM
Nic, that doesn't answer the question.

Not sure what someone else's opinion about MLK's opinions says about progressives.


Who filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act again?

King wasn't fooled by party labels, he knew who supported civil rights and who didn't....

keymanjim
04-28-2014, 05:43 PM
Nic, that doesn't answer the question.

Not sure what someone else's opinion about MLK's opinions says about progressives.
Let me simplify his stance on any advances in our society.
If it was good, the progressives made it happen.
If it was bad, the conservatives did it.
Of course, this doesn't fit with reality. But, ones reality need not exist any further than the tip of their nose.

Chris
04-28-2014, 06:15 PM
King wasn't fooled by party labels, he knew who supported civil rights and who didn't....

Be great if you followed your hero.

Bob
04-28-2014, 06:17 PM
Think progress is a very disingenuous site.

For Democrats to try to claim that MLK was just like they are, is a smear on the name of MLK.

http://www.humanevents.com/2006/08/16/why-martin-luther-king-was-republican/

See link for entire article

During the civil rights era of the 1960s, Dr. King was fighting the Democrats who stood in the school house doors, turned skin-burning fire hoses on blacks and let loose vicious dogs. It was Republican President Dwight Eisenhower who pushed to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1957 and sent troops to Arkansas to desegregate schools. President Eisenhower also appointed Chief Justice Earl Warren to the U.S. Supreme Court, which resulted in the 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision ending school segregation. Much is made of Democrat President Harry Truman’s issuing an Executive Order in 1948 to desegregate the military. Not mentioned is the fact that it was Eisenhower who actually took action to effectively end segregation in the military.
Democrat President John F. Kennedy is lauded as a proponent of civil rights. However, Kennedy voted against the 1957 Civil Rights Act while he was a senator, as did Democrat Sen. Al Gore Sr. And after he became President, Kennedy was opposed to the 1963 March on Washington by Dr. King that was organized by A. Phillip Randolph, who was a black Republican. President Kennedy, through his brother Atty. Gen. Robert Kennedy, had Dr. King wiretapped and investigated by the FBI on suspicion of being a Communist in order to undermine Dr. King.
In March of 1968, while referring to Dr. King’s leaving Memphis, Tenn., after riots broke out where a teenager was killed, Democrat Sen. Robert Byrd (W.Va.), a former member of the Ku Klux Klan, called Dr. King a “trouble-maker” who starts trouble, but runs like a coward after trouble is ignited. A few weeks later, Dr. King returned to Memphis and was assassinated on April 4, 1968.
Given the circumstances of that era, it is understandable why Dr. King was a Republican. It was the Republicans who fought to free blacks from slavery and amended the Constitution to grant blacks freedom (13th Amendment), citizenship (14th Amendment) and the right to vote (15th Amendment). Republicans passed the civil rights laws of the 1860s, including the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the Reconstruction Act of 1867 that was designed to establish a new government system in the Democrat-controlled South, one that was fair to blacks. Republicans also started the NAACP and affirmative action with Republican President Richard Nixon’s 1969 Philadelphia Plan (crafted by black Republican Art Fletcher) that set the nation’s fist goals and timetables. Although affirmative action now has been turned by the Democrats into an unfair quota system, affirmative action was begun by Nixon to counter the harm caused to blacks when Democrat President Woodrow Wilson in 1912 kicked all of the blacks out of federal government jobs.
Few black Americans know that it was Republicans who founded the Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Unknown also is the fact that Republican Sen. Everett Dirksen from Illinois was key to the passage of civil rights legislation in 1957, 1960, 1964 and 1965. Not mentioned in recent media stories about extension of the 1965 Voting Rights Act is the fact that Dirksen wrote the language for the bill. Dirksen also crafted the language for the Civil Rights Act of 1968 which prohibited discrimination in housing. President Lyndon Johnson could not have achieved passage of civil rights legislation without the support of Republicans.
Critics of Republican Sen. Barry Goldwater, who ran for President against Johnson in 1964, ignore the fact that Goldwater wanted to force the Democrats in the South to stop passing discriminatory laws and thus end the need to continuously enact federal civil rights legislation.
