Jacksonville Police: 18,000 homes will receive a warrantless search

[Alyosha]

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10389980_10152403378378189_8443185884331639870_n.j pg

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/jacksonville-police-18000-doors/


This week, the Jacksonville Sheriff’s office announced that they would be installing new security cameras around the city and knocking on more than 18,000 doors, without warrants, as a part of an initiative called “operation ceasefire”.


Sheriff John Rutherford, Mayor Alvin Brown and Councilwoman Denise Lee made the announcement this Tuesday at a press conference outside of the local Sheriff’s office. The sheriff admitted that many aspects of the program, including the security cameras, would be paid for with money that was taken from victims of the drug war.


“We’re going to use the drug money we pull out of this neighborhood to protect this neighborhood,” Rutherford said.


In addition to the aspects of the project which are being funded through asset forfeiture, the department is also asking for tax funding of over 3 million dollars for new officers. The stated goal of this program is to decrease violent crime, most of which is related to the drug trade. However, the violence of the drug war is a direct result of prohibition, and the best way to stop that violence is to end prohibition.


Mayor Brown said at the press conference that (http://members.jacksonville.com/news/crime/2014-05-20/story/jacksonville-police-will-knock-18000-doors-northwest-jacksonville) “We must also be tough on the causes of crime. One of the best ways to stop crime is to prevent it.”
Unfortunately, he does not seem to realize that prohibition is actually one of the main things causing violent crime.

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/jacksonville-police-18000-doors/#hxO9bqK8jqBMACMR.99



For Captain Obvious who needs local or network news links: http://members.jacksonville.com/news/crime/2014-05-20/story/jacksonville-police-will-knock-18000-doors-northwest-jacksonville



My question is the loss of liberty worth the gain?

[Captain Obvious]

When do you need a warrant to knock on a door?

Meh, internet bedshit fauxrage article. Looks like it worked too. Smells too much like spin/lies but it seems to work every time with it's target audience.

[zelmo1234]

Sounds like there are some real constitutional problems with this!

I see NO reason for the people to allow the police into there homes.

If they have reason to believe that there are illegal guns and drugs in a home? then get the warrant, if the judge think that the reasons are valid, then he or she will grant that warrant

If not then you don't have a case and you do not have the right!

looks like it is time for America to stand up to tyranny again! Hoe they do!

[Alyosha]

When do you need a warrant to knock on a door?

Meh, internet bedshit fauxrage article. Looks like it worked too. Smells too much like spin/lies but it seems to work every time with it's target audience.

Hence why I gave you the link to local news.

[zelmo1234]

When do you need a warrant to knock on a door?

Meh, internet bedshit fauxrage article. Looks like it worked too. Smells too much like spin/lies but it seems to work every time with it's target audience.

I will agree that they need NO warrant to knock on the door, but they need to leave when they are told that they can't come in!

This is not likely to happen in my opinion

[Alyosha]

Sounds like there are some real constitutional problems with this!

I see NO reason for the people to allow the police into there homes.

If they have reason to believe that there are illegal guns and drugs in a home? then get the warrant, if the judge think that the reasons are valid, then he or she will grant that warrant

If not then you don't have a case and you do not have the right!

looks like it is time for America to stand up to tyranny again! Hoe they do!

They are knocking on doors because it gives them any number of probable cause entry points. They can say they smelled something, noticed something.

It's a slow frog boil. Look at the Captain, he's justifying it and calls himself a moderate. The fact is that IS the moderate position now, next year the moderate position will be home entry, the year after that....who knows what?

Orwell is here.

[Captain Obvious]

I will agree that they need NO warrant to knock on the door, but they need to leave when they are told that they can't come in!

This is not likely to happen in my opinion

Let me know if/when that happens, I'll respond.

Otherwise, waste of time. I'm not going to get dragged into a fauxrage spin/lie bait thread.

