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Peter1469
06-01-2014, 08:58 AM
As we approach the November elections more on Obamacare (http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/obamacare-blue-states_793908.html)is going to come out.


One of the ironies of the Affordable Care Act is that many of the governors who zealously supported the bill failed spectacularly in its implementation. Oregon, Maryland, and Minnesota are among the most prominent failures. The Massachusetts exchange, the primary inspiration for the ACA exchanges, collapsed entirely, and state officials lack a plan for fixing it in time for this fall’s enrollments.





President Obama’s response to mounting concerns about potentially criminal misconduct may become a defining moment of his second term. He should start by reviewing the performance of the key law enforcement official, Health and Human Services inspector general Daniel Levinson, who slumbered through the gate reviews in the same way he slumbered through the disastrous launch of HealthCare.gov.

Redrose
06-04-2014, 12:50 AM
The ACA was designed to fail. That's why no one took the time to read it. They didn't give a damn.

The intended goal all along was to replace most of it with a single payer system....socialized medicine. It has more language in it to "control" than to revamp the healthcare industry. It's bad news.

waltky
03-28-2016, 11:51 PM
Millions of workers will leave employer-sponsored health plans over the next decade because of ObamaCare...
:shocked:
ObamaCare may force employers to pull the plug on millions of health plans, CBO report finds
March 28, 2016 - In the latest report to undercut President Obama's "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it" promise, the Congressional Budget Office projects millions of workers will leave employer-sponsored health plans over the next decade because of ObamaCare.


Some will opt to go on Medicaid, but others will be kicked off their company plans by employers who decide not to offer coverage anymore, according to a new CBO report titled, "Federal Subsidies for Health Insurance Coverage for People Under Age 65: 2016 to 2026." "As a result of the ACA, between 4 million and 9 million fewer people are projected to have employment-based coverage each year from 2017 through 2026 than would have had such coverage if the ACA had never been enacted,” the report, released Thursday, said.


http://a57.foxnews.com/media2.foxnews.com/BrightCove/694940094001/2016/03/15/876/493/694940094001_4801936970001_a0621df9-198d-4302-bbd3-730de8562419.jpg?ve=1&tl=1
Sen. Ben Sasse: Obamacare has fewer insurer options in 2016

Employers now cover some 155 million people, about 57 percent of those under 65. That's expected to decline to 152 million people in 2019. Ten years from now, employers will be covering about 54 percent of those under 65. CBO said part of the shrinkage is attributable to the health care law: some workers may qualify for Medicaid, which is virtually free to them, and certain employers may decide not to offer coverage because a government-subsidized alternative is available. Larger employers would face fines if they take that route.

But the agency also noted that employer coverage had been declining due to rising medical costs well before the health care law was passed, and that the trend continues. The CBO also found that more people will enroll in Medicaid than previously predicted, though fewer will be covered through the public insurance marketplaces mandated by the Affordable Care Act. The analysis underscores the view that the health care law is driving the nation's gains in insurance coverage, which raises political risks for Republicans who would repeal it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/28/obamacare-may-force-employers-to-pull-plug-on-millions-health-plans-cbo-report-finds.html?intcmp=hpbt4

Peter1469
03-29-2016, 04:55 AM
That was part of the plan. Conceptually I do like the idea of health insurance not being tied to employment.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 06:51 AM
As we approach the November elections more on Obamacare (http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/obamacare-blue-states_793908.html)is going to come out.


Hahahahah... The WEEKLY STANDARD!! (from Wiki) Oh of course we are going to believe EVERY word..


