Kerry: I Didn't Call Israel an "Apartheid State"

[Mr. Mensch]

In case you missed it yesterday, the Daily Beast's Josh Rogin reported on comments made by Secretary of State John Kerry saying that if Israel doesn't come to a two-state agreement with the Palestinians, it will become an apartheid state (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html). Kerry also said Israel needed a change in leadership.
The secretary of state said that if Israel doesn’t make peace soon, it could become ‘an apartheid state,’ like the old South Africa. Jewish leaders are fuming over the comparison.If there’s no two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict soon, Israel risks becoming “an apartheid state,” Secretary of State John Kerry told a room of influential world leaders in a closed-door meeting Friday.Senior American officials have rarely, if ever, used the term "apartheid" in reference to Israel, and President Obama has previously rejected the idea that the word should apply to Jewish State. Kerry's use of the loaded term is already rankling Jewish leaders in America—and it could attract unwanted attention in Israel, as well. Now Kerry is walking back his comments and even flat out denying he even made the "apartheid" comment in a statement released last night by the State Department. In the same statement denying the comments, Kerry said he should have used different words to describe the situation. He also berated critics for daring to question his support for the Jewish State.


http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/04/29/john-kerry-back-tracks-i-probably-shouldnt-have-used-apartheid-state-to-describe-israel-n1830836

I didn't think it was possible, but Ketchup Boy is a worse Secretary of State than Hilldog. Guess he will be running for president as well.

[Matty]

It's the Obama doctrine.

[Green Arrow]

I think it's sad that Israel has such powerful sway over our government, to the point where truth is shunned simply because it makes Israel angry.

[patrickt]

Sadly liberals hate Jews. John Kerry is a quintessential liberal. In our government truth is usually shunned but it has nothing to do with Jews. It wasn't Jews who forced all the lies of Obamacare, was it? Sadly, Jews don't have near the power in our government as the communist do.

[Common Sense]

sadly liberals hate jews. John kerry is a quintessential liberal. In our government truth is usually shunned but it has nothing to do with jews. It wasn't jews who forced all the lies of obamacare, was it? Sadly, jews don't have near the power in our government as the communist do.

lol...

[zelmo1234]

I think it's sad that Israel has such powerful sway over our government, to the point where truth is shunned simply because it makes Israel angry.

Why does Israel have to give up land they took from people that wanted to destroy them and give it back to people that have in their constitution the goal of driving Israel into the sea?

Why is Israel the only country that is subject to about 1000 rocket attacks every year, yet they are the bad guy if the move to stop the attacks?

I just don't get it!

[Green Arrow]

Sadly liberals hate Jews. John Kerry is a quintessential liberal. In our government truth is usually shunned but it has nothing to do with Jews. It wasn't Jews who forced all the lies of Obamacare, was it? Sadly, Jews don't have near the power in our government as the communist do.

How can liberals hate Jews when many of them ARE Jews?

[Mr. Mensch]

I think it's sad that Israel has such powerful sway over our government, to the point where truth is shunned simply because it makes Israel angry.

It's all part of the world wide conspiracy, you know. You gentiles just need to do as you are told.

[Green Arrow]

Why does Israel have to give up land they took from people that wanted to destroy them and give it back to people that have in their constitution the goal of driving Israel into the sea?

Why is Israel the only country that is subject to about 1000 rocket attacks every year, yet they are the bad guy if the move to stop the attacks?

I just don't get it!

I don't care. I don't care at all. I just resent the fact that loyalty to America is secondary to loyalty to Israel for far too many Americans.

[Green Arrow]

It's all part of the world wide conspiracy, you know. You gentiles just need to do as you are told.

It's not a "world wide conspiracy." The other nations just follow the U.S.'s lead.

[zelmo1234]

I don't care. I don't care at all. I just resent the fact that loyalty to America is secondary to loyalty to Israel for far too many Americans.

Well at least you are honest and in my book that counts for a lot!

[Mr. Mensch]

I don't care. I don't care at all. I just resent the fact that loyalty to America is secondary to loyalty to Israel for far too many Americans.

The U.S.being an ally of Israel is the only thing keeping them from mopping the floor with their Arab neighbors. We don't want a war in the Middle East because of the oil. Keeping Israel under our thumb is one way to do that.

[Mr. Mensch]

It's not a "world wide conspiracy." The other nations just follow the U.S.'s lead.

Then it's working. We have you fooled!

[Green Arrow]

The U.S.being an ally of Israel is the only thing keeping them from mopping the floor with their Arab neighbors. We don't want a war in the Middle East because of the oil. Keeping Israel under our thumb is one way to do that.

From where I stand, we are not the ones in control. Particularly now, with the feckless leadership of Obama and Kerry.

If we really had Israel under our thumb, we'd tell them they aren't getting another cent in foreign aid until they make peace with the Palestinians and keep it. Do that, and you bet your ass they'd get in line real quick.

[Matty]

I think it's sad that Israel has such powerful sway over our government, to the point where truth is shunned simply because it makes Israel angry.
I think it's a shame that a US Secretary of State would insult a democracy and an ally in such a manner.

[Mr. Mensch]

From where I stand, we are not the ones in control. Particularly now, with the feckless leadership of Obama and Kerry.

If we really had Israel under our thumb, we'd tell them they aren't getting another cent in foreign aid until they make peace with the Palestinians and keep it. Do that, and you bet your ass they'd get in line real quick.

Problem is that the Palestinians do not want peace. They want Israel eliminated and have stated this publicly.

[Mr. Mensch]

I think it's a shame that a US Secretary of State would insult a democracy and an ally in such a manner.

Funny how the Obama administration apologizes to countries that they shouldn't and insults others. Someone needs to send them back to diplomacy 101.

[Green Arrow]

Problem is that they Palestinians do not want peace. They want Israel eliminated and have stated this publicly.

