Does the Forum notice people leave high tax states to live in low tax states?

[Bob]

For the period from 2000 to 2008, the five states with the highest net migration were Florida, Arizona, Texas, North Carolina, and Georgia. Florida had almost double the number of the next state. Notice that three of the top five states—Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina—are in the South region.


State
Net Domestic Migration


Florida
1,278,573


Arizona
718,275


Texas
711,785


North Carolina
591,283


Georgia
514,903


The two states with the most domestic out-migration were New York and California, far exceeding the next three states on the list.


State
Net Domestic Migration


New York
-1,278,573


California
-718,275


Illinois
-711,785


Michigan
-591,283


New Jersey
-514,903

[Redrose]

For the period from 2000 to 2008, the five states with the highest net migration were Florida, Arizona, Texas, North Carolina, and Georgia. Florida had almost double the number of the next state. Notice that three of the top five states—Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina—are in the South region.


State
Net Domestic Migration


Florida
1,278,573


Arizona
718,275


Texas
711,785


North Carolina
591,283


Georgia
514,903


The two states with the most domestic out-migration were New York and California, far exceeding the next three states on the list.


State
Net Domestic Migration


New York
-1,278,573


California
-718,275


Illinois
-711,785


Michigan
-591,283


New Jersey
-514,903





All the states with flight are big liberal states, shocker!!!!
I wouldn't consider the Carolinas and Georgia as low tax states. They have a state income tax, Florida doesn't. I've lived in NY, NC and Florida. Property tax is high in many parts of NC. In Tenn. now, taxes are reasonable, no state income tax so our sales tax is 9.75%. My property tax on LI in the late eighties was $9100.00 per year, insane. Services there pay well, and NY State needs that $ to pay for all the liberal freebee programs. As people wake up and flee, those left behind will be taxed to death. Big government has a big appetite. It reminds me of the plant in "Little Shop of Horrors'.

Free stuff sounds great. But the recipients don't realize someone is paying dearly for their freebies. Redistribution of wealth causes major problems. Barry is gutting this nation.

[sachem]

No. Should I care where anyone lives? Besides myself.

[Mainecoons]

Too much taxation at all levels. Government is spending around 40 percent of national output. History shows us that when government co-opts this much wealth, things go into decline.

Exactly what is happening in America. Economic decline adding to social decline.

Government needs to be rolled back at all levels. We don't need to take money from the productive to either go around shutting down childrens' lemonaid stands or policing the world.

You want more wealth in the middle class, take back about 15 percent of the wealth being wasted on government.

[nic34]

Funny how the negative numbers are exactly the same as the positive numbers..... so all af Az's growth came from Cali?

riiiiight, bob.

[Common Sense]

Some of those are cold states to warm states...so I can see where they are coming from. Winter's a bitch.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Funny how the negative numbers are exactly the same as the positive numbers..... so all af Az's growth came from Cali?

riiiiight, bob.

The data is CLEARLY labelled "domestic."

All you have to do is read, nic. That's all it takes.

[nic34]

The data is CLEARLY labelled "domestic."

All you have to do is read, nic. That's all it takes.

So no one else moves to AZ from other US states?

Sure....

[GrassrootsConservative]

So no one else moves to AZ from other US states?

Sure....

I never said such a thing.

[Mainecoons]

These data say nothing about either where they went when they net left the liberal states or where they came from when they net moved into the other states.

There's something wrong here, though, the numbers should not be exactly equal. That is not possible.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQFjABOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gallup.com%2Fpoll%2F145397%2F states-losing-congressional-seats-tilt-democratic.aspx&ei=dsKQU5OpMoGj8AG29YCQAw&usg=AFQjCNHBHkVlPekcoyD-vchFvsHunxm90Q&sig2=_E-qlqM9zUiA-QaPAzz7Rw&bvm=bv.68445247,d.b2U

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2013/04/15/high-tax-states-are-losing-taxpayers

[Captain Obvious]

Un fucking believable.

:grin:

This guy calls me a "potty mouth" too...

:biglaugh:

Is it that time of the month for you, big guy? Someone pissing in your tostados?

[Bob]

No. Should I care where anyone lives? Besides myself.

Don't you live in a low tax state? If so, you are safe.