Those who wrongly criticize Goldwater also ignore the fact that Johnson, in his 4,500 State of the Union Address delivered on Jan. 4, 1965, mentioned scores of topics for federal action, but only 35 words were devoted to civil rights. He did not mention one word about voting rights. Then in 1967, showing his anger with Dr. King’s protest against the Vietnam War, Johnson referred to Dr. King as “that Nigger preacher.”
Contrary to the false assertions by Democrats, the racist “Dixiecrats” did not all migrate to the Republican Party. “Dixiecrats” declared that they would rather vote for a “yellow dog” than vote for a Republican because the Republican Party was know as the party for blacks. Today, some of those “Dixiecrats” continue their political careers as Democrats, including Robert Byrd, who is well known for having been a “Keagle” in the Ku Klux Klan.
Another former “Dixiecrat” is former Democrat Sen. Ernest Hollings, who put up the Confederate flag over the state Capitol when he was the governor of South Carolina. There was no public outcry when Democrat Sen. Christopher (http://www.humanevents.com/author/Christopher) Dodd praised Byrd as someone who would have been “a great senator for any moment,” including the Civil War. Yet Democrats denounced then-Senate GOP leader Trent Lott for his remarks about Sen. Strom Thurmond (R.-S.C.). Thurmond was never in the Ku Klux Klan and defended blacks against lynching and the discriminatory poll taxes imposed on blacks by Democrats. If Byrd and Thurmond were alive during the Civil War, and Byrd had his way, Thurmond would have been lynched.
The 30-year odyssey of the South switching to the Republican Party began in the 1970s with President Richard Nixon’s “Southern Strategy,” which was an effort on the part of Nixon to get Christians in the South to stop voting for Democrats who did not share their values and were still discriminating against their fellow Christians who happened to be black. Georgia did not switch until 2002, and some Southern states, including Louisiana, are still controlled by Democrats.
Today, Democrats, in pursuit of their socialist agenda, are fighting to keep blacks poor, angry and voting for Democrats. Examples of how egregiously Democrats act to keep blacks in poverty are numerous.
After wrongly convincing black Americans that a minimum wage increase was a good thing, the Democrats on August 3 kept their promise and killed the minimum wage bill passed by House Republicans on July 29. The blockage of the minimum wage bill was the second time in as many years that Democrats stuck a legislative finger in the eye of black Americans. Senate Democrats on April 1, 2004, blocked passage of a bill to renew the 1996 welfare reform law that was pushed by Republicans and vetoed twice by President Clinton before he finally signed it. Since the welfare reform law expired in September 2002, Congress had passed six extensions, and the latest expired on June 30, 2004. Opposed by the Democrats are school choice opportunity scholarships that would help black children get out of failing schools and Social Security reform, even though blacks on average lose $10,000 in the current system because of a shorter life expectancy than whites (72.2 years for blacks vs. 77.5 years for whites).
Democrats have been running our inner-cities for the past 30 to 40 years, and blacks are still complaining about the same problems. More than $7 trillion dollars have been spent on poverty programs since Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty with little, if any, impact on poverty. Diabolically, every election cycle, Democrats blame Republicans for the deplorable conditions in the inner-cities, then incite blacks to cast a protest vote against Republicans.
In order to break the Democrats’ stranglehold on the black vote and free black Americans from the Democrat Party’s economic plantation, we must shed the light of truth on the Democrats. We must demonstrate that the Democrat Party policies of socialism and dependency on government handouts offer the pathway to poverty, while Republican Party principles of hard work, personal responsibility, getting a good education and ownership of homes and small businesses offer the pathway to prosperity.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 06:20 PM
Snoop Dogg

BLASTS DONALD STERLING

'You Racist Piece of S**t'

(http://www.tmz.com/2014/04/26/snoop-dogg-blasts-donald-sterling/)

because we know that Snoop and his ilk have done their very best to improve the image of blacks America. :rollseyes:

Chris
04-28-2014, 06:33 PM
because we know that Snoop and his ilk have done their very best to improve the image of blacks America. :rollseyes:



Kareem offers a more balanced, intelligent response to the kerfluffle: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Welcome to the Finger-Wagging Olympics (http://time.com/79590/donald-sterling-kareem-abdul-jabbar-racism/). People who appeal to Snoop wouldn't to Kareem.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 06:34 PM
That's just your self-serving interpretation of what they said.