One faction, Hamas. Abbas' faction has always pushed for peace. But what Hamas wants is clear: their own state with half of Jerusalem.

[Matty]

Why does Israel have to give up land they took from people that wanted to destroy them and give it back to people that have in their constitution the goal of driving Israel into the sea?

Why is Israel the only country that is subject to about 1000 rocket attacks every year, yet they are the bad guy if the move to stop the attacks?

I just don't get it!
Liberals won't miss Israel, they would be fine if she ceases to exist even if it means another genocide.

[Matty]

Problem is that they Palestinians do not want peace. They want Israel eliminated and have stated this publicly.
It's in their charter.

[zelmo1234]

From where I stand, we are not the ones in control. Particularly now, with the feckless leadership of Obama and Kerry.

If we really had Israel under our thumb, we'd tell them they aren't getting another cent in foreign aid until they make peace with the Palestinians and keep it. Do that, and you bet your ass they'd get in line real quick.

That is a really hard decision to make, when the only way that you can have peace is to die!

Not something most people are going to choose

[Green Arrow]

I think it's a shame that a US Secretary of State would insult a democracy and an ally in such a manner.

He didn't insult them. He told a hard truth. Running from it just because it makes you uncomfortable won't help anyone.

[Matty]

Funny how the Obama administration apologizes to countries that they shouldn't and insults others. Someone needs to send them back to diplomacy 101.
Obama told us early on that he would stand with the Muslims.

[Green Arrow]

That is a really hard decision to make, when the only way that you can have peace is to die!

Not something most people are going to choose

I don't buy the sensationalist rhetoric that Israel's only choices are to lay down and die or be a militaristic nightmare.

[Common Sense]

Obama told us early on that he would stand with the Muslims.

...because he is a secret Muslim, right?

[zelmo1234]

He didn't insult them. He told a hard truth. Running from it just because it makes you uncomfortable won't help anyone.

I have to call a little BS here. If he had made the comment on some Muslim State that does not allow for any other religion under the penalty of death, the left would be calling for his head!

[Green Arrow]

I have to call a little BS here. If he had made the comment on some Muslim State that does not allow for any other religion under the penalty of death, the left would be calling for his head!

I don't care about the partisan bullshit, zelmo. What he said was true, end of story.

[zelmo1234]

...because he is a secret Muslim, right?

Where did you get that?

He does it because like all leftist he thinks that if we are nice to people and agree with them, they won't want to kill us

He has not clue that there could be other issues

[zelmo1234]

I don't care about the partisan bullshit, zelmo. What he said was true, end of story.

Then you would agree that we should be in Iraq and Afghanistan forcing them to accept other religions and cultures? Because of course this would be TRUE? Right?

[Matty]

One faction, Hamas. Abbas' faction has always pushed for peace. But what Hamas wants is clear: their own state with half of Jerusalem.
Abbas this week decided to stand with Hamas against Isreal. Netanyahu announced no chance for peace talks under that alliance. Did you miss that?

[Mr. Mensch]

Obama told us early on that he would stand with the Muslims.

That's because he feels more kinship with them than he does with other people.

[1751_Texan]

Anyone that disagrees with the governentment of Israel's positions hates jews like anyone that disagrees with Obama's positions hates Americans? How does that make sense?

[zelmo1234]

Abbas this week decided to stand with Hamas against Isreal. Netanyahu announced no chance for peace talks under that alliance. Did you miss that?

That is OK they are only Jews to the left!

[Matty]

...because he is a secret Muslim, right?
I don't know why he said it, just that he said it.

[Mr. Mensch]

Anyone that disagrees with the governentment of Israel's positions hates jews like anyone that disagrees with Obama's positions hates Americans? How does that make sense?

Well, there are still a lot of people in this world who hate Jews for one reason or another. The same goes for Americans. I can think of one big reason - jealousy.

[zelmo1234]

Anyone that disagrees with the governentment of Israel's positions hates jews like anyone that disagrees with Obama's positions hates Americans? How does that make sense?

Here is the thing? If the Palestinians wanted peace in the middle east? they could have peace tomorrow.


but they don't if they get close to an agreement they will ramp up the attacks

[Matty]

I don't care about the partisan bullshit, zelmo. What he said was true, end of story.
No it isn't. End of story.

[Green Arrow]

Then you would agree that we should be in Iraq and Afghanistan forcing them to accept other religions and cultures? Because of course this would be TRUE? Right?

What the hell are you talking about?

[Green Arrow]

Abbas this week decided to stand with Hamas against Isreal. Netanyahu announced no chance for peace talks under that alliance. Did you miss that?

Unfortunately, no. I live in America. If an Israeli ties his shoes, we hear about it.

[Common Sense]

I don't know why he said it, just that he said it.

...but he didn't really say that. It doesn't matter though. You hear what you want to.

[zelmo1234]

What the hell are you talking about?

Well I just thought that you were supporting the policy of forcing Israel to give land and independent status to a group that will use that to bring in more powerful weapons to kill more jews, so you would be supporting the US intervention so that the government's of Iraq and Afghanistan don't discriminate against others too? Or is that different?

[Green Arrow]

No it isn't. End of story.

It is true. History has proven it true. Any time in history a state was created for only one race of people, the minority race was always treated like second class citizens. It happened in South Africa, it happened in Nazi Germany, it happened in Rwanda. You're naive if you think a unity state in Israel won't turn into apartheid. Even Israeli politicians have said the same.

[Matty]

...but he didn't really say that. It doesn't matter though. You hear what you want to.
Yes he did say that!

[Mr. Mensch]

I noticed that the thread has diverged from the main point of whether or not Kerry called Israel an apartheid state or not. It is obvious that he did and is now trying to back track on his comments. You would think someone that has been in this line of work for as long as he has would stop to think before saying something like that. If it was Biden, I would expect it. Kerry is supposed to be smarter than that. Apparently not!

[1751_Texan]

Where did you get that?

