Red Ink Flowing; Sgt Bergdahl etc

[Bob]

http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=3355873%3ABlogPost%3A2860760&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post



“With Honor and Distinction”.
This phrase did at one time elicit strong emotions of pride within me. At this moment, it feels like the term has been badly soiled. This phrase was, at least in my mind, reserved for those who have served this nation. Although most often applied to members of the military; not exclusively so.
And I always felt that sense of pride because as a disabled veteran I felt a kinship with those who had earned the accolade. One of my bosses in years past and a long time friend wears a small blue ribbon with thirteen white stars on it. He served with honor and distinction. The medal on his chest only acknowledges that fact; his actions defined the truth of it.
Those of us who served honorably were rewarded with an “Honorable Discharge” and for most of us that simple government form stating that we had served honorably was the only reward we asked for. It is what we strived for. It is what we and our families sacrificed so much for. There was no greater goal for us than to proclaim that we had served our country honorably.
With distinction?
That designation was never sought but was bestowed on those who served by the strength of their character framed in unique circumstances as is the case with my friend with that small blue ribbon.
The so called “prisoner swap” of five top level Taliban terrorist for Sergeant Berdahl has been very upsetting from the moment it was announced as I have said in previous posts. The overwhelming evidence provided by his fellow team members has raised serious questions as to the character of that person.
In the very best of circumstances Sergeant Berdahl is most likely guilty of desertion. Desertion is one of the four remaining charges punishable by death under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). There is sufficient anecdotal information surfacing to strongly suggest that Sergeant Berdahl may also be guilty of treason. The military has confirmed that a “capture or kill” order was issued in the search for this person.

[Blackrook]

Obama is a Communist terrorist sympathizer who has nothing but contempt for this nation and all who serve her in uniform.

[Montoya]

Obama is a Communist terrorist sympathizer who has nothing but contempt for this nation and all who serve her in uniform.

Dude shut up and go back to shoveling cheeseburgers down your gut.

[momsapplepie]

Pay no mind to the unicorn fart choomin crowd. Obama is a disgrace to our nation.

[Montoya]

Pay no mind to the unicorn fart choomin crowd. Obama is a disgrace to our nation.

And you're just another ignorant hillbilly.

[Matty]

And you're just another ignorant hillbilly.

You're a cretin living under a cow turd. I like the hillbilly.

[zelmo1234]

It appears to me that President Obama Traded 5 very dangerous people for a deserter! Now I could be wrong and would happily change my opinion if further evidence comes out!

Now we would expect that the commander and chief knew of this situation, but there is of course the chance that he did not! Either way this does not shine a positive light on him in this situation!

So a logical person would at least admit that this looks like he mad a bad deal? Now there have been other Presidents that mad a bad deal! So he is not alone

What I do not understand is why Democrats/Liberals can't admit that Obama has ever made a mistake? maybe you can help me with this Montoya?

If the information that we now have is true? Do you think it is possible that the President made a mistake? Or can't you see that at all?

[momsapplepie]

Did a gnat buzz by? Damn, I missed swatting it!

[Dr. Who]

Montoya and Matalese, insults are non-responsive. Please address the substance of the posts.

[nic34]

http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=3355873%3ABlogPost%3A2860760&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post



“With Honor and Distinction”.
This phrase did at one time elicit strong emotions of pride within me. At this moment, it feels like the term has been badly soiled. This phrase was, at least in my mind, reserved for those who have served this nation. Although most often applied to members of the military; not exclusively so.
And I always felt that sense of pride because as a disabled veteran I felt a kinship with those who had earned the accolade. One of my bosses in years past and a long time friend wears a small blue ribbon with thirteen white stars on it. He served with honor and distinction. The medal on his chest only acknowledges that fact; his actions defined the truth of it.
Those of us who served honorably were rewarded with an “Honorable Discharge” and for most of us that simple government form stating that we had served honorably was the only reward we asked for. It is what we strived for. It is what we and our families sacrificed so much for. There was no greater goal for us than to proclaim that we had served our country honorably.
With distinction?
That designation was never sought but was bestowed on those who served by the strength of their character framed in unique circumstances as is the case with my friend with that small blue ribbon.
The so called “prisoner swap” of five top level Taliban terrorist for Sergeant Berdahl has been very upsetting from the moment it was announced as I have said in previous posts. The overwhelming evidence provided by his fellow team members has raised serious questions as to the character of that person.
In the very best of circumstances Sergeant Berdahl is most likely guilty of desertion. Desertion is one of the four remaining charges punishable by death under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). There is sufficient anecdotal information surfacing to strongly suggest that Sergeant Berdahl may also be guilty of treason. The military has confirmed that a “capture or kill” order was issued in the search for this person.

Still posting with no facts, Bob?

SOP eh?

[keymanjim]

Still posting with no facts, Bob?

SOP eh?
Why don't you tell us what the 'facts' are?

[Bob]

Still posting with no facts, Bob?

SOP eh?

So, what are your facts????

SOP for you is not offering them in cases such as this.

[Adelaide]

I don't know whether he his guilty of the things people are claiming; I'm pretty sure I don't have clearance and neither do most if not all of them.

That said, I don't agree with the swap whether he is guilty or not. Something makes me seriously wonder what the fuck is actually the true story because even Obama wouldn't trade 5 terrorists like that, I don't think. Bergdahl would or should have been aware that if he were captured he wouldn't be swapped due to the whole 'not negotiating with terrorists' thing, which is a fundamental reason I don't agree with giving 5 high-ranking terrorists for one soldier aware of the reality of capture. I don't think Obama would just hand them over, either. There has to be something the US got in return that made this swap worth it beyond just one life (as callous and horrible as that sounds).

[Peter1469]

I don't think the US got anything out of the trade.

What interests me more is why the Taliban kept this guy alive for so long. Everyone else they captured were treated differently.

And I am not sure we considered this to be negotiating with terrorists. Since the invasion of Afghanistan we considered the Taliban to be legitimate sovereigns - in charge of the state of Afghanistan. Of course we did kick them out of power but I don't think that we changed that policy.




I don't know whether he his guilty of the things people are claiming; I'm pretty sure I don't have clearance and neither do most if not all of them.

That said, I don't agree with the swap whether he is guilty or not. Something makes me seriously wonder what the fuck is actually the true story because even Obama wouldn't trade 5 terrorists like that, I don't think. Bergdahl would or should have been aware that if he were captured he wouldn't be swapped due to the whole 'not negotiating with terrorists' thing, which is a fundamental reason I don't agree with giving 5 high-ranking terrorists for one soldier aware of the reality of capture. I don't think Obama would just hand them over, either. There has to be something the US got in return that made this swap worth it beyond just one life (as callous and horrible as that sounds).

[Mainecoons]

And your facts are where in your post, Nic?

Very well hidden as usual. :grin:

[Matty]

I don't know whether he his guilty of the things people are claiming; I'm pretty sure I don't have clearance and neither do most if not all of them.

That said, I don't agree with the swap whether he is guilty or not. Something makes me seriously wonder what the fuck is actually the true story because even Obama wouldn't trade 5 terrorists like that, I don't think. Bergdahl would or should have been aware that if he were captured he wouldn't be swapped due to the whole 'not negotiating with terrorists' thing, which is a fundamental reason I don't agree with giving 5 high-ranking terrorists for one soldier aware of the reality of capture. I don't think Obama would just hand them over, either. There has to be something the US got in return that made this swap worth it beyond just one life (as callous and horrible as that sounds).


What obama got was the satisfaction of telling the American people and the Congress to "fuck off, I'm above the law" he should be impeached.

[1751_Texan]

It appears to me that President Obama Traded 5 very dangerous people for a deserter! Now I could be wrong and would happily change my opinion if further evidence comes out!

Now we would expect that the commander and chief knew of this situation, but there is of course the chance that he did not! Either way this does not shine a positive light on him in this situation!

So a logical person would at least admit that this looks like he mad a bad deal? Now there have been other Presidents that mad a bad deal! So he is not alone

What I do not understand is why Democrats/Liberals can't admit that Obama has ever made a mistake? maybe you can help me with this Montoya?

If the information that we now have is true? Do you think it is possible that the President made a mistake? Or can't you see that at all?

Why would a logical person use unsubstantiated information to make a determination without facts?

How is that logical?

[Matty]

Why would a logical person use unsubstantiated information to make a determination without facts?

How is that logical?
What information do you think is mis represented? Is that as bad as Rice saying "he served honorably and with distinction" when the records say otherwise. Every soldier to a person who served with this guy says he deserted. Do you honestly believe this administration will tell you the truth? They never have before.

[nathanbforrest45]

You're a cretin living under a cow turd. I like the hillbilly.


I am not a Hillbilly. I done got educated so now I am a Mountain Wiliam

[nic34]

I don't know whether he his guilty of the things people are claiming; I'm pretty sure I don't have clearance and neither do most if not all of them.

That said, I don't agree with the swap whether he is guilty or not. Something makes me seriously wonder what the fuck is actually the true story because even Obama wouldn't trade 5 terrorists like that, I don't think. Bergdahl would or should have been aware that if he were captured he wouldn't be swapped due to the whole 'not negotiating with terrorists' thing, which is a fundamental reason I don't agree with giving 5 high-ranking terrorists for one soldier aware of the reality of capture. I don't think Obama would just hand them over, either. There has to be something the US got in return that made this swap worth it beyond just one life (as callous and horrible as that sounds).

That's the thing Addy, no one at this point knows for sure about Berg's actions and the real reasons behind his release. But there are a lot of folks around that are sure THEY do, and are ready to line him up in front of a firing squad right now..... and impeach a president for something they don't have all the facts about.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty these days?

[nic34]

What information do you think is mis represented? Is that as bad as Rice saying "he served honorably and with distinction" when the records say otherwise. Every soldier to a person who served with this guy says he deserted. Do you honestly believe this administration will tell you the truth? They never have before.

Case in point..... vigilante justice ..... no trial or investigation.

ever seen the movie "The Oxbow Incident"?

[nic34]

I am not a Hillbilly. I done got educated so now I am a Mountain Wiliam

:laugh:

[Matty]

That's the thing Addy, no one at this point knows for sure about Berg's actions and the real reasons behind his release. But there are a lot of folks around that are sure THEY do, and are ready to line him up in front of a firing squad right now..... and impeach a president for something they don't have all the facts about.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty these days?


so you are declaring the eyewitness's to the event liars. Got it.

[Matty]

Case in point..... vigilante justice ..... no trial or investigation.

ever seen the movie "The Oxbow Incident"?


I think every soldier to a person said he should be court martialed. If I'm not mistaken that involves a trial. What think you?

[Bob]

I don't know whether he his guilty of the things people are claiming; I'm pretty sure I don't have clearance and neither do most if not all of them.

That said, I don't agree with the swap whether he is guilty or not. Something makes me seriously wonder what the fuck is actually the true story because even Obama wouldn't trade 5 terrorists like that, I don't think. Bergdahl would or should have been aware that if he were captured he wouldn't be swapped due to the whole 'not negotiating with terrorists' thing, which is a fundamental reason I don't agree with giving 5 high-ranking terrorists for one soldier aware of the reality of capture. I don't think Obama would just hand them over, either. There has to be something the US got in return that made this swap worth it beyond just one life (as callous and horrible as that sounds).
Peter1469 is both in the Army and a lawyer. I defer of course to him on matters of law.

However this case involves a soldier. Soldiers are to obey lawful orders. This is the deal they agreed to when they took that first oath as a soldier. If you don't want to obey orders, do not become a soldier.

Bergdahl's story is best told by his fellow troopers. They do not support him. One would think if he were innocent, they would back him fully. Support or no support is not the test for deserters.

He did not have permission to leave his post. Posts in combat areas are not like Ft. Benning or Ft. Dix are. Even when one comes in late to American forts, they are subject to punishment. Article 15 is generally used for those who do not show up on time.

Say Ft. Benning has guards at the entrance, which they do. And you are in a particular company and you got a pass for 3 days. A pass, when I was in the army was limited to 3 days. After that, it was charged as leave.

It is important because if you have, let's say, 60 days of accrued leave, (unless the Army has changed it) and muster out, you will be paid 60 days per leave pay for that period.

A 3 day pass has no impact on leave time nor is your time away from post charged against leave time.

Bergdahl being in a combat zone was following stricter rules than in the USA. There he should not ever have been able to go AWOL. There were enemy all over. For him to leave his base put his life at risk. And he would be violating his normal standing orders.

Anyway, when he bailed out, at the least he was AWOL which is punishable. As to desertion, I have seen some Military lawyer experts discuss this and it is not quite so simple as to simply call him a deserter as I once supposed.

Swapping a person who only was promoted due to the Army feeling sorry for him, and not merit who mentally was a PFC (E-3) until he later found out he was an E-5, for 5 senior Taliban simply had to be because Obama wanted to come out the hero. This is supposed to help Obama and nobody else.

What bugs the hell out of me are the dead who were killed in action trying to find this person. Parents lost sons because they had to go try to find Bergdahl. That has to be part of the mix. How can we forget the fallen who died because of what Bergdahl did?

[Bob]

What Bergdahl reminds me most of is a PFC Crose I served with. In the event Crose finds this, if he has a problem, let him take it up with me.

Anyway, I met Crose when i got to Germany. He was super sharp. I mean his creases in his uniform seemed just a tad sharper than the rest of the guys. Crose looked to me like he wanted a full career in the Army.

I can't explain when he crossed over. But Crose told me he intended to become such a FU that the Army would be happy to be rid of him. I saw him show up in rumpled uniforms. He would disobey orders. There was no doubt he was headed for jail.

The CO was forced to hand him Article 15 upon Article 15. Crose begged for them.

I recall doing the papers that got Crose kicked out of the Army. Crose told me he was going home and his plan worked to perfection.

Did he serve with honor and distinction?

No. Did he have a care? You decide.

[The Sage of Main Street]

@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) is both in the Army and a lawyer. I defer of course to him on matters of law.

However this case involves a soldier. Soldiers are to obey lawful orders. This is the deal they agreed to when they took that first oath as a soldier. If you don't want to obey orders, do not become a soldier.

Bergdahl's story is best told by his fellow troopers. They do not support him. One would think if he were innocent, they would back him fully. Support or no support is not the test for deserters.

Bergdahl being in a combat zone was following stricter rules than in the USA. There he should not ever have been able to go AWOL. There were enemy all over. For him to leave his base put his life at risk. And he would be violating his normal standing orders.

Anyway, when he bailed out, at the least he was AWOL which is punishable. As to desertion, I have seen some Military lawyer experts discuss this and it is not quite so simple as to simply call him a deserter as I once supposed.

Obama and nobody else.

What bugs the hell out of me are the dead who were killed in action trying to find this person. Parents lost sons because they had to go try to find Bergdahl. That has to be part of the mix. How can we forget the fallen who died because of what Bergdahl did? If his fellow soldiers thought he was a deserter, they wouldn't have tried to bring him back, not even to be court-martialed. The second fishy thing is that it is far too dangerous to go walking off a base in a combat zone. I imagine that he heard something he wanted to investigate, but got captured.

[Bob]

If his fellow soldiers thought he was a deserter, they wouldn't have tried to bring him back, not even to be court-martialed. The second fishy thing is that it is far too dangerous to go walking off a base in a combat zone. I imagine that he heard something he wanted to investigate, but got captured.

I had hoped you actually understood how the Army works. His fellow soldiers operated under orders they received. A soldier that hears something has the duty to notify his superior.

I can't recall verbatim all the standing orders, but they are still there, still in operation and still working.

http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/military-general-orders.html