I'm not going to engage in speculation, or entertain your biased interpretation of their narratives. I am going to insist that you explain how their lives were any worse than the hundreds of thousands of black men rotting away in prison as we speak. What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?



Now you are just lying.
You absolutely did excuse slavery by saying some black people might be better off as slaves.

Cigar
04-28-2014, 06:36 PM
because we know that Snoop and his ilk have done their very best to improve the image of blacks America. :rollseyes:

When did it become a Rapper Job to improve anyone lives but himself :rollseyes:

Tell us, what celebrity is improving your pathetic life, and who made that assignment?

Ravi
04-28-2014, 06:38 PM
Arizona Republican: Slavery Was Good For Black People Because ‘Slave Owners Took Care Of Their Livestock’ (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/03/15/arizona-republican-slavery-was-good-for-black-people/)


Hahaha can the republicans get any stupider?

Peter1469
04-28-2014, 06:39 PM
Hahaha can the republicans get any stupider?

About equal to dem stupidity.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 06:41 PM
http://thelibertyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Progressive-PSA-announcement.jpg
Maybe, just maybe, the dopes on the right should stop appearing to be racist and defending those that do.

junie
04-28-2014, 06:43 PM
this is getting pretty sad...


7053

Ravi
04-28-2014, 06:43 PM
All those changes came from progressives....
Except the third one. That never happened. Though it does reveal a chip on bob's shoulder.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 06:43 PM
When did it become a Rapper Job to improve anyone lives but himself :rollseyes:

Tell us, what celebrity is improving your pathetic life, and who made that assignment?

Your fellow minstrel had something to say. I just think it's amusing when a man who makes a living making blacks look ridiculous gets offended by the attitudes his own actions help perpetuate.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 06:46 PM
You absolutely did excuse slavery by saying some black people might be better off as slaves.

:facepalm:

Mainecoons
04-28-2014, 06:50 PM
You absolutely did excuse slavery by saying some black people might be better off as slaves.

You absolutely should seek treatment for your reading and comprehension problems.

Never mind, you're a liberal. Hopeless.

Chris
04-28-2014, 06:57 PM
You absolutely did excuse slavery by saying some black people might be better off as slaves.

Sorry, but no he did not. That reading comes from you, not ethereal.

Chris
04-28-2014, 06:59 PM
When did it become a Rapper Job to improve anyone lives but himself :rollseyes:

Tell us, what celebrity is improving your pathetic life, and who made that assignment?


You're replying to the wrong person, junie's the one brought snoop into it. I too wondered why she picks snoop as a source of opinion.

Chris
04-28-2014, 07:01 PM
You absolutely should seek treatment for your reading and comprehension problems.

Never mind, you're a liberal. Hopeless.



The desperation of some partisans is getting silly.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 07:23 PM
Arizona Republican: Slavery Was Good For Black People Because ‘Slave Owners Took Care Of Their Livestock’ (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/03/15/arizona-republican-slavery-was-good-for-black-people/)

Keep dodging. It only reinforces your inability to address my position in an honest and intelligent manner.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 07:25 PM
we are all slaves to something

That something is the state.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 07:25 PM
No surprise you are a racist.

Another dishonest accusation from a notorious mental midget.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 07:27 PM
So you are saying that using drugs is not a voluntary choice?

Is someone putting a gun to their head telling them to use drugs?

If not then explain to me how it is not a voluntary choice?

Edit: I am not saying that I agree with drug laws, but claiming that using drugs for recreation is not voluntary(if you actually know what "voluntary" means) is ridiculous.

Did they volunteer to go to prison for using drugs? No, they did not, hence it is not a voluntary arrangement.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 07:32 PM
Ignore Montoya. He is working on his third infraction in as many days.

No, let him humiliate himself. He was able to insulate himself from appropriately harsh criticism on the other forum because of its strict rules of engagement. Here, he will finally get the medicine he so rightfully deserves. Maybe the deadbeat commie loser will finally learn a lesson.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 07:36 PM
You absolutely did excuse slavery by saying some black people might be better off as slaves.

