PDA

View Full Version : Rabbi says this is why Cantor lost



Bob
06-14-2014, 11:41 PM
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/06/cantor_fell_because_he_wouldnt_fight_the_good_figh t.html






Cantor Fell Because He Wouldn't Fight the Good FightBy Rabbi Aryeh Spero (http://www.americanthinker.com/rabbi_aryeh_spero)
June 12, 2014
Tuesday night, David Brat, an economics professor at Randolph-Macon College, right outside Richmond, accomplished something stunning: defeating the House Majority Leader, Eric Cantor, something never done before in American history.
Some are trying to pigeonhole Mr. Brat as a Tea Party candidate, but the truth is that, while he appeals to the Tea Party constituency, he is what a bread-and-butter Republican is supposed to be: a believer in free markets, limited government, strong defense, and a morality based in our Judeo-Christian ethos.
I first met Mr. Brat years back when he invited me to speak at Randolph-Macon College on the topic of “The Morality of Capitalism” based on an article I had published in the Wall Street Journal. He is well grounded in the fundamentals of American political philosophy.
The issue of immigration played heavily in the last two weeks of the campaign: specifically, the unacceptable daily phenomenon of illegals walking across the border and almost immediately becoming wards of the state by taxing hardworking American citizens and too-quickly finding loopholes for them to vote and determine America’s destiny. Americans are afraid they are losing their country and are being made powerless to stop it.
Mr. Cantor, as House Majority Leader together with Speaker Boehner, did not seem to share the alarm that many of us do. In effect, an invasion is happening to America and the weapons are not bullets but the ballot box: Democrat leaders are orchestrating an influx of illegals to use the ballot box to install socialism and permanently maintain the power of the Democrat Party. Their eligibility to vote is often suspect, but legitimate challenges are shot down by invoking the tried-and-tested accusation of racism.
The boast by Mr. Obama that he would transform America is happening through a willful demographic invasion designed to nullify the votes of hardworking, patriotic Americans in their own land. People want to know: Who is orchestrating and masterminding the illegal influx of tens of thousands of children unaccompanied by parents across the border into America?
Mr. Cantor lost not because people decided to “throw the bums out.” He lost because he, in this particular primary race, became the national symbol of a Republican Party unwilling to represent our people in our need to stop a corrupt and dictatorial President and his party.
Never in our lifetime have we witnessed such atrocious violations of the Constitution and assaults on freedom, decency, and the sacred code of American fair play than in the last couple of years wherein the IRS audited the president’s enemies, our people were killed in Benghazi and the circumstances covered up, the failure at the VA, the green light for Iran to go ahead with its bomb-making, and the willful release of five Taliban terrorists who certainly threaten our safety. During all this, while conservative Americans looked for leaders to vigorously and passionately stand against such tyrannies, the two men most entrusted to do so, Mr. Boehner and Mr. Cantor, did not lead, did not fight, and let us down. Not for weeks, not for months, but for years.
Their inaction made us feel powerless. Their dispassion made us wonder if they were on our team. The country is burning and they seem oblivious. Their career goals do not seem to coincide with who we are, what we cherish, and our principled beliefs in Americanism.
Tuesday night, Republicans decided that Mr. Cantor was no longer the man who would protect us and our liberties from Obamaism. He, Mr. Boehner, and other men elected to be leaders appear afraid or unwilling to provide a strong opposition to Obama's daily march toward tyranny. The sense is "we the people" can't count on them to fight the Good Fight.

Green Arrow
06-15-2014, 12:30 AM
Story: Your theory on why Cantor lost is wrong (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/eric-cantor-loss-your-theory-is-probably-wrong-107759.html)


The Richmond Times-Dispatch called it a "political earthquake." It was the "upset of the century," added Fredericksburg's Free Lance-Star. A powerful, veteran member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Virginia had fallen in a primary to a political upstart.

No, these are not the words used to describe House Majority Leader Eric Cantor's primary loss Tuesday night to Dave Brat, an obscure economics professor at Randolph-Macon College. They are from 48 years ago, when Rep. Howard Smith, the chairman of the House's mighty Rules Committee, fell in the Democratic primary to George Rawlings, a member of the Virginia House of Delegates.


There is a fairly easy explanation for what happened in 1966: The Voting Rights Act of 1965 had vastly expanded black suffrage, and a new influx of African-American voters shook up the Democratic Party a year later, contributing not only to the defeat of Smith but also Sen. Willis Robertson, a Democrat and the father of televangelist Pat Robertson, in the Senate primary. The southern Democratic parties had been struggling to reconcile their national and local identities for decades, and, at least in Virginia, this change in the electorate helped destroy the old order, leading to a more traditional Democratic-versus-Republican system.


Perhaps five decades from now, Cantor's loss will be easier to explain within the context of larger events. Maybe it is indeed a harbinger of a coming "populist revolution" or a sign that the Republican Civil War is once again at full tilt. But as of right now, the best explanation seems to be a combination of factors that have more to do with Cantor and his position than with larger forces in American life.


Although a primary loss by the House majority leader is a shock--and also unprecedented in American history since the creation of the position in 1899--it does not come as part of a clear and larger anti-incumbent wave. So far this year, 26 states have held their primaries to determine the nominees for 257 House seats (including the advancing candidates in California's top-two system)--59 percent of the national total. Of the 229 incumbents running again, only two have lost: Cantor and Rep. Ralph Hall, a 91-year-old Republican who would have been renominated if Texas did not have a runoff system requiring winners to get over 50 percent (just 11 states have some form of runoff system, and nearly all of them are in the South).

del
06-15-2014, 12:32 AM
he lost because he forgot "all politics is local"

Bob
06-15-2014, 12:44 AM
Story: Your theory on why Cantor lost is wrong (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/eric-cantor-loss-your-theory-is-probably-wrong-107759.html)

My theory?

I am not the author of the OP article.