[Alyosha]

Let me know if/when that happens, I'll respond.

Otherwise, waste of time. I'm not going to get dragged into a fauxrage spin/lie bait thread.

Hence why I supplied the local news...

The Sheriff’s Office will blanket crime-ridden neighborhoods, install surveillance cameras and knock on 18,000 doors in Northwest Jacksonville in an attempt to stop gun-related crime — which has spiked by 43 percent this year.

[Alyosha]

You have to be extremely stupid to think they are knocking just to say "hi".

[nic34]

Smacks of sherruf Joe's brownshirts.....

Give an inch, and you get what you ask for.....

[Alyosha]

Smacks of sherruf Joe's brownshirts.....

Give an inch, and you get what you ask for.....

That dude is an asshole. HUGE asshole.

[Polecat]

House to house search skills are a basic tool, for the Gestapo. I find this more revolting than sobriety check points. Your papers?

[zelmo1234]

I see no reason why the Jacksonville Police are not trying to put a stop to the violent crime.

I unlike others do not believe that making all drugs legal is going to end the crime involved with drug use. Yes I understand that there would be reasonable users, but in large part the body becomes addicted

I have NO issue with a camera in public places this is a public area one has no expectations of privacy,

I have REAL issues with the police going into a home without a warrant!

I like the interaction with the community, but am very skeptical that they will adhere to the constitution

[Captain Obvious]

The ACLU would be all over this like flies on shit if there were any truth to it.

Dismissed.

[zelmo1234]

You have to be extremely stupid to think they are knocking just to say "hi".

I agree.

I have no issue with them knocking handing out cards and letting the people know that they are trying to clean up the area, and if they see something please call.

I have great suspicions that this is not what they will do

[Alyosha]

The ACLU would be all over this like flies on shit if there were any truth to it.

Dismissed.

Why do you think they won't be? They don't solicit cases, clients come to them. I don't know if you understand how the ACLU works.

[nic34]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/assets_c/2011/10/joegoonsquad-thumb-500x251.jpg (http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/joegoonsquad.jpg)

[Polecat]

Probable cause will be the boot in the door. Police rarely interact with the public in a positive fashion.

[1751_Texan]

This sound more like police officials are using the...to co-opperated and let us in shows you are with us.
..." if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear".

The police would never do this type of opperation in an affluent neighborhood...not that illegal guns and drugs don't exist, because the police would be summarily told to go fuxk themselves.

A perception of uncontroled gun violence and drug dealing is not an argument to dream up this type of policing.

[Codename Section]

It's an excuse to peek in the front door.

[Peter1469]

Same principle as Stop and Fisk, and we know that was occurring.

[Cthulhu]

They are knocking on doors because it gives them any number of probable cause entry points. They can say they smelled something, noticed something.

It's a slow frog boil. Look at the Captain, he's justifying it and calls himself a moderate. The fact is that IS the moderate position now, next year the moderate position will be home entry, the year after that....who knows what?

Orwell is here.

Intercom and gated communities would have some measure of resistance to this wouldn't they?

[Cthulhu]

It's an excuse to peek in the front door.

And then invent some bull**** reason to kick it in. In the name of freedom and safety of the american way of life of course.

[Codename Section]

They get away with it because people don't care what happens in other people's neighborhoods or they don't believe. Then once it happens everywhere they're stuck with it.

[Chris]

"No, the ends do not justify the means"

What I voted, as ends never justify means in my book. But, further, we don't even know what the ends are, or that they're good.

[The Wash]

Naturally they will start this practice in low income neighborhoods where harassment is expected. It then sets a precedence for the future.

[nic34]

Intercom and gated communities would have some measure of resistance to this wouldn't they?

You don't think they'll be doing this in Romney's neighborhood do you?

[Common Sense]

Knocking on doors??? Oh the humanity!

[Codename Section]

Knocking on doors??? Oh the humanity!

You don't have our Bill of Rights. It's fine if you don't care.