Saying that some black people might be better off as slaves is not a justification of slavery. To suggest otherwise is delusional.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 07:41 PM
These emotional reactions are a pity. There are certain things Americans simply cannot discuss rationally. For example, anything whatsoever that touches on race. As embarrassing as it is to watch at times it does provide some interesting food for thought on the American psyche.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 07:47 PM
This is truly amazing. There are hundreds of thousands black men rotting in prison right now, many of whom their only "crime" was possessing or distributing drugs to other adults, and the mere suggestion that these prisoners might be better off on a southern plantation elicits accusations of racism and slavery apologia from the leftist-statists. How stupid and emotional do you people plan on getting in your dogmatic quest to appear "progressive"?

Ravi
04-28-2014, 08:23 PM
Saying that some black people might be better off as slaves is not a justification of slavery. To suggest otherwise is delusional.
Yeah, it is. No one is better off as a slave. I'm actually disappointed that you think otherwise.

Ravi
04-28-2014, 08:26 PM
This is truly amazing. There are hundreds of thousands black men rotting in prison right now, many of whom their only "crime" was possessing or distributing drugs to other adults, and the mere suggestion that these prisoners might be better off on a southern plantation elicits accusations of racism and slavery apologia from the leftist-statists. How stupid and emotional do you people plan on getting in your dogmatic quest to appear "progressive"?dude, there is no way out of slavery nor any choice. I agree that imprisoning people for using is wrong.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 08:39 PM
dude, there is no way out of slavery nor any choice. I agree that imprisoning people for using is wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_negro

nic34
04-28-2014, 08:47 PM
Think progress is a very disingenuous site.

Bob, instead of pasting all that, why not simply point out whatever inaccuracies you believe think progress made. Because each of those quotes were sourced.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2014, 08:50 PM
Bob, instead of pasting all that, why not simply point out whatever inaccuracies you believe think progress made. Because each of those quotes were sourced.

Because it's tedious to vet every single article from a known biased, hack source.

nic34
04-28-2014, 08:56 PM
Keep dodging. It only reinforces your inability to address my position in an honest and intelligent manner.

I already addressed your points, you haven't shown that your examples aren't simply exceptions to actual history.

You seem caught up in this recent revisionism going on especially in southern school curriculum. Sure Jefferson's slaves had it great.... but that was far from the norm.

Captain Obvious
04-28-2014, 08:57 PM
I already addressed your points, you haven't shown that your examples aren't simply exceptions to actual history.

You seem caught up in this recent revisionism going on especially in southern school curriculum. Sure Jefferson's slaves had it great.... but that was far from the norm.

Yeah, the lucky ones got schtupped.

Mister D
04-28-2014, 08:59 PM
I already addressed your points, you haven't shown that your examples aren't simply exceptions to actual history.

You seem caught up in this recent revisionism going on especially in southern school curriculum. Sure Jefferson's slaves had it great.... but that was far from the norm.

nic, you don't appear to understand what history is or how it's produced. That said, no one is suggesting slavery was good. Do you not understand that?

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 09:11 PM
Yeah, it is.

How?


No one is better off as a slave.

How is being imprisoned for decades because you committed a non-violent offense functionally or morally any different than being a slave on a southern plantation?


I'm actually disappointed that you think otherwise.

And I'm disappointed that you can't see any nuance in my position, which I've backed up with firsthand accounts of actual slaves who had objectively more freedom and happiness than many black people rotting away in America's prison systems for decades.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 09:20 PM
I already addressed your points...

No you didn't. You didn't address a single one of them.


you haven't shown that your examples aren't simply exceptions to actual history.

My examples are history, and whether or not they were exceptions to the rule is irrelevant to my initial contention as I never argued that all black people today would be categorically better off as slaves. The majority of black people would NOT be better off as slaves, but refusing to admit that SOME would be better off is just irrational.


You seem caught up in this recent revisionism going on especially in southern school curriculum. Sure Jefferson's slaves had it great.... but that was far from the norm.

