Norway - A Successful Welfare State?

[Conley]

“Money is not the problem,” the union leader tells me brightly — and for a moment I feel far from debt-stricken, austerity-obsessed Europe.

Oil, I think — Norway has oil. That’s how it can afford its outrageously generous cradle-to-grave benefit system and still run a 10 percent budget surplus.

“Women,” says the union leader, Mie Opjordsmoen of the Norwegian Confederation of Trade, a mother of two. “Norwegian women work, pay taxes and have babies. That’s our secret.”

I am touring one of the world’s last functioning welfare states and finding preconceptions shattered one by one. Unions here peg their wage demands to the needs of the export industry. Employers lobby for longer parental leave for fathers. Parties win elections promising not to cut taxes.

And gender equality is treated as a competitive advantage: By law, 40 percent of Norwegian boardroom seats are filled with women. Two male cabinet members, Knut Storberget, the justice minister, and Audun Lysbakken, the minister of equality (yes, this position exists), recently took three and four months off, respectively, to look after their latest offspring. The cost of full-time toddler child care is capped at the equivalent of about two Big Macs a day thanks to state subsidies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/world/europe/29iht-letter29.html?_r=2

Any lessons for the United States here, or are the two cultures too distinct to draw parallels?

[Peter1469]

The lesson is to run a 10% budget surplus rather than 30% one!

Norway is a small and homogeneous society whose people generally accept community solutions over individual responsibility.

Apples and oranges compared to America.

[2Ts]

The lesson is to run a 10% budget surplus rather than 30% one!

Norway is a small and homogeneous society whose people generally accept community solutions over individual responsibility.

Apples and oranges compared to America.

I agree on an economic level... however as we worry ourselves over the degradation of our families and single motherhood.. and the only solution being put forth by the right is to return to traditional,,, stay with your abusive husband for the sake of the kids mentally.


"Senator Grothman claims there's an epidemic of single parenthood, and he's pointing a finger at women for it.
"There's been a huge change over the last 30 years, and a lot of that change has been the choice of women," said Senator Grothman. The backlash has put his bill under a microscope. Specifically, it cites non-marital parenthood as a contributing factor in child abuse. The bill's co-sponsor, Representative Don Pridemore, told TODAY'S TMJ4 he thinks even in abusive relationships, there are other options than divorce. "If they can refind those reasons and get back to why they got married in the first place it might help," said Representative Don Pridemore." http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/142161793.html

in the US, we seem to be under the impression that we can go back to the era of Ozzie and Harriette and pretend it was glorious as long as the women shut up and behave. Instead of moving toward more equality, the efforts are toward less empowerment.

[Conley]

I think the collapse of the family unit and single motherhood are valid concerns. I'm sure you'd agree that marriages fall apart for many more reasons than abusive husbands. I do think there's more of a 'me' mentality in our society these days, and that plus the 'wanting to be happy' excuse probably contributes to the higher divorce rates. Generally speaking I believe gender equality in our country is at a peak. It still has a way to go but we shouldn't discount progress.

[Mainecoons]

Norway is a small and homogeneous society whose people generally accept community solutions over individual responsibility.

Apples and oranges compared to America.

Exactly. Canada is doing pretty well for the same reason. Diversity is just another one of those liberal mantras that flops miserably in the real world.

[Conley]

Here's an interesting article ranking diversity in the workplace (including women, which you may not be considering).

http://images.forbes.com/forbesinsights/StudyPDFs/global_diversity_rankings_2012.pdf

Norway is ranked 1st in diversity, Canada 9th, the U.S. 15th, Pakistan 50th.

It makes sense to me that countries getting the most from their entire population would be the most successful. That's why I often think there is little hope for economic success in countries like Afghanistan in their current form.

[MMC]

I think the collapse of the family unit and single motherhood are valid concerns. I'm sure you'd agree that marriages fall apart for many more reasons than abusive husbands. I do think there's more of a 'me' mentality in our society these days, and that plus the 'wanting to be happy' excuse probably contributes to the higher divorce rates. Generally speaking I believe gender equality in our country is at a peak. It still has a way to go but we shouldn't discount progress.


Yes do you think abusive husbands are what is topping that list? Are there abusive wives? I have heard these guys in brief flashes talking about such on talk televison.

[Peter1469]

I agree on an economic level... however as we worry ourselves over the degradation of our families and single motherhood.. and the only solution being put forth by the right is to return to traditional,,, stay with your abusive husband for the sake of the kids mentally.




in the US, we seem to be under the impression that we can go back to the era of Ozzie and Harriette and pretend it was glorious as long as the women shut up and behave. Instead of moving toward more equality, the efforts are toward less empowerment.


Where did the womyn's studies lesson come from? What does that have to do with my post? I simply said that the US should be like Norway and cuts its deficit from 30% to 10%.

[Peter1469]

And if we are going to discuss womyen's studies, not all single women are single because some man beat the crap out of them. Many women are single because they are manic depressive and men don't want to deal with them. So they get a cat....

[wingrider]

I have studied women... for years ... and here is the results of that study.



under 18... protected by law

over 60 ..... protected by mother nature.


any where in between ........................fair game

[Conley]

Norway ranking second on the global pay scale (US 4th):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17543356

Neat comparison of many countries.

[Peter1469]

Here is a study done by a college in Norway concerning restructuring the welfare state in Norway. It is long and I will go through it in peaces.

http://www.euro.centre.org/rescalingDocuments/files/Norway.pdf

[Conley]

Looks good, just wish it were a little more recent (not complaining). Amazing unemployment numbers. I look forward to the dissection.

[Peter1469]

2006- pre financial crash- at the height of economic growth. But I understand that the study covers a large period of time.