The Weekly Standard is an American neoconservative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-3)[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-5)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-6) opinion magazine[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-7) published 48 times per year. Its founding publisher, News Corporation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation), debuted the title on September 18, 1995. Currently edited by founder William Kristol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kristol) and Fred Barnes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Barnes_(journalist)), the Standard has been described as a "redoubt of neoconservatism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism)" and as "the neo-con bible".[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-8)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-9) [10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-10)
Since it was founded in 1995, The Weekly Standard has never been profitable, and has remained in business through subsidies from conservative benefactors such as former owner Rupert Murdoch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch).[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekly_Standard#cite_note-11)
Many of the magazine's articles are written by members of conservative think tanks located in Washington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_D.C.): the American Enterprise Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute), the Ethics and Public Policy Center (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_and_Public_Policy_Center), the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies), the Hudson Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Institute), as well as Kristol's Foreign Policy Initiative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Policy_Initiative). Individuals who have written for the magazine include Elliott Abrams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams), Peter Berkowitz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Berkowitz), John R. Bolton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bolton), Ellen Bork (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Bork), David Brooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brooks_(journalist)), Christopher Hitchens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens), Roger Kimball (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Kimball), Harvey Mansfield (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Mansfield), Joe Queenan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Queenan), and John Yoo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo). The magazine's website blog, titled Daily Standard, is edited by Daniel Halper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Halper) and produces

Cigar
03-29-2016, 07:14 AM
:grin: Do I really need to say it again?

michiganFats
03-29-2016, 07:19 AM
That was part of the plan. Conceptually I do like the idea of health insurance not being tied to employment.

I agree, I always thought tying it to employment was a bad idea but the way they implemented this is insane, it's almost as if they wanted to kill off lower-middle class participation in the economy.

Cigar
03-29-2016, 07:23 AM
It's Tuesday ... I think it's time for another Congressional Vote.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 07:26 AM
It's Tuesday ... I think it's time for another Congressional Vote.

Yeah.... what's it up to now? 70??

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 07:35 AM
I agree, I always thought tying it to employment was a bad idea but the way they implemented this is insane, it's almost as if they wanted to kill off lower-middle class participation in the economy.
Healthcare was not tied to employment. Bacause of wage controls employers were looking for a way to entice the best employees. Offering to pay for health care insurance was allowed. The unintended consequence is the practice became widespread.

People should pay for their own healthcare insurance. The government should get completely out of the healthcare business.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 08:06 AM
Healthcare was not tied to employment. Bacause of wage controls employers were looking for a way to entice the best employees. Offering to pay for health care insurance was allowed. The unintended consequence is the practice became widespread.

People should pay for their own healthcare insurance. The government should get completely out of the healthcare business.

What would you do about people that cannot afford to buy healthcare insurance? Oh... I know... let 'em die.. OR go to the ER so all of us can end up paying for them anyway, with increased costs and premiums..

FindersKeepers
03-29-2016, 08:30 AM
Hahahahah... The WEEKLY STANDARD!! (from Wiki) Oh of course we are going to believe EVERY word.. T That's a two year old piece. Here's something a bit more current. BTW, the ACA is in trouble. Why else would Hillary be sending Chelsea around trashing it and claiming that only her mother can fix the mess? http://blogs-images.forbes.com/theapothecary/files/2015/10/Predicted-v-Actual-ACA-Enrollment-Growth.png
Yesterday, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office released its annual ten-year Budget and Economic Outlook (https://www.cbo.gov/publication/51129). The document contains the CBO’s updated estimates for economic growth, employment, and the nation’s fiscal health. The most notable change was to enrollment in Obamacare’s health insurance exchanges. The CBO, bowing to reality, slashed their 2016 estimates of exchange enrollment from 21 million to 13 million. Furthermore, the CBO implied that it expects exchange enrollment to peak at 16 million: a far cry from the 24 million it predicted last March. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/01/26/cbo-slashes-2016-obamacare-exchange-enrollment-projections-by-8-million/#1ab9bf19791e History will not remember Obama kindly.

michiganFats
03-29-2016, 08:42 AM
Healthcare was not tied to employment. Bacause of wage controls employers were looking for a way to entice the best employees. Offering to pay for health care insurance was allowed. The unintended consequence is the practice became widespread.

People should pay for their own healthcare insurance. The government should get completely out of the healthcare business.

If it was a benefit offered by employers then it was literally tied to employment.

I understand the point you're making but I think it's a distinction without a difference. Most Americans used to get their health insurance through their employer. Why wouldn't you? Why pay 100% of the premium when you can pay 20%? Or less? It wasn't the "official" system but it was the way it worked so in effect it was tied to employment for many people.

I always thought it was a bad idea but I don't blame people for doing it. I agree that people should purchase their own policies but right now with all of the interference in that industry we're not going to see it, some people can't afford it.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 11:46 AM
Hahahahah... The WEEKLY STANDARD!! (from Wiki) Oh of course we are going to believe EVERY word..


Actually, I believe the Washington Post, certainly not a conserative rag, is the biggest fact exposer and critic of the ACA.

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 11:48 AM
What would you do about people that cannot afford to buy healthcare insurance? Oh... I know... let 'em die.. OR go to the ER so all of us can end up paying for them anyway, with increased costs and premiums..
Once government is out of healthcare the costs will return to "reasonable".

If you cannot pay then you must rely upon the charity of others.

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 11:50 AM
If it was a benefit offered by employers then it was literally tied to employment.

I understand the point you're making but I think it's a distinction without a difference. Most Americans used to get their health insurance through their employer. Why wouldn't you? Why pay 100% of the premium when you can pay 20%? Or less? It wasn't the "official" system but it was the way it worked so in effect it was tied to employment for many people.

I always thought it was a bad idea but I don't blame people for doing it. I agree that people should purchase their own policies but right now with all of the interference in that industry we're not going to see it, some people can't afford it.
There were no laws that tied healthcare to employment. It was an unintended consequence of wage controls. Government intervened. When government stops intervening there will be many good options to choose from.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 11:51 AM
T That's a two year old piece. Here's something a bit more current. BTW, the ACA is in trouble.


Yesterday, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office released its annual ten-year Budget and Economic Outlook (https://www.cbo.gov/publication/51129). The document contains the CBO’s updated estimates for economic growth, employment, and the nation’s fiscal health. The most notable change was to enrollment in Obamacare’s health insurance exchanges. The CBO, bowing to reality, slashed their 2016 estimates of exchange enrollment from 21 million to 13 million. Furthermore, the CBO implied that it expects exchange enrollment to peak at 16 million: a far cry from the 24 million it predicted last March.



I believe that the Washington Post reported that even though millions of people enrolled into the ACA, only a few thousand actually paid their premiums.

michiganFats
03-29-2016, 11:54 AM
There were no laws that tied healthcare to employment. It was an unintended consequence of wage controls. Government intervened. When government stops intervening there will be many good options to choose from.

I wasn't making the case that the law tied healthcare to employment, and you know that.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 12:07 PM
Once government is out of healthcare the costs will return to "reasonable".

If you cannot pay then you must rely upon the charity of others.

I take it you are going to refuse Medicare then??????

FindersKeepers
03-29-2016, 12:15 PM
I take it you are going to refuse Medicare then??????


I think you're confusing Medicare with Medicaid.

Two totally different animals.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 12:20 PM
I think you're confusing Medicare with Medicaid.

Two totally different animals.

No.. they actually aren't... BOTH are Single Payer systems... Both are run by the Government.. One by the Feds (Medicare) and one by the individual State (Medicaid)... Medicare does MUCH better.. and is MUCH more efficient that Medicaid.. Which kind of belies the claim that the Federal Government can't to anything right. Just go ahead and ask any Senior how much they "Hate" their Medicare... You will be laughed at just before they club you with their cane.

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 12:21 PM
I wasn't making the case that the law tied healthcare to employment, and you know that.
Right. The ties are common usage. But once government is out of healthcare there will be no reason to focus on it. Companies can offer salary or healthcare or a mix. Government is the reason and government is the problem. I wasn't making any other point.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 12:24 PM
Right. The ties are common usage. But once government is out of healthcare there will be no reason to focus on it. Companies can offer salary or healthcare or a mix. Government is the reason and government is the problem. I wasn't making any other point.

What do you propose for our Seniors...???

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 12:24 PM
I take it you are going to refuse Medicare then??????
As an Army officer retiree, I will be forced off Tricare and onto Medicare in three more years. It was part of my total compensation package. Do you believe that six question marks make your question more of a question than one?

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 12:25 PM
As an Army officer retiree, I will be forced off Tricare and onto Medicare in three more years. It was part of my total compensation package. Do you believe that six question marks make your question more of a question than one?

absolutely...

So let me understand.. YOU have been on Government run healthcare all along.. and will soon go on another government run program... and you are against government run healthcare.. amazing.

FindersKeepers
03-29-2016, 12:26 PM
No.. they actually aren't... BOTH are Single Payer systems... Both are run by the Government.. One by the Feds (Medicare) and one by the individual State (Medicaid)... Medicare does MUCH better.. and is MUCH more efficient that Medicaid.. Which kind of belies the claim that the Federal Government can't to anything right. Just go ahead and ask any Senior how much they "Hate" their Medicare... You will be laughed at just before they club you with their cane.

Two totally different things.
Read and learn.
http://www.hhs.gov/answers/medicare-and-medicaid/what-is-the-difference-between-medicare-medicaid/index.html

Seniors pay more than a little into Medicare, some people on Medicaid pay nothing at all.

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 12:27 PM
What do you propose for our Seniors...???
I propose nothing for "our" Seniors. Those on the various welfare programs who paid in over their working lives and those who are close to retirement should be continued. But all new employees, say anyone under 30 should have their taxes cut so they can buy their own programs. Social Security and Medicare are both Ponzi schemes. The people who passed them and supported them lied about them. Of course, that began with FDR. It continues up to today's crop of politicians. It is time to stop the lies and free the people.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 12:29 PM
Two totally different things.
Read and learn.
http://www.hhs.gov/answers/medicare-and-medicaid/what-is-the-difference-between-medicare-medicaid/index.html

Seniors pay more than a little into Medicare, some people on Medicaid pay nothing at all.

Trust me.. I know ALL about Medicare and Medicaid.. What I said was they are both single payer systems... True.. and they are both government run.... also true.. There is nothing I need to learn about either.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 12:33 PM
I propose nothing for "our" Seniors. Those on the various welfare programs who paid in over their working lives and those who are close to retirement should be continued. But all new employees, say anyone under 30 should have their taxes cut so they can buy their own programs. Social Security and Medicare are both Ponzi schemes. The people who passed them and supported them lied about them. Of course, that began with FDR. It continues up to today's crop of politicians. It is time to stop the lies and free the people.

Until the market crashes again..

So you will be on Medicare in 3 years... great... You realize that your healthcare will be paid for by current workers paying FICA taxes out of their checks.. SO you propose to stop having FICA taken out of their checks.. Figure it out dear.... what's going to happen to you when you break a hip? lol!

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 12:40 PM
Until the market crashes again..

So you will be on Medicare in 3 years... great... You realize that your healthcare will be paid for by current workers paying FICA taxes out of their checks.. SO you propose to stop having FICA taken out of their checks.. Figure it out dear.... what's going to happen to you when you break a hip? lol!
The money has always been used for other things. Are you arguing that we cannot stop lying to people and setting them free is not possible because we lied to people so we have to always lie to people?

We can adjust our relationship with NATO and go from the primary bill payer to a minor bill payer. That will free up a few dollars. We can reform welfare programs so we are not paying for 90 million people to stay out of the workforce. That will free up a few dollars. We can get the government out of big education. That will free up a few dollars. We can end most of the nearly 500 independent agencies and cancel the hundreds of thousands of regulations. That will free up a few dollars.

Most importantly, we can free new workers from a lifetime of dependency on the government. That will free up the human spirit.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 12:43 PM
As an Army officer retiree, I will be forced off Tricare and onto Medicare in three more years. It was part of my total compensation package. Do you believe that six question marks make your question more of a question than one?

Are you sure that you will be forced off Tricare completely? I'm of the understanding that military retirees will be dual covered.

It makes no sense, but when does government ever make sense? It's basically an accounting gimmick.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 12:46 PM
Until the market crashes again..

So you will be on Medicare in 3 years... great... You realize that your healthcare will be paid for by current workers paying FICA taxes out of their checks.. SO you propose to stop having FICA taken out of their checks.. Figure it out dear.... what's going to happen to you when you break a hip? lol!


People under sixty five paid into the program for thirty to forty plus years expecting to receive a benefit in their senior years. Also many still continue to work and pay into the system.

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 12:48 PM
Are you sure that you will be forced off Tricare completely? I'm of the understanding that military retirees will be dual covered.

It makes no sense, but when does government ever make sense? It's basically an accounting gimmick.
I received a letter telling me that I must sign up for Medicare and have my retired ID card corrected prior to my 65th birthday. There are many doctors who will not accept Medicare patients because the government does not pay them enough to make it worth their while.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 12:50 PM
People under sixty five paid into the program for thirty to forty plus years expecting to receive a benefit in their senior years. Also many still continue to work and pay into the system.

That's true... and when they were working and paying into the system, those payments went toward the medical care and SS benefits of the seniors collecting benefits at that time. There is NO special account with your name on it. Your benefits will be paid by younger workers. So what is going to happen to our Seniors if there are no younger workers paying FICA taxes?

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 12:52 PM
I received a letter telling me that I must sign up for Medicare and have my retired ID card corrected prior to my 65th birthday. There are many doctors who will not accept Medicare patients because the government does not pay them enough to make it worth their while.


Tricare doesn't either.. are you having a problem getting doctors to accept your Tricare?

Also, I can assure you that doctors are accepting Medicare.. and Hospitals fall all over themselves to stay Medicare providers.. you will absolutely LOVE your Medicare.. that nasty old gubment run program...

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 12:54 PM
Tricare doesn't either.. are you having a problem getting doctors to accept your Tricare?
None. But then I have been with the same doctor under Tricare for the last eight or nine years. He will not have to keep me when I become a medicare baby. Fortunately I am reasonably healthy so he doesn't lose much money on me. I see him for 20-30 minutes per year.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 12:55 PM
I received a letter telling me that I must sign up for Medicare and have my retired ID card corrected prior to my 65th birthday. There are many doctors who will not accept Medicare patients because the government does not pay them enough to make it worth their while.

My retired military ID card has an expiration date. Other retirees I know do not. I asked a person at the ID section why and she said it iexpires so I will be prompted to come in and sign up for Medicare on my 65th birthday. I asked why that is so important seeing that I'm on Tricare for life and she told me that Medicare will pick up certain parts of my health care from then on, but I will still be in Tricare as well.

I utilize the family practice clinic at the local Naval hospital for my health care needs. Nothing is going to change when I hit 65.

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 12:59 PM
My retired military ID card has an expiration date. Other retirees I know do not. I asked a person at the ID section why and she said it expires so I will be prompted to come in and sign up for Medicare on my 65th birthday. I asked why that is so important seeing that I'm on Tricare for life and she told me that Medicare will pick up certain parts of my health care from then on, but I will still be in Tricare as well.

I utilize the family practice clinic at the local Naval hospital for my health care needs. Nothing is going to change when I hit 65.
Cool. I hope you are right. I have always known that the Congress could change the deal after the fact. I expected them to take it away, gradually. If you are right then nothing will change for me.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 01:02 PM
None. But then I have been with the same doctor under Tricare for the last eight or nine years. He will not have to keep me when I become a medicare baby. Fortunately I am reasonably healthy so he doesn't lose much money on me. I see him for 20-30 minutes per year.

You won't have any problem with Docs taking Medicare either.. However, you are going to have to also sign up for Medicare Part B and then obtain a Medicare supplement. You may also want to look into one of the Medicare Advantage plans since you are reasonably healthy and they will save you some money. However, you will be limited to what doctor or hospital you can go to with the Advantage plan.. they are like HMOs..

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 01:08 PM
You won't have any problem with Docs taking Medicare either.. However, you are going to have to also sign up for Medicare Part B and then obtain a Medicare supplement. You may also want to look into one of the Medicare Advantage plans since you are reasonably healthy and they will save you some money. However, you will be limited to what doctor or hospital you can go to with the Advantage plan.. they are like HMOs..
This tells me that Medicare is a poor cousin to Tricare. Thanks for the information. I won't spend any time looking into it until I turn 64.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 01:20 PM
While retirees probably will have their benefits watered down more in the future, this is simply an example of how government is overgrown and completely inefficient. This is simply a billing issue. One government entity billing another government entity.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 01:22 PM
This tells me that Medicare is a poor cousin to Tricare. Thanks for the information. I won't spend any time looing into it until I turn 64.

Medicare part A is free... That pays for hospital visits.

Medicare part B is taken out of your SS check.. it pays for outpatient services and doctor visits

Medicare supplements pay for all services that Medicare doesn't cover.

Medicare part D is for prescription drugs

You are completely free to see any doctor you choose.. or go to any hospital


Medicare Advantage plans are run by private insurance. Premiums come out of your SS check.. they are cheaper than traditional Medicare.. But you are restricted to certain hospitals and doctors.


Your choice..

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 01:24 PM
what is going to happen to our Seniors if there are no younger workers paying FICA taxes?

Hmmm. I thought liberals like you have been crowing about how great the employment situation is in America today.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 01:27 PM
Hmmm. I thought liberals like you have been crowing about how great the employment situation is in America today.

Apparently you were not able to comprehend what I was saying.... I will type slower and louder..

SS and medicare is paid out of current workers FICA tax

If you do away with the FICA tax and allow current workers to invest in the Private market.. what is going to happen to the Seniors that are currently on Medicare and SS? Pray tell..

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 01:40 PM
you're a peach.....

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 01:44 PM
you're a peach.....

I also handle Medicare billing and review for a living...

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 01:48 PM
I also handle Medicare billing and review for a living...

so what?

People are paying into the system now and according to people like you, more people are working than ever before.

I hope you aren't trying to argue about the ramifications of a tax code that isn't going to happen?

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 01:52 PM
so what?

People are paying into the system now and according to people like you, more people are working than ever before.

I hope you aren't trying to argue about the ramifications of a tax code that isn't going to happen?

Oh stop... you are annoying me... and not worth debating on this topic.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 01:54 PM
Oh stop... you are annoying me... and not worth debating on this topic.


You ran out of substance rather quickly.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 01:56 PM
You ran out of substance rather quickly.


Oh sure.... of course you are right... hahahahahahaha

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 01:58 PM
absolutely...

So let me understand.. YOU have been on Government run healthcare all along.. and will soon go on another government run program... and you are against government run healthcare.. amazing.
Why yes. I accepted the contract that in return for me going where I was told and doing what I was told I would get "free" healthcare for the rest of my life. On four separate occasions that promise made the difference between leaving and staying on. Now if that "promise" had not been made I would have left at the 6 year mark, the 8 year mark, the 10 year mark and the 14 year mark.

You got 20 years of my youth as part of a large military that you needed at the time. Would you renige after I fulfilled my part of the bargain?

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 02:02 PM
Apparently you were not able to comprehend what I was saying.... I will type slower and louder..

SS and medicare is paid out of current workers FICA tax

If you do away with the FICA tax and allow current workers to invest in the Private market.. what is going to happen to the Seniors that are currently on Medicare and SS? Pray tell..
They will be paid for out of the general fund until there are no more people who were lied to participating in the programs. The advantages to stopping the lies is that it frees the new generations from bondage and a life of dependency. It is the moral thing to do.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 02:14 PM
Why yes. I accepted the contract that in return for me going where I was told and doing what I was told I would get "free" healthcare for the rest of my life. On four separate occasions that promise made the difference between leaving and staying on. Now if that "promise" had not been made I would have left at the 6 year mark, the 8 year mark, the 10 year mark and the 14 year mark.

You got 20 years of my youth as part of a large military that you needed at the time. Would you renige after I fulfilled my part of the bargain?

Thank you for your service... but you shouldn't be badmouthing something you are taking advantage of... earned or not. Aren't you happy it's been there for you? won't you be happy when Medicare steps in and protects you from losing everything to medical bills? Just askin'

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 02:20 PM
Thank you for your service... but you shouldn't be badmouthing something you are taking advantage of... earned or not. Aren't you happy it's been there for you? won't you be happy when Medicare steps in and protects you from losing everything to medical bills? Just askin'
Do you understand anything? The government has been pulling a Ponzi scheme on the American taxpayers, the productive people, beginning with FDR. It is time to end the lies. It is time to free the American citizens from an abusive relationship with the government.

Most people did not serve for 20 years with the implied agreement that health care for life was a big part of the pay package. I did.

Nothing should change for people already on the various welfare programs like Medicare and Social Security. For those who are at the beginning of their economic lives we should insist that the government stop the lies and deceit. These programs are nothing more than tools to extract more of the employee's wealth under the fiction that they are getting something of value in return.

Democrats are the worst forms of lying scum. When discovered you make excuses for why the lies must continue. You feed off big government and the productive people. If you were capable of feeling shame you would change.

Quicksilver
03-29-2016, 02:22 PM
Do you understand anything? The government has been pulling a Ponzi scheme on the American taxpayers, the productive people, beginning with FDR. It is time to end the lies. It is time to free the American citizens from an abusive relationship with the government.

Most people did not serve for 20 years with the implied agreement that health care for life was a big part of the pay package. I did.

Nothing should change for people already on the various welfare programs like Medicare and Social Security. For those who are at the beginning of their economic lives we should insist that the government stop the lies and deceit. These programs are nothing more than tools to extract more of the employee's wealth under the fiction that they are getting something of value in return.

Democrats are the worst forms of lying scum. When discovered you make excuses for why the lies must continue. You feed off big government and the productive people. If you were capable of feeling shame you would change.


You are a fool. What's even worse is that you are and OLD fool... too bad..

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 02:26 PM
You are a fool
Hmmm. Quandary. I recognize that the government has been lying to the people for close to 80 years. The systems were designed to milk the American taxpayers for as much of their wealth as possible. The politicians spent the money. They lied. You are part of that lying, big government squeeze. It is your gravy train. Of course, you will have mewling excuses for why the lies and deceit must continue. You earn your living wallowing in political offal.

Those who blind themselves shall never see what is obvious to all around them.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 02:34 PM
Oh sure.... of course you are right... hahahahahahaha


Well..... Yes, I am.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 02:37 PM
Hmmm. Quandary. I recognize that the government has been lying to the people for close to 80 years. The systems were designed to milk the American taxpayers for as much of their wealth as possible. The politicians spent the money. They lied. You are part of that lying, big government squeeze. It is your gravy train. Of course, you will have mewling excuses for why the lies and deceit must continue. You earn your living wallowing in political offal.

Those who blind themselves shall never see what is obvious to all around them.


Isnt it odd that people who worship government and mindlessly believe everything liberalism has fed them call others a "fool".

FindersKeepers
03-29-2016, 02:38 PM
Trust me.. I know ALL about Medicare and Medicaid.. What I said was they are both single payer systems... True.. and they are both government run.... also true.. There is nothing I need to learn about either.

Trust you....


:grin:

You haven't a clue as to the differences between the two -- yet you're asking us to trust you.

I just gotta chuckle.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 02:39 PM
You are a fool. What's even worse is that you are and OLD fool... too bad..


A lot of irony in that one.

Peter1469
03-29-2016, 02:42 PM
Until the market crashes again..

So you will be on Medicare in 3 years... great... You realize that your healthcare will be paid for by current workers paying FICA taxes out of their checks.. SO you propose to stop having FICA taken out of their checks.. Figure it out dear.... what's going to happen to you when you break a hip? lol!Except for rare instances in time, the market greatly out performs the returns on SS and Medicaid. There could be an insurance plan to cover those rare times.

Peter1469
03-29-2016, 02:46 PM
More may be insured today had Obamacare not passed (http://www.weeklystandard.com/article/2001732)

These are CBO numbers and they over estimated the insured under Obamacare, so it is possible that they miscalculated the other figure as well. But here it is:


Three years ago, on the eve of Obamacare’s implementation, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projected that President Obama's centerpiece legislation would result in an average of 201 million people having private health insurance in any given month of 2016. Now that 2016 is here, the CBO says that just 177 million people, on average, will have private health insurance in any given month of this year—a shortfall of 24 million people.

Indeed, based on the CBO's own numbers, it seems possible that Obamacare has actually reduced the number of people with private health insurance. In 2013, the CBO projected (https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/51298-2013-02-ACA.pdf) that, without Obamacare, 186 million people would be covered by private health insurance in 2016—160 million on employer-based plans, 26 million on individually purchased plans. The CBO now says (https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/51298-2016-03-HealthInsurance.pdf) that, with Obamacare, 177 million people will be covered by private health insurance in 2016—155 million on employer-based plans, 12 million on plans bought through Obamacare's government-run exchanges, and 9 million on other individually purchased plans (plus a rounding error of 1 million).

read more at the link

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 03:06 PM
More may be insured today had Obamacare not passed (http://www.weeklystandard.com/article/2001732)

These are CBO numbers and they over estimated the insured under Obamacare, so it is possible that they miscalculated the other figure as well. But here it is:



read more at the link

I wish I could find it, but I believe it was the Washington Post which reported that of the millions who have enrolled into the ACA, only three thousand or so have actually paid a premium.

Peter1469
03-29-2016, 03:09 PM
I wish I could find it, but I believe it was the Washington Post which reported that of the millions who have enrolled into the ACA, only three thousand or so have actually paid a premium.

I believe that you are correct.

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 03:14 PM
The administration certainly wants that tid-bit kept under wraps.

MisterVeritis
03-29-2016, 03:23 PM
Do you understand anything? The government has been pulling a Ponzi scheme on the American taxpayers, the productive people, beginning with FDR. It is time to end the lies. It is time to free the American citizens from an abusive relationship with the government.

Most people did not serve for 20 years with the implied agreement that health care for life was a big part of the pay package. I did.

Nothing should change for people already on the various welfare programs like Medicare and Social Security. For those who are at the beginning of their economic lives we should insist that the government stop the lies and deceit. These programs are nothing more than tools to extract more of the employee's wealth under the fiction that they are getting something of value in return.

Democrats are the worst forms of lying scum. When discovered you make excuses for why the lies must continue. You feed off big government and the productive people. If you were capable of feeling shame you would change.

You are a fool. What's even worse is that you are and OLD fool... too bad..
Do your statements mean you disagree with some of my statements? If so, which did you find were in error?

Tahuyaman
03-29-2016, 07:49 PM
Except for rare instances in time, the market greatly out performs the returns on SS and Medicaid. There could be an insurance plan to cover those rare times.

I agree.