They did not have it great, but they had it better than a lot of black people rotting away in American prisons do. At least they got fresh air, fresh food, and some basic freedoms, which is better than being confined to a tiny cement box, eating highly processed corporate gruel day in and day out, and subjected to the constant threat of assault, rape, and murder by other prisoners.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 09:23 PM
Yeah, the lucky ones got schtupped.

The only one Jefferson had a relationship with was Sally Hemmings, and she and her brother were free to leave him on their trip to France where they were legally emancipated, which Jefferson would have known as a lawyer. The fact that she willingly returned to America with Jefferson suggests that their relationship was more nuanced than many would like to believe. It may not be politically correct to point that out, but I don't have the luxury of ignoring historical facts.

MrJimmyDale
04-28-2014, 09:30 PM
They did not have it great, but they had it better than a lot of black people rotting away in American prisons do. At least they got fresh air, fresh food, and some basic freedoms, which is better than being confined to a tiny cement box, eating highly processed corporate gruel day in and day out, and subjected to the constant threat of assault, rape, and murder by other prisoners.


Ain't Karma a bitch!

Alyosha
04-28-2014, 09:48 PM
Yeah, it is. No one is better off as a slave. I'm actually disappointed that you think otherwise.

Depends on how you define slavery. Muslim women in Afghanistan and the KSA have fewer rights than blacks in Virginia in 1850, but they are considered free.

Not all instances of slavery were the same, some could work off their servitude and buy their freedom, others had less options. In certain Indian tribes slaves stayed captive for a specific period of enslavement, others remained so.

I think slavery is anything that you feel coerced, trapped, or otherwise obligated beyond a real choice, but others would define it between parameters that include violence.

Slavery should be defined before one decides which is preferable.

Bob
04-28-2014, 11:05 PM
Goldwater was terribly maligned by Democrats. To learn King was party to ruining the name of this man should disturb all of the fair posters.

Goldwater believed in state rights yet also changed the AZ Guard units to non discrimination units. There was not a bone in the man's body that negros can use to claim he was racist.

Bob
04-28-2014, 11:10 PM
The only one Jefferson had a relationship with was Sally Hemmings, and she and her brother were free to leave him on their trip to France where they were legally emancipated, which Jefferson would have known as a lawyer. The fact that she willingly returned to America with Jefferson suggests that their relationship was more nuanced than many would like to believe. It may not be politically correct to point that out, but I don't have the luxury of ignoring historical facts.

Jefferson's home was a very nice home. And the slaves lived in these residences.

7055

Bob
04-28-2014, 11:14 PM
Where they show negros living in decrepit ramshackle houses, that was once they were free.

This is now they lived at Jefferson's place.

7056


And at George Washington's house

7057

More examples

7058

peoshi
04-28-2014, 11:19 PM
Did they volunteer to go to prison for using drugs? No, they did not, hence it is not a voluntary arrangement.You're kidding, right?

Does anyone "volunteer" to go to prison for anything outside of a plea bargain?

Can you actually name anyone in prison for simply "using" drugs solely for themselves with no related charges?

Do you really expect anyone to believe that you have 2 kilos of cocaine in south-central for personal use?

You seem to be confusing skin color with using drugs, one is voluntary...the other is not.

Regardless of whether you agree with drug laws or not, they used drugs of their own free will(which is the definition of voluntary) knowing it was against the law and there are penalties for breaking the law.

Ethereal
04-28-2014, 11:35 PM
You're kidding, right?

Does anyone "volunteer" to go to prison for anything outside of a plea bargain?

Can you actually name anyone in prison for simply "using" drugs solely for themselves with no related charges?

Do you really expect anyone to believe that you have 2 kilos of cocaine in south-central for personal use?

You seem to be confusing skin color with using drugs, one is voluntary...the other is not.

Regardless of whether you agree with drug laws or not, they used drugs of their own free will(which is the definition of voluntary) knowing it was against the law and there are penalties for breaking the law.