[Newpublius]

Too much taxation at all levels. Government is spending around 40 percent of national output. History shows us that when government co-opts this much wealth, things go into decline.

Exactly what is happening in America. Economic decline adding to social decline.

Government needs to be rolled back at all levels. We don't need to take money from the productive to either go around shutting down childrens' lemonaid stands or policing the world.

You want more wealth in the middle class, take back about 15 percent of the wealth being wasted on government.

Here in NJ, I was trying to explain how they hide taxes. People for instance know property taxes are high in NJ, but they hide it in the mortgage payment because the banks want to make sure they get paid. 5-6k is not uncommon here and commercial pays a lot more. But bottom line many 'main street' locations struggle. So, at a meeting I said, "well, if the people who paid the property taxes were allowed to keep more of their money....there'd be more money to spend in town. Instead note how all the local police forces have new police cruisers that cost a lot of money. Hmmm, think about that. Perhaps they should tighten their belts, take 10% pay cuts and drive 10 year old Corollas.....and maybe you should pay half as much in property taxes."

and that's why people do leave NJ, I'm just waiting on my wife.

Bottom line, it's just NOT a good deal.

[nic34]

These data say nothing about either where they went when they net left the liberal states or where they came from when they net moved into the other states.

There's something wrong here, though, the numbers should not be exactly equal. That is not possible.

Ya think!?

[nic34]

Don't you live in a low tax state? If so, you are safe.

bob, a source would help..... if not, one can be provided to you at no cost:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/migration/data/acs/state-to-state.html

[Bob]

Funny how the negative numbers are exactly the same as the positive numbers..... so all af Az's growth came from Cali?

riiiiight, bob.


Taxes do drive the population into the low taxed states yet some on the list are as Redrose points out, not the cheapest of taxed states. Weather is a factor. Per the pin heads in DC, the Northeast and Canada ought to be very toasty given the way they talk about the Arctic and Greenland. One would think they shed the parkas for bikinis by now.

What keeps CA population positive is though many of the natives flee or fled to states that favor them, including AZ, OR and others, such as Texas, our net immigration of foreign born remains super high.

[nic34]

This guy calls me a "potty mouth" too...

:biglaugh:

Is it that time of the month for you, big guy? Someone pissing in your tostados?

Seems that was cleaned up pronto!

[Bob]

bob, a source would help..... if not, one can be provided to you at no cost:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/migration/data/acs/state-to-state.html

My source is my real estate course. But with no password and account, none of you can use it.Their source is the source you posted. Thanks.

[Captain Obvious]

Here in NJ, I was trying to explain how they hide taxes. People for instance know property taxes are high in NJ, but they hide it in the mortgage payment because the banks want to make sure they get paid. 5-6k is not uncommon here and commercial pays a lot more. But bottom line many 'main street' locations struggle. So, at a meeting I said, "well, if the people who paid the property taxes were allowed to keep more of their money....there'd be more money to spend in town. Instead note how all the local police forces have new police cruisers that cost a lot of money. Hmmm, think about that. Perhaps they should tighten their belts, take 10% pay cuts and drive 10 year old Corollas.....and maybe you should pay half as much in property taxes."

and that's why people do leave NJ, I'm just waiting on my wife.

Bottom line, it's just NOT a good deal.

That's true most anywhere, taxes and property insurance is escrowed as part of the mortgage. Most lenders waive the escrow requirement if you finance a small part of the value of the property and/or over a shorter term. I have a small, short-term mortgage on my house and I pay my taxes when they are due - directly to the tax collector, always have.

That's not a NJ thing, but the half-witted consumer should know how much their taxes are. If they don't, it's nobody's fault but their own. And to hell with nannying these people, fuckem - let them pay then.

[nic34]

Taxes do drive the population into the low taxed states yet some on the list are as Redrose points out, not the cheapest of taxed states. Weather is a factor. Per the pin heads in DC, the Northeast and Canada ought to be very toasty given the way they talk about the Arctic and Greenland. One would think they shed the parkas for bikinis by now.

What keeps CA population positive is though many of the natives flee or fled to states that favor them, including AZ, OR and others, such as Texas, our net immigration of foreign born remains super high.

Well, you are the big guy on the block and in a super location...