[Chris]

Some feel safer in a police state.

[Common Sense]

You don't have our Bill of Rights. It's fine if you don't care.

You're right, we have a Charter of rights.

It's just door knocking...they do it whenever they're looking for a lost kid etc... I'm sure if you want you can ask them to leave your property.

The OP is exaggerating just a tad, don't you think?

"18,000 homes will receive a warrantless search"

That's simply untrue...but it makes a good headline.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the cops...but this isn't abuse.

[Codename Section]

You're right, we have a Charter of rights.

It's just door knocking...they do it whenever they're looking for a lost kid etc... I'm sure if you want you can ask them to leave your property.

The OP is exaggerating just a tad, don't you think?

"18,000 homes will receive a warrantless search"

That's simply untrue...but it makes a good headline.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the cops...but this isn't abuse.


It is in the US. The cops have no business going door to door to "prevent crime" in a nation where we have the presumption of innocence, and the 4th Amendment.

I personally don't want to be Canadian and you probably don't want to be American for these reasons.

[Chris]

It is in the US. The cops have no business going door to door to "prevent crime" in a nation where we have the presumption of innocence, and the 4th Amendment.

I personally don't want to be Canadian and you probably don't want to be American for these reasons.



Canada's Charter of Rights would protect against this as well: "8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."

Knocking on doors is search.

[Common Sense]

It is in the US. The cops have no business going door to door to "prevent crime" in a nation where we have the presumption of innocence, and the 4th Amendment.

I personally don't want to be Canadian and you probably don't want to be American for these reasons.

Our police are virtually identical (maybe yours are slightly more militarized) and we too are innocent until proven guilty.

I just don't see this as a huge deal. Just tell them to go away or don't answer the door.

[Common Sense]

Canada's Charter of Rights would protect against this as well: "8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."

Knocking on doors is search.

Coming inside is a search.

You don't have to answer the door.

[Codename Section]

Our police are virtually identical (maybe yours are slightly more militarized) and we too are innocent until proven guilty.

I just don't see this as a huge deal. Just tell them to go away or don't answer the door.

Our laws now let cops enter the home with "probable cause". You're not going to 18,000 ghetto homes to say "hi". Do you believe that?

The goal is to get guns out of homes. So you walk up and go "hi yall I'm the police, just saying hi".

Nawww, son.

[Common Sense]

Our laws now let cops enter the home with "probable cause". You're not going to 18,000 ghetto homes to say "hi". Do you believe that?

The goal is to get guns out of homes. So you walk up and go "hi yall I'm the police, just saying hi".

Nawww, son.

So what do you think they're going to do? Barge in and root around for guns? According to reports they've already knocked on 4000 doors. It's more of a show of force to the criminals and talking to people about crime in their neighborhoods.

What would you have them do about the crime epidemic in Jacksonville? Just wait for the bodies to pile up?

[Codename Section]

So what do you think they're going to do? Barge in and root around for guns? According to reports they've already knocked on 4000 doors. It's more of a show of force to the criminals and talking to people about crime in their neighborhoods.

What would you have them do about the crime epidemic in Jacksonville? Just wait for the bodies to pile up?

Yes. They've done just that. I'd empower the people of Jacksonville like we did in Iraq.

[Alyosha]

They've made several arrests for various issues just by knocking on doors. This would happen regardless of whose home, as there is always "probable cause" that lets them in and all of us break the law daily.

I recommend "Three Felonies a Day" for those who think they are law abiding.

There are better ways to accomplish what they want to accomplish without violating our rights.

[Chris]

Coming inside is a search.

You don't have to answer the door.


Coming to the door is search. What, you think there going door to door to sell shoes?

[Chris]

They've made several arrests for various issues just by knocking on doors. This would happen regardless of whose home, as there is always "probable cause" that lets them in and all of us break the law daily.