No, I'm not kidding. A choice and its attendant consequences are not voluntary if they are characterized by coercion and compulsion. That would be like saying you voluntarily choose to kill yourself if I put a gun to your head and commanded you to rape your mother but you refused. You may have had a choice and a knowledge of the consequences, but they were forced on you via the threat of violence, which means it wasn't voluntary.

peoshi
04-29-2014, 12:06 AM
No, I'm not kidding. A choice and its attendant consequences are not voluntary if they are characterized by coercion and compulsion. That would be like saying you voluntarily choose to kill yourself if I put a gun to your head and commanded you to rape your mother but you refused. You may have had a choice and a knowledge of the consequences, but they were forced on you via the threat of violence, which means it wasn't voluntary.And this relates to being imprisoned for drugs in what way?:huh:

This is the second time you have mentioned raping ones own mother, you are making up your own scenario...do you know of anyone who has had a gun put to their head and given a choice of raping their own mother, using drugs, or dying?

I'll make it easier for you...do you know of anyone who has had a gun put to their head and were told that they could either do drugs or die?

I don't necessarily agree with some of the sentences handed down but you are just getting silly.:rollseyes:

Ethereal
04-29-2014, 12:27 AM
And this relates to being imprisoned for drugs in what way?:huh:

This is the second time you have mentioned raping ones own mother, you are making up your own scenario...do you know of anyone who has had a gun put to their head and given a choice of raping their own mother, using drugs, or dying?

I'll make it easier for you...do you know of anyone who has had a gun put to their head and were told that they could either do drugs or die?

I don't necessarily agree with some of the sentences handed down but you are just getting silly.:rollseyes:

It's an analogy that uses a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point, so it doesn't matter if it ever happened or how likely it is to happen. All that matters is that it is similar in some respects and different in other, less fundamental respects to the situation under discussion. In both situations, there are choices and consequences associated with those choices, and in both situations, the choices and their attendant consequences are imposed on the individual via some external source of coercion and compulsion. In one case, it is the state and its agents, and in the other, it is someone holding a gun to your head. The point is that when you make a choice under the threat of violence and intimidation, it's not truly voluntary. A voluntary choice is one that is made free of coercion and compulsion.

peoshi
04-29-2014, 12:44 AM
It's an analogy that uses a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point, so it doesn't matter if it ever happened or how likely it is to happen. So if it has never happened and is not likely to happen what do you base your argument or hypothesis on?

Ethereal
04-29-2014, 01:04 AM
So if it has never happened and is not likely to happen what do you base your argument or hypothesis on?

My argument is simply that a voluntary choice is one that is made free of coercion and compulsion.

peoshi
04-29-2014, 01:11 AM
My argument is simply that a voluntary choice is one that is made free of coercion and compulsion.That's good...and I agree with you, but you have provided no evidence that the people in question were coerced or compelled.

Ethereal
04-29-2014, 01:13 AM
That's good...and I agree with you to some extent, but you have no evidence that these people were coerced or compelled.

You don't consider the threat of imprisonment to be a form of coercion and compulsion?

peoshi
04-29-2014, 01:24 AM
You don't consider the threat of imprisonment to be a form of coercion and compulsion?You don't think knowingly breaking the law is a voluntary decision?

How does the threat of imprisonment coerce you into doing something you know can result in you being imprisoned?:huh:

Ethereal
04-29-2014, 01:27 AM
You don't think knowingly breaking the law is a voluntary decision?

How does the threat of imprisonment coerce you into doing something you know can result in you being imprisoned?:huh:

Is the threat of imprisonment a form of coercion or compulsion, yes or no?

peoshi
04-29-2014, 01:37 AM
Is the threat of imprisonment a form of coercion or compulsion, yes or no?

Do you honestly think that threatening you with prison for doing drugs is coercing you to do them?

No.

If you are threatened with imprisonment for refusing to testify against others that is a different animal but that is not what we are discussing.

Ethereal
04-29-2014, 01:52 AM
Do you honestly think that threatening you with prison for doing drugs is coercing you to do them?

No.

If you are threatened with imprisonment for refusing to testify against others that is a different animal but that is not what we are discussing.

It's a simple question. Your refusal to answer it speaks volumes.

peoshi
04-29-2014, 02:04 AM
It's a simple question. Your refusal to answer it speaks volumes.I did answer it...what do you think No means?

