Can people unite despite sensationalist fundamental garbage?

[spunkloaf]

I think it's a really good question to ask ourselves.

Everybody can agree that we want our country to be the strongest in the world. Everybody can agree that we want all Americans to be happy, free, prosperous and productive.

Beyond that, our prospects of an ideal nation begin to splinter off. The more detailed our individual hopes get, the more contrasted and controversial they become.

I've ranted before about how we are all dumbed down by sensationalist garbage in the media. We revel in the fake politically-charged propaganda that's fed to us. The phenomenon of our political climate is likened to the loyalty of fans of All-Star Wrestling. Fake, nonetheless entertaining. It is a phenomenon so powerful that even though I can recognize it, I myself am still subject to the fierce political prejudice that it demands from me.

For just a moment, I want everybody to imagine a country without All-Star politics. Imagine that your fellow citizens on the opposite side of the political spectrum are not the evil monsters you've been told to believe they are, and are not the birdbrained idiots you jokingly call them. Imagine that all citizens are willing to find consensus instead of fight over fundamentalist hogwash.

What kinds of principles would you be willing to forfeit to find consensus and unity?

[Captain Obvious]

I really can't imagine that.

[spunkloaf]

I would give up activism for gay marriage rights, activism for marijuana legalization, and would back down some on my principles of providing federal government assistance to the needy.

[spunkloaf]

I really can't imagine that.

hard, isn't it?

[Conley]

What kinds of principles would you be willing to forfeit to find consensus and unity?

Forfeit my principles? Not sure I could do that...think logic and reason may help to create consensus and unity.

[Conley]

Oh, so what causes would we give up, is that what you're driving at?

[Captain Obvious]

hard, isn't it?

Yeah. I'm not trying to be thread obstructive, I just don't see it happening.

[Captain Obvious]

I would give up activism for gay marriage rights, activism for marijuana legalization, and would back down some on my principles of providing federal government assistance to the needy.

How would that create unity?

[wingrider]

you know this would be a lot easier if I was a dictator

[Captain Obvious]

you know this would be a lot easier if I was a dictator

That's what you get when you cross a penis and a potato, you know that, right?

[Peter1469]

you know this would be a lot easier if I was a dictator

Isn't that what Hitler and Lenin said?

[wingrider]

Isn't that what Hitler and Lenin said? nope... GW Bush LOL




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvUEsm0wNIA



but he was Joking.. ( I think)

[spunkloaf]

How would that create unity?

I dunno, really. :rollseyes:

I started this thread as an experiment to see if anybody's willing to negotiate principles to find unity.

[Peter1469]

I dunno, really. :rollseyes:

I started this thread as an experiment to see if anybody's willing to negotiate principles to find unity.

At the local level this happens all the time.

[dadakarma]

I dunno, really. :rollseyes:

I started this thread as an experiment to see if anybody's willing to negotiate principles to find unity.

Absolutely not.

[Alias]

Absolutely not.

A bunch of Demorats did to get Obamacare passed, which led to their defeat in the election of 2010.

[MMC]

Lets not forget they all voted for the War in Iraq......Unified. Well Except Obama and a couple others. Do you think he was thinking about that song, it had to be You?

[Alias]

The left doesn't respect the constitutional process. They can preach all day they do, but like their Dear Leader, they say thing and do another. Fast talking salesmen. Hurry, hurry, hurry and pass Obamacare. There's a crisis. There's always a crisis until they get what they want.

[MMC]

The left doesn't respect the constitutional process. They can preach all day they do, but like their Dear Leader, they say thing and do another. Fast talking salesmen. Hurry, hurry, hurry and pass Obamacare. There's a crisis. There's always a crisis until they get what they want.


I thought they are always saying there is a War. A War on Women, War on Children, War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on the Middle Class, the War against Hunger, The war on Education, the War on Obesity, and of course the War on White Hispancis .....I mean for a Peace President.....there is sure a lot War talk going on. Not to mention I think they are all Unified on that. :grin:

[Alias]

Obama has the American people involved in so many wars, it seems to me they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to the wrong guy.

[spunkloaf]

The left doesn't respect the constitutional process.

You paint a very broad stroke with this statement. While I appreciate your effort to participate in political discussion, it's an inconsiderate remark.


They can preach all day they do, but like their Dear Leader, they say thing and do another. Fast talking salesmen. Hurry, hurry, hurry and pass Obamacare. There's a crisis. There's always a crisis until they get what they want.

That's politics. Urgency is the biggest motivator to get things done. Obama promised a health care reform, and he did what he had to in order to make it happen. Actually, it was a staple in every major 2008 candidate's campaign.

[spunkloaf]

Obama has the American people involved in so many wars, it seems to me they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to the wrong guy.

Somebody's gotta finish the job and clean up the mess.

[wingrider]

Somebody's gotta finish the job and clean up the mess.
except he only has 8 months to do it in, he should have started 3 years ago and ended the wars,

[spunkloaf]

except he only has 8 months to do it in, he should have started 3 years ago and ended the wars,

Considering he has way more popular momentum than the leading contender, I'm sure he has 4 years and 8 months. Otherwise I'd agree.

[wingrider]

Considering he has way more popular momentum than the leading contender, I'm sure he has 4 years and 8 months. Otherwise I'd agree.
probably he will get 4 more years but if he doesn't have congress and the senate he is toast.

[Mister D]

probably he will get 4 more years but if he doesn't have congress and the senate he is toast.

True. His efforts were squandered on health care reform when they could have been most successful.

[spunkloaf]

Probably. Let's face it, though. Many republican voters are motivated not by factual inspiration, but out of dumb fear-mongered naivety.

[Mister D]

Probably. Let's face it, though. Many republican voters are motivated not by factual inspiration, but out of dumb fear-mongered naivety.

Some I'm sure. That's also true of Democrats.

[MMC]

Somebody's gotta finish the job and clean up the mess.

Maybe the American People should call in Orkin.....afterwards we can use bounty. It's the Quicker Picker Upper. :wink: :laugh:

[spunkloaf]

Some I'm sure. That's also true of Democrats.

Agreed.

I wish there was a way to enlighten people with more truth.

[wingrider]

or by the fact that they don't want obama and will pick and vote for satan before they would vote him in again... between bush and Obama American freedoms and liberties have been nearly stomped to death,, 12 years of passing laws to " make us safer " have nearly in my opinion destroyed America

[spunkloaf]

Maybe the American People should call in Orkin.....afterwards we can use bounty. It's the Quicker Picker Upper. :wink: :laugh:

:poopfan:

[spunkloaf]

or by the fact that they don't want obama and will pick and vote for satan before they would vote him in again...

They probably would vote for Satan. All Satan has to do is get the approval of Fox News. They probably wouldn't even question his birth certificate or anything.


between bush and Obama American freedoms and liberties have been nearly stomped to death,, 12 years of passing laws to " make us safer " have nearly in my opinion destroyed America

I agree, however I'd say that Obama has merely failed to roll back the damage cause by Bush, and has in fact extended some.

[Mister D]

Agreed.

I wish there was a way to enlighten people with more truth.

It's more about people making a personal decision to be receptive to the truth. Many people (including some members of this forum) simply aren't. Now whether that's out of pride, ideological stubbornness, or something else I don't know.

[Mister D]

Not Fox again...:rollseyes:

[wingrider]

They probably would vote for Satan. All Satan has to do is get the approval of Fox News. They probably wouldn't even question his birth certificate or anything.


I agree, however I'd say that Obama has merely failed to roll back the damage cause by Bush, and has in fact extended some.

on the first part... that was tongue in cheek on my point of view.

on the second part. it was his expansion on bush policies, the NDAA and his healthcare bill that over 60 percent of the nation wanted no part of, the backroom deals to get it passed, bailouts of private companies, selling 40 million insurance policies by force of law, not closing gitmo, and getting embroiled in more useless wars.. Yeah I got a lot of reasons not to vote for him.

[Captain Obvious]

D - is that Nicholas Cage in your avatar?

[spunkloaf]

Not Fox again...:rollseyes:

What? It's the biggest propaganda machine in the history of mankind. I think it deserves some recognition.

[wingrider]

looks more like Doc Holiday

[Mister D]

D - is that Nicholas Cage in your avatar?

:grin:

[wingrider]

What? It's the biggest propaganda machine in the history of mankind. I think it deserves some recognition. I am sure they appreciate the publicity.. LOL

[Mister D]

What? It's the biggest propaganda machine in the history of mankind. I think it deserves some recognition.

You really need to get over this obsession with Fox. I know many liberals were dumbfounded and outraged by the idea that the news could ever be slanted to the right but conservatives have been dealing with a center left bias forever. Seriously, deal with it.

[wingrider]

I mean really .. conservatives have FOX

liberals have the rest ... why all the complaining? what do they want a monopoly on the media?

[MMC]

I mean really .. conservatives have FOX

liberals have the rest ... why all the complaining? what do they want a monopoly on the media?

Well you know how they are.....nothing exceeds like excess! :wink:

[Captain Obvious]

:grin:

Seriously, who is it?

You probably said it somewhere, I just got here tho and the curiosity is getting to me.

[spunkloaf]

on the first part... that was tongue in cheek on my point of view.

on the second part. it was his expansion on bush policies, the NDAA and his healthcare bill that over 60 percent of the nation wanted no part of, the backroom deals to get it passed, bailouts of private companies, selling 40 million insurance policies by force of law, not closing gitmo, and getting embroiled in more useless wars.. Yeah I got a lot of reasons not to vote for him.

Yep. I'm not disagreeing with you. He is still an attractive public figure though, and he sets a good example of character. He also carries a message of peace and progress, although he doesn't practice the peace part well as President.

[Captain Obvious]

I watch Fox with a jaundiced eye. They 'elaborate' a lot, far too often. I never feel like I'm getting the fundamental truth of the issue for the most part. I'm skeptical by nature though.

I used to frequent Foxnews on the net, daily. Stopped a week or two ago, they started this ad campaign that my adblock doesn't pick up. That's a deal killer for me, nothing I hate more than, when I just start reading something, some asshole ad covers the page. When I click a link that someone provides and that happens, I immediately shut it off. Fuck that, it's a credibility killer for me.

[wingrider]

Yep. I'm not disagreeing with you. He is still an attractive public figure though, and he sets a good example of character. He also carries a message of peace and progress, although he doesn't practice the peace part well as President.
jeez spunk this president has been at war or fomenting war since day one,,every time he opens his mouth its the blame game or someone else's fault . he is like a five year old saying " My toy" every time someone touches a toy

[spunkloaf]

You really need to get over this obsession with Fox. I know many liberals were dumbfounded and outraged by the idea that the news could ever be slanted to the right but conservatives have been dealing with a center left bias forever. Seriously, deal with it.

You're seeing it in a very obscure way, like others are.

The news is NOT SUPPOSED to be biased. No big news company ever really had a left bias. It may appear that way to you because free and honest media coverage is more of a liberal principle than a conservative one. Since many news companies didn't denounce Muslims or promote specific right-wing ideals, they were branded left wing media companies. It's the same old "you're with us, or you're with them" bullshit.

So you tell me to "get over it" but you still don't even understand what "it" is I'm talking about. It's clearly a matter of pride with you, like so many others. With me, it's plain honesty.

[spunkloaf]

I watch Fox with a jaundiced eye. They 'elaborate' a lot, far too often. I never feel like I'm getting the fundamental truth of the issue for the most part. I'm skeptical by nature though.

I used to frequent Foxnews on the net, daily. Stopped a week or two ago, they started this ad campaign that my adblock doesn't pick up. That's a deal killer for me, nothing I hate more than, when I just start reading something, some asshole ad covers the page. When I click a link that someone provides and that happens, I immediately shut it off. Fuck that, it's a credibility killer for me.

I've probably watched more Fox News than MSNBC. And I haven't watched much FOX News a-tall, a-tall.

I get my news from Yahoo! I figure such a place has to be as centered an unbiased as possible in order to appease the most visitors.

[spunkloaf]

jeez spunk this president has been at war or fomenting war since day one,,every time he opens his mouth its the blame game or someone else's fault . he is like a five year old saying " My toy" every time someone touches a toy

He says it's somebody else's fault all the time? K, well...how many of our national or foreign problems were instigated by Obama?

[Captain Obvious]

I've probably watched more Fox News than MSNBC. And I haven't watched much FOX News a-tall, a-tall.

I get my news from Yahoo! I figure such a place has to be as centered an unbiased as possible in order to appease the most visitors.

I started hitting reuters.

And NPR - mostly for cultural shit.

[wingrider]

He says it's somebody else's fault all the time? K, well...how many of our national or foreign problems were instigated by Obama?
more importantly how many were solved and not added to by Obama? after all he is the Commander in Chief.. it is his resposiblity to solve problems not create more of them

[Conley]

Putin just saw D switched up avatars...

http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/International/ap_Russia_Election_vladimir_putin_jt_120304_wblog. jpg

[Mister D]

I still have the pic!

[Mister D]

You're seeing it in a very obscure way, like others are.

The news is NOT SUPPOSED to be biased. No big news company ever really had a left bias. It may appear that way to you because free and honest media coverage is more of a liberal principle than a conservative one. Since many news companies didn't denounce Muslims or promote specific right-wing ideals, they were branded left wing media companies. It's the same old "you're with us, or you're with them" bullshit.

So you tell me to "get over it" but you still don't even understand what "it" is I'm talking about. It's clearly a matter of pride with you, like so many others. With me, it's plain honesty.

Only a naive fool would believe that all "news" isn't biased to some extent and, yes, all of network news has had a left center bias for decades. Seriously, the Fox fixation is becoming tiresome.

[Captain Obvious]

D's not kissing and telling, I see.

:kiss:

[Captain Obvious]

Maurice Barres

[Mister D]

Oh, sorry. I didn't see this. Correct, sir! Mister D is a known Francophile. :grin:

[Captain Obvious]

Oh, sorry. I didn't realize you were asking me that. Correct, sir. Mister D is a known Francophile. :grin:

Yeah, now that I blow your cover.

:wink:

[Mister D]

Yeah, now that I blow your cover.

:wink:

I've been feeling very right wing lately. :shocked:

[Peter1469]

You're seeing it in a very obscure way, like others are.

The news is NOT SUPPOSED to be biased. No big news company ever really had a left bias. It may appear that way to you because free and honest media coverage is more of a liberal principle than a conservative one. Since many news companies didn't denounce Muslims or promote specific right-wing ideals, they were branded left wing media companies. It's the same old "you're with us, or you're with them" bullshit.

So you tell me to "get over it" but you still don't even understand what "it" is I'm talking about. It's clearly a matter of pride with you, like so many others. With me, it's plain honesty.

The MSM is so left biased that it should be stripped of its Constitutional protections. It has failed the US.

[Mainecoons]

Did this fool really post that? I suppose that's why three quarters of the public when repeatedly polled expresses the view that the media is biased leftward.

Amazing. Is this what happens when you get all your "information" from the same biased sources and even worse sources like Democrat Underground?

You can't make this stuff up. It makes Alice In Wonderland look like a documentary.