He does it because like all leftist he thinks that if we are nice to people and agree with them, they won't want to kill us

He has not clue that there could be other issues

what is the alternative. We have been negotiating this mess through Carter, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and now obama.

As I used to tell my boss, if there a simple solution, I would have chosen it.

[Green Arrow]

Well I just thought that you were supporting the policy of forcing Israel to give land and independent status to a group that will use that to bring in more powerful weapons to kill more jews, so you would be supporting the US intervention so that the government's of Iraq and Afghanistan don't discriminate against others too? Or is that different?

I support the policy of Fucking Stop. Fucking Stop sending billions of dollars in aid a year to Israel when millions of American adults are homeless, millions of American children rot in orphanages, and millions of American veterans are abandoned by our government. Fucking Stop sending weapons to Israel. Fucking Stop hurting our interests abroad by getting into stupid conflicts that don't benefit us, but benefit Israel. Fucking Stop making loyalty to Israel a qualification for holding public office in America. That's the policy I support.

And for the record, my Fucking Stop policy goes for all foreign nations, not just Israel.

[Common Sense]

Yes he did say that!

It's fit for a different thread, but if you get your facts from right wing emails, then yes...he said it. If you get your facts from reality....


http://www.factcheck.org/2008/06/obamas-dreams-of-my-father/

[Green Arrow]

I noticed that the thread has diverged from the main point of whether or not Kerry called Israel an apartheid state or not. It is obvious that he did and is now trying to back track on his comments. You would think someone that has been in this line of work for as long as he has would stop to think before saying something like that. If it was Biden, I would expect it. Kerry is supposed to be smarter than that. Apparently not!

I spoke on that already. Of course he said it, but Israel has such a stranglehold on our government that hell is raised and beds are shit in when an American politician says what Israeli politicians of high rank have also said.

[zelmo1234]

I noticed that the thread has diverged from the main point of whether or not Kerry called Israel an apartheid state or not. It is obvious that he did and is now trying to back track on his comments. You would think someone that has been in this line of work for as long as he has would stop to think before saying something like that. If it was Biden, I would expect it. Kerry is supposed to be smarter than that. Apparently not!

But he is from the left, so even though he said it, they will rally to him because that is not what he meant????

Only the left are not held accountable for their words in this country

And Kerry did serve in Vietnam you know? :)

[Mr. Mensch]

But he is from the left, so even though he said it, they will rally to him because that is not what he meant????

Only the left are not held accountable for their words in this country

And Kerry did serve in Vietnam you know? :)

Yes, I knew he served, but I am not sure how that would affect his ability to make comments.

[zelmo1234]

Yes, I knew he served, but I am not sure how that would affect his ability to make comments.

I was just pointing out that he is on the left in this country, he will not be held accountable for his words?

Only the right is held accountable for their words and actions. the left? not so much!

[Green Arrow]

I was just pointing out that he is on the left in this country, he will not be held accountable for his words?

Only the right is held accountable for their words and actions. the left? not so much!

The only reason he walked it back is because the Israelis made a stink about it, even though their own high-ranking politicians said the same thing.

[Matty]

It is true. History has proven it true. Any time in history a state was created for only one race of people, the minority race was always treated like second class citizens. It happened in South Africa, it happened in Nazi Germany, it happened in Rwanda. You're naive if you think a unity state in Israel won't turn into apartheid. Even Israeli politicians have said the same.
Have you ever been to Israel?

[Green Arrow]

Have you ever been to Israel?

Yes. I lived there for almost two years. Have you?

[Matty]

Yes. I lived there for almost two years. Have you?
No, but I have visited. How did you come to live there?

[Green Arrow]

No, but I have visited. How did you come to live there?

I met a Messianic Jewish couple at my parents' church who made frequent and lengthy trips to Israel. Listening to their stories and growing up staunchly Evangelical, I was fascinated by Israeli culture and history. They became like a pair of surrogate grandparents to me. When they went on a two year trip to Israel, they offered to let me come with them. My parents said yes, so I went. Ended up converting to Judaism while I was there.

[Matty]

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/09/why-would-israel-give-up-territory-after-gaza/244995/

[Kabuki Joe]

Sadly liberals hate Jews. John Kerry is a quintessential liberal. In our government truth is usually shunned but it has nothing to do with Jews. It wasn't Jews who forced all the lies of Obamacare, was it? Sadly, Jews don't have near the power in our government as the communist do.


...and who's the biggest force behind liberal politics?...the Jews...

[Kabuki Joe]

How can liberals hate Jews when many of them ARE Jews?


...because "jewish" is also a religion, and we know how you liberals hate religion...

[Kabuki Joe]

From where I stand, we are not the ones in control. Particularly now, with the feckless leadership of Obama and Kerry.

If we really had Israel under our thumb, we'd tell them they aren't getting another cent in foreign aid until they make peace with the Palestinians and keep it. Do that, and you bet your ass they'd get in line real quick.


...so let me get this straight, bullying at school is bad, but bullying other nations is good?...

[Green Arrow]

...because "jewish" is also a religion, and we know how you liberals hate religion...

Most liberals are religious. Oddly enough, it's actually conservatism where you find a growing number of atheists.

[Green Arrow]

...so let me get this straight, bullying at school is bad, but bullying other nations is good?...

How is it bullying to tell someone they have to earn our money?

[KC]

Israel has four options. It can 1) push for a two state solution, 2) become a binational secular democratic state, 3) embrace the status quo or 4) become an apartheid state. Numbers two and four are not popular with Israelis. Number one is not viable. Number three is the most attractive and most likely outcome.

[patrickt]

How can liberals hate Jews when many of them ARE Jews?

Gee, I don't know Green Arrow. How could some Jews cooperate with the Nazis in shipping other Jews to death camps? Why do so many blacks support the leftists when the leftists are obviously intent on keeping blacks uneducated, unemployed and living in ghettos? Why do so many Jews support a man who attended an anti-Semitic church for 20 years and calls the anti-Semitic preacher a mentor? Why do Jews who marched for civil rights in the face of rabid Democrat racists now prefer to be Democrats who are still racists? Why do some Jews who fought for civil rights for blacks now support Democrats who demand racial discrimination?

People are not always rational, Green Arrow.

No, John Kerry didn't say Israel was an apartheid state. He also didn't say Israel was solely responsible for the failure of the phony "peace" agreement. And, President Obama never said that if you liked your health insurance you could keep your health insurance.

[Kabuki Joe]

How is it bullying to tell someone they have to earn our money?

...blackmail then...neither is acceptable...if you want to end support to them, just end it, don't force them with bribery or blackmail or bullying...just say no, and be done with it...

[Kabuki Joe]

Israel has four options. It can 1) push for a two state solution, 2) become a binational secular democratic state, 3) embrace the status quo or 4) become an apartheid state. Numbers two and four are not popular with Israelis. Number one is not viable. Number three is the most attractive and most likely outcome.

...it's none of our business what they choose...does it give you wood thinking about dictating what another nation does?...are you planning out how to fix the whole of Africa as well?...let's see your plans on that...

[Green Arrow]

Gee, I don't know Green Arrow. How could some Jews cooperate with the Nazis in shipping other Jews to death camps? Why do so many blacks support the leftists when the leftists are obviously intent on keeping blacks uneducated, unemployed and living in ghettos? Why do so many Jews support a man who attended an anti-Semitic church for 20 years and calls the anti-Semitic preacher a mentor? Why do Jews who marched for civil rights in the face of rabid Democrat racists now prefer to be Democrats who are still racists? Why do some Jews who fought for civil rights for blacks now support Democrats who demand racial discrimination?

People are not always rational, Green Arrow.

No, John Kerry didn't say Israel was an apartheid state. He also didn't say Israel was solely responsible for the failure of the phony "peace" agreement. And, President Obama never said that if you liked your health insurance you could keep your health insurance.

There's a difference between being irrational and hating yourself.

[KC]

...it's none of our business what they choose...does it give you wood thinking about dictating what another nation does?...are you planning out how to fix the whole of Africa as well?...let's see your plans on that...

Who said anything about dictating what any other nation does? Does it give you wood? Are you that small minded?

[Green Arrow]

...blackmail then...neither is acceptable...if you want to end support to them, just end it, don't force them with bribery or blackmail or bullying...just say no, and be done with it...

It's not blackmail either. That's like saying it's blackmail for an employer to demand that his employee does his job before he gets paid.

[Kabuki Joe]

Who said anything about dictating what any other nation does. Does it give you wood? Are you that small minded?


...actually I don't care what Israel does...or any other nation in the world...as an American, it's none of my business...

[Libhater]

Sadly liberals hate Jews. John Kerry is a quintessential liberal. In our government truth is usually shunned but it has nothing to do with Jews. It wasn't Jews who forced all the lies of Obamacare, was it? Sadly, Jews don't have near the power in our government as the communist do.

What you're missing here Pat, is the fact that its the jews who represent most of the American communists of today; just like
it was the jewish leadership who comprised the majority of those who slaughtered ten of millions of Christians during the Bolshevik
Revolution in Russia.

[KC]

...actually I don't care what Israel does...or any other nation in the world...as an American, it's none of my business...

That's also small minded. It affects you too.

[Kabuki Joe]

That's also small minded. It affects you too.


...is that how you justify meddling in other people's affairs?...Hitler has a friend in you...

[KC]

...is that how you justify meddling in other people's affairs?...Hitler has a friend in you...

And the reductio ad hitlerum, the crutch of the small minded! Please point out where I advocated meddling in other's affairs.

[patrickt]

How is it bullying to tell someone they have to earn our money?

My god, are you talking about people on the dole?

[Green Arrow]

My god, are you talking about people on the dole?

Yes, I'm talking about nations like Israel that are on the dole.

[patrickt]

There's a difference between being irrational and hating yourself.

How true. Being irrational is a reality. Self-hatred is liberal bullshit.

[Kabuki Joe]

It's not blackmail either. That's like saying it's blackmail for an employer to demand that his employee does his job before he gets paid.


...well, according to sage that's slavery...

[Kabuki Joe]

And the reductio ad hitlerum, the crutch of the small minded! Please point out where I advocated meddling in other's affairs.


That's also small minded. It affects you too.

...you and Hitler have LARGE minds and want to get involved with things that affect them...what Hitler did was just got involved...like you want to do...

[Green Arrow]

Benghazi :riot:

Dude, get the fuck out of this thread. You're off-topic.

[Green Arrow]

...you and Hitler have LARGE minds and want to get involved with things that affect them...what Hitler did was just got involved...like you want to do...

This is flaming. Cease and desist.

[Kabuki Joe]

This is flaming. Cease and desist.


...it's not flaming, dictating what other nations SHOULD DO, is meddling...Hitler meddled, didn't he?...Stalin meddled, didn't he?...and what you and KFC are doing is saying we should meddle in Israel's affairs and I'm saying we shouldn't...it's none of our business what Israel does...

[Common Sense]

...it's not flaming, dictating what other nations SHOULD DO, is meddling...Hitler meddled, didn't he?...Stalin meddled, didn't he?...and what you and KFC are doing is saying we should meddle in Israel's affairs and I'm saying we shouldn't...it's none of our business what Israel does...

Except for the fact that the US funds Israel to the tune of billions a year.

[Green Arrow]

...it's not flaming, dictating what other nations SHOULD DO, is meddling...Hitler meddled, didn't he?...Stalin meddled, didn't he?...and what you and KFC are doing is saying we should meddle in Israel's affairs and I'm saying we shouldn't...it's none of our business what Israel does...

No, you just have poor reading comprehension. I don't think we ahould meddle with them at all. Hence the repeated use of the phrase "fucking stop."

[KC]

...it's not flaming, dictating what other nations SHOULD DO, is meddling...Hitler meddled, didn't he?...Stalin meddled, didn't he?...and what you and KFC are doing is saying we should meddle in Israel's affairs and I'm saying we shouldn't...it's none of our business what Israel does...

Oh man! KFC! Clever! No, seriously.

No, I'm not. I'm saying Israel has four options. That much is clear and recognized by Israeli citizens, Palestinian refugees and Knesset and PA authorities. I'm not saying that the US, UN or any other outside body ought to force it to embrace any one of those options. If you want to have a meaningful discussion about which of those policies would be the best course for Israel going forward we can talk about that.

[Kabuki Joe]

Except for the fact that the US funds Israel to the tune of billions a year.


...yup, pretty much...and that gives the US a reason to dictate how they run their nation?...

[Kabuki Joe]

No, you just have poor reading comprehension. I don't think we ahould meddle with them at all. Hence the repeated use of the phrase "fucking stop."


...and that's not meddling in their affairs?...cutting off funding because you don't like what they do?...that's meddling giving them money in the first place and meddling when you cut if off for reasons that are none of our business...do you treat your friends like this, give and take money away for your personal reasons?...

[Green Arrow]

...and that's not meddling in their affairs?...cutting off funding because you don't like what they do?...that's meddling giving them money in the first place and meddling when you cut if off for reasons that are none of our business...do you treat your friends like this, give and take money away for your personal reasons?...

It's my money. I can do whatever I goddamn please with it. It's not meddling to decide they are not entitled to my money.

[Cigar]

Dude, get the fuck out of this thread. You're off-topic.

Is that a request or an order ... ? Either-way I'm not taking either sport.

My opinion is the Right NEEDS a Benghazi Scandal for everything ...

It's not necessary that you agree with all debates, but whining is UN-Manly

[Kabuki Joe]

Oh man! KFC! Clever! No, seriously.

No, I'm not. I'm saying Israel has four options. That much is clear and recognized by Israeli citizens, Palestinian refugees and Knesset and PA authorities. I'm not saying that the US, UN or any other outside body ought to force it to embrace any one of those options. If you want to have a meaningful discussion about which of those policies would be the best course for Israel going forward we can talk about that.


...oh, so now you want me to discuss what Israel should do?...did you miss me saying it's none of my business what Israel does?...no, you said I was small minded for this...I'm scratching my head over you...

[Green Arrow]

Is that a request or an order ... ? Either-way I'm not taking either sport.

My opinion is the Right NEEDS a Benghazi Scandal for everything ...

It's not necessary that you agree with all debates, but whining is UN-Manly

It's an advisement that off-topic posts, especially ones that exist only for the purpose of trolling, are bad faith. Bad faith is against the rules. Connect the dots.

[Kabuki Joe]

It's my money. I can do whatever I goddamn please with it. It's not meddling to decide they are not entitled to my money.


...it is when you tell them they need to make changes in their lifestyle that are none of your business...if you don't want to give them money, don't, but don't give them money with conditions attached...

[KC]

...oh, so now you want me to discuss what Israel should do?...did you miss me saying it's none of my business what Israel does?...no, you said I was small minded for this...I'm scratching my head over you...

:rollseyes: Poor KJ. I'll leave you alone.

[Mr. Mensch]

AP Reporter Rips State Department Over Kerry's Apartheid Comments


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVGFNAGDwZA

[Cigar]

It's an advisement that off-topic posts, especially ones that exist only for the purpose of trolling, are bad faith. Bad faith is against the rules. Connect the dots.

My opinion and motives of the Right are different than yours ... you're have to just deal wit it.

No story here in my opinion, just another Benghazi circle jerk

[Kabuki Joe]

:rollseyes: Poor KJ. I'll leave you alone.


...oh, it's not on my account, it's on yours...you just don't get simple ideas...**head scratching**

[Green Arrow]

My opinion and motives of the Right are different than yours ... you're have to just deal wit it.

No story here in my opinion, just another Benghazi circle jerk

Benghazi is not the topic of this thread, and was not being talked about until you brought it up to flame, which is your style.

[Cigar]

Benghazi is not the topic of this thread, and was not being talked about until you brought it up to flame, which is your style.

Give it a few hours, everything ends up at Benghazi with the Right :laugh:

[Green Arrow]

...it is when you tell them they need to make changes in their lifestyle that are none of your business...if you don't want to give them money, don't, but don't give them money with conditions attached...

That's just stupid. It's my fucking money, I have a right to make sure that I get what I pay for. No country should just give money away and not expect some return. That would be the height of stupidity. Next, you're going to tell me that employers should stop forcing their employees to work for their paychecks, lest they "meddle" in their employees' lives.

[Green Arrow]

Give it a few hours, everything ends up at Benghazi with the Right :laugh:

No, it doesn't. You're trolling for a Benghazi response, and I'm not going to let you derail another thread.

[Cigar]

That's just stupid. It's my fucking money, I have a right to make sure that I get what I pay for. No country should just give money away and not expect some return. That would be the height of stupidity. Next, you're going to tell me that employers should stop forcing their employees to work for their paychecks, lest they "meddle" in their employees' lives.

They are Employees now :laugh:

[Kabuki Joe]

That's just stupid. It's my fucking money, I have a right to make sure that I get what I pay for. No country should just give money away and not expect some return. That would be the height of stupidity. Next, you're going to tell me that employers should stop forcing their employees to work for their paychecks, lest they "meddle" in their employees' lives.

...are you that simple?...if you are giving money along with conditions, then you are being disingenuous...plain and simple...either give them the money free of conditions or don't give them the money...this is my issue...it's pretty simple...

[Green Arrow]

...are you that simple?...if you are giving money along with conditions, then you are being disingenuous...plain and simple...either give them the money free of conditions or don't give them the money...this is my issue...it's pretty simple...

Your issue is ridiculous. Again, should an employer pay his employees whether they work or not?

[Kabuki Joe]

Your issue is ridiculous. Again, should an employer pay his employees whether they work or not?


...the US employs Israel?...

[The Sage of Main Street]

If we really had Israel under our thumb, we'd tell them they aren't getting another cent in foreign aid until they make peace with the Palestinians and keep it. Do that, and you bet your ass they'd get in line real quick.

You mean bet your gas--Zyklon B.

All Muslime are Nazislamis. We have submissively backed down from the rabid Arab rabble and cowardly appeased them ever since the illegal 1973 oil embargo by jihadist OPEC.

[Peter1469]

You mean bet your gas--Zyklon B.

All Muslime are Nazislamis. We have submissively backed down from the rabid Arab rabble and cowardly appeased them ever since the illegal 1973 oil embargo by jihadist OPEC.

The Baathist movement was modeled on the NAZIs. They played that down after WWII.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Well, there are still a lot of people in this world who hate Jews for one reason or another. The same goes for Americans. I can think of one big reason - jealousy.


No, it is cowardice. The Buttboys of the Bosses won't stand up to the corporate bullies and the guillotine-fodder Heirheads, so they have to blame the consequences of the peasant slavishness on some invisible conspiracy behind the scenes. Anti-Semitism Always Leaves a Yellow Stain.

[The Sage of Main Street]

It is true. History has proven it true. Any time in history a state was created for only one race of people, the minority race was always treated like second class citizens. It happened in South Africa, it happened in Nazi Germany, it happened in Rwanda. You're naive if you think a unity state in Israel won't turn into apartheid. Even Israeli politicians have said the same. The Palestinians should all be deported to Jordan. If the King doesn't want them, the Mossad should get rid of him.

[The Sage of Main Street]

I support the policy of Fucking Stop. Fucking Stop sending billions of dollars in aid a year to Israel when millions of American adults are homeless, millions of American children rot in orphanages, and millions of American veterans are abandoned by our government. Fucking Stop sending weapons to Israel. Fucking Stop hurting our interests abroad by getting into stupid conflicts that don't benefit us, but benefit Israel. Fucking Stop making loyalty to Israel a qualification for holding public office in America. That's the policy I support.

And for the record, my Fucking Stop policy goes for all foreign nations, not just Israel.

The OPEC-financed jihad for world domination approves of your message. Israel Is Our Shield.

[The Sage of Main Street]

I was just pointing out that he is on the left in this country, he will not be held accountable for his words?

Only the right is held accountable for their words and actions. the left? not so much!

Ah, the sweet whine of the persecution complex served chilled at the pity party for plutocrats' puppets.

[The Sage of Main Street]

...well, according to sage that's slavery... The employee gets paid with the money he makes for the employer. It's like someone sticking you up for your wallet, but letting you keep the one-dollar bills.

[Peter1469]

The Palestinians should all be deported to Jordan. If the King doesn't want them, the Mossad should get rid of him.

Exactly (the first part). They should be expelled to the east bank of the Jordan river.

[The Sage of Main Street]

That's just stupid. It's my fucking money, I have a right to make sure that I get what I pay for. No country should just give money away and not expect some return. That would be the height of stupidity. Next, you're going to tell me that employers should stop forcing their employees to work for their paychecks, lest they "meddle" in their employees' lives. Israel, even when it was only the Homeland promised after World War I, has always been a decoy to divert the jihad. Would you prefer to meet that head on and wage total war against Islam? I would, but I understand history and you understand only what your intellectual nannies tell you is the world situation.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Your issue is ridiculous. Again, should an employer pay his employees whether they work or not? Israel has worked for us. If it wasn't for their shield, the Muslim horde would have been all over us long ago. Only recently, with Al Qaida, has our eternal enemy partially realized that they must bypass Israel and get to us, Europe, and India first.

[KC]

Exactly (the first part). They should be expelled to the east bank of the Jordan river.

He's right about the second part though, Amman has said repeatedly that they don't want them.

[The Sage of Main Street]

The Baathist movement was modeled on the NAZIs. They played that down after WWII.

Also, Dear Adolf himself wished that the Germans had become Moslem instead of Christian. He wanted a herd of bloodthirsty fanatics dreaming of world domination.

[Peter1469]

Also, Dear Adolf himself wished that the Germans had become Moslem instead of Christian. He wanted a herd of bloodthirsty fanatics dreaming of world domination.

Islam does place a high importance on the military- or at least they did. They seem to have fallen into despondency.

[Mister D]

The OPEC-financed jihad for world domination approves of your message. Israel Is Our Shield.

^^^Zionist tool

[Mister D]

Seems like western liberalism and Islamism are butting heads because both sets of religious fanatics want to rule the world.

[Kabuki Joe]

Seems like western liberalism and Islamism are butting heads because both sets of religious fanatics want to rule the world.


...either way I'm screwed...

[Green Arrow]

Seems like western liberalism and Islamism are butting heads because both sets of religious fanatics want to rule the world.

LOL, it's true though, and very sad.

[Mister D]

LOL, it's true though, and very sad.

That point was raised in a book I'm reading now. Seriously, what's the difference between America's messianic mission and Jihad? The difference between a rusty knife and drone?

[Peter1469]

That point was raised in a book I'm reading now. Seriously, what's the difference between America's messianic mission and Jihad? The difference between a rusty knife and drone?

:wink:

[Kabuki Joe]

That point was raised in a book I'm reading now. Seriously, what's the difference between America's messianic mission and Jihad? The difference between a rusty knife and drone?


...me personally, I'd rather be blown up by a drone...

[Peter1469]

...me personally, I'd rather be blown up by a drone...

No, you have a chance with the knife wielding troglodyte. Even if it is a very small chance.

[texan]

I support Israel.

John Kerry is and has been an idiot.

Obama is a fool for hiring him.

"I was for the war before I was against it", didn't say that either.

[Mister D]

I support Israel.

John Kerry is and has been an idiot.

Obama is a fool for hiring him.

"I was for the war before I was against it", didn't say that either.

I used to.

[Green Arrow]

I support Israel.

Why?

[The Sage of Main Street]

That point was raised in a book I'm reading now. Seriously, what's the difference between America's messianic mission and Jihad? The difference between a rusty knife and drone?

You mean, What's the difference between a predatory beast and a lion hunter? If you hate productive societies, there is a moral equivalence there.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Why? It beats supporting the rabid Arab rabble, banished bandits returning from the desert for another try at destroying productive nations.

[Mister D]

You mean, What's the difference between a predatory beast and a lion hunter? If you hate productive societies, there is a moral equivalence there.

Whoa you're perceptive, Sage!

[Kabuki Joe]

No, you have a chance with the knife wielding troglodyte. Even if it is a very small chance.


...if it was 1 on 1, but is it ever really 1 on 1 with these guys?...3 or 4 holding you down while the guy with the rusty knife cuts your head off...I'd rather be blown up by a drone...

[momsapplepie]

I support the policy of Fucking Stop. Fucking Stop sending billions of dollars in aid a year to Israel when millions of American adults are homeless, millions of American children rot in orphanages, and millions of American veterans are abandoned by our government. Fucking Stop sending weapons to Israel. Fucking Stop hurting our interests abroad by getting into stupid conflicts that don't benefit us, but benefit Israel. Fucking Stop making loyalty to Israel a qualification for holding public office in America. That's the policy I support.

And for the record, my Fucking Stop policy goes for all foreign nations, not just Israel.

ah, but there's a catch. palirats are not a foreign nation and get far more money than Israel. They always have. No Arab nation wants them. Their own countries where they were born put them in camps. They are an unwanted people because no matter where they go they cause trouble. Your policy of fucking stop needs to include that worthy little cause also, don't you agree?

[kilgram]

I do. Israel is an apartheid and fascist state.

Patrickt, critizise the state for its authoritarian behavior does not mean hating Jews.

[Common Sense]

ah, but there's a catch. palirats are not a foreign nation and get far more money than Israel. They always have. No Arab nation wants them. Their own countries where they were born put them in camps. They are an unwanted people because no matter where they go they cause trouble. Your policy of fucking stop needs to include that worthy little cause also, don't you agree?

"Palirats"...what a sweat heart you must be. Do you teach your children that shit?


...and for the record, if you're insinuating that the Palestinians get more funding from the US than Israel does, reality does not support that. The ratio isn't even 10/1.

[Mr. Mensch]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gmc11841320140430094000.jpg

[Green Arrow]

ah, but there's a catch. palirats are not a foreign nation and get far more money than Israel. They always have. No Arab nation wants them. Their own countries where they were born put them in camps. They are an unwanted people because no matter where they go they cause trouble. Your policy of fucking stop needs to include that worthy little cause also, don't you agree?

According to the data provided even by sources like Glen Beck's The Blaze, Israel receives the most foreign aid (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/19/37680000000-thats-how-much-the-u-s-spends-on-foreign-aid-heres-a-chart-that-helps-explain-it/). The Palestinians don't even make the top 5, so I challenge your assertion that they receive "far more" than Israel.

But, yes, the Palestinians are included in my position. Like it or not, they ARE a foreign nation. They have borders, a government, and international recognition.

[Green Arrow]

That point was raised in a book I'm reading now. Seriously, what's the difference between America's messianic mission and Jihad? The difference between a rusty knife and drone?

What's the book, Mister D?

[momsapplepie]

According to the data provided even by sources like Glen Beck's The Blaze, Israel receives the most foreign aid (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/19/37680000000-thats-how-much-the-u-s-spends-on-foreign-aid-heres-a-chart-that-helps-explain-it/). The Palestinians don't even make the top 5, so I challenge your assertion that they receive "far more" than Israel.

But, yes, the Palestinians are included in my position. Like it or not, they ARE a foreign nation. They have borders, a government, and international recognition.

Ummm. care to show that nation on a map with real borders that doesn't run over REAL Countries' borders? And yes on a dollar for dollar basis of international support, palirats receive more funding than anyone else. Do you think the arab nations donate to Israel or something?

[Common Sense]

Ummm. care to show that nation on a map with real borders that doesn't run over REAL Countries' borders? And yes on a dollar for dollar basis of international support, palirats receive more funding than anyone else. Do you think the arab nations donate to Israel or something?

Do you have a source that backs that up?

Why do you call them Palirats, btw?

[Green Arrow]

Ummm. care to show that nation on a map with real borders that doesn't run over REAL Countries' borders?

Israel withdrew from Gaza and the West Bank.


And yes on a dollar for dollar basis of international support, palirats receive more funding than anyone else. Do you think the arab nations donate to Israel or something?

Oh, I see, you're referring to a global basis. I don't give a shit about that, I'm only concerned with what the U.S. does.

[Green Arrow]

Do you have a source that backs that up?

Why do you call them Palirats, btw?

Because far too many supporters of Israel ironically don't realize how much they sound like Nazis.

[Mister D]

What's the book, @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4)?

http://www.amazon.com/Homo-americanus-Child-Postmodern-Age/dp/1419659847

[Mister D]

Because far too many supporters of Israel ironically don't realize how much they sound like Nazis.

Or like fundie loons.

[Mainecoons]

Can you believe that some idiots wanted Kerry to be POTUS?

Unfortunately, that election was totally about a choice between IDIOTS.

I apologize for voting for a g-damned Bush even once.

But I sure didn't do it twice.

[Green Arrow]

Can you believe that some idiots wanted Kerry to be POTUS?

Unfortunately, that election was totally about a choice between IDIOTS.

I apologize for voting for a g-damned Bush even once.

But I sure didn't do it twice.

Can you explain how what Kerry said here was wrong? Noting, of course, that two former Israeli PMs and the Israeli Justice Minister, among others, agree with his statement.

[Mainecoons]

Really, only a complete fucking idiot would vote for a Bush twice.

The same kind of idiot who voted for Obama once, let alone twice.

VOTE LIBERTARIAN AND GIVE THE ESTABLISHMENT PARTY THE FINGER!

[Dr. Who]

An anecdotal story: Years ago I was taking a night school course and in my class was an Israeli Jew - not a European transplant, but someone with a family history in Israel that went back thousands of generations. He talked about the apartheid that was occurring in Israel, because the indigenous Jews and Arabs were being equally maltreated by the European imports. They were all being pushed out and treated as second class citizens in their own land. To him the immigrant European or American people who basically invaded Israel were not his people. He had far more in common with the Arabs with whom his people lived in harmony for millennia. He was a Jew but not a zionist, and did not believe in the right of return. From his perspective his people were being driven out of Israel by foreign invaders.

[Matty]

Really, only a complete fucking idiot would vote for a Bush twice.

The same kind of idiot who voted for Obama once, let alone twice.

VOTE LIBERTARIAN AND GIVE THE ESTABLISHMENT PARTY THE FINGER!



Crap, I voted for Gore once and Bush once. Can you imagine America under Gore? I shudder to think how stupid I was.

[momsapplepie]

Why do I call them palirats? Simple enough. They act like vermin. They are the epitome of hate. As Stated previously even the countries where they are born do not want them. West Bank and Gaza you say? Have they been declared the nation of Palestine? Both are still part of the nation of Isreal.
If the west bank and gaza want to be Palestine then Israel should truly withdraw everything. That would be, water, sewers, electricity, everything it built and still supplies. Then the palirats will have their nation. Hmmm. That works out well in my book. What about you?

Shall we take a look at what palirats do when something is given to them?

Before....

7093


and after....
7094

[kilgram]

Why do I call them palirats? Simple enough. They act like vermin. They are the epitome of hate. As Stated previously even the countries where they are born do not want them. West Bank and Gaza you say? Have they been declared the nation of Palestine? Both are still part of the nation of Isreal.
If the west bank and gaza want to be Palestine then Israel should truly withdraw everything. That would be, water, sewers, electricity, everything it built and still supplies. Then the palirats will have their nation. Hmmm. That works out well in my book. What about you?

Shall we take a look at what palirats do when something is given to them?

Before....

7093


and after....
7094

Obviously Israel is not based in hate

[patrickt]

Obviously Israel is not based in hate

Kilgram made an accurate statement. Mark it on your calendar.

[Common Sense]

Why do I call them palirats? Simple enough. They act like vermin. They are the epitome of hate. As Stated previously even the countries where they are born do not want them. West Bank and Gaza you say? Have they been declared the nation of Palestine? Both are still part of the nation of Isreal.
If the west bank and gaza want to be Palestine then Israel should truly withdraw everything. That would be, water, sewers, electricity, everything it built and still supplies. Then the palirats will have their nation. Hmmm. That works out well in my book. What about you?




So all the women, children and people just trying to make a living are simply rats to you? You're not a born again evangelical are you?

[Green Arrow]

I'm still waiting for someone to present a factual, logical argument explaining why Kerry is wrong. I've already explained, using history, that he is right, and included links to high-ranking Israeli officials agreeing with Kerry.

[Cigar]

I'm still waiting for someone to present a factual, logical argument explaining why Kerry is wrong. I've already explained, using history, that he is right, and included links to high-ranking Israeli officials agreeing with Kerry.

Good Luck with those factual, logical arguments ... those not popular around here. :laugh:

[The Sage of Main Street]

And yes, on a dollar for dollar basis of international support, palirats receive more funding than anyone else. Do you think the arab nations donate to Israel or something? That's another reason to confiscate the OPECker jihadis' price-gouging oil. Despite the well-financed lies about an imaginary free-market price, oil is worth less than $5 a barrel. "Our" oil companies piggyback off jihadi looting and protect the oil-financed jihad against Israel and the world she shields. Such collaboration is treason, no matter how much we are "jealous" of the oilheads just because they are rich.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Because far too many supporters of Israel ironically don't realize how much they sound like Nazis. No doubt about it, the Nazislamis are the ones who sound like Nazis. You might as well say that Churchill sounded like Hitler. I'm sure the German Nazis would have agreed with you.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Why do I call them palirats? Simple enough. They act like vermin. They are the epitome of hate. As stated previously even the countries where they are born do not want them. West Bank and Gaza you say? Have they been declared the nation of Palestine? Both are still part of the nation of Israel.
If the West Bank and Gaza want to be Palestine, then Israel should truly withdraw everything. That would be, water, sewers, electricity, everything it built and still supplies. Then the palirats will have their nation. Hmmm. That works out well in my book. What about you?

Shall we take a look at what palirats do when something is given to them?

Before....

7093


and after....
7094

You're in good company. Winston Churchill wrote the same analysis in a book written in 1899 about the war in Sudan. Later, he turned out to be right about the Nazis and Communists, too. Now he is banned in the formerly Great Britain from being quoted against Musliculturalism.

[kilgram]

Kilgram made an accurate statement. Mark it on your calendar.

It was sarcasm

[Gerrard Winstanley]

Why do I call them palirats? Simple enough. They act like vermin. They are the epitome of hate. As Stated previously even the countries where they are born do not want them. West Bank and Gaza you say? Have they been declared the nation of Palestine? Both are still part of the nation of Isreal.
If the west bank and gaza want to be Palestine then Israel should truly withdraw everything. That would be, water, sewers, electricity, everything it built and still supplies. Then the palirats will have their nation. Hmmm. That works out well in my book. What about you?
I assume you haven't been to the West Bank? All that shit gets redirected to the settlers. The Palestinians don't get anything.