Ethereal
04-29-2014, 02:09 AM
I did answer it...what do you think No means?

So, in your opinion, threatening to imprison someone is not a form of coercion or compulsion? I think I'm beginning to see the problem here.

peoshi
04-29-2014, 02:19 AM
So, in your opinion, threatening to imprison someone is not a form of coercion or compulsion? I think I'm beginning to see the problem here.And in your opinion, threatening someone with imprisonment for breaking the law is forcing them to break the law, I don't think you do see the problem here.

Ethereal
04-29-2014, 02:45 AM
And in your opinion, threatening someone with imprisonment for breaking the law is forcing them to break the law...

I did not say or imply that. I will put it as simply as possible for you.

Premise one: A choice is a decision between two or more options (ex. using drugs or not using drugs).
Premise two: A voluntary choice is one made free from coercion or compulsion.
Premise three: The threat of imprisonment is a form of coercion or compulsion.
Premise four: The decision to use drugs is punishable by imprisonment.
Conclusion: The decision between using drugs and not using drugs is not a voluntary choice.

My premises are true and my conclusion follows from my premises, ergo the conclusion is valid.

Your confusion arises from the conflation of a particular decision (using drugs) with the actual choice (the decision between using drugs or not using drugs). I may decide to use drugs or to not use drugs, but the choice itself is not free from coercion or compulsion, which means it is not truly voluntary.


I don't think you do see the problem here.

No, the problem is quite clear to me.

peoshi
04-29-2014, 03:12 AM
I did not say or imply that. I will put it as simply as possible for you.I may decide to use drugs or to not use drugs, but the choice itself is not free from coercion or compulsion, which means it is not truly voluntary. Really? And you accuse me of not knowing what words mean?

You do realize you are contradicting yourself, don't you?

If you alone decide whether or not to use drugs then how are you being forced to use them? And how is it not voluntary?

Definition of voluntary (adj)Bing Dictionary


vol·un·tar·y
[ vóllən tèrree ]




of free will: arising, acting, or resulting from somebody's own choice or decision rather than because of external pressure or force




Definition of compulsion (n)

Bing Dictionary


com·pul·sion
[ kəm púlshən ]



force: a force that makes somebody do something
compelling: an act of compelling or the state of being compelled
psychological force: a psychological and usually irrational force that makes somebody do something, often unwillingly


Definition of coerce (vt)

Bing Dictionary


co·erce
[ kō úrss ]



force somebody: to make somebody do something against his or her will by using force or threats

Ravi
04-29-2014, 05:36 AM
Depends on how you define slavery. Muslim women in Afghanistan and the KSA have fewer rights than blacks in Virginia in 1850, but they are considered free.

Not all instances of slavery were the same, some could work off their servitude and buy their freedom, others had less options. In certain Indian tribes slaves stayed captive for a specific period of enslavement, others remained so.

I think slavery is anything that you feel coerced, trapped, or otherwise obligated beyond a real choice, but others would define it between parameters that include violence.

Slavery should be defined before one decides which is preferable.
We were discussing slavery in the USA back before the emancipation proclamation. You may not be familiar with it, but as a nation we enslaved black people. And once again, people on welfare would not be better off as slaves no matter what color their skin is.

Akula
04-29-2014, 05:57 AM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/22/how-chicago-became-chiraq.html


...but..but...a white man said something we don't like..Now THAT'S important!

Chris
04-29-2014, 06:19 AM
We were discussing slavery in the USA back before the emancipation proclamation. You may not be familiar with it, but as a nation we enslaved black people. And once again, people on welfare would not be better off as slaves no matter what color their skin is.


And that's fine as your opinion, which others, who don't limit the comparison to just welfare and who don't make broad overgeneralizations about blacks as a whole, do not share.

And just as your opinion shouldn't be taken as justifying welfare, imprisonment, fatherless families, high violent crime, etc, so too others' opinions should not be taken as justifying slavery.

Cigar
04-29-2014, 09:17 AM
Their world is slowly slipping away :laugh:

Chris
04-29-2014, 09:36 AM
Their world is slowly slipping away :laugh:


So is yours, cigar. You're getting old.