I recommend "Three Felonies a Day" for those who think they are law abiding.

There are better ways to accomplish what they want to accomplish without violating our rights.



This, I think, is exactly where the problem lies. The "innocent" knocking on doors leads to inventing probable cause to barge in and bust people.

[Alyosha]

This, I think, is exactly where the problem lies. The "innocent" knocking on doors leads to inventing probably cause to barge in and bust people.

It has! They're proud of the arrests so far. Thing is all of us break the law daily. Just too many laws. Let this become normal and you'll see a lot of good people behind bars.

[Refugee]

Ah, you're starting down the road of CCTV surveillance. Same excuse we had, 'It's for your own good'. I wondered how long it would take you lot to get around to it. This will of course be hailed a success and others towns and eventually States will join in. :smiley:

[Alyosha]

New York had them on every street corner. Although, to be honest I used them as much as possible get people out of trouble as an attorney. I caught cops in more than a few lies.

[Cthulhu]

New York had them on every street corner. Although, to be honest I used them as much as possible get people out of trouble as an attorney. I caught cops in more than a few lies.

It is a two edged sword. Problem is, who is holding the sword?

If they had the video files on display and neatly archived for all to access on demand via the internet? That would be one thing.

But when you have to request that information to condemn the guy you're requesting it from? Like say dash camera footage from police?

I dare say that is like trying to negotiate with a tiger who already has his teeth in your neck. What incentive does he have to comply with your piddly requests? Police footage goes missing all the time, or is magically corrupted somehow.

Mass surveillance be damned.

[lynn]

The problem is the legal system would suffer if the war on drugs was won. The dominate population in our prison system is drug related crimes. The bottom line is too many people would lose their jobs if the war on drugs was won so this attempt to go door to door to clean up the neighborhood is not about reducing drug activity. It is a gateway to losing more of our freedoms as we move into a dictatorship society.

[Chris]

It is a two edged sword. Problem is, who is holding the sword?

If they had the video files on display and neatly archived for all to access on demand via the internet? That would be one thing.

But when you have to request that information to condemn the guy you're requesting it from? Like say dash camera footage from police?

I dare say that is like trying to negotiate with a tiger who already has his teeth in your neck. What incentive does he have to comply with your piddly requests? Police footage goes missing all the time, or is magically corrupted somehow.

Mass surveillance be damned.


Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

No one.

[PolWatch]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/benjaminfr136955.html)
Benjamin Franklin (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/benjaminfr136955.html)

[Peter1469]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/benjaminfr136955.html)
Benjamin Franklin (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/benjaminfr136955.html)

That is an interesting quote. I wonder what Ben would say in the nuclear age. Don't check cargo that my contain a nuclear bomb that could destroy a port city? Or tell the people who think that it is wise to check the cargo to shut the fuck up and stop trading freedom for security?

[Alyosha]

That is an interesting quote. I wonder what Ben would say in the nuclear age. Don't check cargo that my contain a nuclear bomb that could destroy a port city? Or tell the people who think that it is wise to check the cargo to shut the fuck up and stop trading freedom for security?

I think that the owner of the port can demand that if someone wants to dock their ship there they consent to a search. I would.

[Cthulhu]

I think that the owner of the port can demand that if someone wants to dock their ship there they consent to a search. I would.

That exact policy is already in effect in many malls throughout america. A mall I did security at had it posted that if you didn't consent to a search by security on suspicion of foul play that you could be required to leave the premises.

[Alyosha]

The government has proven itself to be untrustworthy. It shouldn't have this power. Private owners should.

[nic34]

The government has proven itself to be untrustworthy. It shouldn't have this power. Private owners should.

They scare the bejesus out of me too....

[Alyosha]

They scare the bejesus out of me too....

Do you need some Febreze in your eye? Don't make me...

[Cthulhu]

They scare the bejesus out of me too....

While that may be true...you can still avoid them.

You can't avoid a government.:sad: