American musings

[Refugee]

I’m aware that America is very materialistic and I agree, perhaps too much so. What I can’t understand is this recent fascination with, “He’s got more than me, tax/kill the rich”. You are aware that it’s Socialism/Communism you’re parroting?

Smash Capitalism? Replace it with what; some fairy tale idea of equal shares that sounds nice, but you and all the rest of all humanity in history haven’t quite worked out how to achieve yet?

If you’re unemployed, you do realize that the only reason you have welfare is because you live under a capitalist system that creates wealth to pay for it, because in your ideas of individualism and Communism, there wouldn’t be a mass welfare State.

You vote in a Marxist who says he’s a Democrat because you wanted an unspecified change and thought it meant a more equal society. Then you find out equality means mass welfare and you have the biggest rich/poor divide in history? Duh, I wonder how that happened? (You are aware that the people selling you all this are all multi-millionaires themselves)?

Your politics are different from the rest of the world, your mindsets, your definitions . . . . . you’re a collection of States and can’t even agree amongst yourselves. I can see one objective of your Federal government will be to bring you in line and if not actually abolish, start to blur the lines of State independence. It could never happen? When enough of you become dependent on the government for your welfare, your medical care, your education . . . . it might well be possible.

I’m not America bashing, I wouldn’t waste my time on an American forum just to bash it. I’m just telling you what America is looking like to outsiders and giving you comparisons to the way Europe went in its search for the elusive equality dream. With that, I’ll start to ease off a bit as I can sense it’s not to the liking of many. :smiley:

[Matty]

Well, since your musing were entirely negative I would say that you were in fact America bashing. But that's okay we're used to it. That's all we ever get from the rest of the world which is why I always say. There is not one person on the face of the earth worth the life of an American soldier. Kerry on.

[Peter1469]

Yes, the unequal distribution of wealth meme is tiresome. Most people in the US have better quality lives than the majority of all humans in history.

[Refugee]

Well, since your musing were entirely negative I would say that you were in fact America bashing. But that's okay we're used to it. That's all we ever get from the rest of the world which is why I always say. There is not one person on the face of the earth worth the life of an American soldier. Kerry on.

I’d like very much to say something positive, but like 99% of the rest of the forum, (not just me), I’m struggling. It’s not just the rest of the world Matalese, Americans themselves on the forum are starting to question what’s happening.

“There is not one person on the face of the earth worth the life of an American soldier.”

Yes there is; that’s the life of any other soldier who is another mothers son. When you understand that you’ll also begin to understand the world’s negativity.

[Matty]

The fact that at the end he had to deny America bashing tells me he knew he was America bashing. Shit, if you're going to bash America be man enough to own it.

[Matty]

I’d like very much to say something positive, but like 99% of the rest of the forum, (not just me), I’m struggling. It’s not just the rest of the world Matalese, Americans themselves on the forum are starting to question what’s happening.

“There is not one person on the face of the earth worth the life of an American soldier.”

Yes there is; that’s the life of any other soldier who is another mothers son. When you understand that you’ll also begin to understand the world’s negativity.



Tell ya what, too many Americans have already died bailing out the rest of the world who now engages in America bashing. You people aren't worth dying for. Not now, not ever.

[Mainecoons]

Exactly. So why are we still doing it?

Answer: Control Freak government addicted to foreign military misadventurism despite the fact that a majority of the country have had enough of it.

[Matty]

Exactly. So why are we still doing it?

Answer: Control Freak government addicted to foreign military misadventurism despite the fact that a majority of the country have had enough of it.


Not a single person in my immediate family will ever join the military. I will do what I can to talk them out of it. Every time I start a 'Memorial Day or D Day thread on this forum people like Montoya and Exotix walk in and shit all over it. They aren't worth dying for either. Let their offspring join. Mine won't.

[Refugee]

Tell ya what, too many Americans have already died bailing out the rest of the world who now engages in America bashing. You people aren't worth dying for. Not now, not ever.

Bailing out? Gook, geeks, slant eyes, commies v American hero’s. It depends on what side of the fence you’re sitting on, doesn’t it? I was wounded in N. Ireland in the early 80’s and there’s nothing romantic about lying on a stretcher.

Your government lied to you about Iraq, the corporations made billions out of it and your soldiers went over and smashed the ‘ragheads’. You all cheered. If you had come out into the streets in your millions to protest instead? You’re now starting to draw red lines in the world daring others to cross them; another disaster waiting to happen, but this time against super powers. That's not America bashing, that's 'sucker' bashing.

[Matty]

Bailing out? Gook, geeks, slant eyes, commies v American hero’s. It depends on what side of the fence you’re sitting on, doesn’t it? I was wounded in N. Ireland in the early 80’s and there’s nothing romantic about lying on a stretcher.

Your government lied to you about Iraq, the corporations made billions out of it and your soldiers went over and smashed the ‘ragheads’. You all cheered. If you had come out into the streets in your millions to protest instead? You’re now starting to draw red lines in the world daring others to cross them; another disaster waiting to happen, but this time against super powers. That's not America bashing, that's 'sucker' bashing.

Whatever. Bash the fuck away. You are still not worth an American soldiers life. Never will be. Fight your own damn wars.

[Refugee]

Whatever. Bash the fuck away. You are still not worth an American soldiers life. Never will be. Fight your own damn wars.

There are no wars to fight unless you make them. If you want to do something for American servicemen/women, try protesting instead of glorifying it all. If your government wasn’t so busy running round the world destabilizing it with regime changes and policing, you wouldn’t now need a Homeland Security and be at risk from going anywhere near the other half the world. That’s not bashing, that’s the rest of the world telling you. Ask yourself this: What do you personally get out of invasions, what do the dead and maimed servicemen get out of it and what do Big Business get out of it?

Yes whatever and your life isn’t worth one dollar from the billions Cheney and his friends made either. No one wants any more wars, but everywhere there are conflicts, you’ll see American business sniffing around them. Is it blasphemy to say that?

[Matty]

There are no wars to fight unless you make them. If you want to do something for American servicemen/women, try protesting instead of glorifying it all. If your government wasn’t so busy running round the world destabilizing it with regime changes and policing, you wouldn’t now need a Homeland Security and be at risk from going anywhere near the other half the world. That’s not bashing, that’s the rest of the world telling you. Ask yourself this: What do you personally get out of invasions, what do the dead and maimed servicemen get out of it and what do Big Business get out of it?

Yes whatever and your life isn’t worth one dollar from the billions Cheney and his friends made either. No one wants any more wars, but everywhere there are conflicts, you’ll see American business sniffing around them. Is it blasphemy to say that?

History did not start with President Bush and Vice President Cheney. The USA did not start World War One or two, we did not start Vietnam, we did not start Korea. We also didn't start the Gulf war either. Russia is about to roll over Ukraine, Poland and God knows who else. Think you can handle that without we American warmongerers? Or, are you just a fucking hypocrite who wants to tell us which wars to fight?

your tunnel vision of history is exactly what makes you not worth dying for. Fight your own damn wars.

[Peter1469]

Warning: stop calling other members names.

[Matty]

There is no person on this earth worth the life of an American soldier. Especially those who don't remember history. So bash away.

[Refugee]

History did not start with President Bush and Vice President Cheney. The USA did not start World War One or two, we did not start Vietnam, we did not start Korea. We also didn't start the Gulf war either. Russia is about to roll over Ukraine, Poland and God knows who else. Think you can handle that without we American warmongerers? Or, are you just a fucking hypocrite who wants to tell us which wars to fight?

your tunnel vision of history is exactly what makes you not worth dying for. Fight your own damn wars.

Tut tut Matalese. Language? (Someone got there before me).

For a country that doesn’t start wars, you certainly get involved in them a lot? “Russia is about to roll over Ukraine, Poland and God knows who else”. Is that what they’re telling you? Yee haw, get ready for another war then?

America is in just about any country where there’s money to be made. What’s the saying, ‘if Iraq grew carrots it wouldn’t have been invaded’? Follow the smell of oil and profits and that will lead you to the next American involvement. It isn’t the rest of the world patrolling the world and issuing dictates, it’s America and that’s not even history, its current happenings. Guaranteed the next conflict will involve oil, or a countrywho refuses to use petro dollars.

"There is no person on this earth worth the life of an American soldier." You keep saying that, then don't keep invading other countries and your loss of life won't happen? No one is invading America, all the lost life is coming from elsewhere.

[Matty]

Tut tut Matalese. Language? (Someone got there before me).

For a country that doesn’t start wars, you certainly get involved in them a lot? “Russia is about to roll over Ukraine, Poland and God knows who else”. Is that what they’re telling you? Yee haw, get ready for another war then?

America is in just about any country where there’s money to be made. What’s the saying, ‘if Iraq grew carrots it wouldn’t have been invaded’? Follow the smell of oil and profits and that will lead you to the next American involvement. It isn’t the rest of the world patrolling the world and issuing dictates, it’s America and that’s not even history, its current happenings. Guaranteed the next conflict will involve oil, or a countrywho refuses to use petro dollars.

"There is no person on this earth worth the life of an American soldier." You keep saying that, then don't keep invading other countries and your loss of life won't happen? No one is invading America, all the lost life is coming from elsewhere.
So you agree with me. America needs to let the world conduct their own damn wars because there isn't a person on earth worth the life of an American soldier. Especially the likes of you.

[Matty]

Ask Japan. Ha ha!

[Spectre]

One false premise that a lot of people make musing about America is to assume that this is still a pre-1990 world and the country is still a center-right one politically: it is NO longer the case, whatever the odd poll might say.

Once the WWII generation began to drop below a certain level and the Boomers and their successors started to move into positions of power and influence, two generations of relentless progressive education and progressive media and entertainment exposure began to show its first fruits. No previous, more rational and morally centered generation would EVER have given the current clown in the Oval Office two terms.

It is now a different people and a different population.

[Refugee]

So you agree with me. America needs to let the world conduct their own damn wars because there isn't a person on earth worth the life of an American soldier. Especially the likes of you.

Yes, I agree, but not because an American soldiers life is worth more than that of any other.

We can go round in circles forever on this one, but my point is this. It will never be Obama or Cheyne who fumble in around in an ammunition pouch and if their children ever get near a war, they’ll be kept very safely out of harm’s way.

Wars are just as devastating to an American soldier as they are to a peasant eating a bowl of rice and their mothers cry the same amount of tears while business counts the profits. It’s always been so but there’s no reason why it should continue. Americans lives are not dollar bills, worth more than other countries currency, they are lives lost, not something counted as more or less worthy. When you start to believe you’re worth more than other people or races, that’s what will allow you to press the button because you’ll simply be destroying those who you see as inferior. This superior arrogance may eventually destroy you if other nuclear countries take the same attitude.

[Matty]

One false premise that a lot of people make musing about America is to assume that this is still a pre-1990 world and the country is still a center-right one politically: it is NO longer the case, whatever the odd poll might say.

Once the WWII generation began to drop below a certain level and the Boomers and their successors started to move into positions of power and influence, two generations of relentless progressive education and progressive media and entertainment exposure began to show its first fruits. No previous, more rational and morally centered generation would EVER have given the current clown in the Oval Office two terms.

It is now a different people and a different population.


I am the older generation and I am totally anti war. Let the rest of the world's hypocrites fight their own damn wars.

[Matty]

Yes, I agree, but not because an American soldiers life is worth more than that of any other.

We can go round in circles forever on this one, but my point is this. It will never be Obama or Cheyne who fumble in around in an ammunition pouch and if their children ever get near a war, they’ll be kept very safely out of harm’s way.

Wars are just as devastating to an American soldier as they are to a peasant eating a bowl of rice and their mothers cry the same amount of tears while business counts the profits. It’s always been so but there’s no reason why it should continue. Americans lives are not dollar bills, worth more than other countries currency, they are lives lost, not something counted as more or less worthy. When you start to believe you’re worth more than other people or races, that’s what will allow you to press the button because you’ll simply be destroying those who you see as inferior. This superior arrogance may eventually destroy you if other nuclear countries take the same attitude.




I didn't say they were worth more. I said yours wasn't worth theirs. Fight your own wars.

[Refugee]

One false premise that a lot of people make musing about America is to assume that this is still a pre-1990 world and the country is still a center-right one politically: it is NO longer the case, whatever the odd poll might say.

Once the WWII generation began to drop below a certain level and the Boomers and their successors started to move into positions of power and influence, two generations of relentless progressive education and progressive media and entertainment exposure began to show its first fruits. No previous, more rational and morally centered generation would EVER have given the current clown in the Oval Office two terms.

It is now a different people and a different population.

Yes, I'll agree with that. The attitudes of policing and superiority are changing, but not for the better. In times of great economic hardship countries have always tended to become nationalistic and belligerent and the current period is no different. It's either a slide into progressivism or war.

[Refugee]

I didn't say they were worth more. I said yours wasn't worth theirs. Fight your own wars.

I'm afraid you did. Look back over your posts and you'll see yourself repeating it again and again.

[Spectre]

I am the older generation and I am totally anti war. Let the rest of the world's hypocrites fight their own damn wars.

It may sound a little brutal, but soldiers have their job to do same as everyone else. If they wanted to do something else they would never have become soldiers. Let them do it.

Anyone who volunteers to become a soldier MUST know that killing and being killed is all part of the calculus, and it obviously must be a calculus they accept. No third party has a right to interfere with that decision. No one has the right to care more about another person's life than the person who owns that life, and they will make the decision as to whether they will risk it by their choice of joining the military or not.

[Refugee]

Ask Japan. Ha ha!

I don't know if that's in reference to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but if so it's a pretty sick thing to say.

[Matty]

They attacked us. Tell me this. Yes or no. If your country is attacked do you want to be left alone to fight your own battles without interference from America. Yes? Or No?

[Spectre]

They attacked us. Tell me this. Yes or no. If your country is attacked do you want to be left alone to fight your own battles without interference from America. Yes? Or No?

Japan attacked Hong Kong and Singapore and all other British possessions at the same time they attacked America.

let's also remember that Al Qaeda attacked both the US and England also.

Not a good idea being anti-war under circumstances like these. The other word for it would be 'surrender'.

[Matty]

Japan attacked Hong Kong and Singapore and all other British possessions at the same time they attacked America.

let's also remember that Al Qaeda attacked both the US and England also.

Not a good idea being anti-war under circumstances like these. The other word for it would be 'surrender'.
Let refugee fight. He doesn't want our interference. Anyway. My grandson the war vet of Afghanistan just called. He'll be here in two hours and he wants some beer iced down.

[Matty]

You notice Refugee can't answer the yes or no question? He just wants to bash America.

[darroll]

Your government lied to you about Iraq,The whole worlds intelligence community told us that Iraq had WMD(s). They still have pictures of Sadam with his baby. The old Soviet Union is still missing five nukes, I don't have one in my garage.

[Refugee]

You notice Refugee can't answer the yes or no question? He just wants to bash America.

Refugee is 12+ hours ahead of you and is not staying up all night. The answer to your question is, Yes. American seems to have learned its lesson and is not putting boots on the ground any more, which doesn’t mean it’s not finished stirring things up in the Crimea, (along with the European Union). It has also been warned by both Russia and China to keep its nose out of Iran or risk a nuclear war.

All superpowers have spheres of influence and trading blocks. America interfering in those is like Russia or China setting up military bases in Mexico. It’s provocation, as is drawing up red lines and daring other nuclear superpowers to cross them.

There’s no doubt America has kept Communism from expanding and still does. That’s to its credit. Regime changes and invading oil related countries for business purposes isn’t.

[Green Arrow]

It may sound a little brutal, but soldiers have their job to do same as everyone else. If they wanted to do something else they would never have become soldiers. Let them do it.

Anyone who volunteers to become a soldier MUST know that killing and being killed is all part of the calculus, and it obviously must be a calculus they accept. No third party has a right to interfere with that decision. No one has the right to care more about another person's life than the person who owns that life, and they will make the decision as to whether they will risk it by their choice of joining the military or not.

The calculus isn't that they will kill and be killed, it's that they will kill and be killed in defense of their country, which no American soldier has done since WWII.

[Spectre]

The calculus isn't that they will kill and be killed, it's that they will kill and be killed in defense of their country, which no American soldier has done since WWII.

And you might just have put your finger on the very crux of the problem here.

Moralistic Christian civilizations must have a 'cause' in order to fight. Pagan, heroic, warrior civilizations like the Archaic Greeks, The Classical Spartans, the Romans, the ancient Celts, the Vikings, the Samurai, etc, fighting was inherent in the role of soldier and warrior, it was even more than their PROFESSION, it was their ART, their LIFE, their PASSION and they took pride in being the best at it.

Our nearly post-Christian civilization has not re-paganized--that could be a very positive thing--it is in the process of becoming nothing at all. We are left with all the moralistic squeamishness of Christianity without its deep courage and sense of sacrifice. We just want to be comfortable, not bothered, left alone to enjoy ourselves. We can only be moved if a 'cause' jazzes us enough.

[Green Arrow]

And you might just have put your finger on the very crux of the problem here.

Moralistic Christian civilizations must have a 'cause' in order to fight. Pagan, heroic, warrior civilizations like the Archaic Greeks, The Classical Spartans, the Romans, the ancient Celts, the Vikings, the Samurai, etc, fighting was inherent in the role of soldier and warrior, it was even more than their PROFESSION, it was their ART, their LIFE, their PASSION and they took pride in being the best at it.

Our nearly post-Christian civilization has not re-paganized--that could be a very positive thing--it is in the process of becoming nothing at all. We are left with all the moralistic squeamishness of Christianity without its deep courage and sense of sacrifice. We just want to be comfortable, not bothered, left alone to enjoy ourselves. We can only be moved if a 'cause' jazzes us enough.

Uh-huh. So, dying in defense of your country is "moralistic" and "comfortable" and isn't a brave sacrifice. Got it.