[Mainecoons]

Bob, what is your source? I don't see it in the OP.

If you do a little reading on this, there are two indicators that are a lot more telling: Shift in wealth and loss/gain of Congressional seats. Both really show net migration from high tax big government states to lower tax/smaller government ones.

[Bob]

Too much taxation at all levels. Government is spending around 40 percent of national output. History shows us that when government co-opts this much wealth, things go into decline.

Exactly what is happening in America. Economic decline adding to social decline.

Government needs to be rolled back at all levels. We don't need to take money from the productive to either go around shutting down childrens' lemonaid stands or policing the world.

You want more wealth in the middle class, take back about 15 percent of the wealth being wasted on government.

Okay, good points. Did you add in the state, county and local share to get your 40 percent

All added up, your burden is a lot higher than that.

You not only pay taxes on income, but on investments and sales taxes and those are far from being the only sources to the government for revenue. e.g. we can for instance also add property taxes.

[Bob]

Bob, what is your source? I don't see it in the OP.

If you do a little reading on this, there are two indicators that are a lot more telling: Shift in wealth and loss/gain of Congressional seats. Both really show net migration from high tax big government states to lower tax/smaller government ones.

It is a course for Real estate Brokers that I am currently taking. I am nearly finished. I hoped to share some of what I learned in the course. They do mention sources from time to time. I shall take your comments into account. First I must conclude the course and many tests.

[Newpublius]

That's true most anywhere, taxes and property insurance is escrowed as part of the mortgage. Most lenders waive the escrow requirement if you finance a small part of the value of the property and/or over a shorter term. I have a small, short-term mortgage on my house and I pay my taxes when they are due - directly to the tax collector, always have.

That's not a NJ thing, but the half-witted consumer should know how much their taxes are. If they don't, it's nobody's fault but their own. And to hell with nannying these people, fuckem - let them pay then.

Well, i know the banks do it nationwide, the main point still remains how governments usurp people's buying power but governments don't seem to want for anything. Police cars are a prime example of course. The state police, obviously funded by state, not property taxes, are now driving SUV's on the GSP.....it's not their money, they just don't care.

[Bob]

I posted directly from the course. Now that I look harder at the OP, I see the problem with the numbers being the same precise figures up and down the line in both charts. I plan to notify the course they have a problem.

[Redrose]

No. Should I care where anyone lives? Besides myself.

Ignorance and apathy....I don't know and I don't care.

[Redrose]

Some of those are cold states to warm states...so I can see where they are coming from. Winter's a bitch.

43 years in cold NY drove us to Florida. Our heating bills were outrageous in NY. But in Florida our electric bills were equally bad. No gain there. Add to that the miserable job market and low pay, storm damage and sink holes, we went back towards the north. People migrate for many reasons but IMO finances are the biggest reason.

[Bob]

43 years in cold NY drove us to Florida. Our heating bills were outrageous in NY. But in Florida our electric bills were equally bad. No gain there. Add to that the miserable job market and low pay, storm damage and sink holes, we went back towards the north. People migrate for many reasons but IMO finances are the biggest reason.

I knew a man who once e mailed me till AOL got rid of my account, that he departed NY City upon retirement to move to I believe it was North Carolina where his daughter bought a 4500 sq ft home for about $400,000 as I recall because he wanted to be close to his kids. She moved to NC because they became huge in banking. If it is not North Carolina, then it is South Carolina. Anybody know which major city became huge in banking? They bailed out of NY City shortly ahead of the market crash.

[Redrose]

I knew a man who once e mailed me till AOL got rid of my account, that he departed NY City upon retirement to move to I believe it was North Carolina where his daughter bought a 4500 sq ft home for about $400,000 as I recall because he wanted to be close to his kids. She moved to NC because they became huge in banking. If it is not North Carolina, then it is South Carolina. Anybody know which major city became huge in banking? They bailed out of NY City shortly ahead of the market crash.

Charlotte, North Carolina. Beautiful area. Big in banking.

[Kalkin]

No. Should I care where anyone lives? Besides myself.
The lesson to be learned is that high taxation drives those with the means to relocate to greener, (ie less taxed) pastures.

[sachem]

Ignorance and apathy....I don't know and I don't care.That's you.

Me? I worry about my friends and family.

[Mainecoons]

Exactly. There's a whole bunch of data out there on that.

[sachem]

The lesson to be learned is that high taxation drives those with the means to relocate to greener, (ie less taxed) pastures.Duh.

[Kalkin]

Me? I worry about my friends and family.
Are they in danger?

[sachem]

Are they in danger?My sister was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. So yeah. Some are.

[sachem]

My sister was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. So yeah. Some are.But she isn't moving to another state,

[Kalkin]

My sister was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. So yeah. Some are.
Sorry to hear that. I hope she recovers.

[sachem]

Sorry to hear that. I hope she recovers.Thank you.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned it.

[Redrose]

My sister was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. So yeah. Some are.

Sorry to hear about your sister. Hope all goes well for her. My 32 year old daughter is going through a cancer scare now and my 40 year old God daughter is terminal with breast cancer that has spread everywhere. They give her less than a year.
We must put our family first, that is why I am so impassioned on this political topic. When I leave this world I want to know I did everything in my power to leave them a better country than we found it.

[sachem]

Sorry to hear about your sister. Hope all goes well for her. My 32 year old daughter is going through a cancer scare now and my 40 year old God daughter is terminal with breast cancer that has spread everywhere. They give her less than a year.
We must put our family first, that is why I am so impassioned on this political topic. When I leave this world I want to know I did everything in my power to leave them a better country than we found it.I hope everything goes well for your daughter. May your god daughter not suffer.
I understand your sentiments and I believe most of us want the same thing.

[Redrose]

I agree wholeheartedly, all of us want a good, happy, healthy secure life. We're all trying to achieve that from various angles. If we all thought alike, life would be very dull. I'm just so tired of our government manipulating the truth. They have all been guilty of that, but this Administration has made lying to us an art form.

[Refugee]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562093/TRIPLE-usual-number-Americans-renounce-citizenship.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562093/TRIPLE-usual-number-Americans-renounce-citizenship.html)

7791

The figures themselves aren’t unduly large, it’s what is starting to happen that is worrying? The problem with American emigration is that you’re still taxed by American standards, even if you don’t live or work there. Americans are required to show the IRS what tax they’ve paid outside of the U.S. on their return. Many tell me it’s like an inquisition when you return. It’s bizarre.

If you compare the countries of Europe as a sort of collection of States, the same thing is happening there. The UK has lost around 10% of its productive age skilled and professional citizens to emigration, yet the population is rising. That’s because it’s the middle classes who are fleeing and being replaced in many cases by destitute third world and European immigrants from the poor former Eastern European block countries. In the end there simply isn’t anyone left to pay the welfare, hospitals operate at breaking point, housing is short, schools reach their capacity and the whole thing starts to fall apart. The difference between the UK and the U.S. is that you can flee to other States, whereas we have a centralized government – there’s nowhere within the country to flee to, all parts are the same.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1579345/Biggest-brain-drain-from-UK-in-50-years.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1579345/Biggest-brain-drain-from-UK-in-50-years.html)

“Britain is experiencing the worst "brain drain" of any country as highly qualified professionals settle abroad, an authoritative international study showed yesterday.
Record numbers of Britons are leaving - many of them doctors, teachers and engineers - in the biggest exodus for almost 50 years.

Just like the former East Germany and today N. Korea, people who have skills are fleeing those countries with centralized governments or mass welfare programs. This is what the UK is getting in return and if you have mass welfare, it’s why the UK is collapsing.

7792 7793

[sachem]

Let them leave. They have that choice.

[Redrose]

Refugee, in 2003 the last time I visited my cousins in England (Erdington, Birmingham) I was saddened. That area in particular has lost it's British charm. I thought I was in the Middle East. When I was there in '72 it was still very British, there was a wonderful little shop near my mom's old house. It was owned by a lovely old couple. I found the shop, it had been sold and was now a shop selling newspapers and various sundries. The owner wore a turban and spoke little discernible English. My cousins make good money but they are disgusted. One day Buckingham Palace will be a large Mosque.

[Bob]

Refugee, in 2003 the last time I visited my cousins in England (Erdington, Birmingham) I was saddened. That area in particular has lost it's British charm. I thought I was in the Middle East. When I was there in '72 it was still very British, there was a wonderful little shop near my mom's old house. It was owned by a lovely old couple. I found the shop, it had been sold and was now a shop selling newspapers and various sundries. The owner wore a turban and spoke little discernible English. My cousins make good money but they are disgusted. One day Buckingham Palace will be a large Mosque.

I have heard England is infested with Muslims.

[Codename Section]

No. Should I care where anyone lives? Besides myself.

I care because they move to lower tax areas then do things that drive the taxes up. If they want all that shit they should stay where they are.

[Mainecoons]

Arizona and Nevada being absolutely classic examples of what you wrote.

[Bob]

Let them leave. They have that choice.

It is a choice, but imagine in your city by your house, you suddenly faced Allah daily. That the local Mosque called them to daily prayers 5 times per day. That the local children had no clue what kids told them because the locals speak English?

How can you be so insensitive to England's problems?

[Redrose]

It is. The UK has so many possessions these people can go to England quite easily. Look at the young soldier that was butchered in London. England screwed up big time and we're not far behind.

[darroll]

My wife's doctor is missing?
They won't tell her a thing until August?
Why she must of been kidnapped and not the tax the rich crap.

[sachem]

It is a choice, but imagine in your city by your house, you suddenly faced Allah daily. That the local Mosque called them to daily prayers 5 times per day. That the local children had no clue what kids told them because the locals speak English?

How can you be so insensitive to England's problems?It's easy. Most of my ancestors are Irish.

[1751_Texan]

All the states with flight are big liberal states, shocker!!!!
I wouldn't consider the Carolinas and Georgia as low tax states. They have a state income tax, Florida doesn't. I've lived in NY, NC and Florida. Property tax is high in many parts of NC. In Tenn. now, taxes are reasonable, no state income tax so our sales tax is 9.75%. My property tax on LI in the late eighties was $9100.00 per year, insane. Services there pay well, and NY State needs that $ to pay for all the liberal freebee programs. As people wake up and flee, those left behind will be taxed to death. Big government has a big appetite. It reminds me of the plant in "Little Shop of Horrors'.

Free stuff sounds great. But the recipients don't realize someone is paying dearly for their freebies. Redistribution of wealth causes major problems. Barry is gutting this nation.

Not all services are welfare. More people means more services. Police, fire, schools, utilites.

Guess what... more services means more taxes.

[Refugee]

It's easy. Most of my ancestors are Irish.

One of the poorest parts of Europe now.

[sachem]

One of the poorest parts of Europe now.Always been the n*****s of Europe.

[Refugee]

Refugee, in 2003 the last time I visited my cousins in England (Erdington, Birmingham) I was saddened. That area in particular has lost it's British charm. I thought I was in the Middle East. When I was there in '72 it was still very British, there was a wonderful little shop near my mom's old house. It was owned by a lovely old couple. I found the shop, it had been sold and was now a shop selling newspapers and various sundries. The owner wore a turban and spoke little discernible English. My cousins make good money but they are disgusted. One day Buckingham Palace will be a large Mosque.

I know Birmingham quite well. 2003? You need to go back now, it's largely a no-go area. Yes, the UK has a terrible problem with Muslims especially, as does most of Europe. The UK today, have a quick read. I'm not sorry I left.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html

[Kalkin]

Not all services are welfare. More people means more services. Police, fire, schools, utilites.

Guess what... more services means more taxes.
By your own admission, there will be more people. Therefore, taxes won't need to go up as the pool of taxpayers is larger. Next.

[Bob]

Not all services are welfare. More people means more services. Police, fire, schools, utilites.

Guess what... more services means more taxes.

Here is the thing .... since they also pay taxes, there is no excuse for rates going up. They pay for what they use. Simple.

[Redrose]

Not all services are welfare. More people means more services. Police, fire, schools, utilites.

Guess what... more services means more taxes.

That's what I was trying to say, Police, Firefighter, etc. were paid well. That is one reason our taxes were so high. My home that I sold on LI in 1990 now has property taxes of $14,200 annually. Insane.

[Refugee]

By your own admission, there will be more people. Therefore, taxes won't need to go up as the pool of taxpayers is larger. Next.

Assuming the influx of people are employed and pay taxes?