Say Green Arrow, since this is typical for you, when it comes to my posts,

HAVE YOU EVER LOST AN ARGUMENT

ARE YOU EVER WRONG?

Green Arrow
06-15-2014, 01:34 AM
My theory?

I am not the author of the OP article.

And I am not the author of the article I responded with.


Say @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868), since this is typical for you, when it comes to my posts,

HAVE YOU EVER LOST AN ARGUMENT

ARE YOU EVER WRONG?

Lots of times. Have you ever lost an argument? Are you ever wrong?

Refugee
06-15-2014, 01:52 AM
It suits both sides, The Democrats get votes and the Republicans cheap labour. Politicians and big business win and its why in the end both parties will begin to merge in policies. It’s Marxism Progressivism by the back door, but this time it isn’t a class struggle, with business and workers fighting each other, this time it’s a compromise between the elite on either spectrum to control the masses. It’s why Obama is taxing the middle and lower classes, but not the rich. It’s why the growing poverty, but the rich are getting richer. It’s why still the freedom but a fast growing police State. It’s why the separation into groups and the dumbing down. Americans are slowly waking up to what they elected and Cantor was a backlash against the changing culture and cost through mass immigration.

In a back room somewhere, what happened will be discussed and new ways found to continue it and new ways proposed to mislead you. You might think Obama is stupid, but it takes a lot of people and a lot of combined intelligence to drag you down to where you are now and for people to just begin to start waking up.

The blacks of the 60’s simply wanted to join in a society from which they were excluded. There’s not even an attempt to include them anymore, they’re now largely part of the dumbed down section. Cantor may very well be useless and arrogant, but I somehow hope it was more than that which got the first house leader removed in over a hundred years.

Libhater
06-15-2014, 05:49 AM
It suits both sides, The Democrats get votes and the Republicans cheap labour.

You know I love you man but for the life of me I can't figure out what exactly you are referring to here. It sounds like you're talking about illegal immigration. Is that correct? You seem to be falling into the same trap that many on this forum have succumbed to and that is blaming both the dems and the Republicans for our current woes. I suggest you re-read the article by the Rabbi to get a clearer picture of where the Republicans stand and what policies they favor going forward. To link the Conservative and or Tea Party message of everything from the underlined in the OP with anything these progressives are doing to our nation does a disservice to Conservatism and to our nation as a whole. Sure there are some RINOs and Obama appeasers in the Republican party, but with the current showing of the Tea Party candidates and the general mood of the nation to cleanse government from this progressive stranglehold we now see in D.C., you should be as optimistic as I am that good old Conservative will win the day in the end.

Peter1469
06-15-2014, 06:05 AM
Both parties are to blame for our current woes. It isn't even accurate to call them different parties. They are two sides of the same coin. They have their pet issues that they shout loudly about, while in private work together to screw us. And I am talking about the establishment of the dems and GOP. Not the outliers.


You know I love you man but for the life of me I can't figure out what exactly you are referring to here. It sounds like you're talking about illegal immigration. Is that correct? You seem to be falling into the same trap that many on this forum have succumbed to and that is blaming both the dems and the Republicans for our current woes. I suggest you re-read the article by the Rabbi to get a clearer picture of where the Republicans stand and what policies they favor going forward. To link the Conservative and or Tea Party message of everything from the underlined in the OP with anything these progressives are doing to our nation does a disservice to Conservatism and to our nation as a whole. Sure there are some RINOs and Obama appeasers in the Republican party, but with the current showing of the Tea Party candidates and the general mood of the nation to cleanse government from this progressive stranglehold we now see in D.C., you should be as optimistic as I am that good old Conservative will win the day in the end.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

Peter1469
06-15-2014, 06:09 AM
I think that both Bob's article and Green Arrows article can be correct. How? They contradict each other....

We have evidence from voters that many did vote for Brat because Cantor was seen as a RHINO.

We also see that other voters were just voting against the incumbent and I hope that trend continues nation-wide.

Refugee
06-15-2014, 06:13 AM
You know I love you man but for the life of me I can't figure out what exactly you are referring to here. It sounds like you're talking about illegal immigration. Is that correct? You seem to be falling into the same trap that many on this forum have succumbed to and that is blaming both the dems and the Republicans for our current woes. I suggest you re-read the article by the Rabbi to get a clearer picture of where the Republicans stand and what policies they favor going forward. To link the Conservative and or Tea Party message of everything from the underlined in the OP with anything these progressives are doing to our nation does a disservice to Conservatism and to our nation as a whole. Sure there are some RINOs and Obama appeasers in the Republican party, but with the current showing of the Tea Party candidates and the general mood of the nation to cleanse government from this progressive stranglehold we now see in D.C., you should be as optimistic as I am that good old Conservative will win the day in the end.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

What I was saying is that I think the days of Democrat v Republican are coming to an end, just as they are in the UK. There’s lots of talk, but when each get in power, nothing changes and that's because progressivism comes from both left and right.There are still differences as you say in conservatives and the Tea Party, just as there will be with mainstream democrats and the Congressional progressive caucus, but it’s the Republican and Democrat mainstream who get elected, not the offshoots. People voted Democrat and got a Marxist, what will they get if they vote Republican? I do hope that a conservative wins next time, but it also seems as if America is hell bent on welcoming progressivism. I hope I’m wrong.

Libhater
06-15-2014, 06:35 AM
What I was saying is that I think the days of Democrat v Republican are coming to an end, just as they are in the UK. There’s lots of talk, but when each get in power, nothing changes and that's because progressivism comes from both left and right.There are still differences as you say in conservatives and the Tea Party, just as there will be with mainstream democrats and the Congressional progressive caucus, but it’s the Republican and Democrat mainstream who get elected, not the offshoots. People voted Democrat and got a Marxist, what will they get if they vote Republican? I do hope that a conservative wins next time, but it also seems as if America is hell bent on welcoming progressivism. I hope I’m wrong.

I agree with you that if a McCain or a Romney (Rino's) were to represent the Republicans come 2016 then the establishment Republicans in congress will have been politicking as lib lites and the path of progressivism will continue unabated. But with the growing list of great looking true Conservatives nationwide led by everyone's favorite Ted Cruz, and with the impending control of both Houses by Republicans one has to expect and or have faith that Conservatism will win in the end by ousting progressivism from the face f the earth. The mindset of others here that think there is no difference between the two parties or between the two ideologies is not only mindboggling but it is dangerous to the lifeblood of this nation. Its is as if people here have given up all hope of stopping this path of progressive ruination and have decided to drop all their weapons and stop the fight to take America back.

Green Arrow
06-15-2014, 06:45 AM
I think that both Bob's article and Green Arrows article can be correct. How? They contradict each other....

We have evidence from voters that many did vote for Brat because Cantor was seen as a RHINO.

We also see that other voters were just voting against the incumbent and I hope that trend continues nation-wide.

Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until next election year for that. As my article showed, incumbents very rarely lose their seats.

Peter1469
06-15-2014, 07:15 AM
Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until next election year for that. As my article showed, incumbents very rarely lose their seats.

True

midcan5
06-15-2014, 07:17 AM
"As Jews, we are keenly aware of the need to immigrate. To those fleeing reactionary regimes in Central Europe or the pogroms of the czars, America’s open doors offered shelter and opportunity. And when America kept its doors tightly shut as the Nazi menace grew ever more deadly, we suffered the agony of those who were left to die." http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1898474/jewish/A-Torah-Perspective-on-National-Borders-and-Illegal-Immigration.htm


I am fascinated today by the religious who are so irreligious. Something has changed in the world when even Rabbis argue against something that would seem necessary, charitable and holy. This is true of Christianity as well, it today worships at the doorstep of of the Almighty Dollar. Almighty is now worldly. You start to wonder if ideology and partisanship, the foe in other words, controls the behaviors of people rather than thought and empathy? Humans have not progressed far as the turmoil in the world displays.


"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me..." Matthew 25:35

Peter1469
06-15-2014, 07:39 AM
What does charity have to do with government dictates?

hint, this is where libs and conservatives split.


"As Jews, we are keenly aware of the need to immigrate. To those fleeing reactionary regimes in Central Europe or the pogroms of the czars, America’s open doors offered shelter and opportunity. And when America kept its doors tightly shut as the Nazi menace grew ever more deadly, we suffered the agony of those who were left to die." http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1898474/jewish/A-Torah-Perspective-on-National-Borders-and-Illegal-Immigration.htm


I am fascinated today by the religious who are so irreligious. Something has changed in the world when even Rabbis argue against something that would seem necessary, charitable and holy. This is true of Christianity as well, it today worships at the doorstep of of the Almighty Dollar. Almighty is now worldly. You start to wonder if ideology and partisanship, the foe in other words, controls the behaviors of people rather than thought and empathy? Humans have not progressed far as the turmoil in the world displays.


"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me..." Matthew 25:35

Refugee
06-15-2014, 07:41 AM
I agree with you that if a McCain or a Romney (Rino's) were to represent the Republicans come 2016 then the establishment Republicans in congress will have been politicking as lib lites and the path of progressivism will continue unabated. But with the growing list of great looking true Conservatives nationwide led by everyone's favorite Ted Cruz, and with the impending control of both Houses by Republicans one has to expect and or have faith that Conservatism will win in the end by ousting progressivism from the face f the earth. The mindset of others here that think there is no difference between the two parties or between the two ideologies is not only mindboggling but it is dangerous to the lifeblood of this nation. Its is as if people here have given up all hope of stopping this path of progressive ruination and have decided to drop all their weapons and stop the fight to take America back.

That’s what I meant, I’m sure there are some good conservatives out there, but the Republicans will want a leading household name as a figure head, not John Doe, who’s very nice and has a lot of new ideas but no one has ever heard of. Even leaders are now beginning to resemble a dynasty, the Bush’s and the Clinton’s. Obama isn’t really a President, he’s a progressive spokesman put there by the Marxists. He has all the right credentials; he’s black, he’s right on, he’s photogenic and he represents the wife and 2.2 kids of middle class equality obsessed America that everyone is searching for but can’t get. He’s an advert.

As Pelosi said about healthcare, you have to pass it to see what’s in it and when I see another Reagan I’ll know they’re serious.

Libhater
06-15-2014, 07:42 AM
"As Jews, we are keenly aware of the need to immigrate. To those fleeing reactionary regimes in Central Europe or the pogroms of the czars, America’s open doors offered shelter and opportunity. And when America kept its doors tightly shut as the Nazi menace grew ever more deadly, we suffered the agony of those who were left to die." http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1898474/jewish/A-Torah-Perspective-on-National-Borders-and-Illegal-Immigration.htm


I am fascinated today by the religious who are so irreligious. Something has changed in the world when even Rabbis argue against something that would seem necessary, charitable and holy. This is true of Christianity as well, it today worships at the doorstep of of the Almighty Dollar. Almighty is now worldly. You start to wonder if ideology and partisanship, the foe in other words, controls the behaviors of people rather than thought and empathy? Humans have not progressed far as the turmoil in the world displays.


"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me..." Matthew 25:35

If you were to read the truths behind both of my signature statements, I think you would see how they both dispel any and or all of your nonsense.

Peter1469
06-15-2014, 07:48 AM
Is anyone going to take the time to read your sig line, or even posts when they see your silly avatar?

I can't take any member seriously when I see an avatar that makes me think "this dude is messed up." You would be better served to have no avatar if you can't come up with something decent.

Mainecoons
06-15-2014, 07:59 AM
Worse, Lib, your avatar is exactly the opposite of the real situation in America.

Mister D
06-15-2014, 08:08 AM
What does charity have to do with government dictates?

hint, this is where libs and conservatives split.

I have to wonder if these people ever stop to laugh at themselves. On the one hand, they tell us religion has no place in public life. For example, we all know Midcan would near shit himself if the context was abortion and someone had made a similar comment. On the other hand, you aren't being religious enough when you don't support the policies they for whatever reason like.

Secondly, I'm not sure what's more ridiculous: Hater's avatar or the links to his own posts in Midcan's sig line.

Refugee
06-15-2014, 08:24 AM
Is anyone going to take the time to read your sig line, or even posts when they see your silly avatar?

I can't take any member seriously when I see an avatar that makes me think "this dude is messed up." You would be better served to have no avatar if you can't come up with something decent.

That reminds me, its about time I changed mine. Which would you go for? Both quality superior products and 'Made in England'. None of your foreign imported Wallmart rubbish here, this is top quality stuff. Her Maj' or me? :laugh:

7940 7941

Libhater
06-15-2014, 08:28 AM
Is anyone going to take the time to read your sig line, or even posts when they see your silly avatar?

I can't take any member seriously when I see an avatar that makes me think "this dude is messed up." You would be better served to have no avatar if you can't come up with something decent.

If you and the coons can't do some serious thinking on your own without getting sidetracked by a very appropriate avatar, then that is your problem, not mine. The people who are 'messed up' in America and I think you and the coons can both agree with me on this...are the progressives led by Obama. I've had a couple of other avatars waiting in the shadows to put up here, but with your touchy-feely attitude about my current one, I'm beginning to think that these other ones would be even more inappropriate for your taste(s). I don't know if you and coons can see that bashing both the Republicans and the dems does nothing to help the cause of Conservatism or the cause of getting America back to living by the Constitution and living by true Conservative values. You two might as well declare yourself as independents, moderates, centrists, fence sitters, middle of the roaders or political pacifists for all the good your doing to put a stop to progressivism. Time to take a stand, men, and stop diddy dallying around the edges.

Refugee
06-15-2014, 08:42 AM
The only thing they can do is vote, but I have a sinking feeling that it's all been decided already Lib. It certainly has in Europe, you can vote for who you like but the European Union has the final say.

sachem
06-15-2014, 02:27 PM
he lost because he forgot "all politics is local"A favorite saying used by Tip O'Neill.

Mainecoons
06-15-2014, 04:29 PM
I'm sorry Lib, but supporting the Republican establishment does nothing to support the cause of conservatism. How many years of fellow traveling with the Democrats to create this monstrously expensive and incompetent government we have will it take for you to get this?

If your Avatar was accurate, it would show both of them humping the American people.

Bob
06-15-2014, 05:18 PM
I'm sorry Lib, but supporting the Republican establishment does nothing to support the cause of conservatism. How many years of fellow traveling with the Democrats to create this monstrously expensive and incompetent government we have will it take for you to get this?

If your Avatar was accurate, it would show both of them humping the American people.

Main, I realize this is your opinion.

But what facts can you produce to back up your argument?
Mainecoons

Bob
06-15-2014, 05:21 PM
If you and the coons can't do some serious thinking on your own without getting sidetracked by a very appropriate avatar, then that is your problem, not mine. The people who are 'messed up' in America and I think you and the coons can both agree with me on this...are the progressives led by Obama. I've had a couple of other avatars waiting in the shadows to put up here, but with your touchy-feely attitude about my current one, I'm beginning to think that these other ones would be even more inappropriate for your taste(s). I don't know if you and coons can see that bashing both the Republicans and the dems does nothing to help the cause of Conservatism or the cause of getting America back to living by the Constitution and living by true Conservative values. You two might as well declare yourself as independents, moderates, centrists, fence sitters, middle of the roaders or political pacifists for all the good your doing to put a stop to progressivism. Time to take a stand, men, and stop diddy dallying around the edges.

Lib, I am offended by Captain Obvious avatar.

That said, I too am offended by yours.

Why you ask?

Simple
Parents post
Parents have children
Children notice things

Even if one child sees your avatar and demands mom explains it, what then?

Why offend when you have very good arguments?

Mainecoons
06-15-2014, 05:27 PM
Main, I realize this is your opinion.

But what facts can you produce to back up your argument?
@Mainecoons (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=145)

You've got to be kidding. Were you on another planet when the borrow and spend Republican Congress was growing the hell out of government from 2000 on? Did you miss the fact that Bush grew government faster than Lyndon Johnson?

Really, Bob, start paying attention.

Refugee
06-15-2014, 05:31 PM
Main, I realize this is your opinion.

But what facts can you produce to back up your argument?
@Mainecoons (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=145)

Bob, if the Republicans were serious, they'd have a Tea Party Caucus and everyone of them would be in it, because the nearest you get to Conservatism in America is a grassroots Conservative movement. The Republicans look no different from the Democratic millionaires in business suits.

Mainecoons
06-15-2014, 05:51 PM
Instead, they are trying to hurt and defeat the TP.

Establishment Republicans = fellow travelers of Obama and the Democrats

Libhater
06-15-2014, 06:35 PM
Look coons, you haven't been listening to me downplay the establishment Republicans because you're so hell-bent on going along with others here who want to talk about both parties as if there isn't a bit of difference in their ideologies. All you are doing when you criticize them both-calling them the same is to give more and more fuel to the progressive in getting their destructive agenda across the plate.


I know you think there would be no difference between a Romney presidency and an Obama presidency, but you couldn't be more wrong. The liberal media did a job on Romney by making him look like a liberal lite with the emphasis on Romney care as being the big selling point to the willing and duped low information voting audience. Romney care was a successful state run plan where obamacare is a nationally run government boondoggle. Granted, Romney wasn't the best politician and he didn't run the best campaign, but the point is that he has a totally opposite ideology and agenda then does the progressive Obama.


So the more you keep knocking these so-called rino's and these so-called Republican establishment figures, the more likely we're going to end up with another progressive liberal like a Hillary as president, for you and your ilk and the low/no information voters are always going to choose the real liberal/progressive over a rino every day. You need to stick up and or promote the good team which will be any and all Republicans who decide to run. Even if we Conservatives don't get a true Conservative like a Ted Cruz to represent us in 2016 you still have to vote for the Republican no matter who it is, unless you're happy watching our country further erode under a Hillary presidency. C-mon coons, show some backbone and help the home team win one for the Gipper.

Other than miraculously rising Reagan from the grave, who might you be willing to support (if anyone) from long list of Republicans out there for the presidency in 2016? Even saying you support the Tea Party as a whole or support their agenda would be a start.

Bob
06-15-2014, 06:37 PM
Bob, if the Republicans were serious, they'd have a Tea Party Caucus and everyone of them would be in it, because the nearest you get to Conservatism in America is a grassroots Conservative movement. The Republicans look no different from the Democratic millionaires in business suits.

First Refugee
Look not at the two parties supporters. America in essence is two party. We can talk of other parties, but the end result is two parties.

So, when Democrats make a lot of promises to voters, it brings into play what I call the better deal system.
(better deal is why the many select people who promise them free food, homes, cars, etc)

Say Democrats promise social programs. Polls show the fools voting are presented as loving such programs.
So, when a republican is against it, he loses the votes.

Democrats tug republicans away from republican goals. They practice smearing republicans.

What I am saying, it is the end result that counts.

If the Rs who get called Democans or rinos, prevail, we have Rs running the show. But the moment they act as if they are genuine Rs, they lose. Cantor being a recent example. VA is a mixed bag. Cantor should have still won in a landslide. T he media polls said he would win big.

This is why I felt the D's played dirty tricks. Polls usally are much more reliable than being off by 20 percent.

I know politics in the USa is all mixed up.

You and I see Obama as he actually is, not what he claims to be. But some don't believe you when you explain his marxist views.

Mr. Nygma
06-15-2014, 06:41 PM
Brat lives in the area and actually knows people. Cantor was a Washingtonian and people in the area knew that, too, but without a challenge they went with the Republican they knew.

Bob
06-15-2014, 06:41 PM
Say @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868), since this is typical for you, when it comes to my posts,

HAVE YOU EVER LOST AN ARGUMENT

ARE YOU EVER WRONG?


And I am not the author of the article I responded with.
Lots of times. Have you ever lost an argument? Are you ever wrong?

Give me an instance where you lost and admit you are wrong! Thanks. (in your spirit, I shall allow you to reply prior to my comment about me since it was never about me.)

Candidly, since I started posting, I have never seen it happen the way you claim. I will be happy when you show i am wrong)

Mr. Nygma
06-15-2014, 06:46 PM
Bob

why is it important? I don't understand how someone can "lose" on a forum or admit that they've lost. There's nothing to win, so there's also nothing to lose.

Isn't the purpose just to come and talk to people and listen to their perspective? Minds won't be changed online. It's impersonal and 100% ego.

Mister D
06-15-2014, 06:51 PM
@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

why is it important? I don't understand how someone can "lose" on a forum or admit that they've lost. There's nothing to win, so there's also nothing to lose.

Isn't the purpose just to come and talk to people and listen to their perspective? Minds won't be changed online. It's impersonal and 100% ego.

Sure they can. It's not much different than a conversation in person except that, on the plus side, you have much more time to think about how to express yourself and, on the down side, that there is greater potential for a misunderstanding due to your inability to see body language and facial expressions.

Bob
06-15-2014, 06:52 PM
Both parties are to blame for our current woes. It isn't even accurate to call them different parties. They are two sides of the same coin. They have their pet issues that they shout loudly about, while in private work together to screw us. And I am talking about the establishment of the dems and GOP. Not the outliers.
@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), that is the fault of voters.

Voters love free stuff. Democrats please voters by telling them what they will get is free of charge to them.

They don't mind the rich getting the shaft. This is all about having to please a voter and win him to your side after he is promised the free lunch. Why would a voter pick an R over a D when the D offers free lunch.

To react, politicians on the R side try to hold the line and not back the free lunch and for that, the public and the politicians vilify them. Cruz and Rubio have been targets of the Democrats and won. Recall what happened when Obama won?

Republicans realized again, since it really is over and over, that Democrats promises to steal from a class, called Rich, amounts to a lot more votes than sticking to principle

America can talk of robber barons, but the public learned an easy way to steal from the rich is to use Government. So it bounces back and forth. One day the public loses faith that Democrats deliver and are still forgiven by the left.

It is a shitty way to govern but the public is behind this.

What sane Democrat thinks he has got from Obama what Obama promised?

Fools perhaps.

note

I am well aware that if I carefully and over an hour work this out, I can state this case a lot better. I hope I don't need to pour that much time since I believe my claims are true and pretty easy to verify.

People want the best deal.

If they think Rs give it to them, they support an R. If not, they pick the D.

Bob
06-15-2014, 06:55 PM
Sure they can. It's not much different than a conversation in person except that, on the plus side, you have much more time to think about how to express yourself and, on the down side, that there is greater potential for a misunderstanding due to your inability to see body language and facial expressions.

I totally agree with the above reply to a poster. (msg 36)

Bob
06-15-2014, 06:58 PM
@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

why is it important? I don't understand how someone can "lose" on a forum or admit that they've lost. There's nothing to win, so there's also nothing to lose.

Isn't the purpose just to come and talk to people and listen to their perspective? Minds won't be changed online. It's impersonal and 100% ego.

Here is my thing. I have found a particular poster who enjoys completely disagreeing with me, not one time, not 50 times but all the time. I am of the age where I have a well developed sense of politics. It is his form of posting that has me asking if he is ever wrong. He claims he is. I will see if he proves it. I have a vast experience in economics too. Again he does not agree.

He explains it by saying he is socialist.

I have experienced that. I hate it. Were you where I was, you might also hate it.

Mr. Nygma
06-15-2014, 07:00 PM
I can't tell tone on the Internet and I doubt others can, too. Some humor is lost that way and people leave with wrong impressions. I like to read what people post but I don't get upset if someone doesn't agree with me or think I suck. That's just too much negative energy to carry around.

Mister D
06-15-2014, 07:01 PM
I can't tell tone on the Internet and I doubt others can, too. Some humor is lost that way and people leave with wrong impressions. I like to read what people post but I don't get upset if someone doesn't agree with me or think I suck. That's just too much negative energy to carry around.

Agreed. It has those impediments too. I also agree that it's silly to get upset over a disagreement. Online or off.

Green Arrow
06-15-2014, 07:03 PM
Look coons, you haven't been listening to me downplay the establishment Republicans because you're so hell-bent on going along with others here who want to talk about both parties as if there isn't a bit of difference in their ideologies. All you are doing when you criticize them both-calling them the same is to give more and more fuel to the progressive in getting their destructive agenda across the plate.


I know you think there would be no difference between a Romney presidency and an Obama presidency, but you couldn't be more wrong. The liberal media did a job on Romney by making him look like a liberal lite with the emphasis on Romney care as being the big selling point to the willing and duped low information voting audience. Romney care was a successful state run plan where obamacare is a nationally run government boondoggle. Granted, Romney wasn't the best politician and he didn't run the best campaign, but the point is that he has a totally opposite ideology and agenda then does the progressive Obama.


So the more you keep knocking these so-called rino's and these so-called Republican establishment figures, the more likely we're going to end up with another progressive liberal like a Hillary as president, for you and your ilk and the low/no information voters are always going to choose the real liberal/progressive over a rino every day. You need to stick up and or promote the good team which will be any and all Republicans who decide to run. Even if we Conservatives don't get a true Conservative like a Ted Cruz to represent us in 2016 you still have to vote for the Republican no matter who it is, unless you're happy watching our country further erode under a Hillary presidency. C-mon coons, show some backbone and help the home team win one for the Gipper.

Other than miraculously rising Reagan from the grave, who might you be willing to support (if anyone) from long list of Republicans out there for the presidency in 2016? Even saying you support the Tea Party as a whole or support their agenda would be a start.

Rand Paul.

Mr. Nygma
06-15-2014, 07:05 PM
Here is my thing. I have found a particular poster who enjoys completely disagreeing with me, not one time, not 50 times but all the time. I am of the age where I have a well developed sense of politics. It is his form of posting that has me asking if he is ever wrong. He claims he is. I will see if he proves it. I have a vast experience in economics too. Again he does not agree.

He explains it by saying he is socialist.

I have experienced that. I hate it. Were you where I was, you might also hate it.


Well, maybe he does. I don't know him. It could be that you're both talking at each other instead of to each other. I've noticed that a lot around here. I wouldn't take it too much to heart since the truth is none of us will ever make policy and the world won't change from voting, so all we've done is alienate ourselves from each other by clinging to ideology that won't get enacted anyway, short of a Hand of God experience.

I just kind of live outside the system and do my own thing. I try to build good karma by doing good things and I've noticed that good things come back to me.

Mainecoons
06-15-2014, 07:07 PM
Look coons, you haven't been listening to me downplay the establishment Republicans because you're so hell-bent on going along with others here who want to talk about both parties as if there isn't a bit of difference in their ideologies. All you are doing when you criticize them both-calling them the same is to give more and more fuel to the progressive in getting their destructive agenda across the plate.


I know you think there would be no difference between a Romney presidency and an Obama presidency, but you couldn't be more wrong. The liberal media did a job on Romney by making him look like a liberal lite with the emphasis on Romney care as being the big selling point to the willing and duped low information voting audience. Romney care was a successful state run plan where obamacare is a nationally run government boondoggle. Granted, Romney wasn't the best politician and he didn't run the best campaign, but the point is that he has a totally opposite ideology and agenda then does the progressive Obama.


So the more you keep knocking these so-called rino's and these so-called Republican establishment figures, the more likely we're going to end up with another progressive liberal like a Hillary as president, for you and your ilk and the low/no information voters are always going to choose the real liberal/progressive over a rino every day. You need to stick up and or promote the good team which will be any and all Republicans who decide to run. Even if we Conservatives don't get a true Conservative like a Ted Cruz to represent us in 2016 you still have to vote for the Republican no matter who it is, unless you're happy watching our country further erode under a Hillary presidency. C-mon coons, show some backbone and help the home team win one for the Gipper.

Other than miraculously rising Reagan from the grave, who might you be willing to support (if anyone) from long list of Republicans out there for the presidency in 2016? Even saying you support the Tea Party as a whole or support their agenda would be a start.

Romney was progressivism at a slower pace. Really, Lib, what is the point? May as well vote for the real thing and get the collapse over with.

Lib, I was part of the Republican establishment. I ran political campaigns for them. I gave them high five figure donations. You know what? They just went along with the growth of government, taxation, foreign military misadventurism, and the formation of a gestapo, "Homeland Security."

I was a sucker. No more.

You still are.

Green Arrow
06-15-2014, 07:08 PM
Well, maybe he does. I don't know him. It could be that you're both talking at each other instead of to each other. I've noticed that a lot around here. I wouldn't take it too much to heart since the truth is none of us will ever make policy and the world won't change from voting, so all we've done is alienate ourselves from each other by clinging to ideology that won't get enacted anyway, short of a Hand of God experience.

I just kind of live outside the system and do my own thing. I try to build good karma by doing good things and I've noticed that good things come back to me.

I was neither talking to or at him. I just linked an article that was on topic. *shrug*

Libhater
06-15-2014, 07:23 PM
Romney was progressivism at a slower pace. Really, Lib, what is the point? May as well vote for the real thing and get the collapse over with.

I totally disagree with that. Romney was and is a successful free market entrepreneur. I don't see where he has any progressive agenda.



Lib, I was part of the Republican establishment. I ran political campaigns for them. I gave them high five figure donations. You know what? They just went along with the growth of government, taxation, foreign military misadventurism, and the formation of a gestapo, "Homeland Security."

First of all, I don't see the Homeland Security being this gestapo. There hasn't been one proven incident of where they spied on or tapped individual Americans. So you're throwing in the white towel of surrender on ever having a true Conservative or true Conservatives such as the Tea Partiers holding high political office. So like I said before, you just soon watch the progressives and Hillary run the show from now until America ends up like a third world nation without putting up a fight.


I was a sucker. No more.

You're worse than a sucker...you're a traitor to the Conservative cause.


You still are.

Yup, I'm a sucker who is unwilling to throw the towel in. When the going gets tough--the tough get going. Evidently you never embraced that slogan.

Bob
06-15-2014, 07:27 PM
I think that both Bob's article and Green Arrows article can be correct. How? They contradict each other....

We have evidence from voters that many did vote for Brat because Cantor was seen as a RHINO.

We also see that other voters were just voting against the incumbent and I hope that trend continues nation-wide.
Green Arrow flat stated that it is BOB that is wrong. He made it about me.

I am sure that the Rabbi has truth. And GA added some with his truth, as he calls it.

I am not in VA and saw nothing on the campaign. I had my hands full with CA.

Here is what changed in my view.

See, Cantor was picked by the media to blow away the man that won, Brat.

Why pick Cantor if Brat was about to blow off Cantor's doors.

The public changed is why. It may be message or mood. Without knowing Cantors messages nor Brats, I can only guess.

Cantor has been favorable to aliens becoming legal in the USA.

We recently heard that children from Mexico are being dumped onto the USA in huge numbers. Obama brought this on with his Dreamers program to favor Mexican kids.

Who thought the Mexicans in Mexico did not know this? Mexicans in the USA got on the phone and told them. They know things as fast as we know them.

The Obama free deal to illegal aliens is pleasing to Mexicans. Has Cantor spoke against this? If not and it was part of the message to VA voters in that district, it might account for his loss. I think the Rabbi is onto something. I presume he knows VA politics better than I know them.

VA puzzles me. It backs Democrats one moment but republicans the next. Something is mixed up in that state.

Bob
06-15-2014, 07:29 PM
Brat lives in the area and actually knows people. Cantor was a Washingtonian and people in the area knew that, too, but without a challenge they went with the Republican they knew.

Are you a VA voter?

I asked a pal who lives in VA and he was flat shocked. He expected Cantor to win big.

Bob
06-15-2014, 07:38 PM
Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until next election year for that. As my article showed, incumbents very rarely lose their seats.

I might have heard wrong, but maybe 2 weeks before he lost, Cantor was supposed to win huge.

The question is how did that happen, not what happened decades ago.

Mr. Nygma
06-15-2014, 07:39 PM
First of all, I don't see the Homeland Security being this gestapo. There hasn't been one proven incident of where they spied on or tapped individual Americans.

There are a lot of them. The ACLU spent 6 years going through FOIA information and the results are pretty scary.

Mr. Nygma
06-15-2014, 07:39 PM
Are you a VA voter?

I asked a pal who lives in VA and he was flat shocked. He expected Cantor to win big.

I live in Virginia.

Bob
06-15-2014, 07:40 PM
I was neither talking to or at him. I just linked an article that was on topic. *shrug*

You should not have said Bob in your reply. Next time talk to the topic and not about me.

Green Arrow
06-15-2014, 07:45 PM
You should not have said Bob in your reply. Next time talk to the topic and not about me.

I never said "Bob" in my reply. I didn't even quote your OP.

Bob
06-15-2014, 07:54 PM
You've got to be kidding. Were you on another planet when the borrow and spend Republican Congress was growing the hell out of government from 2000 on? Did you miss the fact that Bush grew government faster than Lyndon Johnson?

Really, Bob, start paying attention.

Those are your FACTS?

Say, tell us all once more how we republicans were in charge of congress?

So soon you forgot Pelosi or the rapid reversals in the Senate when the Ds lost it then won it in a short time?

Bush can't sign a law until it is crafted. Democrats mostly owned the congress.

I took a look at the actual number of Govt workers for decades. It sure does not sound like Bush made up huge government.

Some programs Bush did was to seek the BETTER DEAL voters.

Those are those who don't care what you say, so long as you tell them you give them a BETTER DEAL, they vote for you. Obama suckered voters with his BETTER DEAL ploy and look what he got for it!!!!!

Bob
06-15-2014, 07:56 PM
I never said "Bob" in my reply. I didn't even quote your OP.

Oh, it was My story you said is wrong. Who to you think posted the OP?

Your statement

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/statusicon/user-online.png
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/custom/mod.png
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/custom/vip.png


http://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/progress/green.png


http://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/progress/blue.png


http://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/progress/red.png
Achievements:
http://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/icons/people_dude4_16.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/icons/calendar_newred_3_16.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/icons/atom_16.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/icons/spheres_iridescent_16.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/image.php?u=868&dateline=1400722789 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/members/868-Green-Arrow)tPF ModeratorKarma19511Join DateSep 2013LocationChattanooga, TNPosts12,286Points76,243Level67Thanks Given12,475Thanked 3,861x in 2,884 PostsMentioned513 Post(s)Tagged1 Thread(s)Rep Power208


Story: Your theory on why Cantor lost is wrong (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/eric-cantor-loss-your-theory-is-probably-wrong-107759.html)

Green Arrow
06-15-2014, 07:57 PM
Oh, it was My story you said is wrong. Who to you think posted the OP?

Your statement

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/statusicon/user-online.png
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/custom/mod.png
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/custom/vip.png


http://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/progress/green.png


http://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/progress/blue.png


http://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/progress/red.png
Achievements:
http://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/icons/people_dude4_16.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/icons/calendar_newred_3_16.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/icons/atom_16.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/xperience/icons/spheres_iridescent_16.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.png http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.pnghttp://thepoliticalforums.com/image.php?u=868&dateline=1400722789 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/members/868-Green-Arrow)tPF ModeratorKarma19511Join DateSep 2013LocationChattanooga, TNPosts12,286Points76,243Level67Thanks Given12,475Thanked 3,861x in 2,884 PostsMentioned513 Post(s)Tagged1 Thread(s)Rep Power208


Story: Your theory on why Cantor lost is wrong (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/eric-cantor-loss-your-theory-is-probably-wrong-107759.html)




That was the title of the article I posted, word for word.

Bob
06-15-2014, 08:03 PM
I live in Virginia.

Do you vote in Cantors District?

If so, why was Cantor so far ahead in polls then blown way in the election?

Did the media do it on purpose?

Was it immigration when the kids show up in the USA for the benefits of Dreamers?

Bob
06-15-2014, 08:04 PM
That was the title of the article I posted, word for word.

I apologize

Bob
06-15-2014, 08:13 PM
Romney was progressivism at a slower pace. Really, Lib, what is the point? May as well vote for the real thing and get the collapse over with.

Lib, I was part of the Republican establishment. I ran political campaigns for them. I gave them high five figure donations. You know what? They just went along with the growth of government, taxation, foreign military misadventurism, and the formation of a gestapo, "Homeland Security."

I was a sucker. No more.

You still are.

But now we got progressivism at a higher pace.

Romney simply was no left winger. Romney governed a hard core left wing state. Naturally they won't vote for republicans who don't promise them the better deal.

Romney being a Mormon has those values. They are clear. Love one another.

Had Romney governed in a R state, he would have done the pleasing things.

Santorum came in second and hopes he gets the number 1 slot in 2016.

He too comes from a left wing state.

We need to select a Governor in a R state.

Reagan went at the left and did it the right way.

Bob
06-15-2014, 08:20 PM
Bob, if the Republicans were serious, they'd have a Tea Party Caucus and everyone of them would be in it, because the nearest you get to Conservatism in America is a grassroots Conservative movement. The Republicans look no different from the Democratic millionaires in business suits.

Second reply

i agree with you Refugee.

Let me make a few things clear.

Who backs the Rs in the media?

Really nobody other than tiny market media.

FOX is famous on cable but the actual number paying for FOX simply is far too low to be counted with our 3 major networks. D's win the media battle.

The press it seems is almost gone. Even so, voters now use other than press recommendations, so it matters very little.

What sells is sizzle.

Democrats crafted the art of the promise the voter the best deal starting in the early 30s. Ds ran America for decades. Sure once in a while some R became president. But the Ds were his anchor. I mean holding them back.

Even Nixon today would be called a Rino or left winger because of what did to sell the sizzle.

nathanbforrest45
06-15-2014, 08:37 PM
Instead, they are trying to hurt and defeat the TP.

Establishment Republicans = fellow travelers of Obama and the Democrats

Both are joining forces to maintain power. Both are demonizing the "TEA Party" and painting them as radicals and KKK Right Wingers. Why would the Republicans try to make the TEA Party appear to be no better than the Gestapo?

nathanbforrest45
06-15-2014, 08:45 PM
I live in Virginia.

You have my heart felt condolences

sachem
06-15-2014, 08:49 PM
That reminds me, its about time I changed mine. Which would you go for? Both quality superior products and 'Made in England'. None of your foreign imported Wallmart rubbish here, this is top quality stuff. Her Maj' or me? :laugh:

7940 7941No offense to either you or Liz, but I prefer the one you currently have.

Peter1469
06-15-2014, 08:50 PM
I have lived in lots of states. I like VA.

But I also loved upstate NY. Just no jobs there.

exotix
06-16-2014, 07:20 AM
Instead, they are trying to hurt and defeat the TP.

Establishment Republicans = fellow travelers of Obama and the Democrats
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/timesdaily.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/7f/97fe9f56-f34a-11e3-abbf-001a4bcf6878/539b7c0f581ba.image.jpg

Mr. Nygma
06-16-2014, 08:07 AM
Brat is a pretty much loved professor and lives in a rural area of Virginia. People like him because he talks to them and depicting him as a Hannibal Lecter figure isn't going to win anyone over to the Democrats in that area because people know he's actually really nice.

exotix
06-16-2014, 08:18 AM
Brat is a pretty much loved professor and lives in a rural area of Virginia. People like him because he talks to them and depicting him as a Hannibal Lecter figure isn't going to win anyone over to the Democrats in that area because people know he's actually really nice.
Not according to right-wing conspiracy theorists ... according to them, Dems turned out to vote for Brat because he's easy pick'ns come November.

Mr. Nygma
06-16-2014, 08:19 AM
Not according to right-wing conspiracy theorists ... according to them, Dems turned out to vote for Brat because he's easy pick'ns come November.

Right wing theorists out of state probably do believe that, and I do think that Dems turned out to vote for him for that reason. It doesn't mean that people in the state and in that area don't like him.

Things aren't so black and white as the snobs in NY and Washington want the world to believe.

exotix
06-16-2014, 08:21 AM
Right wing theorists out of state probably do believe that, and I do think that Dems turned out to vote for him for that reason. It doesn't mean that people in the state and in that area don't like him.

Things aren't so black and white as the snobs in NY and Washington want the world to believe.
Why would you think the next House Leader won't be a high-treason tea partier like Cantor ?

Peter1469
06-16-2014, 08:26 AM
Why would you think the next House Leader won't be a high-treason tea partier like Cantor ?

Cantor was a RINO. And the position of House Leader isn't tied to the VA 7th District....

exotix
06-16-2014, 08:34 AM
Cantor was a RINO. And the position of House Leader isn't tied to the VA 7th District....
Every tea partier is a (Bush) neocon ... so this makes no sense.

Peter1469
06-16-2014, 08:37 AM
Every tea partier is a (Bush) neocon ... so this makes no sense.
When you put it that way, I agree. It makes no sense. :wink: